[HN Gopher] Police officer plays Taylor Swift song to keep a vid...
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       Police officer plays Taylor Swift song to keep a video off YouTube
        
       Author : mychele
       Score  : 329 points
       Date   : 2021-07-01 18:07 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theverge.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theverge.com)
        
       | throwawaycities wrote:
       | Maybe the officer will have a great YC application answer for the
       | time he hacked a system.
       | 
       | Lots of people here upset with the officer's tactic, but he
       | didn't interfere with any right to record. If anyone is at fault
       | it is YouTube for preemptively taking down videos containing
       | copyright that fall within the Fair Use Doctrine...of course that
       | is YouTube's legal right also, they don't have to host anything.
       | 
       | If it were my video, and if it were actually important to share
       | online for one reason or another, I would look at it like an
       | opportunity to request a limited license from the copyright
       | holder to post the video...then they would have a great YC
       | application also.
        
         | rocqua wrote:
         | Its not that the tactic is scummy.
         | 
         | Its that police officers use tactics to prevent recordings of
         | themselves being uploaded and spread. The fact that they
         | explicitly go out of their way to avoid accountability is bad.
         | It is bad because, given the privileges we give police, a
         | strong force of accountability is needed.
         | 
         | This situation is worsened by the fact that this happened at a
         | hearing where police conduct was the subject. There already are
         | doubts in that community about police conduct. If they close
         | ranks, that suggests there is indeed something wrong.
         | Certainly, it means the relationship between police and the
         | community is becoming more and more adversarial, and police
         | aren't trying to bridge that gap. That is simply bad.
        
           | nextlevelwizard wrote:
           | I completely disagree. Police are people too and as much as
           | you are allowed to film them I can't imagine another country
           | where people are shoving their phones into the faces of the
           | officers. Just take couple steps back and there is no
           | problem.
           | 
           | I won't argue about the police actions in US. I've said my
           | piece on the matter.
        
         | sixothree wrote:
         | He _did_ interfere with their ability to share the video.
        
       | peeters wrote:
       | Is there some kind of centralized review system for police
       | departments in the US? I try to be cognizant of confirmation
       | bias, but the amount of news I read about this particular force
       | makes me think it's particularly bad even among US forces.
       | 
       | As a Canadian the most prominent in my memory is when the Alameda
       | county sheriff's office outright lied about circumstances
       | involving Masai Ujiri (president of the Toronto Raptors) and one
       | of their deputies at the 2019 NBA Final.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masai_Ujiri#2019_NBA_Finals_in...
        
         | sixothree wrote:
         | This country was founded on checks and balances. And currently
         | the people who have the most control over whether we are
         | allowed to live and how we do that have zero checks whatsoever.
         | This needs to change.
        
         | jdgoesmarching wrote:
         | Nope, and it's why police regularly get away with abuses of
         | power that would have (rightfully) landed me in prison if I
         | tried it while deployed in Afghanistan.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | wcarss wrote:
       | 30 Rock was ahead of the curve on this one!
       | 
       | Some of the episode Operation Righteous Cowboy Lightning[1] has
       | the central characters singing an argument to each other to the
       | tune of 'Uptown Girl' by Billy Joel, to stop a reality tv show
       | that's following them from being able to air the footage, due to
       | the copyright burden it would cause on them.
       | 
       | Of course reality is far more tragic.
       | 
       | 1 -
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Righteous_Cowboy_Lig...
        
       | theshadowknows wrote:
       | This seems like a great use case for a mobile app that can use ML
       | to "clean" content from video like that
        
       | PragmaticPulp wrote:
       | The actual video is available on YouTube if you want to watch for
       | yourself, Taylor Swift music included:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmZmo81Cdcc
       | 
       | Apparently the strategy doesn't work.
        
         | bugfix wrote:
         | You can upload it to YouTube, but you can't monetize it.
         | 
         | I've seen some videos of people following officers around with
         | a camera and harassing them trying to get some sort of
         | response, so they can post the video on their Instagram/YouTube
         | and make money from ads.
        
         | lucideer wrote:
         | > _Apparently the strategy doesn 't work._
         | 
         | Yet. Take-downs are carried out somewhat arbitrarily. The point
         | is that there's no guarantee it will continue to be available.
        
         | ALittleLight wrote:
         | Good example of the Streisand Effect. This YouTube channel
         | currently has 89 subscribers. Most of their videos have less
         | than a hundred views. Without this attempt by the officer
         | likely nobody would have seen, heard, or cared about some
         | argument over where a banner should or should not be placed.
        
       | ryanmarsh wrote:
       | Keep psychologically abusing police (getting in their face and
       | antagonizing them) instead of holding legislators and officials
       | accountable and see if society gets better or worse.
        
         | rocqua wrote:
         | What should legislators and officials change?
        
           | Forbo wrote:
           | End qualified immunity, for starters.
        
         | kingsuper20 wrote:
         | > instead of holding legislators and officials accountable
         | 
         | or perps.
         | 
         | A good idea for an experiment. We could try different things in
         | different places (states?) and see what is what.
         | 
         | I suppose the cops playing Taylor Swift could pay the ASCAP
         | mafia or whoever and be above board.
         | 
         | Generally, I'd say that if the public wants to watch all police
         | activity, they'll have to get used to sausage being made. Maybe
         | that's not such a bad thing, life isn't as clean and sanitary
         | as you might think from a cubicle.
        
       | spoonjim wrote:
       | This is the action of someone who has already planned in advance
       | how to suppress the evidence of their abuse of authority.
        
       | 015a wrote:
       | To some degree I understand the cop's position. The internet is
       | an insanely dangerous echo chamber. The vast, VAST majority of
       | police interactions are not that. The vast majority of police
       | interactions are well-meaning officers maintaining public order.
       | This doesn't excuse the interactions which _are_ unrighteous and
       | deserve to be exposed, possibly including the interaction that
       | these people were protesting.
       | 
       | The officer here was, to my view, the more sane one. He said you
       | could record. If something happened bad enough to justify
       | publishing the video to expose the interaction, a little Taylor
       | Swift music shouldn't stop that dissemination of information.
       | What it can do is dampen Ambient Outrage; a citizen surveillance
       | state of uploading every police interaction out there to social
       | media for Internet Crazies to get angry about because Cops Are
       | Just Evil, where there is no nuance, no context, just outrage and
       | ad dollars for the protestors behind the uploads.
       | 
       | Its memey and sad that this is the lengths officers have to go
       | to. That's it. But if it works, especially in a situation when
       | the officer flat-out says "yeah you can record, that's fine"
       | (good on him!); I think their underlying rationale is perfectly
       | sound.
        
         | akersten wrote:
         | > when the officer flat-out says "yeah you can record, that's
         | fine" (good on him!);
         | 
         | The fact that he plays the copyrighted track is evidence that
         | his statement about "oh, sure, of course you can record ;)" was
         | not made in good faith. I give the officer zero benefit of the
         | doubt here. Transparency is necessary in all police
         | interactions in public, not just the ones that are "bad enough
         | to excuse a little Taylor Swift." Cops can cry me a river about
         | the internet outrage machine.
        
           | 015a wrote:
           | You are conflating the Court of Public Opinion with the Court
           | of Law.
           | 
           | The Court of Public Opinion is the court that drives teens to
           | suicide through internet bullying, that accused the wrong man
           | of bombing the Boston Marathon, and killing students at Sandy
           | Hook, even suggesting Sandy Hook didn't happen. That's the
           | internet.
           | 
           | The standards for evidence on the internet are low, and
           | tempers are high. Transparency in "all" public police
           | interactions isn't necessary, just like transparency in "all"
           | doctor interactions isn't necessary in order to judge doctor
           | competency. Its an infuriating distraction; it gives you an
           | excuse to be angry about everything. And moreover; media
           | outlets fuel this outrage machine by purposefully omitting
           | context and nuance in order to drive clicks.
           | 
           | You believe you're using a critical eye to analyze these
           | situations. You're not. This is undeniable, because it is
           | difficult even for the people there, at the scene, to analyze
           | a complex situation like these critically, to have all the
           | information, and understand if the right call was or was not
           | made, let alone someone sitting in a dark room in their
           | basement a thousand miles away getting all of their
           | information from Buzzfeed and The Verge.
           | 
           | Its the job of the Court of Law to look past the Taylor
           | Swift; they're held to a higher standard, just as officers
           | themselves are. That doesn't mean mistakes aren't made. But
           | those mistakes are not an excuse to break the system and
           | raise tensions in every police interaction. This will only
           | lead to more violence.
        
             | jfengel wrote:
             | If the goal is to reduce the violence level to the point
             | that only the police are committing violence, then that is
             | not a good goal.
             | 
             | The issue here is that people have justifiable reason to
             | think that the police themselves are breaking the law, in
             | very brazen ways because the system that should hold them
             | to account has broken down. When the system that maintains
             | order breaks down, there is going to be violence, and
             | trying to contain that violence to just the ones with the
             | badges and guns is not a better outcome.
             | 
             | Reducing tensions at this point must begin with police not
             | supporting every single police act of violence, no matter
             | how obvious. Until that happens, anything that people do
             | will be considered "raising tensions". Since the situation
             | is lose-lose for them, you're the one who's going to have
             | to reconsider what outcome you want.
        
           | DennisAleynikov wrote:
           | the playing of the song doesn't make the recording of the
           | video any less factual or truthful.
           | 
           | it would just be harder to publish on youtube itself and
           | there are other social medias
        
         | moate wrote:
         | Bad take is bad.
         | 
         | It's not the cop's job to do prevent this video from getting
         | onto YoutTube. We have a whole SLEW of legislative channels
         | that could be used to "protect" cops from people recording
         | them. Don't want videos of cops being posted on the internet?
         | Contact your local representative and have them sponsor a law.
         | 
         | Also, in an environment in which trust with the police has been
         | eroded to the point of rioting because people feel the cops are
         | dishonest and hiding bad behavior, admitting on camera "I'm
         | trying to hide my behavior from scrutiny" is about the worst
         | thing you can do, and will get a national publication to pick
         | you up.
         | 
         | The cop has a police union, qualified immunity, and the entire
         | law enforcement segment of the government to protect him. It's
         | assumed that whatever his report said happened is what
         | happened. Protesters only have cameras to prove their side of
         | the story.
         | 
         | (edited for spelling/grammar mistake)
        
           | jwond wrote:
           | > Don't want videos of cops being posted on the internet?
           | Contact your local representative and have them sponsor a
           | law.
           | 
           | What would a law look like that would prevent people from
           | posting videos of police officers on the internet while also
           | complying with the First Amendment?
        
