[HN Gopher] Steve Jobs in Kyoto
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Steve Jobs in Kyoto
Author : DanielleMolloy
Score : 224 points
Date : 2021-07-01 08:49 UTC (2 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www3.nhk.or.jp)
(TXT) w3m dump (www3.nhk.or.jp)
| johnwheeler wrote:
| It always frustrates me when techies have an irreverence for
| Steve Jobs, or let his brashness overshadow the value he bestowed
| upon the world.
|
| Jobs was once asked what distinguishes the ordinary from the
| great, and he said it boils down to "taste". he also described
| his job as being "an editor".
|
| instead of adding more and more, he decided what to sacrifice and
| what to focus on making great. that's a rare quality, especially
| in tech.
| [deleted]
| sneak wrote:
| Just because his positives were rare doesn't mean we should
| ignore the fact that he was a criminal swindler who conspired
| to cheat workers as his company as well as others out of
| billions of dollars of wages.
|
| It's not like Apple or these other companies whose executives
| participated in the criminal conspiracy were struggling at the
| time, either. They could have paid the salaries required for
| retention. It was pure, unmitigated greed.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...
|
| > _The defendants are Adobe, Apple Inc., Google, Intel, Intuit,
| Pixar, Lucasfilm and eBay_
|
| Don't ever work for any of these firms, and remember that
| Schmidt and Jobs et al are thieves.
| comice wrote:
| I'm sure some don't give Jobs the credit he's due, but I'd say
| it's far more common for people to have too much reverence for
| him. You yourself here have reduced his often outrageous and
| terrible behaviour simply as "brashness".
| soperj wrote:
| He set back wages for techies for years, and was a prick to his
| family & friends (disavowing his daughter, screwing Woz out of
| money). I don't care if he was the brightest guy on earth, or
| what "value" he bestowed on the world. He wasn't a good human
| being. Same goes for Gates.
| dzhiurgis wrote:
| Gates is borderline criminal
| gridlockd wrote:
| > He wasn't a good human being
|
| Good is the enemy of great.
| rxhernandez wrote:
| I think it's convenient to give a leader all of the credit for
| what is a massive effort by a massive organization.
|
| I think it's convenient to say that a massive organization is
| doing well only because of that leader and not, at least
| occasionally, despite that leader.
|
| Moreover, a lot of educated people understand that graphs have
| incredibly complex behavior and can't be well understood from
| the "first" node a stimulus enters through and yet we are quick
| to laud Jobs for all of the successes of his network; it's like
| this insane pyramid scheme of credit attribution.
| bcantrill wrote:
| Appreciate your frustration, but you should appreciate
| something else in turn: Steve Jobs was an asshole to many, many
| people for many, many years -- and "Steve stories" abound among
| the veterans in our industry. Speaking personally, my own
| introduction to Jobs was being at a friend's house as a kid,
| and overhearing her father being absolutely screamed at by
| someone on a speaker phone in his office. I looked at her,
| alarmed -- and she explained that this was just Steve Jobs, and
| that Jobs screamed at her father frequently. Her father, it
| must be said, is Fred Ebrahimi, then CEO of Quark.[0] It took
| me many years to appreciate that he was likely being screamed
| at by Jobs -- who was then CEO of NeXT -- because Jobs
| desperately needed software for the NeXT Cube, and that
| QuarkXpress was high on the list. (And as relayed in Randall
| Stross's book on Jobs at NeXT[1], he in fact did much worse
| than scream at Ebrahimi, stooping to belittle him based on his
| national origin.)
|
| So yes, I'm afraid you are just going to have to be frustrated;
| Jobs was -- to put it generously -- complicated: his vision is
| rightfully lauded, but his conduct should broadly not serve as
| a model.
