[HN Gopher] I might have gone a little bit overboard
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       I might have gone a little bit overboard
        
       Author : saimiam
       Score  : 209 points
       Date   : 2021-07-05 15:18 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (dirtydatagirl.moogle.cc)
 (TXT) w3m dump (dirtydatagirl.moogle.cc)
        
       | lifeisstillgood wrote:
       | I think I like her.
       | 
       | https://www.willowfinch.com/ seems to be the start-up that this
       | article founded (or is the story of how she got there)
       | 
       | It seems to be a fairly sensible idea - cost-of-living is not
       | just how much a house in Rural "Southern State" costs but varies
       | based on house price + Other State laws and Taxes + mostly
       | healthcare stuff non_US folks dont understand + othr variables
       | based on your stage of life (young and single vs young family
       | etc.)
       | 
       | So her startup helps people find best part of the country to live
       | in based on all those variables.
       | 
       | Which sounds awesome, if only most people did not base their
       | location on a job.
       | 
       | Which after COVID means this is a really good time to start that
       | start up.
        
         | dominotw wrote:
         | how do i use this website. Don't see any signup button.
        
           | jonnydubowsky wrote:
           | I couldn't figure it out either. If anyone has successfully
           | used the Willowfinch.com site, how do you get started?
        
         | lotsofpulp wrote:
         | >Which sounds awesome, if only most people did not base their
         | location on a job.
         | 
         | I would say family/friends even takes priority, as many people
         | give up economic/political benefits of moving elsewhere to stay
         | closer to their network.
        
         | PragmaticPulp wrote:
         | A tool that compares cost of living in high resolution could be
         | useful for comparing relocation options.
         | 
         | However, I have my doubts that many retirees are interested in
         | evaluating retirement destinations solely on cost of living
         | requirements. Nearly everyone wants to retire to some place
         | they enjoy which is close to their friends and family. Moving
         | across the country to save a few hundred dollars per month
         | isn't helpful if you spend thousands of dollars more every year
         | on plane tickets to travel back to see friends and family.
        
           | burnished wrote:
           | Could be useful for a group of people, say a family, to help
           | decide where they should settle down.
        
           | aidenn0 wrote:
           | Look at the costs at borders between states. If you have
           | family in Danville, IL, you might want to retire in Attica,
           | IN
        
         | EdwardDiego wrote:
         | As a non-US folk I definitely don't understand that health
         | insurance variance.
         | 
         | Presumably, as she mentioned ACA, you're getting the same level
         | of service, so how can it vary by state? I thought ACA was
         | federal level?
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | ACA is at the federal level, but it allows pricing healthcare
           | based on 3 things: location, age, and smoking status.
           | 
           | And up until ACA, all health "insurance" was administered
           | state by state, with various additional state laws and
           | compliance with state insurance regulators, so instead of
           | dismantling all that, it was mostly left alone as long as it
           | complied with the ACA minimums.
           | 
           | Healthcare providers charge very different amounts in very
           | different places, due to reasons such as doctors wanting more
           | money for having to live in less desirable areas, so it makes
           | sense that it would cost more or less in different places.
           | 
           | Also, the "risk pool" is restricted to each state due to
           | aforementioned system of regulating insurance state by state,
           | so states with smaller populations have less lives to spread
           | the healthcare costs around. This means that healthcare costs
           | in smaller states could be lower, if everyone is healthier,
           | but more likely is something like the case of Iowa where a
           | single anemic patient caused an insurer to back out of the
           | state since their healthcare costs were so high it was not
           | profitable to operate in the state (until the Iowa
           | government, i.e. rest of Iowa taxpayers, stepped in to help.)
           | 
           | Some of this is also due to political compromises during ACA
           | passage that continued to allow employers to silo their
           | employees' into their own risk pools via employer sponsored
           | health insurance, and a lot of these are the healthier lives
           | that would help shoulder the healthcare costs of the "general
           | public".
        
             | senortumnus wrote:
             | Look up the share of health care spending that goes to
             | doctors. It's maybe 6-10% of overall costs. (Often reported
             | as share that goes to "doctors and clinics" ~20% which
             | includes salaries of nurses & other workers, etc) Biggest
             | share goes to hospitals.
        
               | PragmaticPulp wrote:
               | Everyone else involved has similar cost of living
               | requirements.
               | 
               | Even the cost of buildings and supplies varies with
               | location.
               | 
               | Doctors were just an example.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | That was just one easy example that came to mind, since
               | there is specifically a federal program that exists to
               | get doctors to go where they do not want to be.
               | Obviously, nurses/janitors/hospital management will want
               | more/less to live in certain areas, and maybe that is
               | offset by lower land costs, utility costs, legal costs
               | depending on state's laws and courts, and there is a
               | whole host of factors that can cause differences between
               | two places.
        
           | bufferoverflow wrote:
           | Different laws, different levels of health problems.
        
           | machinerychorus wrote:
           | ACA is a federal level law that does several different
           | things. As I understand it, the main points were increased
           | insurance regulation, the individual mandate, and an option
           | for states to expand medicaid [0]. I'm not sure why there is
           | so much state-to-state variance, but afaik the aca wouldn't
           | prevent that.
           | 
           | [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affordable_Care_Act
        
             | lotsofpulp wrote:
             | The main point of ACA was removing the ability for managed
             | care organizations (MCOs, or health insurers) to refuse or
             | price one's premiums based on the probabilities of their
             | future healthcare costs. This is why I prefer the term MCO,
             | as they are no longer selling just insurance, so the term
             | insurer does not seem apt.
             | 
             | ACA introduced rules that effectively make health insurance
             | premiums a tax, where the young and healthy pay for the old
             | and sick (like taxpayer funded healthcare). It did so in a
             | few ways:
             | 
             | 1) force MCOs to provide insurance to everyone, by removing
             | pre existing conditions as a criteria for pricing insurance
             | (effectively causing healthy people to subsidize sick
             | people)
             | 
             | 2) force everyone to buy insurance (although this got
             | neutered, both by removing individual penalty and allowing
             | employer sponsored plans to continue to exist)
             | 
             | 3) pricing is only based on age, location, smoking status
             | 
             | 4) pricing is such that highest premium can only be 3x the
             | premium of ages 21 to 24, effectively causing young people
             | to subsidize old people
             | 
             | 5) out of pocket maximums for in network providers - this
             | leaves in the true insurance part of the business in that
             | you will not have to pay over a certain amount in a
             | calendar year.
             | 
             | https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/out-of-pocket-maximum-
             | li...
             | 
             | >I'm not sure why there is so much state-to-state variance,
             | but afaik the aca wouldn't prevent that.
             | 
             | Because insurance regulation is still at the state level,
             | and MCOs were allowed to use location as a factor in
             | calculating premiums, so different places in the US have
             | different healthcare costs due to factors such as wages,
             | land costs, liability costs. Although this mostly exists on
             | the state level, I do not think it gets more granular than
             | that.
        
             | sidlls wrote:
             | The main thing ACA does is help shift even more money from
             | people to health insurance companies. Any other benefits
             | are ancillary or completely accidental.
        
