[HN Gopher] The stock market speaks: How Dr. Alchian learned to ...
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       The stock market speaks: How Dr. Alchian learned to build the bomb
       (2014)
        
       Author : mmarq
       Score  : 74 points
       Date   : 2021-07-01 09:52 UTC (4 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.sciencedirect.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.sciencedirect.com)
        
       | URSpider94 wrote:
       | This reminds me of Neal Stephenson's "Cryptonomicon". One of the
       | themes, and I have no idea if it really happened, is that
       | mathematicians worked with the Allied armed forces to bury the
       | signals of their future actions. They end up doing things like
       | launching fake paratrooper landings in Norway to cover the signs
       | of the impending D-Day attack - all mathematically calculated to
       | generate maximum entropy.
       | 
       | My second thought : I'm a little surprised that the use of
       | lithium in nuclear weapons represented enough of an increase in
       | the total demand to boost the stock price that much.
        
         | wolfram74 wrote:
         | neal stephenson is no slouch, a lot of cryptonomicon is non-
         | fiction
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra#Safeguarding_of_sources
        
         | zitterbewegung wrote:
         | At that time lithium could have been rarely used and expensive
         | to mine. Although right now lithium I has high demand so it
         | could have gone under the radar due to volume of transactions.
        
       | thedudeabides5 wrote:
       | Love how the sophisticated mathematical test was "oh man, that
       | lithium stock is roofing"
       | 
       | Sometimes it's takes a human looking at a chart to see what a
       | million tables of data can't
        
         | pedrocr wrote:
         | The recent Pfizer phase 3 data was like that:
         | 
         | https://xkcd.com/2400/
        
       | MarkusWandel wrote:
       | I don't get it. If there's a blanket of total secrecy, then why
       | does the company who makes the secret fuel have its stock price
       | boosted so much? Obviously the information already leaked - to
       | the people buying the stock! - before the increase of the stock
       | price caused further attention.
        
         | dboreham wrote:
         | This is the subject of the paper. People were clearly "insider
         | trading" although probably they didn't have to leak much
         | information just "based on defense purchasing I think it would
         | be a good idea for you to buy stock xxx".
        
       | cs702 wrote:
       | Worth the read. The quote from Dr. Alchian, as he relates the
       | story of his 1954 paper, is priceless:
       | 
       | "We knew they were developing this H-bomb, but we wanted to know,
       | what's in it? What's the fissile material? Well there's thorium,
       | thallium, beryllium, and something else, and we asked Herman Kahn
       | and he said, 'Can't tell you'... I said, 'I'll find out', so I
       | went down to the RAND library and had them get for me the US
       | Government's Dept. of Commerce Yearbook which has items on every
       | industry by product, so I went through and looked up thorium, who
       | makes it, looked up beryllium, who makes it, looked them all up,
       | took me about 10 minutes to do it, and got them. There were about
       | five companies, five of these things, and then I called Dean
       | Witter... they had the names of the companies also making these
       | things, 'Look up for me the price of these companies...' and here
       | were these four or five stocks going like this, and then about, I
       | think it was September, this was now around October, one of them
       | started to go like that, from $2 to around $10, the rest were
       | going like this, so I thought 'Well, that's interesting'... I
       | wrote it up and distributed it around the social science group
       | the next day. I got a phone call from the head of RAND calling me
       | in, nice guy, knew him well, he said 'Armen, we've got to
       | suppress this'... I said 'Yes, sir', and I took it and put it
       | away, and that was the first event study. Anyway, it made my
       | reputation among a lot of the engineers at RAND."
        
         | sandworm101 wrote:
         | This is from the early days of modern operational security.
         | This would be far more difficult today. If only the bomb makers
         | had talked to the ketchup people at Heinz. Rumor has it that
         | Heinz regularly purchases extra ingredients, disposing of the
         | extra bits on site, so that nobody can infer their secret
         | recipes by counting what goes into the factory. Given the
         | security budget for protecting nukes, it should have been
         | simple to double-order both lithium and thorium.
        
           | mcguire wrote:
           | Are you saying modern defense contractors artificially
           | depress their stock prices in the name of opsec?
        
             | trhway wrote:
             | no. what he seems to be saying is that modern defense
             | contractors waste a lot in order to hide their true
             | activity/product.
        
             | sandworm101 wrote:
             | No. If your magic superweapon needs a small amount of red
             | fairy dust and there is only one person making the red
             | dust, it is a good idea to also buy some blue dust to
             | conceal which type is the necessary ingredient. Nobody
             | depresses any stock price, rather you give some false
             | business to another source too.
        
               | dkarl wrote:
               | Cold War business idea, half a century too late:
               | manufacture a cheap, unremarkable substance and sell it
               | at an extremely high price to the U.S. government, to
               | confuse Soviet intelligence. Shroud the production in
               | secrecy and compartmentalize knowledge of the
               | manufacturing process, so that everybody involved in
               | production thinks that in a different section of the
               | plant something secret is being done to create an end
               | product that is special and useful in some way, but in
               | reality you're creating exactly the cheap, boring stuff
               | you say you are. The government could drive truckloads of
               | it into nuclear weapons production facilities, shuffle it
               | around from one warehouse to another, and eventually
               | relabel it as waste.
        
               | secfirstmd wrote:
               | Woah IBM would be perfect for this kind of thing... :)
        
               | gwern wrote:
               | Sounds more or less like red mercury.
        
               | whall6 wrote:
               | Putting a target on your back for some lucre
        
               | mannykannot wrote:
               | This certainly looks like good practice to me, but it
               | could be undone by insider trading, which could ignore
               | the blue dust supply chain. The article flirts with the
               | possibility of there having been insider trading here,
               | but does not seem to come to any definite conclusions.
               | Given the weaker reporting rules of those days, it may be
               | impossible to say.
        
             | secfirstmd wrote:
             | I've always felt the F-35 would be the perfect program is
             | hide away a few extra black projects. Obviously their is a
             | known black budget but let's be honest, that's not
             | everything.
        
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