[HN Gopher] Circling-or cycling-the track at F1's famous Circuit...
___________________________________________________________________
Circling-or cycling-the track at F1's famous Circuit of the
Americas
Author : Tomte
Score : 74 points
Date : 2021-06-27 06:26 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (arstechnica.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (arstechnica.com)
| Qw3r7 wrote:
| Now go bike Source into Eau Rouge and let us know the difference!
| danburbridge wrote:
| I don't think they ride Eau Rouge, but Spa is sometimes used
| for some elite level Cyclocross:
| https://www.velonews.com/news/cyclocross/gallery-spa-francor...
| The grass bank climb is incredibly steep.
| bretthoerner wrote:
| I've done this once. It was OK, but at the end of the day it's
| like shutting down a highway and letting you bike on it. It's
| just a huge (from the POV of a cyclist) empty concrete road. I'd
| much rather bike around the actual city or do a trail through
| trees with some sights to see.
|
| Basically, it's all of the bad and boring aspects of driving
| excepts you're on a bike. But to me one of the best parts of
| biking is that you're not in a cage on a boring highway. It also
| has big "drive my truck to the gym to do a run" vibes since it's
| in the middle of nowhere.
|
| That said, turn 1 is a (fun) beast and being around a bunch of
| people excited to cycle is the best part.
| stefan_ wrote:
| For the Nurburgring, they have events and amateur races they
| put on:
|
| https://radamring.de/en/disciplines/24h-bike-race/
| epage wrote:
| I've not been yet but the draws for me are (1) the novelty and
| (2) an uninterrupted ride. There aren't many places you I've
| found to ride that isn't stop and go while also being safe. If
| only 360 wasn't suicide to ride.
| heyzeusalmighty wrote:
| May I suggest the Veloway across the street from the Lady
| Bird Johnson Wildflower Center?
| bretthoerner wrote:
| I hear you loud and clear, but South Walnut Creek is way
| better than this for uninterrupted riding, IMO.
|
| https://www.austintexas.gov/department/southern-walnut-
| creek...
| gameswithgo wrote:
| second the veloway, and mountain biking in austin is amazing
| and way less stressful
| ximm wrote:
| Note on typography: I know this is very common in the US, but I
| just cannot get used to em-dashes without spaces around them. I
| tried for ~30secs to figure out what "circling-or" and "cyciling-
| the" might be, until I realized that those dashes are meant to
| separate, not join. IMHO "circling - or cycling - the tack" is
| much easier to read.
| mrkwse wrote:
| Just to correct this point for anyone who doesn't follow the
| sport like the author:
|
| > This F1 fansite claims that cars can get to around 110 km/h
| (~70 mph) climbing this thing, which we very much did not
| achieve.
|
| The fansite link is stating that cars will brake to approach the
| sharp left-hander of turn 1 at 110km/h (~70mph) (site claims
| 85km/h on the apex), they'll do well in excess of that on the run
| up (300km/h+ on a flying lap or still comfortably beyond 200km/h
| from a standing start).
|
| With that out of the way it looks a great way of using a
| racetrack when cars aren't going around it, and I'll have to see
| if there's anything similar in the UK as a lot of racetracks will
| often have very pleasant surrounds and similarly undulating
| elevations for a bit of a challenge. (Brands Hatch strikes me as
| having a lot of potential for a particularly pleasant ride)
| InitialLastName wrote:
| I have a habit of looking at the calendars of the tracks F1
| goes to, just out of curiosity. Many of them have bicycle
| events in addition to car events, for exactly the reasons you
| would think (and mentioned): well-maintained roads with no
| cars, an interesting, undulating course, nice surroundings, and
| infrastructure for crowds.
|
| As an example, the 2020 UCI Road World championship was
| centered around the Imola track, and looking at their schedule
| they frequently have other cycling events.
| giobox wrote:
| The UCI Tour of California has been to Laguna Seca too, it
| was one of my least favorite bike race watching experiences.