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quark_(company)
|
| [1]
| https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/226316.Steve_Jobs_the_Ne...
| johnwheeler wrote:
| I know I'll get downvoted, but who cares. I know that's
| callous but people have too much an aversion of getting
| yelled at by their bosses nowadays. That's ego and vanity.
| flitzofolov wrote:
| Your response is sad.
| johnwheeler wrote:
| Why? Would you rather know where you stand or have your
| boss put on on a performance improvement plan and
| marginalize you until you quit? Which is worse?
| reedf1 wrote:
| Kyoto and the ryokan experience is incredible. I will go for the
| rest of my life.
| suction wrote:
| I lived in Japan for three years and would always prefer a
| (classy) hotel. As would most Japanese.
| staticautomatic wrote:
| It's a really neat experience but I wouldn't go it again for
| more than a night. I hit my head on many doorways and am
| certain that if I'd stayed longer I would have eventually
| fallen through a wall.
| pazimzadeh wrote:
| > Oshima says he would even jokingly ask Jobs to name one of
| Apple's products 'Hiro.'
|
| That's not a bad alternative to 'Siri'
| glandium wrote:
| Fun fact: In Japanese there is no "Si" sound and the closest is
| "Shi", so "Siri" is pronounced "Shiri". You know what else is
| pronounced "Shiri" in Japanese? Buttocks (Kao ).
| sneak wrote:
| > _" I told him it would be impossible to enter but he said he
| might have a way," says Oshima. "He called his secretary in the
| US and ten minutes later, I got a call from the Nomura
| headquarters saying that we had a reservation for a personal
| viewing the following day."_
|
| My favorite casual Apple flex like this is the aerial screensaver
| on the Apple TV that was very obviously shot in 120fps in 4 or 8K
| (the published video is 4K) from a drone flying over an active
| LAX. (The drone's flight paths appear to be restricted to over
| the passenger terminal and taxiways, but still.)
|
| Most people would miss the significance, but very few
| organizations on Earth would be authorized to get such footage.
| nimbius wrote:
| >He might have been aware of when his life would end, since he
| passed away just one year later," says Ohnishi. "Maybe that's why
| he chose not to write the whole sentence, and only the first
| three words."
|
| This isnt a popular opinion since HN (and media) tends to deify
| Jobs, but people forget he died an ignorant death at his own
| hand. Jobs was diagnosed with a curable cancer and against all
| reason, he decided eating fruit would fix the problem.
|
| The idea that Jobs had any deep philosophical ponderance of the
| human condition or introspection on his own mortality is comical.
| fsckboy wrote:
| FTA: "Jobs' autograph now adorns the wall of Sushiiwa. It comes
| with a message: "All good things", a shortened version of the
| saying "All good things must come to an end.""
|
| > The idea that Jobs had any deep philosophical ponderance of
| the human condition or introspection on his own mortality is
| comical.
|
| seriously, tell it brother! He wrote "All good things." to a
| tasting menu in a restaurant, because he liked the sushi, not
| because he was even pondering the "all good things must come to
| an end", which btw is hackneyed and wouldn't indicate ponderous
| thoughts anyway.
|
| Elsewhere in an article it points out that in the middle of an
| omakase he asked to be served repeated toro's till he said
| "stop"... that is sooo removed from japanese culture or any
| sense of restraint or selflessness, as is his statement (FTA,
| my paraphrasal) on seeing a zen garden "I WANT THAT"
| basisword wrote:
| I've no idea whether or not it's a popular opinion but seems
| wholly unnecessary to be posting it on this article unless you
| have some special insight on Jobs medical records other than
| public speculation.
| GuB-42 wrote:
| I may be wrong but I don't think that HN deifies Steve Jobs. He
| has a reputation as a visionary but also as an asshole. He also
| is the anti-hacker and this is a website with "hacker" in its
| name. Apple makes perfect products, don't dare touch anything
| was the name of the game.
| smoldesu wrote:
| Hacker News absolutely deifies Steve Jobs. Maybe you're
| forgetting that YCombinator runs this whole gig.
| simonh wrote:
| Just read this page of comments, it's pretty typical.
| Dozens of people saying he was a nutty asshole and dozens
| of people saying he was a complex visionary. That's par for
| the course.
| techrat wrote:
| Not only was the cancer he had easily treatable had he done
| what he needed to do when it was first discovered...
|
| He also bought his way onto the top of a transplant list by
| buying a home in Tennessee... despite also knowing by this
| point that his cancer would be terminal and proper treatment
| would be too late.
|
| It doesn't take much to see how Jobs was truly an astounding
| piece of shit.
| NoahFancyson wrote:
| This is an extremely binary way of thinking
|
| You're saying it has to be one or the other:
|
| A) Against all reason, Jobs decided eating fruit would solve
| his curable cancer, or B) Jobs has some deep philosophical
| ponderance of the human condition or introspection on his own
| mortality
|
| Why can't it be both? Humans are notoriously inconsistent
| vmception wrote:
| Not to be meta contrarian but I think everyone understands his
| pattern of arrogance got the best of him with that fruit based
| diet from a nutritionist scam.
