[HN Gopher] Gibraltar, world's only airport runway intersecting ...
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       Gibraltar, world's only airport runway intersecting a road
        
       Author : thunderbong
       Score  : 79 points
       Date   : 2021-07-07 19:11 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.amusingplanet.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.amusingplanet.com)
        
       | duiker101 wrote:
       | I lived next to the runway for about an year. I can actually seem
       | the apartment from some of the photos. It was an interesting
       | place.
       | 
       | It's really just after the border with Spain so if you stay in
       | the country you don't need to cross it every day, but more people
       | work in Gib than live so there is quite a good amount of traffic.
       | 
       | As with most things, you get used to it and it just becomes
       | normal very quickly. The best thing was probably the fact that
       | "I'll pick you up at the airport" is a 5 minutes affair rather
       | than a few hour.
       | 
       | Another interesting sight of Gibraltar is the Sunborn Hotel,
       | which is pretty much ship without motor that acts as
       | hotel/casino.
        
         | axiosgunnar wrote:
         | Was it not super loud?
        
           | philjohn wrote:
           | Not OP but there are only a handful of scheduled flights per
           | day.
           | 
           | I used to fly into there fairly regularly as it was easier to
           | get to my parent's place half an hour up the coast than if I
           | flew to Malaga.
        
           | hopfog wrote:
           | I also used to live in an apartment right next to it (white
           | building with red roof on the left in second picture) and
           | yes, it was loud. The first times it felt like an earthquake
           | but I quickly got used to it and the view was worth it.
        
         | Hallucinaut wrote:
         | Sunborn is relatively affordable too! I believe it claims 5
         | stars, which is overselling it, and the noise from the bars on
         | the landward side isn't great but it's nice all the same
        
       | mortenjorck wrote:
       | Seeing the headline, I thought that can't be right; there are
       | plenty of airport runways built on overpasses over major
       | highways.
       | 
       | The possibility of an _at-grade_ crossing between a public road
       | and an international airport runway was not even in the realm of
       | imagination for me!
        
         | miohtama wrote:
         | It severely limits traffic, both air and land. There will be a
         | tunnel for cars opening later this year. It is another kind of
         | road rage sitting 45 minutes in a car in a queue when some dick
         | decides to land with his private jet.
        
           | adamcstephens wrote:
           | Almost as bad as a different country claim stealing a portion
           | of your country and claiming it as theirs?
        
             | Veen wrote:
             | Spain ceded Gibraltar in the Treaty of Utrecht in 1713. It
             | wasn't stolen. Besides which, Spain isn't exactly innocent
             | when it comes to "stealing a portion of a country and
             | claiming it as theirs".
        
               | adamcstephens wrote:
               | Fair enough, I was wrong so deserve the downvotes.
               | 
               | Very few European countries are innocent when it comes to
               | taking land that wasn't theirs.
        
             | miohtama wrote:
             | Like Ceuta?
        
           | PhantomGremlin wrote:
           | This doesn't seem like that much of a burden to endure.
           | 
           | There are many many places in the USA where vehicular traffic
           | must defer to rail traffic at level crossings. Which can
           | _easily_ occur more often than 30x per week (30 number is
           | from the article).
           | 
           | At some crossings it's not unusual to have a slow moving
           | freight train take 15 minutes or more. How long is the road
           | crossed for each plane? I'd expect 5 or 10 minutes max for a
           | takeoff, I can understand they would want more time for a
           | landing?
        
             | bavariancake wrote:
             | It's Europe, so the burden is the mere awareness that rich
             | people exist who haven't been taxed into oblivion.
        
       | mattlondon wrote:
       | Not only that but there is a huge rock cliff face (aka "The
       | Rock") towering over the runway only perhaps 300m or so (?) to
       | the side of the runway and water at both ends. Quite dramatic
       | approach and landing compared to most airports that are typically
       | in the middle of somewhere really flat.
       | 
       | That said I was mildly disappointed by gib - I thought it would
       | be much more glamorous than it was considering its Mediterranean
       | location and reputation for finance and gambling businesses. It
       | kinda felt like Margate-in-the-med.
        
