[HN Gopher] Custom domain names are coming to iCloud mail with i...
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       Custom domain names are coming to iCloud mail with iCloud+
        
       Author : blacktulip
       Score  : 70 points
       Date   : 2021-07-03 14:18 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (9to5mac.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (9to5mac.com)
        
       | bredren wrote:
       | This is great news. My question is how good will the web
       | applications be to replace the rest of gsuite.
       | 
       | And while I am hoping to switch to Apple Mail on my Mac w the new
       | MacOs, I kinda need a web application as fast and swifty as gmail
       | for search.
       | 
       | My concern would be that Apple keeps sticking with the UX of
       | their Numbers and Pages applications which have never sat well
       | with me. I want them to do a copy of word or docs and excel or
       | sheets.
       | 
       | I need a web version of Google docs and sheets that is as good or
       | superior to what gsuite has. Numbers and Pages are not it.
        
         | cunthorpe wrote:
         | The two are not exclusive. You can have Apple handle your mail
         | and Google everything else. If anything, splitting mail from
         | "stuff" is a smart move nowadays. Not everything needs to be
         | under one roof.
        
       | AnonC wrote:
       | Custom domain support and the new iCloud relay (though it's
       | primarily for Safari right now) could really make users in the
       | free iCloud tier switch to the paid iCloud+ service. It's a very
       | nice strategy, IMO.
       | 
       | > There's no word on if this will require Family Sharing or if
       | you'd have the ability to invite others outside of your family
       | that have not been added to your Apple Family configuration.
       | 
       | My guess is that this will be rolled out as part of family
       | sharing to keep it simple (at least for Apple).
       | 
       | > Of course, this announcement could eventually pave the way for
       | Apple to offer business and school email over iCloud as a direct
       | competitor to Google and Microsoft.
       | 
       | I strongly doubt that. I don't think Apple would get into this
       | space anytime soon. If it did, then it could be as a complete
       | online office suite combined with email.
        
         | nceqs3 wrote:
         | I bet that Icloud relay will eventually function the same as a
         | VPN allowing all internet traffic to flow through it. The beta
         | is pretty buggy right now though.
        
       | slartibardfast0 wrote:
       | really hope they make this available with a simple authorization
       | (& if needed, billing) for non-family share folks.
       | 
       | I'm one of many families that share a tld much more widely than
       | any 'family sharing' group could accommodate, up to and including
       | acquaintances from the internet.
        
       | mark_l_watson wrote:
       | I hope that they do this right.
       | 
       | I am happy with ProtonMail, but since so few people use
       | ProtonMail, the end to end encryption features is not that
       | valuable. With some reservations, I mostly trust Apple, and it
       | would be good having another privacy preserving email option.
        
         | decrypt wrote:
         | In the same boat. Happy paying ProtonMail customer at the
         | moment but doesn't serve much value as none of my contacts are
         | ProtonMail users. I see email as an insecure communication
         | medium anyway, so moving to iCloud+ seems like a good idea.
         | Also a Migadu user, but all domains on their micro plan (limit
         | of 5) are used up at the moment.
        
           | headmelted wrote:
           | I'd be happier to stuff e-mail in the bin wholesale. It's a
           | _terrible_ technology that should have been put to rest years
           | ago - like phone networks. Any system that requires you to
           | grant all permissions to all contacts, irrevocably in
           | perpetuity, is garbage.
           | 
           | Ideally I should be able to generate for you a single GUID
           | when we meet (e.g. by a QR code).
           | 
           | I should be able to grant a privilege to you for
           | calling/texting/mailing me. You can call me with it, you can
           | message me, you can mail me - but you never get any other
           | info through that system (nor do I for you).
           | 
           | If I ever want to be done with you I delete the GUID and the
           | operator removes the link and declares the GUID out of
           | service.
           | 
           | How has Apple and/or Google not already built this?
           | 
           | Should stalking victims really be forced to uproot every part
           | of their digital life to get rid of creeps or spammers? It's
           | ridiculous in 2021 that this isn't standard.
        
             | IfOnlyYouKnew wrote:
             | Apple has already built that. They offer random forward
             | addresses for email form fields and in a list you can
             | manually pick from for real-life interactions.
             | 
             | And I think you may be overdoing the contrariness. E-Mail
             | is one of the few open standards still existing, and with
             | the advances of spam filters, it is really not that bad.
        
