[HN Gopher] Migadu - No-nonsense multi-domain email at a flat price
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Migadu - No-nonsense multi-domain email at a flat price
Author : tsujp
Score : 258 points
Date : 2021-07-02 06:59 UTC (16 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.migadu.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.migadu.com)
| threatofrain wrote:
| Relevant post about Purelymail.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27707857
| gingerjoos wrote:
| I got my email hosting via MXRoute when they gave out a lifetime
| plan for $50 on Black Friday ( https://mxroute.com/pricing/ ,
| currently available at $150). It's a very no-frills service, they
| provide a webUI via Roundcube, Crossbox, Rainloop etc. I am
| pretty much reliant on Thunderbird on the desktop and K9 on
| Android. I've never had issues and I'm switching over from gmail
| slowly.
| damsta wrote:
| Lifetime these days means 3-4 years.
| genghizkhan wrote:
| I'll go out on a limb to defend jarland (the admin of
| mxroute) and say I genuinely don't think it only means 3 - 4
| years here. And even if it does, $50 (or even $150) for a 3 -
| 4 year service is pretty darn awesome.
| djvdorp wrote:
| Oh wow, I remember jarland from LowEndTalk.com, can
| definitely vouch for him. Quite an interesting interview
| with him about MXroute there:
| https://lowendbox.com/blog/interview-qa-with-mxroute-
| owner-j...
| Aeolun wrote:
| I don't ever want to have a limit on emails in/out per day. Or at
| least not an advertised limit for emails in.
|
| What happens if I go over the limit, people that send me email
| get a message that their email bounced because my plan doesn't
| allow more?
| michalhosna wrote:
| > If you try blasting mails in or out, your limit will be
| quickly gone and you will not be able to receive and/or send
| more. This will also trigged a bunch of alerts on our end. In
| most normal situations, you will be warned if you are reaching
| your limits so you have time to analyze the traffic and
| possibly upgrade your plan. This allows you to pay only what
| you really use.
|
| > If no upgrade is made, incoming messages will be deferred
| until the following day, and sending messages will be refused
| If you try blasting mails in or out, your limit will be quickly
| gone and you will not be able to receive and/or send more. This
| will also trigged a bunch of alerts on our end.
|
| > In most normal situations, you will be warned if you are
| reaching your limits so you have time to analyze the traffic
| and possibly upgrade your plan. This allows you to pay only
| what you really use.
|
| > If no upgrade is made, incoming messages will be deferred
| until the following day, and sending messages will be refused
|
| https://www.migadu.com/procon/#daily-limits-apply
| robomartin wrote:
| Options: Zimbra [0] and GoDaddy VPS [1]?
|
| My current setup is very simple. We have a GoDaddy Gen 4 server
| (don't knock it, rock solid, no issues at all) were we host email
| for multiple domains as we please. It's super simple. No email
| hosting nightmares. Just point the MX record to that server and
| host the site anywhere else or on the same server. One fixed
| annual cost (~$600/yr) and you can do whatever you want. This is
| hard to beat.
|
| I've been thinking of migrating to a Zimbra setup to self-host
| email on something like a Linode server. I absolutely detest per-
| mailbox/per-user plans. Frankly, it has been very hard to beat
| our current GoDaddy setup.
|
| If you are dealing with multiple domains, each with multiple
| mailboxes, costs can add-up very quickly. It then becomes a cash
| bleed. Every service (not just email) wants $5 to $20 per month
| from you. It is _very_ easy to end-up spending thousands of
| dollars per month through these "bleed" costs.
|
| Anyhow, other than time to make the transition, what has stopped
| me from taking this path is that Zimbra seems "fat" in the sense
| that it requires a "fat" server to run.
|
| [0] https://www.zimbra.com/ [1]
| https://pk.godaddy.com/hosting/vps-hosting
| Normal_gaussian wrote:
| Ive had a bad enough experience with migadu that I am compelled
| to actively warn people not to use them
| (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25054091).
|
| Migadu has taught me bargain basement email is too expensive in
| the long run.
| mouldysammich wrote:
| I've been using migadu for a year-ish, its a nice website. For
| only 20$ a year I don't think I've ever noticed down time and
| almost never received spam.
|
| I'm looking forward to them deploying 'Alps' their new UI I've
| been using it on my self-hosted mail and its pretty sweet.
| tsujp wrote:
| I use Migadu myself and have nothing but compliments for them.
| They do offer a calendar but it's only as a bare-bones complement
| to their main focus of email, so if you do not care about having
| invite responses and the like and just want: X is happening at Y
| functionality it's perfects for that too.
|
| I feel like they really care about how they offer their service
| and given how laser focused it is that translates into me being
| extremely satisfied with their offering.
| baobabKoodaa wrote:
| I tried Migadu in 2019. I did a lot of testing to make sure it
| can actually deliver emails to other providers like Gmail and
| Outlook. The test emails were fine. But then the very first real
| email that I actually needed to be delivered, it immediately went
| into the spam folder in Gmail.
|
| It's a bad idea to use a small email provider to send emails.
| arghwhat wrote:
| Have never had that issue in my few years of using it, and I
| regularly send to Gmail and Office365 addresses.
|
| It is a bad idea to support monopolization.
| baobabKoodaa wrote:
| Why did you downvote me? Good for you if you never had an
| issue, but I did have an issue, and people should know that
| this is the risk they take by using small email providers.