         | miohtama wrote:
         | Gibraltar is pretty low key wahat comes to showing off money.
         | Marbella, 100 km to Costa del Sol, is the European Miami where
         | you will find Lambos, bodies and parties.
        
       | fireball_blaze wrote:
       | Google Maps link:
       | 
       | https://goo.gl/maps/rr7AYHFqnJCdW9tx7
        
       | m-i-l wrote:
       | The runway of the main airport on the Shetland Islands (Sumburgh
       | Airport[0]) also crosses one of the main roads (A970[1]). Access
       | is controlled by a level crossing with barriers closed whenever a
       | flight is taking off or landing. If you hire a car at the airport
       | you get to drive over the runway (when the barriers are open)
       | which is an unusual experience.
       | 
       | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumburgh_Airport
       | 
       | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A970_road
        
         | londons_explore wrote:
         | I wonder how often someone mistakenly or deliberately turns
         | down the runway...?
         | 
         | It isn't like they can really have a kerb or a fence stopping
         | you...
        
           | Hallucinaut wrote:
           | I would say it's near impossible to do accidentally. And If
           | you did so deliberately it wouldn't be a major safety
           | incident and you could expect some prison time or a large
           | fine.
           | 
           | I've actually driven over this and didn't even remember it as
           | you're so far from the airport buildings at that point.
           | Unlike Gibraltar where it's actually rather busy
           | https://maps.app.goo.gl/disXPcTEh3GMfwAF8
        
       | philjohn wrote:
       | It's also in the top 5 most dangerous airports to land at - lots
       | of sudden crosswinds from the rock.
       | 
       | You also have the fun of the Levante, which is a sea mist that
       | can come in _very_ quickly and hang around for hours. I 've been
       | delayed multiple hours on more than one occasion waiting for it
       | to clear.
        
       | Sniffnoy wrote:
       | Other people have pointed out that there are more of these, but I
       | should note that there's a list of more of these here:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_crossing#Runway_crossing...
       | 
       | It seems to lack the Ometepe and Nauru examples people have
       | mentioned though... but it is Wikipedia, so one can add those. :)
       | 
       | Edit: Although I'm not sure the Nauru example is real...
        
       | macmac wrote:
       | It used to have an overhang with a net at one end. I found that
       | slightly disconcerting.
        
       | yccs27 wrote:
       | A similarly strange runway is located at Barra Airport in
       | scotland: it's made of sand, and tide covers it up twice a day.
       | 
       | Here's a Tom Scott video about it:
       | 
       | https://youtube.com/watch?v=g_2SlqF0kA0
        
       | Ericson2314 wrote:
       | Surely this gem hasn't gone unfilmed in some sort of James Bond
       | type action sequence?
        
         | miohtama wrote:
         | The Living Daylights starts with the Gibraltar scene. Ian
         | Flemmings, the author, was stationed at Gib during WW2.
        
           | Ericson2314 wrote:
           | With the runway?
        
             | AnimalMuppet wrote:
             | I don't recall seeing it. There's a plane, and parachuting
             | from the plane, but I don't recall that you ever see the
             | runway.
        
               | Ericson2314 wrote:
               | It would be a funny twist on the train to get across the
               | train tracks before the train comes trope.
        
         | sunshineforever wrote:
         | Totally almost off subject but if you want some cool Gibraltar
         | movie action check out Das Boot. And I watched Dunkirk right
         | after if you really want to sob about the meaninglessness of
         | war. The ending of Das Boot transitions well into the story of
         | Dunkirk, in my opinion. And the ending of Dunkirk is one of the
         | nobly beautiful things I've seen.
        
       | chris_overseas wrote:
       | The town I grew up in, Gisborne New Zealand, had an airport that
       | had a railway line crossing the runway. Perhaps unsurprisingly
       | the trains had to give way to the planes.
       | 
       | https://www.amusingplanet.com/2013/08/gisborne-airport-runwa...
        
