[HN Gopher] Modular Homes for Under $50k
___________________________________________________________________
Modular Homes for Under $50k
Author : yehudabrick
Score : 339 points
Date : 2021-06-30 02:21 UTC (20 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.boxabl.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.boxabl.com)
| coderintherye wrote:
| I imagine the margin isn't there for it, but I wish someone would
| target the <= 120 square foot market. You would think the cost to
| build such structure would be less because it doesn't need to
| pass any code and has less features, but for some reason there
| doesn't seem to be anything between a $2000 tool shed from Home
| Depot and $45,000 options from companies like Boxabl. The closest
| I've found is Bunkie which has a Basecamp model but even at its
| base feature set is still almost $30k when including delivery.
|
| I'd have to guess the market just isn't there for it, maybe
| everyone else just doesn't mind dealing with the building codes
| and permit requirements for larger units?
| benjohnson wrote:
| There's an economic problem with well made smaller homes - they
| have all the detail of a larger home without the square
| footage. Hence the cost per square foot is much larger than you
| would expect.
| ctdonath wrote:
| I've heard an aphorism to wit: length is cheap, corners are
| expensive.
| pjerem wrote:
| This ! What I learned during the construction of my home is
| that the structure is really only one part of a construction.
| It's a lot of raw material of course, but relatively cheap
| one and the construction of the structure is pretty fast.
| What takes months and a lot of money is just everything else
| : networks, windows & doors, walls, finishing ...
| harmmonica wrote:
| I'm in the middle of trying to figure this out with a friend
| by building an off-grid tiny house and this is pretty
| accurate. With our labor at a nominal rate (30/hr) it's
| coming out to about $250 per square foot. We think on the
| next one we might be able to get down to $200 maybe $175.
|
| Interior is not done yet, but exterior is:
| https://imgur.com/gallery/KbPlbPR
|
| That 250 psf includes everything you need to live from the
| get go except you have to fill the 50-gallon water tank.
| zie wrote:
| RV's & trailers are right @ 120sq ft usually. Pick 1 from any
| of the few manufacturers and enjoy life.
|
| There is even such a thing as a "destination trailer":
| https://www.keystonerv.com/rv-type/destination-trailers
|
| which almost exactly describes what you are looking for.
|
| Price: $30->50k brand new. Used models cheaper.
| stickfigure wrote:
| Look for wood cabin kits, something like this:
|
| https://bzbcabinsandoutdoors.net/log-cabin-kits/escape/
|
| Not well insulated but cute and cheap and makes a cozy little
| spot you can escape to. Obviously not for living, but what do
| you want for 120sqft?
|
| Those Bunkies are all well under 120sqft and wouldn't need
| permits here in Solano county. Actually they could be a bit
| bigger; I'm looking for literal 12' x 10'.
| rambambram wrote:
| Don't know why you're down voted. I've looked into my fair
| share of tiny houses and vanlife builds, and they all have one
| thing in common: it's either amateuristic (don't get me wrong,
| I love it, but the quality and looks ain't there), or it's
| superdeluxe comfy/beautiful and completely forgetting about all
| the hassle around it. I mean, one needs land and permission to
| put a 'house' somewhere.
|
| There seems nothing in between. So now I'm looking into bicycle
| caravans. One can just put 'm in the woods, nobody finds out
| (and if they do, so what), it costs basically nothing, you can
| fix it yourself, etc. I might post my current bicycle caravan
| project to HN soon.
| Johnythree wrote:
| The problem is your assumption that "it doesn't need to pass
| any code".
|
| It varies with location but in general you first need a
| Building Permit, then a Certificate of Occupancy" before you
| can live in it.
|
| And of course for either, the dwelling has to meet local codes.
| coderintherye wrote:
| Incorrect. This is not an "assumption". Though I'll admit my
| comment is U.S. specific. Read up on your state and county
| laws, there are many states and counities in the U.S. where
| structures <= 120 square feet require no permits, no
| certificates, no regulation at all.
|
| Also no one mentioned living in one.
| lovich wrote:
| There's only going to be two types of customers for that. The
| Uber rich who can afford spending multiple thousands of dollars
| in what's effectively a private hotel room you can install
| wherever you have land, and the extremely poor who will live in
| them because it is the maximum they can afford.
|
| The negative PR from the latter set of clients can't possibly
| be worth how much margin they can get from the former,
| especially when hotels exist in every city, town, and village.
|
| There's still probably a market for something that size from
| people who can afford 30k+ to handle the static costs of
| building a luxury cabin in the country and are still price
| conscious enough to want to limit how much they spend on
| building.
|
| It's extremely unlikely that there's a market for deplorable
| houses this size that also fits in a middle class budget like
| 2k would
| stickfigure wrote:
| > The Uber rich who can afford spending multiple thousands of
| dollars in what's effectively a private hotel room
|
| In the vast majority of the US, these are called "cabins" and
| it is very common for people with very modest means to build
| them for recreation. Outside of urban areas, you don't have
| to be rich to own land.
| samuelizdat wrote:
| You WILL live in the pod
| foolinaround wrote:
| Is it as easy to disassemble and move it to a different location?
|
| From what I see, it seems the setup alone seems to be optimized,
| but once done, it seems more or less permanent?
| debacle wrote:
| Someone I know is looking into building tiny home communities for
| the impoverished. He has not been impressed by the available
| resources.
|
| Overwhelmingly, these tiny/modular homes are hype. If you want to
| build a tiny home (or really any home), do it with 2x6s and
| nails. You can get cheaper roughing with rammed earth, CMUs, etc,
| but finishing is more expensive.
|
| Timber homes at that size can almost compete on price (because
| most of your members are under 12'), but some of the new energy
| saving building codes are not timber frame friendly.
|
| You can buy a prefab SIP home, but generally it will always be
| cheapest to just build the thing in place. Especially if you are
| planning on building more than one at a time.
| harmmonica wrote:
| This is exactly what my friend and I have been thinking. People
| are being priced out of even the cheaper, though still
| desirable, mountain and other rural communities in the western
| US. I strongly feel like tiny houses are a good solution for
| some folks who don't feel like they need 300-400 SF per person
| in their home. And they can be built to extremely rigorous
| standards for _relatively_ little cost.
|
| As I've said elsewhere in the thread, we're building one right
| now (https://imgur.com/gallery/KbPlbPR) and our hope is that
| this somehow is something we can reproduce, potentially on a
| cheap parcel of land, where people who can't otherwise afford a
| conventional house can afford these. We're definitely thinking
| it's for the not-quite impoverished, though, because when
| people have zero money/jobs you're relying on government to
| step in and fund/subsidize.
|
| Of course lots of questions about entitlements for tiny house
| communities; affordability when financing isn't available;
| etc., but gotta start somewhere. Seems like there's a path to
| providing some long-lasting shelter for folks who otherwise
| would have to opt for single or double-wides or, worse, end up
| unhoused.
| uncensoredjrk wrote:
| If your friend would like to crank out multiple tiny homes,
| they should look for a company nearby that has automated Light
| Gauge Steel Framing machines. An example of a manufacturer of
| such machines is https://www.framecad.com/
|
| Once your design is done, they can easily spit the parts out in
| an automated fashion, the parts form the wall and roofing
| panels. The panels are easily trucked to the site and erected.
| harmmonica wrote:
| Not sure if you have in-depth knowledge about this so I can
| avoid doing a deep dive on the linked site, but what's the
| cost of something like this? If you were going to do a 20x20
| footprint, what would those 4 walls cost if you assume 3
| penetrations for a window on each wall and a door on the 4th
| wall?
|
| Totally get it if you say "go to the website" but if you're
| involved with one of these companies maybe you could answer
| that more readily than I can figure it out.
| nine_k wrote:
| Timber prices have quadrupled last few months.
|
| There is an economy of scale and efficiency in building large
| prefab pieces of a house on a factory, as opposed to the ad-hoc
| local conditions. Machines can do a lot on a factory which they
| cannot do on a traditional construction site, and human labor
| is not cheap in the U.S., especially if you want licensed
| contractors to build a house according to the code.
|
| Also, these homes don't look the cheapest edifices you can
| produce. A part of their value proposition is deployment speed.
| IDK if it's an important differentiator for that market
| segment.
|
| I also suppose that such homes can be rolled back nearly as
| efficiently as they are deployed, several times, so they can
| serve as mobile homes for disaster relief, construction in
| remote parts, etc.
| debacle wrote:
| > There is an economy of scale and efficiency in building
| large prefab pieces of a house on a factory, as opposed to
| the ad-hoc local conditions.
|
| This is only true if you are building 1 home. If you are
| building 25 or 100 homes, on-site construction is the way to
| go.
| nine_k wrote:
| My idea is that you cannot have a huge machine that
| produces a whole wall in one go on a construction site of a
| single-family home, but you can have it on a factory. And
| the machine can work like 10x as fast as human builders.
|
| Of course, to be economic, that machine should produce
| these walls day in day out without much interruption, hence
| the economy of _scale_.
| jonfw wrote:
| Putting walls up is incredibly cheap, that's like the
| least interesting thing to automate. Plus it'd be hard
| (read: expensive) to move them from the factory to the
| site, and it'd be hard to get them into place when
| they're on site.
|
| For things that are actually hard to build or easy to
| move, like cabinets or roof trusses, we're already
| building them in factories
| bluGill wrote:
| Only if you are building the same wall all the time. As
| soon as some decides they want their house to not look
| like the one next door and thus makes some "trivial"
| changes your machine can't make the house anymore.
|
| That is why you can't scale: people want their house to
| be unique.
| jhloa2 wrote:
| I really want one of these and I don't know why. I'm struggling
| to come up with uses for this other than for AirBNB style short
| term rental places or pre-planned communities for helping
| homeless people get back on their feet or something. Doesn't seem
| as portable as a mobile home, and doesn't really have enough of a
| rustic look for me to want to consider this as a cabin.
|
| I feel like I'm missing a big use case here, but unless I planned
| to live in this full time, what are the benefits over buying a
| sprinter van or something.
| notahacker wrote:
| The UK is full of these in holiday parks, either as homes for
| middle class retirees downsizing to a nice little community in
| the country (the economics aren't quite as impressive when you
| consider the annual charge for the park land and facilities...)
| or as holiday lodges, including holiday lodges exclusively used
| as summer/weekend retreats Technically these are all "mobile"
| but they won't move after delivery.
|
| examples: https://www.tingdene.co.uk/residential-park-
| homes/our-homes
| gurchik wrote:
| In one of the videos on the site it is explained that they are
| currently targeting people who want to build "backyard houses"
| or "ADUs" that are popular in some places like in California.
| Family members can live in them or you can rent them out,
| provided it has a foundation, power, plumbing etc.
| jcims wrote:
| Probably a way to industrialize it a bit. Run a management
| company that leases these out, handles site prep and
| paperwork and offer the homeowner a buyout option after a few
| years.
|
| Add an Airbnb service on top that markets, cleans and
| maintains it for those that want to dip their toes into it.
|
| Then start stacking them on top of each other until something
| gives.
| pinkrobotics wrote:
| To me it's a modern cabin. And a place to live while a
| primary residence is being built. And then it'll be a place
| for visitors to stay.
|
| I absolutely love this, and I really want one. Have you sold
| many/any yet? What stage of development is the company at?
|
| Also, what sort of time frame can I hope to just order one
| and have it show up in a month or two?
| nabilhat wrote:
| "Starter home" is the niche this fits. It wasn't all that long
| ago that sub-1000 square foot houses were a normal thing people
| bought and lived in until they could afford (and had a reason
| to) to move to a house better suited to support
| spouse/kids/etc.
|
| I also want one of these, because I want starter homes to be
| that again, not just an impediment to scrape off of the lot to
| make way to build the largest house that zoning allows. It's
| nice in some ways that ADU options like this seem to be prying
| open that niche again.
| dirtyid wrote:
| https://constructionphysics.substack.com/p/folding-at-home
|
| Good recent summary on state of foldable construction.
