[HN Gopher] Binance Crypto Exchange Banned from Doing Business i...
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Binance Crypto Exchange Banned from Doing Business in U.K
Author : Osiris30
Score : 167 points
Date : 2021-06-27 14:15 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.bloomberg.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.bloomberg.com)
| throwaway77384 wrote:
| I kept my funds on Binance for a while, for convenience's sake.
| However, the old rule applies: not your keys, not your crypto.
|
| Keeping anything on an exchange, for the time being, is just too
| risky. This is another example of it. Governments are still
| trying to figure out how to regulate crypto, ever shifting the
| amount of hurdles between crypto and the world of fiat.
|
| I'd advise to pull funds if possible. I've recently done so with
| mine.
|
| Of course that means my keys / wallets are now my responsibility,
| along with ensuring that I have appropriate backups in place etc.
| esotericimpl wrote:
| This entire thread explaining how to properly "secure" your
| crypto is a great example of how crypto will not go main stream
| until these problems are solved for the layman. The fact that
| the top comment says "not your keys, not your crypto" shows a
| fundamental disconnect between hacker news and the general
| public. Until crypto is centralized and utilized more like a
| utility will the masses ever move significant amounts of their
| wealth to the "blockchain".
| dheera wrote:
| I don't know about that. For people like you and me that are
| likely to be familiar with good infosec practices, run open
| source OSes and only open source software, with no possibility
| of spyware or ransomware, have offline backups and offsite
| backups, sure, this advice is fine.
|
| For most people though, I feel like exchanges are safer from
| the more common threats: viruses, ransomware, failed hard
| drives, fire, floods, "gimme-your-laptop" gunpoint, ... They
| ironically also make your crypto slightly more anomymized since
| you aren't always spending out of the same wallet address so
| when you transfer crypto to someone, they don't automatically
| know your crypto net worth.
|
| I wouldn't trust Binance though. I moved all my funds off
| Binance for one reason -- their UI (especially authentication
| workflow) is super buggy, and that makes me extremely not
| confident that their backend isn't equally buggy. To top that,
| when I tried to report bugs to them they wanted my national ID
| to even engage in conversation, instead of fixing the bugs.
| Fuck that. Fix bugs _first_ and _only then_ will I trust you
| with my ID.
|
| Kraken, Bittrex, Coinbase Pro have solid UIs and give me more
| confidence in the quality of their engineering.
| rchaud wrote:
| Is there an ELI5 guide to keeping coins secure when they're
| off-exchange? I heard terms like 'cold wallet', 'cold storage',
| but surely there's work that goes into creating a secure USB
| stick?
| eingaeKaiy8ujie wrote:
| Use a separate computer with a minimal Linux system (maybe
| even without GUI) and only open-source software to manage
| your crypto. Your key should be password-protected. Make
| multiple backups of the key and remember your password. You
| can also write your password down on paper and hide it
| somewhere.
| SkyMarshal wrote:
| Also a good idea to use ECC Memory with the ZFS filesystem.
| That combination can correct any single-bit error, and
| detect and warn about any double-bit error, significantly
| reducing the chance of losing data to bitrot.
|
| And if you're backing up your keys on USB drives, use high-
| endurance SLC NAND industrial drives. They provide the
| highest reliability and endurance available.
|
| https://www.embeddedarm.com/blog/slc-nand-secrets-exposed/
| Grazester wrote:
| "There's nothing special about ZFS that
| requires/encourages the use of ECC RAM more so than any
| other filesystem."-Matthew Ahrens
| SkyMarshal wrote:
| His full quote, from the actual source (2003):
|
| _" There's nothing special about ZFS that
| requires/encourages the use of ECC RAM more so than any
| other filesystem. If you use UFS, EXT, NTFS, btrfs, etc
| without ECC RAM, you are just as much at risk as if you
| used ZFS without ECC RAM. Actually, ZFS can mitigate this
| risk to some degree if you enable the unsupported
| ZFS_DEBUG_MODIFY flag (zfs_flags=0x10). This will
| checksum the data while at rest in memory, and verify it
| before writing to disk, thus reducing the window of
| vulnerability from a memory error.
|
| I would simply say: if you love your data, use ECC RAM.
| Additionally, use a filesystem that checksums your data,
| such as ZFS."_
|
| https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1235679
| &p=...
