[HN Gopher] Sriracha hit revenue of $150M a year with no sales t...
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Sriracha hit revenue of $150M a year with no sales team or ad spend
Author : dsr12
Score : 722 points
Date : 2021-06-28 05:38 UTC (17 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (twitter.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (twitter.com)
| mattwad wrote:
| It's great on Asian cuisine, but I can't stand when I ask for hot
| sauce at a Mexican restaurant and they come out with this Asian-
| style sauce. It's not spicy at all, rather sweet.
| forgingahead wrote:
| "No sales team" is a ridiculous summary. The full quote:
|
| "No sales team (Tran has mostly maintained the same 10
| distributors and wholesale pricing from the 80s)"
|
| "10 distributors" is the sales team. Just because the
| distributors (who are large and who have probably hundreds if not
| thousands of their own sales staff) are doing the sales doesn't
| mean there isn't the process of a human being either calling or
| visiting stores to get them to buy the product. In other words,
| sales.
|
| Getting a product to market is hard, and a large part of that
| difficulty is DISTRIBUTION. If a company can find some good
| partners like distributors to handle that, good for them, but
| nobody can make any amount of meaningful revenue without sales,
| despite fake exhortations to the contrary.
| notahacker wrote:
| Yesh "no sales team" always makes me laugh when it turns out to
| actually mean "ten companies specialised in selling to retail
| outlets do our sales" (or in other cases "we give our sales
| team a different job title"). Channel sales is still sales.
| turkeywelder wrote:
| If anyone's in the sauce shipping game, try and get the Huy Fong
| one distributed in the UK. The market here is dominated by
| "flying goose" sriracha which is good, but not the same as the
| Huy Fong and there's a fair market for it here I think.
| Tade0 wrote:
| I first heard about Sriracha years ago through Matthew Inman,
| a.k.a. The Oatmeal. Then Exploding Kittens happened and while (to
| my knowledge) it doesn't feature the condiment, I'm sure many
| people checked out the rest of the artist's work.
|
| Now that Sriracha made its way to Poland I finally managed to get
| a taste.
|
| It's spicy enough to not be offensive to the average consumer,
| but I think The Oatmeal oversold it on its palate-burning
| capabilities.
| asah wrote:
| Haha, tastes have changed since the Oatmeal cartoon - at the
| time, it was one of the hottest sauces available in much of the
| US.
| thehappypm wrote:
| It's pretty hot IMO. I've put too much into many a bowl of Pho
| and suffered the consequences. I'm not a spice freak, more of a
| medium heat tolerance.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| I agree. It isn't that hot, but it is a lot hotter than many.
|
| Personally, I like hot that tastes good. Many hot sauces are
| pure hot. They taste like crap; only selling Scoville. I like
| habanero, because it has decent (and unique) flavor. I think
| that they may have developed a less hot variation, because I'm
| seeing a lot of habanero-based stuff in regular consumer space.
| quesera wrote:
| I agree. I love Huy Fong Sriracha, and I love Marie Sharp's
| carrot/lime-based Habanero sauce (I prefer the green "Mild"
| bottle for flavor-heat balance -- it's still quite hot to my
| (fairly acclimated, but not insane) palate!)
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > I think that they may have developed a less hot variation,
| because I'm seeing a lot more habanero-based stuff in regular
| consumer space.
|
| You can vary the heat by how much rib you keep in, without
| effecting other flavor elements notably (the heat is mostly
| in the rib, the rest of the flavor is mostly in the flesh),
| and, because flavor is often nonlinear and affected by what
| else is included, you can also often reduce how much of the
| main pepper you use to vary heat while retaining other
| flavors. Or, if you are trading on the name and not the
| actual flavor, you can just ise less of the named pepper and
| still trade on the name, which is fairly common.
| Tade0 wrote:
| I'm more of an allyl isothiocyanate person and I agree -
| hotness in and of itself isn't particularly attractive. I
| heard some people actually feel a more _cold_ sensation from
| capsaicin which may explain why they 're so fond of sauces
| which are essentially pepper spray.
|
| I've only ever had a similar sensation drinking vodka - and
| rarely at that, which was an interesting window to how severe
| alcoholism must feel.
| pizza wrote:
| Try akabanga (Rwandan hot sauce). Comes in little eyedropper
| bottles, 150000+ scovilles, plus it's delicious and also
| since it's an oil-based sauce the heat doesn't linger that
| long in your mouth.
| dancemethis wrote:
| All thanks to Filthy Frank.
| blobbers wrote:
| Product trumps marketing.
|
| Justice in the hot sauce industry!
| parineum wrote:
| Sriracha is really interesting to me. I don't know when exactly
| it became what it is today but I remember always getting it at
| the takeout Chinese places in the late 90s, referring to it as
| rooster sauce (occasionally cock sauce, for those excessively
| juvenile times).
|
| Everyone I knew already knew what it was and nearly everyone
| liked it but, for reasons completely unknown to me, one day it
| made it's way out of those cheap Chinese restaurants and into
| the mainstream. It's still a mystery to me.
|
| The only explanation I really have is that I grew up in the LA
| metro area and, I'm pretty sure, it's manufactured there.
| Perhaps it was ubiquitous locally and the popularity has to do
| with them expanding their footprint.
| tomnipotent wrote:
| > I grew up in the LA metro area
|
| I moved to LA from Seattle in 2001, and Sriracha was
| everywhere and in every manner of restaurant. No one I knew
| from the Pacific Northwest seemed to have heard of it, but
| twenty years later they certainly have.
|
| > it's manufactured there
|
| It is, and the factory was even forced to close for a little
| bit in 2014 due to "air quality" concerns. Was a real hoot to
| watch everyone scramble to buy a few bottles in case they
| didn't re-open quickly.
| bobsil1 wrote:
| I would totally be a hot sauce prepper.
| inafewwords wrote:
| Likely had to do with the size of their manufacturing getting
| huge. Make sauce seasonally and then find places to put it.
| Since they sell it to distributors, those distributors
| suddenly had extra product to unload.
|
| For awhile during its rise in popularity rooster sauce
| bottles could only be bought from Asian restaurants in my
| area and not regular grocery stores
| parineum wrote:
| >For awhile during its rise in popularity rooster sauce
| bottles could only be bought from Asian restaurants in my
| area and not regular grocery stores
|
| I knew people who stole it from restaurants because that's
| the only place they could find it (and not for sale). It
| was probably available in Asian markets but a bunch of high
| school kids wouldn't have known that.
|
| It really is a marvel of word of mouth but it took decades
| for what I have to imagine would have taken much less time
| without sacrificing the quality of the product had they
| made an effort to spread the word. It just seems like they
| didn't want to but then I find it strange that they
| expanded manufacturing so much. That seems at odds.
| pessimizer wrote:
| It got caught in a hipster trend wave about ten years ago,
| and it snowballed as other products tried to associate
| themselves with it by marketing sriracha-flavored versions.
| After that, it was in recipe books. There was not only no
| real reason for them to spend money on marketing, they
| probably made money from licensing their bottle in other
| people's advertisements.
| jollybean wrote:
| There's no reason to believe they have the best product.
|
| They're an established brand that has created channel dominance
| and some kind of consumer expectations.
|
| Basically, they've worked the channels relentlessly and
| consistently for decades.
|
| RedBull could have spent $0 on normal ads we understand them
| and probably be in the same position they are. The pricing
| power they have is just incredible.
| diplodocusaur wrote:
| Let's not ignore the addictive potential
|
| https://helix.northwestern.edu/blog/2014/07/your-brain-capsa...
|
| Not sure how well established the research on it is.
|
| And there's also sugar.
| watertom wrote:
| Of course it's impossible to know what their sales would look
| like if they had a sales team, and tons of money spent on ads.
| 2X, 5X, 10X, 20X?
|
| As long as the founders and investors, are happy with their
| current sales numbers.
| 411111111111111 wrote:
| A reduction is also possible, because currently it's profiting
| from word of mouth marketing which is increased by the
| psychological effect of it being a "secret tip that few know".
|
| I don't think marketing budgets will significantly improve
| sales on saturated markets like sauces. Especially if it's
| currently an unknown producer.
|
| That's probably going to change once their name is established
| however.
| asah wrote:
| Example: beyond meat is only 12 years old.
|
| That said, I'm not sure sales would be much higher, so much as
| having achieved them sooner.
| srmarm wrote:
| Yeah, for such a globally known brand that is so widely
| available and used PS150m seems like quite a small sales
| figure.
|
| Of course as a company with such humble beginnings and simple
| structure it's a great figure.
| thehappypm wrote:
| Well, it's hard to say. McCormick's (who own a ton of sauces,
| like Frank's RedHot and Cholula) has a revenue of ~$6B. If
| Sriracha was the cornerstone of a more traditional condiment
| company, perhaps they could grow through marketing, and M&A to
| about that size.
| gbtw wrote:
| I wish they used a more hygienic bottle, the thing always leaks
| its disgusting.
| 11235813213455 wrote:
| and more importantly, it's plastics. We should all avoid
| plastics as much as possible nowadays (e.g. shower soap plastic
| bottles - soap bars)
| _ph_ wrote:
| Yes, someone should make a glass squeezing bottle :)
| Considering one bottle usually lasts a long time, I can live
| with plastic much more than for many other things which you
| use up way faster. At least the bottle is large and robust
| enough that it gets recycled as a whole and less likely to
| end up as micro plastic.
| diplodocusaur wrote:
| > Yes, someone should make a glass squeezing bottle :)
|
| I don't see how a glass (or alternative material) syringe /
| extruder wouldn't be a reusable alternative. Squeezing-
| bottle is an unnecessary assumption.
| busymom0 wrote:
| > Considering one bottle usually lasts a long time
|
| Really? I go through the bottle once every 1-1.5 weeks. But
| I do use it a ton.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| They seem to have bottle sizes from 9 oz to 8.5lb, so,
| you know, "one bottle" may be a somewhat ambiguous unit
| of measure.
| _ph_ wrote:
| For me, a bottle lasts several months.
| 11235813213455 wrote:
| > "recycling": plastic recycling is no magic, in the best
| case, in specialized plants, it'll still use a lot of
| energy, resources (water), emit gases and waste, and use
| polluting transports. In worst case it goes in landfills,
| and microplastics issue like you said https://www.breakfree
| fromplastic.org/2018/08/20/recyclable-i.... So the best is
| to reduce our consumption/demand of plastics
|
| > "Last a long time" for its single use (that bottle can't
| easily be reused), is relative, and multiplied by the
| number of sales, it looks terrible
|
| You can always buy chilli peppers, and more raw
| ingredients, in environmental-friendly wrapping, reusable
| wrappings or no wrapping at all (works for
| fruits/vegetables)
|
| Glass isn't recycled efficiently as well, what I'm more
| trying to say is we can simply adapt our lifestyle, instead
| of buying processed products like these, or say soda
| bottles, let's rather get more raw ingredients, with much
| better nutritional and health values, for us and the planet
| _ph_ wrote:
| Yes, I also think that we should try to use less plastic.
| A bottle or two per year isn't going to win the battle
| though. I am much more concerned about other disposal
| staff which we use daily. Starting with bottled water -
| which I try to use as little as possible. But there
| reused (not recycled) glass bottles are the way to go,
| unfortunately they are less common than disposable
| plastic bottles. At least here in Germany there is a 20ct
| deposit per bottle which you get back if you return it to
| the shop. So it is less likely to end up in nature.
|
| However suggesting to replace the ready made sauce with a
| homemade one is likely to create more waste. As I would
| have to go (drive) out to get the ingredients, which
| probably would be packed individually. I am cooking
| frequently enough and quite like it, but it is horrible
| how much waste home-cooking generates.
| 11235813213455 wrote:
| Yea, I didn't suggest to recreate the exact sauce, just
| picking a few useful ingredients, like chili peppers
| (It's really not worth adding salt and sugar like it
| seems to have). In my case, shopping is done with my
| bike, and fruit peels and seeds will go in my city
| compost or in the ground, I also collect fruit/vegetables
| wastes from markets
| quesera wrote:
| The secret is to gently tap down the quantity of product from
| the neck of the bottle before closing. Let air replace the
| clogged nozzle to break the tension and let the remainder drip
| down into the mass of the bottle. Be careful not to spray
| product upward!
|
| If you're feeling fancy, you can also rinse the green nipple
| with water (after clearing of product). I do this periodically
| (every week or two). I might be a bit neurotic, but it works
| for me. This has alleviated all of the Sriracha leakage issues
| in my house.
| auiya wrote:
| Not to mention it requires a cold-fill method of production.
| For acidified foods this is mostly okay, but hot-fill is the
| preferred method for keeping the bad stuff at bay and reducing
| the need for preservatives.
| timdaub wrote:
| Oh man. I'm so passionate about also building a product that is
| so good, they can't ignore you.
| failwhaleshark wrote:
| Goddamn right. The cool magic is the different in the retail
| cost compared to the undeniable awesome experienced by people
| other than yourself. Make that difference as wide as possible
| and people will beat down your door for more.
|
| These days for food products, it seems damn important to have
| pricing either go insanely-low for bulk/budget (dollar store)
| or moderately-high for ultra-premium (WF, Costco, Sams).
| bhy wrote:
| This reminds me a Chinese chili sauce brand called Lao Gan Ma.
| [1] The founder is a woman, who started the business as a road
| side shop selling hand made chili sauce. Now it sales more than
| half a billion dollars per year.
|
| They do not run advertisement too. The founder also insisted on
| some distinguished principles such as not taking any debt, not
| own supplier money, and not getting listed in stock market.
|
| The sauce is often named as a necessity for Chinese studying or
| working aboard. You can simply mix it with rice or noddles and
| have a delicious meal.
|
| If you like spicy Chinese food, you should give it a try.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lao_Gan_Ma
| dmoy wrote:
| Haa, I eat this stuff almost daily. I have four jars of it in
| my fridge. It's awesome.
|
| I don't know if I'd classify it as spicy, though my taste buds
| may also just be very dead.