               | headmelted wrote:
               | Hide My Email works as a proxy for e-mails, and I really
               | like it, but moreso for privacy than spam.
               | 
               | If you have my e-mail address, then you have a means to
               | contact me - even if I don't want you to.
               | 
               | Sure, I can block you, I can ignore you or I can trust
               | that my spam filter will catch your e-mails, but what if
               | you're malicious? You can circulate my e-mail to any
               | number of spam lists that I'll have to receive rubbish
               | from in perpetuity.
               | 
               | HME works for that, but I'm still stuck giving the same
               | phone number to everyone. Phone numbers are even worse in
               | that I can't just ignore a call from you (save for
               | declining all calls from withheld or unknown numbers, at
               | which point my phone could be likewise getting called
               | constantly if you were maliciously circulating my
               | details).
               | 
               | The notion that the means by which _I_ contact you is the
               | same as how your friend John or cousin Sarah or even your
               | parent /kids/spouse contacts you is insane.
               | 
               | We have two systems where _you_ need to arrange with
               | everyone _you_ know to use new details because one single
               | person that had your details is being nasty. And you'll
               | have to do it all again if they find out your new ones.
               | 
               | It's not at all how you would design a communication
               | system if you were to start over.
               | 
               | Something like Hide My Phone Number would be a _big_
               | help, but wouldn't work with the existing phone network
               | as you'd need to make far longer phone numbers than the
               | standards support (essentially a number for Apple /Google
               | then a routing GUID for the contact if you wanted to
               | built it on top of the phone network).
               | 
               | I'd like to see Apple and Google make a standard to push
               | to replace phone numbers with something like this that
               | can sit inside the dialer so it'll handle it
               | transparently as if it were a normal call.
        
         | deregulateMed wrote:
         | Why would you Trust Apple? They are known to bend to the US
         | government (PRISM) and China. Not to mention their denial of
         | multiple hardware issues over the last few decades (butterfly
         | keyboard / iPhone signal)
         | 
         | I'm not saying Google or Yahoo is better, I'm saying that it
         | sounds silly to say you Trust Apple.
        
           | Razengan wrote:
           | Does the concept of "the lesser evil" mean anything to you?
           | 
           | Also, in practice, Apple offers objectively much better
           | privacy than Microsoft or Google do. For example, for over a
           | decade now, iCloud Mail aliases let you have completely
           | different addresses tied to your login, instead of exposing
           | your primary address like
           | YourRealAddress+UselessAlias@gmail.com
        
             | deregulateMed wrote:
             | I'd be careful not to fall for marketing. I'm not actually
             | sure Apple is better than Microsoft. Sure Apple spends
             | money on advertising to say this, but Snowden had to catch
             | Apple to find out they were giving away your emails to the
             | government.
             | 
             | Does Apple have better security than Microsoft? They
             | advertise that too, but every other week there's a Apple 0
             | day exploit.
             | 
             | Does Apple make you "Think different"? But make everyone
             | conform to the same apps, web browser, hardware, etc....
             | 
             | I'd be extremely careful not to take marketing/psychology
             | tricks as fact.
        
           | mthoms wrote:
           | They said they "mostly" trust Apple.
        
           | mark_l_watson wrote:
           | Fair question. No corporation (usually) does anything because
           | it is the right thing to do. Where is their profit motive?
           | For Apple, I think that they have jumped on the privacy
           | bandwagon. Yes, they caved to the Chinese government, but not
           | so much to the US government.
        
             | deregulateMed wrote:
             | Check out PRISM. Apple has been caught working with the US
             | government to provide mass surveillance data.
             | 
             | You've probably heard of Edward Snowden, this is what he
             | uncovered.
             | 
             | And yeah for profit corporations make money. Its unethical
             | to advertise privacy and do the opposite.
        
           | seaghost wrote:
           | At least they'll not sell ads based on contents of my emails.
        
             | deregulateMed wrote:
             | I find it a bit odd that creepy toothpaste advertising is a
             | greater sin than providing your thoughts and dreams and
             | sexual behavior to a dictatorship and "Democratic" empire.
             | 
             | Maybe this is the human brain trying to rationalize your
             | past behavior in speech and it just sounds silly.
        