| Grazester wrote:
| Exactly. You are at no greater risk of data loss if you
| use ZFS as appose to another file system.
|
| You stated "Also a good idea to use ECC Memory with the
| ZFS filesystem".
|
| You should have probably stated its a good idea to use
| ECC memory, period. Instead you tied ECC to ZFS.
| SkyMarshal wrote:
| I would simply say: if you love your data, use ECC RAM.
| Additionally, use a filesystem that checksums your data,
| such as ZFS.
|
| Both are better than either, and either is better than
| neither. Especially if you're storing cryptocurrencies on
| it.
| pjc50 wrote:
| Note that you can secure the coins but not the purchasing
| power of the coins. 10k bitcoins may be worth a billion
| dollars or they may be worth a pizza in ten years time.
| mrgordon wrote:
| In the extreme case people will set up a paper wallet using a
| computer that's disconnected from the internet. Once they
| have the keys, they can typically keep them non-digitally and
| transfer coins to that address as safe cold storage
| jasdine817 wrote:
| I just used a tool called BIP39 generator on and offline
| machine which you can feed entropy and it will generate a
| bitcoin private key. then sent funds to that address.
|
| Then just keep those details safe.
| tonfa wrote:
| How do you handle giving access to your keys to your next
| of kin?
| [deleted]
| puranjay wrote:
| Important question - I hope OP can answer.
|
| Too many people I know haven't instructed their
| dependents how to access their crypto.
| rand49an wrote:
| Just let them know where those details are and how to
| access them if they need to.
| whoisjohnkid wrote:
| you can use multi sig wallets. Which are synonymous to
| Shamir's Secret Sharing Algo; tldr you can generate say 5
| keys and you need 3 of the 5 to unlock.
|
| As for if you die ... you could use one of those services
| that will send an email out to your significant others if
| you don't log in for X amount of time.
| Paradigma11 wrote:
| And how do you prevent access for your next of kin if
| there is a breakup/fallout?
| knownjorbist wrote:
| Consider a hardware wallet like Ledger or Trezor, both are
| pretty easy to use and have extensive documentation. I'm sure
| there are OSS/hardware solutions you can roll yourself, too.
| rawtxapp wrote:
| You can buy something like Ledger Nano which is a hardware
| wallet. Essentially, the private keys never leave the device,
| you can instead just sign messages directly with it.
|
| You can also have normal software wallets (don't recommend it
| for larger amounts) or paper wallets.
| Geee wrote:
| Use a hardware wallet to securely generate keys and sign
| transactions. Hardware wallet is meant for secure use of
| cryptocurrency, but it is not optimal for long term storage.
| It's important to buy devices only from trusted vendors, and
| to make sure they're not been tampered with (never buy them
| from a third party).
|
| For long term storage, you need indestructible and physically
| secured backup of your keys. Basically, you just need to
| write down the 12 or 24 seed words generated by your hardware
| wallet and try to keep the words safe from destruction and
| theft. It's recommended to use a indestructible material such
| as steel for these, and then store or hide them safely. For
| more advanced security, seed words can be split in multiple
| parts using the SLIP39 seed format.
|
| For hardware wallets, e.g.:
|
| - https://coldcardwallet.com
|
| - https://trezor.io
|
| - https://www.ledger.com
|
| For long term storage, e.g.:
|
| - https://cryptosteel.com
|
| - https://cryptotag.io/
|
| - http://bitcoinseedbackup.com
| jameshart wrote:
| Looking at the cryptosteel - am I missing something or do
| you need to securely store or destroy all the engraved
| letters you _don 't_ use? Otherwise someone who obtains the
| remaining letters surely knows exactly which ones are in
| your secure word store...
| ozi wrote:
| Just throw a few away each time you take out the trash.
| tomp wrote:
| _> Basically, you just need to write down the 12 or 24 seed
| words generated by your hardware wallet_
|
| Why is that in any way more secure than writing down the
| private key itself? (inb4 "need to find _both_ the hardware
| _and_ the written seed words " that's equivalent to writing
| down the private key and then cutting the paper in half)
| mhluongo wrote:
| In some ways it's less secure, because seed phrases are
| usually master private keys, versus a single private key.
|
| The point is that you can decide what to do with it... be
| your own bank. You can also add a password to a seed
| phrase backup if that makes more sense for your threat
| model.