           | EricE wrote:
           | 1. The US is huge. Good example that blew my mind:
           | https://www.txmemes.com/post/texas-is-larger-than-any-
           | europe...
           | 
           | 2. Economic variables can vary significantly between regions
           | 3. There are artificial barriers that significantly distort
           | the market for health care - the most egregious being
           | prohibitions on insurance across state lines that create
           | artificial silos. The overhead of insurance companies and
           | people using insurance for all health care instead of just
           | providing coverage for catastrophic needs inflicts bloat and
           | overhead on even the most mundane of transactions. I've
           | switched to a high deductible plan with a health savings
           | account that lets me pay for my health care tax free so I
           | negotiate with cash for the vast majority of my health care
           | needs and let me tell you - the difference vs. going through
           | insurance is eye opening. On top of that I no longer have to
           | look for providers who are in network - I can pick whoever I
           | want for whatever reason I want. Yup, it takes a bit more
           | effort - but it's my freaking health. There are few things
           | more important or worth dedicating effort to.
        
         | ryandrake wrote:
         | It looks interesting, but how do you actually get into and use
         | the tool? The home page has lots of words describing it and a
         | video, but I could find no links to the actual tool.
        
       | jefftk wrote:
       | There's a lot going on in this post, and it's not the most
       | structured, but the graph of healthcare costs by county at age 59
       | was fascinating:
       | https://s3.amazonaws.com/mx.sairamachandr.in/moogle.cc/blogp...
       | 
       | ("This map of the 2018 2nd Cheapest Silver ACA plans shows the
       | variance against the cost for 2 people, aged 59, with King
       | County, Washington as the base. The olive green color is zero-ish
       | variance. The darker the green, the cheaper the health insurance
       | is in that county. The darker the red, the more expensive that
       | county is compared to King County, Washington.")
        
         | mumblemumble wrote:
         | I'm having a hard time interpreting that because I don't know
         | enough about the Affordable Care Act. Is this making an apples-
         | to-apples comparison? Are Silver ACA plans roughly comparable
         | in terms of quality of coverage?
         | 
         | One anecdotal experience in this area for me is that my
         | employer recently switched health insurance companies on us. On
         | paper, the new plan is equivalent to the old plan, but
         | appreciably less expensive. In reality, I would _gladly_ pay
         | even more than the old plan cost, just to go back to it. And
         | probably save money (certainly be able to hold onto my hair
         | color a bit longer) in the process.
        
           | burnished wrote:
           | Can you qualify why specifically you would prefer the old
           | plan even though it is 'on paper' the same?
        
             | mumblemumble wrote:
             | What lotsofpulp and Judgmentality describe pretty much
             | covers it.
        
             | Judgmentality wrote:
             | Not OP, but switching providers could mean one actually
             | provides coverage and the other regularly denies it. I have
             | upgraded health plans in the past, only to discover I spent
             | more time fighting my insurance company because they just
             | refused to honor the coverage. I actually had to get a
             | lawyer involved at my own expense.
             | 
             | I find it bizarre how many people just trust that insurance
             | companies will actually honor their contracts. In my
             | experience, they likely won't. This is just my anecdote.
        
               | shoemakersteve wrote:
               | As a non-American, that sounds pretty fucked.
        
               | sdenton4 wrote:
               | The American healthcare system is quite fucked.
               | Proponents are typically profiting from it directly, have
               | no idea what things are like in other places, or
               | suffering Stockholm syndrome (and lack access to medical
               | care to treat it).
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | It is not as bad as it sounds. There is an appeals
               | process:
               | 
               | https://www.healthcare.gov/appeal-insurance-company-
               | decision...
               | 
               | And in general, anything the insurance company might not
               | want to pay for required a "prior authorization", which
               | usually happens if the insurance company's doctors think
               | there is another option for treatment or the proposed
               | option does not have sufficient evidence.
               | 
               | I imagine there is similar processes in taxpayer funded
               | healthcare systems too to properly allocate resources.
               | Although, I am sure there are many cases of problems
               | caused by insurance companies in the US, due to the
               | bureaucracy.
        
               | ThePowerOfFuet wrote:
               | It really is as bad as it sounds.
               | 
               | >I imagine there is similar processes in taxpayer funded
               | healthcare systems too to properly allocate resources.
               | 
               | What the doctor orders is what you get. You can typically
               | choose your doctor, as well as get a second opinion. The
               | doctors are generally paid the same.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | These are some pharmacists talking about prior
               | authorizations for medicine, and they seem to exist in
               | Canada, UK, AUS, and NZ.
               | 
               | https://www.reddit.com/r/pharmacy/comments/oekhrp/curious
               | _ab...
               | 
               | I would be surprised if any country gave doctors blank
               | checks for everything since no one has unlimited
               | resources. There most likely is a system for figuring out
               | where waste is happening and avoiding it.
        
           | canadianfella wrote:
           | > On paper, the new plan is equivalent to the old plan, but
           | appreciably less expensive. In reality, I would gladly pay
           | even more than the old plan cost, just to go back to it. And
           | probably save money (certainly be able to hold onto my hair
           | color a bit longer) in the process.
           | 
           | I don't understand what you are saying here.
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | Yes, the same metal level plans are comparable since the
           | coverage all health insurance has to provide is the same in
           | the US (excluding the weird church plan loophole but they are
           | not actually insurance and no one uses them)
           | 
           | https://www.healthcare.gov/choose-a-plan/plans-categories/
           | 
           | What will change is the network of healthcare providers that
           | are in network for you. This is how I think price
           | discrimination will work in healthcare in the US going
           | forward.
           | 
           | A more expensive silver health insurance will have more
           | doctors in network since it will reimburse at a higher price
           | (from your or your employer's higher premiums). A less
           | expensive silver health insurance will have fewer doctors in
           | network, since fewer doctors will accept that price. Or it
           | will have overworked doctors, or you will have to see nurse
           | practitioners or physician's assistance instead of MDs.
           | 
           | If you find your employer's in network doctors worse, then it
           | is basically a stealth pay cut from one perspective.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | rob74 wrote:
         | "it's not the most structured" is an understatement - to me it
         | feels like some kind of "stream of thought" writing, where
         | someone just writes down everything that comes into their mind.
         | The result of that is comprehensible to the person who wrote
         | it, but really hard to follow for anyone else. So, if she
         | really wants to promote the service she built based on this,
         | the article could use some editing...
        
           | sundvor wrote:
           | I found it interesting to follow the thought process, and
           | enjoyed the read myself.
           | 
           | It struck me that energy costs (which involves location etc)
           | weren't included, but perhaps that's in the final service?
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | dgb23 wrote:
       | If the author is reading this:
       | 
       | The first (oldest) post on the blog index is still a Moogle
       | tutorial/example post. I suggest to delete/unpublish it.
        
       | causality0 wrote:
       | Is there like another section to this writeup? Because the
       | priorities seemed quite strange and incomplete to me.
       | 
       |  _And were there any "Blue Dots" in the sea of red around where
       | she lives?_
       | 
       | I can't figure out what her aim is with this. Is the proposition
       | that she'll have an easier time making friends in a city that's
       | 60% Democrat as opposed to 40%? Same thing with the dry county
       | issue. Is an extra five minutes in the car to the next county
       | over even noticeable?
       | 
       | So many more significant things are ignored. Does she like the
       | weather in these places? Do she or her husband have significant
       | allergies to the sources of pollen native to the properties?
        