| bdukic wrote:
| >Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It
| never does any good, and it makes boring reading.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
| jordansmith wrote:
| Did you have SPF and DKIM records created properly?
| Tepix wrote:
| We need more small email providers, not fewer. The fewer large
| providers there are the less power they have.
| [deleted]
| brnt wrote:
| I use postale.io after I switched away from Migadu (got in while
| they had a free tier). Excellent and reliable service over the
| past year.
| kwanbix wrote:
| I like their pricing better than Migadu's, however, I don't
| want 50 mailboxes with 3GB each, I want 5 mailboxes with 30GB
| each. That would be perfect.
| brnt wrote:
| I have approached them with similar questions and they made
| the change without any hassle.
| luke2m wrote:
| Yep, they've been great. Too bad they stopped their free tier.
| brnt wrote:
| I'd readily pay that dollar though (I guess I should!).
| Uptime and delivery has been as good as the best for me.
| ishanjain28 wrote:
| What luck!
|
| I have been trying to move away from Zoho. I tried protonmail for
| the last month but it's not for me. E2E is great but the loss in
| functionality is a bit much.
|
| I switched to fastmail today but I have ran into some issues
| there as well[1] and so far I have seen a lot of recent reddit
| posts criticizing the extremely slow response time(2+ days) in
| support tickets. So, now I am not sure if fastmail is a good
| option.
|
| Migadu has been recommended to me in the past, maybe I should try
| that out
|
| [1]
| https://reddit.com/r/fastmail/comments/m4rj0g/_/h3tq036/?con...
| mdasen wrote:
| Mind if I ask why you're moving away from Zoho? I've been
| debating moving my email to Zoho since they offer a cheap
| $12/year plan.
|
| I might just move everything to iCloud+ when they start
| supporting custom domains this fall since $1/mo for 50GB seems
| pretty reasonable.
| ishanjain28 wrote:
| 1. Huge email deliverability issues. Quite a few emails just
| get lost somehow. Just today, someone forwarded a book and
| hours later I still haven't received it.
|
| 2. Terrible, Inconsistent UI.
|
| 3. Push notifications are broken and Their apps are broken. I
| dont get notifications in clients configured with IMAP and
| their apps also dont send notifications. I have to manually
| refresh in both cases.
|
| 4. Relatively minor issue but I am against Zoho's founder's
| political alignment, and that is putting this issue mildly.
| kureikain wrote:
| Just another data point.
|
| I had great delivery with zoho for year even use their free
| plan. They used to offer SMTP/IMAP on their free tier few
| years ago and continue to granfathering those my account.
|
| If you like consistent UI then no one can beat gmail. Even
| fastmail/protonmail/outlook cannot beat gmail in UI/UX to me.
|
| Stay away from iCloud is my advice. Their proofpoint spam
| filtering is the worst to deal with. Lots of people are going
| to have trouble reach iCloud inbox.
|
| Anything but not iCloud. That isn't their primary business
| and consider level of Apple support and randomly ban/block
| people out of iCloud(you will find some here), I would advice
| against using them.
|
| Give zoho I tried. They are very reliable, their spam
| filtering isn't as good as gmail so sometime legitimate
| emails go to Spam but that's a problem with any mail
| provider. Time to time you have to train spam system.
| Especially if you got a lot of email from people with a new
| domains email you first time. New domains that are created
| within 7 days and send out email are more likely to be
| flagged.
| xfer wrote:
| I use uberspace for solely email, they provide a shell and bit
| more. It has been working well for me: i can have full 10gb space
| for email(now you can even buy more space), aliases/mailboxes as
| i need. https://manual.uberspace.de/mail-access/
| malinens wrote:
| inbox.eu is alternative which is much longer in business (since
| about 2000) with flat price per mailbox 9.99 EUR per year (now it
| is only 3 EUR with discount- no promo code needed).
| newscracker wrote:
| I'd never heard of this before. Would you know if the offer
| will hold good in the future (on signup now) or if it's only
| for something like the first year (and will be switched to the
| normal one later)?
|
| It's also not clear what the jurisdictions of the company (I
| presume Latvia) and its data centers are.
|
| This looks like a good option for semi-important communications
| if the need is just for a few mailboxes.
| malinens wrote:
| All servers are located in Latvia. We don't use cloud and all
| servers are managed by us. Discount is available for quite a
| long time. Maybe even year but can be disabled in near future
| but I do not know specifics
| wohfab wrote:
| Migadu has unlimited domains and unlimited mailboxes per domain
| even on the smalles plan for 19 bucks. I don't see how 9.99 EUR
| PER mailbox is an alternative to that.
| malinens wrote:
| this sounds little bit absurd. in no way somebody with
| million mailboxes could migrate to migadu and pay just 19
| bucks
| Neil44 wrote:
| I've used Migadu for about 3/4 years now to provide email for
| hosting clients. They're good. They had a little wobble at the
| start of the pandemic but otherwise no issues. You get full
| dmark, dkim etc and autodiscover. Massive mailboxes. Would
| recommend.
| CaptainMarvel wrote:
| I started using Migadu recently because it offers - as far as I
| know - unlimited mailboxes and aliases on a single domain, and
| unlimited domains for a cheap, fixed price.
|
| There isn't anyone else that does this that I know of, and so the
| value provided in this one area is incredible.
