[HN Gopher] A Twitter addict realizes she needs rehab
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       A Twitter addict realizes she needs rehab
        
       Author : DLay
       Score  : 76 points
       Date   : 2021-07-05 18:09 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theatlantic.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theatlantic.com)
        
       | DoreenMichele wrote:
       | _It was time for Twitter rehab.
       | 
       | It was to be a battle of wills between one aging, chemo-addled
       | brain and_
       | 
       | So the real story is she had chemo therapy at some point,
       | presumably for cancer, and was still impaired and during
       | presumably her recovery, Twitter became too big a thing in her
       | life. Either out of prosaic misattribution or intentionally
       | creating drama for the sake of writing a story, she frames it as
       | _an addiction_ she needed to beat.
       | 
       | This really had nothing to do with Twitter. If Twitter hadn't
       | existed, there would be some other thing she got stuck on during
       | recovery.
       | 
       | Twitter was the right amount of mental engagement for her during
       | recovery when harder things were beyond her reach. When she was
       | more recovered, she recognized it was time to move on and do
       | other things. And she did so.
       | 
       | The end.
        
         | nickkell wrote:
         | I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. She mentions
         | chemo once in passing, but not when she went through it. Her
         | profile says she joined Twitter in 2009, so quite a long time.
         | 
         | Anyway, what do you think she'd be addicted to if not Twitter?
         | Crack cocaine?
        
           | DoreenMichele wrote:
           | _Anyway, what do you think she 'd be addicted to if not
           | Twitter? Crack cocaine?_
           | 
           | Maybe crossword puzzles, which were the go to back in the day
           | for people who liked words.
        
       | whywhywhywhy wrote:
       | They hide the tweet counts for a reason.
       | 
       | It's hard to respect the "Verified" users if you knew they all
       | have tweet counts that when divided by hours since they joined
       | the platform it comes out at over 1 tweet an hour every hour for
       | 9+ years.
       | 
       | You can check this yourself using the wayback machine to see all
       | their counts from before it was hidden. Pretty much every popular
       | personality on Twitter is hopelessly addicted to it and you
       | realize how little value their views have when they must be
       | staring at it for hours and hours a day.
        
         | danso wrote:
         | But tweet counts aren't hidden? In the iOS app, they show up at
         | the top when you scroll down a user timeline. On the web app,
         | it's always visible on the sticky header of a user's
         | profile/timeline
        
       | pixxel wrote:
       | I quit Twitter around 2014/5. I couldn't figure out why people
       | were posting about inane topics (what I ate for breakfast etc.)
       | and not talking about subjects that matter (politics, corruption
       | etc.). In particular why weren't celebrities with huge followings
       | not talking about important issues.
       | 
       | Well, how wrong was I. I'd love to go back to that time.
        
       | swader999 wrote:
       | I find twitter really good for staying abreast of local
       | emergencies. Fire in the area, road closed etc. All the EMS are
       | on it and post near real time updates when stuff is going on.
        
       | sys_64738 wrote:
       | The only utility I ever got from Twitter was negotiating
       | favorable rates for Xfinity via the Comcast Twitter handle.
       | Otherwise it feels like a complete waste of time.
        
       | tifadg1 wrote:
       | I never found the appeal. If something important is posted, it'll
       | be picked up by everyone, otherwise it's 99% likely noise, and
       | not even the interesting kind.
        
         | axaxs wrote:
         | Same. I don't really use social media, but see the appeal of
         | some. FB for staying in touch with family and friends. Insta
         | for sharing photos. Heck even TikTok looks like a lot of fun.
         | 
         | Twitter just seems like narcissistic self important people
         | yelling over each other. Guess I never figured that one out.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | captainmuon wrote:
       | Besides my personal account which I rarely use, I collaborate on
       | another account that is mostly write-only, to be honest.
       | 
       | Social media is good if you want to spread a message and reach
       | other interested people. It is also good to find interesting
       | stuff as a distraction.
       | 
       | Social networks _used_ to be good to represent yourself, to keep
       | contact with friends, and to meet new real people around you. It
       | 's really sad nothing like that exists anymore.
        
       | xg15 wrote:
       | Out of couriosity, with all the attempts to create a "healthy"
       | social network, has anyone attempted to build one that has a
       | defined downtime for the _entire_ network? (I 'm thinking at
       | least a consecutive week each month, possibly more)
       | 
       | After all, a large part of "withdrawal" seems to be FOMO, i.e.
       | the feeling that _everyone else_ is having the time of their life
       | while you are missing out. However, if you can be sure nothing is
       | happening because the network is shut down, FOMO might be greatly
       | reduced.
        
         | batch12 wrote:
         | Interesting. This reminds me of the bank of time I used to have
         | to manage on a BBS. Imagine being limited to 30/60 minutes a
         | day. Would that make interactions more valuable?
        