| lazerpants wrote:
| Funny enough, I can't stand Lao Gan Ma, there's a subtle taste
| to it that I find gross. I can't taste that flavor every time I
| use it, but if if I put it on dumplings it's there. However, I
| love some of the alternative versions. The best article I've
| seen on alternatives is below. I love Chile Crunch, I eat it on
| everything, it's a mash up of Asian and Mexican styles.
|
| https://www.epicurious.com/ingredients/the-best-chile-crisp-...
| arugulum wrote:
| I love Lao Gan Ma, but was devastated to learn that it has a
| non-trivial amount of trans fats in it (it's right on the
| nutrition label). Now I need to find an alternative.
| noodle wrote:
| I'm a pretty big fan of Boon chili oil. It's similar but not
| the same, and comparatively much healthier.
| failwhaleshark wrote:
| Misleading title.
|
| The best consumer products sell themselves with network effects
| of word-of-mouth. It can be very slow or very fast.
|
| If you wanted to launch a new sauce, I would give difficult-to-
| open-completely bottles to restaurants in major cities and say
| "We're trialing a new sauce that's ready for market. And we'd
| like to trial it exclusively at your [appropriately trendy for
| demographic] restaurant in XYZ, WQ. Can we ship it to the
| restaurant's address?"
| newguy886 wrote:
| This is exactly the reason why I buy only his sirracha source.
| This guy got balls.
| verytrivial wrote:
| I am a hot sauce tragic with more than a dozen bottles of various
| concoctions at my disposal. But confess to putting Sriracha on at
| least half of the things I think need some pep. All hail
| Sriracha!
|
| (My second place is Blair's Ultra Death which is amazing. I dole
| it out in pea-sized portion. I bought that bottle in .. oh my God
| ... 2014!!! Don't tell my mom.)
| freddie_mercury wrote:
| I live in SE Asia and I always have to roll my eyes when
| Americans ask for "real" sriracha. As if it were invented in the
| 1970s in California and the 100 year old Thai brand on the table
| is the cheap knock off of American culinary genius....
| toolslive wrote:
| They (Americans) do that all over the world. Examples I can
| think of from the top of my head as a EU citizen:
| - pizza pepperoni (Italy) - mayonaise (Belgium/France)
| - paella (Spain)
| silvanocerza wrote:
| The pepperoni pizza is more of a language issue really, in
| the USA Pepperoni is a salami brand and it sounds a TON like
| peperoni, the italian word for bell peppers.
| [deleted]
| liopleurodon wrote:
| can't wait to go to Italy and order deep dish
| dagw wrote:
| Next time you're in Torino, go for it. "Pizza al tegamino"
| is the phrase you're looking for. Also keep an eye out for
| a "torte salata", some of which are quite similar to what
| Americans call deep dish pizza.
| dang wrote:
| Please don't take HN threads further into nationalistic
| flamewar hell.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
| slumdev wrote:
| When I hear the word "pizza", the first thing that comes to
| mind is a New York slice.
|
| Italy wasn't the first culture to bake cheese and other
| ingredients on a flatbread, either:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_pizza
| zaphod12 wrote:
| Wait...what on earth is American paella?!?!?!
| Djvacto wrote:
| Paella actually has a lot of variations all over spain, and
| it was a very "what do we have on-hand" kind of food!
|
| My relatives in Madrid have chorizo, shrimp, shellfish,
| rabbit, chicken, sausage as far as meats I've seen in the
| paellas they've made.
|
| Chorizo, shrimp, shellfish, and chicken is by far the most
| common they make. It may also make sense that the paella
| that "caught on" in the states just hails from a different
| region of Spain. So "American Paella" may just be closer to
| a non-valencian paella.
| jk7tarYZAQNpTQa wrote:
| > Paella actually has a lot of variations all over spain,
| and it was a very "what do we have on-hand" kind of food!
|
| I'm sorry but that's not true at all. Paella allows for
| some variations, but there's a clear line separating
| paella from "arroz con cosas". Just because it has rice
| and is cooked in a wide and short pan doesn't make it
| paella.
|
| > My relatives in Madrid have chorizo, shrimp, shellfish,
| rabbit, chicken, sausage as far as meats I've seen in the
| paellas they've made.
|
| I don't think you can call an orange juice "paella" just
| because "that's how you cook it".
| harperlee wrote:
| Paella Valenciana might be that restrictive, but
| paella... that ship sailed long ago. Paella can even come
| with orange juice if you are inventive enough (it ought
| to have orange reminiscences due to The Need to cook it
| with naranjo wood).
|
| And that "clear line" is source of endless discussions,
| so not so clear it seems!
| jmkb wrote:
| It usually features shrimp and chorizo, while the classic
| Valencian paella has chicken and rabbit. (There are many
| regional paella variations but don't tell a Valencian
| that.)
| jandrese wrote:
| Eh, this feels kind of like saying some country doesn't
| do stew right because they use local ingredients.
| jk7tarYZAQNpTQa wrote:
| So chorizo is a local American ingredient? Americans
| expect chorizo on their paellas because that's one of the
| few things they know about Spanish cuisine. It's just
| like them expecting Italians to only eat pizza and pasta,
| when that's a very small part of the Italian cuisine.
| mbg721 wrote:
| Jambalaya.
| arcturus17 wrote:
| Or mayo for that matter?
|
| Also pizza pepperoni might be an American / Ninja Turtles
| thing, but I've seen plenty of genuine Italian places that
| make them with variations of small salame which are very
| close...
| toolslive wrote:
| No way you get salami on a pizza pepperoni in Italy,
| unless you're in a tourist place where they know what
| Americans expect when order this.
|
| Mayonaise in France/Belgium will have 0 sugar.
| dagw wrote:
| The pepperoni pizza thing is not people 'demanding'
| something different, it's just people incorrectly
| translating the menu and getting something other than
| what they where expecting.
|
| And does mayonnaise anywhere have sugar in it.
| zabzonk wrote:
| Helmans does - from the Unilever site:
|
| > Soybean oil, water, whole eggs and egg yolks, vinegar,
| salt, sugar, lemon juice, calcium disodium edta (used to
| protect quality), natural flavors.
| arcturus17 wrote:
| I wasn't clear, I'm not talking about "pizza pepperoni"
| literally, I am talking about pizza with _some kind of
| salame or sausage on it_. I know that pepperoni is not
| sausage in Italian, what I mean is that a pizza with some
| kind of sausage on it is not a total bastardization of an
| Italian concept, since it 's quite a common topping
| throughout the country.
| imgabe wrote:
| Mayonnaise in the US also has zero sugar:
|
| https://smartlabel.unileverusa.com/048001213487-0001-en-
| US/i...
| jjeaff wrote:
| Click the ingredients tab in your link and you will see
| sugar listed. You aren't seeing it on the nutrition label
| because the FDA allows you to pretend there is no sugar
| as long as you have less than 1g of sugar per serving.
|
| So, make the serving size small enough, and almost
| anything can show no sugar on the nutrition label.
|
| I believe you can also use the term "sugar free" as long
| as you have 0.5g or less sugar per serving.
| imgabe wrote:
| The serving size is 1 tbsp which is a reasonable amount
| for one serving. It's a negligible amount of sugar.
| MSM wrote:
| It does have some sugar, it's just very small amounts:
|
| https://smartlabel.unileverusa.com/048001213487-0001-en-
| US/i...
|
| I do wonder how the addition of a tiny amount of sugar,
| less than the amount of added salt, could even be
| noticed... let alone enough to request the "real"
| American version
| zenexer wrote:
| I've had "pepperoni" pizza in Italy at a place where
| nobody spoke any English. It was filled with locals, not
| tourists. They had one kind of pizza: whatever they
| decided to make that day. For a few days it was what I,
| as an American, would call pepperoni. I don't remember
| the local word for it, but it wasn't pepperoni.
|
| I'm not a fan of typical American mayo, but I've never
| seen it with sugar.
| dagw wrote:
| The 'confusion' is that the word "peperoni" in Italian is
| a bell pepper, so if you see that word on an Italian menu
| you'll be getting something with bell peppers which might
| not be what you wanted.
|
| Italians absolutely have pizzas that Americans would
| recognize as a "pepperoni pizza" (two p's), it just won't
| be called a "peperion pizza" (one p)
| jjeaff wrote:
| From what I can tell, all the major brands of mayo in the
| US have some sugar. Though it is not a lot compared to
| its much sweeter descendant, miracle whip.
| fouc wrote:
| Interesting bit about mayo that I've noticed, there's a
| Japanese-style mayo that's common in Asia. It's made with
| egg yolks, rice vinegar or apple cider vinegar.
|
| It's much sweeter in taste than Western-style mayo which
| is made with whole eggs and distilled vinegar.
|
| Personally I find the asian-style mayo far too sweet and
| "rich", I much prefer the lighter western-style mayo.
| jjeaff wrote:
| You will often see japanese style mayo used on sushi
| rolls in American sushi restaurants.
| fnord123 wrote:
| Probably with chorizo.
| toolslive wrote:
| It's also true the other way around: I am 100% sure that if I
| enter an Exotic restaurant in Belgium, that what I will get
| is something that has been "tweaked" to suite Belgian taste
| buds.
| oauea wrote:
| You're completely missing the point. You won't see many
| non-Americans go to another country, then demand the
| bastardized versions of local dishes.
| long_time_gone wrote:
| And yet, you can find California rolls in Japan.
| sidlls wrote:
| As an American who goes to restaurants in America in
| heavily tourist populated areas, I can assure you that
| you are hilariously wrong. Non-americans are not superior
| _in any way_ to Americans in this regard (and many
| others).
| dagw wrote:
| I take it you have never seen British or German tourists
| in Spain.
| [deleted]
| zenexer wrote:
| I live in an area of the US with lots of Asian and
| European tourists, and they do exactly what you claim
| they don't do.
|
| Is it really an issue, though? As long as they're nice, I
| find their impression of my culture to be more
| fascinating than anything.
| pwinnski wrote:
| This is VERY incorrect. I've seen visitors from Europe
| and Asia do this many, many, many times.
| distantaidenn wrote:
| Or maybe some Americans just prefer the American
| version...the ones we grew up with.
|
| Example, yeah I know our chocolate supposedly tastes like
| vomit to Europeans, but eh, it's what we know, and taste fine
| if you were raised with it.
|
| Edit: This will probably elicit more ire, but I'm genuienly
| curious why this was downvoted? Is it because of the dislike
| of American chocolate, or the idea that some people (in this
| case Americans) like the food they were raised with?
| engineeringwoke wrote:
| I think that's a bit reductionist. A Milka bar is not that
| different than a Hershey bar, and snobs turn up their nose
| at them in both continents.
| distantaidenn wrote:
| I'm curious which part you consider reductionist. Also,
| American milk chocolate proper tastes like vomit to some
| Europeans/Aussies due to the butyric acid formed during
| the lipolysis phase of the milk fats. It's exactly that
| which gives American chocolate its unique (vomit-like)
| flavor.
|
| Anecdotal, but I couldn't believe it when I heard people
| hated our chocolate, and asked my decidedly non-snobby
| English buds and my (non-American) fiance, and they
| confirmed it tastes off to them, albeit palatable.
| However, Hershey's Kisses were a no-go for the fiance.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > Also, American milk chocolate proper tastes like vomit
| to some Europeans/Aussies due to the butyric acid formed
| during the lipolysis phase of the milk fats. It's exactly
| that which gives American chocolate its unique (vomit-
| like) flavor.
|
| American milk chocolate and American chocolate aren't the
| same thing.
| IneffablePigeon wrote:
| Yeah, it's a genuinely different taste. I'm not a big fan
| of cheap chocolate from Europe or the US any more but I'm
| definitely more used to the Europe style than the US
| style. I also can't stand Kisses, they really do taste
| like they're a year past their best before date to me.
| All subjective though, isn't it.
| engineeringwoke wrote:
| Huh, I had no idea there was a real difference
| joelfolksy wrote:
| Why are you using "American milk chocolate" as a synonym
| for "Hershey's"?
| RosanaAnaDana wrote:
| I mean...
|
| If you had to pick a brand of chocolate to represent
| "American milk chocolate", would you pick anything but
| Hershey's?
| nottorp wrote:
| Dunno how American chocolate tastes, but at some point
| there was something in the news saying that products
| containing zero cocoa can label themselves "chocolate" in
| the US so I'm not even willing to try. At least not the
| "popular" brands.
| lordlimecat wrote:
| Not sure where you are getting your news, but it is not
| true. Many products-- like chocolate and ice cream-- have
| regulated definitions(1). You are allowed to call things
| "chocolate [noun]" (as in pudding) sometimes despite not
| being chocolate, but my reading of the rules(2) is that
| it must contain cocoa.
|
| [1]: https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-
| bin/retrieveECFR?gp=1&SID=fe2b45308...
|
| [2]: https://www.fda.gov/regulatory-information/search-
| fda-guidan...
| pempem wrote:
| I think for most its because in America re: chocolate in
| particular, marketing and cheap filler-based products won
| out. A european company wouldn't make hershey's milk
| chocolate and call it chocolate bc its mostly sugar.
| slumdev wrote:
| American chocolate is probably a bad example because what
| makes it bad is the lack of cocoa.
|
| If we sold "American coffee" that was 99% chicory and 1%
| coffee, it'd also get a lot of hate.
| kylemurph wrote:
| Most developed countries have great chocolate, the floor of
| chocolate from America is lower than the floor of European
| chocolate, even though the ceilings are about the same. So,
| on average, European chocolate is better.
| criddell wrote:
| Anybody who says US chocolate is terrible hasn't looked for
| anything beyond what a 7-11 would carry. Even Hershey's
| sells some great stuff under different brand names (like
| Dagoba).
| dagw wrote:
| American chocolate is like American beer. On some level
| everybody kind of knows that there are 100s of great
| American beers out there, but most people still
| instinctively think Bud Lite when they hear the phrase
| "American beer", and judges accordingly.
