[HN Gopher] My approach to taking notes in meetings
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       My approach to taking notes in meetings
        
       Author : tylertreat
       Score  : 105 points
       Date   : 2021-06-28 17:01 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.witful.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.witful.com)
        
       | imvetri wrote:
       | Skip the meeting saying you have another meeting to attend to,
       | 
       | later ask for "Action Items" "Meeting notes".
        
       | leephillips wrote:
       | Some of these techniques are impressive, but they don't work for
       | me. My notes take the form of drawings: flowers, aliens, bugs,
       | geometric diagrams--whatever makes it look like I'm paying
       | attention and prevents my forehead from violently impacting the
       | table.
        
       | irrational wrote:
       | I cannot multitask. At all. Listening and writing are two
       | different tasks and I cannot do both at the same time. If you
       | ever see me writing in a meeting you can know 100% that I am not
       | able to listen to anything being said while I am writing. I am
       | amazed by people who seemingly can both write and listen at the
       | same time.
        
         | ultra_nick wrote:
         | I don't understand. Do you have to look at the keyboard to
         | type?
         | 
         | Notes feel as natural to me as talking.
        
           | irrational wrote:
           | No. But talking and typing are two different tasks. I can't
           | multitask. That includes typing and talking, typing and
           | listening, etc.
        
           | puchatek wrote:
           | What about talking to a person about the previous topic while
           | listening to another person talk about the current?
        
         | 123pie123 wrote:
         | I'm exactly the same
         | 
         | I either need to concentrate on the discussions or I
         | concentrate on writing notes. If I try to do both at the same
         | time I fail at both - badly.
         | 
         | I either record the meetings, ask a collegue to help take high
         | level notes - then immediatly after the meeting put more detail
         | in them from memory - then circulate (asap) the actions for
         | feedback/ comments etc..
         | 
         | failing that, I will stop the meeting to write stuff down -
         | ideally sharing the whiteboard, and this process showing
         | everyone the degree of my (seriously) bad spelling, bad grammar
         | and the amazing ability to completely miss multiple words out
         | (or reverse the word order)
        
       | ketzo wrote:
       | _> The way I would capture an action item during a meeting would
       | be to underline (if handwritten) or bold (if typed) the part in
       | the note and commit it to memory. Important things would always
       | get remembered by the very nature of being important, but the
       | slightly-less-important-but-still-valuable items would often slip
       | my mind.
       | 
       | > This was the difference between being good and great at my job.
       | It's the stuff that, when missed, no one really notices, but when
       | you're on top of it, people think you're superhuman._
       | 
       | Before starting work at a large company, I would have scoffed at
       | the idea that "remembering little stuff" could ever be
       | "superhuman."
       | 
       | Now? I'm right there with the author. The people I work with who
       | consistently come to meetings with updates like "oh, and I took
       | care of <small-but-important thing>" are my heroes.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | mgadams3 wrote:
       | IMO it's generally more of a tooling problem than a methodology
       | problem... like trying to build a skyscraper without power tools.
       | 
       | The main challenge with taking notes during meetings is that the
       | tools use were designed for drafting in a non-linear environment.
       | But notes in meetings are directly related to the content of what
       | is being said at a specific moment in time, and the text-only
       | notes usually fail to capture the full essence compared to
       | watching that part of the video.
       | 
       | When building my last start-up, an online school on Zoom, we
       | recorded every lecture so our students could go back and review
       | the content during the working sessions. But they found it hard
       | to correlate their Google Doc notes with the moment in the
       | recording they wanted to go back and watch. But since we pulled
       | over the Zoom chat log with timestamps back to moments in the
       | recording, they started taking notes there so they could keep
       | track of the part they knew they wanted to watch later or
       | reference.
       | 
       | Long story short, when the online school got acquired I started
       | my current start-up https://grain.co to turn that insight into
       | software anyone could use to better capture and share knowledge
       | during any kind of meeting.
        
       | javier10e6 wrote:
       | Meetings: The activity of people hearing themselves talk. I think
       | I stumbled here or in lobsters with this site:
       | https://www.justingarrison.com/blog/2021-03-15-the-document-...
       | Very apropos to the effectiveness of meetings and of course ,note
       | taking towards creating long term value.
        
       | cborenstein wrote:
       | I've found that in meetings, I mostly just need short quick
       | notes. I don't need entire documents and structure. Instead, I
       | jot down a few of the most important key ideas and action items.
       | After the meeting, I add my action items into my todo list.
       | 
       | Working on bytebase.io - the fastest notepad for engineers. With
       | Bytebase you can jump into a timestamped meeting note in one
       | keystroke and bucketize individual items afterwards.
       | 
       | https://intercom.help/bytebase/en/articles/4587207-meeting-n...
        