         | david_allison wrote:
         | https://www.sundayy.app/ does this
        
       | tayo42 wrote:
       | I guess the author was kept around by the need to comment and
       | interact. Seems like an aspect that I don't hear about to much.
       | Usually people seem to talk about scrolling, consuming and time
       | wasting on these sites. I can kind of relate to this
       | behavior.(even here I'm commenting, sharing my pointless thoughts
       | lol)
       | 
       | I guess she just has a need and strong desire to share thoughts
       | and write them down. Considering she seems to be enough of an
       | author to be published writing is something she likes to do.
       | Twitter would be another outlet for that. Is that so bad, as long
       | as its not interfering with the rest of her life. Seems like she
       | still is writing long articles regularly.
       | 
       | I feel like i got wrapped up in the need to comment too. I did do
       | some similar experiments on my self. The trigger for this was
       | political stuff. A little more drastically i went and deleted my
       | twitter account, to my surprise the account is actually fully
       | gone after 30 days. I never felt like putting the effort to get
       | an account back so that habit is pretty much gone. Facebook
       | doesn't have much of a network for me anymore, feels like its
       | dying so it doesn't get much use from me except for linking with
       | instagram. Instagram i only use as a photo sharing place and to
       | see artwork, not really a commenter there. Disconnecting from
       | reddit was interesting, i found my self still wanting to comment,
       | and make throwaway jokes. Nothing thoughtful, dumb shit i thought
       | would be funny. Sometimes I would see a small comment suggesting
       | something wrong and wanted to them know. It feels like weird
       | behavior.
       | 
       | Overall i guess i wonder why we make comments, like what drives
       | this behavior. Then why most other people don't participate. I
       | think only 1% or something of an online community actually
       | contribute. These comments seem to be somewhere between actually
       | sharing thoughts and socializing but not quite either.
        
         | allenu wrote:
         | I think we make comments because we want our thoughts and
         | opinions to be validated by someone else. With Twitter, you
         | have an endless list of trending topics to discuss, and an
         | endless list of people to discuss them.
         | 
         | In real life, you have to bring up a topic and provide some
         | context surrounding it before you can even share your opinion
         | on it. Even then, your conversation partner may not even be
         | interested in what you have to say. But on social media,
         | someone out there must be interested in your thoughts, and is
         | likely well-versed in it (they're also tweeting actively), so
         | you post it. You get a 'like' or a response for your thought or
         | opinion. You feel good.
         | 
         | The thing is, opinions require zero energy or effort. You just
         | have them. I think that's part of what makes it addictive. You
         | don't have to do any work, just share your thoughts, and you'll
         | get feedback from the system. That feedback feels good. With
         | enough feedback, you're soon sharing the most pithy thoughts,
         | or most banal facts just to get another hit.
        
         | nickkell wrote:
         | I got the feeling she wanted to write something pithy in
         | response to current events (understandable as she's a good
         | writer), but it was eating up her time. She mentions the site
         | effectively stopped her reading books.
         | 
         | It's also bizarre that people need to share every private
         | thought and action with the world. An author died and she re-
         | read their book. How much of that impulse stemmed from a inform
         | the public about it?
        
       | lovelyviking wrote:
       | Oh ... Twitter! How about those who never joined the Twitter?
       | Should I join the Twitter? Serious question. Why to join it in
       | the first place? What are the reasons to join it?
        
         | FilMo wrote:
         | I don't use Twitter nor Instagram. I'm not a social media
         | addict. I always can join my friends by phone. Or if I need to
         | meet new people, I can easily find communication or get a gf at
         | one of the top rated hookup sites (https://www.besthookup-
         | sites.com/). So there is no need to join all those junk social
         | media and stick there for a long time sorting someone's else
         | garbage.
        
       | sylens wrote:
       | A bit from Bo Burnham's new special "Inside" has really resonated
       | with me. He essentially says that people are increasingly
       | treating real life as some sort of coal mine - a place where they
       | go to extract something (an experience, an opinion, whatever) and
       | then bring it back to the surface to share and use in the digital
       | world.
        
         | throwaway98797 wrote:
         | This has always been the case.
         | 
         | To live for onself onto one self is hard. Much easier to share
         | your life and convince yourself it has meaning through external
         | validation.
         | 
         | There's rarely peace in one owns head. The hollow solace lies
         | outside of us, with true peace hard to achieve, if achievable
         | at all.
        
         | zikduruqe wrote:
         | It used to be that art imitated life.
         | 
         | It is now that life imitates art.
        
       | underseacables wrote:
       | Im surprised by The Atlantic publishing this, so much of the
       | media are dependent upon twitter for stories
        
         | wutbrodo wrote:
         | The Atlantic has consistently done a good job of balancing
         | perspectives, at least along certain axes. They were the first
         | mainstream/prestige publication I can recall that dared to
         | criticize the illiberal swing the left was taking, during a
         | period when there was quite a chilling effect around doing so
         | (with Haight's Coddling of the American Mind article, in 2015).
         | 
         | They're exactly the publication I'd expect to publish something
         | that breaks with the groupthink infecting the rest of the
         | industry.
        
       | Popegaf wrote:
       | Twitter is about the worst platform I've seen. It's worse than
       | all the "chan" websites and I don't know how they are allowed to
       | continue.
       | 
       | The only major difference I can see between the two are the
       | political and ideological opposites. On the chans it's A-OK to
       | post about wiping out some "inferior race", while on Twitter
       | wiping out or mistreating men is accepted. All kinds of kink porn
       | is easily found on Twitter (which was a big surprise), people
       | confess to crimes, harass each other, dox and send death threats
       | to "the other side", spread fake news, falsely accuse each other
       | with real world consequences, and so much more. Yet somehow,
       | Twitter is a standard app on devices, newspapers, governments,
       | underage kids and grandpas use it.
       | 
       | Is it just money?
        
       | bastard_op wrote:
       | I get annoyed every time people post twitter links here and wish
       | they'd stop. Since twits requires javascript (to infect/track
       | everyone) now, I just will not. It's like the old paywall site
       | argument, will you sell your soul?
        