|
| There are other limits, like sending 20 emails per day on the
| cheapest plan, but I don't think I've ever sent that many emails
| before.
| Fnoord wrote:
| Even Gmail has unlimited aliases, via catch-all (everything
| after +). With Gmail, specifically, you can use dots (.) in an
| e-mail address for aliases as well. I'm not using Gmail, but I
| would not use an e-mail service without catch-all. The dot
| behavior, however, is weird. Nobody does it that way, 'cept
| Google.
| newscracker wrote:
| The + isn't completely helpful if the intent of using aliases
| is related to spam. All spammers know how these work and can
| figure out the main address by discarding the + and whatever
| comes after it. The dot has been somewhat of a problem to use
| where it seemed as if Gmail allowed other people to create
| the same address with dots (I don't recall the details since
| this was a long, long time ago).
| Fnoord wrote:
| You can opt to only ever use + and then put a lot of weight
| on spam score on anything _not_ using the + (or using
| whitelisting without the +). It can also help when trying
| to figure out who leaked your data. Literally, data
| breaches have been found /exposed by a few heroes who used
| this feature.
| squiggleblaz wrote:
| > The dot behavior, however, is weird. Nobody does it that
| way, 'cept Google.
|
| I think it makes good sense for a free email provider. You
| don't want to distinguish bobsmith@... from Bob.Smith@.... It
| will just cause misdelivered emails.
| newscracker wrote:
| There's mxroute in the U.S. that provides a similar service,
| but has pricing primarily based on space usage.
| Cu3PO42 wrote:
| I have used Migadu in the past and I had absolutely no
| complaints. Everything worked as advertised and I had no delivery
| issues.
|
| I chose them for their pricing model: they charge not per mailbox
| or domain, but rather per total number of emails in/out and
| storage. While this probably makes them less money, it always
| seemed like an honest and fair approach to billing.
| zorked wrote:
| Me too, it works. I wish it had whatever IMAP feature it is
| that makes server-side search possible in K9, that's a bit of
| an annoyance.
| dogo22 wrote:
| I wonder why nobody has mentioned tutanota as an alternative in
| this thread. It's not too expensive and quite safe as far as I'm
| aware. If anyone knows a downside to it please share it with us.
| decrypt wrote:
| I was a paying Tutanota customer for two full years, but ended
| up cancelling recently. Reasons being lack of IMAP (ProtonMail
| does), slow development, [missing features](https://old.reddit.
| com/r/tutanota/search?q=missing&restrict_...) yet their focus
| is on building quantum cryptography defense, and most
| importantly, their recent change in domain limit. It used to be
| unlimited on the 12 EUR plan, but without any announcement to
| the end-user, they limited that to 1. They [fixed that later](h
| ttps://old.reddit.com/r/tutanota/comments/lwr2ag/important_...)
| but I no longer trust their business practices.
| bennyp101 wrote:
| Not really the same, you have to use their clients to access
| your email (and doesn't seem to have a bridge like Protonmail)
| so you are effectively locked in
| Markoff wrote:
| Tutanota ain't very safe
|
| https://techcrunch.com/2020/12/08/german-secure-email-provid...
| gruez wrote:
| Is there reason to believe other mail providers aren't
| subject to the same kind of court order?
| wohfab wrote:
| What does "user" mean with tutanota? If I want multiple custom
| domains, I need to go with the business account, which has a 1
| GB storage limit and a 5 aliases limit. And then it is only for
| a single user. Does that mean, I cannot have independent login
| data for the multiple domains/mailboxes I create? Because then
| it is not close to a viable alternative to migadu.
| decrypt wrote:
| You can have an independent login account but that comes at
| an additional cost of 12 EUR. That's on the top of the
| Business plan's cost of 12 EUR + 12 EUR.
| wohfab wrote:
| Okay, then that defeats the purpose of why _I_ chose
| Migadu, where there is no limit on the login accounts.
| asteroidbelt wrote:
| Simple mail hostings on the rise nowadays.
|
| What next? UUCP providers? Flat price BBS?
| Wronnay wrote:
| Here is a comparison which lists some cheaper alternatives to
| Migadu: https://blog.m5e.de/post/comparison-of-email-hosting-
| possibi...
| newscracker wrote:
| Your conclusion is spot on! I've been looking for providers
| that are lower on the cost for more than one mailbox with
| custom domains and being outside surveillance jurisdictions.
|
| One point about your post: Migadu has (or at least had) all the
| data stored in data centers in France. It also doesn't encrypt
| data at rest. So I'm not sure how the privacy angle exactly
| works.
| fastball wrote:
| Why the fixation on religion of founders?
| Wronnay wrote:
| I am an Atheist. I don't want that my money goes to people
| who want that their religious worldview takes over.
|
| Using a service from a Hindu nationalism supporter goes
| against my personal world view.
|
| I included the religous connections because some other people
| might also have similar thoughts.
| yunohn wrote:
| Where did you read that Zoho is furthering Hindu
| nationalism? I'd be curious to read a source.
| anoncake wrote:
| > I am an Atheist. I don't want that my money goes to
| people who want that their religious worldview takes over.
|
| That is not the same thing as being religious.
| ishanjain28 wrote:
| This is a small reason why I am trying to switch away from
| Zoho right now. :/
| lbriner wrote:
| You have virtually 0% chance of ever knowing what the
| recipients of your money spend it on. Anyone could be
| giving it to extreme political groups, abuse groups,
| extreme religions. On the other hand, a religious person
| might not have any interest in supporting extremism.