         | vehemenz wrote:
         | It depends on the state, but a pocket of blue in rural/exurban
         | areas often indicates lower crime, better public services, etc.
         | --more educated people and the accompanying externalities.
         | Driving to the next county over doesn't solve the problem of
         | bad neighbors.
        
           | liveoneggs wrote:
           | the article highlights Clarke Country, home of Athens, home
           | of UGA (a massive college town)
        
           | llampx wrote:
           | Democrat counties have lower crime rates? Doesn't follow from
           | Democrat cities like NYC and Chicago.
        
             | rblatz wrote:
             | Seems like you missed the qualifier of rural/exurban which
             | immediately excludes NYC and Chicago.
        
             | jbeam wrote:
             | NYC in 2021 is very different from NYC in the 1980s.
        
           | alisonkisk wrote:
           | And it often means the opposite, so it's useless data in
           | summary.
        
         | pavel_lishin wrote:
         | > _Same thing with the dry county issue. Is an extra five
         | minutes in the car to the next county over even noticeable?_
         | 
         | It might be if the next county over has noticeably better roads
         | because of the extra taxes due to alcohol sales.
        
         | mschuster91 wrote:
         | > Is the proposition that she'll have an easier time making
         | friends in a city that's 60% Democrat as opposed to 40%?
         | 
         | In rural areas that distinction actually matters.
         | 
         | > Same thing with the dry county issue. Is an extra five
         | minutes in the car to the next county over even noticeable?
         | 
         | When your county is wet, you don't need a car to get to the
         | nearest pub or can hail an Uber for cheap to get home.
        
           | skywhopper wrote:
           | Uber doesn't operate in the vast majority of the country,
           | even in small cities (although there's usually _some_ variety
           | of taxi service, but usually not as easy to use or as
           | comfortable). You may also be overestimating the availability
           | of "pubs" even in "wet" counties in places like Kentucky.
        
             | alisonkisk wrote:
             | People just drive drunk in Uberness areas. Low population
             | density means low enforcement.
        
           | bsagdiyev wrote:
           | That wet/dry distinction might not be as big of a deal as you
           | make it still depending on county size. North Carolina has
           | 100(!!) counties, with only one dry still, at that size and
           | with the typical spread between places you easily pass
           | through a couple of counties daily just doing normal day-to-
           | day stuff. For example, I live in Wake County but my grocery
           | store is in Harnett County and my Best Buy is in Johnston
           | County, all still within a 20 minute drive.
        
             | rsynnott wrote:
             | I mean, I would imagine that many people might like to be
             | able to walk to a pub (_driving_ to one doesn't seem like a
             | great idea...) If alcohol sales are verboten in the county,
             | this seems problematic.
        
               | bsagdiyev wrote:
               | Where in the US do you live that a bar would be walking
               | distance and also next to a dry county? All urban areas
               | like that threw out those sorts of laws decades ago.
               | Rural areas are typically where dry counties are found,
               | but not always, but walking to a bar in the US is
               | typically reserved for more built up areas (but once
               | again not always)
        
               | rsynnott wrote:
               | I don't live in the US. Where I live, though, even in
               | many rural areas walking into the local village would be
               | feasible. There'd be _very_ rural places where you
               | couldn't walk to anything, but they'd be the exception.
        
               | datameta wrote:
               | As an urbanite I was looked upon like a madman when I
               | walked 30 minutes to the store from my academic campus
               | which was hugged by a nature reserve on one side and a
               | major highway on the other. Not having a car is a real
               | hassle in the majority of the non-urban areas of this
               | country. The only other people who thought to ever do
               | something similar were international students from
               | Bulgaria and Nepal that didn't blink twice at it.
        
               | ricardobeat wrote:
               | In most of European cities a 30 minute walk gets you over
               | to the next town, not the nearest pub :)
        
               | TheGigaChad wrote:
               | From where did you pull this one out? Your ass?
        
               | datameta wrote:
               | In NYC 30 minutes later you're maybe one or two
               | neighborhoods down ;)
        
           | Causality1 wrote:
           | Matters how? I've lived in both Left and Right-leaning towns
           | over the past five years and didn't notice a difference. I
           | don't have children, is it something that would only matter
           | to a parent?
        
         | baryphonic wrote:
         | > Do she or her husband have significant allergies to the
         | sources of pollen native to the properties?
         | 
         | Seems she has allergies to the Republican neighbors native to
         | the properties.
        
           | kcmastrpc wrote:
           | I mean, who doesn't want to live in wealthy, low-crime areas?
        
             | liveoneggs wrote:
             | you might not have a super accurate view of rural georgia
             | surrounding the UGA Athens area
        
             | colinmhayes wrote:
             | Me. Those areas are boring and soulless.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | [deleted]
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | Aeolun wrote:
       | I think the most important observation of this article is that
       | health insurance trumps literally all other costs.
       | 
       | How do people even live with health insurance that costs $2000
       | per month?
        
         | war1025 wrote:
         | I calculated last year that for my family of 5, our health
         | insurance premiums (when you include the portion my employer
         | pays) equaled almost to the dollar the amount we spent on every
         | other thing last year.
         | 
         | Granted we are pretty frugal, but health insurance is insane.
        
         | WYepQ4dNnG wrote:
         | Well, that's why you need at least $1M (stressing at least) to
         | retire in US. That's insane!
        
           | 1123581321 wrote:
           | You only need that if you want to live beyond what Social
           | Security and public assistance provide.
        
             | lotsofpulp wrote:
             | The purchasing power of social security benefits has been
             | going down for many, many years. I predict it will continue
             | to go down and become more means tested as the proportion
             | of working to not working population goes down.
             | 
             | I assume social security will just be a nice bonus if I get
             | it in the 2050s.
        
               | 1123581321 wrote:
               | Social Security payouts have been adjusted upward for
               | inflation almost every year since 1975. You can see the
               | data here: https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/colaseries.html
               | 
               | There are no plans to discontinue this practice. Many
               | people believe SS will not be meaningfully available to
               | them at retirement decades from now, which is
               | understandable skepticism, but is not a reflection on how
               | retirement is intended to work in the US.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | Those inflation statistics have no bearing on my
               | experienced expenditures over the course of my life and
               | where I intend to spend money in the future.
               | 
               | If I took all my expenses over my adult life of 15 years
               | and calculated the price change between 15 years ago and
               | when I purchased them, the total increase in prices
               | eclipses the official nationwide statistics.
               | 
               | So I assume healthcare costs will continue at above
               | official inflation (especially as the proportion of young
               | to old people decreases, which means less supply of labor
               | in the face of increasing demand). And similar movements
               | in the land and other labor I would be interested in.
               | 
               | Also, social security retirement age was 65, and it was
               | updated to 67 for those born in 1960 or later. It would
               | be prudent to expect more increases in future years. I
               | can easily see 70 being the new age at which you get
               | "full" social security benefits.
               | 
               | > but is not a reflection on how retirement is intended
               | to work in the US.
               | 
               | It does not matter what the intentions are. At the end of
               | the day, it is productivity from the younger groups that
               | allows for the benefits to be realized by older groups.
               | As the younger group gets fewer and fewer, and the older
               | group gets bigger and bigger, the supply of productivity
               | from the younger groups decreases and the demand for it
               | increases.
               | 
               | The only way that works out is if fewer people actually
               | get to realize those benefits, which means you want to be
               | able to pay for it (with cash and/or political power).
        