             | moate wrote:
             | It wouldn't. It's impossible. People want unconstitutional
             | things all the time though, and sometimes they even make
             | them into laws. Then they go to the SCOTUS and lose.
             | 
             | But you can do it.
        
               | floren wrote:
               | > People want unconstitutional things all the time
               | though, and sometimes they even make them into laws. Then
               | they go to the SCOTUS and lose.
               | 
               | And there's no penalty for it, either. You get to
               | suppress whatever you want for however long it takes to
               | reach the Supreme Court, and if the law gets struck down,
               | well, at least you stopped those abortion clinics/gun
               | owners/protesters/whatever for 5 years and you can push
               | through another law next month.
        
               | moate wrote:
               | My personal "favorites" have been some of the abortion
               | ban laws that know they're unconstitutional but are
               | passed and sit there "pending the overturning of Roe v.
               | Wade".
               | 
               | Like, bro, you made an illegal law and you know it
               | because you said "this law is illegal...for now."
        
           | 015a wrote:
           | No one is suggesting that recording the police should be
           | disallowed. I'd argue its a critically important piece of
           | balance between the police and citizens; at worst, it can
           | tell a different angle of the same story, and at best it can
           | fight against corruption which _does_ exist (e.g. not wearing
           | body cams, lying, computer glitch lost the bodycam footage,
           | etc).
           | 
           | The line is drawn where that footage is distributed and used.
           | Unfortunately, that's less a line, and more of a hazy,
           | impossible to legislate boundary.
           | 
           | A courtroom is, undeniably, the best place. This is where
           | this footage should be used; as one piece of evidence in a
           | very long-term narrative about what happened and who is at
           | fault.
           | 
           | A neutral site whose entire purpose is to document encounters
           | with the police in an almost database-like format? Maybe
           | there too. Transparency does matter. Dissemination can
           | matter, especially in instances of extreme police brutality
           | or corruption, which does happen (especially outside
           | developed nations).
           | 
           | YouTube? Facebook? Twitter? No. Stop making YouTube the
           | single place for all internet video. Stop letting the
           | algorithm make you angry. It won't do it for you. It will
           | surface videos which make you angry. You share those videos.
           | Like a virus, the outrage spreads. What's the plan? Be angry?
           | Tear the system down, or let it tear you down? Defund the
           | police? Get him fired? So, Destruction in any form? All that
           | matters is revenge disguised in a veil of "making the world
           | better", but destruction never ends this way.
           | 
           | You believe you can escalate tension because "the police can
           | take it". Its still escalation, and they _can_ take it. Do
           | you want every encounter with a police officer to mean War?
           | Do you _enjoy_ the fact that officers approach cars pulled
           | over for speeding with their hands on their weapon? Do you
           | think this policy actually makes the world safer, or is it
           | self-defense in an unsafe world that actually increases the
           | probability of a negative outcome for citizens? A scale with
           | one pound on each side is balanced; a scale with a hundred
           | pounds on each side breaks.
        
         | darkerside wrote:
         | Yeah, I get that cops aren't very popular these days, but this
         | is a very clever hack, and I like to think that the HN crowd is
         | logical enough to appreciate it, regardless of the perpetrator.
        
           | SauciestGNU wrote:
           | It is a clever hack, and like other zero days we need to
           | implement a patch immediately. It is simply unacceptable that
           | police can start playing music and prevent their (mis)conduct
           | from being distributed on the most popular distribution
           | channels.
        
             | trophycase wrote:
             | What misconduct?
        
               | SauciestGNU wrote:
               | None in this case, but it's a tactic that can be employed
               | in conjunction with misconduct.
        
           | jfengel wrote:
           | It wasn't his idea. We've known about this for months.
           | 
           | And it didn't work. So it was neither original nor effective.
           | There's nothing to laud.
           | 
           | There were people who noted the cleverness of it months ago.
           | This is merely script-kiddie stuff... and ineffective at
           | that.
        
         | gregallan wrote:
         | I think it's a little misguided to praise the officer for
         | allowing them to film. It would be illegal for him to prevent
         | them from filming him performing his duties in a public place.
         | I also find it slightly ridiculous for you to characterize
         | citizens recording their interactions with police for their own
         | protection as a "citizen surveillance state." The citizens are
         | not the state. The police here are representatives of the state
         | and must be held to account in every interaction with
         | civilians. I don't deny that it's a high-pressure situation for
         | an individual to be in, and like you I find it hard to
         | personally fault him for his strategy to prevent going viral.
         | AFAIK it's legally fine, and ethically grey depending on his
         | exact intentions, which we can't really know. In this case
         | however, it's more likely to result in a Streisand effect.
         | 
         | Edit: on reading the rest of this thread I'm more convinced of
         | the dubious legality of the cop's playing music with the
         | expectation that the recording will be made public
        
           | 015a wrote:
           | > on reading the rest of this thread I'm more convinced of
           | the dubious legality of the cop's playing music with the
           | expectation that the recording will be made public
           | 
           | You're convinced by angry internet hobby-lawyers sitting in
           | their Aerons taking a quick break from writing HTML? This is
           | precisely the very low standard of evidence that the officer
           | involved here is trying to short circuit.
        
             | gregallan wrote:
             | Note that I said dubious legality. I was just qualifying my
             | earlier statement that it was legally fine. Hopefully we'll
             | get a legal ruling on this sooner rather than later.
        
       | ortusdux wrote:
       | IIRC, a while back that the MPAA was pushing for a law that would
       | require video cameras to stop recording if they detected a
       | specific trigger. The intent was to prevent people from filming
       | in movie theaters, similar to the EURion watermarking
       | constellation found on most bank notes. I can't imagine how
       | things would have turned out if that technology had become
       | standard and inevitably abused.
        
         | varispeed wrote:
         | In many Android phones you can't record calls and call
         | recording apps don't work.
         | 
         | When I recently reported a crime police didn't show up and when
         | I asked them to come for a follow up, they lied that I have not
         | asked anyone to come. The lovely lady even said "We listened to
         | your call and you didn't ask us to come when incident
         | happened."
        
           | CyberShadow wrote:
           | The reason is mostly technical. Depending on the phone, call
           | audio isn't implemented as much in software as wired directly
           | (in some variable degree) to the radio hardware.
           | 
           | This is why the quality and success rate of call recording
           | apps varies - it depends how many kinds of configurations the
           | app authors managed to implement support / workarounds for.
        
             | tshaddox wrote:
             | Is that so? I can make phone calls with my iPhone on
             | wireless Bluetooth headphones. Does the radio hardware
             | directly stream to whatever headphones my iPhone is paired
             | with? I suppose it's possible, but it strikes me as
             | unlikely.
        
               | CyberShadow wrote:
               | Judging from that call recording apps apparently need to
               | implement support for recording calls over Bluetooth
               | separately, I would conclude that this does go over a
               | different path, but still needs to be handled explicitly.
        
             | zinekeller wrote:
             | As some who tinkers phones, this is very true, especially
             | with phones equipped with Qualcomm chipsets (note that
             | VoLTE and VoWiFi _are_ decoded in software though).
        
             | effingwewt wrote:
             | Bullshit. They break it with updates on phones where it
             | worked just fine. They also removed access to root folders
             | on a whim. This sucked for those of us with locked
             | bootloaders, without root we now lost access to those
             | folders and the contents therein.
        
               | CyberShadow wrote:
               | > They also removed access to root folders on a whim.
               | 
               | I don't know what you mean by this exactly, but from the
               | manufacturer's view, any method of allowing the
               | modification of the operating system software is a
               | vulnerability (because the same could be done to e.g.
               | install rootkits). This is why many devices allow
               | unlocking the bootloader (as the official way to modify
               | the OS) but announce this loudly on boot.
        
               | zinekeller wrote:
               | What is you country (of your SIM card)? If it's Asia, I'm
               | definitely sure that circumventing that restriction (even
               | analog means) _will_ get you to jail.
               | 
               | Edit: also some parts of the US!
        
               | zinekeller wrote:
               | Sadly, the HN can't handle valid concerns.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | varispeed wrote:
             | No, I am sure it is intentional. I have call recording
             | working on my phone, but I know for a fact the pending
             | software update I have disables that functionality.
             | 
             | The success rate varies, because of the cat and mouse game
             | with manufacturers.
        
           | goldenkey wrote:
           | Google just broke call recording again on my Pixel 4 with
           | their latest Android update. They've done this multiple times
           | in the last few years. Truly deplorable..
        
         | jiveturkey wrote:
         | that more or less happened. all BD players required to
         | implement audio fingerprinting
        
           | cwkoss wrote:
           | What is BD in this context?
        
             | LegitShady wrote:
             | I assume blu-ray disc
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinavia
        
               | dec0dedab0de wrote:
               | I am surprised I never heard of this before. It's a
               | watermark not a fingerprint. The audio would have a
               | watermark embedded in it, and if the player finds the
               | watermark it requires the disk to have encryption. That
               | would be pretty neat if it wasn't awful.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | zamadatix wrote:
           | I'd lean towards "less", a unique fingerprint provides
           | completely different functionality than a kill sound. The
           | only connection is the MPAA liked both.
        
       | cratermoon wrote:
       | They police and federal law enforcement did this in Portland
       | during the BLM protests last summer.
        
       | NazakiAid wrote:
       | Quite funny that this ends up making the video more popular
       | because of the Streisand effect. Would be scary if police always
       | had this technique though when recording as maybe it would end up
       | becoming more normalised so the Streisand effect wouldn't happen.
        
       | calgoo wrote:
       | This sounds like a great ml app idea: Remove music from audio
       | while keeping the other voices. I wonder how hard it would be to
       | keep them separate.
        