| jrochkind1 wrote:
| I was raised with it and I think Hershey's smells like dog
| poop.
| RHSeeger wrote:
| There are high quality cheese that smell like old feet.
| My wife started out calling Locatelli (my favorite
| Pecorino Romano) "foot cheese".
|
| > The compounds produced by the Limburger cheese are
| close enough to human body odor to confuse mosquitoes
| https://askentomologists.com/2015/09/10/mosquitoes-love-
| chee...
|
| Just because something has a smell that is reminiscent of
| some other (unappatizing) thing, doesn't necessarily
| speak to how good it tastes.
| RankingMember wrote:
| So it's not just me! It's weird though, because I can
| still eat it no problem. One of those weird things like
| cheese where it smelling bad doesn't make it
| unappetizing.
| distantaidenn wrote:
| You're talking to a man that loves him some natto and
| when I can get my hands on it: durian. Both can clear a
| room.
|
| I can pretty much eat anything. But, I couldn't even get
| down one bite of stinky tofu when I was in Taiwan. It
| tastes exactly like it smells. Still waiting to try some
| surstromming.
| bjelkeman-again wrote:
| In my limited experience surstromming doesn't taste as
| bad as it smells (it smells pretty bad). But, it doesn't
| actually compensate by tasting good either. So I never
| saw any point eating it beyond the first try.
| WastingMyTime89 wrote:
| > It tastes exactly like it smells.
|
| Don't know if it will help you but I think the same thing
| of durian. It smells like rotten food and tastes like
| rotten food.
|
| I think people have varying degree of sensitivity to the
| various compounds in the food and that another
| significant part of it is also linked to what you were
| exposed to while growing up and the association you made.
| jrochkind1 wrote:
| I eat it sometimes, but will never choose it if I have an
| option.
|
| But yeah, for years now, I've been like, uh, people, this
| literally smells like dog poop, right? Does nobody notice
| this except me? A few years ago again mystified I googled
| it and found the butyric acid acid thing. Apparently
| people more often say "vomit" but to me it's definitely
| dog poop. SO WEIRD that now this scent/flavor has
| apparently become well-liked, that other chocolate
| manufacturers do it on purpose? Just weird. But yeah,
| people like what they like.
| ziml77 wrote:
| Hershey's is odd, but humans eat plenty of foods that
| taste or smell strange. Some of those are even considered
| delicacies. The biggest factor to if one likes them is
| growing up with it, but of course liking them is not a
| given.
| ahartmetz wrote:
| (German) I didn't grow up with Hershey's but when I tried
| it, the traditional spoiled milk substance in it tasted
| like honey to me. And later I read that the substance is
| indeed found in honey. The honey taste is alright, it's a
| nice variety on chocolate taste. It's the rest of it that
| I find slightly subpar for the price - not terrible
| though. Maybe they sell a different recipe here.
| RosanaAnaDana wrote:
| I did outdoor ed and summer camps for decades, and I've
| never though Hersheys smelled like anything other than
| doo-doo.
|
| Like actual doo-doo. I remember bringing it by a kybo and
| doing a smell compare. Yep. Doo-doo.
|
| Its gross, nasty brown candle wax.
| vidanay wrote:
| Holy crap (lol), I haven't heard the term KYBO used in
| 30+ years.
| christophilus wrote:
| I'm an American, and never thought we invented any of those.
| These broad, sweeping American stereotypes are as obnoxious
| as American tourists in Brussels. (See what I did, there.)
| sp332 wrote:
| It's a communication problem. If an American sees "paella"
| on a menu in Spain, they're not going to recognize what's
| on the plate. It's not that Americans did or didn't invent
| it, it's just not what they thought they were asking for.
| 0_____0 wrote:
| I'm intrigued by this notion of an alternate form of
| paella; what is it that Americans think they're asking
| for when they order paella?
| dagw wrote:
| "Paella" in the US (and much of non-mediterranean Europe)
| generally implies shellfish. This is only common in some
| parts of Spain, and is not considered an 'authentic'
| Valencian paella.
|
| An American would absolutely recognize it for what it is,
| it might just be a bit different from what they where
| assuming.
|
| That being said most Spaniards happily chuck whatever
| they happen to have laying round into their paella when
| cooking at home.
| ahartmetz wrote:
| Hm. I'm German, and to me, paella means some dish with
| rice in a pan plus whatever. Usually contains tomato in
| some way, I guess? It has a similar meaning to pizza
| (starchy base + usually tomato + [...]) that way.
| jmkb wrote:
| The notion of paella purity is powerful enough that
| Valencians successfully protested Apple's rendering of
| the "shallow pan of food" emoji because it evoked a non-
| Valencian paella (or, as they would say, not paella at
| all but just arroz con cosas.)
|
| https://blog.emojipedia.org/apple-fixes-paella-emoji/
| joelfolksy wrote:
| ""Paella" in the US (and much of non-mediterranean
| Europe) generally implies shellfish."
|
| Interested in how you came to that conclusion. All of the
| restaurants near me that serve paella offer a wide
| variety of protein options.
| FooBarBizBazz wrote:
| Oh, but "you" did invent them, that's the point!
|
| Original post has been flagged for a swipe at American
| tourists, but its list of "foreign" foods that are actually
| American is a good one. That list: - pizza
| pepperoni (Italy) - mayonaise (Belgium/France)
| - paella (Spain)
|
| We can add to this Sriracha.
|
| This phenomenon is not unique to America though. Like, try
| Chindian food some time. Not invented in China.
| pempem wrote:
| I died. I love the idea of Chindian being the new word
| for Indo-Chinese. Am gonna try it out today.
|
| Also, agreed!, the food is definitely very indian and
| very delicious. Soy sauce might be the most Chinese thing
| about it.
| fragile_frogs wrote:
| Sriracha was invented in Thailand:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sriracha
| dang wrote:
| Please don't post supercilious dismissals and especially not
| nationalistic flamebait to HN.
|
| We detached this subthread from
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27658877.
| freebreakfast wrote:
| I feel the same way when Italians talk about pizza. Everyone
| knows it originated in Korea.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiLA6Bk_ivs
|
| Spoiler: If you live in Korea long enough, you start to develop
| the sense that Koreans think everything was invented in Korea.
| This is obviously not an accurate reflection of Koreans, but
| Koreans love to share what is unique about their country. This
| makes it hard not to joke about the idea. And it's enjoyable to
| see a Korean company making light of the idea.
| ddoolin wrote:
| Ah yes, good ole' "Love For Women."
| spywaregorilla wrote:
| As someone who lives in America and regularly sees literal
| busloads of SE asian tourists, I assure you, they're not any
| better.
| freddie_mercury wrote:
| Sure, it happens everywhere. Like with Europeans and their
| constant condescension about how American chocolate isn't
| "real".
|
| I roll my eyes at them, too. I don't know why people need to
| take their personal preferences and elevate it to some kind
| of moral universal thing.
|
| But this post was about sriracha so I mentioned a sriracha
| anecdote.
| rhacker wrote:
| I guess it's about the eyeroll. People are going to be
| people. Do you want all those American visitors to know
| everything you do or do you want them to stop visiting I
| guess is the real question.
| freddie_mercury wrote:
| I want them not to say "the real one". All they have to
| say is "the one I'm used to". You don't need to know
| anything about food or history or sriracha to do that.
| spywaregorilla wrote:
| > You don't need to know anything about food or history
| or sriracha to do that.
|
| If you don't know anything about food, you're likely to
| believe that the one you're used to is the real one.
| chrisweekly wrote:
| I was already a daily consumer of Sriracha before I saw the
| awesome 33m documentary film. Brand "loyalty" is, I think, the
| operative term.
|
| https://vimeo.com/ondemand/sriracha#_=_
| dyeje wrote:
| I like the sauce.
| Danieru wrote:
| No comments yet pointing out what I think is the important point:
| Siracha is the established brand.
|
| If anyone wants to compete with Siracha they would be best served
| by using marketing. That Siracha gets to skip spending on
| marketing after having developed a green field market just speaks
| to their competitive moat. They produce a high quality product at
| reasonable prices, if anything there isn't room to compete if not
| on marketing.
| jollybean wrote:
| They've developed channel power, probably not on the same level
| as Coke, but something like that.
|
| Once you have your place 'in the system' etc. you have
| incredible leverage.
|
| The chocolate bars at my convenience store are the same, boring
| 20 variations for my entire life. They are not 'the best
| products' - they are just the products that will work through
| the system. It'd take a decade of consumer awareness to put
| something on par with 'Coffee Crisp' and then you have to get
| all of the gears of distribution to go along with it.
|
| So what we end up up with in chocolate - and any number of
| other goods - is kind of a 'channel equilibrium' where products
| establish channel dominance (which requires scale), and then
| inch forward ever so slightly.
|
| To see a 'new' product get to that level ... take a look at
| 'Swiffer' (cleaner) - basically, that's an institutional effort
| by P&G to 'disrupt' their own categories a bit and they've
| spent zillions marketing that. It's a trivial little thing, not
| much in the way of innovation, but when were talking consumer
| products at that scale, it never was about 'innovation'.
|
| These companies do buy brands and scale them but even then
| brands meet their limit. 'Ben and Jerries' they can probably
| 10-50x in size ... but at that price point they can only go so
| far with the category. Odwalla ... sadly had to shut down.
| noduerme wrote:
| This makes me think about the explosion in ice cream startups
| in the 2010s (the second time it happened after the 1980s).
| Ice cream is particularly hard to distribute but several
| companies made the cut and found themselves in nationwide
| supermarket aisles. I think there's always a consumer
| appetite to try the next new thing. I don't buy the idea that
| there's a moat around any of it.
| failwhaleshark wrote:
| Yes, first-mover advantage per category, i.e., Pebble. There is
| also last-mover advantage, i.e., Apple Watch. If you get the
| FMA, you have to go big ASAP and continue to dominate.
| boomboomsubban wrote:
| >No comments yet pointing out what I think is the important
| point: Siracha is the established brand
|
| In 2021 it is. They got to this place without marketing and by
| entering an already packed condiment market. Tabasco sauce had
| already been around for a century before they even started.
| ConcernedCoder wrote:
| The best part for me, is that since introducing Sriracha into my
| weekly ( if not daily ) diet, my acid reflux has dropped to
| zero...? unexplained benefit?
| LordAtlas wrote:
| And despite it not tasting like the original Thai Sriracha sauce.
|
| Edit: the Thai version is thinner, tangier and a toucher sweeter,
| and made from spur chillies, not jalapenos. [1] [2] [3]
|
| [1] https://shesimmers.com/2010/03/homemade-sriracha-how-to-
| make...
|
| [2]
| https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2019/01/16/681944292/in...
|
| [3] https://www.thrillist.com/eat/nation/what-is-sriracha-sauce
|
| Not saying the Tran sauce is bad; just different.
| CaptainZapp wrote:
| The Thai version, at least the one available in supermarkets
| here, has too much of a distinct garlicky taste for my taste
| buds.
|
| It really is a matter of taste I suppose.
| jozvolskyef wrote:
| I accidentally bought the brand that is more common in
| Britain (Flying Goose). It wasn't as spicy as I expected so I
| put a fair dose in my tortilla and now I can't even think
| about it without feeling nauseous because it was way too
| salty and garlicky. The British variant apparently has 5x the
| amount of salt, is less spicy, and tastes strongly of garlic.
| And yet it uses the exact same visual design of the bottle,
| pretending to be the same thing.
| fragile_frogs wrote:
| If you want the spicier version of Flying Goose you need to
| buy the bottles with the red cap.
| fnord123 wrote:
| What does "too much of a distinct garlicky taste" mean? How
| can you possibly have too much garlic?
| dsr_ wrote:
| Try a spoonful of toum.
| lovegoblin wrote:
| Happily.
| CaptainZapp wrote:
| I love garlic, the more the better.
|
| The problem with the Flying Goose sauce (yeah, that's the
| one) is that the taste is more like garlic powder, which I
| think tastes disgusting.
|
| BTW: I think it's a fair question, so I really don't get
| the downvotes.
| jffry wrote:
| Not everybody likes the same foods or flavors as you, and
| that's okay.
| jfengel wrote:
| It surprised me just how sweet authentic Thai cuisine is.
| Usually, American food is sweeter than its origins. In the case
| of Thai food, Americans may actually have toned down the
| sweetness a bit.
| mark-r wrote:
| Thai food is an interesting case. The Thai government has
| recognized that food is great at breaking down cultural
| barriers, and they've gone to great lengths to promote it.