       | svilen_dobrev wrote:
       | dear Witful:
       | 
       | Dropping user tags and only having essentially 2 hardcoded types
       | of auto-tags - timestamp + people ?
       | 
       | mmmmh. And Where to put the yellow/pink/.. sticky-notes?
       | 
       | Tagging/categorisation is a slow postprocessing - weekly,
       | monthly, yearly. i keep reorganizing my mails from last 25 years.
       | including pruning. Same for my pictures. Most stay as they were,
       | but some change coordinates sometimes. As i may have changed.
       | 
       | yeah, one may say meetings and notes usualy don't last years..
       | except when they do because are actualy important. Should i
       | invent DIY tags in title?
        
       | dougmwne wrote:
       | For me, I really like Zoom recording paired with the automatic
       | transcripts. The transcripts help me to find the section of the
       | video I need to review. I wish there was a feature to tie your
       | typed notes into the video timecodes so by clicking on a note I
       | had made, I could jump to the point in the meeting where I had
       | made the note.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | r00fus wrote:
         | Great idea. I would use this but we can't record all zoom
         | calls. Furthermore sometimes we are required to use other conf
         | tools.
        
         | akio wrote:
         | Grain[0] is what you're looking for. (Disclaimer: I work at
         | Grain.)
         | 
         | It lets you take notes during your meeting that are timestamped
         | to a recording and transcript.
         | 
         | It also lets you share clips from your meeting both after and
         | live during the meeting. It indexes your transcripts to make
         | your meetings searchable later, and does a lot of other things
         | to maximize the value you extract from meetings.
         | 
         | [0] https://grain.co
        
           | dougmwne wrote:
           | That's awesome, I'll check it out. Thanks!
        
         | cyberge99 wrote:
         | Descript does this well. It transcribes a video file and you
         | can click around in the notes window and it jumps to that
         | position in the video. Very handy tool/service. Free for the
         | first fews hours per month(10 maybe), then paid.
        
           | dougmwne wrote:
           | I would want something that lets me take notes on the meeting
           | live, then sync them up with the video and transcript after
           | the fact.
        
       | echelon wrote:
       | Here's my shorthand. Google docs. Nested by topic, use ldaps, use
       | "AI (action item)" to assign tasks.                 ldap1: This
       | thing              * ldap2: No that thing              * ldap3:
       | Because of this reason              * AI(ldap1): Fix that thing
       | ldap3: What about X?              * ldap1: I think X is at risk
       | * ldap2: We have an alternative from [this vendor](link)
       | ...              * AI(unassigned): Investigate vendor alternative
       | to fix X
       | 
       | It's quick and easy to edit/share.
       | 
       | Google Docs creates TODOs automatically around "AI(ldap)" and
       | correctly attributes them.
       | 
       | If you're in a multi-stakeholder meeting, you can present the
       | notes and even have multiple people backfilling with links,
       | screenshots, etc.
        
         | pdmccormick wrote:
         | What does "ldap" mean in this context?
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | echelon wrote:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightweight_Directory_Access_P.
           | ..
           | 
           | In the context I used it, ldap = username
           | 
           | Essentially all employees have a unique account that is used
           | for email, unix sysadmin, etc., and this is accomplished via
           | LDAP. You can sync permissions, auth, and more between
           | various systems if they all speak the same language.
           | 
           | To use our hacker news usernames, yours would be
           | "pdmccormick" and mine would be "echelon". Companies may
           | choose to make these based on personal names, but it's not
           | required.
        
             | dsr_ wrote:
             | Oh, you mean
             | 
             | usernames
             | 
             | or
             | 
             | GECOS
             | 
             | or
             | 
             | handles
             | 
             | I've never referred to names as ldaps and I would find it
             | horribly confusing to do so...
        
               | throwaways885 wrote:
               | I've only ever heard the term ldap from Googlers, to
               | mean, "username".
        
             | rbonvall wrote:
             | It's the first time I see usernames referred to as "ldaps".
             | Learning stuff like this is why Hacker News is my favorite
             | HTTP :o)
        
       | linker3000 wrote:
       | I've used this method since the early 1990s:
       | 
       | 1) Use no tech.
       | 
       | 2) Cornell-inspired note-taking paper with topics in the left
       | margin and speaker names/notes/sub-topics in the main body.
       | There's room for mind maps if you wish.
       | 
       | 3) Actions go in the bottom field so they are easy to find later
       | and mark off when done. If you need to reference something in the
       | body notes for follow-up or action (because you don't have time
       | to write something at the bottom of the page), put an A in a
       | circle next to the relevant sentence.
       | 
       | 4) Meeting notes are stapled together and filed in chronological
       | order in a ring binder, divided by working group/meeting name or
       | topic. You can then remove a bunch of notes from previous
       | meetings to take into the current one for reference.
       | 
       | Here's a Word doc of my blank Cornell-type paper:
       | 
       | https://github.com/linker3000/Cornell
        
         | hammock wrote:
         | This approach is brilliant. Thank you for sharing.
        