       | dave_sid wrote:
       | Okay
        
       | themodelplumber wrote:
       | I guess as long as you're not addicted(?), Twitter is a great
       | research tool for specific kinds of things. For example open
       | source intelligence topics.
       | 
       | Or general learning about a given topic. Tons of writers and
       | journalists use Twitter, so if you're interested in higher-
       | quality takes on a given topic, or just updates on e.g. author
       | interviews and upcoming events, it can be a really good resource.
       | 
       | I tested Twitter while doing some research on astrology and found
       | that some of the most on-target astrology advice I could find was
       | found in the Twitter Topic for my ascendant sign (different from
       | the typical sun sign used in astrology). It was far better than
       | some of the paid services I tested. Very subjective-anecdotal (I
       | ended up making my own lists based on what was interesting/useful
       | to me) but I think it shows that it helps to consciously examine
       | what Twitter is good at.
       | 
       | Lists can be really good too. Like this one for Open Source CAD:
       | https://twitter.com/i/lists/963793700190146560
        
       | leesalminen wrote:
       | I quit Twitter 1 year ago this week and couldn't be happier about
       | my decision. The time distance has made me realize how banal the
       | whole thing is. I used to think I was staying in the loop of what
       | society is thinking about. In retrospect, it was really just the
       | loudest 1% and didn't represent what anyone I know in real life
       | was talking about.
        
         | prasenjit_pro wrote:
         | At a personal perspective it is best to quit most social media
         | channels including Twitter for a daily surfing craving because
         | only a handful people whom you care & whom you matter the most
         | would be there waiting on social media. Most of my closed
         | people miss the personal touch, some free time jumping around
         | to the ground and spending time at some pals place and hate to
         | talk on Social media while we can do many more things out of
         | the Internet box. It's what matters. History of our online
         | usage can be used by advertisers but not by our loved ones.
        
         | altano wrote:
         | The internet in general is prone to "the loudest 1%" problem,
         | but Twitter is something special where it's the craziest and
         | loudest 0.01%.
         | 
         | It's so sad because all JS related discourse moved to Twitter
         | at some point so I keep trying to make it work, but have to
         | keep quitting for my sanity's sake.
        
           | Tenoke wrote:
           | Was JS Twitter itself toxic? Because if not I don't see why
           | you wouldn't just follow the relevant accounts and not see
           | any of the stuff the article talks about.
        
             | lhnz wrote:
             | Yes. A lot of JS Twitter is extremely toxic.
        
               | g00gler wrote:
               | It's absolutely _insane_ and there's really no reason for
               | it.
               | 
               | Controversy with the angular team or high profile
               | developers -- why?
               | 
               | I've been off social media for years but I'd hear about
               | it second hand from coworkers.
        
               | hallway_monitor wrote:
               | A lot of JS is extremely toxic.
        
               | wizzwizz4 wrote:
               | JS is actually okay. Horrible, horrible language, but
               | like PHP there's some decent stuff in it. The only bad
               | things about JS (other than JS itself) are the "write
               | everything in four layers of frameworks" (but that's more
               | a webdev thing than a JavaScript thing) and "four billion
               | node dependencies that re-implement JavaScript built-ins"
               | (bad, but not "extremely toxic").
        
             | altano wrote:
             | Yes, even JS Twitter is extremely toxic by my definition.
             | But more importantly there is no group of people you can
             | follow to keep the ratio of JS related content above even
             | 10%. It's not a reasonable way of following a topic.
        
               | FreeSpeech wrote:
               | It extends beyond JS Twitter. Every second JS project
               | website or repo reads like a tribal Twitter bio.
               | 
               | The more accessible the language, the more politicised.
        
               | j4yav wrote:
               | I have had a simple rule to unfollow anyone who posts off
               | topic, and honestly it works pretty well. A lot of people
               | have accounts just for talking about whatever topic they
               | are interested in.
               | 
               | It does mean occasionally unfollowing someone who has
               | otherwise great content, but often it's retweeted by
               | someone else I do follow, and anyway - it's worth the
               | cost.
        
               | whatever_dude wrote:
               | Same. I keep my Twitter feed extremely on topic of what I
               | enjoy/want and it's a great experience as a result.
               | Anything proud gets culled via muting specific keywords
               | or unfollowing.
        
             | tayo42 wrote:
             | You cant filter topics, like I followed kenji from serious
             | eats on twitter for food stuff but kept posting about
             | politics. I guess he eventually quit and just posts food on
             | instagram now.
        
               | undfg wrote:
               | Even if you could filter topics somehow, many users would
               | do whatever to bypass the filters to get their political
               | messages through them.
               | 
               | It would reach the point where not trying very hard to
               | bypass the filters would make you liable somehow: "you, a
               | JavaScript developer, should've tried harder to bypass
               | the politics filters when you posted your pro LGBT tweet.
               | What are you, an anti-Semite?"
        
             | tomjen3 wrote:
             | The problem is that you can follow lists of people related
             | to, say, VueJS (how these lists are create I don't know,
             | but they are more or less accurate), but you don't
             | subscribe to their VueJs posts, you subscribe to their
             | twitters.
             | 
             | Google Plus got this right in reverse, in that you could
             | organize your people into circles based on your interests
             | and then you could choose which circles to share any post
             | with. If they had done it so that I could subscribe to you
             | for either everything or just things about VueJS, than they
             | would probably still be around.
             | 
             | In fact if somebody is trying to start a Twitter
             | competitor, there is a space for a copy where you must
             | select at least one tag for your posts and where I can then
             | subscribe to intersections of tags and people.
             | 
             | It doesn't even have to be anything about politics, but
             | Cpervia tweets about cryptography and FreeBSD. I have no
             | interest in the latter, but I have to skip over the tweets
             | that he makes because there is no good filter for them.
             | 
             | Now suppose It was somebody posting about compilers and
             | upsetting pictures of aborted fetuses. In theory I could
             | still skip those, but it would be far harder.
        