         | MereInterest wrote:
         | Spleeter [1] does a really good job of it. It can separate out
         | the vocals, accompaniment, drums, bass, and piano. It does a
         | really phenomenal job at it, though there can be a bit of
         | reverb in the vocals if there's a lot of reverb in the base.
         | Splitting out individual vocalists is a lot harder, and I
         | haven't found any pre-trained models that manage it. There's a
         | lot of speaker separation [2] models, but they are trained on
         | separate sentences overlapping.
         | 
         | [1] https://github.com/deezer/spleeter/releases [2]
         | https://paperswithcode.com/task/speaker-separation
        
         | heavyset_go wrote:
         | If you know what song is playing, then it's somewhat trivial to
         | remove it from the audio, no ML needed.
        
       | pope_meat wrote:
       | That's pretty clever, they know that an individual with a video
       | can be dealt with a lot easier than a viral video where the whole
       | public gets to see the behavior.
       | 
       | I'm glad some precincts burned down last summer. I'm glad a bunch
       | of cops quit, and the ones remaining are all on edge, maybe
       | negative reinforcement works on them too xD
        
         | BitwiseFool wrote:
         | >"I'm glad some precincts burned down last summer. I'm glad a
         | bunch of cops quit, and the ones remaining are all on edge,
         | maybe negative reinforcement works on them too xD"
         | 
         | Be careful what you wish for.....
         | 
         | Edit: You may hate the cops, but do you really think that mobs
         | will be more accountable than the police?
        
           | dragonwriter wrote:
           | > You may hate the cops, but do you really think that mobs
           | will be more accountable than the police?
           | 
           | To the currently politically powerful who disproportionately
           | control what is done by government, no.
           | 
           | To people on the other side of that power imbalance? Well,
           | who do you think the mobs _are_ , and why do they use that
           | mechanism instead of the formal political system to attempt
           | to impose accountability?
           | 
           | Obviously, not a desirable durable state of affairs, the
           | desirable condition is to resolve the power imbalance in the
           | formal systems. But if you can't convince those who control
           | those systems that the systems they control will be forcibly
           | rendered irrelevant if the imbalance in them persists, that
           | is unlikely.
        
           | brewdad wrote:
           | > Edit: You may hate the cops, but do you really think that
           | mobs will be more accountable than the police?
           | 
           | Considering cops currently face accountability that
           | approaches 0, yes.
        
             | BitwiseFool wrote:
             | I just don't how see burning down precinct buildings leads
             | to anything better. A controversial opinion, it seems.
        
               | cforrester wrote:
               | It's not the burning that directly leads to something
               | better. It's more like a natural consequence caused by
               | failing to adequately address people's need for something
               | better; people who feel powerless in their quest for
               | justice will treasure morsels of that justice whereever
               | they can get it, such as direct attacks on the public
               | institutions suppressing them.
               | 
               | The good that can come from it is motivation: it's more
               | clear than ever that gradual reform is not occurring, and
               | something has to change at a fundamental level. Enabling
               | people to get justice civilly will sharply reduce the
               | number of people resorting to incivility.
        
               | SauciestGNU wrote:
               | Well, it may not be the most constructive way of dealing
               | with police abuses, but it's one of the vanishingly few
               | consequences police have faced for their malfeasance and
               | unfettered violence.
        
           | jessaustin wrote:
           | USA police have shot and killed roughly a thousand people a
           | year for many decades. Over that time period three police
           | have been convicted of murder. [0] I can't imagine a less
           | accountable mob. If nothing else, a greater percentage of any
           | _mobile vulgus_ would feel guilty and turn themselves in.
           | 
           | [0] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/police-officers-
           | convicte...
        
           | lucideer wrote:
           | I don't follow; what need the gp be careful of?
           | 
           | (I do see the post is now flagged but presume that's users
           | disagreeing & abusing the flag button as it's within
           | guidelines; I see what users may disagree with but still
           | don't see what they should be "careful" about)
        
             | BitwiseFool wrote:
             | I copied/quoted the part from the GP that stood out to me.
             | I was just gobsmacked that the GP was glad precincts were
             | burned down. I'm weary of mob and vigilante "justice".
        
               | lucideer wrote:
               | Ah; the edit makes more sense.
               | 
               | We're each entitled to our own perspective, but fwiw, I
               | think you'll struggle to find any cohort less accountable
               | than the police. Whereas "the mob", being traditionally a
               | phrase used broadly by established powers to derogate the
               | opposition, is almost by definition always the cohort
               | held most to account in any given situation.
               | 
               | Furthermore, perhaps one of the biggest false assumptions
               | many seem to have about abolition movements is that there
               | isn't reasoned proposals for (existing or new)
               | accountable institutions to fill potential voids left by
               | abolition.
        
               | BitwiseFool wrote:
               | Understandable. I'm coming at this from a "violence
               | begets violence" perspective and my fear is escalation.
        
               | lucideer wrote:
               | I agree. I've just seen evidence of police being the
               | primary source of escalation too many times.
        
       | throwaway29303 wrote:
       | Hrm. Upgrades.
        
       | LinuxBender wrote:
       | Perhaps a work around would be to post without audio and add text
       | captions, fully accepting that if the people in the video are
       | wearing masks, the captions could turn into _bad lipreading_
       | memes.
        
         | jopsen wrote:
         | Or just use mask/obfuscate the audio, and face while your at
         | it.
         | 
         | In some ways, the whole debate could be more civil if officers
         | faces and voices were blurred.
         | 
         | After all, it's not really the individual officer who is at
         | fault: it's the system that trained the officer, and the
         | department policies that require officers to apply unreasonable
         | force.
         | 
         | There are also many other contributing factors to policing
         | issues in the US. But the argument that it's just "a few bad
         | apples" seems like deflection to me. And if it's not just a few
         | bad apples, then why do we need to publicly shame individual
         | officers who are just doing their job as they were trained to
         | do, in line with department policies? (Doesn't such public
         | shaming just create opposition and resentment, distracting from
         | the issue at hand)
         | 
         | Just saying... in other countries media don't go around
         | posting/shaming people publicly if there is no conviction.
         | (Sure, there is a balance, a few exceptions, and lots of
         | nuance)
        
           | kemonocode wrote:
           | > In some ways, the whole debate could be more civil if
           | officers faces and voices were blurred.
           | 
           | Police have no expectation of privacy when performing their
           | official duties, at least in the US, so that should be a non-
           | issue. If they don't want to bring consequences unto
           | themselves for what they're doing, then perhaps they should
           | stop doing such things or think really hard about their
           | chosen career path.
           | 
           | > After all, it's not really the individual officer who is at
           | fault: it's the system that trained the officer, and the
           | department policies that require officers to apply
           | unreasonable force.
           | 
           | At some point you can't just blame "the system" and there
           | needs to be individual accountability. Mayhaps if they like
           | the lack of it and with less bodily risk, they could pursue
           | politics instead.
        
         | lucideer wrote:
         | Given the tools available now to do speech replacement/
         | deepfakes / etc. I wonder is there anything open-source
         | available for song-replacement.
         | 
         | This is actually a problem I've seen on multiple (more
         | innocuous) occasions: so-called "content-creator" youtubers
         | casually mentioning that they had to throw away clips or
         | rerecord sections during editing after realising there was
         | copyrighted background noise. So I'd say there's definitely a
         | market.
        
           | Hamuko wrote:
           | It'd probably be better to do a vocal boost to the max and
           | try to silence the music part as much as you can.
           | 
           | Although I don't really know how often it's going to be
           | necessary. Here I am watching this police officer blast some
           | garbled mess on a YouTube video.
        
             | lucideer wrote:
             | A straight vocal boost would change the audio profile of
             | the overall scene pretty significantly, so I'm thinking
             | some tool that has less impact would be desirable.
             | 
             | > _I don 't really know how often it's going to be
             | necessary. Here I am watching this police officer blast
             | some garbled mess_
             | 
             | I don't know how it'd fare in this instance but continuous
             | improvements to the Shazam-esque algorithms used by
             | copyright-flagging bots might make this less and less
             | likely to go undetected.
        
           | eqtn wrote:
           | There is "Mute song only(beta)" in YouTube which says "Remove
           | the claimed song only, keeping the rest of the sound. This
           | option usually takes longer and might not work if the song is
           | hard to remove"
        
           | 988747 wrote:
           | But if you do "song-replacement" then the video is now
           | edited, and loses all credibility.
        
             | hirundo wrote:
             | So post the video with the copyright-material-subtracted
             | audio, plus a link to the unedited audio.
        
             | lucideer wrote:
             | There's a reasonable argument that deepfakes are
             | challenging our ability to rely on video evidence in
             | general, but saying any editing at all removes credibility
             | is pretty out there. Almost every video on the internet has
             | been edited in some way.
        
               | pc86 wrote:
               | Are there deepfakes out there that can withstand even a
               | cursory technical interrogation? Most of them are
               | extremely obvious once you've seen two or three.
        
               | lucideer wrote:
               | While it's blatantly obvious from the context and subject
               | matter that they're fake, I did find quite a few of the
               | Sassy Justice[0] series' examples to be quite convincing
               | from a technical standpoint (I imagine they could have
               | been undetectable given more subtle context & subject
               | matter)
               | 
               | [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WfZuNceFDM
        
               | nextlevelwizard wrote:
               | Depends what you mean by "technical".
               | 
               | There are deep fakes that are good enough to fool some
               | humans. There are deep fakes that are good enough to pass
               | by some AI detection. Then there are some deep fakes that
               | can not pass either.
               | 
               | By definition this is unquatifiable problem since you
               | won't know how many deep fakes you aren't detecting since
               | you aren't detecting them.
        
             | nextlevelwizard wrote:
             | Stupid question: How do you know that the video isn't
             | "edited"?
             | 
             | It clearly has been edited to add the subtitles and the
             | watermark to the top left corner and it has fade to black
             | and then fade in their logo and donation link at the end.
        
         | grahamburger wrote:
         | Yeah this seems like an easy way around it. Post the video with
         | subtitles and no audio, and a link to the original video hosted
         | on a PeerTube instance or something.
        
       | gumby wrote:
       | Would be simpler to simply play 4'33" on a continuous loop.
       | 
       | For those who'd not know the song:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4'33''
        
         | babyshake wrote:
         | I don't think it would be possible to verify this when making a
         | copyright claim. But along these lines, if you could play a
         | loop of audio that would not be recognized by people around you
         | or not recognized as music but could be recognized by an
         | algorithm, then you could use this strategy without anyone
         | knowing.
        