               | 1123581321 wrote:
               | In the scenario that spawned this thread, much of the
               | healthcare inflation costs are borne by a state's public
               | health option. In some states, all or a portion of
               | housing is as well.
               | 
               | Again, I totally understand the skepticism about the
               | long-term viability of social security. I also foresee
               | retirement age adjustments up (they make some sense since
               | people are living and working longer) and I also think
               | that the income limitation on Social Security and
               | Medicare tax will be increased in our lifetimes without
               | offering proportional additional benefits to those paying
               | to deal with the insufficient size in the working
               | populations.
               | 
               | However, the original misconception that started this
               | thread was that a million in cash is required to retire
               | in the US, and it's simply not, and it's not the
               | intention of US policy to make that situation come about.
               | It may inadvertently happen due to economic stress, but
               | the same can be said about any western country's
               | expensive public welfare programs.
        
         | lotsofpulp wrote:
         | I would venture most people in the US simply do not (or forgo)
         | adequately saving or investing for the future, especially for
         | their years after age 50.
         | 
         | There are quite a bit of subsidies available though if you're
         | in the bottom ~5 income deciles:
         | 
         | https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/subsidized-coverage/
         | 
         | I think you get screwed roughly in the 6th to 8th income decile
         | range, where you are not rich enough to be able to weather a
         | calamity, but you are also earning too much to get assistance.
         | A lot of people fall back down to the bottom deciles trying to
         | move up to the top deciles if/when something goes wrong, but
         | life is pretty nice for those that do make it.
        
         | bingidingi wrote:
         | the monthly premium isn't even the worst part, deductibles keep
         | getting higher and it's not uncommon to be surprised with a
         | bill for services that weren't covered by your plan (and it's
         | very difficult to ensure you're 100% covered before receiving
         | services, and nearly impossible in an emergency)
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | This should help on the out of network emergency billing
           | front:
           | 
           | https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2021/07/01/hhs-announces-
           | rule...
        
             | bingidingi wrote:
             | it is promising, but note that it doesn't apply to
             | ambulances - so we'll still be ubering to the er
        
       | throwaway984393 wrote:
       | Where is the magical insurance per month graphic? It looks like
       | it's been replaced by an alcohol map of Kentucky?
        
         | _puk wrote:
         | I got caught by that one.
         | 
         | Looks like the two graphics are in the wrong order. The
         | "magical insurance" graphic is the one prior to the alcohol
         | map.
        
           | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
           | Doesn't improve my first impression of the writing.
        
       | mschuster91 wrote:
       | As an European, _so much_ of what has been described here is
       | mind-boggling at best. WTF why does America have different sales
       | taxes between _counties_? Why are  "dry counties" even a thing?
       | And why do healthcare costs differ so wildly?
       | 
       | As a comparison, here in Germany it's one federal level of sales
       | tax (19% and 7% for food and a couple other exempted items), one
       | federal level of healthcare costs (7.3% of gross wage, plus .5-2%
       | of surcharge depending on insurance company), and legal
       | drinking/smoking age is federal 16 (beer/wine)/18 (tobacco, other
       | alcohols), and you can buy alcohol and tobacco products
       | everywhere.
        
         | blamestross wrote:
         | One thing Europeans often don't consider is that the population
         | and size of a European country is about on par with a bigger US
         | state and that US states have a lot of legal independence. So
         | the variation is a bit less crazy than it sounds.
        
           | reallydontask wrote:
           | Not sure this is a good explanation as, for instance, the
           | concept of a dry county/municipality is alien to most
           | europeans.
           | 
           | Similar with healthcare where it's by and large provided by
           | the state.
           | 
           | Obviously speaking from my experience which is limited to the
           | bigger countries in europe
        
             | nszceta wrote:
             | Many original settlers including the pilgrims were
             | religious extremists that the Europeans were all too happy
             | to get rid of.
             | 
             | https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel01.html
        
             | EricE wrote:
             | I've lived in dozens of locations across the country and
             | never lived in a dry county, and only occasionally
             | encountered it in my travels. The amount of the population
             | they affect is minuscule, despite the impressive looking
             | charts - many of those counties are pretty low population.
             | And as others pointed out pretty easy to work around. Even
             | crazier than dry counties was South Carolina's mini-bottle
             | laws. If you want something truly mind blowing do a quick
             | search on that madness.
             | 
             | As for our healthcare - I'll keep our system, warts and
             | all. Not saying it can't be improved but at least I know
             | when I need care I will be able to get it in my (literal!)
             | lifetime. And if I'm sufficiently motivated I can get the
             | best care available. I'll take that over any least common
             | denominator one-size-fits-all model any day. Maybe your
             | politicians are just better at running government programs
             | - ours aren't. They are stupid bad at it. All I have to do
             | is look at how well the free government provided health
             | care is for our military veterans and know I don't want
             | _our_ government anywhere near my healthcare, thank you
             | very much.
        
         | lotsofpulp wrote:
         | >And why do healthcare costs differ so wildly?
         | 
         | Healthcare costs vary because labor, land, utility, legal, and
         | other costs vary by location (especially legal as that is
         | subject to many states' laws and judicial systems).
         | 
         | Health insurance premiums vary because the risk pools for the
         | insurance that individuals can buy via healthcare.gov are
         | separated for each state. There is the federal law, ACA, but on
         | certain states have more rules that distribute the healthcare
         | costs even more to young/healthy people. See this page for some
         | examples:
         | 
         | https://www.valuepenguin.com/how-age-affects-health-insuranc...
         | 
         | And in general, the administration and regulation of insurance
         | pricing is on a state level too, so there might simply be
         | variance due to that.
        
         | xyzzyz wrote:
         | The original political system of the US, before it was
         | significantly changed in early-to-mid 20th century, was pretty
         | similar to the current political system of Europe, where the
         | role of US Federal Government was similar to current role of
         | European Union, and the individual US states were like
         | individual European states. In this view, US setup shouldn't
         | surprise you, it's what you yourself experience.
        
         | fennecfoxen wrote:
         | America doesn't just have sales tax differences between
         | counties! It can have sales tax differences between different
         | parts of the same city, if they decide to set it up that way -
         | usually as part of a Community Improvement District, or a
         | Transit Development District, or what have you. The idea is
         | that they built some infrastructure for retailers to take
         | advantage of, and the retailers should add an extra 1% or so to
         | pay for it.
         | 
         | This is one reason why applying sales tax to online purchases
         | is such a pain, and helps favor the incumbents like Amazon.
        