           | colordrops wrote:
           | I created two accounts, one for political screaming and the
           | other for "sane" follows, like programmers and scientists and
           | artists etc. I ended up only paying attention to the
           | screaming Twitter just deleted it.
        
           | Blikkentrekker wrote:
           | It's not so much the internet as it is websites with voting
           | and "like" systems.
           | 
           | I notice it too on _H.N._ ; it would not surprise me if 75%
           | of votes on posts come from 25% of users, if not more
           | extreme.
           | 
           | The people that vote on posts, not the people that comment,
           | dictate what becomes visible, and it stands to reason that
           | the former group is considerably less prudent and more prone
           | to impulsive angry decisions than the latter.
           | 
           | I've certainly noticed quite a bit on _H.N._ , and even more
           | so on _Reddit_ that upvoted threads with sensationalist
           | headlines are more heavily scrutinized in the comments for
           | being misleading.
        
             | tester756 wrote:
             | upvotes/downvotes/likes are in my opinion net negative
             | 
             | It's hard to convince world to move from this thing, but it
             | promotes some kind of addiction, an ability to manipulate
             | 
             | web 2.0 is kinda mistake when it comes to news and stuff.
        
               | Blikkentrekker wrote:
               | It exists on many websites because that userbase wants
               | it.
               | 
               | Virtually all websites that have them such as _Reddit_ ,
               | _Facebook_ , and _Youtube_ are known to promote isolated
               | echo chambers and extremist views, but that 's what they
               | attract so it's not going away or they would loose their
               | userbase.
               | 
               | I do not believe that _Reddit_ was started with this
               | mentality, but at it 's start wanted to promote
               | decentralized leadership, but by now they must have
               | realized this and their current policy seems to be to
               | capitalize on their current userbase, which is known to
               | favor and enjoy echo chambers. -- _H.N._ is to a certain
               | extent spared from this because it only has one page
               | rather than attempting to divide itself into semi-
               | isolated communities, but it 's still quite obvious in
               | distinct threads that one can be upvoted for saying the
               | same thing one can be downvoted for in another thread,
               | and that in general threads are filled with agreement.
               | 
               | Ironically, in this very comment train, people are mostly
               | agreeing with each other that the voting system creates
               | too much of an echo-chamber.
        
               | DoreenMichele wrote:
               | I don't agree with this take. I run multiple small
               | Reddits, though several are _restricted_ which means no
               | one but me can post new content (though other people can
               | comment).
               | 
               | There are a lot of small Reddits that are off the beaten
               | path. It's a diverse ecosystem and you aren't required to
               | participate in the larger subs which may well be "an echo
               | chamber" because they were started for a specific
               | interest and you either are into that or not and if not,
               | it's not really the place for you.
               | 
               | I don't think you need to be fighty and actively oppose
               | every single "popular" opinion to provide a different
               | take. I say a lot of unpopular things on HN and, so far,
               | they haven't banned me.
               | 
               | I'm older than I used to be. I'm more inclined to pick my
               | battles and I have a different understanding of how to
               | introduce other ideas. If you do it right, you can get
               | taken seriously sometimes though it's a slow process and
               | not for the innately impatient or the folks looking to
               | grab karma or the folks wanting to make a splash.
        
               | Blikkentrekker wrote:
               | > _I say a lot of unpopular things on HN and, so far,
               | they haven 't banned me._
               | 
               | They certainly don't ban for opinions that would be
               | upvoted in another thread, but one will be downvoted, and
               | _H.N._ seems to limit posts to five per day to any user
               | with any recent downvoted comment.
               | 
               | Just yet I was limited because a single one of my
               | comments received a downvote, but that comment has now
               | been upvoted again, so I am no longer limited. -- This
               | does not seem like a particularly good system to me and
               | scares people from saying anything that goes against the
               | mentality in any particular thread.
               | 
               | > _I 'm older than I used to be. I'm more inclined to
               | pick my battles and I have a different understanding of
               | how to introduce other ideas. If you do it right, you can
               | get taken seriously sometimes though it's a slow process
               | and not for the innately impatient or the folks looking
               | to grab karma or the folks wanting to make a splash._
               | 
               | There are certainly strategies and diplomatic tactics
               | that can aid one, but I do not feel one should need to do
               | so if absence of such would leave one upvoted in another
               | thread depending on what way they mentality of the thread
               | swings, which is of course vicious, since this system
               | further diminishes dissent.
        
               | DoreenMichele wrote:
               | _seems to limit posts to five per day to any user with
               | any recent downvoted comment._
               | 
               | I seriously doubt this is true.
               | 
               | I generally stand by my right to my opinion. I have
               | worked at figuring out how to do that without making
               | every single comment a hill to die on. It's taken time
               | and effort. I used to be a walking, talking train wreck
               | waiting to happen and I still have personal challenges to
               | being me and not being overwhelming amounts of drama for
               | existing.
               | 
               | I don't like drama. Accusations that I say and do things
               | for dramatic effect or similar are inaccurate
               | understandings of who I am and what motivates me.
               | 
               | I view HN as an opportunity for growth. I have had the
               | experience of feeling like "a big fish in a little pond"
               | and I generally gate it.
               | 
               | I enjoyed being here at first because I was a little fish
               | in a big pond and was free to just enjoy the opportunity
               | to engage in meaty discussion. And then that turned into
               | drama and I began trying to figure out why and yadda.
               | 
               | These days, it's less drama than it used to be. I'm still
               | trying to find my sea legs here with no effective role
               | models, but I still prefer to see it first and foremost
               | as an opportunity to engage in meaty discussion and to
               | whatever degree it still serves that function, it's life
               | enhancing.
               | 
               | Upvotes, downvotes, etc are all niggling details. The
               | opportunity to enrichment my mind without paying tuition
               | or leaving home etc is extremely valuable to me and has
               | caused me to be thick skinned about a great many things
               | for nearly twelve years now.
        