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17770707
| buckhx wrote:
| Team Shark Brand here. It's sweeter and spicier, though I do
| wish it came in a bottle smaller than 750ml...
| papito wrote:
| There was a long piece on the beginnings of Sriracha in LA (I
| cannot find it because there are many), but what stood out to
| me specifically was it talking about how "back home" the
| American Sriracha was the shit.
| rplnt wrote:
| Is the sauce that I get in every Asian restaurant not the same
| Sriracha?
|
| edit: clicked on the link, it seems to be that one, I think?
| garmaine wrote:
| It's a California fusion food which has spread world-wide.
| Sibling comment is incorrect; it is at most "inspired by" the
| original Thai sauce. It's made with the California-native
| Jalapeno ingredients you might expect in a Mexican
| restaurant, not South East Asian cuisine.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
| Nope.
|
| The style has been around for a long time and other SEAsian
| countries have their brands.
|
| I used to consume a lot of a different brand when I was a kid
| and always thought it was funny when this particular brand
| caught on in western countries. I never thought it was very
| good.
| jrochkind1 wrote:
| It's initial popularity was apparently through SE asian
| "ethnic" restaurants catering to immigrants too, it seems
| like?
|
| But yeah, in the end we like what we like -- I'm a non-
| immigrant American, I definitely liked the huy fong one the
| first time I tried it (in the mid-90s?), and still do, and
| I'm not ashamed regardless of how "authentic" it is. :)
| 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
| I just want to be clear I'm not telling anyone what to
| like. You like what you like. I'm just surprised this is
| the one that became popular. Use the sauce you want!
| dafelst wrote:
| Sri Racha is a town in Thailand, Sriracha sauce is named
| after that town and is ostensibly an attempt to replicate the
| sauce that originated from there - apparently it misses the
| mark a bit in terms of authenticity, but obviously it is
| still pretty great.
| rat87 wrote:
| I don't think that's accurate
|
| David Tran is not from Sri Racha or Thailand, he's a
| Chinese-Vietnamese refugee/immigrant to America Sri Racha
| wasn't his first hot sauce just the most successful. He was
| trying to make hot sauces especially aimed at local asian
| restaurants not to perfectly replicate an authentic Thai
| recipe he was inspired by. It doesn't miss the mark because
| it wasn't aiming for it
|
| https://www.bangkokpost.com/print/640796/
|
| > "I considered Sriracha a Thai sauce when I made my
| version," Mr Tran explained in an email. "There were
| already Srirachas in the market when I started making my
| style. I took the original Sriracha and made it enjoyable
| to my taste."
| Alupis wrote:
| The popular Huy Fong Foods product (green cap, roster on
| bottle) uses red jalapenos as it's primary pepper.
|
| Of course jalapenos are grown in Thailand today, but I'd
| wager the original sauce used a different, more local
| pepper.
| nwallin wrote:
| > Of course jalapenos are grown in Thailand today, but
| I'd wager the original sauce used a different, more local
| pepper.
|
| The entire genus of capsicums are new world plants, and
| would have been unknown prior to the Columbian exchange.
| The family includes tomatoes, potatoes and bell peppers,
| which are all native to South America. There is no
| "local" pepper in Thailand- all of it was imported.
|
| edit: there's black pepper and long pepper, but that's...
| not the same thing.
| ramraj07 wrote:
| If you can't consider Chillies local for Asian food then
| we can't consider tomatoes authentic Italian food either,
| but then at that point what exactly are you even talking
| about?
| bostik wrote:
| Tomatoes are associated with Italy, but they are not a
| traditional Italian ingredient. The plant was introduced
| from Americas in mid-1500's, and became a staple only
| during the 1700's.
|
| 0: https://scholarblogs.emory.edu/noodles/2018/07/03/hist
| ory-of...
| axlee wrote:
| What is your cutoff in terms of time for what is
| traditional or not?
|
| I would wager that 300+ years is more than enough for any
| custom to be qualified as traditional.
| bostik wrote:
| Something that would have been known as age-old by the
| time the enlightenment started to set in. So that's what,
| 1300's as the cutoff? 300 years is barely enough to
| establish a town pub.
|
| For the record, I'm a Finn. By my own definition, there
| are maybe only _three_ traditional Finnish foods that
| have survived that long. Carelian stew, sara, and _maybe_
| robber 's roast (clay-pit mutton).
|
| Whereas something like wine leaf rolls from Greece,
| Turkey and Lebanon - now those can be properly
| traditional.
| thechao wrote:
| According to most Europeans I talk to, the cutoff is
| whatever makes European culture authentic, and American
| culture shallow. My favorite conversation was between
| myself, an Austrian, my best friend from China, and a
| friend from Tyre:
|
| > Austrian: America doesn't have a culture -- it's only
| really been around for a few hundred years: my family has
| chairs older than that! We date back to the 1100s!
|
| > (Best friend from China): my village's local temple
| (the core) was more than 500 years old in the 1100s; your
| culture is still getting started!
|
| > (Friend from Tyre): my house is in the new part of the
| city built by Alexander in 330 ... BC. The old city was
| established further back in the past from the new city,
| than the new city is from now. Until your people have
| lived in a place for at least 2000 years, how can you
| really say you "own" it?
|
| Then we got a beer & watched "Dancing With the Stars".
| mensetmanusman wrote:
| The interesting thing about China now is that they have
| been actively destroying their remnants of ancient
| culture to try to speed economic development.
|
| As a consequence their culture is converging somewhat
| towards the cultural revolution which is only about 70
| years old. So they are a young political culture in that
| regards, and politics dominates due to its military
| force.
| jrochkind1 wrote:
| How old does something have to be in order to be
| "tradition"?
|
| The idea that before some certain point a culture was
| "frozen" is usually ahistorical. Certainly true for
| cultures of the Italian penninsula, on the Mediteranean
| providing easy access to wide swaths of land and peoples,
| part of a former empire that spanned continents.
| dsr_ wrote:
| How old does something have to be in order to be
| "tradition"?
|
| Easy: as soon as the people who adopted it into the
| current form are dead and the adoption forgotten.
|
| My grandmother's cherry island cake was almost certainly
| copied off the back of a package sometime in the 1920s or
| 30s; maybe it's an adaptation of a German or Hungarian
| recipe. Now it's a tradition in my family.
| adrianN wrote:
| Many other things that I consider integral parts of
| Italian culture are not much older.
| spacechild1 wrote:
| That's a bit ridiculous. 300 years is not old enough to
| be considered "traditional"?
| [deleted]
| huffmsa wrote:
| I actually don't remember eating that many tomatoes last
| time I was in Italy. I did go to the North, which has a
| bit more butter eater influence, but even in Rome there
| weren't that many tomatoes. Olives, cheeses, cured meats
| abound, but not tomatoes.
| elondaits wrote:
| I live in South America and buy premium Italian tomatoes
| for my pizza sauce because they're that good.
| saalaa wrote:
| Funnily enough, black pepper is called Thai pepper in
| Thai, it being the native kind of pepper (phrikaithy).
| tpm wrote:
| There is a big difference between imported 300 years ago
| and imported 30 years ago. Especially for capsicums which
| can be adopted in nearly every climate (for some only
| indoors, but still). Many countries and regions have
| their own special peppers and it became an integral part
| of the culture (the same for potatoes, tomatoes etc).
|
| As to the history of chilli in Asia, there is a very good
| book The Chile Pepper in China - A Cultural Biography,
| worth reading http://cup.columbia.edu/book/the-chile-
| pepper-in-china/97802...
| mastazi wrote:
| In Thai, chilli peppers are called "phrik" and black
| pepper is "phrik Thai"[1] so even the common name
| acknowledges that the former is not indigenous.
|
| [1] at least I think so, my Thai is quite bad.
| saalaa wrote:
| You're correct.
| ginko wrote:
| There's still cultivars that have been grown for hundreds
| of years over there, so I would consider them 'local',
| just not native.
|
| On a side note, there's a bunch of articles claiming
| peppers have been used in East Asia before the Columbian
| exchange. Like this one[1] for example. These usually
| have a bit of a nationalist bend since the implication is
| that the local chili heavy cuisine has been unchanged for
| millennia. It's an interesting thought experiment at
| least.
|
| [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S23
| 5261811...!
| jrochkind1 wrote:
| Yeah, and almost certainly not true.
|
| > These usually have a bit of a nationalist bend since
| the implication is that the local chili heavy cuisine has
| been unchanged for millennia.
|
| Why do we have the need to claim that our cultures have
| been unchanged for millenia? Almost _none_ have, human
| culture is remarkably adaptive and changing, and every
| time two cultures meet they change each other, adopt each
| others food and music etc -- and why wouldn 't they?
|
| These days almost all humans/cultures are insisting that
| their "authentic" culture is unchanged for millenia
| though. I don't know if it's always been that way (see
| what I did there haha). I think it's actually a very
| right-wing sort of thing, harkening back to an imaginary
| "authentic" past when things were, uh, great.
|
| It's effecting our very understanding of culture, we all
| think that "real" culture is unchanging forever -- which
| is not how humans work at all! Or that in some distant
| past, all culture existed entirely silo'd without
| interacting or influencing each other, merging with each
| other and splitting off from each other -- also not how
| hardly any actually existing human populations have
| existed through time!
| InitialLastName wrote:
| My favorite is when people claim their culture has never
| changed out of one side of their mouth, and then whine
| about the new music their kids listen to out of the
| other.
| ch4s3 wrote:
| From the article:
|
| > The recent research states that gochu appeared on the
| earth billions of years ago [4], and might have been
| transferred by the birds that ate them
|
| That seems like a rather incredible claim, and I imagine
| it's probably untrue.
| busymom0 wrote:
| I remember watching some video few years ago about how
| due to some reason, they had to change the peppers or the
| soil it was grown on or something (I apologize if this is
| my faulty memory, I could be totally wrong). Are the red
| jalapenos which Huy Fong Foods brand uses any different
| from the thai version in terms of taste?
| mark-r wrote:
| That was my understanding too, maybe I saw the same
| source. Huy Fong was very particular about the source of
| their peppers, they were constrained for a while by not
| being able to get enough of the ones that met their
| standard.
| ajsnigrutin wrote:
| Is it really that specific?
|
| We have many "<town/village> <foodname>" here, and basiclly
| every grandma in that town/village, has a slighty different
| recipe, with a slightly different "secret ingredient" or
| even with major changes (think chilli vs texas chilli)
| sirn wrote:
| Even though the origin of Sri Racha sauce is debated
| (even in Thailand), it was the recipe used by a small
| shop named "Sriraja Panich" that became known as the Sri
| Racha sauce in Thailand. The popularity of Sriraja
| Panich's recipe inspired other brands in Thailand to make
| a sauce with similar ingredients and taste. Only after
| then it became known as a type of a sauce.
|
| Today, even though every sauce brand in Thailand has
| started producing a Sri Racha-type sauce, many Thais
| still only considered Sriraja Panich's sauce to be the
| authentic one.
| lordlimecat wrote:
| I just always called it rooster sauce and avoided this whole
| debate.
| TobiasA wrote:
| I don't see how it's despite of that. Original doesn't always
| mean better.
| cunthorpe wrote:
| To put it in clearer terms, this is like selling a "Chicago-
| style pizza" but putting cheddar cheese instead of
| mozzarella. This new version can be successful, but it's
| still _not the original Chicago-style pizza._
| asah wrote:
| You mean that casserole :-)
|
| https://youtube.com/watch?v=jCgYMFtxUUw
| nsxwolf wrote:
| You can always tell when someone's never eaten it when
| they describe it as a casserole or lasagne. There's no
| way you could eat it and describe it that way.
|
| Also, a minority of "Chicago style" pizza is deep dish.
| jessaustin wrote:
| [EDIT:] It's amusing that Chicago people are doing this
| same "we are so misunderstood by the people who pay
| attention to our marketing" thing seen elsewhere ITT from
| Europeans. Is it possible for an American city to succeed
| in this maneuver, or is it a Europe-only thing?
|
| All Chicago-style pizzas, fat or thin, are strictly
| inferior to St Louis-style pizza.
| nsxwolf wrote:
| I haven't tried St. Louis style. I'd eat it. It's cut
| properly, at least.
| long_time_gone wrote:
| ==After all most of the time people like to eat decent
| pizza.==
|
| Considering Pizza Hut is the largest chain in America, I
| have to disagree. Chicago Tavern-style pizza is the only
| type I ever see locals eating in Chicago. Deep dish is
| mostly for tourists.
|
| Bon Appetit agrees: Chicago's Real Signature Pizza Is
| Crispy, Crunchy, and Nothing Like Deep Dish
|
| link: https://www.bonappetit.com/story/real-chicago-
| pizza-tavern-s...
| auiya wrote:
| I much prefer the flavor of the Sriraja Panich brand you find
| in the Asian markets. But the squeeze-bottle packaging/pour of
| the Huy Fong stuff is definitely more convenient than the glass
| ketchup bottle style package Sriraja Panich comes in over here.
| I've never seen it in a squeeze bottle package like that second
| article shows.
| rattray wrote:
| Despite? Because!
|
| The US has a different flavor culture than SE Asia (though Huy
| Fong did get its start selling to SE Asian immigrants in the
| US).
|
| I've tried more "authentic" Srirachas and don't like them at
| all (taste like cheap sweet ketchup to me). I eat Huy Fong
| almost daily (I have no Asian heritage).
| malkia wrote:
| Would Geico be the opposite of all that? (E.g. not sure how many
| people actually get insured with Geico, but certainly most
| entertaining ads ever)
| varispeed wrote:
| I wonder if a company that does not have such "overheads" like
| sales team, do pay floor employees significantly more than other
| companies and therefore it ends up getting more quality work
| done?
| ChrisArchitect wrote:
| not news. Stringing a bunch of content together from news posts
| from 2019 or older, like 2017 etc. (which have already been on
| here)
| lifeisstillgood wrote:
| >>> He filled recycled baby jars and sold product out of a Blue
| Chevy Van, making $2.3k the first month.
|
| Wow. In 1978 or so. That's around 10K first month in todays
| money.
| martyvis wrote:
| No one has seemed to mention they were nearly shutdown in 2013
| https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2014/02/27/283307892...
| jrochkind1 wrote:
| It's in the OP
| https://twitter.com/TrungTPhan/status/1409192747605446661
| grouphugs wrote:
| stinky factories, you should move next to one, it'll be funny
| peter_d_sherman wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sriracha_sauce_(Huy_Fong_Foods...
|
| >"History
|
| David Tran began making chili sauces in 1975 in his native
| Vietnam, where his brother grew chili peppers on a farm north of
| Saigon.[5] In 1978, the new Communist Vietnamese government began
| to crack down on ethnic Chinese in south Vietnam. Tran and three
| thousand other refugees crowded onto the Taiwanese freighter Huey
| Fong, heading for Hong Kong. After a month-long standoff with the
| British authorities, its passengers disembarked on January 19,
| 1979.[16]
|
| Tran was granted asylum in the United States. He started Huy Fong
| Foods in 1980, naming the company after the refugee ship that
| brought him out of Vietnam.