| Geee wrote:
| BIP39 seed words are used to deterministically generate
| all of your private keys in your wallet. You don't have
| to store the private keys themselves. Remember that each
| address has its own private/public key pair, and
| addresses shouldn't be reused. BIP39 has been the
| standard for many years.
|
| Hardware wallet is assumed to generate BIP39 seed words
| securely. If you don't trust the RNG, some hardware
| wallets also support adding your own entropy with dice
| rolls. [0]
|
| [0] https://coldcardwallet.com/docs/verifying-dice-roll-
| math
| rawtxapp wrote:
| Much easier to remember and to transcribe compared to
| writing down a string that looks like random garbage.
| tomp wrote:
| how much BTC are you willing to bet that you'll remember
| 24 randomly generated seed words? probably not much..
| that's why parent was advocating "you just need to *write
| down* the 12 or 24 seed words generated by your hardware
| wallet"
| grey-area wrote:
| Doesn't matter what you do with your cryptocurrency, the value
| can easily evaporate because of the actions of others,
| including binance and those who use it and other dodgy
| exchanges which make up the vast majority of crypto
| 'transactions'. What happens when you want to sell it for fiat
| you can actually use and nobody wants to buy?
|
| So many people pouring money into this space have never seen a
| bear market or a bank run.
| spottybanana wrote:
| Bitcoin isn't that new thing any more, to me it looks like
| fiat holders have seen too many bitcoin holders gain
| significant value. Yes, there are also those that lose their
| BTC for whatever reason but to me it seems to be quite a
| minority compared to those who actually have made good dough
| just holding BTC. To the tune of having retired on their
| stash.
| hurril wrote:
| Fiat holder is a ridiculous term in a false dichotomy. A
| holding of BTC is a security holding just as holding stocks
| (despite the fact that they are not legally referred to as
| such.) Nobody chooses between holding dollars or holding
| BTC. Nobody.
|
| The fact that this parent has a number of children that
| don't seem to pick up on this is problematic to say the
| least.
| grey-area wrote:
| If you cashed out to fiat and retired on your stash in this
| last bubble you're doing great, though that is at the
| expense of millions of retail bag holders who bought your
| cryptocurrency hoping they'd get rich too.
|
| If you didn't cash out already and are taking your coins
| offline etc, you're the bag holder.
| randomhodler84 wrote:
| A bag thats value getting heavier every year while the
| bank balance is losing value every year. Are not fiat
| holders the true bag holders? When you accept that
| everything is relative value, the dollar is not absolute
| (far from it!), holding fiat for long times seems
| foolish.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > holding fiat for long times seems foolish.
|
| Yeah, sure, but everyone except cranks who works in fiat
| openly acknowledges that. Fiat (well, major fiat
| currencies like the dollar) are good for low-volatility
| liquidity. For long-term accumulation of value, you
| invest in productive assets, which are both riskier over
| the long term _and_ higher volatility over the short
| term, but have higher average long-term yields. And,
| ideally, you diversify investments in ways that maximize
| independence of at least long-term variation, to mitigate
| risk and get closer to consistent long-term average
| results.
|
| Crypto"currency" that isn't fiat-pegged tends to be worse
| than major fiat at the things people who prefer fiat
| think fiat is for, while (in the best cases) being a very
| high-volatility speculative asset with very good average
| performance over its history to date (which isn't very
| long term). It's thus _not_ a great replacement for fiat,
| but potentially a bice addition to the stable of
| available investments.
| randomhodler84 wrote:
| Replacement, maybe, no, I don't know. It radically
| changes things back about 200y to a pseudogold standard
| but universally harder (energy usage over physical gold
| supply). I know I spend fiat over harder money. (I don't
| spend bitcoin, I save in it).
|
| I think you should not ignore the forest for the trees
| here. A small purchase today held for another 5-10y could
| prove quite lucrative for you.
| reidjs wrote:
| This assumes the USD stays dominant indefinitely, right?
| pjc50 wrote:
| Some have retired. Others have invested their retirement
| savings, enabling the first group to retire.
| chirau wrote:
| Is Coinbase also a case of not your keys, not your crypto? What
| would be the best way then to have your keys and your crypto? I
| never really understood the whole crypto storage stuff and how
| to approach it.