|
| The money also goes to silent partners, investors etc. so
| where do you stop?
|
| We should judge people on their integrity and business
| model imho, religion is a straw man.
| smashah wrote:
| Umm am I missing something? Wouldn't you just use GSuite and set
| up other domains as aliases?
| andreareina wrote:
| Some people want to limit their exposure to google. Also a
| healthy market for email is a good thing.
| Ecto5 wrote:
| some people dontdont want google in their lives.
| stapled_socks wrote:
| > Umm am I missing something?
|
| Probably.
|
| > Wouldn't you just use GSuite and set up other domains as
| aliases?
|
| Not if you think this Migadu or some other service suits your
| needs better or provides better value.
| ttty2 wrote:
| 29usd a month is not "Humbly Priced" imo. I receive thousands of
| spam email.
| nmlt wrote:
| Many people here are mentioning alternatives. The ones I'm using
| are mailbox.org (although they recently raised prices for new
| customers) and uberspace.de (includes ssh access).
| werds wrote:
| this is the worst landing page i have ever seen for a SaaS
| product
| bennyp101 wrote:
| Why? It says exactly what it does? It hosts email. That is it.
|
| I think it's quite refreshing to not have parallax scrolling,
| and the same tired looking icons and vector graphics.
|
| Everything I need to know is pretty much there on the front
| page.
| werds wrote:
| - there is far too much detailed copy above the fold - the
| copy around the call to action is too vague - there is no
| example of "what you have now without migadu" versus "with
| migadu"
|
| in summary it makes it very hard to quickly identify the
| problem it solves and illustrate how migadu fixes it.
|
| take a look at this article:
| https://blog.roastmylandingpage.com/landing-page-roasts/
| watermelon0 wrote:
| IMO it's one of the better landing pages. It tells you
| exactly what they offer (email hosting with unlimited
| domains), and what features they support. Pricing is
| straightforward (with no nonsense discounts for the first N
| months) and one click away.
|
| Linked article is just an opinion of some person, and I
| have to say I quite disagree with it:
|
| - If I'm looking for a email hosting, I definitely know
| what the pain is, and I assume they will fix it by
| providing hosting for my emails.
|
| - Testimonials & awards are bullshit. They don't help me
| determine if I want to use the service or not.
| werds wrote:
| Yes the linked article is the opinion of one person. One
| person with a proven track record of maximising the
| conversions from landing page visits.
| bennyp101 wrote:
| I disagree :)
|
| "in summary it makes it very hard to quickly identify the
| problem it solves and illustrate how migadu fixes it."
|
| I want to host my email, they host email .... there isn't
| much more to it :)
|
| They don't really advertise, and it is word of mouth it
| seems - if you have got there, then there is a pretty good
| chance you know what you want, and can spend a few mins to
| read through and see if it fits.
|
| I really dislike this "distil everything down because
| people can't spend a few minutes reading" trend, everyone
| seem far more interested in marketing fluff and speak, and
| not just taking the time to understand what they want
| oron wrote:
| I have a decent domain and good knowledge in backend / scaling
| production servers up. Anyone can recommend a good white label /
| open source package which I can use to build a Migadu clone ?
| sbaildon wrote:
| I use migadu for all my side-project-esque domains because of
| their pricing, and their service has been wonderful.
|
| Unfortunately I'm still using another provider for my primary
| domain because I can't get real time push notifications on Apple
| Mail with Migadu--they're limited to 15 minute fetches for best
| case scenario
| fortran77 wrote:
| For $70/year Microsoft lets me point up to 99 domains at a cloud
| exchange server. This has been working well for me.
| herbst wrote:
| Many of us care about their privacy tho. Microsoft does not
| have a good track record in protecting valueable data.
| atatatat wrote:
| The emails in your inbox are primarily coming from Google/MS
| servers.
| herbst wrote:
| Are most transactional or newsletter services hosted with
| MS or Google? I honestly doubt that, if anything I guess
| Amazon is the dominant force here. Also Google does not
| exactly have a bad record with Gmail.
|
| However no, most privacy relevant emails I get are either
| directly sent from a Webservice, company own SMTPS or other
| privacy aware email providers.
|
| Sure some friends hit me up with their Gmails, but I
| usually do not consider these mails privacy relevant.
| frankietaylr wrote:
| Can you elaborate this setup a bit more?
| Neil44 wrote:
| Assume they mean using a basic Office 365 plan. That's cost
| per user though, not really a comparable pricing plan.
| Markoff wrote:
| 20 outgoing emails per day at micro service for 19USD a year? I
| really hope that's very bad joke
|
| Mini with 100 outgoing emails for only 90USD a year is comparably
| bad
| necovek wrote:
| Perfect for a single/family user who's got multiple domains:
| they are obviously targeting customers like me with it (20
| emails per day is over 7000 emails a year: how many did _you_
| send out the last year?).
|
| The price is right, concerns over privacy and support are not.
| akych wrote:
| Their $19 (Micro) Plan lists "200 in/day and 20 out/day". My
| email usage, personally, seems to be in bursts. It stays below 1
| or 2 outbound mails on most days, however on some days (rarely)
| there'll be threaded conversations with >50 outbound mails. So, I
| feel like it would be fantastic if the plan had monthly limits
| instead of daily limit. Or some other sort of limit, say EC2
| like, which would allow the user to consume the resources in
| bursts.