               | AnonHP wrote:
               | You didn't mention any other companies in your PRISM
               | companies. The others shared data for PRISM AND have been
               | profiling people and selling or sharing their behavioral
               | data.
        
         | headmelted wrote:
         | _Another privacy preserving email option_
         | 
         | Wouldn't this utterly undermine the privacy features in Hide My
         | Email?
         | 
         | Example: If my e-mail addresses are me@mailboxman.com and
         | ghj5628@mailboxman.com then combining my MX records with the
         | domain name yields my identity (or at least a very close
         | contact) across all of the proxy e-mails I use for privacy.
         | 
         | It's essentially offering an easy way to unmask email.
        
           | bnj wrote:
           | It would make sense to me if hide my email continued to
           | generate a random iCloud address and it redirected to your
           | custom domain email. I doubt they would create a random email
           | at the custom domain, for exactly this reason.
        
       | jdgoesmarching wrote:
       | Hope this doesn't suck so I can stop paying Google for a gsuite
       | account that gives me less consumer features than a free account.
       | 
       | I'm aware of alternatives, none really justify the switching cost
       | for me.
        
         | giancarlostoro wrote:
         | Honestly a gsuite competitor would make a solid startup if
         | anyones brave enough. Everyone complains about all the current
         | options. Its definitely a spot even I feel is missing. The only
         | real alternative is to just pay Microsoft monthly for their
         | version which is quite competitively reasonable.
        
           | robjan wrote:
           | Zoho is also an alternative but I have heard stories of
           | questionable privacy practices
        
             | xNeil wrote:
             | Any sources? Happy Zoho customer here.
        
       | hs86 wrote:
       | I don't trust them. Apple's privacy efforts might be admirable,
       | but I don't trust them to deliver a reliable service in the long
       | run, especially on platforms that aren't their own or in
       | platforms they declared as deprecated.
       | 
       | For example, most parts of iCloud are missing on Android, and
       | their iCloud client for Windows has been broken for months or
       | even years. Its log complains about launching iCloudDrive-
       | AppX.exe while the install directory doesn't contain any
       | executables with a "-AppX.exe" suffix. So no file syncing for me
       | on Windows, I guess.
       | 
       | Having client site updates tied to major macOS/iOS releases is
       | also sometimes causing strange issues if I still want to use
       | older versions of macOS and iOS.
       | 
       | The happy path is only using devices from Apple and always
       | staying on their latest OS release. No idea how attractive this
       | new feature is for people who already use custom domains because
       | they don't want to be tied to a single provider.
        
         | cunthorpe wrote:
         | To be fair they've handled email for decades so if the service
         | really sucked we'd have plenty of reports by now. I think
         | overall we're past the poor experience offered by early cloud
         | offerings by Apple. Hopefully.
        
         | bredren wrote:
         | > Apple's privacy practices might be admirable
         | 
         | This is an understatement. The company continues to set the bar
         | for security and data privacy across the entire stack.
         | 
         | RE staying within recent OS and devices for a happy path, I'm
         | already fully on board with this. I update iPhone every year
         | and my oldest machine is a 2018 MBA.
         | 
         | I think Apple does a better job supporting older equipment than
         | other companies, and deprecates mostly to make valuable pushes
         | forward.
        
           | smoldesu wrote:
           | I might have agreed with you 5 years ago, but when Apple
           | dropped support for 32-bit apps (and later x86 altogether) I
           | had to switch over to Linux.
           | 
           | If they were a little more considerate towards their power-
           | users and developers, I could probably loop a Mac in for ~60%
           | of my daily workflow. Nowadays though, I'd rather just use an
           | OS that lets me do 95% of the stuff I do without compromise.
        
             | AnonHP wrote:
             | Considering that the 64 bit transition work started with
             | what, Mac OS X Snow Leopard released in 2009, the writing
             | has been on the wall for a pretty long time that 32 bit
             | isn't the future. That Apple supported 32 bit apps through
             | macOS Mojave (which still gets security updates) is really
             | something for that company.
        
