[HN Gopher] Gibraltar, world's only airport runway intersecting ...
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Gibraltar, world's only airport runway intersecting a road
Author : thunderbong
Score : 79 points
Date : 2021-07-07 19:11 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.amusingplanet.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.amusingplanet.com)
| duiker101 wrote:
| I lived next to the runway for about an year. I can actually seem
| the apartment from some of the photos. It was an interesting
| place.
|
| It's really just after the border with Spain so if you stay in
| the country you don't need to cross it every day, but more people
| work in Gib than live so there is quite a good amount of traffic.
|
| As with most things, you get used to it and it just becomes
| normal very quickly. The best thing was probably the fact that
| "I'll pick you up at the airport" is a 5 minutes affair rather
| than a few hour.
|
| Another interesting sight of Gibraltar is the Sunborn Hotel,
| which is pretty much ship without motor that acts as
| hotel/casino.
| axiosgunnar wrote:
| Was it not super loud?
| philjohn wrote:
| Not OP but there are only a handful of scheduled flights per
| day.
|
| I used to fly into there fairly regularly as it was easier to
| get to my parent's place half an hour up the coast than if I
| flew to Malaga.
| hopfog wrote:
| I also used to live in an apartment right next to it (white
| building with red roof on the left in second picture) and
| yes, it was loud. The first times it felt like an earthquake
| but I quickly got used to it and the view was worth it.
| Hallucinaut wrote:
| Sunborn is relatively affordable too! I believe it claims 5
| stars, which is overselling it, and the noise from the bars on
| the landward side isn't great but it's nice all the same
| mortenjorck wrote:
| Seeing the headline, I thought that can't be right; there are
| plenty of airport runways built on overpasses over major
| highways.
|
| The possibility of an _at-grade_ crossing between a public road
| and an international airport runway was not even in the realm of
| imagination for me!
| miohtama wrote:
| It severely limits traffic, both air and land. There will be a
| tunnel for cars opening later this year. It is another kind of
| road rage sitting 45 minutes in a car in a queue when some dick
| decides to land with his private jet.
| adamcstephens wrote:
| Almost as bad as a different country claim stealing a portion
| of your country and claiming it as theirs?
| Veen wrote:
| Spain ceded Gibraltar in the Treaty of Utrecht in 1713. It
| wasn't stolen. Besides which, Spain isn't exactly innocent
| when it comes to "stealing a portion of a country and
| claiming it as theirs".
| adamcstephens wrote:
| Fair enough, I was wrong so deserve the downvotes.
|
| Very few European countries are innocent when it comes to
| taking land that wasn't theirs.
| miohtama wrote:
| Like Ceuta?
| PhantomGremlin wrote:
| This doesn't seem like that much of a burden to endure.
|
| There are many many places in the USA where vehicular traffic
| must defer to rail traffic at level crossings. Which can
| _easily_ occur more often than 30x per week (30 number is
| from the article).
|
| At some crossings it's not unusual to have a slow moving
| freight train take 15 minutes or more. How long is the road
| crossed for each plane? I'd expect 5 or 10 minutes max for a
| takeoff, I can understand they would want more time for a
| landing?
| bavariancake wrote:
| It's Europe, so the burden is the mere awareness that rich
| people exist who haven't been taxed into oblivion.
| mattlondon wrote:
| Not only that but there is a huge rock cliff face (aka "The
| Rock") towering over the runway only perhaps 300m or so (?) to
| the side of the runway and water at both ends. Quite dramatic
| approach and landing compared to most airports that are typically
| in the middle of somewhere really flat.
|
| That said I was mildly disappointed by gib - I thought it would
| be much more glamorous than it was considering its Mediterranean
| location and reputation for finance and gambling businesses. It
| kinda felt like Margate-in-the-med.
| miohtama wrote:
| Gibraltar is pretty low key wahat comes to showing off money.
| Marbella, 100 km to Costa del Sol, is the European Miami where
| you will find Lambos, bodies and parties.
| fireball_blaze wrote:
| Google Maps link:
|
| https://goo.gl/maps/rr7AYHFqnJCdW9tx7
| m-i-l wrote:
| The runway of the main airport on the Shetland Islands (Sumburgh
| Airport[0]) also crosses one of the main roads (A970[1]). Access
| is controlled by a level crossing with barriers closed whenever a
| flight is taking off or landing. If you hire a car at the airport
| you get to drive over the runway (when the barriers are open)
| which is an unusual experience.