|
| Professional road cycling generally has no barriers between
| spectators and the riders except in key areas or start/finish
| lines. A race track designed for cars of course has enormous
| run off areas and view blocking steel safety structures, tire
| walls for 150mph+ accidents - you don't need these for a bike
| race. The result is spectators generally sat far, far further
| away and the atmosphere is IMO much worse for it. I've had
| far more fun sat at the side of mountain stages with friends
| and a few beers.
|
| That said, of course it has the advantage you get to see the
| riders multiple times instead of just once as is case on most
| point to point stages, but easy access to live streams on
| phones/tablets makes the race so easy to follow at the
| roadside anyway.
| jandrese wrote:
| On the other hand maybe some separation between the
| cyclists and spectators isn't a terrible idea? Or at the
| very least require the spectators to have a least a minimal
| level of situational awareness.
|
| https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/27/sport/tour-de-france-crash-
| in...
| noarchy wrote:
| I'm not sure why you'd be getting downvoted. This year's
| Tour has been off to a very rocky start and fan
| interference sure hasn't helped.
| Luc wrote:
| > I'm not sure why you'd be getting downvoted.
|
| Because it's one of those comments that took 3s to write
| but would take a lot of effort to properly respond to,
| because it's 'not even wrong'.
| nradov wrote:
| The Clash triathlon series uses NASCAR tracks for their
| races. The scenery is a bit monotonous for athletes, but the
| bike courses are very safe and it gives spectators a better
| view of the action.
|
| https://www.triathlete.com/events/challenge-u-s-splits-
| with-...
| ProAm wrote:
| Aren't NASCAR tracks just ovals?
| gwoplock wrote:
| Most are but they sometimes go to others. About a month
| or 2 ago, NASCAR went to COTA. Some of the pictures in
| the article are from that race.
| pionar wrote:
| A lot of NASCAR tracks also have road courses. Indy,
| Daytona, Atlanta, a lot of the others.
| danburbridge wrote:
| I know that Castle Coombe has regular bicycle races - both
| criteriums and time trials. Pretty sure many of the circuits
| do, as its a good way to use the track and get some cash in, as
| they are often regulated in the number of motor races due to
| noise issues.
| chedabob wrote:
| Oulton Park has opened up to cyclists in the past, but doesn't
| look like there's anything except a duathlon scheduled for this
| year.
| sidewndr46 wrote:
| I don't ride a road bicycle for safety reasons, but I do live
| in Austin. One of the unexpected benefits of COTA is many
| bicyclists I've met have praised the bicycling events there.
| Some large bicycle races even use it as a starting point.
| c0nsumer wrote:
| There's a local racetrack here in Waterford, Michigan, US
| (north of Detroit) which hosts road bike races. It really is a
| great use, because it's a closed/non-open-to-public route which
| is generally well paved and free of the usual road debris
| (gravel, grass, car parts, glass).
|
| Details: https://www.flyingrhinocc.com/flying-rhino-race-series
|
| Bicycle road races are otherwise pretty complicated to put on,
| because they require a section of road that can be closed (eg:
| private industrial park / campus), sometimes work done to the
| road to clean it beforehand, etc. Using a race track has a lot
| of this done for you.
| nradov wrote:
| Circuit Gilles Villeneuve in Montreal is the track for the
| Canadian Grand Prix F1 race. It's usually open to cyclists, and
| when I was there a few years ago I rented one of those horrible
| Bixi bikes and made a few laps.
| logshipper wrote:
| Circuit Gilles Villeneuve is a fantastic place not just for
| cycling, but also running and roller-blading. I have been there
| for a couple of runs - the lanes are clearly demarcated, and
| the track is a real treat to run on.
| cmyr wrote:
| Yea the track in Montreal is open to cyclists for most of the
| season; along with the mountain itself it is one of the two
| main places in the city where cyclists tend to train.