| encryptluks2 wrote:
| Yes absolutely. Coinbase has terrible customer service, often
| ignoring support requests completely until you go onto social
| media and try to get their attention publicly before they'll
| even give you a response. I don't think there is necessarily
| a "best" way to have your keys and crypto, but usually
| depending on the crypto you use they usually have an official
| wallet that you can use where you'd be responsible for the
| key(s). This means that you act like your own bank though, so
| if you lose your private key you also lose your crypto.
| Therefore it is important to use utmost security, privacy and
| safety when displaying and saving your key.
|
| A lot of people swear by hardware wallets like Ledger, and I
| think those are probably the best options for people that
| don't know a lot about security and crypto or possible even
| those that do.
| raziel2701 wrote:
| Coinbase, a nasdaq listed company, handles customer support
| through its subreddit. What's more, a few weeks back a
| customer got scammed through coinbase's subreddit when his
| support request was answered by another user impersonating
| coinbase customer support, instructing the customer to move
| their coins to a wallet number they gave them in order to
| solve the issue. The customer lost $75k and there was
| nothing coinbase could do other than "sorry for your loss".
|
| Here's the thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/CoinBase/commen
| ts/nhug9u/75000_just...
| neodon wrote:
| Yea they are terrible. They told me based on my state ID
| that I scanned and uploaded that my name was "wrong" --
| i.e. if I'm "John L Smith III" they basically said my name
| is really "Smith Iii L John" and refused to fix it,
| effectively nuking my account because it didn't match my
| real (wrong?) name. Oh and it took them over a month to
| respond.
| PaywallBuster wrote:
| yep, takes them weeks/months to reply to my email about
| deposit issues. I guess they don't want my money
| hermitsings wrote:
| Won't be surprised if India goes this way as well.
| puranjay wrote:
| Yeah, on-off ramps might be hard in India very soon. The RBI
| has no fondness for crypto. Don't think a ban is coming but I
| do think we will have to rely on P2P to on/off ramp - not a
| great solution when large sums of money are involved.
| kgraves wrote:
| Good. This is welcome and excellent news, I hope more regulators
| follow suit of this to more unregulated exchanges in the future.
|
| Cryptocurrencies are only used for scammers and fraudsters. I
| would go as so far as to banning them all.
| zdyn5 wrote:
| "Cryptocurrencies are only used for scammers and fraudsters."
|
| Source?
| chrononaut wrote:
| Not OP, but I have also been curious of the popularity of the
| actual set of transactions that serve utility and result, or
| facilitate, an exchange between two actors where one of them
| is providing something tangible (i.e, transactions other than
| acquiring cryptocurrency to hold, and then exiting back to
| fiat after some period of it).
|
| Obviously this will be difficult to actually know, for
| reasons that it's "hard to trace" but also most studies are
| likely biased in one direction (for the concept of
| cryptocurrency) or the other (against the concept of
| cryptocurrency).
|
| My intuition tells me that most transactions (at least in
| absolute fiat dollars) that result in an exchange of tangible
| assets are _largely_ illicit transactions that would
| otherwise be frowned upon the individual 's place of
| residence (e.g., ransomware, drugs, money laundering), but I
| don't know how that compares to other forms like standard
| retail services, local inflation hedging, or overseas
| transfers. The former group (in particular ransomware) is
| certainly enabled significantly more due to the existence of
| cryptocurrency however.
| [deleted]
| kgraves wrote:
| Why is this coin 'Monero' being used by these fraudsters and
| criminals to hide their activity? [0]
|
| The fact that this is making ransomware run rampant and now
| the victim is also part of the unfortunate process of paying
| the ransom in Bitcoin, (and now apparently they can also pay
| in Monero at the hackers, 'convenience')[1] it's getting to a
| point where regulators need to step in before this happens to
| more companies and the general public.
|
| [0] https://www.ft.com/content/13fb66ed-b4e2-4f5f-926a-7d34dc
| 40d...
|
| [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/13/what-is-monero-new-
| cryptocur...
| arthurcolle wrote:
| Why do many meatspace drug dealers only accept cash?
| kgraves wrote:
| Source?
|
| Also, did you just forget we were (and we are) in a
| pandemic that started a year ago, forcing almost every
| person in lockdown?
|
| What do you think was the mode of choice for drug dealers
| to launder their money through? I'll give you a hint, it
| is certainly not cash.