|
| _The sauce was initially supplied to Asian restaurants near his
| base in Chinatown, Los Angeles,[3] but sales grew steadily by
| word of mouth._
|
| In December 2009, Bon Appetit magazine named the sauce Ingredient
| of the Year for 2010.[17][18]
|
| _In 2012, over 20 million bottles were sold.[3]_
|
| _Huy Fong Foods says demand has outpaced supply since the
| company started making the sauce._
|
| _The company does not advertise because advertising would widen
| that gap._
|
| Huy Fong has boosted production since 2013.[19]
|
| Sriracha sauce has grown from a cult taste to one of the food
| industry's most popular condiments. It infuses burgers, sushi,
| snacks, candy, beverages, and even health products. Tran said he
| was dissuaded from securing a trademark on the word sriracha
| since it is difficult to obtain one named after a real-life
| location. This has allowed others to develop their own versions,
| using the name. Some of the biggest corporations in the business,
| such as Heinz, Starbucks, Frito-Lay, Applebee's, P.F. Chang's,
| Pizza Hut, Subway, and Jack in the Box use the name without
| licensing it.[8][20] In 2016, Lexus partnered with Huy Fong Foods
| to build a single promotional Sriracha IS sport sedan.[21]"
| confiq wrote:
| wait... why nobody is talking about rick & morty TV show?
| Everyone should talking about it!
| x3n0ph3n3 wrote:
| szechuan != sriracha
| foolinaround wrote:
| the insight i was able to take away from this is to consider the
| competitors as 'free advertising' for the product.
|
| I guess this works as long as one's brand is acknowledged as the
| de-facto product.
| mandeepj wrote:
| No need to invent an electric car or go to space. Just a sauce
| can also be a MM business.
| cblconfederate wrote:
| Just imagine if they had spent in ads
| goldcd wrote:
| My guess as to why it's successful is that it's always been
| moderately priced and Huy Fong is recognized as the originator of
| the "Americanized Sriracha" sauces.
|
| If a company tries to sell a cheaper version - then it feels like
| a cheap knock-off. And as everybody can afford to buy the
| original, why wouldn't you?
|
| If a company tried to sell a more expensive premium product in
| flashier packaging - then it would feel inauthentic. What are you
| paying more for?
|
| Plus whilst they've not paid for advertising, they've performed
| an excellent job of ensuring I'm aware of their history. I've no
| idea of the history of say Tabasco or Franks - but I've many
| times heard the history of this plucky little immigrant founded
| company (and this thread is just a continuation). Maybe the key
| is to just have a likable story - and let others tell it.
| dystroy wrote:
| I don't think the likable story is key. Until recently, most of
| the many millions people buying the sauce didn't know anything
| about its origin. It was just the cheap sauce alone in its
| category that you could find everywhere.
| notahacker wrote:
| And the irony is, the "you could find everywhere" bit is
| entirely down to the sales force he doesn't have (but his ten
| distribution partners do, and his Asian competitors didn't
| have in his target market for most of their existence)
|
| I've got two different blends of Sriracha sauce in my
| cupboard, both from Thai companies and one of them even
| copying Tran's bottle style, but it wouldn't have occurred to
| me until reading this article that a particular Vietnamese-
| American brand was supposed to be the "authentic" one. He
| could have got the origin story out there to people who don't
| watch documentaries about hot sauce if he'd spent money on
| advertising though...
| move-on-by wrote:
| This is the first I've heard that there is a story behind it.
| I've got a bottle of it in the fridge right now. Perhaps some
| advertising wouldn't hurt.
| SketchySeaBeast wrote:
| You don't know the story but bought the product, so it's
| still working. Would knowing the story cause you to buy
| two?
| nonameiguess wrote:
| I'd never heard an origin story, either. The reason I'd heard
| of it, liked it, and buy it myself is because restaurants
| very conspicuously put it on their tables. If that wasn't
| coordinated marketing, then I guess it's luck. But was
| probably marketing. Even without a "sales team," someone had
| to be going to those restaurants and making deals with them.
| marban wrote:
| If a company tried to sell a more expensive premium product in
| flashier packaging - then it would feel inauthentic. What are
| you paying more for?
|
| Just stamp it artisan, hand-made, organic, gluten-free,
| whatever, quadruple the price and buy some Instagram ads.
| dsr_ wrote:
| They've done this, and the non-Huy Fong brands just aren't as
| good in an all-purpose hot sauce way.
|
| Valentina black label is better for some things, though. It's
| not marketed as a sriracha sauce, just a Mexican hot sauce.
| dagw wrote:
| People try that with ketchup all the time. It barely moves
| the needle. Sriracha, like Ketchup, is a 'cheap' product at
| this point. If people are going to spend 4 times as much they
| want something fancier.
| nextaccountic wrote:
| That works, but you will have a hard time selling it at
| scale.
| jeegsy wrote:
| Just say small batch
| etempleton wrote:
| Yep. They have a product people like and those people like it
| so much they do the marketing for them. It is the dream of any
| company to not have to do traditional marketing and
| advertising.
|
| And what more would I possibly want from their product? It is a
| good product at a reasonable price. People are going to go with
| what they like.
|
| All you have to do at this point is not mess that up. Don't try
| to increase profit margins by raising prices or changing the
| formula. And don't do anything that is going to lower brand
| recognition.
|
| The biggest risk to Heinz ketchup, for example, is their
| premium price. Restaurant owners often go with a different
| ketchup because Heinz costs significantly more. Obviously
| Kraft-Heinz has determined that they can make more money this
| way and since they have strong brand recognition it probably
| won't harm them.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| forrestthewoods wrote:
| > If a company tried to sell a more expensive premium product
| in flashier packaging - then it would feel inauthentic. What
| are you paying more for?
|
| My grocery store has a half dozen Sriracha sauces. Some I like
| less, some I like more. They're all pretty different in flavor.
| rattray wrote:
| I've tried three or four competing Sriracha sauces from Whole
| Foods, Trader Joe's, etc, and to my taste all are much less
| enjoyable than Huy Fong.
|
| It remains a differentiated product based on its core feature,
| taste.
| technofiend wrote:
| Have you tried Sriraja Panich Sriracha?[1] It's one of the
| many sauces that claims to be the original Thai version. I
| liked the taste pretty well, just as much as the version
| manufactured here although they are different. It doesn't
| taste anything like Sriracha but I prefer Bachan's BBQ Sauce
| to Sriracha. [2]
|
| [1] https://www.amazon.com/Sriraja-Panich-Sriracha-Chili-
| Sauce/d...
|
| [2] https://bachans.com/
| rattray wrote:
| Yes, I have tried Sriraja Panich. To me it's a "better
| ketchup" but too sweet for most applications.
|
| I might give Bachan's a try!
| mdturnerphys wrote:
| I like the Shark brand. I get it at a local Asian market,
| but you can also find it online [0].
|
| [0] https://importfood.com/products/thai-sauces-
| condiments/item/...
| libraryatnight wrote:
| Yes, to me this is a Coke like product. There are other
| sriracha sauces, just like there's other cola drinks, but so
| far there's only one Huy Fong Sriracha.
| res0nat0r wrote:
| I'm the same, all of the knock off's don't taste very good.
| Mostly it seems they have much more vinegar flavor which I
| don't like and is most of the time the main reason why I
| think they are inferior.
| HWR_14 wrote:
| Why are those knock offs? Sriracha has been an Asian sauce
| for a long time before Huy Fong.
| res0nat0r wrote:
| Because they aren't as good as the only US based sriracha
| maker I like. :)
| jagger27 wrote:
| There's something about competitors that tastes off to me.
| Almost like they picked the peppers too green?
| jonahbenton wrote:
| True though it's in the substantial economic interest of
| house brand teams to make it good enough, so they will keep
| trying. TJ in particular is quite good at this.
| rattray wrote:
| Trader Joe's incredible ability to pull this off in
| general, and inability to replicate Huy Fong (at least,
| last I tried) is a big part of what convinces me that Huy
| Fong must be doing something really special in how they
| make their sauce.
| zupzupper wrote:
| I haven't done a side by side with it, but the red dragon
| sauce is damn good.
|
| Maybe a bit different than Huy Fong, but it checks the
| box for me.
|
| Side note, the main mechanism TJs and other store brands
| use to pull off this trick is to have the original
| manufacturers produce the product for them as a white
| label product.
| hogFeast wrote:
| There is a book about the history of Tabasco
| -https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000W9393O/
| intuitionist wrote:
| Sauce and condiment companies that establish a franchise tend
| to be enormously profitable in general (see also pre-KHC Heinz
| or Lee Kum Kee). The product is very cheap to make, and as you
| note a bottle of sauce is pretty inexpensive (and contributes
| almost nothing to the cost structure of a full meal) so
| customers aren't all that price-sensitive. These facts are a
| recipe for fat margins and high ROIC.
| dcolkitt wrote:
| One thing that helped is it became the standard in pretty much
| every Pho restaurant I've ever been to. I don't know if that
| was intentional or not, but if definitely makes any alternative
| brand seem inauthentic.
| Xavdidtheshadow wrote:
| > I've no idea of the history of ... Tabasco
|
| Aside, but if you ever find yourself in or near southern
| Louisiana, the Tabasco headquarters at Avery Island is actually
| a pretty fun outing. Lots of tasting (pre covid anyway), a
| self-guided factory tour, and some cool nature.
| selimthegrim wrote:
| They have essentially an open air aviary.
| ksec wrote:
| It is basically like Heinz Ketchup.
|
| It reaches a point where it has economy of scale and specific
| taste profile developed that it is very hard for others to
| break into the market. Similar to bake beans for those living
| in UK.
|
| The cost of ingredient is so low in the overall of things,
| restaurants, owner, vendors or whatever are not willing to
| switch ingredients and risk losing their customers. Tabasco is
| similar because majority of their business actually resides in
| Food Services sector and not consumers. The basic rule of thumb
| in Food offering, dont FUCK with your recipes.
|
| I remember when I was still in the Food sector I was trying to
| import and distribute Sriracha for _years_ in the late 00s and
| very early 10s. Every time the answer has been not enough
| capacity. Demand outstripping Supply in most of their important
| / domestic ( US ) market. Importers have to rely on non-
| official parallel import channels. Somehow I think it went
| internet viral by mid 10s, which in turns generate _further_
| interest. And a whole positive feedback loop was formed. Worth
| noting is that these things takes a long time to make. I dont
| know about Sriracha but Tabasco takes up to _three years_. Once
| you factor in capacity planning and sourcing of quality
| chillies ( and assuming yields are good ), that is why supply
| takes time to catch up.
|
| Unfortunately these type of investment takes a very long time
| and are not something VC likes to invest in. But for me they
| are sometimes far more interesting and fascinating than most
| tech.
| lucasnortj wrote:
| Heinz ketchup is indistinguishable from Aldi ketchup. If you
| are buying Heinz you are just paying for some suit's Bentley
| mbg721 wrote:
| Heinz ketchup is on a whole different level; it's not just
| that it's the default ketchup (which it is), it's that:
|
| 1) When ketchup is called for, there isn't a substitute
| condiment that's kind of similar. Sriracha in general is a
| subset of hot sauces, but nobody thinks of a general case for
| ketchup--it's just ketchup. Maybe there are situations where
| no hot sauce but sriracha will do, but that's much rarer in
| the US (where Huy Fong dominates the market).
|
| 2) There are no Fancy Dijon Ketchups. The food snobs don't
| have an artisan brand they like better; Heinz is as good as
| it gets. It's Andy Warhol's old observation that the
| President drinks the same Coke that you do, only more so--
| there are way more niche colas than niche ketchups.
| tbranyen wrote:
| 2) Been to plenty of restaraunts that tout house-made
| ketchup. Sure Heinz has natural recipe variations out now,
| but the dijon of ketchup would be small batch sourced from
| garden fresh tomatoes and high end vinegar.
|
| I've seen plenty of brands in specialty markets that are
| more expensive than Heinz for that reason.
| jnwatson wrote:
| Whataburger uses and now bottles and sells their own
| ketchup. I think it is phenomenal, and I'm a fan of
| Heinz.
| mbg721 wrote:
| I may be in a bit of a bubble then; I think I've only
| been to one restaurant that made their own ketchup (for
| their duck-fat fries, and they were definitely an
| outlier). I'm sure now that I'm looking out for them, I
| will now see high-end small-batch ketchups everywhere.
| saalweachter wrote:
| I've seen it once or twice.
|
| I'm curious how trends will go in the future -- maybe
| next year will be all about artisanal small-batch
| ketchups, who knows -- but it wouldn't surprise me if
| ~everyone who likes ketchup on things is perfectly happy
| with Heinz 57 and ~most people who want something else
| for their burgers, fries or steaks want something
| _different_. BBQ sauce, mayo, mustard, sriracha, guac,
| mole... and not just "ketchup, but better".
|
| Like, imagine your friend excitedly dragging you to a new
| restaurant, where they serve their house-made fries with
| ________. The world of things that can go in that blank
| is so large I have a hard time imagining "artisanal
| ketchup" being the thing that wins out.
| AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote:
| > The food snobs don't have an artisan brand they like
| better; Heinz is as good as it gets.
|
| I'm not convinced that's the case. I mean, yeah, I buy
| Heinz to go with fries or on my beyond burger, but for a
| brief time I made my own ketchup using a very simple recipe
| I found on a youtube channel but substituting my own spice
| blend and it was _amazing_. In the end though my palette is
| not very picky and my inherent laziness won out.
|
| So since I know ketchup can be better than Heinz, I have to
| expect that there is in fact a fancy branded ketchup out
| there that is.
| Nullabillity wrote:
| Curious, here in Sweden I'd say Heinz is pretty close to
| the bottom of the supermarket ketchup totem pole, while
| Coke/Pepsi have their usual near-duopoly.
| dagw wrote:
| _Sweden I 'd say Heinz is pretty close to the bottom of
| the supermarket ketchup totem pole_
|
| Really? I'd say it's nr 2 after Felix.
| s5300 wrote:
| Perhaps it's a regional thing, but there are definitely
| places where Red-Gold usage comes close to Heinz. I'd still
| say Heinz _is_ dominant in said regions, but Red Gold does
| see usage, and I don 't think it's just because of a price
| difference.
|
| Personally, I like Red Gold on fries more than Heinz.