       | mgbmtl wrote:
       | I often have (virtual) meetings with clients, and there may be
       | 3-5 people of their team on the call, and I might have a
       | colleague also there.
       | 
       | To make sure meetings aren't a waste of time, each of our clients
       | has a Gitlab space on our self-hosted Gitlab, and while screen-
       | sharing, I open their Board, which is in a sense the meeting
       | agenda.
       | 
       | Then I open each issue, and I take notes while they are talking.
       | If the discussion is too quick, I stop folks and tell them "one
       | second, we should write this down, it's important but I'll
       | forget". And before moving to the next topic, I ask every-one to
       | validate.
       | 
       | Towards the end of the meeting (usually 30-45 mins), we then go
       | back to the board, and re-prioritize if needed.
       | 
       | In parallel, I have a paper todo list, where I write down the
       | issue numbers that I really need to prioritize, or other notes
       | that the client should not see.
       | 
       | Obviously this does not work for all types of meetings, but we
       | also do this for our internal company meetings and it's fairly
       | efficient. In the past I would only use paper, but I ended up
       | with lots of paper that I lost track of.
        
         | alohaandmahalo wrote:
         | Love this approach to using GitLab to incorporate intentional
         | documentation in sync meetings. I work at GitLab, and we use
         | the platform to collaborate, but I've not used it as described
         | here. We'll have to give it a try!
        
       | logicalmonster wrote:
       | I think every brain might be wired differently and a different
       | approach might work better for some people.
       | 
       | But if I'm trying to make notes in a meeting, I can't listen to a
       | speaker argue some nuanced point in a meeting while furiously
       | trying to jot things down.
       | 
       | An approach that works for me is to have the meeting and try and
       | pay undivided attention to it, then have 5-10 uninterrupted
       | minutes at the end while everything is in short term memory to
       | summarize it. If somehow I don't remember a point, it's usually
       | not important enough to write down.
       | 
       | I'd say if 2 people in a meeting take that approach and and
       | consolidate their notes at the end, you're going to get a
       | complete picture of what just happened.
        
         | warkdarrior wrote:
         | One thing to consider is that taking notes in a meeting is not
         | about recording all information that is communicated. The key
         | is to summarize the high-level point ("we cannot take approach
         | X"), who stated it ("according to Bob"), and why ("because X
         | will slow down Y"). This gives you sufficient info to
         | reconstruct the main message and to know who to ask for more
         | detail if needed.
        
           | bluGill wrote:
           | I tell myself that, but in truth the main value in taking
           | notes is it forces me to pay attention. When I'm not
           | daydreaming about how I would make the last point in a
           | different way (thus missing the current one), or thinking
           | about whatever project I'm doing at home I get a lot more out
           | of the talk.
           | 
           | I sometimes pretend I'm translating to Spanish (I don't know
           | near enough Spanish to do this, but in my mind it is okay to
           | make the English words with a Spanish ending and not worry if
           | anyone else would understand). this doesn't work as well, but
           | it still keeps my mind on listening and so I get more out of
           | it.
        
             | puchatek wrote:
             | Muy cleverito
        
         | joshuamorton wrote:
         | I think there's a bit more to it than this: note taking is more
         | than just writing stuff down, its engaged with the process of
         | having a well run meeting.
         | 
         | First, figure out the goal of your meeting: is it to share
         | information (a standup, all-hands, etc.), come to a technical
         | decision/consensus, something else? I'll focus on the second.
         | 
         | Your goal is to come to a decision, or resolve an open
         | question. You have a stakeholder presumably, as well as some
         | people with insight/opinions. You should define a few roles:
         | meeting runner, note taker, and stakeholder. These can often be
         | the same person, but are also often different people. The
         | meeting runner does just that, they manage time, ensure people
         | have a chance to speak, and generally referee and make sure
         | things get done. The note taker takes notes, not an exact
         | transcription, but detailed, attributed to speakers, etc. The
         | stakeholder is somewhat responsible for the outcome, makes sure
         | that they are happy with the result and manages AIs.
         | 
         | Note that these roles can't belong to any of the people who are
         | presenting/arguing/disagreeing. Also, in practice, they can't
         | belong to the least senior people in the room. Those people are
         | probably going to be more actively involved in the meeting,
         | while the people refereeing can sit back, ask questions and
         | guide the discussion, with ample time to digest and take notes.
         | 
         | As someone who has at various points been both the active
         | participant and the various stakeholder/notetaker/ref, it's a
         | bad time if you have to do both. Notetaking takes up too much
         | mental energy. I can't actively answer questions while taking
         | notes. I can often ask them, if something isn't clear while I'm
         | taking notes, it's sometimes extra obvious, so I can chime in
         | with a question or a brief clarification, but anything more
         | than that and you're likely to miss something.
         | 
         | This also, with the timekeeping, means that if the notetaker
         | misses something, you already have the broad structure of the
         | meeting written down, so others can chime in with anything
         | forgotten, or add other follow-ups and action items. Then, you
         | can email the whole summary out, and anyone who missed the
         | meeting can see what was discussed, how the decision was
         | reached, and follow-ups, and that's useful in case not all
         | experts were able to be in the room, or as a reference for the
         | future.
        
