[HN Gopher] Windows 11 on Raspberry Pi 4
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Windows 11 on Raspberry Pi 4
Author : murkle
Score : 68 points
Date : 2021-06-30 16:39 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (twitter.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (twitter.com)
| shadilay wrote:
| I wonder if MS will enforce the TPM requirement in the hobbyist
| space, like the RPi, or if ending the PC as an open platform is
| more important.
| rntksi wrote:
| Is that a native build for ARM that's running? Impressive.
| flatiron wrote:
| yes arm64, the twitter thread also said they didn't have to do
| any TPM tricks, it just worked. i read somewhere else only the
| installer now requires TPM, the OS boot does not, but that will
| change when it goes gold
| sixothree wrote:
| I got Windows 11 via Windows Update for my Surface Pro 3. I'm
| pretty sure it only has TPM and not TPM 2.0.
| mnouquet wrote:
| There was a post yesterday about someone installing it on a
| recent machine and then swapped the drive to an older
| allegedly "unsupported" old machine and it worked just fine.
| YMMV.
| monocasa wrote:
| I wouldn't be surprised if the ARM builds don't require a
| TPM, and they kick the can down the road WRT requiring
| equivalent functionality on ARM. TPMs are very, very x86. For
| instance that LPC bus they sit on is almost electrically the
| 8086 front side bus, just with a tiny state machine in front
| to serialize it (hence LPC: Low Pin Count 8086 Bus).
|
| There's of course equivalent security processors and domains
| on pretty much every ARM application soc, but the exact
| semantics of them (like pretty much everything in the ARM
| space that's outside of the actual CPU core complexes) is
| extremely heterogeneous. They might even be running in EL3 on
| the application cores themselves. Wrangling all of that is
| probably out of scope for W11 RTM.
| dstaley wrote:
| The preview builds of Windows 11 don't enforce the TPM
| requirement.
| monocasa wrote:
| Sure, I'm talking about even the RTM build for ARM which
| is the first non preview ARM build. They've said that
| final builds will require TPMs, but I'm making the
| argument that there's a good chance this will only apply
| to x86 and won't apply to ARM builds.
| rntksi wrote:
| That's pretty interesting.
|
| Going off on a tangent here, but thinking of how most of the
| world ran Windows XP/Windows 7 on cracked versions, would it
| be possible that following the TPM requirement, someone would
| write a TPM emulator (or maybe some more clever hack) so that
| Windows 11 doesn't complain about those stuffs and just
| install/boot? (disclaimer: I have no idea how TPM works and
| have never had to use it...)
| salamandersauce wrote:
| From what I've heard W11 in a VM won't require a TPM to
| install. So worst case install it to your HDD from
| VirtualBox and see what happens booting on bare metal?
| mrlonglong wrote:
| I installed the preview the other day and yes it works
| just fine under VirtualBox
| shadilay wrote:
| As long as it's not validated via the unique manufacturers
| key in the TPM it's possible. Any other software/website
| will assume you have a working TPM if you are running Win11
| and will likely break however so the experience will be
| somewhat unusable.
| zamadatix wrote:
| Outside of the native OS modules using it for security
| (e.g. Windows Hello) I can't see many apps having a use
| for TPM let alone breaking. Perhaps DRM content will move
| towards using it at some point but it's always been a
| circus to get high tier DRM solutions to validate on
| Windows anyways, most just fallback to low validation
| with lower quality streams as is.
| qbasic_forever wrote:
| It's probably easier and more likely that software crackers
| will patch out the TPM requirement and make pirate versions
| of Windows 11 that install without it.
|
| Emulating a TPM at the hardware level is possible but too
| much work when you can just buy the chips themselves--they
| aren't some magic unobtanium locked down thing, for
| example:
| https://www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partgroup/trusted-
| platfor...
|
| The problem is to get an old system to use it you'd have to
| also modify its bios to make it aware of the TPM (and
| figure out how to get access to the phsyical bus the TPM
| needs to interface with the motherboard). There is a lot of
| reverse engineering and work to do that sort of thing.
| merb wrote:
| > Emulating a TPM at the hardware level is possible but
| too much work
|
| good for us that amd does it for free, huh?
| https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/pro-security (fTPM)
| MrBuddyCasino wrote:
| I have to admit that I'm puzzled why people are loosing their
| shit when an operating system that is built to run on an ARM
| device turns out to run on one of the most popular ARM devices
| in existence. Why?
| qbasic_forever wrote:
| There is no retail version of Windows for ARM. It only comes
| pre-installed on ARM devices, or through some partner channel
| when you form a business deal to sell ARM devices. Last I saw
| the current way to get Windows on ARM was by extracting it
| from an old Windows IoT project build. So it's novel and
| interesting when someone figures out how to work around all
| these roadblocks to get Windows working on a consumer ARM
| SBC.
| electroly wrote:
| Maybe that was true previously but these days you can just
| download a disk image for Windows ARM ready-to-go from
| https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-
| download/windowsins...
| [deleted]
| orra wrote:
| Especially given Windows NT, back when it was called that,
| was portable, and supported various RISC processors.
| dvfjsdhgfv wrote:
| And this is what I hope ReactOS will become one day, in
| spite of Microsoft's FUD campaigns.