| Couldn't explain why very easily as I'm not one to use food
| terms. Maybe a bit more acidic?
| jcpham2 wrote:
| Tiptree from England, it's on Amazon we do have preferences
| I put Ketchup on my Catsup
| smsm42 wrote:
| There are niche ketchups. I buy them from time to time -
| since regular ones (including Heinz) have too high sugar
| content, and also I don't like the taste of Heinz one. So
| yes, there are different ketchups - and there are different
| soft drinks too, by the way.
|
| Whole Foods has over 10 brands of ketchup:
| https://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/search?text=ketchup
| including their own "365" label. It suggests to me if
| everybody were buying Heinz, they probably wouldn't bother
| doing their private label?
| shakil wrote:
| In India, and stretching into the Indian diaspora
| worldwide, Maggi Hot and Sweet sauce became extremely
| popular, and for some things such as samosas you can almost
| never use the regular Heinz ketchup - it has to be paired
| with Maggi Hot and Sweet.
| r00fus wrote:
| I haven't had Heinz on my table for years and I have young
| kids.
| biztos wrote:
| In Europe it's pretty common to have non-Heinz ketchup, of
| which there are many[0] kinds[1]. Even in America, where
| Heinz is super popular, I can remember eating other[2]
| ketchups as far back as the 1980's. And nowadays even my
| supermarket has fancy ketchups here in rural California,
| though that may be a CA thing.
|
| 0: https://hungarianmeatmarket.com/product/univer-ketchup/
|
| 1: https://www.google.com/search?q=dutch+catsup&ie=UTF-8&oe
| =UTF...
|
| 2: https://www.delmonte.com/products/tomatoes/condiments/ke
| tchu...
| qw wrote:
| The same applies to Norway. The most popular ketchup is
| not even Heinz, but a national brand
|
| https://meny.no/varer/middagstilbehor/ketchup-og-
| sennep/ketc...
| stolsvik wrote:
| Idun Ketchup FTW! Their new unsweetened variant, also
| with less salt and no preservatives, is pretty good and
| should be export material!
| Scoundreller wrote:
| Heinz hurt itself a little bit when they stopped making
| it with Canadian tomatoes and shut down a plant here,
| then a (US-based!) competitor (French's) grabbed some
| market-share at the low end with a Canadian-based
| product.
|
| https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/french-s-heinz-ketchup-
| leam...
| gscho wrote:
| I much prefer French's and this news article makes it
| taste even better!
| xemoka wrote:
| Perhaps not fancy, but French's ketchup is much better, at
| least in Canada. Less sweet, more tomato flavour.
| mustacheemperor wrote:
| Bit of a food snob here, I usually buy a "fancy"
| alternative to Heinz even if it's just the Annie's Organic
| bottle that's also mass-manufactured but to me has a richer
| vegetable taste and less saccharine sweetness to it. Heinz
| tastes a bit too much like HFCS-sweetened tomato frosting
| to me.
| vinylkey wrote:
| For anyone interested, this is a pretty interesting read
| about Ketchup and Heinz:
|
| https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2004/09/06/the-ketchup-
| co...
| boulos wrote:
| To add to dragonwriter's response, I raise you Sir
| Kensington's [1]. They're popular in San Francisco (used at
| Super Duper Burgers, for example) and available at Whole
| Foods and on Good Eggs.
|
| Even Heinz offers its own organic variant [2], but IIRC
| it's not particularly different from the regular.
|
| Finally, the category also includes tomato "jam" (and some
| might include tomato chutney), tomato-based BBQ sauces, and
| even tomato-based salsa (commonly used for egg dishes in
| place of ketchup).
|
| [1] https://www.sirkensingtons.com/product/ketchup
|
| [2] https://www.heinz.com/product/00013000008990
| hyperbovine wrote:
| 3) Thanks to us all being fed a steady diet of Heinz
| ketchup since we were in the womb, all other forms of
| ketchup taste wrong.
| jjav wrote:
| > There are no Fancy Dijon Ketchups. The food snobs don't
| have an artisan brand they like better; Heinz is as good as
| it gets.
|
| Sure there are. There's lots of alternative ketchups both
| on the health scale (less or no high fructose corn syrup)
| and taste scale (spicier, smokier, you name it).
|
| I use ketchup semi-regularly but haven't bought the Heinz
| type in ages (primarily to avoid so much fructose, but it's
| also fun to experiment with the different flavors).
| jonahrd wrote:
| Just an anecdotal response:
|
| In Quebec there is a pretty proud history of a much
| different style of ketchup, which is much sweeter with
| bigger chunks of tomatoes.
|
| It's not uncommon to see traditional-style ketchup options
| in restaurants and at grocery stores.
| kelnos wrote:
| I grew up on Heinz, but nowadays it tastes overly processed
| and heavy (and too sweet) to me. I'll usually get Annie's
| if it's available. I'll still eat Heinz if that's what's
| there, but I don't prefer it.
| throwawayboise wrote:
| Hunt's, and Red Gold are two larger brands that I see
| frequently.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > There are no Fancy Dijon Ketchups.
|
| Yeah, there are. Lots, actually.
|
| > The food snobs don't have an artisan brand they like
| better
|
| Sure, they do (lots of them--as with mustards contrasted
| with basic French's yellow, plenty of different _styles_
| --for different foodies, some that are refinements of the
| mass market style, e.g., Annie's Organics entry, but lots
| that go with more distinct flavor, especially spice,
| profiles; Maya Kaimal Spicy Ketchup would be an example in
| this category.) What there might not be is a Grey Poupon
| equivalent, a succesfully mass-marketed mass-appeal entry
| _brand_ to the not-the-basic-thing segment.
| zarzavat wrote:
| The fancy Dijon ketchup never tastes better though. It
| just tastes different, and sometimes worse.
|
| Heinz has had decades and armies of food scientists and
| tasters to dial in their recipe. The only way to compete
| with that is to make a ketchup that is less appealing to
| the average person but more appealing to some niche
| subset of people (e.g. crank up or down the acidity or
| sweetness).
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > The fancy Dijon ketchup never tastes better though.
|
| To your taste, sure. For lots of people, the same thing
| is true of dijon (and other not-French's-yellow) mustard.
|
| OTOH, plenty of people disagree with you on that, which
| is why there are established, succesful--if individually
| mostly niche--alternatives.
|
| > Heinz has had decades and armies of food scientists and
| tasters to dial in their recipe.
|
| So did French's. The hard part of getting broad reach on
| alternatives isn't making some alternative that enough
| people will like if they try, but getting enough people
| over the activation energy threshold to try. Grey
| Poupon's breakout marketing campaign in the 80s did that
| for mustard; there hasn't been an equivalent for ketchup.
|
| And, sure, that probably doesn't unseat the dominant
| player, but that's not what thr uothread discussion of
| "dijon" alternatives was about.
| smsm42 wrote:
| > he only way to compete with that is to make a ketchup
| that is less appealing to the average person but more
| appealing to some niche subset of people
|
| You sound like it's some kind of bizzarre weird strategy
| that only few insane weirdos would try. As in fact that's
| how most of the food brands (by number, not by volume)
| would work - find your niche and serve it. And not only
| food, of course. Some produce average food for "average
| person", some produce excellent food for people that
| value it. That's how it has always been.
| ww520 wrote:
| That's very interesting background info.
|
| I didn't realize it take up to 3 years to make the sauce.
| It's because they need to ferment some of the stuff?
| ksec wrote:
| Yes they need to sit in some barrels for aging. Similar to
| making of cheese like parmesan cheese. And they are still
| done in a very very old fashion way. ( For good reason )
| The only process that is modern is quality control,
| packaging and bottling.
| vertis wrote:
| The don't change your recipe is certainly true. I remember
| Arnott's (Australia) has a disastrous backlash[1] when they
| tried to change the flavour of BBQ and Pizza Shapes.
|
| [1]: https://www.smh.com.au/business/consumer-
| affairs/arnotts-sha...
| AdmiralAsshat wrote:
| Interestingly, when ATK did a tasting panel on Sriracha
| sauces, they slightly preferred the Kikkoman brand over the
| original:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBLvKe9vors
| enominezerum wrote:
| My first exposure to Sriracha was the 2014 lawsuit where a
| plant in California was causing issues.
|
| Queue meeting my now asian wife whose family uses Sriracha in
| near about everything and it has basically replaced ketchup.
|
| Matter of fact they use it so much it changed MY spice
| tolerance such that we now have Sriracha Ketchup instead of
| Heinz. We even went the extra bit and replaced American Mayo
| with Kewpie mayo.
|
| American condiments can stand to learn from global
| condiments...
| [deleted]
| clairity wrote:
| > "Queue meeting my now asian wife..."
|
| wow, what was she before she was asian? (i kid!)
|
| i like sriracha, but i don't really get the craze,
| personally preferring sambal oelek (garlic chili sauce) and
| tapatio more.
| jaywalk wrote:
| > Queue meeting my now asian wife
|
| What was she before she turned Asian?
| jacobriis wrote:
| _Queue meeting_
|
| Cue meeting. We have to trie to do better.
|
| https://grammarist.com/usage/cue-queue/
| [deleted]
| fencepost wrote:
| _Cue meeting. We have to trie to do better._
|
| Watch out for a heap of downvotes.
| [deleted]
| shp0ngle wrote:
| Funny thing is in Vietnam you cannot really see Sriracha
| anywhere, because what's the point, the local chili are
| cheaper and better, what is the point of importing from US.
| xxpor wrote:
| I had assumed it's a general style of sauce though. I
| wouldn't expect the Vietnamese to import the American
| stuff, the sauce originated there and a Vietnamese
| immigrant brought it to the US. Is that not the case?
| lovich wrote:
| The sauce originated from Si Racha thailand. The original
| sauces are runnier, more like water than the american
| sriracha
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Si_Racha
| adventured wrote:
| > American condiments can stand to learn from global
| condiments
|
| There's no such thing as American condiments, unless you
| pretend the US is homogeneous (which it isn't remotely
| close to being). Maybe you kinda sorta could have
| pigeonholed the US like that 40-50 years ago. I don't think
| it's possible to label-standardize as it pertains to food
| in the US any longer (as though there's American food at
| this point), given the diversity in the US now and the
| large variance between regions, states, cities.
| unholythree wrote:
| No, I'm pretty sure it's getting worse. Anecdotally about
| 10 years ago when out-of-towners would ask where the
| closest Starbucks was, I'd proudly say there's just the
| one at the convention center. Now my mid sized city is
| infested with them despite already having a few regional
| chains and dozens of independent shops.
| thatcat wrote:
| America has a fairly homogeneous culture though. There
| are chains of franchises everywhere and many monopolies
| in the supply chains. There are is also an independent
| element, but let's not pretend that the homogenized
| choice isn't extremely popular.
| skeletal88 wrote:
| I am happy that we don't have Starbucks here. We have our
| own cafe chains. We don't need the us franchises to
| colonize the globe, we want local variety.
| iammisc wrote:
| In terms of cuisine, America is not really homogeneous. I
| mean, even a relatively moderate change from LA to SF
| means a change from heavy Hispanic influence to more
| Asian. Or a change from SF to Portland and you get a lot
| more traditional 'American' (which really means
| Northeastern, since the South, Southwest, and California
| is very different foodwise), but with a heavy 'natural'
| emphasis.
|
| Certainly, we have access to the same stuff, and many of
| us enjoy similar food, but I mean, Californians put
| avocado on everything, and you're not going to get Gumbo
| in Seattle.
|
| America has a national food culture that kind of exists
| on top of the local one.
| jjav wrote:
| > unless you pretend the US is homogeneous
|
| The US is (sadly) extremely homogeneous because it's the
| same few dozen brands that are ever-present everywhere.
| You can be air-dropped blindfolded into a strip mall
| anywhere in the country and there will be no way to tell
| where you are since it'll be the exact same chain-food.
|
| > Maybe you kinda sorta could have pigeonholed the US
| like that 40-50 years ago.
|
| Strange comment because 40-50 years ago it was quite the
| opposite. A few nationwide-chains existed already, but
| every town had a local flavor and nearly all restaurants
| were local. It was fun to travel town to town
| experiencing the differences. Today it's the same
| everywhere. Very dull.
| HWR_14 wrote:
| And like Heinz Ketchup (although apparently it's a regional
| thing, Hunts is popular in some places and there are other
| versions), the statement "without a trademark" makes no
| sense. Like, neither company owns "Sriracha" or "Ketchup",
| but both definitely have trademarks on the other parts of
| their packaging and names.
|
| And Heinz has a Sriracha Ketchup.
|
| >. Once you factor in capacity planning and _sourcing_ of
| quality chillies
|
| I believe Huy Fong (as of 2016) and Tobasco (As of much
| earlier) run their own pepper farms. Tobasco takes those
| three years to age in vinegar. Siratcha does not have an
| aging process I am aware of, it goes straight through the
| commercial kitchen and into bottles.
| The-Bus wrote:
| > I've no idea of the history of say Tabasco
|
| The Tabasco story is really interesting and it's essentially
| the Sriracha of the late 1800s and early 1900s. Tabasco is a
| private, family-owned company. They still grow all the seeds
| for its pepper crops on the same island they did in the 1800s
| [1]. Some family members were friends with Teddy Roosevelt [2].
| I remember hearing, but cannot find a source right now, that
| Roosevelt like the sauce so much he had it included in military
| ration kits.
|
| [1] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tabasco-hot-sauce-
| industry-60-m... [2]
| https://www.theodorerooseveltcenter.org/Blog/Item/John%20Ave...
| clav3 wrote:
| If you're interested in the Tabasco story check this out
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xnaj9ULhwqU I found it
| interesting.
| taf2 wrote:
| I realize they may not advertise but they also sell through
| resellers... who at least from my google searching [1] do appear
| to advertise this product (delicious as it is) very heavily...
|
| [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=sriracha
| boomboomsubban wrote:
| The part that strikes me is that they still have the same 10
| distributors since the 80's.