         | throwaway984393 wrote:
         | We had this little thing called a "civil war". Turns out a lot
         | of our country doesn't like the idea of a federal government,
         | and wants to do things its own way whenever it can. Trying to
         | fix that in today's political climate would probably start
         | another one.
         | 
         | I think that's why we've been the big superpower for so long.
         | We're fucking nuts. We'll invade your country for no reason and
         | then try to make you pay for it.
        
           | richardwhiuk wrote:
           | Lots of countries have had civil wars. Most of them, one side
           | won and the other side lost.
           | 
           | In the US, one side lost, and was then venerated as heroes,
           | which is particularly odd.
        
             | rsynnott wrote:
             | I'm not sure it's _that_ odd, really. Like, who won the
             | English civil war? _Really_ won it, long-term?
             | 
             | You could argue that one both ways very easily; on the one
             | hand, there's still a monarch, and there are no puritans.
             | On the other, the monarch has no power (though you could
             | convincingly argue that that was part of a process that was
             | ongoing anyway, and the civil war didn't necessarily change
             | the pace that much).
        
               | richardwhiuk wrote:
               | It's difficult to say either side is venerated as heroes.
               | 
               | It's the combination which is very odd. Plenty of
               | countries have civil strife and have one side viewed as
               | heroes. In the US both Robert E Lee and Abraham Lincoln
               | are venerated.
        
           | big_youth wrote:
           | Yeah... The US will invade countries for no reason but the
           | trillions spent are added to the backs of our own citizens.
           | 
           | Iraq and Afghanistan aren't paying us the trillions we've
           | wasted these past decades.
        
         | rsynnott wrote:
         | > 19% and 7% for food and a couple other exempted items
         | 
         | You're understating the complexity a bit here, I think. For
         | instance, what's VAT on a loaf of bread, vs a bagel, vs a
         | croissant? (I don't actually know for Germany, but in Ireland a
         | loaf of bread is zero-rated, as is a bagel, but a croissant is
         | reduced-rate, but for a period of around a year a few years
         | back a bagel was also reduced-rate...)
         | 
         | The US gets its tax complexity from regionalism, and Europe
         | gets it from baroque VAT rules. It's debatable which is worse
         | :)
        
           | spdionis wrote:
           | You're completely missing the point. The code style doesn't
           | matter as long as it's consistent across the codebase.
        
           | disgruntledphd2 wrote:
           | Sure, but the big difference between Ireland vs the US is
           | that in Ireland, the VAT is in the price you see on the
           | object, whereas in the US things just cost extra when you go
           | to pay for them.
           | 
           | I agree that VAT rules are a bit nuts, but most of the
           | insanity is shielded from most consumers.
        
             | EricE wrote:
             | I rather like having items and taxes separately. God knows
             | how crazy our politicians would get with taxes if they were
             | buried and not readily apparent!
        
               | rsynnott wrote:
               | Receipts in Europe will typically show VAT; it's just
               | that the price of the item on the shelf or website or
               | whatever must be inclusive of VAT (assuming that the
               | target market is consumers; b2b sellers are allowed show
               | ex-VAT figures provided they also show inc-VAT figures).
        
             | rsynnott wrote:
             | Oh, yeah, from a consumer perspective VAT is a far better
             | experience, but that's largely disconnected from the nature
             | of the tax, and more around consumer law. VAT is simple for
             | consumers because the EU forces sellers to present inc-VAT
             | prices. US sales tax is messy for consumers because the US
             | doesn't. It's totally possible to imagine a VAT-type regime
             | with US-style consumer rules, where you'd have to figure
             | out if your bread was actually bread before putting it in
             | the shopping basket.
        
               | disgruntledphd2 wrote:
               | > It's totally possible to imagine a VAT-type regime with
               | US-style consumer rules, where you'd have to figure out
               | if your bread was actually bread before putting it in the
               | shopping basket.
               | 
               | That would be _hilarious_ , especially if you're shopping
               | with friends.
               | 
               | It would be ludicrous though to actually implement,
               | rather like the US's sales-tax system.
        
         | antupis wrote:
         | Dry counties were thing here Finland early 00s even now
         | counties can forbid selling beverages that contain alcohol.
        
           | eonwe wrote:
           | With dry counties you mean counties that 25+ years ago
           | allowed retail of alcohol only in Alko, the state monopoly
           | store?
           | 
           | I don't think counties can fully forbid sales of alcohol.
        
           | jjgreen wrote:
           | Also in Wales, but only to the extent of "pubs closed on a
           | Sunday".
        
           | paavohtl wrote:
           | I wonder what you're referring to because Finland doesn't
           | really have counties.
        
         | sam345 wrote:
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laboratories_of_democracy
         | 
         | https://www.pbs.org/tpt/constitution-usa-peter-sagal/federal...
         | 
         | Due to its history and immigration, the US is much larger in
         | population and size and more geologically, philosophically, and
         | demographically more diverse than most countries. One size does
         | not fit all if one is seeking a stable long lasting democracy.
        
         | PragmaticPulp wrote:
         | > As an European, so much of what has been described here is
         | mind-boggling at best. WTF why does America have different
         | sales taxes between counties? Why are "dry counties" even a
         | thing? And why do healthcare costs differ so wildly?
         | 
         | The United States is a big place. We have a similar landmass to
         | all of Europe. The GDP of the state of California is almost as
         | big as the GDP of Germany.
         | 
         | It makes more sense when you think of the United States as,
         | literally, a collection of states that have significant leeway
         | in how they operate their affairs. Even individual counties can
         | vary widely in their culture and governance practices.
         | 
         | Dry counties are rare and usually associated with a highly
         | religious population that chooses to live somewhere without
         | alcohol sales. Generally these locations are not far from
         | counties that allow liquor sales so purchasing alcohol is a
         | matter of driving a short distance. However, most of the people
         | who live there deliberately choose the location because they
         | have no interest in alcohol so it's not really an issue for
         | them.
        
         | twic wrote:
         | Ah, but America has freedom, so there are a lot more laws
         | regulating what people can do.
        
           | rm445 wrote:
           | Jokes aside, the USA seems to have an enormous amount of
           | local democracy with significant powers.
           | 
           | The side most obvious to outsiders is where it seems to work
           | badly - the bad sheriff who keeps being re-elected, quirks
           | like dry counties. But it's admirable in a way, that people
           | have some power to determine the local rules, together with
           | the freedom to move away if they don't like it. If local
           | democracy were extended further, there would be more
           | variation, and more weirdness, but perhaps it would be a good
           | thing overall.
        
             | state_less wrote:
             | Remote work via the internet will likely amplify the
             | selection pressure too. Without being tied to a particular
             | location due to your job, you can now shop around for an
             | optimal location for your needs. If a bad state law is
             | enacted, you might see people flock to another state.
             | 
             | It'd be nice to see some CoL data on the international
             | level too.
        
               | AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote:
               | Remote work is realistic for a tiny fraction of the
               | population, and other pressures reduce the number of
               | available remote work jobs even further (management
               | culture, people who have no social life without the
               | office, etc.). Remote work will change absolutely
               | nothing.
        