           | ttt0 wrote:
           | YouTube striked white noise with a copyright claim:
           | https://www.neowin.net/news/youtubes-algorithms-strike-
           | white...
        
           | frumper wrote:
           | verification doesn't seem to be very high on the priority
           | list of copyright claims
        
       | scotuswroteus wrote:
       | Isn't that video evidence that the police officer is violating
       | the copyright?
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | otterley wrote:
         | It would be hilarious (and also poetic justice) if Taylor Swift
         | (or whomever the copyright holder is) sued the Alameda County
         | Sheriff's department for copyright violation and demanded
         | maximum statutory penalties.
         | 
         | EDIT: Bummer, it looks like this route is not available to the
         | copyright holder, since states have sovereign immunity against
         | copyright infringement claims. See _Allen v. Cooper_, 589 U.S.
         | ____ (2020).
        
           | jollybean wrote:
           | It would be poetic justice of a kind, because I'll bet that
           | they find a cop playing music for himself, even while
           | interacting with others is probably not breaking copyright,
           | whereas the person filming and publishing the situation
           | probably is, i.e. an attempt to 'press' the police would end
           | up more than likely just affirming the situation with a
           | specific judicial ruling. It'd be interesting to see how a
           | judge ruled however.
        
             | mcguire wrote:
             | " _...whereas the person filming and publishing the
             | situation probably is..._ "
             | 
             | I would expect most judges to take a very dim view of that
             | argument.
             | 
             | Youtube's algorithms, however, will do what they're written
             | to do...
        
             | robbrown451 wrote:
             | The person filming it is not violating copyright in any way
             | that would hold up in court. They are not cutting into the
             | market for Blank Space. People aren't going to watch the
             | video so they don't have to pay Taylor Swift. See https://e
             | n.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use#4._Effect_upon_work's...
             | ("courts consider whether the use in question acts as a
             | direct market substitute for the original work.")
             | 
             | The only thing it is doing is creating a false positive in
             | YouTube's copyright protection algorithm.
        
               | mcguire wrote:
               | I would expect the courts to also object to using
               | copyright law to suppress other legal rights.
               | 
               | But yeah, YouTube's policies and mechanisms don't care
               | about the fine points of law.
        
               | scotuswroteus wrote:
               | Lol, I'm pretty sure a Court would have difficult time
               | finding that the "purpose" of the cop's use here is one
               | that the fair use doctrine was codified to protect
        
             | sjg007 wrote:
             | It might be considered a public performance. In contrast to
             | playing the radio in your backyard.
        
             | pseudalopex wrote:
             | He didn't play it for himself.
        
               | robbrown451 wrote:
               | He played it in the normal way you play music, where
               | others can hear it. He isn't responsible for the fact
               | that it is being filmed and shown more widely.
               | 
               | That said, he should be fired for reasons that have
               | nothing to do with copyright. It is an obnoxious attempt
               | to avoid accountability.
        
               | pseudalopex wrote:
               | The recording isn't what made it public performance.
               | 
               | The normal way you play music is for your own enjoyment.
               | It's incidental if other people overhear. He said that
               | wasn't what he did.
        
               | chipotle_coyote wrote:
               | > He isn't responsible for the fact that it is being
               | filmed and shown more widely.
               | 
               | IANAL, but I think this would be a tenuous claim. If I
               | see you with a camera and do something while you are
               | pointing the camera at me -- with the express stated
               | intent of having you film me doing it, no less -- I don't
               | think I would get to (credibly) claim "hey, not my
               | responsibility, I just happened to be doing that thing
               | and you happened to catch me doing it on camera."
        
               | jollybean wrote:
               | Just the opposite.
               | 
               | The cop has no clue whether or not the person is actually
               | filming or not, no clue what the person intends to do
               | with the video or audio, and most importantly - has no
               | involvement or control in either the recording, editing,
               | licensing or distribution of the material.
               | 
               | There's no way in high heaven that someone's going to be
               | construed to be in violation of the 'distribution'
               | artifact of copyright law if they have no participation
               | or really even awareness of the distribution itself.
               | 
               | This thread is full of absurd arguments.
        
               | jollybean wrote:
               | He was playing it for himself, and those in his immediate
               | surrounding, and there's almost no chance that's going to
               | be considered some kind of violation.
               | 
               | He's not making a public production or broadcasting
               | either - the person doing the filming is doing that.
        
               | pseudalopex wrote:
               | He said he didn't play it for himself. His immediate
               | surrounding and those in it are exactly what would make
               | it public performance.
        
               | jollybean wrote:
               | That's not a public performance.
               | 
               | Otherwise using a radio would basically be illegal.
               | 
               | Playing music for people waiting in the lobby at the
               | station, or restaurant patrons, DJ at a club or event ->
               | public performance.
               | 
               | Playing music at your desk/office/car/workspace/radio for
               | yourself and whoever you happen to be working with at the
               | moment -> not a public performance.
               | 
               | If you want to make a more eccentric claim, you should
               | try to find some examples of case law to support it.
               | 
               | So here is the relevant case law from the Supreme Court
               | back to the 19th century [1]
               | 
               | None of it really comes close to establishing that
               | someone playing a radio for themselves and those in front
               | of them would be tantamount to public performance.
               | 
               | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_S
               | upreme_...
        
             | scotuswroteus wrote:
             | There is no such exception for publicly playing a
             | copyrighted work "for oneself"
        
           | scotuswroteus wrote:
           | Then how is Disney suing school boards for showing the Lion
           | King?
        
         | stale2002 wrote:
         | No it's not.
         | 
         | Nobody is going to be charged for playing a song on their phone
         | in public.
         | 
         | That's just not going to happen.
        
         | DevKoala wrote:
         | I don't think so because the officer isn't posting the video
         | online. Unless you think it violates copyright to play music in
         | public spaces.
        
           | mannerheim wrote:
           | Public performances violate copyright.
        
           | lucideer wrote:
           | IANAL but this typically comes down to the definition of
           | broadcast and one could certainly argue that the officer's
           | intent is to broadcast if they're playing it specifically
           | because they know they're being recorded for public
           | broadcast.
        
             | parineum wrote:
             | The officers is explicitly attempting to not broadcast it,
             | is he not?
        
               | jazzyjackson wrote:
               | Broadcasting the music performance live in public to
               | prevent broadcasting the video after the fact.
        
               | throaway3141593 wrote:
               | The officer is playing the music knowing that an attempt
               | will be made to distribute the video, while _hoping_ but
               | not knowing for sure that the video will be blocked from
               | distribution. The video could appear on one of many other
               | sites that do a poorer job of screening media or that don
               | 't even attempt to do so.
        
           | heavyset_go wrote:
           | You need a license to play or perform music and other types
           | of copyrighted media in public.
        
             | DevKoala wrote:
             | Is this true? I play music on the street sometimes. Am I
             | violating the law?
             | 
             | Seriously concerned. Not that I want to defend the cop (o
             | haven't watched the video), but I feel that if we start
             | enforcing these restrictions we are going to get ourselves
             | into a rabbit hole of no fun.
        
               | heavyset_go wrote:
               | Talk to a lawyer about it. I have a musician in the
               | family who performs at venues and also likes to busk, and
               | they pay some subscription fee for access to a library of
               | music they're allowed to legally perform.
        
           | GuB-42 wrote:
           | I don't know about the US but I remember a story where a
           | garage got sued for copyright violation because its employees
           | had the radio playing loudly (as expected in a noisy shop)
           | and it could be heard outside, and therefore, it was
           | considered a public performance. I think it was in France, or
           | maybe Germany, where the right performance rights collecting
           | society (SACEM for France, GEMA for Germany) is particularly
           | aggressive.
           | 
           | It probably wouldn't have passed judgment, but it was enough
           | to scare the shop into forbidding its employees to play music
           | at work.
        
           | dragonwriter wrote:
           | > Unless you think it violates copyright to play music in
           | public spaces.
           | 
           | Generally, yes:
           | 
           | https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/106
           | 
           | ---begin quote---
           | 
           | 17 U.S. Code SS 106 - Exclusive rights in copyrighted works
           | 
           | Subject to sections 107 through 122, the owner of copyright
           | under this title has the exclusive rights to do and to
           | authorize any of the following:
           | 
           | (1) to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or
           | phonorecords;
           | 
           | (2) to prepare derivative works based upon the copyrighted
           | work;
           | 
           | (3) to distribute copies or phonorecords of the copyrighted
           | work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or
           | by rental, lease, or lending;
           | 
           |  _(4) in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and
           | choreographic works, pantomimes, and motion pictures and
           | other audiovisual works, to perform the copyrighted work
           | publicly;
           | 
           | (5) in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and
           | choreographic works, pantomimes, and pictorial, graphic, or
           | sculptural works, including the individual images of a motion
           | picture or other audiovisual work, to display the copyrighted
           | work publicly; and
           | 
           | (6) in the case of sound recordings, to perform the
           | copyrighted work publicly by means of a digital audio
           | transmission._
           | 
           | ---end quote---
           | 
           | There are some exceptions to this regarding specific
           | permitted performances at 17 USC SS 110 as well as the
           | general exception to copyright in fair use at 17 USC SS 107,
           | but I don't see an obvious argument that these or any other
           | copyright exceptions apply to this use for this purpose. (I
           | can see an argument that the police use would _render_ the
           | recording and reuse by the person recording the officer fair
           | use, but that 's not an issue here, because we already know
           | that copyright protection schemes by platforms are hostile to
           | fair use.)
        
             | robbrown451 wrote:
             | Courts would never in a million years call this a copyright
             | violation. If it was, anyone walking down the street
             | playing music would be violating copyright.
             | 
             | Copyright law has a lot of subtlety and courts have to make
             | reasonable decisions. Considering this a violation is not
             | in any way a reasonable decision. Taylor Swift and her
             | record company are not harmed.
             | 
             | Others probably are harmed (the public), but that isn't a
             | copyright thing.
        
               | mannerheim wrote:
               | > If it was, anyone walking down the street playing music
               | would be violating copyright.
               | 
               | I believe this is the case, yes.
        
               | jcranmer wrote:
               | > If it was, anyone walking down the street playing music
               | would be violating copyright.
               | 
               | It would indeed be so, if you were playing it with the
               | express intent of having others listen to it.
               | 
               | Also, never underestimate the eagerness of the
               | entertainment industry to decide that you need license to
               | play something.
        