|
| The people that deify him mostly forget that actually running a
| company like him means requiring a bailout from your primary
| competitor, which means failure. _edit: ok he wasn 't there
| during that time period. A better example would be other areas
| of arrogance and not uplifting behavior._
| mlyle wrote:
| > The people that deify him mostly forget that actually
| running a company like him means requiring a bailout from
| your primary competitor, which means failure.
|
| There's plenty to criticize Jobs for, but this one doesn't
| make sense to me. Gates bailed out Apple in August 1997.
|
| Jobs departed Apple in 1985 and returned when the NeXT
| acquisition in February 1997.
|
| Do you think that the reason Apple sorely needed capital was
| primarily down to Jobs' decisions between February and
| August? Or was it some critical misstep in 1983-1984
| manifesting 13 years later?
| pram wrote:
| He wasn't even at Apple for the entire decade preceding that
| bailout. People probably 'forgot' because it's not true at
| all!
| radicaldreamer wrote:
| It's the exact opposite of the original comment... without
| Jobs and his engineering of the bailout from Gates, Apple
| would've definitely failed!
|
| He was fantastic as a founder and loyal to his original
| company when the path of least resistance would've been
| totally different.
| maverick-iceman wrote:
| > He wasn't even at Apple for the entire decade preceding
| that bailout. People probably 'forgot' because it's not
| true at all!
|
| Because he ran the company into the ground before and the
| board fired him
|
| Also people are right when they claim that Jobs rise to
| fame wouldn't have happened without the DOJ going after
| Microsoft because the powers that be were disturbed by
| Gates 160B wealth back in 1999.
|
| If the DOJ didn't go after Microsoft we now wouldn't have a
| 1400$ phone which you can't recharge while listening to
| music...Thank you Bill Clinton's DOJ!
|
| United States of Microsoft would have been a really cool
| place to live considering they are the only company which
| engineered wealth redistribution as a service. By not
| pursuing individual user piracy they found a way to have
| Fortune 500 companies subsidize the kids and the geeks of
| this world who know where to find cracked Windows and
| Office.
|
| EDIT: I will delete this comment when it reaches -5 score.
| Don't want to be shadowbanned, but the cult hivemind in
| here around people like Musk and Jobs is insufferable
| andyjohnson0 wrote:
| I'm no fan of Jobs. I think he achieved some notable but
| transient things, but I also think he was an egotist who
| treated many people badly.
|
| > he died an ignorant death at his own hand
|
| But I wonder why you say something so unkind? Is it not
| possible that he was, in the end, simply afraid and not able to
| fully face up to his mortality?
|
| As for him possessing philosophical insight, I think that is
| more likely to be something attributed to him by those who (as
| you put it) deify him.
| fundad wrote:
| We deify any rich asshole who says anything, see also Musk,
| Trump, Reagan...
| mlyle wrote:
| > The idea that Jobs had any deep philosophical ponderance of
| the human condition or introspection on his own mortality is
| comical.
|
| He was diagnosed with cancer in 2003 and goofed off avoiding
| treatment for several months.
|
| This visit was in 2010, years later, after knowing his cancer
| was probably terminal for quite some time. I think 7 years of
| thinking about it, including writing about how not properly
| treating his cancer early was a grave mistake, might be enough
| to give one some "introspection on [his] own mortality".
|
| Your sniping comment does not make much sense.
| [deleted]
| dang wrote:
| Please don't post name-calling or flamebait comments to HN, nor
| take HN threads on generic flamewar tangents, which we don't
| want here:
|
| https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
| dlvktrsh wrote:
| why is it comical though? that man achieved a lot in his life
| and died on his own terms
| throwaway675309 wrote:
| Ridiculous - he absolutely did not die on his own terms. Once
| he was aware of his diagnosis there was no way for him to die
| on his own terms, he just died.
|
| The only way you could possibly achieve the idea of "dying on
| your own terms" would be if you were in perfect health and
| then willingly decided to commit suicide.