| outside1234 wrote:
| And then $80k to install between new electrical box, getting
| raked over the coals by your local water/sewer district, having
| to build a foundation, stairs from door, etc., etc.
|
| And your property taxes will go up.
| dcolkitt wrote:
| Your estimate is way too high. At least in most parts of the
| country. I know because I'm building right now in a mid-priced
| coastal metro.
|
| A small monolithic slab foundation is maybe $8k at most.
| Running buried electric on a 20 foot setback is $2k. Water and
| sewer lines are $3k. The municipal water and sewer tap are $5k
| total. And the county capacity fee is $4k. Altogether these
| ancillary "hookup" costs are $20k, and that's for a "get it
| done fast" job at a period of labor and material shortages.
| eddy_chan wrote:
| This comment deserves to be higher. People just think you can
| put these anywhere but you need water connection, sewer
| connection, electrical, telephone line/cable, permits and red
| tape, by the time you're done it'll be double. And I don't
| think these solve any of our housing affordability problems,
| the land in a desirable area will be far more expensive than
| what's on top.
| amelius wrote:
| We need a better way to distribute land than the one we use
| now (=based on money and inheritance).
|
| This is the problem which smart people should be working on,
| not some prefab home.
| Johnythree wrote:
| There is no shortage of cheap land. There is however a
| desperate shortage of land on which you can legally build.
| And that of course is due to zoning regulations.
| engineer_22 wrote:
| There's a lot of buildable land. It's just not highly
| desirable. The land is good, and green, and the neighbors
| are agreeable, but it's not close to a major city.
|
| EDIT: Case in point, my first purchase in 2017 was 5
| acres of buildable land 30 minutes from a tertiary city,
| with an existing 900 SF manufactured home and 400 SF
| garage. Total price: $30,000
| jeofken wrote:
| When people say "we" must "distribute", it usually rather
| means that the state should take with force from owners -
| where oneself is often excluded.
|
| The most well known example of implanting land
| redistribution on a large scale is known as Holodomor.
|
| "Man plans, God laughs". It is prideful vanity to think one
| can plan the economy better than free people who care for
| their own.
| chris123 wrote:
| People should be free to buy the land they want with the
| money that they've earned or otherwise legally acquired.
| It's just a basic principle. The principal below that
| principle, is that you have autonomy over your own body,
| and your own labor, and you have a choice as to how you
| apply. And you have a right to the fruits of your labor and
| creativity and entrepreneurship. And you can spend those
| fruits, and all the ways that are legal, including buying
| land, including buying expensive land in desirable places.
| And that kind of land is expensive. Not everybody can buy
| it.
| iso1631 wrote:
| Back in 1600 someone declared they owned all the land in
| a valley. Their descendants still own it, or have
| benefited from selling it off at various points.
|
| It seems wrong that a decision 400 years ago has bearing
| on people today.
|
| In the UK it's even worse -- much of the land is still
| owned by the families that were mates with William the
| Conquerer back in 1066. About 1500 years ago the king
| fell out with some landholders (monasteries) and
| confiscated it, giving it to his mates, who still own it.
|
| Land should not be owned, it should be rented from the
| people. You improve its value? Great, you shouldn't be
| charged for that, but the unimproved value of that land
| is something that should be of benefit to society as a
| whole.
| amelius wrote:
| Land is different from consumer goods.
|
| How would you feel if companies started to divide the
| available drinking water or breathable air? That rich
| people controlled who can drink or breathe? And that
| inheritance determined your odds of survival, not based
| on genes but on access to basic resources?
|
| It is OK if hard work is rewarded with money.
|
| However, it is not OK if people use that money against
| the rest of us, who made different life choices.
|
| Since land is a limited resource, there is a problem
| there.
| macspoofing wrote:
| Better then the market?
| engineer_22 wrote:
| What if we flip the problem around, and figure out how to
| distribute high quality lifestyles, like the ones offered
| in the big cities, to the outskirts where land is plentiful
| and cheap?
| vuldin wrote:
| I was totally about to agree with your post based on the
| first part (needing a better way to distribute land). But I
| don't feel that idea and the idea of prefab homes are
| mutually exclusive.
| Kosirich wrote:
| So my question is, if you had a piece of land, concrete
| foundation, electrical, water and sewer connection, is it
| possible to get something better for 50k?
| wintermutestwin wrote:
| >is it possible to get something better for 50k?
|
| Theoretically, yes. In practice, finding a builder who
| wants the job is pretty impossible.
| dagw wrote:
| _is it possible to get something better for 50k?_
|
| If you are willing to do a lot of work yourself and value
| your time a $0 and aren't in a hurry, probably. Otherwise,
| this looks pretty good.
| harmmonica wrote:
| Absolutely possible. 50k for a 400 SF house that's built to
| modern code given those things you mentioned are already in
| place. To be specific, that's a full kitchen, with decent
| appliances, a full bath, 1 bedroom (though you _could_ fit
| 2 in 400 SF), a living room and some storage space.
|
| Not that it helps to write checks you have zero way of
| cashing, but we just built this:
| https://imgur.com/gallery/KbPlbPR/comment/2099542904. We're
| still working on the interior, but this design, if we
| increased its size to 400 SF, and given the things you
| mention being in place, could be had for 50k or less even,
| and it would be built better than most homes in the US.
|
| Just one guy's take, but my friend and I are trying to
| realize the dream of building more affordable housing that
| doesn't compromise on quality and design. We're just
| starting with this one project, though, so obviously a long
| way to go!
| thesausageking wrote:
| This house is 375 sq ft and uses low end materials, and it
| doesn't include setup, so it's going to cost ~$100k, or $266 / sq
| ft. Most new home construction is more like $150 / sq ft. And
| with this system, you're very limited in what you can build.
|
| Who's the target customer for this?
| gangstead wrote:
| I was wondering that myself. I fantasize about plopping a house
| down out in the desert, but their video shows a crane used to
| unfold it. By the time you get all the heavy machinery out
| there to prep the land and assemble the structure you're most
| of the way to just building something unique.
| vincbic wrote:
| Fully flat pack would make more sense. U-build have been
| doing some interesting thing: https://u-build.org
|
| Plus it can be self assembled
| harmmonica wrote:
| My friend and I were having a similar fantasy of putting
| places like that all over the western US so we started with a
| one-off project to build a tiny house so that it can just be
| "plopped" down (or rather rolled in).
|
| How big were you thinking? Something like 400 SF? Or a proper
| house?
|
| As I said in another comment on this thread I think it's
| possible to build something totally custom for a similar
| budget (200-250 psf) as long as it's on a trailer because you
| avoid most of the code and inspection issues in several
| western states by putting it on wheels.
|
| https://imgur.com/gallery/KbPlbPR
|
| Still working on the interior but this house is built better
| than my actual house in a high-cost market in California. It
| is super tiny though (200 sf and that includes the loft).
|
| edit: formatting
| gangstead wrote:
| Possibly that small, but I'm a family of five so sleeping
| that many quickly becomes a problem. Bunk beds and
| squeezing in are fine but we're +1 over what almost every
| dwelling considers family-sized.
|
| I hadn't considered a trailer because that usually requires
| a commitment to owning a huge truck. But are these trailers
| you are referring to more semi-permanent?
| datavirtue wrote:
| See: Destination Trailers
|
| https://www.forestriverinc.com/rvs/destination-
| trailers/sier...
| bluGill wrote:
| Semi-permanent trailers are common. Most camper trailers
| are not designed to go cross country - they are for the
| family who does a couple in-state vacations every summer.
| (at the cost of fuel a mini-van + hotel room is the same
| price as a truck + camper if you drive for 10 hours every
| day - that is assuming you have the truck and camper
| anyway and so there is zero cost to buying it)
| harmmonica wrote:
| Yeah, agreed, I've had so many conversations about this
| where people like the idea in concept but when you hear
| about people actually living in these it quickly becomes
| clear that it doesn't work for some folks. Specifically,
| though, in the 400 SF version that we'd like to build
| next (assuming we're able to actually sell the smaller
| one we're currently building) it would be on a 30-foot
| trailer and actually have two sleeping lofts. In that
| model, a minimalist family of 4 (minimalist, he says, as
| if!) could totally fit with the two adults in one loft
| and the two kids in another. At 3 children you start
| getting more difficult, but I'm sure you could do a 600
| SF house, but then a trailer large enough to build such a
| thing becomes difficult to move.
|
| Re needing a truck, plenty of folks tow tiny houses so
| that's no problem assuming you don't want to constantly
| move it. If you wanted to be truly mobile I personally
| question whether a tiny house really is the right vehicle
| (ha!) for that lifestyle. And the trailer we're using has
| jacks, which stabilize the trailer so, no, it's not semi-
| permanent, but when you jump around in ours you can't
| feel it moving at all. We also had a thought about adding
| a skirt to the trailer itself to increase curb appeal if
| someone purchasing it is going to leave it fixed in one
| location, but that's for when/if we sell. Gotta finish
| the interior first.
| prawn wrote:
| Using a trailer is the technique to bypass council
| judgements in Australia as well. Here are some Airbnb
| examples:
|
| https://cabn.life/book-now-2/
|
| Some of these would cost AU$70-110k though.
| Johnythree wrote:
| It depends on the State, but in most parts of Oz, you
| need a Building Permit, then a Certificate of Occupancy
| to be able to live there.
|
| The exception appears to be where there is already an
| approved dwelling on the land, and even then a Caravan
| can only be used temporarily (eg in your example of
| temporary AirBNB accommodation).
|
| I know because I've just lost exactly this battle with
| the local council.
| throwaway0a5e wrote:
| >but their video shows a crane used to unfold it. By the time
| you get all the heavy machinery out there to prep the land
| and assemble the structure you're most of the way to just
| building something unique.
|
| This[0]
|
| Is[1]
|
| A[2]
|
| Solved[3]
|
| Problem[4]
|
| But many municipalities prohibit it because if you make
| housing too cheap the "wrong kind of people" might move in.
| In the desert you shouldn't have problems though.
|
| [0] http://www.illmoveit.com/wp-
| content/uploads/2012/04/IMG_1521...
|
| [1] https://i.ytimg.com/vi/x9MwVxBK254/maxresdefault.jpg
|
| [2] https://ewscripps.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/994f83b
| /21...
|
| [3] https://i.ytimg.com/vi/BhU7yhMVdfE/hqdefault.jpg
|
| [4] http://www.pacificwalkhomes.com/wp-
| content/uploads/2014/08/a...
| gangstead wrote:
| The Boxabl house folds up much more compact and in their
| render at least it is being delivered behind a pickup
| truck. So it seems they are solving a different problem and
| might be able to get these things into places a large
| tractor with an extra-wide load might not be able to
| access. Though that is negated somewhat if you need a crane
| to deploy it as the video shows.
| iso1631 wrote:
| Isn't the insulation on those types of homes terrible?
| brudgers wrote:
| Once you have found the contractor to do all that, you're all
| the way...and off the end of the runway with two points of
| failure and no single responsibility when things don't line
| up.
|
| And the contractor is only making overhead and profit on half
| the work of a tiny budget which means that you are not a
| priority...even if the construction cycle was flat which it
| isn't.
|
| The efficiency of the market is why people don't build this
| way much. As Heinlein says every generation thinks it
| invented sex. They think they invented modular housing too I
| think.
| robotresearcher wrote:
| After they move in to their modular home and have sex a few
| times they will invent distance education.
| prawn wrote:
| Thought the same about the crane. Surely there is a way you
| could adjust these to avoid the crane? As in, have a pulley
| mechanism that could be built into the frame to lower the
| floor? And roof panels that slide across rather than fold
| over?
|
| But I guess you need to deliver the thing, and that means
| truck and crane anyway, unless they're towed to site and the
| trailer is part of it. Couldn't slide it off a trailer
| without damaging it. Unless you reinvent the trailer which
| significantly ramps up your costs.
