[HN Gopher] Starting in 2023, Windows 11 will require new laptop...
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       Starting in 2023, Windows 11 will require new laptops to have a
       front webcam
        
       Author : rolph
       Score  : 30 points
       Date   : 2021-06-29 17:18 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.windowscentral.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.windowscentral.com)
        
       | MeinBlutIstBlau wrote:
       | This just means that if these laptops are going to have Windows
       | 11, they need to have a camera. It's not that the OS will not
       | work without it. It's just MS saying, "You need a camera on your
       | laptop." It's no different than all Macbooks having a camera,
       | except Microsoft is dictating the OEM market needs to adhere to
       | that standard.
        
         | aejnsn wrote:
         | You're exactly right in your statement. But of all the
         | experiences they could control, the most important is a webcam?
         | 
         | That webcam is placed on an OS known for intrusive advertising
         | and data collection, with OEMs known for pushing pre-installed
         | software that's invasive, if not full-blown malware.
         | 
         | You're exactly right about the facts. The problem is the
         | perception of the theme here.
        
           | bluerival wrote:
           | This is most certainly a security initiative to standardise
           | biometrics (Windows Hello). Windows wants everyone to use
           | their "FaceID" because it's more secure.
        
             | Arrath wrote:
             | I'll believe that biometric security measures are more
             | secure when they are fully protected under the Fifth
             | Amendment, rather than by a few shaky court cases that
             | could be overturned.
             | 
             | https://slate.com/technology/2019/01/fifth-amendment-
             | biometr...
             | 
             | https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2019/01/14/feds
             | -...
        
           | MeinBlutIstBlau wrote:
           | I'm fairly certain that the reason for it has more to do with
           | standardizing laptops to always have webcams and that it's
           | expected now that work from home is a more commonly accepted
           | thing. Also every phone has a camera. It's not like this is a
           | new concept in hardware requirements.
           | 
           | Requiring cameras to laptops sounds like a better feature
           | than having to waste time finding out "does it have a
           | camera." Especially ensuring they have to be hi-res. Phones
           | have had cameras forever. I don't get how the expectation
           | that a laptop should not have a camera. It's not like it's
           | any more invasive than the geolocation data google siphons
           | constantly.
        
       | krylon wrote:
       | I own 7 laptops, and with the exception of a ~1995 ThinkPad, they
       | all have webcams builtin.
       | 
       | None of these will ever run Windows 11 (or any other version),
       | but of all the things I have heard so far about Windows 11, this
       | is relatively low on my outrage list. (Okay, strictly speaking,
       | the ancient ThinkPad runs Windows 95, but I don't actually use
       | it, I just keep it because I like old hardware.)
        
       | mhoad wrote:
       | WTAF? Was this supposed to be some kind of security thing?
       | 
       | This misreads the room so badly on where people are at in 2021
       | when it comes to the idea of tech companies and consumer privacy.
        
         | endemic wrote:
         | The article is light on details, but of course there's always
         | this:
         | 
         | > For those concerned with privacy, this means a trip to the
         | office supply store to grab more tape with which to cover up
         | the pesky little lenses.
        
           | lb1lf wrote:
           | -I am surprised not more vendors of laptops have done like
           | Lenovo does (at least on the X1 series) - there's a plastic
           | slider which goes over the lens, showing a bright orange dot
           | when it has disabled the camera.
           | 
           | Seems so cheap, simple and useful that there probably is a
           | patent keeping others from doing it. Sigh.
        
           | Lammy wrote:
           | Good luck with that https://old.reddit.com/r/blackmagicfucker
           | y/comments/kaxn0j/s...
           | 
           | Also good luck taping up the microphone.
        
             | xg15 wrote:
             | Even if not, if the camera is required for login/screen
             | unlock, have fun removing and reapplying that tape several
             | dozen times a day.
        
               | nailer wrote:
               | It's not. You can use a PIN or a password.
        
             | HWR_14 wrote:
             | Isn't the remote made out of IR-transparent plastic? The
             | privacy shields you tape onto a webcam should be IR-opaque.
             | (Or they should be redesigned).
             | 
             | I believe best practice to disable a microphone is
             | superglue over the membrane.
        
         | oarsinsync wrote:
         | > _This misreads the room so badly on where people are at in
         | 2021 when it comes to the idea of tech companies and consumer
         | privacy._
         | 
         | (Some) Tech people, politicians, and politicos, sure.
         | 
         | The average person still uses Facebook, Instagram, Whatsapp,
         | Twitter, Google services, and/or believes Apple's marketing on
         | respecting user privacy.
         | 
         | Also, this is 2 years out. Either there will be major changes
         | between now and then which will result in a change to this
         | decision, or there wont. I wouldn't put my money on the former.
        