| wcerfgba wrote:
| Yes, I was also quite excited until I saw the message limits,
| it feels very archaic.
|
| So far the best email service I've found is Tutanota, who
| provide a custom domain for EUR12 / mo if you pay yearly [1],
| which is the cheapest I've found so far. I also like how my
| mail is encrypted at rest. The only downside is I have to use
| their web client which has limited features.
|
| [1] https://tutanota.com/pricing
| jacobmischka wrote:
| While $19 yearly is admittedly very cheap, 20 daily outbound
| emails seems like an absurdly low limit. I can't imagine many
| sole proprietorships (as they suggest as customers for that
| tier) would be able to sustain that.
| estaseuropano wrote:
| They say it is a soft limit. You'll at most get a
| warning/request to update but they promise not to block.
| mfsch wrote:
| As a Migadu customer, that's not my understanding. From their
| website: "When reaching incoming messages limits, we will
| warn you and allow for some tolerance of up to 25% over the
| plan limit. If even the higher tolerance level gets reached,
| we will start deferring messages until either the following
| day or the plan is upgraded. [...] When reaching outgoing
| messages limits, we will warn you and allow for some
| tolerance of up to 25% over the plan limit. After the
| tolerance we will start rejecting outgoing messages."
| londons_explore wrote:
| "90% of any unused allowance carries over to the next day" is a
| neat way to allow 10x bursts while keeping allowances
| understandable.
| barrkel wrote:
| That is a 1.9x burst, not 10x, right?
|
| And that's at best, assuming you got no emails at all the
| previous day.
| flowerlad wrote:
| The most important feature I look for is Search. Really, email
| servers should primarily be search engines (and should use
| something like Lucene for storage). With Gmail I can search the
| last 15 years of email instantaneously. This is their killer
| feature. Migadu does not even mention search.
| jordansmith wrote:
| You would be using thunderbird or whatever your client of
| choice is so that's where you would be searching.
| flowerlad wrote:
| If I want to search the last 15 days of email then client-
| side search might work. If I want to search the last 15 years
| of email instantaneously then I need server-side storage and
| search.
| icy wrote:
| Migadu is fantastic. No complaints. Their support is very
| responsive -- they even gave me a 50% student discount!
| newscracker wrote:
| I'll repeat my comment from nearly seven months ago [1] since it
| left a really bad taste about how users are dealt with. Nearly a
| year ago when the initial waves of the pandemic were raging on,
| Migadu removed its free tier. That's not a problem by itself
| because businesses have to make money to sustain and grow. But
| Migadu gave one month's notice (contrary to the claims in the
| replies, that's what I saw) for users to switch. The replies to
| the comment also said that the new lowest paid tier was
| "affordable in every corner of the planet", which sounded quite
| ignorant even for a non-pandemic time.
|
| Another point, which may matter to some people, is that while
| Migadu may be a Swiss company, the data centers where the mails
| are hosted were in France (this was the case at least a year
| ago). So the situation is somewhat comparable (not entirely
| though) to Fastmail being an Australian company with data centers
| in the U.S. being used.
|
| For those who want multi-domain email services for a lower (flat)
| price, look at mxroute. It's based out of the U.S. though, which
| may not be an option for people who want certain services outside
| Five Eyes jurisdictions.
|
| [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25382626
| throwthere wrote:
| Similar issue. Just chiming in to say it wasn't just you and
| I've since left Migadu forever as well.
| xPaw wrote:
| Around the same time last year they also had a storage layer
| failure, and my catch-all rules disappeared. And about a month
| before that they changed POP3 address.
|
| Both of these changes happened without any email announcement,
| only visible on their site. So effectively because I didn't
| login into Migadu dashboard, I was losing emails.
| t-mw wrote:
| I experienced the same thing, and it took me a couple of
| weeks to realize I wasn't receiving emails. Luckily I was
| only testing it out with emails for non-essential services. I
| found it difficult to understand why they continued to not
| make an announcement even after I, and presumably other
| people, made them aware of the impact the change had.
| estaseuropano wrote:
| I had this issue too - all rules were deleted as they
| switched form regex to something else. I have no idea whether
| I missed anything and they really could have done an
| anouncement.
|
| Otherwise have been quite happy and except for a lack of
| calendar it all works quite well.
| Normal_gaussian wrote:
| Yep. This was exactly my experience, resulted in failure to
| recieve mail (and my email being deassociated from the
| accounts of my bank and rental agency).
|
| I had a back and fore with them on HN some months back and
| they were trying to whitewash their handling of the storage
| failure / rules deletion.
|
| The savings are not worth the risk.
| pqb wrote:
| > Another point, which may matter to some people, is that while
| Migadu may be a Swiss company, the data centers where the mails
| are hosted were in France (this was the case at least a year
| ago). So the situation is somewhat comparable (not entirely
| though) to Fastmail being an Australian company with data
| centers in the U.S. being used.
|
| > For those who want multi-domain email services for a lower
| (flat) price, look at mxroute. It's based out of the U.S.
| though, which may not be an option for people who want certain
| services outside Five Eyes jurisdictions.