               | dragonwriter wrote:
               | > Courts would never in a million years call this a
               | copyright violation. If it was, anyone walking down the
               | street playing music would be violating copyright.
               | 
               | Because purpose is an element of Fair Use analysis, and
               | because fair use is an exception to copyright, and
               | because the purpose differs radically between the two
               | cases, there are a whole lot of other assumptions you
               | need to make for this "if...then..." statement to hold.
        
         | Veserv wrote:
         | No, that is video evidence of a police officer admitting to one
         | count of willfully concealing a video recording during an
         | investigation with the intent to prevent its content from being
         | discovered which, if I am reading California Penal Code 135 PC
         | - Destroying or Concealing Evidence [1] correctly, qualifies as
         | a misdemeanor punishable by 6 months in jail.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/defense/penal-code/135/
        
           | jollybean wrote:
           | The level of bizarre mental gymnastics employed by the
           | otherwise intelligent but obviously cop-hating HN crowd is
           | disturbing.
           | 
           | The cop isn't hiding anything.
           | 
           | YouTube, may decide not to publish something, and that's not
           | 'concealing' anything either.
           | 
           | There's almost a 0% chance that if this went to court on
           | copyright claims, that someone playing music while on the job
           | i.e. cop, insurance adjuster, home appraiser etc. is going to
           | be found in copyright violation.
           | 
           | There's almost a 100% chance that if you film people who are
           | listening to music - and that copyrighted music is in your
           | production ... that's it's going to be in violation.
           | 
           | It's not a perfect civil rights situation, because these laws
           | were not designed for that.
           | 
           | It just is what it is.
           | 
           | Probably they will have to make some policy change for this
           | issue.
        
           | wedn3sday wrote:
           | Not sure I agree with you, reading the opening lines of the
           | code, "that you know to be relevant to a trial, police
           | investigation or other legal proceedings." No trail or police
           | investigation happening means interfering with the video isnt
           | illegal.
        
             | Veserv wrote:
             | I agree that is the weakest element. Applicability largely
             | hinges on what qualifies as a "police investigation" or
             | "legal proceeding" which I have been unable to get a clear
             | answer on. But, from a layman's perspective, it seems like
             | a police interaction which may lead to a use of police
             | powers either should count or our legislative bodies should
             | change the law to make it count as that appears to be in
             | line with the spirit law to guarantee that all pertinent
             | evidence to a crime be discoverable.
        
         | posguy wrote:
         | This would constitute a public performance of a song, I doubt
         | he paid for a license.
        
           | oh_sigh wrote:
           | You don't need a public performance license to personally
           | consume music in public. Public performance licenses would be
           | for things like playing a song in a restaurant you run, or in
           | a retail store.
        
             | tnel77 wrote:
             | Cops are bad, so you are wrong.
        
             | akersten wrote:
             | He's not personally consuming - he's playing the music in
             | public for the purposes of performance (the audience) _and_
             | broadcast (he knows it is being recorded)! This is willful
             | and flagrant infringement.
        
               | stale2002 wrote:
               | No its not. Absolutely nobody, in the entire world, would
               | ever be brought to court because they played a couple
               | seconds of music, on their phone, while walking down the
               | street.
               | 
               | Don't pretend. Don't make up funny narratives, because
               | you think that a police officer "deserves" it.
               | 
               | This silly hypothetical just isn't going to happen. And
               | people are lying to themselves that something like that
               | would happen, because it sounds cool.
               | 
               | The law is not a piece of code that is run through your
               | computer, and if you can find some technicality, or "well
               | actuuuaaallly" argument, then it means that someone is
               | going to go to jail.
               | 
               | Instead, the law is interpreted by normal, human beings.
               | 
               | And any actual normal human being, is not going to fine
               | someone, or send someone to jail because they played a
               | couple seconds of a song, in a public street, on their
               | phone.
               | 
               | The technicalities, and debates, and loopholes that you
               | think that you found in the law simply do not matter.
        
               | clucas wrote:
               | You are probably right, but let's play it from the other
               | angle to see _why_ people are suggesting that they try to
               | pursue a copyright claim against the police, using your
               | post but turning it the other way:
               | 
               | ----
               | 
               | Absolutely nobody, in the entire world, would ever _have
               | a recording of police brutality taken off of youtube_
               | because _the police_ played a couple seconds of music, on
               | their phone, while walking down the street.
               | 
               | Don't pretend. Don't make up funny narratives, because
               | you think that _the recorder_ "deserves" it.
               | 
               | This silly hypothetical just isn't going to happen. And
               | people are lying to themselves that something like that
               | would happen, because it sounds cool.
               | 
               | The _youtube moderation_ is not a piece of code that is
               | run through your computer, and if you can find some
               | technicality, or  "well actuuuaaallly" argument, then it
               | means that someone is going to go _get their video
               | removed_.
               | 
               | Instead, the law is interpreted by normal, human beings.
               | 
               | And any actual normal human being, is not going to
               | _remove a video that is attempting to keep the police
               | accountable_ because they played a couple seconds of a
               | song, in a public street, on their phone.
               | 
               | The technicalities, and debates, and loopholes that you
               | think that you found in the _youtube algorithm_ simply do
               | not matter.
               | 
               | ----
               | 
               | Obviously the above does not describe reality. The police
               | seem to get to take advantage of the system to hide their
               | misdeed, but as you (probably correctly) point out,
               | citizens are NOT able to take advantage of the system to
               | expose police misdeeds. This is why people are angry, and
               | this is why you were downvoted.
        
               | fivestarman wrote:
               | "...send someone to jail because they played a couple
               | seconds of a song, in a public street, on their phone."
               | 
               | No one is saying this. You are leaving out a lot of
               | crucial details that have been brought up.
        
               | kube-system wrote:
               | Eh, knowing that something is being recorded is not
               | broadcasting.
        
               | SpaceManNabs wrote:
               | That might be hard to prove unless there is an unofficial
               | department email going around on tips and tricks to avoid
               | pesky recorders. Sorry for the cynicism.
        
               | mannerheim wrote:
               | He explicitly states his motive for playing the music on
               | tape.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | robbrown451 wrote:
               | No. It is being filmed without his consent. He is just
               | playing it for those immediately around him. That doesn't
               | count as a public performance.
               | 
               | By your logic, if someone is playing music in a park or
               | beach, I could start filming them and they'd have to turn
               | it off. Obviously that is ridiculous.
               | 
               | He should be fired for other reasons (making the
               | department look bad by attempting to avoid
               | accountability), but he is not violating copyright. Nor
               | would the person filming it be, since "courts consider
               | whether the use in question acts as a direct market
               | substitute for the original work", and this isn't. No one
               | is going to say "I'm not going to pay for Taylor Swift's
               | version because I can just watch this video of a cop
               | playing it on his phone" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fa
               | ir_use#4._Effect_upon_work's...
        
               | akersten wrote:
               | > He is just playing it for those immediately around him.
               | That doesn't count as a public performance
               | 
               | That literally _is_ the definition of  "public
               | performance." He is in public, playing for an audience
               | that is not his private close family and friends.
               | 
               | > By your logic, if someone is playing music in a park or
               | beach, I could start filming them and they'd have to turn
               | it off. Obviously that is ridiculous.
               | 
               | You can't perform publicly without the copyright holder's
               | permission regardless of whether someone is filming you.
               | You have to turn it off anyway, recording or not. I agree
               | that this is a ridiculous part of copyright law and
               | should not exist. I'm leveraging the system we have here
               | to fight oppression.
               | 
               | The fact that he plays it knowing that it is being filmed
               | for broadcast is what adds the "willful" piece to the
               | already "infringement" piece of the public performance.
               | 
               | I'm not making a normative argument here - copyright law
               | in the US is asinine and needs major reform. I'm just
               | combing through this like a determined prosecutor/RIAA
               | goon would, looking for the right charge.
        
               | oh_sigh wrote:
               | No, you're not looking at it like a prosecutor/RIAA goon
               | would, because they have not sued anyone ever for merely
               | playing music on their phone while standing in public.
               | 
               | What you're doing is taking a phrase which has a
               | contextual meaning within copyright law, looking at the
               | individual words of the phrase based on their common
               | usage, and then saying that your new understanding based
               | on the individual words is how copyright law actually
               | works.
               | 
               | If I drop my phone, and then walk into a McDonalds, am I
               | guilty of "breaking and entering"? That's what you're
               | doing here with "public performance"
        
               | akersten wrote:
               | > because they have not sued anyone ever for merely
               | playing music on their phone while standing in public.
               | 
               | But that's not (just) what the officer was doing - he was
               | playing music as background to his business operation,
               | which RIAA _have definitely_ sued establishments over[0].
               | If you 're playing music as a soundtrack for your
               | business (in this case, the business of law enforcement),
               | you need a license. Even in a non-business context, if
               | they had a chance to sue you for playing music in public,
               | they would. There just haven't been any
               | prominent/worthwhile cases for them to do so. Just
               | because it hasn't happened doesn't mean that isn't what
               | the law allows.
               | 
               | [0]: https://www.frantzward.com/news-blog/june-2017/let-
               | the-music...
        
               | googlryas wrote:
               | So by your expert understanding of the law, no person is
               | ever allowed to listen to music while working if someone
               | else happens to be near them. Gotcha.
        
               | jcranmer wrote:
               | https://www.bmi.com/faq/entry/what_is_a_public_performanc
               | e_o...
               | 
               | > A "public performance" of music is defined in U.S.
               | copyright law to include any music played outside a
               | normal circle of friends and family that occurs in any
               | public place.
               | 
               | This is a quote from a RIAA member explaining their
               | interpretation of public performance.
        
               | pseudalopex wrote:
               | He consented to recording when he became a police
               | officer.
               | 
               | Market effect is 1 of several factors courts consider for
               | fair use.
        
               | dragonwriter wrote:
               | > He is just playing it for those immediately around him.
               | That doesn't count as a public performance.
               | 
               | Yes, it does; most public performances other than
               | radio/TV broadcast are, by nature, only for those in the
               | immediate vincinity.
               | 
               | > By your logic, if someone is playing music in a park or
               | beach, I could start filming them and they'd have to turn
               | it off.
               | 
               | No, because asserting that this case, independent of how
               | other Fair Use factors might apply to it, doesn't fall
               | into Fair Use because its purpose is to suppress
               | commentary does not indicate that your counterfactual
               | would not.
        