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumburgh_Airport
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A970_road
| londons_explore wrote:
| I wonder how often someone mistakenly or deliberately turns
| down the runway...?
|
| It isn't like they can really have a kerb or a fence stopping
| you...
| Hallucinaut wrote:
| I would say it's near impossible to do accidentally. And If
| you did so deliberately it wouldn't be a major safety
| incident and you could expect some prison time or a large
| fine.
|
| I've actually driven over this and didn't even remember it as
| you're so far from the airport buildings at that point.
| Unlike Gibraltar where it's actually rather busy
| https://maps.app.goo.gl/disXPcTEh3GMfwAF8
| philjohn wrote:
| It's also in the top 5 most dangerous airports to land at - lots
| of sudden crosswinds from the rock.
|
| You also have the fun of the Levante, which is a sea mist that
| can come in _very_ quickly and hang around for hours. I 've been
| delayed multiple hours on more than one occasion waiting for it
| to clear.
| Sniffnoy wrote:
| Other people have pointed out that there are more of these, but I
| should note that there's a list of more of these here:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_crossing#Runway_crossing...
|
| It seems to lack the Ometepe and Nauru examples people have
| mentioned though... but it is Wikipedia, so one can add those. :)
|
| Edit: Although I'm not sure the Nauru example is real...
| macmac wrote:
| It used to have an overhang with a net at one end. I found that
| slightly disconcerting.
| yccs27 wrote:
| A similarly strange runway is located at Barra Airport in
| scotland: it's made of sand, and tide covers it up twice a day.
|
| Here's a Tom Scott video about it:
|
| https://youtube.com/watch?v=g_2SlqF0kA0
| Ericson2314 wrote:
| Surely this gem hasn't gone unfilmed in some sort of James Bond
| type action sequence?
| miohtama wrote:
| The Living Daylights starts with the Gibraltar scene. Ian
| Flemmings, the author, was stationed at Gib during WW2.
| Ericson2314 wrote:
| With the runway?
| AnimalMuppet wrote:
| I don't recall seeing it. There's a plane, and parachuting
| from the plane, but I don't recall that you ever see the
| runway.
| Ericson2314 wrote:
| It would be a funny twist on the train to get across the
| train tracks before the train comes trope.
| sunshineforever wrote:
| Totally almost off subject but if you want some cool Gibraltar
| movie action check out Das Boot. And I watched Dunkirk right
| after if you really want to sob about the meaninglessness of
| war. The ending of Das Boot transitions well into the story of
| Dunkirk, in my opinion. And the ending of Dunkirk is one of the
| nobly beautiful things I've seen.
| chris_overseas wrote:
| The town I grew up in, Gisborne New Zealand, had an airport that
| had a railway line crossing the runway. Perhaps unsurprisingly
| the trains had to give way to the planes.
|
| https://www.amusingplanet.com/2013/08/gisborne-airport-runwa...
| MS90 wrote:
| That's interesting, I would've been concerned about what
| happens to the tires when a plane taking off/landing hits those
| tracks, but I guess it isn't an issue.
| dilap wrote:
| They look small since they're next to big planes, but plane
| tires are actually quite big, so I'm not surprised they
| wouldn't have any trouble w/ the tracks.
| MS90 wrote:
| I was more thinking about smaller GA planes, but it's
| probably a similar situation. They're designed to slam into
| the ground with a plane on top of them over and over again,
| so they're probably more than strong enough.
| laumars wrote:
| Car tyres don't have any issue (there's plenty of
| car/rail crossings) so I can't see why a plane's would.
| therein wrote:
| I find that surprising rather than unsurprising.
|
| After all, a plane can easily do a no-fault turn-around and can
| observe the train in a collision path from up above while the
| same cannot be said for a train.
| chris_overseas wrote:
| Gisborne had a population of about 30,000 at the time with
| just a handful of flights a day. I'm pretty sure as a pilot I
| wouldn't want to be looking out for incoming train traffic,
| especially in difficult weather conditions.
| Someone wrote:
| That may be sometimes/mostly (can pilots really spot a train
| in bad weather? is the train even visible from the air and
| not obscured by trees, buildings, in a tunnel?) true for
| planes landing, but not for planes taking off.
| olyjohn wrote:
| In Seattle, we built the light rail down the middle of a main
| roadway. The train has to stop for red lights to let cars
| through. It's so backwards, it's ridiculous. Always fun when
| the train driver notices it late and slams on the brakes.
| WkndTriathlete wrote:
| Minneapolis built their light rail right down the middle of
| a main roadway, and the train does have to stop for red
| lights, but there is no train conductor because the train
| is wired into the stoplight system and slows
| down/stops/accelerates appropriately. The lights have also
| been re-timed to allow for the train. Works pretty well in
| my experience.
| gumby wrote:
| Light rail with no separation down main roads exists in a
| lot of places (including San Francisco) as the right of way
| is already available.
|
| In Redwood City there's a _freight_ line that runs down the
| middle of a residential street with zero grade separation
| or fencing or anything else. You can drive over it if there
| 's no train on it. Unsurprisingly it's a poor neighborhood.
| will_walker wrote:
| Placencia Airport in Belize (PLJ) terminates exactly at a road.
| The short runway takes up the entire width of the isthmus it
| occupies, so the road takes a dog-leg to pass it. There's a
| single arm gate on each road to stop traffic during takeoffs and
| landings.