| datavirtue wrote:
| $400 a day for the crane. Not a big deal.
| gangstead wrote:
| There's a render on the site where a regular looking pickup
| truck tows it to a site, then it unfolds itself magically.
| The video of an actual unit had the crane assist. Elon's
| house aside the product seems to be mostly vaporware so who
| knows what it actually requires.
| throwaway0a5e wrote:
| Crane is likely just for efficiency when working with
| labor paid by the hour.
|
| You could rope a few friends in and put it up with
| cribbing and a come along but it would take longer.
| hytdstd wrote:
| In the bay area, $250-300/sq ft is a more realistic low-end of
| the range.
| prepend wrote:
| So about the same as this.
|
| I love the idea of modular houses, but they seem so
| expensive. Especially when factoring in the inability to sell
| the same as houses, etc etc.
| sabujp wrote:
| please do tell which contractor charges $250-300sq/ft?! I've
| contacted at least 10 different contractors and they're all
| in the 400-500 range
| hytdstd wrote:
| These are numbers from 5 years ago. I didn't increase them
| to be conservative. 400-500 today wouldn't surprise me.
| foobiekr wrote:
| A friend is getting a master bathroom redone. $100k.
|
| The bay area is insane.
| xwdv wrote:
| The target customer is people with extra land who would like to
| put up an ADU on their land to make extra revenue from AirBNB.
| It could probably pay for itself within a year.
| wintermutestwin wrote:
| In my CA county, the newest ADU rule states that it can't be
| used for short term rentals. Of course, you are grandfathered
| in if you already had an ADU.
| Mumps wrote:
| within a year? probably pretty aggressive goal. Cheap case,
| $50k for the unit, $10k all setups (really really
| conservative).
|
| that's $5k revenue per month, or ~$165 per night averaged.
| Yes, some places could rent for ~$200/night, but I doubt
| you'll have 100% occupancy rate.
| xwdv wrote:
| If you go for the aggressive goal you'll probably fail but
| still get farther than if you pursued the modest goal.
|
| Besides, as an Airbnb rental it would definitely pay for
| its own mortgage over time.
| kderbyma wrote:
| people who don't think about that, but rush to sign up
| probably.
| toss1 wrote:
| The first idea that strikes me (aside form the obvious in-law
| apt addition) is to use this approach for the homeless.
|
| It's been shown that the best solution for many (non-mentally-
| ill) homeless is to literally provide a home. E.g., merely the
| fact of falling on enough hardships to lose a home and having
| no fixed address is a major impediment to getting a new job and
| becoming a homed, taxpaying resident.
|
| Yet I've read repeatedly that California is spending net $1
| million per home to create low-standard living spaces for the
| homeless. This is more than a 10X improvement in these costs.
| blacksmith_tb wrote:
| Sure, though some of that relies on your city having large
| parcels of empty land to situate them on. And these are much
| bigger and nicer than the ones we recently rolled out here in
| Portland[1] but cost almost 10X more, so you'd hope they are.
|
| 1: https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/tiny-home-pods-
| help-p...
| hogFeast wrote:
| In London, they used shipping container homes to house
| homeless people on unused local government-owned land. Pretty
| much instantly stories were in the media about how the
| conditions were "inhuman" (bizarrely, from people who had
| chosen to illegally immigrate to the UK from France, and
| complained that they had a nice house in Sudan or wherever).
|
| So I think the reality of these schemes is often...difficult
| because they are a non-ideal solution to a non-ideal problem
| (and unf, the alternative in the UK is sheltered housing with
| huge levels of crime, B&B which cost taxpayers PS150-200/day,
| or council housing that is worth PS500k-1m...again, there are
| no real solutions here).
|
| EDIT: btw, I should add...I have actually lived in a shipping
| container, I went to a boarding school and part of the school
| was being re-developed so a small number of proportion of the
| group had to spend a term in converted containers...no issue.
| It was totally fine. These kind of housing solutions are used
| pretty extensively in mining/oil and gas, and they are quite
| comfortable.
| AlgorithmicTime wrote:
| I lived in a CHU (Container Housing Unit) in Iraq... modern
| and comfortable enough. Only problem was when they did
| generator maintenance and the AC would turn off. But that's
| not related to the CHU itself.
| duxup wrote:
| A lot of the modular home type solutions seem to encounter the
| same thing.
|
| Cost savings on the surface but when things come together
| they're just not there.
|
| A lot of the actual prefabricated style solutions that do save
| money seem to be small changes within your traditional systems.
| bluGill wrote:
| The real cost savings is they build exactly the same 4 floor
| plans over an over again, and very little modifications are
| allowed. They then have jigs to cut the pieces to the exact
| size needed. Instead of a carpenter with a saw measuring a
| 2x4, they cut everything to the exact size needed without
| using a tape measure.
| pacetherace wrote:
| The construction prices you quoted are not correct at least in
| the Bay Area. And I am guessing $150/sq ft achievable at scale.
|
| Pricing ADUs is tricky because the some of things in a house
| cost same for a small to medium size home. For example, the
| costs of plumbing, electrical, kitchen, bathroom, etc are more
| of less the same between a 500 sq.ft. house and a 1000 sq. ft
| house.
| egman_ekki wrote:
| > the costs of plumbing, electrical, kitchen, bathroom, etc
| are more of less the same between a 500 sq.ft. house and a
| 1000 sq. ft house.
|
| Don't larger houses have multiple bathrooms, thus not the
| same cost for plumbing? At least when I watched Selling
| sunset, it seemed it's about having at least 3-4 bedrooms and
| 4 bathrooms in a house...
| vel0city wrote:
| The 1000sqft house versus a 500sqft house probably only
| adds a half bath. Its not like you're going to jump from
| one bath to five in another 500sqft. The plumbing work on
| adding a half bath in new construction really isn't too
| much when properly planned.
| bluGill wrote:
| Proper planning generally means those bathrooms are right
| next to each other, so the toilets use the same drain and
| vent pipes and water supply except for the last 2 feet.
| You ideally put the kitchen and laundry close as well. Of
| course you often cannot put everything close and that add
| cost, but it is attempted.
| handrous wrote:
| The drain's practically the only hard/slow part these
| days, and it's not really that bad. PEX makes everything
| stupid-fast for the water lines, given unfinished walls &
| ceilings.
| zed88 wrote:
| Apparently Elon Musk lives in one of these in TX.
| decebalus1 wrote:
| > Who's the target customer for this?
|
| People who fall for stuff like Hyperloop. The biggest problem
| with housing is not the building itself, its the land and the
| scarcity of it. This is yet another tech 'solution' in search
| of a problem. And that problem is political, not technical.
|
| INB4: but we're gonna deploy these on Mars!!
| mgolawala wrote:
| Land is not scarce. We literally make as much of it as we
| want. What makes it scarce is legislation and zoning.
|
| Look at Manhattan or Hong Kong. You just stack the homes and
| offices and stores on top of each other.
| decebalus1 wrote:
| Allow me to rephrase: space in desirable urban areas. Land
| is too specific.
| prawn wrote:
| Also, land with services connected - water, etc. Loads of
| cheap blocks of land out in the deserts of Texas.
| LightG wrote:
| Utilities?
| lmm wrote:
| Right, which is exactly why this technology does nothing to
| solve the problem. The housing shortage in SF isn't because
| they can't build like Manhattan or Hong Kong there, it's
| because they choose not to.
| goodpoint wrote:
| > The housing shortage in SF ... it's because they choose
| not to.
|
| And the choice it's entirely driven by financial
| speculation, nothing else.
| onion2k wrote:
| Certainly it would be possible to build higher than
| construction currently goes in SF, but permission is not
| the _only_ reason why there are fewer skyscrapers.
| Manhattan and Hong Kong are essentially massive regions
| of granite that you can build pretty much anything on top
| of. That sort of geology is not particularly common. You
| can 't just put up skyscrapers everywhere. They'd fall
| over eventually.
|
| https://blog.epa.gov/2015/07/14/the-manhattan-skyline-
| why-ar...
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geology_of_Hong_Kong
| bumby wrote:
| Counterpoint: Chicago skyscrapers.
|
| Chicago typically doesn't have well accessible bedrock. I
| know of one civil engineer who unexpectedly ran into
| granite and was able to sell it for added profit on a
| project. Point being, CE's don't typically expect great
| bedrock yet have developed methods to build skyscrapers
| in a city that was formerly a swamp.
|
| _" He says even though new technology makes it easier to
| find solid bedrock beneath 100 feet of wet clay, it
| doesn't always make sense to drill that deep. Modern
| engineers still use the same general principle Burnham &
| Root employed when they floated the foundations of the
| Monadnock Building on an even flimsier layer of soil
| known as desiccated crust: They just spread the
| load."_[1]
|
| [1] https://www.wbez.org/stories/building-skyscrapers-on-
| chicago...
| baybal2 wrote:
| > This is yet another tech 'solution' in search of a problem.
| And that problem is political, not technical.
|
| And the problem they search for has been solved half a
| century ago -- the modern highrise apartment building.
| f6v wrote:
| But that would mean you wouldn't be able to use cars and a
| public transportation system would have to be built.
| developer93 wrote:
| Oh no, that sounds terrible?
| f6v wrote:
| I wouldn't want to be the one to rob Americans of their
| trucks.
| viraptor wrote:
| That's good. But if you did want cars - that's totally
| doable. You build the garages in lower floors /
| underground and the apartments higher up. There's lots of
| buildings like that in central Melbourne for example.
| iso1631 wrote:
| You could decide to have 5 floors of garages from the
| ground floor up, and have 5 floors of roads to drive on
| (especially easy if you make it electric only for most
| vehicles - maybe confine heavy diesel vehicles to the
| ground floor with appropiate ventilation)
|
| Then on the 6th floor have a pedestrian/cycle floor
| that's sheltered from the elements, and the 7th floor
| have open parks, with 30 stories of housing and offices
| above.
| baybal2 wrote:
| It looks to be such a small, and insignificant detail :)
| rdtwo wrote:
| I mean tech has been great at disrupting political problems
| by simply overwhelming then with money. See Uber and Airb&b
| hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
| Looking at this primarily on a cost per square foot basis seems
| like the famous slashdot mistake of 2 decades ago of dismissing
| the iPod because it had less memory than a shitty competitor.
|
| I mean, it's an ADU, designed to be small, but would basically
| have the same fixed costs (appliances, plumbing, electrical) of
| a house twice the size, and I'm sure the manufacturers could
| make a house twice the size with only a marginally increased
| cost. But keeping it small is obviously ideal for people with
| limited yard space who are using this as an ADU.
| monkeynotes wrote:
| The headline touts cost, I think it's fair to look at the
| actual cost benefits. If Apple designed the iPod and promoted
| it based on cost Slashdot would have had a point. Apple never
| says 'hey look how affordable our product is'.
|
| This headline caught my eye as I'm interested in how the fuck
| people are going to afford homes in the near future. I am
| disappointed. The "home" is not somewhere young people can
| raise a family. It appears to be aimed at home owners who
| want more home which is entirely uninteresting to me.
| turtlebits wrote:
| Why is this not a home? This kind of mentality is what is
| wrong with the US housing market. People have to have
| houses bigger than they actually need, maximizing square
| footage, with tons of features don't provide additional
| living space (fireplaces, walk in closets, mud rooms, giant
| master baths). ~400sf can be perfectly fine for a small
| family.
| hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
| > The "home" is not somewhere young people can raise a
| family.
|
| Thus is such a bizarre complaint. So what, of course not
| all housing types are for people in all situations. But a
| primary reason housing costs are so high is there is simply
| not enough housing. If something like this became popular
| and added considerable density it would make housing
| generally more affordable for everyone because currently
| unused land would have people living on it.
| mekkkkkk wrote:
| I agree with your point, but you should s/cost/memory to
| make your comparison analogous. Slashdot was dismissing the
| iPod because it had less storage than a Creative Nomad and
| other popular players of the time.