               | oh_sigh wrote:
               | I'm not sure how it being recorded makes a difference. If
               | I'm listening to a CD and someone walks up and starts
               | filming me, would I need to stop listening to it because
               | the filmer might post it on youtube?
        
               | MrStonedOne wrote:
               | But thats not what happened.
               | 
               | If you knew you were being recorded, had reason to be
               | believed it would be broadcasted and your stated
               | _intention_ was to turn that otherwise normal and non-
               | infringing broadcast into copyright infringement, ya, you
               | might have an issue with the courts.
        
               | robbrown451 wrote:
               | Taylor Swift and her record company would be the
               | plaintiff in a copyright case. They cannot claim harm
               | here.
               | 
               | It's simply not a copyright case. If there is a law on
               | the books that says that cops can't use sneaky methods of
               | avoiding accountability, then that's a court case. The
               | public is harmed, not the owner of the content.
               | 
               | Better yet, the cop should just be fired for doing
               | something that is clearly against the public's interest,
               | making the department look bad.
               | 
               | But this is not a copyright case.
        
           | nkssy wrote:
           | He's certainly wearing the uniform, on the job and using the
           | music for work purposes in a deliberate way. Sounds feasible
           | as a public performance but I'd prefer a legal type's
           | opinion.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | BitwiseFool wrote:
         | I really have no clue. Playing music in public isn't considered
         | copyright violation. Otherwise playing the radio would be
         | unlawful.
         | 
         | Edit: Wow, it really is considered unlawful. I reflexively hate
         | the idea that playing a song can be considered violating
         | copyright. Yes, I know there's more to it than just that, but
         | wow.
        
           | scarecrowbob wrote:
           | If you're intentionally playing other peoples' recorded music
           | for the public, then ASCAP and BMI are going to want their
           | money.
        
             | BitwiseFool wrote:
             | I think there should be a distinction between 'for the
             | public' and 'in public'.
        
           | otterley wrote:
           | Wrong. One of the rights in the "copyright bundle" is public
           | performance rights, which are reserved exclusively to the
           | copyright holder and their licensees:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performing_rights
           | 
           | Generally speaking, "public performance" means outside a
           | small social group consisting of friends and/or family.
        
             | jollybean wrote:
             | More likely the opposite.
             | 
             | Someone working on the job, like a taxi, driving a truck,
             | or even in the office, listening to music is not going to
             | be in violation - unless the music were played as part of
             | entertainment for customers/patrons.
             | 
             | The cop will unlikely be found to be in violation.
             | 
             | The person filming in uploading, that production would
             | probably be in violation under the 'Transmission Clause'.
        
               | dragonwriter wrote:
               | > Someone working on the job, like a taxi, driving a
               | truck, or even in the office, listening to music is not
               | going to be in violation
               | 
               | Even to the extent workplace semi-public (for coworkers,
               | not primarily for public customers) entertainment use
               | _might_ be fair use [0], use by a state officer for the
               | purpose of leveraging known provider policies to inhibit
               | First Amendment protected public monitoring and
               | distribution of recordings of police activity would seem
               | unlikely to be viewed by a court as fair use (whose
               | statutory definition was crafted to follow the parameters
               | of a judicially-articulated restriction on copyright that
               | itself was viewed aa necessary to conform copyright to
               | the First Amendment.)
               | 
               | [0] a quite controversial position itself.
        
               | mannerheim wrote:
               | > like a taxi
               | 
               | Taxi drivers do have to pay license fees in some
               | countries.
               | 
               | > or even in the office
               | 
               | According to the RIAA, you need to license music in order
               | to play it in the office.
        
               | whiddershins wrote:
               | The RIAA makes many assertions. Whether they are
               | enforceable, or even the correct interpretation of
               | copyright law, is a separate thing.
        
               | mannerheim wrote:
               | It could be difficult to enforce requiring a performance
               | license in an office, but I suspect alleged violators if
               | caught will settle rather than let it go to court. Of
               | course, this then proves nothing.
               | 
               | That being said, I would say they're probably right,
               | because it doesn't seem that different from a store or
               | restaurant playing music.
        
               | whiddershins wrote:
               | If I play it at my desk it seems very different than the
               | office piping it out to everyone as 'background music.'
        
       | randyrand wrote:
       | Do people not remember that you can post copyrighted music on
       | youtube?
       | 
       | it's generally allowed. They just get any money from it.
        
         | heavyset_go wrote:
         | Rights holders have automated the DMCA take down process on
         | platforms like YouTube.
        
           | Hamuko wrote:
           | Depends on the rights holder. I have a random 43-second clip
           | from Cyberpunk 2077 with some jazz playing in the background
           | uploaded to YouTube. Within minutes of uploading, UMG made a
           | copyright claim on it, meaning that YouTube can show ads on
           | my video despite my channel not being monetized and UMG will
           | get that ad revenue. However, it doesn't actually impact my
           | channel's standing in any way. And I guess a side benefit is
           | that you can actually listen to the full track by clicking
           | the automatically added link in the description.
           | 
           | It does allow me to either mute or replace the song if I
           | don't want UMG claiming my video, but most likely it will
           | just completely destroy the audio in the entire video.
           | 
           | (https://youtu.be/7_C14lT4Tzw if anyone's actually curious)
        
       | marsdepinski wrote:
       | Isn't that public performance and doesn't that require the police
       | dept to pay royalties?
        
         | dctoedt wrote:
         | > _Isn 't that public performance and doesn't that require the
         | police dept to pay royalties?_
         | 
         | Yes, but under current law, states can ignore the royalty
         | requirement with impunity: "[C]opyright owners suffering
         | infringement by state entities cannot seek the remedies
         | provided by the Copyright Act." [0]
         | 
         | Police departments are almost certain to be held to be state
         | entities, I'd think, and therefore immune from individual
         | personal liability for copyright infringement liability.
         | 
         | And the doctrine of "qualified immunity" might shield the
         | police officer from personal liability for infringement as
         | well.
         | 
         | But I haven't looked into this specific issue.
         | 
         | (Usual disclaimer: I'm an IP lawyer but not _your_ lawyer.)
         | 
         | [0] https://www.copyright.gov/policy/state-sovereign-immunity/
        
           | elliekelly wrote:
           | I know the purpose of this is really to avoid the clip going
           | viral but I'm curious whether there have been any cases
           | addressing whether this situation could fall under fair use
           | with respect to the person recording? Videos like this are
           | usually newsworthy (and not made for commercial purposes) and
           | the copyrighted material is incidental to the purpose of the
           | recording.
           | 
           | I suppose I'm wondering whether this is an actual potential
           | legal issue for the people making/posting these videos or
           | whether the only issue is the headache of YouTube's takedown
           | process? If someone posts a video like this how likely is it
           | they've infringed on someone else's copyright? Being careful
           | not solicit legal advice maybe a better question is, what
           | factors would be relevant to weighing whether or not the
           | video infringes on the copyright?
           | 
           | I guess it's difficult for me to wrap my head around how
           | there could be infringement without the (intentional?)
           | misappropriation of the work.
        
             | dctoedt wrote:
             | > _whether this situation could fall under fair use with
             | respect to the person recording?_
             | 
             | IMHO the person posting the YouTube video with the Taylor
             | Swift song in background would have an _excellent_ shot at
             | a fair-use defense against any claim of infringement of the
             | copyright in the song or the recording (which could be two
             | different things). See, e.g.,
             | https://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/fair-use/four-
             | factors/
             | 
             | I also strongly suspect that the owner of the copyright(s)
             | in question would think very hard before making an
             | infringement claim in the first place, for fear of the
             | adverse publicity.
        
             | dctoedt wrote:
             | > _what factors would be relevant to weighing whether or
             | not the video infringes on the copyright?_
             | 
             | "As a general matter, copyright infringement occurs when a
             | copyrighted work is reproduced, distributed, performed,
             | publicly displayed, or made into a derivative work without
             | the permission of the copyright owner."
             | https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-definitions.html
             | 
             | See also a useful FAQ-style article, especially Myth #4: ht
             | tps://www.americanbar.org/groups/intellectual_property_law.
             | ..
             | 
             | ------
             | 
             | > _I guess it's difficult for me to wrap my head around how
             | there could be infringement without the (intentional?)
             | misappropriation of the work._
             | 
             | Intent isn't a factor in determining whether infringement
             | exists (as opposed to whether a fair-use defense is
             | available). "The U.S. Copyright Act is a strict liability
             | statute. In other words, following a "rule" that you
             | believe to be true but which turns out to be a myth will
             | not excuse you from liability for infringement. Under
             | certain circumstances, it is possible to plead "innocent
             | infringement," but even that only serves to reduce the
             | amount of damages you may owe and does not excuse your
             | infringement." (From the ABA "Myths" article cited above.)
        
           | asdff wrote:
           | I thought a state entity referred to the State government.
           | Police departments are run by the local city or county
           | government.
        
             | dragonwriter wrote:
             | From the point of view of federal Constitutional law
             | (except provisions designating powers or obligations to
             | _particular_ state bodies, of course) all elements and
             | administrative subdivisions of states are part of the state
             | government, even though each has its own separate legal
             | personality.
        
             | dctoedt wrote:
             | > _I thought a state entity referred to the State
             | government. Police departments are run by the local city or
             | county government._
             | 
             | For this purpose, city- and county governments and their
             | various departments are regarded as subdivisions of the
             | state.
        
             | cratermoon wrote:
             | In this case the definition of state that applies is "a
             | politically organized body of people usually occupying a
             | definite territory". In other words, any government
             | generally.
        
         | nextlevelwizard wrote:
         | I don't want to argue the case on the video, but I am curious.
         | If I have legally obtained copy of a song and I play it so that
         | people I do not know hear it is it considered illegal.
         | 
         | Some scenarios:
         | 
         | A) like here, I just play on my phone. Idea is that it is for
         | myself, say I left my earphones at home, but I just need my
         | tunes.
         | 
         | B) I have my open headphones on, so the music is clearly
         | audible to anyone near by me
         | 
         | C) I have earbuds (no sound for people near by), but they get
         | disconnected and my phone goes on speaker
        
           | heavyset_go wrote:
           | Intent matters in these cases.
        