         | MS90 wrote:
         | That's interesting, I would've been concerned about what
         | happens to the tires when a plane taking off/landing hits those
         | tracks, but I guess it isn't an issue.
        
           | dilap wrote:
           | They look small since they're next to big planes, but plane
           | tires are actually quite big, so I'm not surprised they
           | wouldn't have any trouble w/ the tracks.
        
             | MS90 wrote:
             | I was more thinking about smaller GA planes, but it's
             | probably a similar situation. They're designed to slam into
             | the ground with a plane on top of them over and over again,
             | so they're probably more than strong enough.
        
               | laumars wrote:
               | Car tyres don't have any issue (there's plenty of
               | car/rail crossings) so I can't see why a plane's would.
        
         | therein wrote:
         | I find that surprising rather than unsurprising.
         | 
         | After all, a plane can easily do a no-fault turn-around and can
         | observe the train in a collision path from up above while the
         | same cannot be said for a train.
        
           | chris_overseas wrote:
           | Gisborne had a population of about 30,000 at the time with
           | just a handful of flights a day. I'm pretty sure as a pilot I
           | wouldn't want to be looking out for incoming train traffic,
           | especially in difficult weather conditions.
        
           | Someone wrote:
           | That may be sometimes/mostly (can pilots really spot a train
           | in bad weather? is the train even visible from the air and
           | not obscured by trees, buildings, in a tunnel?) true for
           | planes landing, but not for planes taking off.
        
           | olyjohn wrote:
           | In Seattle, we built the light rail down the middle of a main
           | roadway. The train has to stop for red lights to let cars
           | through. It's so backwards, it's ridiculous. Always fun when
           | the train driver notices it late and slams on the brakes.
        
             | WkndTriathlete wrote:
             | Minneapolis built their light rail right down the middle of
             | a main roadway, and the train does have to stop for red
             | lights, but there is no train conductor because the train
             | is wired into the stoplight system and slows
             | down/stops/accelerates appropriately. The lights have also
             | been re-timed to allow for the train. Works pretty well in
             | my experience.
        
             | gumby wrote:
             | Light rail with no separation down main roads exists in a
             | lot of places (including San Francisco) as the right of way
             | is already available.
             | 
             | In Redwood City there's a _freight_ line that runs down the
             | middle of a residential street with zero grade separation
             | or fencing or anything else. You can drive over it if there
             | 's no train on it. Unsurprisingly it's a poor neighborhood.
        
       | will_walker wrote:
       | Placencia Airport in Belize (PLJ) terminates exactly at a road.
       | The short runway takes up the entire width of the isthmus it
       | occupies, so the road takes a dog-leg to pass it. There's a
       | single arm gate on each road to stop traffic during takeoffs and
       | landings.
       | 
       | [0]
       | https://www.google.com/maps/search/placencia+belize+airport/...
        
       | krona wrote:
       | A tunnel is under construction:
       | https://www.reachextra.com/gibraltar-airport-tunnel/
        
       | reillyse wrote:
       | There are plenty of places where the runway is the road
        
       | whymauri wrote:
       | Fort Lauderdale resolved this by running one of the roads over
       | the other.
       | 
       | https://www.enr.com/articles/37614-south-runway-project-lift...
        
         | phaedrus wrote:
         | Out of the two ways you arrange one over the other, I suppose
         | only one makes sense.
        
         | slim wrote:
         | Paris Charles de Gaulle airport has this too. It's fun when
         | you're in the airplane and it crosses the bridge.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Recent and related:
       | 
       |  _On the Rock of Gibraltar_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27756373 - July 2021 (24
       | comments)
        
       | FearlessNebula wrote:
       | > Cars wait patiently as a Jumbo taxies on the runway at the
       | Gibraltar Airport
       | 
       | They're showing a picture of (I think) an A220? In what world is
       | even an A320 a jumbo...
        
         | jaywalk wrote:
         | Pretty sure it's a 757, but that's not a jumbo jet either.
        