| navbaker wrote:
| I had a blast doing this at Laguna Seca when I lived in Monterey.
| Highly recommended if you live near a track that opens up for
| bicycles!
| flyingfences wrote:
| I can only imagine how going down The Corkscrew must feel on a
| bicycle. What a blast!
| mikestew wrote:
| I raced that course years ago, having done a track day on a
| motorcycle in the past, and even on a bicycle The Corkscrew
| is surprisingly tight. Not anything like doing it on/in a
| motorized vehicle, but more effort than I thought it would
| be. Mainly because that hill can pile on some serious speed.
| Sadly, I don't think I have the Garmin file from that race
| and can't look up exactly how fast I'd go down that hill.
| crispyambulance wrote:
| I am sure it's fun, but there ARE actual velodromes in the US and
| they're much more interesting for spectators and cyclists than
| something that's set up for a car.
|
| A typical setup for a velodrome is 1/3 of a Kilometer oval with
| 30 degree banked turns (you don't even notice that angle at
| velodrome speed, 20+ mph, because you're pretty much
| perpendicular to the surface and riding on the circumference).
| This gives spectators a view of the whole track and it's setup
| for many different UCI-sanctioned events-- match-sprint, madison,
| time-trials, kerin/moto-pacing, etc.
|
| I wish there were more velodromes, it's a great sport and
| especially exciting to watch because all the action happens in a
| matter of minutes.
| doikor wrote:
| Velodrome and road cycling are completely different
| disciplines. This is like saying that why bother building
| purpose built track and field venue so you can do the 100m run
| there when just some random piece of tarmac would do (it works
| for marathons so obviously it is fine as a running surface)
| theli0nheart wrote:
| > _I am sure it 's fun, but there ARE actual velodromes in the
| US and they're much more interesting for spectators and
| cyclists than something that's set up for a car._
|
| Austin also has an "velodrome-like" track called the Veloway.
| It's outside, so it can get hot, and it's not an oval track,
| but it's very fun.
|
| > _The Veloway at Circle C Ranch Metropolitan Park was
| constructed in the early 90's and was the first facility of its
| kind in the United States. The Veloway is a 23' wide, 3.1 miles
| (5K) long bicycle tract that traverses the natural terrain.
| People travel from all over the metropolitan region to cycle
| here on a daily basis. The project was partially funded by a
| Texas Parks and Wildlife Grant._
|
| http://austintexas.gov/department/veloway
| publicola1990 wrote:
| Are there Keirin races in the US?
| kevin_thibedeau wrote:
| It's in the Olympics, so yes, minus the gambling.
| mikestew wrote:
| There are at the Redmond, WA Jerry Baker Velodrome. Schedule
| for an upcoming event, Keirin listed down a ways:
|
| (PDF link) https://velodrome.org/wp-
| content/uploads/2021/01/2021-Freds-...
| globular-toast wrote:
| 133 feet doesn't mean an awful lot without knowing the gradient.
| I looked it up and it's 11%. That is surprisingly high! Not
| surprised people struggle on it. For trained cyclists it's not
| massive but will definitely be tough if you're not ready for it.
| ben7799 wrote:
| It depends on where you live and how much you bicycle.
|
| 133ft @ 11% is a speed bump to most competitive or avid amateur
| cyclists. Where I live 1000ft of climbing per hour would be
| "hilly" but not mountainous. In mountainous regions you can
| very easily go on rides requiring climbing > 10,000ft over the
| course of a 3-5 hour ride.
|
| It is actually common to have bicycle races at car race tracks,
| I've done it. But on one of these F1 courses you'd race many
| many laps of the track and the officials would pull anyone out
| of the race if they fall behind to avoid anyone getting lapped
| and causing safety issues.