| slipframe wrote:
| Lmao are you serious? Source is 15 years of buying drugs.
| The illegal drug dealers only took cash, and now that
| buying drugs is legal, the legal dealers only take cash
| too. They have an ATM in their shop, but that's because
| they only take cash.
|
| I guess you never buy drugs IRL, if you really want a
| source for "drug dealers only take cash". What's next,
| wanting a source for "water is wet"?
|
| > _Also, did you just forget we were (and we are) in a
| pandemic that started a year ago, forcing almost every
| person in lockdown?_
|
| Guess who stayed open the entire time? The drug dealers.
| They were excluded from lockdowns due to ostensibly being
| essential businesses who sold "medicine". And guess what,
| the entire time they have only accepted cash.
| hakfoo wrote:
| I suspect that's more about the weird 'state-
| legal/federal-illegal' hybrid situation. Banks with
| federal charters can't touch the industry, so it mostly
| runs on cash.
|
| Two weeks after we get Federal legalization, someone's
| going to offer a rewards Visa with 4.20x points for
| cannabis purchases. You heard it here first.
| kgraves wrote:
| > Lmao are you serious? Source is 15 years of buying
| drugs...
|
| So the source is you then? If so, that is an anecdote and
| that isn't a reputable source, try again.
|
| > The illegal drug dealers only took cash, and now that
| buying drugs is legal, the legal dealers only take cash
| too. They have an ATM in their shop, but that's because
| they only take cash.
|
| So you are saying that cryptocurrencies was never an
| option for these people at all? If it _was_ legal bank
| transfer or credit cards would be just fine.
|
| Would be nice if you provide sources for your claims to
| these.
|
| > Guess who stayed open the entire time? The drug
| dealers. They were excluded from lockdowns due to
| ostensibly being essential businesses who sold
| "medicine". And guess what, the entire time they have
| only accepted cash.
|
| Again, do you have any reputable sources for these
| claims?
|
| Burden is on you to provide proof.
| slipframe wrote:
| You're serious? Holy fuck get real. I'm not even the guy
| upthread you were responding to, screw off with your
| "burden of proof" crap and go walk into a weed store with
| your bitcoins. They'll laugh in your face. They don't
| want jackasses like you hanging out in their store for an
| hour waiting for transaction confirmations.
|
| > Again, do you have any reputable sources for these
| claims?
|
| https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/what-essential-
| busi...
|
| > _The following list contains just a few businesses and
| workers that the state has classified as "essential.":
| [...] Workers in other medical facilities, including
| blood banks, mental health, and cannabis retailers._
|
| The drug stores never closed. They've been open the
| entire time, and the entire time they have only accepted
| cash. You bitcoin people are completely delusional. You
| would need your head buried under several meters of sand
| to not know any of this already.
| arthurcolle wrote:
| I promise you that drug dealers only accept cash.
|
| Maybe a few zoomer ones accept Venmo, but that is
| functionally equivalent.
| da_big_ghey wrote:
| "Cash are only used for scammer and fraudster." More true in
| today since most person have used a credit card and phone
| paying. Any tool with anonymous means can also have uses for
| bad person. But is not any excuse for banning, good person can
| sometimes not want to make a public purchase.
| kgraves wrote:
| so what is the point of cryptocurrencies then? other than to
| make ponzi schemes efficient to the unsuspecting general
| public who don't even know what they are getting into? [0]
|
| > But is not any excuse for banning, good person can
| sometimes not want to make a public purchase.
|
| It is when ransomware is on the rise [1] and the
| cryptocurrency exchanges like binance are letting them get
| away with it.
|
| [0] https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/04/survey-finds-one-third-
| of-cr...
|
| [1] https://www.coindesk.com/ransomware-is-a-crypto-problem
| mannerheim wrote:
| > so what is the point of cryptocurrencies then?
|
| Buying or selling services governments or payment
| processors don't approve of. This includes drugs,
| pornography (cryptocurrency is the only payment method
| available on PornHub at the moment), and distasteful speech
| (Gab has been banned from various payment services).
| da_big_ghey wrote:
| Extortion, protection racket, "normal" ransom all done in
| cash, you think criminal take traceable wire transfer?
| Maybe we are make a ban on cash? Persons with nothing to
| hide should not fear government seeing theyre transactions?