| monkeynotes wrote:
| Well obviously comparing an iPod to a home is stupid in
| the first place. An iPod is a consumer product, where a
| home is a fundamental life component. Most people
| evaluate a home in terms of size, location, and cost
| alone. People will move into a dump if it's the right
| size, location, and cost. In other words, people have
| been happily living in Creative Nomads for centuries and
| this "iPod" home is not going to disrupt that in any way
| at all.
|
| The modular home does not innovate in the way an iPod
| uncovered a new consumer market. It does not exercise a
| cost advantage, or size advantage, nor does it out-
| compete a double-wide in terms of locatability.
|
| It's really just a stylistic advantage that wealthy
| people will find appealing. So putting "ONLY $50k" in the
| headline is misleading as that is not the real story
| here.
| tln wrote:
| No, I don't think they could make it twice the size -- it has
| to unfold from a standard TEU size!
| sjg007 wrote:
| And it's modular so there's probably the option to add on in
| the future for a lower cost. Adding a second story for
| example.
|
| I agree with the iPod analogy.
| gwbrooks wrote:
| Since they're very up front about referring to them as
| Accessory Dwelling units, the primary market is likely people
| who want to quickly put an ADU in place alongside a traditional
| single-family home for extra living space or rental income.
|
| About one-third of the cost of new multifamily development is
| typically tied up in zoning/permitting/planning processes.
| Against that backdrop, ADUs -- particularly if the city pre-
| approves designs, which seems like something this product would
| be ideal for -- are a growing part of housing inventory and
| housing affordability in many cities.
| chrisseaton wrote:
| 'Accessory Dwelling Unit' is the most depressing way to talk
| about a home I've ever heard.
| organsnyder wrote:
| I don't see it that way at all. Perhaps I've been too
| immersed in this terminology (I built an ADU a couple of
| years ago), but it makes sense given typical property
| descriptions: it's a dwelling unit (i.e. a place where
| people live) that's secondary ("accessory") to the primary
| dwelling. Or is the depressing part the fact that it
| assumes single family residences?
| chrisseaton wrote:
| 'Dwelling' sounds deeply depressing to me - to 'dwell'
| somewhere sounds like to simply exist in a space rather
| than actually living and thriving there. To 'dwell' on a
| problem means to sit and think quietly. And 'unit' to me
| sounds cookie-cutter and impersonal. This is your unit,
| just like everyone else's. Sit in your assigned unit and
| dwell in silence, human.
|
| I guess 'dwelling' and 'unit' don't have all those
| connotations to you?
|
| Why not just say 'home'? Even 'Accessory Home'.
| nraf wrote:
| It's a legal/regulatory term so I guess the coldness is
| to be expected:
| https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/accessory-dwelling-
| unit...
|
| Guess it comes down to your target audience. If you're
| market primarily consists of landlords looking to make
| rental income, ADU seems to fit the bill.
| CyberDildonics wrote:
| I don't know if you're a non-native speaker, but there is
| actually a popular magazine called dwell -
| https://www.dwell.com/
| monkeynotes wrote:
| Welcome accessory citizens to your new neighbourhood. A
| dystopia like this is not just on the horizon it's all but
| here already. "Middle class" is not meaningful any more.
| Working class has slipped into actual poverty and the
| middle class are now accessory to the wealth hoarders.
|
| Educated twenty-somethings don't have much of a future to
| look forward to. They can't even afford the land to put an
| Accessory Dwelling Unit on, they'll have to rent one from
| an existing home owner. They will be living on a salary
| that stalled in the 90s, dealing with ever rising food and
| environmental costs, and subsisting in a world where we
| have a perma-health watch reducing their freedom to
| socialize.
| thebean11 wrote:
| Seems like an intentional misunderstanding of the term to
| me. The building is an accessory to the house, not the
| person living in it..
| mekkkkkk wrote:
| What's a "perma-health watch", and how does it the reduce
| ability to socialize?
| [deleted]
| d883kd8 wrote:
| Guess
| monkeynotes wrote:
| I assume you are living in a time where a perpetual
| pandemic is something you've considered as becoming a
| reality[1]. With Covid mutations pushing countries back
| into lockdown you must see where we are potentially
| heading. Young people have had their university
| experience revoked. So many people go to university
| partly for the education and partly for the social
| experience. Finding love, new life long friends, and
| getting an education is what university used to mean to
| people. This is no more and may never be again. We are
| living in a time where our old life is being disposed and
| we don't even know it. I feel like most people think this
| is just temporary, well it's been almost a year and a
| half and we are still here. Life won't go back to how it
| was, ever. Too many paradigms have changed, and we have
| band aids for Covid that are just about keeping our hopes
| up. This hope will wane and we'll be work ourselves
| through to the final stages of grief as we accept our new
| lives in semi-isolation.
|
| [1] https://www.ft.com/content/1c7266b1-1fad-458e-8585-12
| dc3164f...
| https://nationalpost.com/news/postpandemic/its-only-the-
| end-... https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/13/moderna-ceo-says-
| the-world-w... https://www.businessinsider.com/when-will-
| the-pandemic-end-d...
| mekkkkkk wrote:
| All right. Yeah, I don't fully disagree. I just never saw
| the expression "perma-health watch" before, and was
| unable to parse it. English is not my native language.
| chrisseaton wrote:
| 'Permanent health-watch' is the way to read it.
| mekkkkkk wrote:
| Ah, that makes sense. I read it as "permanent-health
| watch". English compound words always confuses me.
| Thanks!
| orthecreedence wrote:
| Great for people who work in Human Resources.
| citboin wrote:
| " Who's the target customer for this?"
|
| People who otherwise could not afford to buy a house, I assume.
| teekert wrote:
| Personally, I don't like having neighbours, I like nature, I
| don't mind living small. Such a house would allow me to put
| more of my resources in land. Then if I need more room for
| stuff I can build that myself (stuff requires less isolation
| and there are less strict rules for it in my country, etc).
| sva_ wrote:
| Pretty sure you'll still need a concrete foundation, or
| else the house will slowly drift away. But plumbing is
| probably the hardest/most expensive thing about it.
| harmmonica wrote:
| I've said this elsewhere in the thread, but putting a
| small/tiny house on a trailer is a good option and won't
| drift away (at least not in the foreseeable future since
| it's on wheels with jacks to keep it in place). I think
| we've reached a point with composting toilets and grey
| water where plumbing is not that hard, nor expensive.
| Yes, you still need a water source, but running the
| actual plumbing lines is low-cost and as long as you're
| willing to use a composting toilet (no plumbing lines for
| that obviously) and make use of your grey water in/around
| your property (which in a lot of the western US should be
| the norm instead of the exception) it's pretty
| reasonable. Does require a different way of thinking
| about things and in a lot of urban areas the "state"
| might have regulations that prohibit some of these
| things.
| thesausageking wrote:
| A single wide mobile home, which is x2-3 as big as this, is
| cheaper than this costs. And, in most parts of the country,
| you can buy a full home with land for less than this costs
| installed.
|
| Their advantage seems to be how quickly they can deliver and
| install them. Digging into their website, it sounds like
| they're targeting temporary housing for natural disasters,
| etc. which makes sense.
| f6v wrote:
| Maybe they hope to get a beefy government contract to "end
| homelessness".
| onion2k wrote:
| Finland did that and reduced homelessness by 33%. It fell
| short of their goal of ending homelessness entirely, but it's
| hard to argue that a 33% reduction is anything short of
| amazing.
|
| https://www.centreforpublicimpact.org/case-
| study/eradicating...
| hellbannedguy wrote:
| If you can get this contraption on your property (foundation,
| plumbing hookup, electric, all permit fees.) for under 100k in
| a desirable area, like the Bay Area, it's a great deal.
|
| If I had a flat lot that was accesssble, I would look into this
| further.
|
| In my town, even with the protections Gov. Neusome provided,
| getting an ADU is still a hassle.
|
| In my town, rich people are using ADU's to add square footage
| to their existing houses. Some are actually successful with
| getting a variance, if they kiss enough ass. Or, know someone
| on that council, but I can't prove this alleviation now. I
| could a few years ago. Variances are over $1000, and until
| recently very few, like less than 1 percent, were granted. The
| town kept those fees though. Gotta keep those fees, and fines.
|
| That said, it's still a rich man's game:
|
| 1. Council members go over every aspect of your ADU.
|
| 2. They even had the gall to ask an older homeowner whom will
| be living in the ADU. The guy said it would probally be a
| attendant, but felt he didn't need to discuss his medical
| history on tv. (San Anselmo tapes their meeting. I guess it's
| for litigation fend offs? If that's the case, they are not
| doing themself's any good. They are obviously biased.)
|
| 3. The town has a right to tell you what color paint your
| addition will be.
|
| 4. The town tells homeowners to go to their neighbors, and
| basically beg for their remodel.
|
| 5. The town can determine where you place windows.
|
| 6. The town can tell you what kind of roof they will approve.
|
| 7. The town can tell you what kind of siding to use. Better not
| use stucco, if they want wood?
|
| 8. The town can dictate what plants you use around unit.
|
| (I'm conflating an ADU, and a remodel--a remodel usually
| requiring a variance. I'm not sure how difficult is is to just
| put in an ADU. If any town signed off on these modular units,
| they are quite a buy. I have my doubts.)
| dmos62 wrote:
| Those sound like good things. I live in a place where non of
| those demands are considered acceptable (or noone bothers to
| coordinate) and family-home suburbs look absurd. Every house
| is from another world, like the neighbors didn't exist.
| Color, style, fence, roof: everything is as random as you can
| imagine. It's a continuous spatial conflict.
| thatfrenchguy wrote:
| The thing is, in the Bay Area, suburbs still look absurd
| because rich people can build anything by greasing the
| local bureaucracy enough.
|
| It's obvious if you've ever set foot anywhere south of San
| Francisco: depressing, no common architectural style,
| really dumb land use, yet somehow you'd need a million
| permit to change a window on your house.
| hellbannedguy wrote:
| I'm with you on wealthy people who want to build huge
| houses.
|
| I'm not with you on the guy whom justs wants to remodel,
| with no increase on footage.
|
| (I don't like the increase in Permit fees either. It
| prevents basic upkeep on a home. Towns/cities know they can
| increase revenue by raising fees on anything. That's why we
| have $270 green righ turn citation. (you can only turn left
| on a green in certain situations. You need to wait for a
| green arrow.) If a county can't afford to fund employees,
| especialy nonessential personnel--fire them. We are not
| running a charity ward, as they like to say when asked
| about helping the homeless?)
| dmos62 wrote:
| As far as I'm concerned what I'm talking about doesn't
| have anything to do with remodeling, unless you're doing
| something janky.
| dsr_ wrote:
| It turns that I think it's really nice to be able to
| distinguish your house from your neighbors in a few words:
| "white colonial with a red roof, past the brick ranch and
| the blue Cape Cod".
|
| Having to say "Number 12702" really isn't the same.
| vaidhy wrote:
| I am very curious why you would want your house to look
| exactly like ( or coordinated) with your neighbor? One of
| the things I felt odd in US is that every house in a sub-
| division looks like they were made from cookie-cutter.
| Isn't expressing individuality and having the freedom to
| make use of your own land in way that suits you more
| important, as long as it does not impact the living
| conditions of your surroundings?
| dmos62 wrote:
| Copy-paste suburbs is bad too, that's the other extreme.
| What you want is for the architecture to have awareness
| of its surroundings and to have it seek harmony, not
| conflict.
| bluGill wrote:
| Different folks want different things. Though as time
| goes on more and more houses look different in style in
| the same neighborhood. There are limits though - there
| are only so many ways you can do a garage and the
| required drive from it to the street so that always looks
| similar.
|
| Most builders of spec houses intentionally buy just a few
| scattered lots in many different neighborhoods - that way
| they can build the same house they always build, yet not
| neighborhood has two houses that look alike. But there
| are neighborhoods where all houses are built exactly
| alike...