               | Blikkentrekker wrote:
               | > _I seriously doubt this is true._
               | 
               | Why do you think this is not true? This is something that
               | is quite often discussed and just happened to me.
               | 
               | One comment I made today had one downvote, and I was met
               | with the dreaded " _You 're positing too much_" message,
               | but shortly thereafter someone else upvoted it again to
               | bring it to 1 again, and I could post freely again.
               | 
               | Your opinion seems to be conditioned upon that this is
               | false, but even if it were false, votes simply have a
               | habit of scaring people into saying something others
               | might disagree with. And even _Reddit_ in a less extreme
               | fashion limits one to 1 post per hour on any subreddit
               | where one has negative total karma, which is certainly
               | less extreme, but one can very easily receive negative
               | karma for simply disagreeing and being well within
               | _Reddit_ 's rules in how one phrases such disagreement.
               | Simply going to say, _r /movies_ and saying " _I
               | disagree, I personally did not like this film at all and
               | thought it was overrated._ " too much is all it takes to
               | be limited to one post per hour on _r /movies_.
               | 
               | > _Upvotes, downvotes, etc are all niggling details. The
               | opportunity to enrichment my mind without paying tuition
               | or leaving home etc is extremely valuable to me and has
               | caused me to be thick skinned about a great many things
               | for nearly twelve years now._
               | 
               | Even if these websites did not limit one in any way for
               | being downvoted, they still give visibility based on
               | upvotes, and the psychological effect on others is real,
               | which leads to such places slowly but surely becoming a
               | monoculture which attract more and more users that simply
               | desire an echo-chamber which will lead to more and more
               | users that do not like it, or simply desire a different
               | ech-chamber, to leave.
               | 
               | A real problem I have with _r /manga_ on _Reddit_ is that
               | really only one specific _genre_ is read and discussed
               | there, because all threads about anything else obtain no
               | visibility due to the voting system, the _genre_ is
               | controversial in most other paces, but anyone who
               | criticizes it there is downvoted.
        
               | DoreenMichele wrote:
               | You come on really strong. You and I have tangled before
               | and you assumed the worst about me and yadda.
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26622148
               | 
               | I've been here a lot of years. I was rate limited at one
               | time. I'm not currently.
               | 
               | I framed that very carefully as my opinion and not an
               | assertion of fact.
               | 
               | It's possible to be Dutch and strongly opinionated on HN
               | and in good standing (not rate limited).
               | 
               | Maybe you are right and I'm wrong. It ain't no big thing.
               | I'm not trying to win an argument here. I'm just making
               | conversation and trying to be helpful, which is something
               | of a bad habit of mine and habits die hard.
               | 
               | (Shrug)
               | 
               | You have a good day.
        
             | blooalien wrote:
             | > "I've certainly noticed quite a bit on H.N., and even
             | more so on Reddit that upvoted threads with sensationalist
             | headlines are more heavily scrutinized in the comments for
             | being misleading."
             | 
             | Exactly why I read the comments _before_ I click the link
             | to the article, and why I 'll read the article (assuming
             | the comments give me a valid reason to) before commenting
             | about it. ;)
        
             | all2 wrote:
             | dang,
             | 
             | Could we try "influence" boosting posts? Some kind of
             | combination of "this person has X karma, commented on Y
             | post, that yields the same result as upvoting in Z fashion"
             | and normal upvotes?
             | 
             | I don't know that this would solve the above described
             | problem (and it will likely introduce other issues in the
             | social fabric of HN), but it might be interesting to see
             | the outcome...
        
               | tomatotomato37 wrote:
               | That feels like it would just turn into some type of
               | toxic popularity contest where prominent posters that get
               | a lot of engagement get boosted to the top, irregardless
               | of the actual quality of said engagement. In addition it
               | may also create some type of gatekeeping effect, though
               | in my opinion that's not exactly a bad thing for niche
               | communities such as this.
        
               | batch12 wrote:
               | You could use the API to get historical posts and
               | comments and run the numbers to get a taste of the
               | outcome instead of testing on the live site.
        
               | Blikkentrekker wrote:
               | I personally think the best way to rank posts is by
               | simple activity myself, the system that _DeviantArt_
               | uses, a simple recursive algorithm where the top post is
               | the one that had a reply in one of it 's children of the
               | same level twice, but the tree is maintained.
               | 
               | So say we have a these posts:                   A
               | - B         - C         - - D         E         - F
               | - - G         - H
               | 
               | Say that a new post, I, be made, which is a reply to H,
               | then after that the tree would appear so:
               | E         - H         - - I         - F         - - G
               | A         - B         - C         - - D
               | 
               | By replying to H, I has now pushed H to be the top child
               | of E, and also pushed E above A.
               | 
               | This results into posts whose children have the most
               | activity statistically are more visible, but if an
               | inactive post be replied to, it will briefly be at the
               | top and more visible, and any new post will also start at
               | the top.
               | 
               | Essentially, it is the treed evolution of the traditional
               | linear thread system where threads are simply ranked
               | based on most recent replied. _DeviantArt_ uses this
               | system and it 's boards do not feel as though they be an
               | echo-chamber and are full of people challenging each
               | other's views and trees seem to be more balanced out
               | rather than al replies being under the top post, which
               | became the most visible due to upvotes such that others
               | are ignored completely.
        