       | brundolf wrote:
       | Maybe this kind of thing will finally force some preventative
       | measures for DMCA-trolling
        
       | ChuckMcM wrote:
       | Interesting article for two reasons, how the practice originated
       | and what it implies.
       | 
       | The practice seems to be somewhat wide spread (in the distance
       | between departments case). That might be because it came from a
       | Facebook group or forum where Law Enforcement officers exchange
       | tips. The second is the choice of artist (Swift) who has been in
       | a pretty visible battle with ownership of her music. I suspect
       | that if the officers who use this technique thought about it,
       | they might find that using Disney tunes would be more effective
       | in terms of triggering DMCA takedowns.
       | 
       | What it implies, and is explicitly stated in the referenced
       | video, is that a law enforcement officer is _explicitly_
       | attempting to deny you your 1st Amendment right (as adjudicated
       | by the courts). While the doctrine of qualified immunity would
       | likely shield them from prosecution, it is still a violation of
       | your civil rights and should certainly merit disciplinary action
       | on the part of the police department.
        
         | IntrepidWorm wrote:
         | There is something very poetic to being brutalized with tear
         | gas to the tune of "A Whole New World."
        
         | rpdillon wrote:
         | I wonder if a cop playing a song in public constitutes a public
         | performance. BMI[0] seems to think so:
         | 
         | > A "public performance" of music is defined in U.S. copyright
         | law to include any music played outside a normal circle of
         | friends and family that occurs in any public place.
         | 
         | [0]:
         | https://www.bmi.com/faq/entry/what_is_a_public_performance_o...
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | Simulacra wrote:
         | "explicitly attempting to deny you your 1st Amendment right "
         | 
         | I disagree. It's YouTube that is denying your first amendment
         | right. You have the right to record the officer, but you have
         | no right nor control over what the officer can do. There is
         | absolutely no law against playing a taylor swift song, as
         | distasteful as it may be. He's not stopping the person filming.
         | 
         | There is explicit, and there is reality, and this just doesn't
         | rise to the level of a constitutional violation.
        
           | Taek wrote:
           | YouTube isn't trying to deny your first amendment right, it's
           | incidentally enabling your first amendment right to be
           | denied.
           | 
           | Which I do think is a bad thing, and YouTube should not have
           | automated systems that can be exploited to violate people's
           | rights, but the intention of YouTube is certainly not to
           | violate rights, and the intention of the officer certainly is
           | to violate rights.
        
           | cforrester wrote:
           | I can't speak to the actual legality, but I strongly feel
           | that a less-dysfunctional system would account for the intent
           | of the officer. It is undeniably an attempt to suppress
           | widespread dissemination of video documentation of their
           | actions, by taking advantage of a known flaw in the
           | technology most commonly used to do so. At the very least,
           | this should be a fireable offence on the first infraction,
           | akin to tampering with their body camera.
        
       | kklisura wrote:
       | Would it be possible do make an AI that would mute or remove the
       | song, while preserving the rest the sounds?
        
         | Diederich wrote:
         | Pretty sure no AI required, especially if the (near) exact
         | audio that was being played was available.
        
       | TaylorAlexander wrote:
       | Very upsetting the mindset of a police officer (sergeant!) who
       | will harass someone while listening to a pre trial hearing for an
       | officer who murdered a man having a mental breakdown, and then
       | upon being recorded will attempt to interfere with that
       | recording. Police officers are given extraordinary powers by
       | society and yet they can act like spoiled brats (or worse). Not
       | cool!
        
         | ipnon wrote:
         | It seems like the police officer was remaining calm and
         | collected while the protestors were mocking him, interrupting
         | him, and calling him an "asshole."
        
           | jdavis703 wrote:
           | I've seen bus drivers treated worse. It's just a part of
           | working with the public, which is part of being cop. If an
           | adult armed with a gun can't deal with this, they should seek
           | a desk job.
        
           | pempem wrote:
           | It seems like signing up for a job like being a police
           | officer, and receiving a gun, riot training, interrogation
           | and arrest techniques means that they should be able to
           | handle this without escalating.
           | 
           | Now if a cop was calling you those things and you had all of
           | those weapons and verbally engaged in escalation, i think
           | maybe, you might not survive the encounter.
        
           | Judgmentality wrote:
           | Good on the protestors for calling him out on being an
           | asshole, filming it, and getting the publicity this deserves
           | so we can have a public debate about the manchildren our
           | government protects through qualified immunity.
           | 
           | If the officer really wanted to engage with the protestors,
           | all he had to do was not play the song. The cops care more
           | about protecting themselves than protecting the citizens they
           | aren't even sworn to protect.
           | 
           | https://mises.org/power-market/police-have-no-duty-
           | protect-y...
        
             | nextlevelwizard wrote:
             | >If the officer really wanted to engage with the protestors
             | 
             | It is painfully obvious that he did NOT want to do that.
             | The protestors wanted to engage with him and nitpick on
             | whatever order he had given them. They are acting hostile
             | and trying to land the officer in question in trouble.
             | 
             | Yeah he kind a does it to himself by trying to play the
             | music so the video won't end up on Youtube, but I can only
             | see this as anti police folks having bad blood. When the
             | protestors do anything that prevents their surveilance /
             | recording by the police (like in Hong Kong when they were
             | shining blinding lasers into officer's eyes and into
             | recording equipment that was touted as genious use of
             | technology and civil disobedience. Now that a cop tries
             | something similar they are touted as trouble makers and
             | assholes for simply not wanting to be recorded.
             | 
             | Yes it is a public place and you are allowed to record them
             | but you don't have to bring your phone into their face.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | Muromec wrote:
               | Cops are paid by public and public has a right to know
               | how they are doing their job, so yes, it's very different
        
           | jolux wrote:
           | Ever heard of the first amendment?
        
             | stale2002 wrote:
             | They were arrested or anything. So I don't see the problem.
        
             | vxNsr wrote:
             | The OP said the cop was harassing them... the only
             | harassment appeared to be coming from the crowd.
        
               | jolux wrote:
               | Point being, cops aren't actually allowed to retaliate,
               | or stop you from filming them, just because they don't
               | like what you're saying. They are required to let you
               | speak and film.
        
               | gowld wrote:
               | Not entirely true. Disturbing the Peace is an offense
               | that police can respond to.
        
               | vxNsr wrote:
               | Let's be clear, there was no retaliation. You're making
               | up laws to be able to claim the cops violated something
               | and thus justify your anger. The truth is the cop is at
               | best misguided about a civil matter (dmca take downs on
               | YouTube) and is attempting to prevent the many people
               | online from raging on him and his family while he
               | attempts to do his job to the best of his abilities.
        
               | pc86 wrote:
               | Attempting to stop the distribution of Constitutionally
               | protected speech isn't retaliation?
        
               | vxNsr wrote:
               | It's unclear to me how recording something is a first
               | amendment issue at all, let alone a speech issue.
               | TheVerge makes this unsubstantiated claim and many people
               | here accept it, but I struggle to understand how the
               | first amendment protects recording something.
               | 
               | ::Edit::
               | 
               | I'm being rate limited due to getting flagged and
               | downvoted so I'll reply here:
               | 
               | The EFF link keeps calling it a 1st amendment right, but
               | doesn't actually explain _how_ it's falls under the first
               | amendment.
               | 
               | The ACLU does much the same thing, tho, they do say it
               | pertains to "information gathering" which still feels
               | like a stretch.
               | 
               | They both also appear to be very clear that it's about
               | recording police, vs private citizens. Which again, is
               | confusing bec the first amendment doesn't mention public
               | vs private. I'm not saying it's not protected, I'm just
               | saying it's not clear to me how it pertains in anyway to
               | the first amendment.
               | 
               | Regardless of whether it's protected though, it's still
               | not retaliation or even illegal to for someone to try to
               | protect their family from an internet mob
        
               | jolux wrote:
               | The state is very broadly not allowed to suppress speech.
               | "People might harass me online if you post a video" is
               | not a very good argument for abridging peoples'
               | constitutional rights.
        
               | woodruffw wrote:
               | > but I struggle to understand how the first amendment
               | protects recording something.
               | 
               | The public's right to record the police is well
               | established under the First Amendment[1][2]. The Verge
               | doesn't substantiate it because, well, it's conventional
               | wisdom.
               | 
               | [1]: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/06/you-have-
               | first-amendme...
               | 
               | [2]: https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-speech/right-record-
               | police-do...
        
               | gknoy wrote:
               | 'woodruffw beat me to it, but I'll quote from the EFF's
               | page that he links:
               | 
               | """Federal courts and the Justice Department have
               | recognized the right of individuals to record the police.
               | Although the Supreme Court has not squarely ruled on the
               | issue, there is a long line of First Amendment case law
               | from the high court that supports the right to record the
               | police. And federal appellate courts in the First, Third,
               | Fifth, Seventh, Ninth, and Eleventh Circuits have
               | directly upheld this right"""
               | 
               | They go into more detail in one of the amicus briefs that
               | they link to in the text that I was quoting [0].
               | 
               | 0: https://www.eff.org/document/eff-amicus-brief-martin-
               | v-rolli...
        
               | handrous wrote:
               | > I'm just saying it's not clear to me how it pertains in
               | anyway to the first amendment.
               | 
               | The EFF link itself links to:
               | 
               | https://www.eff.org/document/eff-amicus-brief-martin-v-
               | rolli...
               | 
               | Among many others, which contain a rabbit-trail of case
               | law to explore.
               | 
               | The ACLU article links directly to:
               | 
               | https://www.aclum.org/sites/default/files/field_documents
               | /20...
               | 
               | Which is a court ruling that appears to be directly
               | relevant to the questions you're asking, and contains a
               | similar rabbit trail of other case law (one "Glik v.
               | Cunniffe, 655 F.3d 78 (1st Cir. 2011)", in particular, is
               | repeatedly cited).
               | 
               | This is what one encounters pretty much any time one asks
               | "why is/isn't [thing] constitutional under [amendment]"?
               | Lots of reading.
               | 
               | The short answer is just, "courts have ruled it so".
        
               | TaylorAlexander wrote:
               | I just watched the video in the article. Seems like
               | everyone is calm. But the man with the gun on his hip
               | seems to be demanding the crowd change their behavior due
               | to some issue with a banner. Whether you call that
               | harassment or not I suppose is a matter of perspective.
        