|
| The "local Chinese restaurant" is a much more franchised thing
| than most people are aware of, and those 10 distributors meant it
| already ended up throughout the country and allowed everyone to
| try it for free. This is likely the secret to it's success.
|
| The only similar product I can think of is Mountain Dew Baja
| Blast. Though it did get some advertising, by automatically being
| available in every Taco Bell it became a minor craze. It's not an
| easily reproducible concept though.
| gjs278 wrote:
| baja blast is just a mixture of mountain dew and blue powerade
| shbooms wrote:
| according the same thread, they also had a sole jalepeno
| supplier all the way up until 2017 when "the partners had a
| falling out. Huy Fong now sources from 3 suppliers."
| hhmc wrote:
| >The "local Chinese restaurant" is a much more franchised thing
| than most people are aware of
|
| This is interesting (but also makes sense) -- do you happen to
| have an article?
| devb wrote:
| This is a good read on it:
|
| https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/10/13/cookas-tale
| dang wrote:
| Discussed at the time!
|
| _The Kitchen Network: America's Underground Chinese
| Restaurant Workers_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8425246 - Oct 2014 (39
| comments)
| ruddct wrote:
| Another good one, on the fruit/veg supply side of things:
| https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-fruits-and-veggies-are-
| so-c...
| hhmc wrote:
| https://outline.com/rsHPec
| jrochkind1 wrote:
| wow, what a fascinating article!
| dang wrote:
| Also discussed at the time!
|
| _Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11981063 - June 2016
| (237 comments)
| showerst wrote:
| There's a great documentary on this --
| http://www.thesearchforgeneraltso.com/
|
| There are immigrant associations that will take recent
| Chinese immigrants, train them to cook the US staples, help
| them find a new "territory", and finance the restaurant. It's
| really fascinating.
| spoonjim wrote:
| I don't think the "franchise" is literal in terms of a
| royalty -- it's just that the vast majority of Chinese
| restaurants order their supplies from the same few
| distributors yielding largely similar results. It's why you
| pretty much know what you're getting when you go to a new
| Chinese restaurant in a way that you don't at a new Italian
| restaurant.
| bluedino wrote:
| I came across a web site that looked like it was written in
| Geocities-style, it was a chinese food distributor and they
| basically sold a chinese restaurant in a box kit. All the
| food to make the menu, all the accessories like boxes and
| fortune cookies...
| bencollier49 wrote:
| Same deal with Patak's sauces in Indian restaurants in the
| UK nowadays, unfortunately.
| sidlls wrote:
| We have those sauces in jars available on the shelf at my
| local grocer (Safeway, Bay Area, US). Bastardized or not,
| they are tasty.
| bencollier49 wrote:
| Apparently it's the pastes which are used:
|
| https://www.theasiancookshop.co.uk/bulk-pataks-balti-
| curry-p...
|
| It's a shame, because a lot of the dishes have lost a lot
| of their subtlety and especially regional variation.
| sidlls wrote:
| Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. They are a bit bland
| and more salty as compared with properly done from-
| scratch versions of the sauces, marinades, and sautes,
| but they're not too bad.
| kenneth wrote:
| As an expat who lives in China and loves Chinese food, it
| makes me incredibly sad that in the Western world Chinese
| food is basically greasy bland cheap garbage generally
| inspired by 19th century Cantonese immigration (chop suey,
| fried rice, and various stir frys, plus uniquely American
| inventions like orange chicken or fortune cookies). What
| happened to the amazing food of Taiwan, Hunan, Sichuan,
| Shaanxi? There's so much better Chinese food than what
| you'll find at your average American Chinese restaurant.
|
| It's getting a bit better but there's still a long way to
| go even in the cities that have more Chinese options (NYC,
| west coast cities)
| alliao wrote:
| what you're witness isn't actually Chinese food it's the
| melting pot of multiculturalism in action. Just like
| curry in UK, General Tso's chicken is now part of the US
| identity. New comers will bring new forks but the old
| dare I say classics are here to stay.
| grillvogel wrote:
| why is it sad that most of the chinese restaurants in
| america cater to american tastes? american style chinese
| is a valid food cuisine, and lots of people like that. if
| you want authentic food those retaurants exist as well.
| are the "american cuisine" restaurants in china exact
| reproductions of american food?
| canada_dry wrote:
| > There's so much better Chinese food than what you'll
| find at your average American Chinese restaurant.
|
| One of the reasons I love living in Toronto: its many
| ethnic neighbourhoods from just about every nationality
| on earth e.g. Hungarian, Vietnamese, Iranian, Jamaican.
| Perhaps only matched by NYC, their local restaurants are
| 100% authentic to the point of importing fresh
| ingredients almost daily.
| 41209 wrote:
| Do you have any tips on getting real Chinese food in
| America. I was planning on living in Asia later this
| year, but it doesn't look like the pandemic will be under
| control by then
| hallway_monitor wrote:
| Go to a homey, family-owned Chinese restaurant when they
| are not busy. Some have a separate menu for more
| authentic cooking; you can ask about that and if not,
| just tell them you want to try authentic regional dishes.
| I have had good luck with this even in the midwest. Make
| sure to tell them how adventurous you are - will you eat
| feet, intestines, head-on fish etc.
| azurezyq wrote:
| Just talk to first generation Chinese immigrants. I have
| to say American Chinese food and authentic Chinese food
| are belong to different categories and serve different
| sets of people.
| dfxm12 wrote:
| That's a pretty broad question, especially if you live in
| an area without an established Chinatown. If you do, it
| should be easy enough to go there and scope it out. As
| far as restaurants go, don't be afraid to ask the servers
| about this. You could also seek out specific dishes. I
| like to look for a place that has dry friend green beans
| (or gan bian si ji dou), chongqing chicken, three cup
| chicken, congee, dandan noodles or mapo tofu on the menu.
| Also, don't just look for a "Chinese restaurant", look
| for a "dim sum restaurant", a "hand drawn noodle
| restaurant" or a "Sichuan restaurant", etc.
|
| If you can't find a decent restaurant, you could try to
| make stuff on your own. Search foursquare for "Asian
| supermarket", it will likely carry real Chinese
| ingredients even if it is primarily Vietnamese or Korean.
| As far as what to cook, I think
| https://omnivorescookbook.com/ always comes up with
| something pretty good. I also swear by the Mission
| Chinese cookbook. While some of those recipes aren't
| exactly authentic, they are close enough (and the author
| explains the ways they differ, like they have a recipe
| for kung pao pastrami - you're not going to find pastrami
| in China, but the kung pao part is pretty close).
|
| China is also a huge place that has many regional
| variations. Just like BBQ in Texas is different from BBQ
| in Eastern North Carolina, it's hard to say what is or
| isn't authentic in terms of Chinese cuisine, or what is
| authentic to a particular regions, etc. I'm sure they're
| arguing about it over there, too.
| jrochkind1 wrote:
| Sichuan seems pretty popular in the USA these days.
|
| In the medium-sized city where I live, there is a
| standard American Chinese place by a university which is
| frankly not very good even for American Chinese food, but
| was owned by people from sichuan and would make off menu
| sichuan dishes for immigrant students. But they noticed
| non-immigrant Americans ordering them too, and wisely
| noticed the general trend going on, and the same owners
| up a different place a few miles away with actual sichuan
| food and prices 2x+ higher, which has been very
| successful. :)
|
| In Philadelphia there's also the popular Han Dynasty
| chain of sichuan places.
|
| I'd imagine even the places with food closer to "actual"
| sichuan food, if they are popular with non-Chinese
| people, have "Americanized" to some extent. I couldn't
| say as they are my only exposure to it! But I know
| sometimes I get something where the flavors/textures are
| just TOO different than what I'm used to, and I just
| don't like it!
| rattray wrote:
| Have you found a place for good Hainanese Chicken Rice in
| the US? Or good Taiwanese?
| volkl48 wrote:
| NYC (+ metro area) at least has a number of places doing
| those things.
|
| I'm not exactly qualified to judge their authenticity
| (although I've been taken by a Taiwanese acquaintance to
| more than one in the past - no names, sorry), but a lot
| of them are in immigrant communities where the primary
| customers seem to be people of those ethnic backgrounds,
| not "average Americans".
| boomboomsubban wrote:
| I don't, I read about it nearly twenty years ago and my
| attempts at searching for it again can't get past the actual
| franchises like Panda Express.
|
| Parts of it are incredibly obvious though, things like
| interior design, the Chinese Zodiac place mats, fortune
| cookies and Sriracha.
| ngcazz wrote:
| I've always presumed as much. Chinese restaurants, in
| Portugal at least, are practically indistinguishable from one
| another.
| bigbillheck wrote:
| Jennifer 8. Lee wrote a book about it:
| http://fortunecookiechronicles.com
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| I see it as a table condiment in many mainstream restaurants,
| these days.
| CalRobert wrote:
| Tragically, I stopped being able to get this sauce a couple years
| ago when the EU blocked imports due to one of the ingredients
| (I'm struggling to find a source atm though).
|
| It was magic! It made Irish cuisine bearable.
|
| The alternatives - Flying Goose, etc. are oversweet, underspiced,
| and dreadful.
| Deradon wrote:
| Here in Germany I can still get it in almost every supermarket.
| So I don't know if it is the EU blocking imports.
| CaptainZapp wrote:
| In Switzerland you can get it too.
|
| Given that food laws need to be aligned with the EU I also
| don't believe that the block is an EU wide thing.
| sakarisson wrote:
| Same in Finland, which is known for being very by the book
| when it comes to EU regulations.
| Milner08 wrote:
| You're probably seeing Flying Goose brand, which is very
| similar in appearance (bottle, etc) but not the same taste.
| sakarisson wrote:
| Good guess! I checked in my fridge, and it does indeed
| have a flying goose logo.
| CalRobert wrote:
| It seems to be a recent change:
| https://newsbeezer.com/swedeneng/sriracha-sauce-can-no-
| longe...
| bzzzt wrote:
| Is it the original from Huy Fong though? In the Netherlands
| there are a few different variants of the sauce for sale, but
| the original is only sold through smaller shops.
|
| I like this one, packaging looks almost the same: https://sta
| tic.ah.nl/static/product/AHI_43545239353338303138...
| Deradon wrote:
| You're right. What I've got is NOT the original. I was
| misled by the almost identical look, wow. (got a
| FlyingGooseProduct here)
| papito wrote:
| See, this is the nanny state they bitch about over here in the
| US :)
|
| But hey, at least you have real cheese. American cheese is not
| cheese.
| randompwd wrote:
| > It made Irish cuisine bearable
|
| Wow, what condescension.
|
| Just dump some sugar and processed cheese on your food and you
| should feel right at home!
| CalRobert wrote:
| Got Supermacs for that :-)
|
| In fairness, Ireland has fantastic cheese, among other
| things, but spice is hard to come by.
| CalRobert wrote:
| I found a source!
|
| https://newsbeezer.com/swedeneng/sriracha-sauce-can-no-longe...
|
| Some discussion at
| https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/k3udmu/huy_fongs_sr...
| namdnay wrote:
| I don't think it's a question of it being blocked due to the
| additive, it's just that no-one has gone through the hassle
| of declaring the additive and doing the tests to show that
| the quantities ingested will be below levels etc. Maybe the
| demande for that specific sauce isn't strong enough, and
| importers prefer just to switch to a similar brand with no
| sulfites
| Ndymium wrote:
| Interestingly, the Huy Fong version of sriracha is no longer
| available in Finland due to it containing certain sulfites that
| are not allowed in spice sauces.[1] There are several competing
| sauces available, though. I remember wondering why it had
| disappeared from the shelves and only finding this one news
| article about it.
|
| [1] https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-11251204 (in Finnish)
| killingtime74 wrote:
| Sulfites give me head aches
| hackermailman wrote:
| No ad spend but I see Sriracha shirts around often
| bszupnick wrote:
| Maybe because of the "no trademark" addendum?
| na85 wrote:
| Proof that, despite what certain well-known HN users will so
| vociferously swear, advertising is not essential to the modern
| economy.
| dalbasal wrote:
| That's quite a stretch.
|
| Existence proof for a particular isn't hard to come by. Lots of
| companies (including google & facebook, ironically) blew up
| without sales or marketing playing a significant role.
|
| The "modern economy" OTOH, is big. Advertising (either selling
| or buying) a core piece of the business model of many of the
| largest companies. Everything that touches them touches
| advertising and everything that touches them is a massive part
| of the economy.
|
| This might suggest that advertising needn't be essential, not
| that it isn't. Wikipedia & Linux might suggest that IP and
| shareholders needn't be necessary to the modern economy. But IP
| and shareholders certainly are, currently, necessary to the way
| it works.
| killingtime74 wrote:
| You realise marketing and advertising are two different
| concepts right
| tpetry wrote:
| The sauce business started in the early 1980s, almost 40 years
| ago. A lot has changed in the last 40 years. You wouldn't even
| be able to replicate this today because of food health rules.
| shoto_io wrote:
| How do you derive such a conclusion with n = 1?
| hervature wrote:
| It is a proof by contradiction. Essential meaning any
| successful business necessarily needs ad spend. Here is an
| example proving that statement false.
| shoto_io wrote:
| ok, fair. So I guess the statement has to be changed to
| "Almost every successful business needs ad spend"?
| na85 wrote:
| I think it's "Bad or insufficiently-differentiated
| products need ad spend".
|
| Make better products.
| austhrow743 wrote:
| This is very confusing. Is your definition of "the modern
| economy" one in which sauce is sold?
| rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote:
| Is... there no sauce sold in your version of the modern
| economy?
| austhrow743 wrote:
| I don't have a strong concept of what "the modern economy"
| is and would only see myself using it within a context that
| makes it clear im comparing it to some non modern economy.
| Which I dont think would ever be sauce.
| rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote:
| I think people here are using the term to describe the
| present-day economy.
|
| In that sense, fax machines and beepers aren't really
| part of the modern economy, but hot sauces very much are.
| JohnWhigham wrote:
| I don't have a problem with "dumb" advertising. It's when a
| profile is kept on me that a line is crossed.