               | state_less wrote:
               | > Remote work is realistic for a tiny fraction of the
               | population
               | 
               | I'm skeptical on this point. I think that we're already
               | around 10-20% remote work and might get to 25% remote
               | work in the coming years [1]. I don't think this is a
               | tiny fraction. I'm expecting technology to further reduce
               | the dependence on physical presence over time.
               | 
               | I think remote work has had a significant change (e.g.
               | less commute time, less pollution, more family time) and
               | could cause changes in politics too. Imagine flipping a
               | couple senate seats in a low population density area to
               | further a remote work friendly lawmaking (i.e. land use
               | rules, healthcare, etc...).
               | 
               | [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/15/one-in-four-
               | americans-will-b...
        
               | EricE wrote:
               | I don't think most people realized that not only is
               | remote work feasible but for many professions -
               | especially those in "knowledge work" - it's a huge boon.
               | 
               | Peoples eyes have been opened and the genie is out of the
               | bottle. I fully expect remote work to transform America
               | to the extent that the post WWII suburbanization will
               | look like a statistical anomaly by comparison.
        
             | BoxOfRain wrote:
             | I often find myself really liking the idea of local
             | democracy and wishing for more of it where I live, but then
             | I remember the kind of insane moral puritans with nothing
             | better to do that get attacted to local politics like flies
             | to rubbish tips! My country has a very authoritarian
             | instinct among many in society to ban anything that doesn't
             | neatly fit into their beige conventionality, and as bad as
             | our heavily centralised government can be at least it keeps
             | a muzzle on those sorts of people to an extent.
        
               | richardwhiuk wrote:
               | I think part of the problem is media coverage of the
               | democracy - at some point, coherent, competent analysis
               | and coverage becomes impractical.
        
               | rsynnott wrote:
               | Local democracy sounds nice in the abstract, right up
               | until you look at it: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-
               | news/2021/feb/05/handforth-in...
               | 
               | (Note that a 'parish council' here is for a civil parish,
               | that is the smallest type of administrative unit in the
               | UK; it's not a church parish)
               | 
               | At that point, you will probably be relieved that those
               | idiots aren't allowed do anything important.
               | 
               | I suppose in principle if local authorities were more
               | important, you might get more competent people running
               | for election onto them, but given the average quality of
               | _national_ backbenchers, this seems optimistic.
        
               | BoxOfRain wrote:
               | I think we have to fundamentally change how the party
               | system works if we're going to get people in politics for
               | the right reasons in general, but especially in local
               | politics. There's no reason that the people collecting
               | bins, filling potholes, and providing essential services
               | along those lines need to be associated with the moral
               | abattoirs that are the national political parties for
               | example, at least in my experience these local
               | politicians are voted on based on an area's national
               | political inclinations rather than any individual merit
               | which lets all sorts of lunatics in. The first thing we
               | need to do is break this link and make local government
               | completely non-partisan.
               | 
               | I wish there was an empirical way of screening out moral
               | puritan types with the aim of directly eliminating their
               | influence, but I'm not sure that can be done without
               | endangering democracy itself. A more difficult but much
               | more ethical approach I think is to try and create new
               | social norms that make aggressive conformity something to
               | be ashamed rather than proud of, puritanism in any
               | direction should be made into a sign of weakness rather
               | than strength. We need a society that instinctively
               | defends "witches" when the witch-hunters are in town.
        
               | rsynnott wrote:
               | > The first thing we need to do is break this link and
               | make local government completely non-partisan.
               | 
               | That's impossible; political parties naturally emerge in
               | democracies. Very few countries have the official
               | recognition of parties that the US does (party
               | registration, official primaries etc) but all democracies
               | have political parties.
        
               | BoxOfRain wrote:
               | Even if we kept national politics partisan which I'm
               | personally against for a number of reasons, the petty
               | squabbles and power plays of Westminster are utterly
               | irrelevant to the functions of local government and
               | should play no part in its selection.
               | 
               | Non-partisan democracies do exist, some of them are even
               | directly associated with the UK such as the Falkland
               | Islands and the Isle of Man which are roughly the size of
               | a British parish and a council respectively.
        
             | EricE wrote:
             | It's easier to get in the face of local politicians vs.
             | ones hundreds or thousands of miles away.
             | 
             | Indeed I would argue the more we defer to national politics
             | the worse (dramatically worse!) things get. Senators were
             | set up to be elected by the state legislatures on purpose
             | to encourage people to pay attention to their state
             | legislatures. The House of Representatives were selected by
             | popular vote.
             | 
             | Separation of duties/check and balances. The 17th amendment
             | "fixed" that - and I'd say every since it's been downhill
             | from there. Pure democracy's CAN NOT work - it's why we are
             | (for now) a representative republic. There is no perfect
             | system as long as humans are involved, but we were blessed
             | with a pretty good one. I wish people would stop trying to
             | tear it down - we know from history the alternatives are
             | pretty gawd awful.
        
           | handrous wrote:
           | A _very_ well-travelled photoblogger I used to read once
           | remarked that no country in the world loves posting
           | paragraphs of fine-print regulations and signs telling you
           | what you can 't do, all over every wall, sidewalk, curb, and
           | business entrance like the US does--IIRC only a couple others
           | (I wanna say Australia?) even came close. Most have,
           | comparatively, practically none, democracies and
           | authoritarians states alike. After having that pointed out, I
           | can't un-see it. We really do love it.
        
       | blunte wrote:
       | The author is a person I would never argue with.
        
         | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
         | Never argue, or never bother arguing with?
        
       | hoppyhoppy2 wrote:
       | >I might have gone a little bit overboard
       | 
       | When a blog post weighs over 4MB, yeah, I'd call that going a
       | little bit overboard :)
        
       | johnchristopher wrote:
       | Really nice reading ! Not ashamed to admit I didn't understand
       | everything and didn't reach the end (to my defense: not living in
       | the US, not a us citizen).
       | 
       | But considering taxes can change from year to year, all this work
       | and research has to be redone every few years, right ?
        
       | Johnny555 wrote:
       | The missing dimension is "climate", which is at the top of my
       | list when looking for places to retire - I like to spend time
       | outside.
       | 
       | I live in the Pacific Northwest and while winters are a little
       | too cold and rainy, summers are typically perfect (ignoring the
       | recent Heat Dome, which I hope will not become a regular part of
       | summer). I've thought about moving back to the Bay Area
       | (fortunately, my job allows me to afford it), but between the
       | droughts and wildfires, I'm not sure it's the same place that I
       | left. Maybe I'll just rent an AirBNB there for a month in the
       | winter.
        
       | natmaka wrote:
       | Such an optimization, if largely adopted, may create zoned
       | clusters, "administrative/geographic areas were a given category
       | of population is over-represented".
       | 
       | This will boost any pertinent local commercial activity (and,
       | reciprocally, dumb down anything not pertinent), the zone will
       | become even more attractive to this population category, and so
       | on...
       | 
       | This population category will gain influence, and vote local laws
       | in favor among its members, boosting the feedback loop.
        
         | asoneth wrote:
         | This theory is often called "the Big Sort".
         | 
         | In abstract, allowing people to move to places where the
         | government and work more closely matches their personal values
         | and skillsets seems like a good way to increase everyone's
         | satisfaction. In practice I'm not sure.
        