               | jimmygrapes wrote:
               | This seems identical to futaba/chan-style "bumping" which
               | is imo easily gamed without having some other variable
               | (logarithmic time fall off or something) AND (has
               | significant spam protection OR has significant
               | moderation/user reporting system). It is usually paired
               | with a post limit as well, so that eventually old
               | conversations fall off and disappear and/or get archived.
        
               | Blikkentrekker wrote:
               | Most traditional forums never had a timer system, and it
               | did not seem to be needed.
               | 
               | It indeed resulted in some threads being alive for
               | months, but that was only because the discussion in it
               | was healthy and interesting, and new input on the same
               | subject continued to be had.
               | 
               | They typically also do not have an archival system and
               | often praefer that one revive an old thread that was dead
               | for years rather than make a new one on the same subject,
               | as in doing so all the old content becomes visible again
               | for a fresh perspective.
               | 
               | I agree that often it is quite interesting to receive new
               | replies with new input to a thread that died off three
               | years ago.
               | 
               | I am not seeing these fora being gamed at all: in order
               | to game them, one must provide content interesting enough
               | to draw replies. -- Visibility is purely a function of
               | the number of replies, not of agreement.
        
               | all2 wrote:
               | I like the simplicity of it, but it could very easily be
               | a victim of "forum sliding", where new posts are made
               | with the purpose of moving undesirable topics out of
               | sight.
        
               | Blikkentrekker wrote:
               | It's possible, but they would be spam and dealt with, and
               | I do not see this problem on _DeviantArt_ at all.
        
           | Lammy wrote:
           | > Twitter is something special where it's the craziest and
           | loudest 0.01%
           | 
           | > all JS related discourse moved to Twitter
           | 
           | The jokes write themselves at this point :v
        
           | rektide wrote:
           | > It's so sad because all JS related discourse moved to
           | Twitter at some point so I keep trying to make it work, but
           | have to keep quitting for my sanity's sake.
           | 
           | Imo there haven't been any competing attempts. There's been
           | nothing remotely as interesting or viable as a system for
           | many broad discussions about JS to happen. The ability for
           | someone to take an old post, staple a new opinion on top, &
           | retweet it, and for anyone to engage with it as they like is
           | pretty unsurpassed. Nothing remotely comes close. Everywhere
           | else on the planet, once a thread is 2 months old it's dead,
           | never to be seen again. Relying on individual people to be
           | the relays, the beacons in the conversation was a huge plus,
           | something exceedingly unique & powerful & special about
           | Twitter that nothing else comes close to capturing.
           | 
           | I've been off twitter semi-involuntarily for a year now. I
           | still think the network of people model is incredible. But
           | also, JS Twitter had been in bad decay for a number of years.
           | There's problems & problematic issues, but to me, the
           | defining problem was that there was much less interesting
           | stuff to talk about. We are way latter in the game, everyone
           | seemingly works for gigantic humungo corporations closed-
           | source systems. There's way way more stuff that just works,
           | way more really good libraries. And there's way way less
           | inter-action among the different tech-stacks. Where-as before
           | JS Twitter made sense, now the massive audience is pretty
           | heavily divided into various stack pieces. There are some
           | general-JS tweetings that happen but the common thread is the
           | slowest, least interesting part of JS & JS Twitter & what it
           | was, which was more cross-ranging & examining of new ideas.
           | 
           | JS left college, got a job, got boring.
        
         | tunesmith wrote:
         | What do you use to check news every day?
        
           | underseacables wrote:
           | Hckrnews.com
        
           | sys_64738 wrote:
           | Add RSS feeds for news sites to inoreader.
        
           | iliekcomputers wrote:
           | Taking a step back, do we really _need_ to check news every
           | day? I read The Economist which is weekly, and I haven't felt
           | like I'm uninformed much.
        
             | tomjen3 wrote:
             | I didn't need to before Covid, but our government decided
             | that it was okay to change rules (drastically), on a day-
             | to-day basis, then when they got called out for changing
             | them with less than 24 hour warning, decided that 48 hours
             | was fine. If you didn't follow the news, you could get
             | caught up and have to pay a not insubstantial fine, or more
             | realistically you were planning to do something that was
             | deemed safe enough some days earlier.
             | 
             | An older example: if you didn't pay attention to the news
             | on 9/11 you risked being stuck in the airport for a very
             | long time.
             | 
             | So yeah, there are situations where you do need to follow
             | the news. Not often, but two global events have happened in
             | my lifetime (3 if you count the fall of the Berlin wall)
             | where you really did need to pay attention to the news.
             | 
             | Maybe some sort of exponential back-of is warrented? Say
             | you check the news and if nothing relevant happend you
             | check in again the next day, then you skip a day, then two,
             | etc. When an event happens where you need to follow the
             | news (say a local flood), you go back to an hourly checkup.
             | 
             | The final thing I have noticed is that the news you need to
             | follow are mostly very local. What happens in other
             | countries is, relatively speaking, of no importance to you.
        
             | ptk wrote:
             | This is me too. And the me of 2 years ago would have been
             | aghast about that. But I now finding myself missing pretty
             | major news cycles regularly because eventually you learn to
             | trust the fact that you can "catch up" at any point in
             | time. I've really enjoyed letting news happen and not
             | getting caught up in the immediacy of it.
        
             | throwawayboise wrote:
             | I've stopped. I check my local news, I still read HN daily,
             | but I don't watch or read any TV or national news. 99.9% of
             | it has zero impact on my day-to-day life.
        
             | Torwald wrote:
             | We don't have to check news everyday, but on that day when
             | the BIG news hit, you want to be there and soon enough.
        
               | TheAdamAndChe wrote:
               | If it's that important, either I'll get an emergency
               | broadcast text or it won't be televised. Otherwise, a
               | family member will call me or I'll hear about it from
               | other people.
        