| cassonmars wrote:
| Those sound like good things to you -- some people prefer a
| world where they are free to do as they wish with the
| property they own, so long as it doesn't cause a problem
| for neighbors (I.E. basic maintenance to avoid pests,
| overgrowth, etc.). I have the opposite take on the
| neighborhood you described: uniformity is boring,
| uninspiring, and depressing.
| dmos62 wrote:
| The word uniformity puts a negative spin on the sense of
| cohesion I'd like to see (like uniforms). What I'm
| talking about is how a group of friends adjust to each
| other. They show a sense of togetherness, self-awareness
| and interplay that leaves a sense of harmony. I'm not
| talking about a platoon of soldiers in uniform at
| attention.
| minsc__and__boo wrote:
| >If I had a flat lot that was accesssble, I would look into
| this further.
|
| This was my thought as well. Seems like a quick and dirty
| solution to getting a house on an existing lot for immediate
| move in.
|
| If you're cost conscious then going the longer term route of
| building your own might be better.
| jiggliemon wrote:
| I looked into building an adu a few years back, and I can
| backup most of what you said. At least in California, in an
| incorporated city.
|
| We worked out that it would cost us $30k in fees, and
| required spending before we could even dig the footers.
| Things like a soil test, inspections, variance's etc.
|
| You can always build an ADU, but it's a rich mans game. And
| not really accessible to most people. We calculated our unit
| to cost roughly $80-90k, and would be almost 2x $/sqft of our
| home. A remodel made more financial sense, but the above
| problems still persist.
| wbl wrote:
| There are no variances for ADUs. The town is breaking state
| law. Talk to CaRLA about your options.
| throwaway0a5e wrote:
| >We worked out that it would cost us $30k in fees
|
| This is a feature not a bug.
|
| They don't want people who can't writing a 30k check doing
| development.
|
| They want the old elderly couple of limited means to move
| out and make way for some yuppie who will pay big taxes,
| not slap a bottom dollar ADU up so that they can be cared
| for by live-in relatives.
| spothedog1 wrote:
| It's literally the opposite. Old people are way richer
| and have the time and money to go through the
| bureaucracy. Also old people are much better connected to
| local politicians. Yuppies are who they're trying to
| repel, that's why they make it so hard. Its much more
| like a college student or yuppie would move into the ADU.
| nine_k wrote:
| Not all of them are rich, unless you count the value of
| their 80-years old home. They may have a high net worth
| but be cash-strapped.
| jonfw wrote:
| A house is much more liquid of an asset than most people
| make it out to be. Old folks qualify for reverse
| mortgages
| thatfrenchguy wrote:
| Please, in California, that "old elderly couple" pays no
| property taxes and can spend their life blocking housing
| for new middle class families (and they do, all the
| time).
| throwaway0a5e wrote:
| >Please, in California, that "old elderly couple" pays no
| property taxes
|
| That's why they want them out. To replace them with
| someone who pays big $$$$. What's so hard to get about
| this?
|
| They don't want them moving their caregiver into an ADU.
| They don't want them renting their ADU to supplement a
| fixed income. They want them gone. Since they can't tax
| them out they just prevent them from making money on
| their land value (via zoning) and let the COL do the
| rest.
|
| >and can spend their life blocking housing for new middle
| class families (and they do, all the time).
|
| The elderly sometimes do this but they are mostly
| scapegoats. The primary culprits are the 30-something on
| up through middle aged crowd who still need to work and
| need property values to remain high long enough that they
| can cash out of the ponzi scheme and retire to elsewhere.
| scotuswroteus wrote:
| You know the council doesn't directly receive the tax
| dollars, right? This is a conspiracy theory.
| coding123 wrote:
| I see everything starting at $300 / sqft. Last time I got a
| quote for $160/ft I called the guy 2 months later and he said
| he redid his construction business to focus on kitchen/bathroom
| remodels.
|
| Anyway, the site work for something is not going to be less
| than $50k. 50k if you're very lucky or are a contractor
| yourself.
| throwaway0a5e wrote:
| >Who's the target customer for this?
|
| 80% people who want the ease of setup of a double wide but
| really, really, really want to visibly distance themselves from
| the stereotypes and can afford to pay a premium and give up a
| lot of square footage to do so. (There's a reason this is on
| the front page of HN.)
|
| 20% developers who will pay big bucks to skirt some local
| busybody ordinance that says "no trailer homes".
| handrous wrote:
| Bingo. Same as "tiny homes". They're not solving a problem
| without an existing--possibly even superior--solution.
| They're just solving it in a way that doesn't offend one's
| class self-image. Modular homes, prefabs, trailer homes, RVs,
| all already exist and have for a long time--but they're
| associated with he wrong sorts of people.
| nroets wrote:
| A boom town where labour is really expensive and there is an
| acute housing shortage ??
|
| Or someone who thinks it's the future and love telling his or
| her guests about it. Or someone who's fascinated by IKEA
| furniture.
| tdeck wrote:
| Interestingly IKEA has been building homes for a while in
| Scandinavian countries: https://www.boklok.com/
|
| They also seem to be getting into the tiny house game:
| https://dornob.com/flat-pack-ikea-house-built-shipped-for-
| un...
| shagie wrote:
| Driving to Minot a decade ago... you'd see more modular
| houses on trailers on the road than cars at times. The flood
| of 2011 messed up a lot and this was also in the oil boom
| there.
|
| There were even tent cities for people there after the
| flooding.
|
| Yes, these modular houses would have been quite welcome
| there.
|
| A tangent question to this is "how easy is it to undo it?"
|
| A guy I know wants to do some major renovations on the house
| - gut it and fix it. It will take a year or two to do. In the
| meantime... where do you live?
|
| Another situation where this could have been useful would
| have been Biloxi after Katrina where, again, housing is
| needed in short order.
| ryanar wrote:
| If you think new home construction is $150 / sq ft. (in the
| US), you haven't been keeping up with the times. It was $220 /
| sq ft. before COVID, now its $300+ for stick built. Modulars
| are $200-$250. When material prices tripled, the cost got
| offloaded to the customer, and given the demand hasn't
| changed.. it probably isn't going to regress to the mean
| anytime soon.
| vlucas wrote:
| You can't just generalize like this. There is no standard
| price, as it is highly dependent on your geographic location.
|
| Before COVID I just built a fully custom house in the OKC
| area for $142/sq. ft. including all my upgrades (base was
| $135 including land in a subdivision). Prices have definitely
| gone up due to lumber and are now in the $155-165/sq. ft.
| range base including land.
| grumblenum wrote:
| Where I live the market rate was $100-125/sqft for single-
| family before the lumber supply squeeze. I think you just
| happen to live somewhere where inflation effects are ahead of
| the rest of us.
| lftl wrote:
| Are you quoting prices including the cost of the land? Around
| here there's plenty of new construction being sold at well
| under $200/sq. ft., and even a fair amount at or under $150 /
| sq. ft. This is even when you include the price of the land.
| j45 wrote:
| Construction prices should not be assumed to be
| standardized, comparable or equivalent between locations.
| lowercased wrote:
| agreed - many medium cost places in central NC are still
| under $200/sqft for new builds, including the land. It's
| typically a smaller lot than, say, 3-4 years ago, and the
| construction quality is (continually?) slipping, etc, but
| location is still a huge factor.
|
| We were close to pulling the trigger with a builder last
| fall and it was going to be around $180/sqft, and it was
| a custom build, and included around .8 acre. Lumber and
| material spike through the winter here has put that on
| hold (and put a lot of their building on hold) and we
| might not be able to afford a revised price when things
| 'get back' to normal. We'd actually had plans sent to an
| engineering firm who came back and said "you have to
| redesign this, because some of the foundational materials
| aren't available, and won't be for at least 6 months". So
| we couldn't even get a final price had we wanted to,
| without revising the original plans, and... there was no
| guarantee that whatever the redesign included would be
| available at that point (possibly _now_ it would - this
| was back in March /April?). We're basically in a holding
| pattern for a bit longer (as are some of the other
| customers they had lined up).
| j45 wrote:
| Supplies, land, labour, demand, location, taxes are some
| of the things that make it difficult to have a universal
| construction cost per sq foot.
|
| At a granular level maybe some comparisons are possible.
|
| The original premise of the comment above that because
| it's not the same as where I am.. it can't exist anywhere
| else is all I was shedding some light on.
| dcolkitt wrote:
| Maybe $200. I'd be shocked if there's still any new builds
| going for $150. Don't just trust the "sticker price".
| You're almost always going to pay 25%-50% higher than what
| the builder advertises.
| bluedino wrote:
| Even with current materials pricing? I live in a new
| development and the price went from $180/sqft to $300/sqft
| for the lowest end builds. We were all set to build our
| 'forever house' but we'd either spend 50% more or have to
| build a much smaller house, so we're just going to wait for
| a bit.
| lftl wrote:
| Yep:
|
| https://bit.ly/3w3XyeR https://bit.ly/3hmGBak
| DVassallo wrote:
| There's a big difference between spec houses and custom
| houses. I'm building a custom home in King County, WA right
| now, and it's almost impossible to build under $300/sqft.
| And no, doesn't include cost of land or land preparation
| costs.
| bluGill wrote:
| You can build a custom home for the price of a spec home.
| However it means sticking to the budget instead of
| upgrading. You can put a $15 light fixture in the
| bedroom, or a $50 one - spec homes do the former, custom
| homes all later - it doesn't seem like much but these all
| add up. The cost to build a custom home and a spec home
| is nearly the same if you are careful not to do any
| upgrades. Those upgrades cost money though - if you are
| planning to live in the house for many years I'd say they
| are worth it but be aware of what you are getting into.
| pen2l wrote:
| In the same way a lot of products have become cheaper because
| of some process optimization (packaged more compactly to reduce
| transportation costs), I'm excited to see modular homes/home
| 3d-printing etc. play out and become cheaper over time until
| they are more affordable than convention home construction or
| somehow unique and better in ways that conventionally
| constructed homes cannot be.
|
| To answer your question, one possible target customer is the
| rich (wo)man who wants a cabin house far away but something
| more comfortable than a cabin house.
| runawaybottle wrote:
| Maybe people in hurricane and flood zones? If you insist on
| living there, might as well live in a disposable house
| (Possibly want to get the price lower than 50k).
|
| Small aside, I just looked up what houses look like in other
| parts of the world. Very few look like houses found in the
| US.
| shalmanese wrote:
| The substack Construction Physics has an excellent overview
| of the now 100 year failed promise of modular building and
| the eternal cycles of the exact same value props being
| pitched in ambitious efforts to reform construction and why
| conventional construction has refused to be disrupted.
|
| Some great posts are:
|
| https://constructionphysics.substack.com/p/building-
| componen...
|
| https://constructionphysics.substack.com/p/operation-
| breakth...
|
| https://constructionphysics.substack.com/p/construction-
| effi...
|
| https://constructionphysics.substack.com/p/book-review-
| indus...
|
| https://constructionphysics.substack.com/p/industrialized-
| bu...
|
| Despite this, he's cautiously excited about some of the
| potential future industrialized systems such as Foldable
| Buildings https://constructionphysics.substack.com/p/folding-
| at-home 3D printing
| https://constructionphysics.substack.com/p/3d-printed-
| buildi... Plywood Systems
| https://constructionphysics.substack.com/p/facit-homes-
| wikih... And Broad Homes
| https://constructionphysics.substack.com/p/broad-group-
| part-...
| blueblisters wrote:
| Thanks for sharing these links! I was looking for an
| analysis of B-Core from Broad and I finally found one.
|
| Although I don't quite understand why they initially
| excited about B-Core but later call it poorly thought out.
| Is it because of the cost of stainless steel?
| robotresearcher wrote:
| > (wo)man
|
| 'Person' is the non-gendered word that goes here.
| yerwhat01010 wrote:
| How dare you exclude non-person furries, bigot.
| 0xfaded wrote:
| In old English man was gender neutral. Wer, as in werewolf,
| was the masculine. World comes from Wor-old, or literally,
| age of males.