|
| Financial literacy already is of concern in fiat currency,
| so no surprising that here we have many people who are not
| very knowing of what they do. "Some people do bad things
| with this thing" cannot make excuses for "ban this thing".
| Having any ability for moving money out of sights of
| government, out of control of government, it can be in bad
| employment or it can be in good employment. Having any
| ability for moving money out of control for governments is
| the point of cryptocurency.
| puranjay wrote:
| The utility, to me, seems to be creating a global financial
| market that is truly trustless and permissionless, aka no
| gatekeepers.
|
| Right now, if I want to buy American stocks, I have to go
| through the handful of brokers licensed to sell foreign
| stocks in my country. I have to meet their funding
| requirements and I have to pay their hefty fees, not to
| mention meet their kyc requirements. This effectively makes
| it inaccessible to small players who might not meet the
| minimum requirements and/or pay the fees.
|
| With crypto, I can buy wrapped synthetic versions of the
| stocks without going through any third party. The only fees
| I pay are transaction fees.
| danlugo92 wrote:
| Where can I find synthetic stocks aside from Binance?
| hakfoo wrote:
| I'm sort of intrigued on this 'synthetic stocks' thing.
| What exactly are you buying there?
|
| In the US, we have 'ADR" (American Depository Receipt)
| products for foreign companies. A company holds foreign
| shares, then issues ADRs which can (nominally) be
| exchanged 1:1 for them. That allows investors to get
| involved without the legal complexities of actually
| getting the shares in their name.
|
| They're a normal thing you buy through ordinary domestic
| brokerages.
| imtringued wrote:
| They are very useful as black market currencies. Black
| markets are an escape hatch for bad governance and that is
| all they will ever be. Good governance will win in the end.
| kJuRaTGza2 wrote:
| Crypto is the only way I can pay for VPN without disclosing my
| identity. Also it's the only way I can move money abroad
| without getting a special permission from my country's central
| bank (except physically flying with max $10k cash). Ah, and
| also there is a war in my country that may escalate any time,
| but thanks to cryptocurrencies I can run away with empty
| pockets and still access my money from anywhere in the world.
| imtringued wrote:
| The black market exists for a reason and I don't want to take
| it away from you but that doesn't mean the entire world is
| going to adopt the black market.
| kgraves wrote:
| > Crypto is the only way I can pay for VPN without disclosing
| my identity.
|
| Some self respecting VPN providers allow you to pay with
| cash, you don't need crypto.
| LatteLazy wrote:
| (not OP) Like walk to their office with folding money!?
| kgraves wrote:
| Uh, yes?
|
| If you care about your privacy that much, just drop the
| envelope in your local postbox and it sends it to them.
| LatteLazy wrote:
| So send them my fingerprints and dna?
| kgraves wrote:
| heard of gloves?
| LatteLazy wrote:
| Heard of bitcoin?
| agumonkey wrote:
| You forgot the gazillions of small speculators
| Shosty123 wrote:
| I moved my funds from Binance shortly after their CFO jumped
| ship. Where there's smoke, there's fire.
| joemazerino wrote:
| Is there anyone with experience using Binance from a banned or
| restricted zone? Was your crypto frozen?
| vageli wrote:
| As a US user, I've accessed my old account via VPN to remove
| funds a couple months ago without issue. I was unable to access
| binance without VPN though (the original binance not the US
| specific new one).
| wyldfire wrote:
| I've always believed in the strength and independence of Bitcoin
| and cryptocoins. But maybe there's just so many evil-
| doers/criminals out there that the novel trust free payment
| network will crumble under the weight of all of the adjacent
| scams. I hope not, but I find myself in the truly puzzling
| position of rooting for the regulators sometimes.
|
| I can easily partition bitcoin's good qualities from all of the
| bad things that people do with/for them. But I don't think most
| people will do that. At the same time, in some ways it's nearly
| indestructible. So even if it's unpopular it will at the very
| least continue to serve the black market.
| CryptoPunk wrote:
| The bad people don't disappear when you create gatekeepers.
| Their power multiplies exponentially, as they use the
| regulatory process to suppress competition and hold the
| consumer captive. Theory would suggest that in a free market,
| people who act maliciously, and fail to build a positive
| reputation, would steadily be abandoned for those who act
| benevolently, and succeed in building a positive reputation.