               | DashAnimal wrote:
               | What would you say were the big news hits of the last
               | year? Also why do you need to be there soon enough?
               | 
               | Reflecting for myself, I used to feel the same way, but
               | quit news about 6 months ago and have never felt happier.
               | No longer am I sinking valuable hours into something that
               | didn't bring me happiness or help me better myself.
        
             | all2 wrote:
             | Replying to throwawayboise:
             | 
             | I've done the same exact thing.
             | 
             | I find very little usefulness in the national and
             | international posturing, blaming, and virtue signaling that
             | makes up most broadcast, cable, and print news.
        
           | coffeefirst wrote:
           | Anything curated and not subject to engagement algorithms.
           | Every publication has a newsletter, or you can just check
           | their websites directly once per day.
        
           | tehjoker wrote:
           | wsws.org
        
           | handrous wrote:
           | Outside those who perform certain uncommon jobs, paying
           | attention to non-local news more frequent than quarterly, at
           | most, isn't of much more value than keeping up with a soap
           | opera, or a reality singing competition, or reading tabloids.
           | It's a low-value entertainment pastime. Fine in the same way
           | those other things are, but not more laudable. People trick
           | themselves, or get tricked, into thinking keeping up day-to-
           | day or week-to-week matters and that doing so is somehow
           | improving, but it doesn't and it's not. The time would almost
           | always be better spent--if being better-informed or a better
           | citizen or whatever is the intended outcome--reading a book.
           | 
           | That's even more true when the news takes the form of
           | something like Twitter.
           | 
           | If you enjoy it, keep it up, but don't think it somehow
           | capital-M Matters.
        
             | AlexCoventry wrote:
             | I don't know; I had concrete plans to quickly leave the US
             | if Trump had actually retained the presidency after losing
             | the election. I think it would have been a smart move, and
             | wouldn't have been possible without close attention to the
             | news.
             | 
             | One of the nice things about Biden's presidency is how much
             | less attention the news seems to merit, these days.
        
               | handrous wrote:
               | The thing about "there's been an actual, successful coup
               | in the world's (for now) only superpower" or anything
               | similarly unusual is that it tends to break through
               | simple disregard for the news in a hurry. Something like
               | that seems to happen once a decade, or maybe once every
               | five years at most, and are of the "say granddad, where
               | were you when..." variety. Even the studious news-
               | avoiders might wish to watch history unfold, and even
               | they will rarely miss it unless they actively _try_ to,
               | given how _everywhere_ information is now.
               | 
               | Meanwhile, did you find any of the Trump-related news for
               | those four years (hell, over five, really, counting the
               | election) particularly actionable, in an "I really needed
               | to know that right this minute" sort of way? I kept up
               | with all of it (it _was_ entertaining, for sure) but
               | never did, personally. Even CDC guidance and such during
               | the pandemic filtered down to state and local ordinances
               | by the time they mattered much. Mask mandates quickly
               | resulted in posters at store entrances, and most provided
               | free or cheap masks, especially at first, so there was
               | little likelihood of being caught out there. I
               | anticipated panic-shortages before the news caught on
               | when I saw a way-above-normal number of household paper
               | products in shopping carts at the local bulk store-by the
               | time it was in the news or became a meme a few days
               | later, the shortages were already a problem. Some help
               | that would have been--and realistically, we 'd have
               | probably been OK if we'd been affected by them, we'd have
               | figured something out with only very little
               | inconvenience. Regardless, even a news-avoider would have
               | realized that they should maybe pop in slightly more
               | often than usual to see what's up, specifically, with the
               | whole pandemic thing, well before it had much effect in
               | the US.
               | 
               | Most big stories still don't actually _matter_. Pulse
               | nightclub shooting, or the one in Vegas, or the Boston
               | Marathon bombers? Quick news mattered-- _locally_. Living
               | several states away, I could have found out a month later
               | and it 'd have made no difference. Assange extradited, US
               | pulling out of Afghanistan--US _invading_ Afghanistan,
               | for that matter? Russia invades Ukraine? Brexit? Libyan
               | revolution?  "Immigrant caravans"? I care because I'm a
               | bit of a politics and news junkie, but if I'd ignored
               | those the harm to my life would have been zero. They're
               | not local events, for me, and they're just not _that_
               | important to my day-to-day life. I could have found out
               | about Brexit a year after the vote, would have made no
               | difference (there 's a joke in there about how long that
               | process has taken).
               | 
               | 9/11 disrupted air travel and phone service nationwide,
               | but was of the rare "you could hardly miss it" variety so
               | one was unlikely to encounter those problems before
               | becoming aware of it.
               | 
               | I'm actually having trouble thinking of another event in
               | the last 30+ years, in the US, that wasn't local and that
               | had a "light cone", if you will, of actual effects on my
               | life that hit in less than a week, and for which
               | foreknowledge was in any way actionable. Typically, they
               | never "hit". If they do, then finding out when that
               | happens is just as good.
        
           | tolbish wrote:
           | Public radio. For example, here is Chicago's local version:
           | https://www.wbez.org/
        
           | rodamaral wrote:
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/
        
           | leesalminen wrote:
           | News.Google.com for a max of 30 minutes per day.
        
         | Blikkentrekker wrote:
         | I think a big thing is that _Twitter_ can often repraesent
         | itself as though what many outside of it call " _Twitter_
         | views" are more mainstream than they are.
         | 
         |  _4chan_ , for instance, also comes with rather _niche_ views,
         | but does not attempt to convince one that it 's views are
         | anything but niche.
         | 
         | Being immersed in _Twitter_ , and many other websites known to
         | create "filter bubbles", eventually might make one believe it
         | is the mainstream.
         | 
         | In fact, it is not so dissimilar from how I think U.S.A.
         | culture works; it is often noted how often inhabitants inside
         | of it loose perspective of how idiosyncratic U.S.A. cultural
         | memes are nothing more than that, as the people there often
         | phrase them as though they be of a more global, even timeless
         | nature.
        