| Ensorceled wrote:
| Pedant comes from French or Italian and meant teacher or
| schoolmaster.
| zimpenfish wrote:
| Are there any countries or communities that currently use
| "old English" as their native language?
| dkdbejwi383 wrote:
| No, that's why we call it "old" English, as opposed to
| "South-African", "New Zealand", etc.
| zimpenfish wrote:
| > No, that's why we call it "old" English
|
| Which surely means it has little relevance to a
| conversation about modern English then, no?
| UncleMeat wrote:
| We know. But language shifts.
| wombatpm wrote:
| But with 'son' in the word doesn't it's usage continue to
| promote the patriarchy?
| dkdbejwi383 wrote:
| No, "Son" as in "male child" is derived from Porto-
| Germanic "Sunnus", "person" as in "human being" is
| derived from Latin "persona". It's just a coincidence
| that in modern English we write them with the same
| characters.
| spijdar wrote:
| There are some (fringe?) groups who'd argue against this,
| evidenced by variant spellings like "womxn" and "womyn"
| that are attested since the 70s, in order to remove "man"
| from the words. Different in that "woman" _is_
| etymologically an extension of the word "man", but
| somewhat absurd because the etymological root was gender
| neutral, with a separate word attested for "masculine"
| man.
|
| Point being, perception of a word can be more meaningful
| to some people than the historical meaning.
|
| Good 'ole prescriptive vs descriptive linguistics...
| teekert wrote:
| I guess you can find fringe groups against anything
| -\\_(tsu)_/-
| dkdbejwi383 wrote:
| This kind of thinking, linguistic relativity - that the
| words available to you shape your worldview - is not
| really held in high regard as I understand it. At least
| not in the hard sense, where one is completely unable to
| conceptualise something because they don't have the words
| to express it.
|
| For example, some have claimed that if we had no separate
| terms for "man and woman", "male and female", etc, we'd
| be unable to perceive a difference between the two.
|
| > the etymological root was gender neutral, with a
| separate word attested for "masculine" man
|
| For anyone playing at home, this is "were" or "wer". The
| phrase "man and woman" would once have been something
| like "were and wif", which is where the "were-" in
| "werewolf" comes from, and is the ancestor of "wife".
|
| If we want English to be more gender-neutral, we could
| revert to werman, wifman and man.
| spijdar wrote:
| Oh, for sure. I didn't mean to suggest it's a common or
| respected belief, only that there are some who support
| it.
|
| (and probably more who use examples of it in bad faith
| arguments presuming that such groups exist in larger
| numbers, e.g. "look at those crazy feminists!")
|
| > If we want English to be more gender-neutral, we could
| revert to werman, wifman and man.
|
| There's a part of me that loves this idea, even if I
| recognize the absurdity of suggesting it. I guess it's
| made more sense to me than trying to replace a large
| portion of English vocab en masse, like all the
| vocational terms ending in "-man".
|
| A curious example of a Germanic cousin of English that
| underwent the same "masculinization" of the word man but
| "came back" is Swedish, where the word "man" means "adult
| male", but is also used as a neuter pronoun meaning
| "generic person" (usually translated as "one" in
| English).
|
| As far as I know the other Nordic languages didn't
| develop this usage, but I'm less familiar with them.
| dkdbejwi383 wrote:
| > A curious example of a Germanic cousin of English that
| underwent the same "masculinization" of the word man but
| "came back" is Swedish, where the word "man" means "adult
| male", but is also used as a neuter pronoun meaning
| "generic person" (usually translated as "one" in
| English).
|
| We sort of have this in English too: "That's one small
| step for a man, one giant leap for mankind". Although I
| can't think of any cases where we use "man" alone to mean
| "one".
| carlhjerpe wrote:
| "That's one small step for a person, one giant leap for
| personkind"
|
| Time to rewrite the history books! (1984 anyone?)
|
| "_Man_ borde inte tvinga andra att anpassa sig efter en
| skrikig minoritet" (_One_ should not force others to
| conform to a loudmouthed minority)
| developer93 wrote:
| Also German, kinda: Man darf nicht.. Frau/Mann
| kozak wrote:
| In my native language (Ukrainian), the word "person"
| (liudina) is always feminine. Even if someone wanted to
| say "I'm a very masculine person", they would still need
| to use a feminine form of the word "masculine" to say
| "masculine person". And no one has ever had any issues
| with that, ever.
| jaclaz wrote:
| In Italian (which shares I believe no common roots with
| Ukrainan) it is the same, "person" (persona) is always
| feminine, and of course goes with feminine articles and
| adjectives are conjugated at the feminine gender and as
| well noone ever had issues with that.
| kozak wrote:
| Yes, it is the same thing. Italian and Ukrainian belong
| to the same language family (Indo-European), so they are
| distantly related.
| jaclaz wrote:
| Well, quite distantly I believe, I mean Slavic vs.
| Latin/Romance languages.
| carlhjerpe wrote:
| That would probably be because It's just a superficial
| issue for people with too much time and money on their
| hands to enforce their ways upon others.
| brudgers wrote:
| If you are rich, there are a lot of options that are likely
| to better cater to your richness. Or why build a 50k shed on
| a million dollar piece of ground?
| j45 wrote:
| Savings of time to build and use, can be removed as easily
| as it's deployed.
| brudgers wrote:
| $50k will buy a reasonably nice RV that includes wheels
| and a hitch and such options abound.
| tim333 wrote:
| In Elon's case so you can have a few hundred on the not
| very expensive land at Starbase Texas.
| brudgers wrote:
| As always, the premise is "you should" not "I should."
| akomtu wrote:
| That's a contrived example. I assume someone rich would hire
| a construction firm to make a fancy treehouse.
|
| The target audience for these are squeezed between owners of
| trailer parks and cheap shacks.
| jws wrote:
| Tiny houses have a large cost per square foot. One of the early
| forces in tiny houses remarked that his house was
| simultaneously the smallest in his city and the most expensive
| per square foot.
|
| Part of it is the cube square law's little brother, the "square
| linear law?" You have proportionately more wall for the
| enclosed area. On top of that you still have the expensive
| bits... bathrooms and kitchens.
| metalliqaz wrote:
| Yes this is true. $/ft2 is only really useful to realtors.
| Most home shoppers probably understand things more like cost
| per living space (rooms)
| bick_nyers wrote:
| At that point, if you have the land for it, why not just go
| for an "efficiently sized" home. Like 500-700 sqft.
| fulafel wrote:
| It's a big waste of energy to cool and heat a house bigger
| than you really need, an ethical problem in this day and
| age (global warming).
| bick_nyers wrote:
| True, although a lot of smaller houses/tiny homes will
| use mini splits for their heating/cooling, which are
| significantly more energy efficient than central AC
| units. Insulation is also relatively cheap. Solar is an
| option to offset it as well, although extra insulation is
| a much easier and cost effective option here (at least in
| the short term).
|
| Most houses that are classified as tiny are in the
| 200-400sqft area, so while a "small home" is about twice
| as large at 500-700sqft, we gotta remember that most
| houses are 1500sqft anyways, so we are still coming out
| ahead.
|
| Plus, I think it's much much easier to convince the
| average joe to live in a 500-700sqft home than in a
| 200-400sqft home.
| kbenson wrote:
| What are you basing a $50k setup cost on?
| supermatt wrote:
| Transportation, assembly, foundation, utilities, sewage. Ive
| looked at similar systems myself.
|
| EDIT: They also state this in their FAQ
| (https://www.boxabl.com/faq/): -
| Transportation = $2-$4 per mile from las vegas -
| Assembly = "Boxabl only sells room modules. We will connect
| you with a Boxabl certified and state licensed installer in
| your area." - The rest = "Whats not included in that
| price is your land and site setup. This can include utility
| hookups, foundation, landscaping, permits, and more.
| Depending on your location and the complexity of your site,
| this cost can range anywhere from $5,000 to $50,000."
| kbenson wrote:
| > They also state this in their FAQ
|
| $5k to $50k is a big range. In the video on the article
| about Musk's unit[1] they state they're initially targeting
| Accessory Dwelling Units, and specifically California's
| recently relaxed laws regarding them. I'm not sure the laws
| specifically regarding those (but there's info here[2]),
| but I suspect it's a lot cheaper when you're allowed to
| hook up to the existing house's sewer and power.
|
| It may well be closer to $100k all said and done for a unit
| not set up as an ADU, but I suspect that the answer to the
| original question (of who this targets) is "not the people
| that need to pay $50k in install fees, at least not
| initially".
|
| 1: https://www.teslarati.com/elon-musk-50k-house-texas-
| pictures...
|
| 2: https://www.hcd.ca.gov/policy-
| research/accessorydwellingunit...
| supermatt wrote:
| yeah, its a big range, depending on if most of that stuff
| is already in place - in which case it has (mostly)
| already been paid for.
|
| As for the target audience, i think it is people who want
| a building within a few days.
|
| As I mentioned, I looked at a number of similar systems
| myself (we have a number of providers of modular or flat-
| pack buildings in Europe).
|
| I decided against modular, and had a custom built 6x12m
| 1.5-story log-build. The pricing was similar - but it
| took months to complete.
| RickJWagner wrote:
| Looks great for movie sets.
| 01100011 wrote:
| Instant ADUs... Great, an easy way to increase the density of
| suburban neighborhoods that weren't designed for it while
| enriching wealthy landowners and providing sub-standard housing
| to the lower class.
|
| Shower thought: when will we see a company like Amazon or Costco
| experiment with providing an entire city, leveraging their
| efficient production chains and cost-cutting techniques? Would
| you live in a pre-fab town engineered to your demographics (even
| if Amazon owned all your data)?
| buf wrote:
| Did you see the latest Loki? In the year 2050(?), they had a
| town in Alabama owned and operated by a company named Roxxcart.
| hytdstd wrote:
| >providing sub-standard housing to the lower class.
|
| Can you elaborate on the problem with this? I don't see how
| adding an ADU to the market hurts the lower class.
| stevenicr wrote:
| the way I read the comment, it's a way to create a new lower
| class - while propping up landowners.
|
| "enriching wealthy landowners and providing sub-standard
| housing to the lower class"
|
| While I don't think all or most 'average home(land)owners are
| "wealthy" ' - It is an interesting view to consider - there
| is an income bracket that could afford these in someone
| else's backyard - and likely never save enough money for a
| down-payment on a similar located chunk of suburban land -
| and being in that spot you may see the average homeowner as
| being wealthy comparatively.
|
| Just because I read it that way, does not mean that's the way
| the OP intended it - I dunno what the full though process
| was. This may simply reflect the cascading experiences I have
| had and lead me to think of it in that light.
|
| I myself hope that ADUs are a standard option in all zoning
| across the country and only in rare cases prevented.
|
| I can see positive and negative things coming from increased
| housing supply in areas, i think it's fair to consider many
| side effects and consider ways to buffer any negative effects
| as well.
| musingsole wrote:
| > sub-standard housing
|
| > increase the density of suburban neighborhoods that weren't
| designed for it
|
| GP's vision of how this hurts the lower class seems readily
| apparent.
| hytdstd wrote:
| If the ADU is sub-standard, then the lower class can choose
| to not live there.
|
| I didn't ask about the density statement, I understand the
| argument the GP made.
| lovich wrote:
| > If the ADU is sub-standard, then the lower class can
| choose to not live there.
|
| Buddy, not for nothing but that sentence could be a
| textbook definition of a synonym for "Let them eat cake"
|
| Are the lower class supposed to use their vast sums of
| savings to choose more expensive housing? If a 20 year
| old Toyota Corolla with 200k miles is substandard for
| them can they simply choose to buy new?
| hytdstd wrote:
| I earnestly believe that an ADU (or anything, such as a
| car) on market provides an option. That is what I was
| trying to say.
|
| My original question was this: how does adding an ADU to
| the market hurt the lower class?