|
| This would be a corrective feedback mechanism which steadily
| makes the social configuration less exploitive, and I think one
| could reasonably assume it is a far less failure-prone feedback
| mechanism than periodic political elections.
|
| Beyond the theoretical arguments, the empirical evidence
| suggests this is what happens. For example, countries with
| lower levels of government spending as a percentage of GDP have
| on average higher rates of economic development. For a more
| relevant example, the quality of project needed for a token
| sale to be successful massively rose between 2015, when the
| first token sale was announced, and late 2017, when the SEC
| shut down token sales. The market was evolving, while massively
| expanding the number of people participating in early-stage
| investing:
| https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11408-020-00366-0
|
| > _" The average ICO has almost 4700 contributors. The median
| contributor invests a relatively small amount. The ICO market
| appears to have successfully given access to the financing of
| innovation to a new class of investors, which is a long-
| standing public policy issue"_
| tobltobs wrote:
| "For example, countries with lower levels of government
| spending as a percentage of GDP having on average higher
| rates of economic development."
|
| Any citation for that?
| imtringued wrote:
| I also don't see how this is relevant because you still owe
| taxes even if you use cryptocurrencies for payments.
| rabf wrote:
| "The ban, said an FCA spokesperson, only applies to Binance's
| English incorporation, Binance Markets Limited, which Binance has
| not registered with the FCA (despite plans to do so).
|
| The spokesperson clarified that "UK consumers can continue to
| interact" with Binance Group, the wider, international collection
| of Binance companies that maintains no official headquarters.
| That means that Binance's customers in the UK can trade on
| Binance as normal--nothing changes."
| ArkanExplorer wrote:
| Its great to see Governments finally acting against Crypto.
|
| The technology will float around, but the actual formal legal
| exchange of fiat for crypto should be banned.
|
| This will indirectly disable Ransomware, since businesses will
| not be able to purchase the coins.
|
| And by reducing the price of coins, reduce the waste
| (electricity, hardware, human effort) associated with 'mining'
| them.
| jMyles wrote:
| This perspective is just so _alien_ to me. I don 't understand
| how anyone can casually express such vulgar celebration of the
| state, knowing the misery that it inflicts on the most
| vulnerable in society, with money as its chief method of
| lifelong emotional torment.
|
| Moreover, your predictions seem completely bombastic to me. Has
| there _ever_ been a case where governments banned something and
| the resulting black market settled at a cheaper equilibrium? I
| can 't think of one.
| ArkanExplorer wrote:
| The State can be replaced democratically.
|
| Crypto is full of pump and dump and exit scams.
|
| Bitcoin et al are also algorithmically supply inelastic. As
| demand for the coins decreases (due to the inability to
| actually buy them), the price will decline. This is basic
| supply and demand economics.
| newfriend wrote:
| The State is forced upon you.
|
| Crypto is opt-in.
|
| If you think it's a pump and dump, then just don't
| participate. Stop forcing people to do what you want, stop
| banning things you don't like. Leave me alone.
| ArkanExplorer wrote:
| When Crypto mining leads to shortages of computer chips
| and electricity, and widespread ransomware, it is most
| definitely _not_ 'opt-in'.
| Shosty123 wrote:
| "The State can be replaced democratically."
|
| Tell that to my friend who had his family's fortune wiped
| out in Argentina twice due to government seizure and
| hyperinflation before fleeing the country. Are these people
| just supposed to just take it on the chin for generations
| until their governments/societies stabilize?
|
| I don't know how anyone can see no value in a medium of
| exchange outside of government currency controls.
| jMyles wrote:
| > The State can be replaced democratically.
|
| Is this still relevant in the information age?
|
| I care a lot about my communities, and I don't think that,
| from my position of privilege, I can justify going around
| and telling people, "just vote - the violence against you
| will stop eventually."
|
| I'm not saying crypto is a complete answer either, but I
| think that its status as a change agent outside the
| political process is something to be celebrated, not
| condemned.
| imtringued wrote:
| > I don't understand how anyone can casually express such
| vulgar celebration of the state, knowing the misery that it
| inflicts on the most vulnerable in society, with money as its
| chief method of lifelong emotional torment.
|
| Power goes both ways. States created more prosperity and
| misery than anything else.
| spottybanana wrote:
| > The technology will float around, but the actual formal legal
| exchange of fiat for crypto should be banned.