| AbrahamParangi wrote:
| Curable is a bit of a stretch. More like "possibly not a death
| sentence, unlike other pancreatic cancers"
| fhsm wrote:
| I have heard variations on this many times but never a
| definitive expert assertion of its truth rooted in confirmed
| facts. Did he forego cure, or was he merely quirky and uncured
| as two independent truths?
|
| A bit of searching did not bring me complete clarity.
|
| -
| https://www.forbes.com/sites/alicegwalton/2011/10/24/steve-j...
|
| - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4924574/
|
| - https://www.livescience.com/16551-steve-jobs-alternative-
| med...
|
| The undisputed fact of his liver transplant in TN suggests a
| sophisticated deployment of his considerable means to me. Given
| this it seems to me that he may have been as described above at
| the time of diagnosis but he probably was not by the time of
| transplantation.
| rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote:
| According to his biography, he did initially try to cure his
| cancer by going fruitarian. Obviously, the cancer got worse
| instead of better, and he ended up needing a transplant. I
| suspect (and I have nothing to go off of other than his
| biography) that he didn't actually completely expect the
| fruit diet to work, and may have simply believed that if it
| was his time to go, it was his time to go, but his wife may
| have eventually talked some sense into him.
|
| In America, normal humans can only be on a transplant list
| for their home state, but a few states also accept out-of-
| state folks who can travel to the state within X hours. This
| was obviously designed for people who live right on the
| border in a neighboring state, but Jobs was able to use his
| private jet to argue that he should be on the transplant
| lists for basically every state that accepts out-of-state
| people.
|
| The main point is that it's possible he took an organ from
| someone in TN, because he himself let his own cancer progress
| beyond the point of salvaging the organ.
| sixQuarks wrote:
| Steve Jobs died from pancreatic cancer. He received a liver
| transplant, which is not related to that cancer.
| computerex wrote:
| His cancer was metastatic, meaning it spread to other
| parts of his body. That happens when a cancer is left
| untreated.
| fastball wrote:
| It also happens when a cancer is treated.
| zerop wrote:
| Jobs was vegan, is that right?
| carlosdp wrote:
| He was actually fruititarian, for most of his life.
| sedatk wrote:
| He had a favorite sushi place in Palo Alto. Maybe a
| pescaterian?
| deregulateMed wrote:
| Ahh the worse diet for the environment.
|
| Seems fitting for Jobs.
| Cmortoc wrote:
| That seems counter to my understanding of diets. Do you
| have any sources about this? I'd like to learn if I've
| been making misinformed decisions.
| perfmode wrote:
| Fuki?
| fermentation wrote:
| I didn't realize that this was actually real. I love fruit
| but I feel like all of the sugar would hurt me if it were the
| only thing that I ate.
| whitepoplar wrote:
| I wonder if that had anything to do with his pancreatic
| cancer
| permalac wrote:
| I think the actor doing Jobs had some pancreatic problems
| related to eating like Jobs.
|
| Don't quote me on that, please double check.
| steve_adams_86 wrote:
| Ashton Kutcher landed in hospital after following Steve
| Jobs's fruitarian diet
|
| https://www.theguardian.com/film/2013/jan/28/ashton-
| kutcher-...
| vntx wrote:
| Likely. It probaby wasn't the only thing though. The high
| amounts of sugar, weird fasting habits, drug use, extreme
| stress he put himself in, and his arrogance in ignoring
| sound medical advice might have all helped do him in from
| what I gleaned from his biography. His pancreas could
| only take so much apparently.
| fsckboy wrote:
| there are "ethical" fruititarians, because fruits are gifts
| the plants offer up, but consuming a vegetable is eating
| the plant itself.
| spfzero wrote:
| There are a lot of plants that you can eat a little part
| of, which then grows back, like the leaves on chard or
| lettuce plants. In our garden the chard plants produced
| for months.
|
| In commercial farming, it's just cheaper to cut the
| entire plant off and clear the land for the next crop.
| objclxt wrote:
| For the most part, but had a soft spot for sushi. I used to
| work in Infinite Loop and remember when Steve's favourite sushi
| restaurant closed so the chef was hired to work in the canteen
| instead.
| ec109685 wrote:
| Too bad he couldn't have gotten his tour guide and friend in too:
|
| > When they returned, an interpreter was waiting for Jobs. Oshima
| waited outside in the car.
|
| > "When he came back out an hour later, he told me: 'I would like
| to have a garden like that.'"
