[HN Gopher] Hierapolis, Turkey's mysterious 'portal to the under...
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Hierapolis, Turkey's mysterious 'portal to the underworld'
Author : benbreen
Score : 111 points
Date : 2021-06-29 06:05 UTC (2 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.bbc.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.com)
| xeromal wrote:
| What a cool place. Ancient Greece has such a colored history.
| gverrilla wrote:
| they invented History ;)
| elihu wrote:
| Given that this is a heavily-trafficked tourist area, I can't
| help but suspect that the volcano researcher's discovery was
| likely already well-known to the locals. I mean, one would expect
| that CO2 concentrations of 80% in one place would cause a lot of
| animal deaths, not to mention be a severe health/safety threat to
| unwary tourists.
| ajhurliman wrote:
| Oxygen is about 21% of the atmosphere in most places, so 80%
| CO2 doesn't seem very high (most of the atmosphere is CO2, but
| there's also other stuff in it albeit at much lower
| concentrations).
| firebaze wrote:
| You probably wanted to say, most of the atmosphere is
| Nitrogen (~78%). 80% CO2 would be quite interesting, effect-
| wise: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31759856/
| IntrepidWorm wrote:
| Its not just that a large concentration of CO2 dilutes
| oxygen- in high enough concentrations it can be toxic. 10% of
| athmospheric volume as CO2 is lethal in minutes-
| concebtrations over 30% are lethal in seconds, which is why
| in cases of CO2 poisoning at high concentrations victims will
| not appear to have been distressed- they quite simply did not
| have time to react. There are approximately 89 cases of CO2
| poisoning in the US every year, about 2/3 of whom are
| themselves emergency rescue personell.
| davidhowlett wrote:
| The atmosphere is about 78% nitrogen. Carbon dioxide forms
| about 0.04%
| tharkun__ wrote:
| That doesn't mean that it isn't bad. From the article itself:
| Normal air contains just 0.04% CO2 but Pfanz was shocked to
| discover that the concentration around the shrine reached a
| staggering 80%. "Just a few minutes exposure to 10% carbon
| dioxide can kill you," he said, "so the levels here are
| really deadly."
| hrasyid wrote:
| > 80% CO2 doesn't seem very high
|
| Are you a visitor from Venus? :)
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Venus
|
| Joke aside, as other posters say the CO2 concentration is
| more like 0.04% and even an increase for that is considered a
| contributing factor in global warming.
| cakirh wrote:
| Near to Hierapolis:
| https://www.tourmakerturkey.com/karahayit.html
| TravisHusky wrote:
| I was just there; that whole region of Turkey (and Turkey in
| general) has really amazing and well preserved ancient artifacts
| and structures. I would definitely recommend the trip! My friend
| and I rented a car and just drove along the coast stopping at
| different museums, palaces, and ruins.
| sandGorgon wrote:
| Could you mention the route you took. Interested in doing the
| same (versus the more conventional touristy version of Turkey)
| Areibman wrote:
| I always advise my friends interested in travel, "You'll find
| more of Ancient Greece in Turkey than in Greece"
| katie-k wrote:
| must have felt so cool to solve an ancient mystery - second dream
| job for sure
| m_a_g wrote:
| Ok, I'll bite. What's the first?
| katie-k wrote:
| racecar driver / AI professional obv.
| edoceo wrote:
| Not cryo-frozen deep space explorer?
| objektif wrote:
| Ad click optimizer.
| xeromal wrote:
| fuuuuuuuck that hahahah
| rendall wrote:
| Here have an upvote, because that was funny and you're
| new enough not to know being funny will get you
| downvotes.
| Scene_Cast2 wrote:
| The 0.04% CO2 figure is from 420 parts per million, I'd imagine.
|
| Anecdotally, I noticed that overly high (1000+) PPM numbers will
| make me drowsy and lethargic. IIRC, the mandated legal max for
| office buildings is 800; but it's easy to go way past that in a
| well-insulated home in the winter. There are sensors you can buy
| to monitor this figure so that you can open windows or move
| around when necessary.
|
| Also, this figure was probably lower during when the stories took
| place.