               | vxNsr wrote:
               | That's not really true tho right? they mock him, they
               | hurl insults, at the end we can hear them telling him he
               | has no life... I understand that we're now entering a
               | phase of cognitive dissonance, but it's always surprising
               | to see it so starkly represented.
        
               | sigzero wrote:
               | Then you watched a different video. The crowd was not
               | "calm".
        
               | [deleted]
        
         | slowmovintarget wrote:
         | Why aren't you upset about YouTube allowing automated removal
         | of videos with zero reconciliation to fair use statutes?
         | 
         | It's YouTube and Instagram that are broken. The right to record
         | is preserved. The ability (not right) to distribute is hampered
         | by these organizations.
        
           | squeaky-clean wrote:
           | It's copyright law that's broken. Youtube and etc are just an
           | ugly stack of mismatched patterned band-aids covering a large
           | infected wound that really needs antibiotics and not just
           | bandaids.
        
           | TaylorAlexander wrote:
           | I mean, I do take issue with that. But police officers
           | behaving inappropriately is a MUCH larger problem, and so the
           | focus on my concern.
        
           | sixothree wrote:
           | Can't a person be upset about both? Why do you need to
           | present a distraction here?
        
           | darkwater wrote:
           | Because YT automated removal of copyrighted content here is
           | just the loophole used by the police officer to avoid being
           | recorded and published (which it's a citizen right in the US,
           | according to the article). So it's the sergeant attitude the
           | problem here, he would use another loophole if this one
           | wasn't available.
           | 
           | Why are you trying to diverge the attention spot here?
        
             | ballenf wrote:
             | I think both are fair readings here.
             | 
             | There's even a strong case for a third problem: copyright
             | itself is a tool fundamentally one-sided and OP.
             | 
             | Three different things can all be true at the same time
             | without detracting from each other.
             | 
             | The problem with focusing on just the police here is that
             | there are any number of circumstances where copyrighted
             | audio will be naturally occurring that the issue will
             | require more than just getting the police to refrain from
             | using the loophole.
        
           | deadbunny wrote:
           | I could be wrong but doesn't YouTube just remove any
           | monetisation from the uploader and assign it to the
           | artist/label if it detects copyrighted music?
        
           | lancesells wrote:
           | I think you're reaching a little here. There are many, many
           | things wrong with YouTube but just because someone found a
           | hack on attempting to stop things from going viral doesn't
           | mean they are really to blame here.
           | 
           | Also, YouTube is not the internet or the world's preservation
           | archive of video. It's a massive tv station from a massive ad
           | company. I can't imagine there won't be a time where YouTube
           | doesn't start deleting videos that are uploaded to their
           | service just because they are taking up storage. So let's not
           | give YouTube that power.
        
           | PragmaticPulp wrote:
           | The video, including Taylor Swift music, is available on
           | YouTube and has not been removed:
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmZmo81Cdcc
           | 
           | I suspect the idea that they can play music in the background
           | to prevent YouTube views is a misconception about how the
           | system actually works.
        
             | slowmovintarget wrote:
             | Right, the mistake was not playing Hotel California
             | instead.
        
           | a9entroy wrote:
           | Because YouTube is doing it at the behest of the public.
           | People voted in representatives that brought laws that force
           | YouTube to do this. Your outrage is misplaced.
           | 
           | You think YouTube has any incentive in this? If it were up to
           | YouTube they would just bring in rules that give creators
           | ample flexibility while still making sure there's no
           | infringement.
        
             | nitrogen wrote:
             | Laws don't force YouTube to preemptively detect and
             | demonetize or remove anything. They chose to do that.
        
           | acituan wrote:
           | I have no doubt you will receive remarks about whataboutism,
           | maybe rightly, but I find this peculiar too.
           | 
           | On one hand there is a personified "evil", which we are very
           | good at handling mentally, dishing out imaginary punishments,
           | righting their wrong etc. On the other hand there is a
           | faceless corporate entity that not only scales massively in
           | their "evil" but also in a way that is not quite intelligible
           | to us right away. And our minds immediately flow to the more
           | graspable object which is the cop, even though the cumulative
           | harm of automated rent seeking is probably greater.
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | moate wrote:
         | It's almost like there is a systemic problem within the
         | department...
        
         | jMyles wrote:
         | > Police officers are given extraordinary powers by society and
         | yet they can act like spoiled brats (or worse).
         | 
         | I'm not sure the phrase "and yet" is precise; it seems like
         | these are cause-and-effect. This is power corrupting, with the
         | corruption approaching absoluteness as the power does.
        
           | kgwxd wrote:
           | I don't think it's always cause and effect. People who want
           | power, specifically so they can abuse it, seek it out. If
           | society offers a position of power that lets acting like a
           | spoiled brat go unchecked, spoiled brats will gravitate
           | towards that position.
           | 
           | I often wonder what a police force with a zero-tolerance
           | sobriety requirement, on and off duty, would be like. Is
           | there some places in the world with a policy as strict as
           | that and actually enforces it?
        
           | TaylorAlexander wrote:
           | Well, it was a way to be charitable in my rhetoric. Giving
           | the hypothetical police officer the benefit of the doubt that
           | they might be worthy of the powers they are being given.
           | Which, might not actually be powers humans can handle without
           | abuse.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | moron4hire wrote:
       | I've been seeing videos on TikTok and such of cops using tape to
       | cover up people's security cameras _at their homes_ when
       | approaching the front door. I don 't care why the cop is there,
       | that should be at least a firable offense _on the first
       | occurance_.
        
         | heavyset_go wrote:
         | The irony is that body cameras for police are sold to
         | departments as devices that keep the "lying public" from
         | accusing cops of doing things they didn't do. They have no
         | problem shoving cameras in other people's faces, but if someone
         | records cops, then it's the end of the world.
        
           | nextlevelwizard wrote:
           | If you can't see the difference either you are naive or you
           | are pushing agenda.
           | 
           | One is a random guy recording the cops then being able to cut
           | it and edit it how he pleases to spread any info they want.
           | Other is full recording of what happened from the officer's
           | point of view.
        
             | cforrester wrote:
             | In most of the cases I've seen of police misconduct, a
             | brief clip of the actual offending act is all that is
             | necessary to establish that misconduct, making them
             | valuable documentation for any court case. Edited footage
             | between the beginning and end of the clip is easily
             | detected.
             | 
             | Taking an egregious example of the murder of George Floyd,
             | there is no context that could have preceded the footage of
             | his murder that would have justified kneeling on a man's
             | neck for over 9 minutes. It also would have been trivial to
             | detect if someone had extended the video to make it appear
             | that he knelt longer than he did.
             | 
             | What are some examples of situations where you imagine that
             | footage taken by a regular citizen could be edited to make
             | an officer's reasonable actions look like police brutality
             | or other major forms of police misconduct?
        
             | heavyset_go wrote:
             | > _Other is full recording of what happened from the
             | officer 's point of view._
             | 
             | Ironically, the security cameras on people's private
             | property that cops are choosing to put tape over before
             | possibly committing crimes are closer to "full recordings"
             | than what body cameras offer.
             | 
             | Body cameras are sold with features that cops and their
             | bosses like, like features that exist for the purpose of
             | keeping the public from accusing cops of violating their
             | rights or worse.
             | 
             | That means that many body cameras are designed to only
             | record short 30 to 60 second segments of video after a cop
             | feels that "something bad" might happen to them. Many of
             | the cameras also come with convenient on and off switches,
             | too, and some come with features that allow cops to delete
             | videos.
        
         | sixothree wrote:
         | There are no checks and balances.
        
       | pan69 wrote:
       | Then you upload it somewhere else and share that.
        
       | mattlondon wrote:
       | A Barbara Streisand track would have been more appropriate!
        
         | moate wrote:
         | I love that the article mentions a different cop who played a
         | Sublime track. Whoever was making the video should have put on
         | "April 29, 1992".
        
       | paulpauper wrote:
       | Should have played a Prince song..gone in 3,2,1...
        
       | cj wrote:
       | > keep video off YouTube
       | 
       | That, and it also trips up algorithms that scan live feeds (e.g.
       | Facebook Live, Instagram Live) to make live streaming the
       | encounter more difficult.
       | 
       | (citation: my virtual fitness instructor who gets booted off of
       | Facebook Live mid-workout when certain songs are playing)
        
       | nashashmi wrote:
       | Calm down people. A while back the headline was music weaponized
       | to prevent broadcast.
       | 
       | It's not a weapon. The officer is using music to prevent videos
       | from being put online. I really don't see the problem in this.
        
         | cellularmitosis wrote:
         | The problem is less about the specific act of stifling the
         | virality of police recordings and more about what this says
         | about the mindset of this cop and police culture in general.
        
           | nashashmi wrote:
           | The mindset is not isolated to police culture. It is also
           | present in construction inspection and pretty much anywhere
           | the job is enforcement of policies.
           | 
           | You do the little you can to enforce rules in the most
           | effective way possible with the least opinions being raised
           | at the methods you used to get there. "How do I do my job and
           | create the least amount of fuss?"
        
       | bmsleight_ wrote:
       | If it is a well known song - maybe the audio coudl be subtracted
       | - noise cancellation style to remove the rogue song.
        
         | recursive wrote:
         | If it was recorded by a microphone in a space, then that won't
         | work. Time and frequency inaccuracy in playback by speaker,
         | sound reflections, and inaccuracies in recording by microphone
         | all contribute to a signal. The original can be recognized, but
         | simple subtraction will never remove it.
        
           | cellularmitosis wrote:
           | But keep in mind the goal isn't perfect removal. You only
           | need to disrupt the audio hashing algorithm.
        
           | netr0ute wrote:
           | This is untrue, things like Fourier transforms can account
           | for those variables.
        
             | recursive wrote:
             | I'd love to see a demonstration of this. (not of a FFT, but
             | use of one to remove one signal from another)
        
               | netr0ute wrote:
               | They might have done this to extract instruments, and if
               | you can extract one then maybe you can just subtract it
               | from the main recording. https://www.sciencedaily.com/rel
               | eases/2008/10/081030201607.h...
        
       | goodcanadian wrote:
       | The irony being . . . I just watched it on YouTube.
        
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