|
| Weird speaking that, but I would be more of concerned of (an
| accidental) breach of privacy by some Migadu employee than some
| <country-name> burreau. Not saying about some typical script
| kiddie or some hacker-magician getting in possession of logins
| with passwords as leak. It is likely new on the market and I am
| tempted to say it has near-zero reputation for anyone looking
| for a private mail right now. Location do matter, but execution
| more.
| newscracker wrote:
| > It is likely new on the market and I am tempted to say it
| has near-zero reputation for anyone looking for a private
| mail right now.
|
| GP here. Not sure if you meant Migadu in this sentence, but
| Migadu is not new in the email market. It has been around for
| several years (don't want to visit the website to look it
| up). I also don't believe that it has near-zero reputation.
| aesyondu wrote:
| About page says 2014.
| pqb wrote:
| Maybe "likely new" is a bad word to describe it. Comparing
| to many email providers I know or used 7 years is a pity.
| It have matured enough to consider it will stay for longer
| and it won't disappear soon, what has happened to many
| competitors on e-mail service market. I said "new", because
| both Migadu (since 2014) and even ProtonMail (since 2013)
| brought a lot of fresh air in last decade. I my observation
| for some reasons Migadu gained more attention among people
| looking to have an email with own domain name in last few
| years than in previous. When I also shared a link to Migadu
| to some friends, they also saying "oh, I hear about it for
| the first time". That's why I am saying "it is likely new
| on the market", it still have potential to gather new
| customers by advertising (on the contrary to ProtonMail,
| which seems media coverage helped a lot).
|
| > I also don't believe that it has near-zero reputation.
|
| Well, I guess I was too harsh but it is small company that
| already had various problems while operating (thankfully
| only downtime / lack of support) and it is hard to trust
| that no leak or breach will happen (and this is what makes
| me more concerned than some bureau). I also said "it has
| near-zero reputation for anyone looking for a private" - I
| don't generalize to whole service but only to private/safe
| message exchange. This service is perfectly fine for people
| in IT, startups or just personal emails but if I would be a
| person, who exchanges confidential documents I will stay
| away from Migadu. Why? They do not encrypt data on their
| servers [0][1], which is clearly opposite to what
| ProtonMail does [2].
|
| [0]: https://www.reddit.com/r/privacytoolsIO/comments/ltcjc
| 5/what...
|
| > 4. They don't encrypt anything other than SMTP, IMAP,
| HTTPS. You can encrypt your emails manually but they don't
| encrypt anything on their servers. They claim this is
| impractical and doesn't truly help with privacy or
| security.
|
| > 5. They don't force you to give them your real name or
| personal info, but there are no anonymous or cash payments.
| They only process payments via PayPal or Stripe though they
| claim to not keep any information about you that way.
|
| [1]: https://www.migadu.com/procon/
|
| [2]: https://protonmail.com/support/knowledge-base/what-is-
| encryp...
| GrumpyNl wrote:
| Im surprised that there is no response from Migadu here.
| [deleted]
| vgalin wrote:
| > while Migadu may be a Swiss company, the data centers where
| the mails are hosted were in France
|
| > So the situation is somewhat comparable (not entirely though)
| to Fastmail being an Australian company with data centers in
| the U.S. being used
|
| I don't know if it is a good comparison, as European countries
| (France included) are subject to GDPR, which does not really
| have an equivalent in the U.S.
| newscracker wrote:
| GP here. My points were about surveillance arrangements and
| information exchange between countries, like the Five Eyes,
| Nine Eyes, Fourteen Eyes, etc. Also, as far as I know, Migadu
| does not encrypt data at rest. Anyone who gets access to the
| servers gets access to all the data.
| estaseuropano wrote:
| They have a great FAQ explaining that and I agree with
| their conclusion - all the encryption claims by other
| providers are nonsense and don't offer real protection.
| spinax wrote:
| > For those who want multi-domain email services for a lower
| (flat) price, look at mxroute
|
| I was very interested and very seriously considering signing
| up, until I read this: https://mxroute.com/docs/do-you-
| support-2fa-on-email-account... While I respect Jarland's
| opinion/stance, I do not agree.
| hellcow wrote:
| What do you disagree with specifically? The reasoning in that
| link is absolutely correct. We can argue that POP, etc.
| should have 2FA support added to the protocol, but that's not
| the point the author was making.
| ampdepolymerase wrote:
| Compromising a user password does not grant access to the
| web client (where all the important settings are at) if 2fa
| is enabled. App specific password only allows data
| exfiltration and most enterprise email servers/authz
| systems can be configured to automatically block access
| from VPNs/foreign ips. These days emails are tied into
| calendar and Oauth and many other things, blocking access
| to the inbox is just one layer in a very a big picture.
| arp242 wrote:
| Loads of folk use just webmail though, and SMTP/IMAP is
| usually disabled until they generate an app password.
|
| If you do enable SMTP/IMAP: sure, it's correct. But that
| often doesn't apply, so I don't think it's a "trick" or
| "sleight of hand".
| jasonjayr wrote:
| Modern IMAP servers support OAuth2/OIDC, (Thunderbird
| supports this dialog) and IMAP/POP/SMTP has supported
| kerberos since forever (Though that typically is only
| within a pre-setup organization).
| spinax wrote:
| Use case: I have an unattended cron task polling my IMAP
| account to archive the mail every 4 hours. I specifically
| use an IMAP read-only unique ("per-app") password for that
| script/connection; under no circumstance should that
| password have access to write to IMAP, touch POP or SMTP.