           | agurk wrote:
           | That's an A320-200 [0]. Look at the cockpit windows, they're
           | often a good way to tell similar aircraft apart.
           | 
           | It also has two overwing exits, so it can't be an A319
           | (single) or A321 (none).
           | 
           | The engine size gives it away that it's a 200 and not a neo.
           | 
           | BA did operate 757s in their shorthaul fleet but only on busy
           | routes like ARN - LHR, I don't think there would be enough
           | traffic to have justified it on any Gibraltar - UK route.
           | 
           | [0] https://www.britishairways.com/en-de/information/about-
           | ba/fl...
        
             | philjohn wrote:
             | The flights are usually pretty full as there are only a
             | handful a day.
             | 
             | But I've only ever been on an A320 or a 737 when flying
             | there, not sure if a 757 would be able to take off and land
             | safely - it's a pretty short runway.
        
       | heneryville wrote:
       | Ometepe, an island in Nicaragua also has this. There is virtually
       | no traffic control either. You've just got to look both ways...
       | and up, before you drive across it.
       | 
       | [0]
       | https://www.google.com/maps/@11.5238261,-85.7012237,1228m/da...
        
         | andion wrote:
         | I was about to comment exactly this!
         | 
         | I crossed both of them :)
        
       | miohtama wrote:
       | Gibraltar airport is one of the toughest (civilian?) to land.
       | Only Captains are allowed to land. Flights often get diverded to
       | Malaga due to winds.
       | 
       | https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/696566/high-winds-...
        
         | dtparr wrote:
         | The captain-only requirement is an interesting one. While it
         | makes sense that you'd want the more experienced pilot doing
         | the landing, how do you get more captains? I.e. if a First
         | officer can't land there with a more senior pilot ready to
         | advise/supervise/take over, it would mean each person's first
         | time landing there is when there's no one else more experienced
         | to advise.
        
           | zizee wrote:
           | Someone said elsewhere thst it id not a heavily used airport.
           | If there are inly a handful of flights a day I imagine that
           | means there are only a select number of airlines arriving. If
           | you were one of the select few airlines landing here, i could
           | imagine you'd br able to schedule an experienced captain to
           | be with a first timer when landing.
           | 
           | note: i am only speculating, and have no ideas of rules that
           | prohibit two captain level pilots flying at once.
        
           | AnimalMuppet wrote:
           | The first time they might do it under the supervision of a
           | check airman, or at least an experienced captain.
        
       | forinti wrote:
       | Nauru's airport also crosses a road.
       | 
       | https://wikitravel.org/en/Nauru
        
         | Sniffnoy wrote:
         | Does it actually? Looking at pictures and maps, I don't see any
         | crossings between the runway and the road. There's an
         | intersection, but it's not a _crossing_ ; it'd only be useful
         | for a plane going onto or off of the runway, not a car passing
         | through.
        
       | nixass wrote:
       | Zadar Airport in Croatia had the runway intersecting road up
       | until 2010. It is fairly busy airport during summer season. The
       | road was closed as a part of aligning road safety policies during
       | EU negotiations
       | 
       | [1.] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zadar_Airport#History
       | 
       | [2.] https://www.jutarnji.hr/vijesti/hrvatska/zatvorena-cesta-
       | zad...
        
       | DoreenMichele wrote:
       | My understanding is it is legal for planes in Alaska to just land
       | on a road. They have relatively few roads and many places are
       | only accessible via plane, boat or some other alternative to cars
       | (like dog sled) for at least part of the year. They have about
       | six times as many pilots per capita as the rest of the US. Some
       | of their little towns have amazingly minimal airport amenities
       | and crudely constructed landing strips.
       | 
       | I sometimes post articles related to that but there seem to be
       | relatively few good articles on that subject per se. Instead I
       | end up posting articles sort of related, like where a small
       | Alaskan community called everyone to show up with their vehicles
       | to provide impromptu landing lights for a medical evacuation
       | after dark when the lights were not working.
        
         | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
         | Video demonstration of merging into traffic after a gas station
         | pit stop:
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgQIcK881es
        
       | jostmey wrote:
       | I would be seriously worried about something falling off a car
       | that the plane hits during takeoff
        
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