| lovich wrote:
| I don't think providing an adu of <120 sq ft will hurt
| the lower class in the same that I don't think sweatshops
| in developing countries are hurting the lower class. I
| get how they aren't great but the fact that people will
| use/work at them without coercion shows that they are
| better than nothing. I agree that you are correct there.
|
| What am I pointing out is how you phrased your statement
| like the lower class has other options than the cheapest
| option available, whether or not it's sub standard.
|
| If you are unaware the mythological story around Marie
| Antoinette is that when she was told the peasantry could
| no longer afford bread responded with "let them eat cake"
| because she did not understand that going above the
| basics was not a viable option.
|
| The phrasing of your statement combined with the reality
| of the world came off like you were suggesting the lower
| class can simply spend more money if they didn't like the
| low tier housing, regardless of your actual intent
| ctdonath wrote:
| This is part of an ongoing attempt to create quality
| affordable housing - just as other products have done
| over time.
|
| If the product weren't there, the option wouldn't be
| there - and your reasoning functionally favors driving
| down lower classes by denying them steps up.
|
| No, there is not some grand capitalist conspiracy to
| subjugate multitudes into poverty to seize their paltry
| holdings. Capitalism raises the poor by giving them
| options that benefit both parties; the burgeoning ADU
| market seeks to give better homes to poor, which is a
| hard goal with limited (but existing!) incentives.
| lovich wrote:
| I feel like no one responding to me in this thread is
| capable of understanding how the tone of your wording
| changes how it is received by others.
|
| I understand how capitalism works and that this provides
| an option that wasn't available before.
|
| Telling people who have next to nothing that they can
| simply choose another house if they think this one is sub
| standard, while factually accurate, makes you sound like
| a complete asshole who doesn't understand that they don't
| have the resources to pick other options
|
| That's the entire point I'm making. Any response about
| capitalism or ADUs is ignoring my point and talking past
| me
| atwebb wrote:
| Amazon is building a bunch of workforce housing in some cities
| I believe (probably someone here knows a bit more).
|
| Also, queue up Sixteen Tons and some mentions of company scrip.
| jfim wrote:
| > Shower thought: when will we see a company like Amazon or
| Costco experiment with providing an entire city, leveraging
| their efficient production chains and cost-cutting techniques?
|
| This was a thing a century ago:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sears_Modern_Homes
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| Did you read that comment right? Selling pallets of materials
| and blueprints to individual people to make a single house is
| not even close to building up a wide area themselves.
| fighterpilot wrote:
| > Shower thought: when will we see a company like Amazon or
| Costco experiment with providing an entire city
|
| Hershey did that in 1903, although it was more a means to an
| end rather than a product in itself.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hershey,_Pennsylvania#History
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| I thought I saw a lot of corporate-branded housing
| (skyscrapers) in Seoul years ago but I may have been mistaken
| about their function.
| baybal2 wrote:
| http://www.koreasigns.com/wp/wp-
| content/uploads/2010/01/apar...
| cbhl wrote:
| They already did. Circa the early 1900s -- the Sears catalog
| offered kit homes by catalog. All the necessary parts would
| come, pre-cut, in a wax-sealed boxcar.
| [deleted]
| iso1631 wrote:
| Not bad price, although doesn't seem to exist at the moment, it's
| about half the price of a popup house in the UK (Shown UK price
| includes tax at 20% - so 5m*7m is PS75k plus tax, or $104k)
|
| https://www.theannex.co.uk/garden-annexes/annex-1/
|
| Be interesting how quality varies
| Glyptodon wrote:
| For the multistory ones how do you get between stories?
| DonHopkins wrote:
| Tesseracts.
| gangstead wrote:
| In one of the carousel of images they show more box layouts
| [coming soon](https://www.boxabl.com/more/) including a "stair
| box" with a stair case leading up in the back, but there's no
| accompanying "upstairs" layout with a hole in the floor, so I
| think multi story boxes are more of an idea for the investor
| pitch deck at this point. I think all they are selling right
| now is the one layout.
| LightG wrote:
| Reminds me of the Stacks in Ready Player One ...
|
| Sure, maybe these are good as temporary accommodations ... maybe
| a garden shed or home office ... but take the new-home glaze off
| of them, and add the patina of life, and these will eventually be
| classified as slum housing.
| myphs wrote:
| This doesn't look like it's sustainable at all. But as they say
| themselves, it can be very useful for disaster situations.
| bstockton wrote:
| These have piqued a lot of people's interest around me. My friend
| recently quit a steady job to go work at Modal
| https://livemodal.com I have wondered about the necessity of a
| crane though, seems like a pretty big limiting factor.
| prawn wrote:
| I thought about the crane too, but assume you need a truck and
| crane to get it delivered anyway?
| agumonkey wrote:
| Curious about how reversible the unpacking is. This means near no
| house destruction on site.. you remove your stuff, fold it and
| lift it away
| CalRobert wrote:
| This kind of thing is great, though for areas where homes are
| expensive it's clear they'll be made illegal to remove
| competition for the housing cartel.
| hitekker wrote:
| Edit: I stand corrected, see below.
|
| Sadly no in-unit washer/dryer.
|
| Interesting that their product is called "casita" since the
| company "Kasita", which also specialized in tiny homes, recently
| folded.
|
| https://www.kasita.com/
| readflaggedcomm wrote:
| "Casita" simply means small house in Spanish. Also, the front
| page lists "washer/dryer" under "out of the box".
| mosselman wrote:
| "Accessory Dwelling Unit" seems like the perfect name for this
| dystopian live in coffin.
| Dorothy59 wrote:
| That's a contrived example. I assume someone rich would hire a
| construction firm to make a fancy treehouse. The target audience
| for these are squeezed between owners of trailer parks and cheap
| shacks.
|
| https://www.advancedmd.run/
| Ensorceled wrote:
| Why is there a link to AdvancedMD in this comment? Also, it's a
| copy/paste of an older comment, just spam.
| nickelcitymario wrote:
| Am I blind, or is this home missing a toilet?
| tomc1985 wrote:
| How about we bring back Sears' prefab housing?
| kova12 wrote:
| would be pretty expensive if made up to code.
|
| Also, something many of us are forgetting about: value of house
| is mostly not a structure. Having this house on 1/8 acre lot in
| the middle of desert would be horrible. You need water, sewer,
| power, internet, grocery stores, farms, parks, hospitals, gyms,
| coffee shops, theaters, airports. Structure alone wouldn't
| provide for this. It's the access to all the infrastructure
| that makes home so valuable
| mywittyname wrote:
| The standardization in the building trade didn't exist back in
| the Sears catalog days. For example, 2x4s come in 8ft lengths,
| using 16 on center studs, 8 2x4s will provide 8 foot of wall,
| and two sheets of drywall will cover it. And you can order all
| of the cabinetry, trim, shower enclosures, etc in a form that's
| ready for installation.
|
| A Sears prefab home would not be cheaper today because the
| inefficiencies that they solved in the early 1900s are no
| longer a problem. That, and it's infeasible for a person to
| construct their own house anymore, given building codes and
| such.
|
| Cookie cutter homes can be ridiculously cheap to build if done
| correctly. In really large developments, it's common for teams
| to move from house to house every day. Almost like an assembly
| line. This cuts down on a tremendous amount of wasted time.
| bigthymer wrote:
| > it's infeasible for a person to construct their own house
| anymore, given building codes and such
|
| What has changed that this is no longer possible any more?
| bluGill wrote:
| You need to be a licensed plumber to touch anything that
| connects to the public water supply. While there is nothing
| hard about plumbing, doing something stupid could poison
| the whole town and so towns are paranoid.
|
| For everything else, you can do all the work yourself if
| you have time. I've done framing as a job so I have the
| experience to build a wall about as fast as any
| professional crew. I do my own electrical work but it takes
| me much longer than a real electrician (it passes
| intersection, though I'm more likely to need to fix
| something and get a second inspection). I can plan and
| schedule all the contractors for anything I don't want to
| do myself, but my inexperience means I would need to pad
| the schedule a lot more than a general contractor (and the
| fact that I'm not a regular customer means I'm not top of
| their list to get my job done)
|
| Each city and sometimes inspectors have their own codes.
| Sometimes they are good things (going beyond the basic
| codes), sometimes the inspector is just making things to
| enforce even though there is no engineering reason for
| that.
|
| There is no reason you can't build your own house (except
| plumbing). However it will take a lot of effort.
| Professionals are up on all the codes and the latest tricks
| and so will be a lot faster.
| mywittyname wrote:
| Well, I said infeasible, not impossible.
|
| You can do a large chunk of the work yourself (with a
| crew). But utility hookups are a no-no without a license.
| And you'll _probably_ need to hire a crane operator at some
| point. Plus, there are a ton of building codes in regions
| that are different from other regions. So you 'd better get
| those all right unless you enjoy rework.
| rtpg wrote:
| I wish some of these interior designers would check out European
| or Japanese apartments for the layout. You could do a lot better
| (and I would never want to have to use the sink proposed in that
| clip on a day-to-day basis). That A/C location is just plain
| wrong (the kitchen is where you'll spend the least time). And
| that shelf splitting the living room + the bedroom? What?
|
| Meanwhile you have like... storage for plates for 20 people as if
| you could ever feed more than 3 people at once. And that double-
| door fridge... I imagine that if you're in a more rural area it's
| more necessary but there's a lot better choices here if you are
| actually trying to make a livable space, instead of a place that
| offers good shots. This looks a lot like a "set up your own
| AirBnB" thing. So much so I wouldn't be surprised if AirBnB made
| a strategic investment in this.
| kbenson wrote:
| > This looks a lot like a "set up your own AirBnB" thing. So
| much so I wouldn't be surprised if AirBnB made a strategic
| investment in this.
|
| In another video they talk about how initially they are
| targeting the recently lessened restrictions on backyard units
| in CA, so yeah, AirBnB and people looking to rent out granny
| units are the current target I think.
|
| > Meanwhile you have like... storage for plates for 20 people
| as if you could ever feed more than 3 people at once.
|
| Assuming you can't have outdoor furniture and and host people
| outside? One of the benefits of a small house might be more
| usable outdoor area. In Northern California, you generally get
| at _least_ 3 /4 of the year with good weather you can be
| outside fairly comfortably, and you get quite a bit more in
| Southern California. I've heard Arizona is quite nice all the
| time except for the summer months.
| Thlom wrote:
| Similar concept in Norway with better interior design I think.
| Some pictures if you scroll a bit down.
| https://www.lampholmen.no/rom-for-a-leve/lampholmen--mikrohu...
| tut-urut-utut wrote:
| Doesn't look much cheaper than a regular home. Maybe faster to
| build, but not necessary cheaper.
|
| It would not help battle the overvalued property prices, since in
| most expensive areas it's the land that drives home price up, not
| the building price itself.
| protomyth wrote:
| Does anyone know of any kits that would work in a northern
| climate with occasional high winds that would be suitable for a
| small family?
| rmason wrote:
| Surprised no one here has mentioned that Elon Musk is living in a
| Boxabl house in Austin, TX. This has totally perplexed the people
| who follow his every move.
|
| https://www.chron.com/news/space/article/elon-musk-texas-hou...
|
| I think that he might possibly be doing his homework. Can you
| imagine a Boxabl house outfitted with a solar roof, a Tesla
| battery and a Starlink dish?
|
| I could see people having a remote cottage not hooked into the
| power line. I just know that Elon Musk doesn't do stuff without a
| reason.
| johnnyfived wrote:
| "I think that he might possibly be doing his homework."
|
| I believe you're dead on, this guy's an absolute baller of a
| CEO (running 3 totally game-changing startups) and completely
| immerses himself in his work and research.
| postpawl wrote:
| "The coronavirus panic is dumb" -Elon Musk (March 6th 2020)
| squarefoot wrote:
| Everyone has the rights to behave as an idiot, including
| Musk. To his partial defense, he minimized the risks, got
| Covid, then it seems he changed his stance on the matter. A
| bit late, but better than never.