           | dagw wrote:
           | I know several pretty 'average' computer users with a piece
           | of tape in front of their laptop camera.
        
           | throwntoday wrote:
           | What part of Apple's privacy policy is unbelievable?
        
         | winthrowe wrote:
         | This looks like part of their push to passwordless. Decent
         | camera plus TPM means that FaceID style unphishable FIDO2
         | credentials can become default moving forward.
        
           | LorenPechtel wrote:
           | And how do you handle letting someone else use your machine?
        
             | contravariant wrote:
             | That's not really the best argument in favor of passwords.
        
             | petree wrote:
             | You install Linux and tell Microsoft to fuck off with their
             | stupid ideas.
        
           | frombody wrote:
           | It also means that you can't use computers running Windows 11
           | inside secure areas.
        
             | oarsinsync wrote:
             | > _It also means that you can 't use computers running
             | Windows 11 inside secure areas._
             | 
             | It means you can't use computers running _retail editions_
             | of Windows 11 inside secure areas.
             | 
             | These kinds of requirements will absolutely not be
             | mandatory under enterprise / volume licensing.
        
       | s1artibartfast wrote:
       | Reporting seems hyperbolic. What happens if your hardware doesn't
       | have a camera? OS won't load or boot?
        
         | anotherman554 wrote:
         | Presumably it's saying OEMs will not be allowed to sell laptops
         | with copies of windows preinstalled unless the laptop has a
         | camera.
        
       | rvz wrote:
       | Oh dear.
       | 
       | On top of that, the new Windows 11 OEM laptops will probably come
       | with Windows 11 Home pre-installed and requires a Microsoft
       | Account, which not only I warned against two years ago [0], but
       | is an instant no deal.
       | 
       | Comes to no surprise as to how Microsoft really wants to collect
       | everything about you. Even if it you get a laptop with a Pro
       | version installed, they will still make it harder for you to
       | avoid a Microsoft account.
       | 
       | [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21137699
        
       | squarefoot wrote:
       | Thank you, Microsoft! Thousands, potentially millions, of users
       | will be motivated to migrate to other OSes, also thanks to
       | Windows 11 insane hardware requirements they will find tons of
       | essentially free hardware that will run their new OS with no
       | issues.
        
         | kungito wrote:
         | Sometimes I laugh at arguments like this, sometimes I get
         | pissed of. You are seriously disconnected from reality if you
         | think this will change anything except all laptops having a
         | front webcam. I haven't seen one without it ever anyways
        
           | squarefoot wrote:
           | There are some realities I may have been connected in the
           | past, in which a laptop with a camera cannot enter if it is
           | yours, and won't have a camera at all if it's from the
           | employer.
           | 
           | The point however was Microsoft imposing unnecessary hardware
           | requirements, and my comment stands since from a Linux (BSD,
           | whatever) point of view, lots of Windows users ditching their
           | perfectly good few years old PC means a huge load of good
           | hardware to be taken almost for free since our demand would
           | never match the huge offer.
           | 
           | Regarding messing with hardware requirements, I seem to
           | recall Microsoft did a similar thing when they dictated that
           | netbooks up to a certain size could not have more than this
           | CPU and that amount of RAM to be eligible for receiving
           | discounted OEM XP copies; it was called ULCPC or something
           | like that. In that case they didn't set the minimum bar, but
           | the maximum one. Which of course also produced tons of
           | garbage since netbooks too slow or non upgradeable over 1 Gig
           | RAM became hard to use with Linux too.
        
           | hans-moleman wrote:
           | This website is an echo chamber many times more niche than
           | other social websites. It's mainly tech nerds with very
           | similar beliefs and backgrounds. Opinons here, as with most
           | websites, should be taken with a grain of salt.
        
         | _-david-_ wrote:
         | What laptop doesn't have a front webcam especially one that is
         | at least 720p (I assume that is what is considered hd)? You can
         | buy a $150 laptop and it likely would work.
        
           | dagw wrote:
           | Some so called gaming laptops don't. The Asus G14 for example
           | was a series of extremely popular and well reviewed laptops
           | without a front webcam. They where even quite popular with
           | developers since they offered class leading CPU and GPU
           | performance in a relatively lightweight package.
        
             | _-david-_ wrote:
             | Thanks. I didn't realize that. I assumed with the size of
             | gaming laptops they would all have webcams.
        
               | dagw wrote:
               | Dell also at least used to offer some of their Latitude
               | laptops without webcams, probably targeting people and
               | industries working in situations where cameras in certain
               | areas where forbidden.
        
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       (page generated 2021-06-29 23:02 UTC)