| exhilaration wrote:
| _Also, this figure was probably lower during when the stories
| took place._
|
| Why? I would assume the opposite, if there were earthquakes in
| "17 AD, 60 AD, and again in the 17th and 14th Centuries" as the
| article states, I would guess that more gases were released
| when the area had higher seismic activity.
| ben_w wrote:
| The _background_ level of CO2 (not that of the caves
| themselves) was about 280 ppm in the Greek era:
| https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:CO2_40k.png
| dalbasal wrote:
| _Writers of the time, including Pliny the Elder and the Greek
| geographer Strabo, described these sacrifices as a chilling
| spectacle. A priest would lead an animal, perhaps a sheep or a
| bull, into the shrine. As if by the hand of the god, the animal
| would instantly drop dead, while the priest would walk out alive.
| "I threw in sparrows, and they immediately breathed their last
| and fell," wrote Strabo.._
|
| _.. "I wondered, could this Gate to Hell be a volcanic vent?"_..
| "We saw dozens of dead creatures around the entrance: mice,
| sparrows, blackbirds, many beetles, wasps and other insects. So,
| we knew right away that the stories were true..."
|
| .."When Pfanz tested the air around the vent with a portable gas
| analyser he discovered the reason: toxic levels of carbon
| dioxide. Normal air contains just 0.04% CO2 but Pfanz was shocked
| to discover that the concentration around the shrine reached a
| staggering 80%. "Just a few minutes exposure to 10% carbon
| dioxide can kill you," he said, "so the levels here are really
| deadly."
|
| "These ultra-high levels of carbon dioxide are caused by the same
| geological system that created the area's hot springs and
| dramatic travertine terraces. Hierapolis is built on the
| Pamukkale fault, a 35km-long active tectonic fault zone where
| cracks in the Earth's crust allow mineral-rich water and deadly
| gases to escape to the surface. One of them runs directly under
| the city centre and into the Ploutonion."
|
| "Almost certainly the choice of the Ploutonion's location was
| directly related to the seismic gas vents that exist here," said
| Yeomans. "Given that the underworld and the deities and myths
| associated with it were a significant part of their religious
| ethos, it makes sense that they would construct temples and
| shrines in places that most evoked the world that they believed
| lay beneath their feet."
|
| "But such proximity to the forces of nature came at a price: an
| active fault zone also causes earthquakes, which levelled the
| city in 17 AD, 60 AD, and again in the 17th and 14th Centuries.
| Eventually, Hierapolis was abandoned."
| pmoriarty wrote:
| There has also been speculation that mind altering gases
| inspired the prophecies of the Orcle at Delphi:
|
| _" Recent geological investigations have shown that gas
| emissions from a geologic chasm in the earth could have
| inspired the Delphic Oracle to "connect with the divine." Some
| researchers suggest the possibility that ethylene gas caused
| the Pythia's state of inspiration. Traces of ethylene have been
| found in the waters of the Castallian spring, which is now
| largely diverted for the town water supply of the town of
| modern Delphi. However, Lehoux argues^ that ethylene is
| "impossible" and benzene is "crucially underdetermined." Others
| argue instead that methane might have been the gas emitted from
| the chasm, or CO[2] and H[2]S, arguing that the chasm itself
| might have been a seismic ground rupture."_[1]
|
| [1] -
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphic_oracle#Fumes_and_vapor...
| dr_dshiv wrote:
| There is a very nice response to Lehoux et al. They
| apparently made serious errors in dismissing the ethylene
| hypothesis.
|
| https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/155636507014778.
| ..
|
| According to Aristoxenus, Pythagoras attributed his doctrines
| to Themistoclea, the Pythia. Crediting a woman in 500BC! He
| would have seen the rebuilding of the oracle complex, too.
| csunbird wrote:
| I can imagine being a priest/follower of Pluto, and finding an
| ancient cave that is unnaturally hot and with dead animals all
| around, dead because of non-apparent reasons and thinking that
| it could be a hallowed ground for the god of the underworld.
|
| Truly, truly amazing.
| bom_tombadil wrote:
| this is sick
| edoceo wrote:
| Not just sick. Deadly! Sacrificed to Pluto!
| dan-robertson wrote:
| See also: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limnic_eruption and
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Nyos_disaster
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