       | i_haz_rabies wrote:
       | Caitlin Flanagan is one of the most entertaining writers around.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | throwaway98797 wrote:
       | Curate aggressively.
       | 
       | A gun is dangerous. Twitter is dangerous.
       | 
       | Both are useful if used appropriately with the right training and
       | safeguards.
        
         | brink wrote:
         | A gun won't actively bait you into fights.
        
           | jgerrish wrote:
           | Such a sad outcome for something that could have been magical
           | together.
           | 
           | I was there in the Usenet days, and it was beautiful. I was
           | there when Compuserve and Prodigy and Mozilla burst forth.
           | 
           | It's not the platform though.
           | 
           | We're seeing a retelling of the Eternal September story, and
           | it's sad. Yeah, some historical context will be passed on,
           | reframed for the new century. But there's a core philosophy
           | that will never be "recovered." Because it didn't truly arise
           | from sharing.
           | 
           | It's right there in the name.
           | 
           | Beware the tempers wasn't part of the original dream.
        
             | wutbrodo wrote:
             | As you allude to, this is a very straightforward
             | phenomenon. The founding population of the Internet is not
             | identical in distribution to the population that now exists
             | on it. Most people are small and vicious and incredibly
             | stupid, and now the population of the Internet[1] looks
             | more like "most people" than it did in its early days.
             | 
             | There's practically nothing to see here. If a bunch of
             | chimpanzees join a club, it's not that interesting to note
             | that there's suddenly shit being flung everywhere.
             | 
             | EDIT: just to be 3000% clear, given the current obsession
             | with the topic, my comment and use of "chimps" has less
             | than nothing to do with race. It's a reference to our
             | entire species' primate past and the tendency to
             | underestimate our similarity to those ancestors.
             | 
             | [1] Limit this to the developed world if you'd like.
             | Countries that came online much more rapidly and recently,
             | and continue to have large portions of the population come
             | online every day, are dealing with a different but related
             | set of problems.
        
         | whywhywhywhy wrote:
         | It doesn't matter how agressive your filtering is, it doesn't
         | matter how many accounts you mute, it doesn't matter how many
         | words you block.
         | 
         | It'll still seep through the cracks because that's what Twitter
         | wants.
         | 
         | I got to the point of 1000+ accounts and 1000+ words muted and
         | it's still a bad place. To Twitter it is more valuable to them
         | that I have to hear about the issues Twitter considers
         | important than for me to have a healthy Twitter feed.
         | 
         | A global "Politics on/off" switch is 100% possible and they
         | choose not to do it because they consider it more important for
         | the world that I hear the correct politics than be able to just
         | hear none.
        
           | throwaway98797 wrote:
           | I follow 50 people with only a couple active posters.
           | 
           | I agree that stuff gets in. It is a trade off.
           | 
           | maybe i should try third party apps vs fighting twitters
           | algos.
        
         | altano wrote:
         | This is exactly the problem: Twitter, unlike other platforms
         | like Reddit and even Facebook, make curation impossible.
         | 
         | Want to follow someone who posts a lot of interesting things
         | about JS? Be prepared to see posts they like about curry
         | poodles. Oh here's some worst-in-class topic recommendations
         | barfed out by depressed ML, and you can't turn them off. What
         | do you mean you don't like Roseanne Nostalgia? Here are some
         | Binky The Clown Stock Tips.
        
           | dewey wrote:
           | > make curation impossible
           | 
           | You can just use any of the numerous third party clients that
           | have a sorted timeline and don't inject random posts in your
           | timeline.
        
           | rand0mx1 wrote:
           | you can choose latest tweets, no recommendations from ai
        
           | syshum wrote:
           | Ironically Google's platform in their "circles" where an
           | attempt (kinda) to solve that problem.
           | 
           | All social media should be topic, not user based IMO. This is
           | the way the internet was originally, it was not really
           | personality, or people based. you joined a forum about
           | fishing, woodworking, programming, or politics to engage with
           | other people on those topics. Off Topic things where either
           | isolated to a specific area of the community or banned
           | completely.
           | 
           | Today however we do not see to have topics on social media is
           | it just a stream of everything about a person...
        
       | fruityrudy wrote:
       | For tech it's very important for staying up to date. There is a
       | lot of content there that is not elsewhere.
       | 
       | The best strategy is to block keywords to avoid all the social
       | justice and politics. I just wished they allowed blocking more
       | than 200 words.
        
       | u678u wrote:
       | I've gone in a cycle through different Social Media sites, after
       | a year or so I manage to get the strength to leave but usually
       | end up on a different site.
       | 
       | One thing is I always delete my account after 3-6 months and
       | create a new one, following different people/groups etc.
        
       | elliekelly wrote:
       | I was hoping the article would end with the author deleting her
       | twitter account altogether but it seems she recently "straw-
       | tweeted" a link to this article:
       | https://mobile.twitter.com/CaitlinPacific/status/14120919506...
        
         | wizzwizz4 wrote:
         | I suspect she thought it'd be more helpful to share that with
         | Twitter users than delete her account. (But I do share the
         | sentiment - why keep an account with a system that's doing you
         | harm?)
        
       | underseacables wrote:
       | Actual title: You Really Need to Quit Twitter
       | 
       | Not that I disagree, but it is a rule
        
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