| edoceo wrote:
| When working on Win2k it started off still trying to
| support MIPS and PPC but then shipped only x86 and Alpha
| krylon wrote:
| I thought Win2k on the Alpha was cancelled, too, although
| they made a Beta. There was an article posted here on HN
| recently from 1999 about Microsoft cancelling Win2k on
| Alpha.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27603531
|
| (Sorry for being a smartass about it.)
| FartyMcFarter wrote:
| The fact that it runs without hacks or fiddling with drivers?
| gruez wrote:
| AFAIK windows 10 already had official raspberry pi builds, so
| it's not too surprising.
| krylon wrote:
| They seem to be forever trailing far behind Microsoft's
| system, though. What version are they targetting now, 2003R2?
| Windows 7?
|
| It would be very interesting to see what happened, though, if
| a bunch of companies / government organizations would pool
| their resources to fund ReactOS development, if only to put
| the screws on Microsoft when negotiating new licenses. Like
| IBM mainframe customers putting Amdahl swag on their desks
| when negotiating with IBM salespeople to get a discount.
|
| If they achieve 100% compatibility, there could also be a
| significant market for a Windows-compatible system that will
| support device drivers and software written for old versions
| of Windows. In my last job, we had a number of customers
| still running Windows XP on SCADA boxes, because they needed
| to support some piece of hardware whose vendor had either
| gone out of business or stopped supporting that hardware, so
| XP was the last version of Windows with drivers available to
| support that hardware.
|
| One customer in particular still ran _MS-DOS_ on a few
| machines for similar reasons - the vendor of their SCADA
| system had gone out of business ... a long time ago, it
| seems, and they were very reluctant to migrate to something
| more recent. It was really weird, because as I remember, some
| of these machines did not run DOS, but some ancient version
| of QNX running several virtual DOS machines for visualization
| stuff.
|
| (Okay, I'm rambling. I should lay off the coffee.)
| conradev wrote:
| You can download ARM builds with the click of a button if you
| have an MSDN subscription. If you don't have one (I don't),
| there is a great website to download Windows update images
| directly from Microsoft (and turn them into ISOs):
|
| https://uupdump.net
|
| I downloaded a Windows 10 ARM64 ISO, loaded it into Parallels
| on my M1 MacBook Air, put in my product key, and it works
| great!
|
| (now, if only Visual Studio could be compiled for ARM64...)
| jmkni wrote:
| Nice, looks like it's installable on the M1 Mac as well if you
| are running Windows 10 via Parallels.
|
| Interestingly, there's a message which says:
|
| > Your PC does not meet the minimum hardware requirements for
| Windows 11. Your device may continue to receive insider preview
| builds until Windows 11 is generally available, at which time it
| is recommended to clean install Windows 10
|
| I'm guessing that's at least partly a TPM issue. However, it's
| downloading ok via Windows Update.
|
| I wonder what the future of Parallels is. Windows ARM runs
| surprisingly well on it, but it's a Preview build as well, as MS
| haven't released it as a stand alone product.
| null4bl3 wrote:
| This is an abomination
| ourmandave wrote:
| Yes, but to come full circle, can you run Doom on Windows 11
| running on a Rasberry Pi 4?
| spicybright wrote:
| A vm running 10, then a vm in that running 7, then vista, xp,
| ... until you can't do VMs anymore. Then you run doom.
| krylon wrote:
| Can amd64 do nested virtualization? (I suppose you could use
| Bochs, but the resulting performance would be awful.)
|
| I remember reading that IBM mainframes running VM can do
| that, there was this story about some developers stacking
| nested VMs about six or seven levels (without much loss of
| performance).
|
| There also was another story involving Hercules, a mainframe
| emulator. Someone had an IBM mainframe running Linux inside a
| VM, running Hercules on the Linux VM, which in turn ran VM
| again, with a machine running Linux, which in turn ran
| Hercules... I'm very fuzzy on the details, but it was a crazy
| setup.
| sixothree wrote:
| or wsl?
| ThrowawayR2 wrote:
| The installation procedure is documented by the same person at
| the link in the tweet (https://miyagadget.tokyo/archives/274) and
| Google Translate manages to produce an intelligible translation.
| Seems to be a straightforward process.
| I_Byte wrote:
| Try using https://deepl.com. I usually get better results than
| google translate with this site.
| jmkni wrote:
| I imagine you just install Windows 10 ARM, join the insider
| program and run Windows Update? Is there anything more to it?
| brundolf wrote:
| > Where did you stick the TPM chip
|
| Lol
| geerlingguy wrote:
| On YouTube, user leepspvideo posted a full demo of it working and
| how he got it installed here:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLb0d7zTsRY
|
| Seems like it runs fine with any ARM64 software, though a bit
| slow since the CPU isn't very beefy.
| jordemort wrote:
| Is it sad that I'm mostly excited about this because I want an
| easy and supported way to run Android apps on a Pi 4?
| CarelessExpert wrote:
| I take it Linux + Anbox can't do the job?
| jordemort wrote:
| I haven't have a great deal of success with Anbox
| xony wrote:
| Looks like emulation
| jll29 wrote:
| I don't need Windows 11 - I have had X/11 (aka The X Window
| System, Version 11) for a while, which supported mice with 16
| keys already in the last millennium.
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(page generated 2021-06-30 23:02 UTC)