| Fastmail allows me to do this with ease, and I can create
| as many as I'd like with different ACLs. The mxroute
| reasoning simply does not consider all the use cases people
| have and want per-app passwords for to increase their
| personal security posture.
| Raineer wrote:
| The ease of creation of app passwords and protocol-level
| controls really are fantastic in Fastmail. I hope it
| never goes away.
| robertlagrant wrote:
| > It's based out of the U.S. though, which may not be an option
| for people who want certain services outside Five Eyes
| jurisdictions.
|
| Are you saying it's based in the US? (Brit here.)
| nanis wrote:
| The question is not Brit-specific so to speak. Saying "based
| off of" to mean "based on" and "based out of" to mean "based
| in" etc started relatively recently in the U.S. In the NYC
| area, people also say "waiting on line" instead of "in line"
| which grates me to this day, but at least I could find that
| usage special-case in a foot thick Webster dictionary back
| when I first encountered.
|
| I believe the "based off of" and "based out of" were
| popularized among the hipster brogrammers of early 21st
| century, but I might be wrong.
|
| I am not a native speaker.
| necovek wrote:
| > which grates me to this day
|
| You might be saddened to learn that languages are a living
| thing :), and only "owned" by the people speaking it.
| Dictionaries are always behind by definition, because they
| encode the words that have caught on sufficiently: there
| was never a new word created that was first put into a
| dictionary and people picked it up from there.
|
| Basically, don't get stressed too much with language
| changes, because it does and always will. Or what are we to
| make of "brogrammers" (even "hipster" is relatively new,
| not to mention most of the computing jargon).
| 8ytecoder wrote:
| your absolutely correct. its the way its always been.
| newscracker wrote:
| Yes, mxroute is based in the U.S. (the company as well as its
| data centers).
| louis-lau wrote:
| This isn't true. MXroute mostly uses Hetzner in Germany.
| But there no guarantee to server location.
| tptacek wrote:
| I remain baffled at the folk wisdom of using providers outside
| the United States in order to avoid the Five Eyes IC. You
| accomplish the opposite thing by doing that. NSA is literally
| chartered to hack into things outside of US jurisdiction; they
| don't even need permission to do it. They might even need
| permission _not_ to do it.
|
| Obviously, hosting in the US isn't a cure-all. And there are
| other good reasons to work with companies in Europe; for
| instance, their data privacy rules can often be better than
| ours, which can give you some commercial protections.
|
| But these discussions about where people's email is hosted
| always talk about jurisdictional issues, and the only
| jurisdictional issue that matters here is this: if NSA is going
| to swipe mail from Google Mail, there's a whole fuckload of
| paperwork they have to do. If they want to get mail from your
| random email provider in Switzerland, they can just push a
| button.
| TedDoesntTalk wrote:
| Excellent point! Illegal domestic spying in the US has mostly
| gone the way of the dodo bird because of certain
| whisteblowers.
| colordrops wrote:
| You are being sarcastic I assume.
| tptacek wrote:
| I want to be clear that I have zero doubt that illegal
| domestic spying happens in the US. I chose my words
| carefully.
| davidwritesbugs wrote:
| If you are trying to avoid spook you're fucked anywhere you
| are: US EU whatever. Yes, if the NSA want your US email they
| probably won't press that button, but they'll ask GCHQ to
| press a UK button insetad and get it that way. Also, if the
| FBI wants your email they will just send a guy in a black MiB
| suit & 9/10 times the email company will roll over. If they
| meet resistance FBI just go to a tame US judge (they have
| loads) who rubber stamps the writ. If your server is in .CH
| they need lots of paperwork and a good arguable case. So yes
| it is worth hosting outside US. Ask Microsoft about why they
| do EU data hosting in Ireland.
| mox1 wrote:
| Your kinda proving parents point. To get email content
| outside the USA, there are no rules. NSA can do more or
| less what they want to obtain that data (hack,bribe,etc.)
|
| within the US, it requires some type of judicial process.
| You can argue about corrupt judges, power tripping FBI
| agents, etc. etc. but the fact is, its harder to obtain
| this data inside the USA.
|
| Further, if you are just committing regular old crimes, the
| FBI will need to run some type of parallel reconstruction
| IF they obtained your data using less than pristine
| methods.
|
| What DoJ attorney would risk their career cause some dumb-
| ass FBI agent went rogue and pistol whipped the sys-admin
| for the data?!?!?!?!
| tptacek wrote:
| I'm not even trying to say you're meaningfully protected
| by US jurisdiction. I personally think you are, but I
| won't try to win the argument, and I think reasonable
| people can certainly disagree. I'm just saying that, if
| nothing else, selecting a smaller provider with fewer
| security resources just to get outside of the US is not a
| win with respect to mass surveillance.
| woutr_be wrote:
| Also another happy Migadu user, on their micro plan. I mainly use
| it for small projects, it's great because I pay a flat $19 fee
| for unlimited domains. I'm happy to upgrade once a project
| requires it.
|
| For my personal domain email, I use Fastmail, but that comes in
| at $50 yearly. Not something I can justify when just playing
| around with an idea.
| yarcob wrote:
| According to their website, Fastmail allows up to 100 custom
| domains on a single account, so it's not like you need to buy a
| second account if you just want to receive/send email on a
| domain.