|
| If you ride that 133ft hill on the race track 10-30x in the
| course of a race then it starts to be annoying as there is
| going to be someone who attacks up the hill every lap, and if
| you fall off the back on the hill you'd stand a good chance of
| not catching up and being pulled from the race. A typical road
| race would have the lower categories doing around 8 laps of a
| track like COTA to get to a 25 mile race and the upper classes
| would be doing 30ish to get to a race closer to 100 miles.
| theli0nheart wrote:
| > _133ft @ 11% is a speed bump to most competitive or avid
| amateur cyclists._
|
| I've been a competitive-ish triathlete for five years, and I
| have to disagree.
|
| From "The Climbing Cyclist, Gradients and cycling, an
| introduction" [1]: * 0%: A flat road
| * 1-3%: Slightly uphill but not particularly
| challenging. A bit like riding into the wind. * 4-6%:
| A manageable gradient that can cause fatigue
| over long periods. * 7-9%: Starting to become
| uncomfortable for seasoned riders, and very
| challenging for new climbers. * 10%-15%: A painful
| gradient, especially if maintained for any
| length of time * 16%+: Very challenging for riders
| of all abilities. Maintaining this sort of
| incline for any length of time is very
| painful.
|
| [1]: http://theclimbingcyclist.com/gradients-and-cycling-an-
| intro... (archive: https://archive.is/Nx8HX)
| ska wrote:
| Agreed. GP mentions 1000ft/hour being "hilly" but thats
| something like 1000ft in 1000000ft at serious cyclist rate,
| so averaging 1%-ish. Obviously it's unlikely to be uniform,
| but doesn't really support the argument. If you are on a
| 10% grade for any length of tim you know it even if you are
| a pro.
| ben7799 wrote:
| The point was the hill is only 133 feet high, at 11% it's
| about 1000ft long, less than 1/4 mile. The duration of
| the climb is very important as well as the grade and in
| the case of this racetrack hill there's just no duration.
|
| It's over in less than a minute for a fit cyclist. You
| would hit the bottom of the hill at > 20mph and your
| momentum is going to help you get partway up the hill
| before they hit the point they even have to climb at a
| steady speed. It's not even long enough for "climber"
| type cyclists to be able to start dropping heavier
| sprinter type cyclists because it's a quick little effort
| and you're over the top. Even if you're in a race and had
| to do 10 laps (a short beginner level distance) you would
| still only climb 1330 feet across a 30 mile race, which
| would generally be considered a fairly flat race.
|
| The Tour De France has a classification system for
| climbs.. this one would be so short it would not
| necessarily even get a classification since it's not even
| 0.5km.
|
| A really scary climb would be > 10% for 10km or more. I
| had mentioned the Mt. Washington Hill climb in NH. That
| is 7mi/11km at a 13% average grade with essentially no
| letup the entire climb and some sections exceeding 20%.
| An excellent time is anything under an hour and twenty
| minutes and if you can break 1 hour you're putting in a
| world class performance. A winning time up that mountain
| would considerably longer than a 10 lap race of COTA,
| average speed at COTA for an elite group would be around
| 30mph for 10 laps of COTA in all likelihood.
|
| The hill at this race track is not even going to register
| to most serious cyclists.
| ska wrote:
| Agree duration is an important factor, an nobody would
| suggest this was a "real" climb in the tour-de-france
| sense.
|
| I think we are differing mostly on semantics. I would say
| for a serious cyclist, it will register but would not be
| any kind of challenge. Not sure why you are bringing
| elite cyclists (cf again, TDF) into it, there is an
| absolutely massive gap between the average serious
| cyclist and the elites.
| [deleted]
| nradov wrote:
| Gearing matters. If you're riding a dedicated tri bike with
| typical race gears then an 11% gradient is tough. On a road
| bike with a compact crankset it's fine.
| jsjsbdkj wrote:
| 11% is brutal! One of my favorite local climbs is about 450ft
| and maxes out at 7.5%, there's always people walking their
| bikes up the shoulder.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2021-06-28 23:01 UTC)