             | Terretta wrote:
             | > _dropped support for 32-bit apps and x86_
             | 
             | Just this past week:
             | 
             | https://www.macrumors.com/2021/06/30/os-x-lion-mountain-
             | lion...
             | 
             | From the article:
             | 
             |  _Apple has kept OS X 10.7 Lion and OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion
             | available for customers who have machines limited to the
             | older software, but until recently, Apple was charging
             | $19.99 to get download codes for the updates._
             | 
             |  _As of last week, these updates no longer require a fee,
             | and can be downloaded from the OS X Lion and OS X Mountain
             | Lion support documents on Apple 's website._
             | 
             |  _Mac OS X Lion is compatible with Macs that have an Intel
             | Core 2 Duo, Core i3, Core i5, Core i7, or Xeon processor, a
             | minimum of 2GB RAM, and 7GB storage space._
             | 
             |  _Mac OS X Mountain Lion is compatible with the following
             | Macs:_                   iMac (Mid 2007-2020)
             | MacBook (Late 2008 Aluminum, or Early 2009 or newer)
             | MacBook Pro (Mid/Late 2007 or newer)         MacBook Air
             | (Late 2008 or newer)         Mac mini (Early 2009 or newer)
             | Mac Pro (Early 2008 or newer)         Xserve (Early 2009)
             | 
             | How much older do power-users and developers need?
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | I don't want to run Lion or Mountain Lion though. Mojave
               | was a mostly fine OS, I would rather they make it an LTS
               | release or offer 32-bit support going forwards, but that
               | seems to be fundamentally incompatible with their new
               | target audience. Ultimately I'm not that irked since a
               | switch to Linux was long overdue for me, but it gets
               | under my skin watching Apple continue to ruin an OS that
               | used to work fine for me.
        
       | swiley wrote:
       | That's exiting. I know a number of people who use custom domains
       | but don't actually self host because they like the flexibility to
       | move between mail providers without losing their social graph.
       | 
       | It would be awesome if this became more common.
        
         | Tijdreiziger wrote:
         | I think almost nobody who uses a custom domain self-hosts. From
         | what I've heard it's very hard to get your mail delivered
         | consistently if you run a small and/or young mailserver, and
         | with the plethora of ~good, cheap mail hosts out there, there's
         | really no reason to go the self-hosting route.
        
           | ValentineC wrote:
           | > _I think almost nobody who uses a custom domain self-
           | hosts._
           | 
           | Some people I know self-host receiving emails, since the
           | largest hassle there is configuring a spam filter.
           | 
           | Most people shouldn't self-host an SMTP server to send
           | emails.
        
           | swixmix wrote:
           | I halfway self host. Incoming mail comes right to me, no
           | problem. But outgoing mail, by default, goes through a relay.
        
           | navanchauhan wrote:
           | A lot of people (including me), do self-host emails.
           | 
           | Nowadays, with software like Mail-In-A-Box, it's as easy as
           | one click install and few DNS settings.
           | 
           | Although, I do concede in some rare occasions, not everything
           | goes well.
        
           | vbezhenar wrote:
           | While I don't self host anymore, I, personally, did not have
           | problems with Gmail delivery once all things were properly
           | set up. Have no idea about other providers.
           | 
           | The thing that seems to be almost impossible to have with
           | self-hosting is iOS push.
           | 
           | What I don't like with self-hosting is that I can't really
           | self-host my mail. It'll run in VPS which kind of defeats the
           | purpose of self-hosting. I have my home server, but setting
           | up PTR record is impossible (for reasonable money) with my
           | home ISP. Also I guess that my home IP address will not have
           | good reputation.
           | 
           | And as I can't really self-host my mail, I just decided to
           | delegate it to fastmail. I had my share of fun setting up
           | postfix/dovecot/spamassassin, it was not that hard, just took
           | some time, and I don't think that it makes a lot of sense to
           | continue.
        
         | remram wrote:
         | I would love to self-host but I'm worried about losing emails.
         | I self-host many services but this is the one thing that I need
         | to be reliable (both inbound and outbound) and I can't claim to
         | understand fully (DKIM etc).
         | 
         | Redirecting emails doesn't work great though, Gmail marks a lot
         | of incoming emails as spam, I assume signatures don't match
         | after redirection.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | What would be nice is a self-host that "hides" behind Google
           | Apps or O365 thereby allowing you to change that part without
           | changing the rest of your setup.
        
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