| woutr_be wrote:
| Yes, but you pay per "user". So if you want to separate your
| accounts, you want multiple users.
| yarcob wrote:
| Right, but I don't really see why you would need separate
| accounts. In my experience a single account for multiple
| projects is actually very convenient (with rules to
| automatically sort incoming mail).
|
| In my opinion, multiple accounts are really only necessary
| if you have employees or collaborators and want to make
| sure that not everyone can access your stuff.
|
| But that's just my point of view, I understand that what
| works for me may not be suitable for your projects.
| npv789 wrote:
| purelymail is a better deal
| canada2us wrote:
| For those who want to get their hands dirty, here is a full, step
| by step tutorial to set up your own email server:
| https://www.linuxbabe.com/mail-server/setup-basic-postfix-ma...
|
| migadu's mail number limit does not make sense to me: This risks
| losing emails.
| lbriner wrote:
| That guide is all very well but it is very complicated to
| follow and setup, and I have been using Linux for a reasonable
| amount of time (10+ years).
|
| I was surprised that there wasn't an open source script, a bit
| like you would run with apt-get, that would simply ask you some
| questions and do all the bits for you.
|
| Postfix is obviously really powerful but for a noob to it, I
| found it overwhelming without consulting lots of docs.
|
| I did find https://www.iredmail.org/ but that has a feature
| limit for the free version. The bits you actually really want
| costs up to $500/year. Not much if it is for your main
| business, but a lot when you only want it for a part of your
| larger system.
| marderfarker2 wrote:
| I already have email with unlimited addresses/aliases/domain with
| my hosting provider (a local-run no frills cPanel), I think most
| of HN will have similar setups.
| stingraycharles wrote:
| Question: beyond a certain degree, why would you try to save
| money on email that much? Email is pretty much the weakest link
| for most people from a security perspective (ie password
| recovery), so I would want my email provider to have enough
| resources to properly secure the thing.
|
| What are people using these providers for, and do you feel like
| they secure your mailbox enough?
| herbst wrote:
| That's why I use protonmail and don't even know how much I pay.
| IMO email is the single most relevant part of your internet
| privacy and security. Nearly everything builds on it.
| arghwhat wrote:
| I use it for primary email, and based on communication with
| them _and_ experience with Gmail and O365, certainly trust
| migadu more than the usual suspects.
|
| Remember that email communication, irrespective of provider, is
| not secret unless GPG or similar is used. If a MFA enabled
| account can be accessed with only a password reset email, it is
| fundamentally insecure.
| stingraycharles wrote:
| While of course in theory you are correct, the fact remains
| that you _are_ able to reset your password using email in
| many online applications, and that addressing this is out of
| control of the user. Using a secure email provider, however,
| is within control and can certainly go a long way in
| mitigating the risks here.
| arghwhat wrote:
| It does very, very little to mitigate risk when you are
| using an insecure medium.
|
| Regardless, their security is respectable and their fair
| simpler infrastructure makes me much more confident that it
| isn't full of holes.
| donmcronald wrote:
| I use MXroute for low volume, automated email from software and
| devices. Having unlimited mailboxes (one per device) and super
| low (configurable), per mailbox quotas is a better solution
| than the expensive providers have.
|
| Office 365 is _brutal_ for sending from devices. In fact it's
| impossible with security defaults (more like overrides)
| enforcing 2FA and one of their supported options is literally
| (I'm not joking here) to use another mail server that's not
| Office 365.
|
| https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/exchange/mail-flow-best-pra...
| bennyp101 wrote:
| Good timing, I'm in the process of looking to migrate my emails.
| Currently on O365 for 3 of us, but as we now all get Office
| products via work, I can't justify paying ~PS30 a month.
|
| Looking at our usage, the biggest account is 3.7GB, and in the
| last 180 days the most emails sent was 12 in one day, and the
| most received was 158 - so micro looks like a fit.
|
| The pricing looks pretty spot on for what we need, and the
| features seem good, so I've set up a 14day trial with just my
| email to see how it goes.
|
| I guess the only thing is calendar and contact sync, (I tried to
| get the calendar to work, but keeps saying it does not exist
| /shrug)
|
| Any recommendations for a calendar/contact provider?
| decrypt wrote:
| Speaking for calendar, I basically signed up for a new Google
| account with that custom domain email address and use calendar
| on it. Syncs neat to my Android.
| tweetle_beetle wrote:
| They have pushed a basic CalDAV (and CarDAV?) feature out on
| Migadu for what it's worth. I think they're new enough that
| they're considered beta and not in marketing materials.
|
| https://www.migadu.com/guides/thunderbird/
| saladuh wrote:
| Yep, if you contact them about it they'll provide you with
| more info. Both CardDAV and CalDAV will be available,
| documented and all, to the public in September/October. When
| I emailed them earlier today about it (pure coincidence) they
| gave me the necessary info on CardDAV and also directed me to
| a post[0] made by another beta tester explaining both DAV
| services in more detail.
|
| [0] https://www.billdietrich.me/SecureCommunication.html?expa
| nda...
| EwanToo wrote:
| Fastmail does it all, you can have one user on the professional
| price and others on the basic plan and share a custom domain
|
| https://www.fastmail.com/pricing/
| wrycoder wrote:
| One downside, apparently you can't use their (great) app on
| the basic plan and share the domain with the master user.
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