       | nickhalfasleep wrote:
       | Would be even nicer if it included long term climate and
       | environmental risks. Those Georgia locations are going to bake.
        
       | dragonwriter wrote:
       | referring to 2016 presidential election data:
       | 
       | > Having access to this information at a state level in the past
       | was a simple public records request. Having this level of
       | detailed information at a national level, with a tool affordable
       | enough so that an individual entity separate from a corporation
       | could visualize the results - historic.
       | 
       | Only the GIS-style visualization part, which is probably the
       | least important piece if you are cross tabulating with other
       | county- and state-level data to find a county suitable to live
       | in, e.g., for 2012:
       | 
       | https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/nov/07/us-201...
       | 
       | IIRC, most states have been posting county level results on the
       | web since the late 1990s, so it's mostly been an evening of
       | crossing public websites even before convenient national
       | aggregates were published.
        
       | MobileVet wrote:
       | This is really fantastic... and also fairly sobering. Healthcare
       | as the major cost center for an individual is partially
       | understandable yet often discounted. Sad the variance is so high.
       | 
       | I would love to see this for the top ~40 or so countries of the
       | world. As indicated in the comments, I think it would be very
       | different and offer an interesting look at cost / benefits of
       | various governments as they relate to someone's livelihood.
        
         | smeej wrote:
         | I was confused why this matters so much in a discussion of
         | where to _retire._
         | 
         | The Social Security calculations clearly indicate that's the
         | consideration, but Medicare kicks in at 65. What does the ACA
         | matter at that point?
         | 
         | I'd have understood if there was mention of Medicare gap
         | coverage options instead, but ACA costs really don't make sense
         | to me in this context.
        
           | jupiter90000 wrote:
           | She mentioned calculating that due to retiring before the age
           | of 65 as an option. However comparing only 2nd cheapest
           | silver plan seems a little lacking; more equivalent would
           | probably entail comparing price of plans that are actually
           | close to equivalent in terms of deductibles and out of pocket
           | costs. When I've looked at ACA plans, there seems to be
           | significant variance between states and just using the plan
           | color and price doesn't necessarily indicate they are close
           | to equivalent.
        
       | chromatin wrote:
       | The writing was really bad and difficult to follow.
       | 
       | In the end I realized it was an ad for her startup (willowfinch)
       | which apparently does the same thing -- screen for where-to-live.
        
         | sonofaragorn wrote:
         | How did this get to the front page of HN? It's very poor
         | quality and almost every comment has a negative sentiment.
        
           | burnished wrote:
           | Because it is interesting! Not every blog with a good idea to
           | explore is a well polished and well produced performance, you
           | know?
        
             | sonofaragorn wrote:
             | Good point! I guess I just thought the bar was higher. I've
             | seen people write on their bio that they got to the front
             | page once lol
        
             | EricE wrote:
             | Yes, I found it extremely helpful, and so have several
             | friends I've already shared it with. I find the comments
             | about "quality" pretty ludicrous and more than a bit
             | elitist.
        
         | remram wrote:
         | I think it's on purpose. The cryptic title doesn't help either.
        
           | saimiam wrote:
           | Yeah, I realize that but the HN submission rules say not to
           | edit the title.
           | 
           | Btw, I didn't write the piece - I just built the blogging
           | platform on which this is hosted.
        
       | sidlls wrote:
       | This is a really poor, rambling presentation of some really poor
       | quality data analysis.
        
         | commandlinefan wrote:
         | I re-read the first paragraph a few times and finally figured
         | out "hubster" means "her husband" (I think...). There might be
         | some value in here, but I couldn't get through the writing.
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | I did not think there was any value, especially as it turned
           | out to be a poorly written ad (or may be just one that was
           | not intended to appeal to me).
           | 
           | Her partner's obsession with sales tax made no sense either,
           | considering there are far bigger costs to consider for one's
           | retirement budget.
        
             | robotresearcher wrote:
             | The article says
             | 
             | > Who cares if there are income taxes? When it came to
             | monthly expenses, the savings would be thousands less paid
             | in health insurance.
        
         | eplanit wrote:
         | Yes. In the end, the piece is really an ad for her analytics
         | business.
        
       | thayne wrote:
       | How did we get to a point where people make decisions about where
       | they move based on how the neighbors voted in the last election?
        
         | Revekius wrote:
         | I highly recommend reading "The Big Sort" by Bill Bishop to
         | give you a better idea of why we look at "politics".
         | 
         | https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2569072-the-big-sort
         | 
         | The idea is a lot less about politics, and more about being
         | comfortable in the area you live in.
        
         | psychometry wrote:
         | When one of the two major candidates decided the US shouldn't
         | be a democracy any more?
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | Aeolun wrote:
         | Well... like. If I were living in the Netherlands I would not
         | care one whit.
         | 
         | Seeing those raving lunatics roving over the capitol grounds
         | gives me pause though.
         | 
         | I _know_ most people aren't like that, but it's hard to not be
         | worried.
        
           | commandlinefan wrote:
           | > Seeing those raving lunatics roving over the capitol
           | grounds
           | 
           | I know, the Kavanaugh protesters were totally unreasonable.
        
             | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
             | I think he either means the two left wing capitol bombings,
             | or Jan 6th. Who can tell anymore!?
        
         | asoneth wrote:
         | I lived in multiple deep red communities in multiple red states
         | while working as a military contractor. The warfighters I
         | worked with were absolutely phenomenal but the broader cities
         | and towns around were a poor culture fit for me. (To be clear,
         | my neighbors were all very nice people, it was just the culture
         | fit compared to purple/blue areas I've lived in.)
         | 
         | I'd suggest that if someone is more than a couple of queer,
         | atheist, racial minority, vegetarian, cyclist, artist, nerdy,
         | career-oriented female, etc then they may find it even more
         | challenging to fit in.
         | 
         | It's worth looking carefully at any community before moving in,
         | but it's worth looking especially carefully before moving to a
         | deep red area in a red state.
         | 
         | (Or vice-versa if you're a religious conservative -- you might
         | find a dark blue community in a blue state a poor fit.)
        
         | jupiter90000 wrote:
         | It's not that hard to see why this matters now.
         | 
         | On the one hand you have folks that want to ban rights of LGBTQ
         | folks, end ability to get an abortion safely, for example.
         | 
         | On the other there's those that want to remove powers of the
         | police, allow homeless drug addicts to take over neighborhoods,
         | and more authoritarian style lockdown policies in public
         | health.
         | 
         | There's people that really don't like some of that and will go
         | where their lives feel less restricted.
        
           | voakbasda wrote:
           | Indeed. I want to relocate where there are none of either
           | persuasion. Every side is utterly wackadoo, and I would just
           | as soon get out of here once and for all.
           | 
           | But there is no place to go. The global status quo has me
           | trapped here as a prisoner. There will no escape, no relief,
           | and no freedom. I am and shall always be a slave of some
           | State; I can only pick my poison.
           | 
           | These words will ring true, for some, in every corner of the
           | world. But by all means, continue to ignore, marginalize, and
           | exploit us. That surely will end well.
        