|
| [0]
| https://www.google.com/maps/search/placencia+belize+airport/...
| krona wrote:
| A tunnel is under construction:
| https://www.reachextra.com/gibraltar-airport-tunnel/
| reillyse wrote:
| There are plenty of places where the runway is the road
| whymauri wrote:
| Fort Lauderdale resolved this by running one of the roads over
| the other.
|
| https://www.enr.com/articles/37614-south-runway-project-lift...
| phaedrus wrote:
| Out of the two ways you arrange one over the other, I suppose
| only one makes sense.
| slim wrote:
| Paris Charles de Gaulle airport has this too. It's fun when
| you're in the airplane and it crosses the bridge.
| dang wrote:
| Recent and related:
|
| _On the Rock of Gibraltar_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27756373 - July 2021 (24
| comments)
| FearlessNebula wrote:
| > Cars wait patiently as a Jumbo taxies on the runway at the
| Gibraltar Airport
|
| They're showing a picture of (I think) an A220? In what world is
| even an A320 a jumbo...
| jaywalk wrote:
| Pretty sure it's a 757, but that's not a jumbo jet either.
| agurk wrote:
| That's an A320-200 [0]. Look at the cockpit windows, they're
| often a good way to tell similar aircraft apart.
|
| It also has two overwing exits, so it can't be an A319
| (single) or A321 (none).
|
| The engine size gives it away that it's a 200 and not a neo.
|
| BA did operate 757s in their shorthaul fleet but only on busy
| routes like ARN - LHR, I don't think there would be enough
| traffic to have justified it on any Gibraltar - UK route.
|
| [0] https://www.britishairways.com/en-de/information/about-
| ba/fl...
| philjohn wrote:
| The flights are usually pretty full as there are only a
| handful a day.
|
| But I've only ever been on an A320 or a 737 when flying
| there, not sure if a 757 would be able to take off and land
| safely - it's a pretty short runway.
| heneryville wrote:
| Ometepe, an island in Nicaragua also has this. There is virtually
| no traffic control either. You've just got to look both ways...
| and up, before you drive across it.
|
| [0]
| https://www.google.com/maps/@11.5238261,-85.7012237,1228m/da...
| andion wrote:
| I was about to comment exactly this!
|
| I crossed both of them :)
| miohtama wrote:
| Gibraltar airport is one of the toughest (civilian?) to land.
| Only Captains are allowed to land. Flights often get diverded to
| Malaga due to winds.
|
| https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/696566/high-winds-...
| dtparr wrote:
| The captain-only requirement is an interesting one. While it
| makes sense that you'd want the more experienced pilot doing
| the landing, how do you get more captains? I.e. if a First
| officer can't land there with a more senior pilot ready to
| advise/supervise/take over, it would mean each person's first
| time landing there is when there's no one else more experienced
| to advise.
| zizee wrote:
| Someone said elsewhere thst it id not a heavily used airport.
| If there are inly a handful of flights a day I imagine that
| means there are only a select number of airlines arriving. If
| you were one of the select few airlines landing here, i could
| imagine you'd br able to schedule an experienced captain to
| be with a first timer when landing.
|
| note: i am only speculating, and have no ideas of rules that
| prohibit two captain level pilots flying at once.
| AnimalMuppet wrote:
| The first time they might do it under the supervision of a
| check airman, or at least an experienced captain.
| forinti wrote:
| Nauru's airport also crosses a road.
|
| https://wikitravel.org/en/Nauru
| Sniffnoy wrote:
| Does it actually? Looking at pictures and maps, I don't see any
| crossings between the runway and the road. There's an
| intersection, but it's not a _crossing_ ; it'd only be useful
| for a plane going onto or off of the runway, not a car passing
| through.
| nixass wrote:
| Zadar Airport in Croatia had the runway intersecting road up
| until 2010. It is fairly busy airport during summer season. The
| road was closed as a part of aligning road safety policies during
| EU negotiations
|
| [1.] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zadar_Airport#History
|
| [2.] https://www.jutarnji.hr/vijesti/hrvatska/zatvorena-cesta-
| zad...
| DoreenMichele wrote:
| My understanding is it is legal for planes in Alaska to just land
| on a road. They have relatively few roads and many places are
| only accessible via plane, boat or some other alternative to cars
| (like dog sled) for at least part of the year. They have about
| six times as many pilots per capita as the rest of the US. Some
| of their little towns have amazingly minimal airport amenities
| and crudely constructed landing strips.
|
| I sometimes post articles related to that but there seem to be
| relatively few good articles on that subject per se. Instead I
| end up posting articles sort of related, like where a small
| Alaskan community called everyone to show up with their vehicles
| to provide impromptu landing lights for a medical evacuation
| after dark when the lights were not working.
| kevin_thibedeau wrote:
| Video demonstration of merging into traffic after a gas station
| pit stop:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgQIcK881es
| jostmey wrote:
| I would be seriously worried about something falling off a car
| that the plane hits during takeoff
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