| fnord77 wrote:
| > "But he has passed away and now he's in heaven."
|
| no, he doesn't exist anymore.
| neom wrote:
| The Ryokan that they mention he always stayed at is apparently
| very good: https://www.annees-de-pelerinage.com/tawaraya-ryokan-
| review-...
|
| "Concierge service at the breakfast table is good, but the story
| goes on. On my way out one of the porters silently approached me
| and said: "Schwarze-sama, we checked the weather forecast and
| there will be rain this evening. So here is an umbrella to take
| along. Also, we took the liberty of reserving a table at that
| restaurant you wanted to go. Oh and last thing: here is a city
| plan for you where we already detailed down the way to Fushimi
| Inari." It goes without saying that the guy responsible for my
| shoes already set out my hiking shoes and not one of my city or
| evening shoes. Even he knew of my plans."
| mattlondon wrote:
| I personally find that sort of treatment kinda irritating.
| Perhaps I am just too English about it, but please mind their
| own business. Even the guy handling your shoes knows about what
| you are doing with your day? Your total itinerary that someone
| else planned for you? No thank you.
|
| What if actually I just wanted to do my own thing and the shoe
| guy got it wrong? Now everyone is embarrassed while they go get
| your tatty shoes and cancel restaurant reservations because you
| just wanted to go to Starbucks and do some email today.
|
| If I had _asked_ for those things then 110% yes, I love that
| decent service. But if it is all assumption...? then please
| leave me alone and don 't think you know what I want. Kthx bai
| neom wrote:
| From what he wrote, it sounds like he discussed his plans for
| the day with the breakfast butler, and they were able to
| infer based on his discussed plans what he would need
| (including a map with the route that they talked about
| marked). I also don't like to be bothered, but that would be
| fine enough by me.
| hnlmorg wrote:
| You would have asked for them. That's the point of those
| kinds of services: you decide on our plans and leave the
| arrangements to someone else.
|
| For what it's worth, I've stopped at B&Bs in Peak District
| (England) where you tell them which tor you wish to hike and
| you're provided with a map and packed lunch.
| timr wrote:
| That article is a bit silly. While I'm sure it's nice, this is
| not one of the high-end ryokans in Kyoto, and by no means is it
| "the best hotel in Japan" (I lived in Kyoto, and have been
| there many times). Reading the reviews, it mainly sounds small
| and difficult to book, and it has a cult reputation.
|
| I was actually a little surprised Jobs stayed there, given that
| there are really high-end places where dignitaries and utra-
| rich people tend to stay. This particular place is not in a
| fancy or scenic area, though it is in a very _convenient
| location_ , very near Teramachi, Sanjo, Kiyamachi, etc. Many of
| the elite ryokans are further out in more scenic areas (in
| Arashiyama, for example).
|
| The service standard in Japan is quite high, so pretty much any
| mid-range ryokan will provide an umbrella or making
| reservations for you. And if you're an internationally famous
| billionaire...
| Marciplan wrote:
| What makes you think SJ would appreciate what the ultra-
| billionaire appreciates, though? :)
| dzhiurgis wrote:
| I was amazed by service in Ryokan too - by the time we checked
| in our suitcases were in our rooms. By the time we had
| breakfast (with lady getting on her knees and explaining
| everything) our futons were done (we felt a bit embarrassed
| leaving mess and personal items everywhere).
|
| Ryokan is one of the best experiences in travel!
| jdkee wrote:
| See also
| https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/backstories/1681/
| DenisM wrote:
| If you're ever in Kyoto set aside a whole day for the train
| museum. It's absolutely through the roof train paradise.
| dbish wrote:
| I have to assume their shared love of Japan is one of the reasons
| Jobs and Larry Ellison were so close.
| unixhero wrote:
| I agree with the late Steve; Kyoto is sublime.
| thom wrote:
| Fixed that for you:
|
| https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ry%C5%8Dan-ji/@35.0343654,...
| dEnigma wrote:
| I was also thinking about a drone view or simply scaling the
| walls or trees nearby to try to get a full view of all 15
| stones. Unfortunately the Google Maps image is quite low
| resolution and I can't achieve enlightenment.
| thom wrote:
| I will admit, my very strong urge to find a workaround here
| has led me to do a lot of reflection on myself, and on tech
| more generally.
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(page generated 2021-07-03 23:00 UTC)