             | liketochill wrote:
             | People are mostly pretty chill in Canada
        
               | EricE wrote:
               | lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYbBKjh-zic
               | 
               | Recent rulings in Canada over speech are pretty nuts too
               | given their history. Worse than the batshit crazy stuff
               | going on in Britain today :p
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | remram wrote:
         | This is the only way to vote in the US. The election system
         | does not tally individual ballots, only number of inhabitants
         | in blue and red states/counties.
         | 
         | Given that system, this is a very democratic and rational move.
        
         | rsynnott wrote:
         | ... I mean, I think we've always been there, or at least some
         | of us have? I live in Ireland, which is generally less
         | politically divided than the US, but I don't think I'd be up
         | from moving from my current area (where 75% of people voted to
         | allow same-sex marriage) to one of the rural areas that voted
         | about 50%. I'd rather live in a place where only a quarter of
         | the neighbors think I shouldn't have basic civil rights than
         | one where half do. This doesn't seem so out there?
         | 
         | That's the personal angle of course, but also I'd generally
         | prefer to live somewhere where the neighbors aren't out to get
         | other marginalised groups, either...
         | 
         | US political party identification is a decent though not
         | perfect proxy for how your neighbors are likely to feel about a
         | whole range of issues, and _people_.
        
           | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
           | > US political party identification is a decent though not
           | perfect proxy for how your neighbors are likely to feel about
           | a whole range of issues, and _people_.
           | 
           | Not nearly as much as you have been told it is. But that's a
           | really nice way to generalize conservatives as racists. The
           | truth is as a local who has lived in both areas, I've met
           | just as many left wing racists as right, just in different
           | ways.
        
             | cloverich wrote:
             | People includes people who are gay, trans, muslims, etc.
             | But i think the broader "whole range of issuse" claim was
             | more to the point, as someone who has spent most of their
             | life amongst deep red friends, family, and locations, those
             | issues come up quite a bit. And more pointedly, for example
             | i am pretty interested (and fearful) of climate change but
             | can't even talk about it with half my friends/ family
             | because they don't think its real or may be offended by
             | some of the points. It takes a toll on you.
        
             | fundad wrote:
             | I find that many pro-establishment people on the left are
             | uncomfortable acknowledging institutional racism and harbor
             | some anti-blackness.
             | 
             | I find more diversity of thought among anti-establishment
             | left because what's important to them/us is addressed by
             | such a variety of movements rather than mainstream
             | politics.
             | 
             | In this sense establishment Democrats are a proxy for the
             | anti-establishment left, many of whom can't even vote.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | lotsofpulp wrote:
         | I get access to paid parental leave, an extra 8 weeks of
         | parental leave, do not have to worry about women's healthcare
         | (abortion choice), higher minimum wages and a minimum salary,
         | no tipped wages, assisted suicide, legal marijuana, etc. I can
         | also get alcohol in the next aisle over instead of having to go
         | to a different store (not that I drink outside of an occasion,
         | but the principal of it annoyed me).
         | 
         | And even though a bunch do not affect me, my kids might benefit
         | from them someday. Was a no brainer for me to look at how my
         | neighbors would be voting when choosing where to live.
        
         | fundad wrote:
         | The strong correlation between voting and denying the Jan 6
         | attack, Climate Change and COVID-19 is how.
        
         | seventytwo wrote:
         | Did you live under a rock the last four years?!
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | Simulacra wrote:
       | When we were looking for our first house we got a flyer about a
       | service that would help us choose the best location that fit with
       | our "lifestyle and personal" preferences. Once of those was to
       | look at which neighborhoods were liberal and which were
       | conservative, and give us an idea of the kind of neighbors we
       | would have. Quite useful, though we never used the service, as
       | granular data continues to be collected and stored I wonder if
       | we'll see people more and more choosing neighborhoods based on
       | the quality of their neighbors.
        
       | mikewarot wrote:
       | There were many fascinating things here, but in the back of my
       | mind, there was this
       | 
       | "The best-laid schemes o' mice an' men Gang aft agley"
       | 
       | I'd go for friends, family, and a place where you'd be happy.
       | Taxes and other factors vary across time, why not be somewhere
       | nice instead of always worrying the optimum spot won't be next
       | year?
        
       | engineer_22 wrote:
       | Unfortunately the cool tool she is touting is not open to public
       | testing?
        
       | pferde wrote:
       | "You need to enable JavaScript to run this app."
       | 
       | Yeah, I'd say you might have gone a little bit overboard, for an
       | "app" that just shows a text article.
        
         | tommek4077 wrote:
         | Good luck with a comment like this in this JavaScript
         | "Hacker"-Community. +1
        
       | outsidetheparty wrote:
       | I was honestly intrigued by the startup this is an ad for -- this
       | subject is very relevant to my interests -- but their website
       | just has more marketing copy, a YouTube video demonstrating
       | features that don't appear to exist anywhere, and a "sign up for
       | our spam" form.
       | 
       | Maybe wait to start your marketing efforts until you actually
       | have something ready to market, eh?
        
         | RosanaAnaDana wrote:
         | >Maybe wait to start your marketing efforts until you actually
         | have something ready to market, eh?
         | 
         | I feel personally attacked by this sentiment. As a fellow wonk,
         | there is a lot more to getting a program out to the world than
         | just the cleverness of connecting the dots. You don't have
         | anything without the cleverness, but the dot connecting takes
         | time. I look forward to good things. I liked the blog and I
         | think the product would be neat to couple with zillow
         | fantasies.
        
           | outsidetheparty wrote:
           | I don't understand what you mean by "the cleverness of
           | connecting the dots" or why you would feel personally
           | attacked.
           | 
           | My point was that I, a potential customer -- this really is
           | directly relevant to my current life situation -- visited the
           | site, found nothing there but an email harvester, so left
           | without spending any money and with a poor impression of the
           | company.
           | 
           | Driving people to your site before there's anything there is
           | wasted effort. Save it for when you're actually ready to do
           | something with that traffic.
        
           | EricE wrote:
           | Hi! I really enjoyed your post. As to the site, it would be
           | VERY helpful if there were at least a "Coming Soon" or
           | something similar. I was trying different browsers,
           | computers, etc. just to ensure there wasn't something
           | technical on my side preventing me from potentially using the
           | site.
           | 
           | You typically get one chance to make a first impression.
           | Indeed, along with the "Coming Soon" message you can offer to
           | notify people when you do go operational - win win. I'd like
           | that since the site looks like it could be very useful (and
           | not just for myself!).
        
       | rcthompson wrote:
       | The exposition on how to interpret boxplots is odd, especially
       | the part about the difference between the median and the mean
       | being representative of the "variance". I want to give the
       | benefit of the doubt and assume the author is simply using
       | "variance" to refer to a different statistical concept (e.g.
       | skew), but then later she writes "the variance between the
       | Washington state average & median values is negligible - meaning
       | there is little / no variation in the dataset" which is just
       | wrong. The WA boxplot has the _largest_ variance of any state on
       | the plot. And the distinction is not just academic, because that
       | larger variance increases the potential savings for moving from
       | their current WA home to a cheaper home in the same state.
        
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