       | counternotions wrote:
       | The country where I'm from, the de facto corporate culture trains
       | the junior employees to furiously scribble down notes as a
       | manager/executive is speaking, as a formality and sign of
       | respect. How much these notes are legible and useful will vary
       | widely, I've seen some laughable ones, but it is a positive
       | social tool to enforce the act of listening.
        
         | sporedro wrote:
         | It's funny but I find when trying to scribble everything said
         | down I'm not actively listening and comprehending anything
         | that's being said just trying to copy words down.
         | 
         | I've found listening and jotting down short concise notes every
         | now and than about something important is the best.
        
         | canadianwriter wrote:
         | Is it really listening though? Of the three tested, verbatim
         | was the worst in this test:
         | https://www.iiste.org/Journals/index.php/JEP/article/viewFil...
         | 
         | There are others you can look up. Verbatim note taking means
         | you are hearing the words but spending your time focusing on
         | copying them rather than distilling/understanding them or
         | putting them in context. Letting your brain process the
         | information is more effective than trying to memorize the
         | information.
        
         | Kluny wrote:
         | That's basically what I do in my lectures at uni. The notes are
         | totally worthless after the lecture, but it does keep me
         | engaged and off hackernews during class.
        
         | chishaku wrote:
         | listening != hearing + transcribing
        
         | dominotw wrote:
         | Reminds of " kim jong il looking at things" pictures where
         | whole bunch of minions are jotting down his "on the spot
         | guidance". They even have placards marking the places where
         | such guidance was received and at what date.
        
         | ryandrake wrote:
         | I worked at one of these companies, as one of the scribblers,
         | and it felt bizarre. _Multiple_ people sitting in the meeting,
         | furiously writing down every word spoken by the Great Senior
         | Manager. It felt like I was one of those North Korean guys you
         | see in those pictures, following Dear Leader around writing
         | down all his words. The rationale we were all given was that it
         | is very important to capture every word, because the execs
         | remember what they said and asked for. If you forget to
         | implement something that they mentioned very briefly or off-
         | hand, they 'll remember it and there will be trouble...
        
           | macintux wrote:
           | Reminds me of the story that engineers would attend Steve
           | Jobs public presentations (during his first stint at Apple)
           | to find out what they needed to work on, because occasionally
           | he would "announce" something that heretofore had existed
           | only in his head.
        
       | grimborg wrote:
       | I take all my meeting notes on Agenda ( https://agenda.com/ ). It
       | links the notes to the calendar events.
        
       | zerop wrote:
       | I am looking at this witful product UI and I wonder what stops MS
       | to make interfaces like this in office products. Their UX is so
       | awful in most of products. They have huge customer base, data and
       | products to create great experience. Then, why?
        
         | robertkluin wrote:
         | I work on Witful. We spend a lot of time and effort keeping the
         | UI clean and refined; to the point that we have accidentally
         | over-simplified in a few key spots. The result is that we've
         | got a ton of hidden functionality. Things like collated notes
         | by domain or capturing "questions" (simply add `??` to a
         | sentence to mark it as a question) are tricky to find. I think
         | MS has just optimized for making everything "obvious" by adding
         | a button for everything to their menu bars.
        
       | r00fus wrote:
       | I do something similar to the hybrid approach.
       | 
       | Instead of simply noting concerns, I ask if there is an
       | actionable item, then note the action.
       | 
       | > CL: I don't think Azure AD is the right choice for end user
       | auth
       | 
       | would become
       | 
       | > CL raised concern about Azure AD option, @RF to revisit
       | specific concerns with stakeholders by EOD tomorrow.
       | 
       | (the action would be highlighted for followup task assignment as
       | appropriate).
       | 
       | Note: this approach is more appropriate for small-runway
       | implementation projects with decision makers (or empowered
       | individuals) attending, where decisions need to be made quickly
       | or escalated.
        
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       (page generated 2021-06-29 23:01 UTC)