|
| "To be clear, I do support vaccines in general & covid
| vaccines specifically. The science is unequivocal. In very
| rare cases, there is an allergic reaction, but this is
| easily addressed with an EpiPen." -- Elon Musk (@elonmusk)
| April 7, 2021
| decebalus1 wrote:
| I admire your admiration of him, it's a sign you haven't
| reached the level of cynicism required to classify him in the
| 'snake oil salesman' category yet.
| kumarvvr wrote:
| Snake oil salesmen do not send self landing rockets to the
| ISS.
|
| He may have a bit more hype and may be manipulative in some
| ways, but you have to admit that he has given a good amount
| of technological progress to the world.
|
| Would you think the big car companies would scramble for
| electric cars if not for Tesla?
| Someone wrote:
| _"Would you think the big car companies would scramble
| for electric cars if not for Tesla?"_
|
| Yes, I would. Technological progress gives lawgivers room
| to tighten emission rules, and that's what drives car
| makers. Tesla sped up that process, but not by much, IMO.
|
| I also don't think 'scramble' is the right word. Tesla
| was (maybe even is: they make a profit from selling
| emission rights, and a big buyer says they don't need
| them anymore. See https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-
| emissions-credits-sale...) wiling to sell at a loss in
| order to get market share and brand awareness. The big
| companies need neither, so they stepped in later.
| mlindner wrote:
| I doubt it. The car companies have/had outsourced almost
| all of their manufacturing other than their core IP,
| engine production. If it didn't have an engine in it, it
| wouldn't have been built. They would have produced
| hybrids, but I doubt we would have seen any pure-EVs
| outside of hobbiest production or limited run hypercars
| by today.
|
| Eventually maybe, but Tesla vastly accelerated that
| schedule.
| UncleMeat wrote:
| _SpaceX_ sent a self landing rocket to the ISS. CEOs
| matter, but Musk seems to consistently get more credit
| for his company 's successes than other leaders. His
| reality distortion field that enables him to hire very
| strong engineers is his biggest boon.
| mlindner wrote:
| Musk is a lot more involved in day to day operations at
| SpaceX than a lot of people seem to understand. Shotwell
| on division of labor with Musk:
|
| > The way Elon and I share the load, he focuses on
| development. He's still very highly engaged in the day-
| to-day operations, but his focus is on development. He
| was the lead on Starlink, and I started shifting my focus
| to Starlink around late spring, early summer of last
| year. Elon's focus in that time was moving to Starship,
| that is his primary focus at SpaceX. It doesn't mean he's
| not thinking about the company on a day-to-day basis, but
| his emphasis is to get the Starship program to orbit.
| UncleMeat wrote:
| Even if SpaceX was his only company, he still is just one
| person. I'm not talking about Musk specifically, but CEOs
| generally. In almost no circumstance does it make sense
| to assign engineering success to a CEO in the way it was
| done above. CEOs are responsible for hiring executives
| and setting and enforcing vision and values. That's
| important but it isn't the whole story.
| kumarvvr wrote:
| What I understand is that Musk is very skilled at taking
| highly technical decisions, that have huge risks and
| financial implications.
|
| Take the example of the decision to re use rocket
| engines. Its a highly technical decision that has huge
| financial repurcussions and essentially the whole basis
| for the low cost business model of SpaceX.
| goodcanadian wrote:
| _Would you think the big car companies would scramble for
| electric cars if not for Tesla?_
|
| I feel some people give Tesla too much credit on this
| one. When I arrived in the UK (3 years ago), there were
| Nissan Leafs and Renault Zoes everywhere. It was rare
| that I saw a Tesla. Tesla's are much more common, now,
| but so are many other models. I would not say that Tesla
| has driven the market at all, here.
| sumedh wrote:
| Elon delivered on his promise of using reusable rockets
| which other govts and billionaires could not do, how is
| that snake oil?
| uxcolumbo wrote:
| You might find this interesting
|
| Debunking Elon Musk
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-FGwDDc-s8
| cowsandmilk wrote:
| My guess is that a man known for sleeping at the office is
| literally doing just that except with a bed instead of on the
| floor.
| baybal2 wrote:
| I wouldn't be surprised if he was living in some space pod.
| Musk Elon is such a weird man.
| gdsdfe wrote:
| that would be cool, I would buy that
| tim333 wrote:
| There's a video from Boxabl pitching their stuff to Elon
| https://twitter.com/i/status/1367548452633206789
|
| The pitch kind of makes sense - he's trying to have a lot of
| people work at Starbase but there isn't much housing there so
| they could sort it by installing a lot of Boxabl units. Also
| the things are high tech made in a factory which fits a bit
| with the Tesla model.
|
| I imagine he's trying one out for a bit before maybe ordering a
| bunch for the other workers. See also Teslarati
| https://www.teslarati.com/elon-musk-50k-house-texas-pictures...
| iso1631 wrote:
| Are brick homes common in the US? I see lots of mention about
| wooden frames when discussing tradition vs pre-fab, but nothing
| about brick.
|
| Typical new house in the UK is two layers of brick (with filled
| cavity) with a wooden roof with tiles on the top.
| bluGill wrote:
| Not common. Wood is a lot cheaper, strong enough (brick is
| hard, but it isn't actually very strong). Wood is also easy to
| modify in a few years when you want to make changes.
| bunkydoo wrote:
| It's funny how people have this hate of trailer parks and you can
| just hear it in the way they talk down on it. But somehow tiny
| houses and modular homes that cost even less are somehow
| completely acceptable and beloved.
| pyrophane wrote:
| There is so much marketing to the effect of "millennials love
| tiny homes!" I can't help but think if regular homes were even
| slightly affordable for the average 30-something, there would be
| no tiny home trend.
| Shank wrote:
| Cover [0] also has a similar business based on this. They're
| focused on ADUs too, but their intent seems to be to scale up
| over time. They're starting at $81k.
|
| I really want a modular home ala Japan in the US, but it just
| doesn't seem like this market exists yet. It's much faster and
| efficient to build modules and assemble them onsite than it is to
| build "from scratch" each time.
|
| [0]: https://buildcover.com/
| Deadsunrise wrote:
| I love the fact that they setup the house in just one day. And
| those big windows are a huge plus for a person like me.
| desireco42 wrote:
| I will not comment on the business, just the website. It is bad
| (not quite terrible). It is actually responsive, but it came from
| some cheap template.
|
| I am not sure why is that. Does agencies charge way too much for
| their work, so they didn't want to pay 150K for website, but
| spent 150 instead. There should be a room in-between for this.
| maximus-decimus wrote:
| You judge websites based on how expensive they are?
| desireco42 wrote:
| Not how expensive they are but how much budget you spend on
| making them. You have to spend money to make good website.
| maximus-decimus wrote:
| But what do you think isn't good about their website?
| synaesthesisx wrote:
| We need to be building units like this for the homeless, in lots
| with services/resources. The faster we can meet offer everyone a
| "bed", the faster we can legally ban urban camping. Encampments
| are growing out of control in SF, LA, etc and we need a housing-
| first approach.
| jonfw wrote:
| If you're building these in large quantities doing it on site
| would be way cheaper. You can achieve similar economies of
| scale, and you don't have to design the houses to be mobile and
| you don't have to actually move them
| ktzar wrote:
| There's been similar concepts in Europe for decades:
| https://www.alucasa.com/viviendas-residenciales
| sakopov wrote:
| Recent interview with the founder. [1]
|
| [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck685sVmdkk&t=2s
| jmcgough wrote:
| How does this compare to mobile homes in terms of price and use
| case? Many mobile homes are only "mobile" in the sense that it's
| delivered and installed somewhere - 90% are never moved again,
| because it's costly and complicated to do so.
|
| The modular idea is neat, but I'm not sure how practical it is,
| and there are laws in many states that prevent you from moving
| homes without a licensed professional.
| h2odragon wrote:
| Dunno if the "mobile home industry" is actually useful to
| compare against anymore; they seem to be dedicated to selling
| the cheapest possible crap as an excuse to rope people into
| horrible financial schemes. "no down payment with land" is
| pushing some deals that'd make payday lenders feel moral
| qualms.
|
| Not that mobile homes were ever a place to find quality
| construction, but now it feels like outright fraud.
| Ensorceled wrote:
| It looks like the delivery crane does the unboxing, so I would
| presume the delivery would be done by some one licensed to move
| it. I think this is also not considered mobile.
|
| Not sure how you would even have this as a "take out" option.
| dadro wrote:
| I have a 40 acre plot in Maine and ordered a "camp" hand built by
| Amish craftsmen using decent timber for 12K delivered. Granted, I
| have to build out the interior but when all is done I'll be into
| it for < 25K. https://themainelandstore.com/camps-sheds-for-sale/
| arichard123 wrote:
| I don't think it compares that well to a static caravan. The
| price here likely includes VAT (20%)
|
| https://www.abiuk.co.uk/our-collection/the-roecliffe/
| alkonaut wrote:
| Aren't caravans quite poorly insulated so if you heat it year
| round and don't have extremely mild weather like most of UK
| then you'll waste a lot of money keeping warm (or cool)? The
| attraction of a modular home to me would be that it can have
| proper construction with heavy triple glass windows and so on.
| arichard123 wrote:
| I can't tell you the specifics. I know from holidays that
| they have improved a lot. The newer ones have much better
| insulation and double glazing. Sure, they are geared towards
| a UK climate.
| leoedin wrote:
| Every static caravan I've been in has been a _horrible_
| building. The walls are paper thin, the whole thing shakes when
| you walk around, it 's poorly insulated, the furnishings are
| cheap.
|
| I'm not sure how much of that requirement comes from weight
| limits due to road transportation vs cost cutting vs target
| market, but those things are just horrible to spend time in.
| Houses need to feel solid.
| [deleted]
| vit05 wrote:
| This company is popular for being the company chosen by Elon
| Musk[1]. He's supposedly living in one in Starbase, Texas. I
| guess it's also a study to understand the dynamics of living in a
| small space as any dream of inhabiting some other planet passes
| necessarily by the adaptation of a lifetime in a tiny space.
|
| [1]https://www.teslarati.com/elon-musk-50k-house-texas-
| pictures...
| golemiprague wrote:
| There are millions in Tokyo who live in a 15sqm apartment or
| something like that, you don't need to invent anything new to
| "study" it.
| qayxc wrote:
| > I guess it's also a study to understand the dynamics of
| living in a small space
|
| How out of touch must one be to even consider this? News flash:
| the vast majority of mankind lives in what a North American
| would consider "small places" [0].
|
| Same goes for population density - North American and
| Australian urban sprawl is largely unknown in most areas of the
| world. If you want to "study the dynamics" of living closely
| together in tightly packed spaces, just move to Hong Kong or
| Singapore for a year.
|
| [0] https://specials-
| images.forbesimg.com/imageserve/5e7b2a43103...
| vit05 wrote:
| I'm talking about him. I didn't say it was a scientific study
| about the world. He, one of the richest men in the world, is
| experiencing living in a small space with houses from this
| company. This company has also demo videos about houses on
| mars.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvtJPDpAY7c
| youngtaff wrote:
| Know it's not a like-for-like comparison as the boxabl units come
| with a mini-kitchen etc.
|
| But think I'd far prefer something like the smaller units from
| Heb Homes - https://www.hebhomes.com
|
| (Pricing is public but unfortunately need to register for plans)
| HNfriend234 wrote:
| I live in So cal and this is a super good idea. What many people
| don't know is that the cities have been big advocates for
| building Accessory Dwelling Units (ADU). These are smaller homes
| that are basically built in people's backyards. It is seen as a
| way to increase housing units without doing any significant
| rezoning of traditional zoning.
|
| I was looking on google maps satellite view and noticed that the
| vast majority of homes with large backyards do not have an ADU so
| the potential here for investment is pretty significant I would
| say.
|
| We are also in a housing crisis and rents are soaring.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2021-06-30 23:02 UTC)