| Alupis wrote:
| Not quite. Sriracha is probably the most marketed sauce in
| existence... just not advertised directly from the "original"
| manufacturer.
|
| Fast food chains, chip companies, beef jerky, almonds, other
| seasonings and more all spend a considerable amount advertising
| their products include Sriracha.
|
| Sriracha's popularity mostly began when these companies started
| to introduce products with it to everyday people. It's not like
| Sriracha didn't exist prior to 2010...
|
| I would be surprised if Huy Fong Foods, the company behind the
| popular US variation, _didn 't_ have something to do with the
| initial deals that got all this going. Clever marketing,
| indeed.
| rapind wrote:
| To a marketer everything is marketing. Make a good product?
| Clearly that's marketing...
|
| I wonder how much they spent on not spending? /s
| moftz wrote:
| Sriracha isn't trademarked in any way. Anyone can make it and
| sell it in a similar bottle. Unless some restaurant
| specifically mentions Huy Fong or shows the rooster logo, the
| sriracha they are using is probably a generic version made
| from garlic and chilis.
| csunbird wrote:
| Advertising is essential, you need people to know about your
| product somehow. People will not buy something they do not
| know, especially when there is competition.
|
| The methods that are in use in current times on the other
| hand...
| na85 wrote:
| >Advertising is essential, you need people to know about your
| product somehow.
|
| TFA explicitly contradicts your opinion.
| sremani wrote:
| Try imitating exception to rules at your own peril.
| redis_mlc wrote:
| It's not proof, it's an exception.
|
| Also, Sriracha can be litigious:
|
| https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/05/sriracha-maker-loses-lawsuit...
| thaumasiotes wrote:
| > Also, Sriracha can be litigious
|
| Not in the context here - that's not a suit over IP. The
| basis of the suit is "we overpaid you by $1.4 million, and
| you refused to return our money". There is nothing strange or
| even questionable about such a suit, nor is there any reason
| to view it as an indicator of undesirable practices.
| modeless wrote:
| > There is nothing strange or even questionable about such
| a suit
|
| When the final result is an award of $14 million against
| them _plus_ $10 million in punitive damages, by unanimous
| jury verdict, it is absolutely questionable and potentially
| an indicator of undesirable practices.
| contravariant wrote:
| Guess this goes to show how much trust the U.S. has in
| its own legislative system.
| gradschoolfail wrote:
| Assuaging FOMO is a need, that is, essential to the sanity of
| advertisers, and indirectly, investors. I don't know if the
| sanity of some of the more well-fed people in the economy is
| essential to the economy...
| midjji wrote:
| Well its just tasty...
| modeless wrote:
| "No trademark" is misleading. They have trademarks. Without them
| I expect exact clones would take their sales. The bottle and logo
| are quite distinctive and trademarked. The thing they didn't
| trademark is the name Sriracha.
| mcjiggerlog wrote:
| In the thread:
|
| > 9/ Interestingly, Tran never trademarked "Sriracha" (he did
| trademark the green cap and rooster, though).
| patchtopic wrote:
| perhaps because it is the name of the style of Thai chili
| sauce he is making, named after the Thai town.
| nemetroid wrote:
| The thread is fine, but the HN headline is editorialized in a
| misleading way.
| ginko wrote:
| Also the thread mentioned they've protected the squeeze bottle
| with green cap design which I think only applies to the US. For
| instance in Europe most Asia stores stock 'goose brand'
| sriracha which apart from the animal look almost identical[1].
| Got burned by that myself a while ago when the whole sriracha
| craze started online and I mistakenly bought a bottle of the
| goose brand stuff.
|
| [1] https://images-na.ssl-images-
| amazon.com/images/I/61aZqqvP7WL...
| flemhans wrote:
| I thought that was the one!! What's the real thing like then?
| _ph_ wrote:
| Yes, here in Germany I only have seen the "goose" branded
| sriracha sauce. I quite like it, but of course, I don't know
| what I might be missing out.
| felixg3 wrote:
| Fellow German here who gets angry about the Flying Goose
| brand whenever I go into an Asian store: It's not the same.
| Huy Fong Foods is much better and has much fewer additives.
| La1n wrote:
| > has much fewer additives.
|
| Goose:
|
| chili 61%, sugar syrup, salt, garlic, water, acids: E260,
| E330, monosodium glutamate (E621), xanthan gum E415,
| potassium sorbate (E202).
|
| Huy Fong:
|
| Chili, sugar, salt, garlic, distilled vinegar, potassium
| sorbate (E202), sodium bisulfite (E222), and xanthan gum
| (E415)
|
| Seems very similar, distilled vinegar is E260, and E330
| is citric acid.
| naturalauction wrote:
| American living in the UK here, try buying the huy fong
| brand on Amazon and see if you like it. I think it's far
| superior.
| jonquark wrote:
| It seems to be illegal in the EU+UK because it contains
| E222: citation: https://www.hot-headz.com/huy-fong-
| sriracha-chilli-sauce
|
| I'm not saying you can't buy it on Amazon and I don't
| know enough about nutrition to know why E222 was banned.
| rendall wrote:
| Here in Finland I can buy proper Huy Fong Sriracha in the
| grocery store. A few different flavors and types, too.
|
| Edit: I am _wrong_ on the internet. I just checked my
| bottle in the fridge and it is GoTan [1] Sriracha, from
| the Netherlands. With a green cap, too. I feel kinda
| ripped off, tbh.
|
| [1] https://www.go-tan.com
| saimiam wrote:
| Green cap Sriracha in India means it has Mayo. Is it the
| same for you?
| acjacobson wrote:
| It's not in Germany. I can buy it at my local Asian
| grocery.
| ginko wrote:
| Are you sure it's illegal in the EU? Pretty much any wine
| sold adds sulfites to stop the fermentation process.
| AFAIK all that's required is that they're labelled as
| containing sulfites.
|
| See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfite_food_and_bever
| age_addi...
| dagw wrote:
| The way it works is that they impose a default ban, and
| then you can apply for an exemption for your specific
| product category. Wine has an exemption, sauces and
| condiments do not. Why the EU would quickly make sure
| wine got an exemption and wasn't impacted in any way, and
| not do the same for hot sauces is a mystery for the ages.
| zdragnar wrote:
| France, I would assume.
| lapnitnelav wrote:
| You can add Spain and Italy trailing behind.
| breakfastduck wrote:
| It's not
| simlan wrote:
| Tastes the same to me. If at all the goose brand is
| slightly less spicy by default. Thanks to covid did not
| have the chance to do a cross check lately...
| Slippery_John wrote:
| The goose brand is less spicy and is WAY sweeter. I had my
| family in the states send me some of the Huy Fong stuff
| because I couldn't stand the sweetness of the goose brand.
| codemusings wrote:
| Wow I never realized the "goose" one is the knock off.
| spoonjim wrote:
| "Sriracha" couldn't be trademarked because it is the name of
| the sauce. It's like someone trying to trademark "Kansas City
| style Barbeque Sauce" -- can't be done.
| harshbutfair wrote:
| Much like ugg boots are the name of the boots. Oh wait.
| https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-05/trademark-battle-
| for-...
| markdown wrote:
| You'd think so, but it happens all the times in the US, with
| American firms trademarking names of thinks from other
| languages.
| vasco wrote:
| I don't know much about trademark but I know of this company
| called Apple. Would Apple be blocked from trademarking it's
| name if it sold actual Apples instead of computers?
| Taniwha wrote:
| Apple spent years in court arguing with Apple music
| aranchelk wrote:
| This is true, but the situation was Apple (the computer
| company) moved into the music business with iTunes; Apple
| (the record company) was already long established. Apple
| (the record company) was the plaintiff trying to block
| Apple (the computer company).
|
| My (limited) knowledge is solely of US law, but different
| companies with the same trademark can coexist in
| different industries, e.g. Delta (the airline) and Delta
| (the faucet company).
| timpattinson wrote:
| and Delta, the power supply company
| philwelch wrote:
| And Delta Dental, the dental insurance provider.
| garmaine wrote:
| It happened twice actually. Apple (the record company)
| sued Apple (the computer company) back in the 80's. The
| judgement then was that the computer company could keep
| using their name so long as they never enter the music
| business. Then they released iPod & iTunes, and got sued
| again for breach of their court-mediated agreement. The
| record company won a settlement IIRC.
| [deleted]
| contravariant wrote:
| Presumably against Apple Records?
| aranchelk wrote:
| > Would Apple be blocked from trademarking it's name if it
| sold actual Apples instead of computers?
|
| Yes. In the US, if Apple sold apples, its name would be
| classified as descriptive and they would not have any
| exclusive right to that mark when selling apples. Other
| companies could also label their apples with "apple" and
| Apple could not stop them.
| andylynch wrote:
| This is also why kiwifruit are marketed as Zespri etc.
| blowski wrote:
| Good question, I'm always confused about trademark and
| copyright laws.
| athenot wrote:
| Apparently they can spell it in all uppercase and then it can
| be trademarked. Thinking of REALTOR(r)... which is as
| descriptive as it gets.
| spoonjim wrote:
| Well Realtor wasn't the name of the job before that brand.
| They were called estate agents.
| trappist wrote:
| Trademark treats this as a crime against the original producer.
| Pretending to be that producer to fool the consumer into buying
| your product is a crime against the buyer known as fraud. IANAL
| and I don't know whether in a legal environment with trademark
| that form of fraud is recognized as such, but it should be and
| I think it would be a superior solution to the problem
| trademark is meant to solve.
| dang wrote:
| OK, we've taken the trademark out of the title above. Now
| someone else will point out how they had a sales team and
| bought ads...
| cehrlich wrote:
| I'm not sure about America, but in Europe there are many
| imitations that also use the Sriracha name, similar looking
| bottle, etc.
| jxramos wrote:
| yep, those are over here too, and they're all underwhelming.
| I don't think I've actively purchased any, but somehow I've
| sampled many of them. Maybe at restaurants that cut corners,
| maybe at friends houses. All were subpar in my tastes.
| garmaine wrote:
| This is so ironic. I guess European brand and origin
| protectionism only applies to European brands?
| distances wrote:
| Only those with trade deals and registered GI in place
| obviously. I wouldn't mind if name sriracha would be some
| guarantee for origin and recipe, but alas, Thailand would
| of course need to demand that first.
|
| Note: I don't know much about sriracha so no idea if Thai
| people consider it to be a traditional local stuff or not.
| garmaine wrote:
| Why would Thailand need to demand that when it is a
| California invention?
|
| To be clear, there is no "Sriracha" sauce in Thailand. At
| best there is a spicy pepper and vinegar blend which some
| cuisine uses, but it's nothing like the California-made
| Sriracha sauce, and it is not called Sriracha (or Sri
| Racha) AFAIK.
|
| Where I live, a lot of SE Asian restaurants will give the
| original red dipping sauce for certain dishes which it is
| meant for, and it is nothing like Sriracha. Different
| pepper, different color, way sweeter, very little
| acidity.
|
| Sriracha as you know it is a Los Angeles invention by an
| intrepid culinary entrepreneur. It resembles actual Thai
| sauce about as much as Kraft "American cheese" [sic] does
| a good English cheddar. (Although unlike this comparison,
| Sriracha arguably improved on the original.)
| fragile_frogs wrote:
| Because the original sriracha sauce comes from Thailand:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sriracha
|
| > It resembles actual Thai sauce about as much as Kraft
| "American cheese" [sic] does a good English cheddar.
| (Although unlike this comparison, Sriracha arguably
| improved on the original.)
|
| Thai people hate the americanized version of sriracha, so
| I guess your comparison is right that Huy Fong Foods
| sriracha is like the Kraft "American cheese".
| distances wrote:
| I thought my disclaimer made it clear that I'm no
| authority in sriracha topics and don't know who, if
| anyone, has a credible claim on it.
| faichai wrote:
| Yeah, I bought one thinking it would be more or less the
| same. But surprisingly very far off. The original is like
| Heinz is to ketchup.
| bserge wrote:
| Heinz ketchup is pretty bad :D
| kenneth wrote:
| All ketchup is actually pretty bad. (Controversial
| opinion, European here who'll pick aioli over it any day)
| tj-teej wrote:
| Yeah, see Trader Joes Sriracha!
|
| https://kakaomart.com/products/trader-joes-sriracha-sauce-1-...
| sethd wrote:
| It doesn't seem to apply in this particular case, but it's also
| important to note that having a trademark is different from
| having a registered trademark.
| plank_time wrote:
| That's if you're happy with only 150M/yr. Thats not going to make
| a regular VC satisfied.
| reducesuffering wrote:
| That's a $3b company at today's typical P/S ratio valuations.
| I'm sure most VC's are satisfied with finding a $3b bagger.
| plank_time wrote:
| 20x revenues? It's not growing 100% YoY, so there's no way
| it's even 10x revenues.
| sdenton4 wrote:
| You know what will really satisfy a VC, though?
|
| A delicious bahn-mi with a side of fries and a small bucket of
| Sriracha.
| aix1 wrote:
| People eat fries with bahn mi?!?!?
| sdenton4 wrote:
| Well, I was specifically thinking of this place which,
| while not the most authentic, also has some amazing
| Sriracha-bottle patterned wallpaper. (...and great
| fries...)
|
| https://www.google.com/maps/place/Bun+Mee/@37.788165,-122.4
| 3...
| peteretep wrote:
| What kind of monster doesn't like fries?
| thehappypm wrote:
| Apparently, a sandwich with a side of fries is not cool.
| ehnto wrote:
| Was Sriracha started with VC?
|
| Regardless, there's a significant chunk of commerce between
| "mom and pop business" and VC powered ephemeral software
| unicorn. 150m a year is wildly successful by all accounts.
| CodeWriter23 wrote:
| Dude could not GAF about VC.
| mft_ wrote:
| Thought experiment: what sales level might it have hit with a
| sales team and a marketing budget?
| tomcooks wrote:
| Less than what they currently hit because of the underdog/indie
| take.
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