|
| The opposite is pretty much happening, regulation. So
| government is licensing the exchanges and after that the
| licenced exchanges will have much better foothold in their
| business as the unlicenced exchanges get kicked out. In the
| long run for the legit users of crypto this will be for the
| better.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| Also booted from Ontario, Canada.
|
| https://old.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/o80yxs/bina...
|
| https://www.binance.com/en/support/announcement/ba03469c86f3...
| LatteLazy wrote:
| Anti money laundering is (rightly or wrongly) pretty incompatible
| with crypto. The question "where did these funds come from" is
| something no one using crypto can really answer honestly and it's
| the core question in AML.
|
| I like crypto. I like defacto drug decriminalisation and
| sanctions busting. But it was never gonna make it past AML.
| diamond559 wrote:
| There's a protocol on Ethereum called Aave providing
| lending/borrowing to banks/institutional investors in separate
| permissioned pools that comply with AML and kyc regulations.
| spottybanana wrote:
| What? I have used BTC for years and never had problem answering
| that honestly. I would argue the opposite, most BTC users are
| very straightforward investors, they bought BTC, maybe bought
| something with it along the years, then held the rest, then
| when the value went up sold some.
|
| Maybe the ones who have something shady going on are just the
| noisiest?
| LatteLazy wrote:
| The issue is a buy and hold investor will get $5k and sit on
| it. Another user sells $5k's worth every month because he's a
| small drug dealer. That second user is 1000x more revenue for
| the exchange because he trades every month. But you can't do
| business with him unless he tells you exactly what he's doing
| and who he is and gives you evidence he's getting those
| bitcoin from legitimate sources. Which he is not. So he
| really can't do any of that...
|
| You get the same thing in most exchanges: a few percent of
| users are 80% of revenue. And that's true even when there is
| no "secondary market" which can only make it worse.
| puranjay wrote:
| Its become a whole lot more complicated with DeFi. You might
| have made your profits from yield farming, lending, airdrops,
| etc.
|
| Its not simply a matter of "bought low, sold high".
| [deleted]
| nivenkos wrote:
| Great news, now just ban all the fiat-crypto exchanges.
| nikolay wrote:
| Can we end these scams already?!
| exdsq wrote:
| How is binance a scam?
| brighton36 wrote:
| I think the op addresses this... These are unlicensed
| securities.
| bronzeage wrote:
| They are cooperating with the Tether scam, so they are a scam
| too.
| zdyn5 wrote:
| Half of HN thinks anything crypto-related is automatically a
| scam.
| readyoubestbook wrote:
| I have my crypto in Binance, any tips on how to move it away from
| there?
| plondon514 wrote:
| Create a blockchain.com wallet
| puranjay wrote:
| Create a Metamask account and send your crypto to your address.
| Works with all ERC-20 tokens
| mr_sturd wrote:
| I've stuck with Electrum for Bitcoin, and MetaMask for
| Ethereum/ERC20 tokens.
|
| With both, make sure to save the generated seed phrases, and
| use a strong password to lock the wallets.
| eingaeKaiy8ujie wrote:
| Send it to your address?
| celticninja wrote:
| Banned from setting up a UK specific exchange and not allowed to
| undertake regulated activities such as lending. This in no way
| affects the existing Binance exchange or the ability of UK users
| to use Binance.
| lugged wrote:
| I pulled my funds from binance, writings on the wall.
| wpietri wrote:
| Yup. Regulators have given cryptocurrency companies a
| surprisingly long leash. But at least in the US, that's
| changing for sure.
| bombcar wrote:
| When you pull funds how do you transfer them out? As fiat or
| Bitcoin or tether or?
| sbierwagen wrote:
| If the UK makes it hard to trade bitcoin, you can also
| guess that the value of bitcoin denominated in GBP will go
| down dramatically. You probably don't want to be holding
| tether in that case.
| jimmydorry wrote:
| In my experience, it's typically been the opposite.
| Countries with harsher capital controls / make it harder
| to use Bitcoin, attract a premium in the purchase / sale
| of Bitcoin.
|
| South Africa for example has very strict capital
| controls, hence the price to buy or sell Bitcoin is
| higher than elsewhere. The catch is that you can't easily
| move fiat out of the South African economy, which makes
| abritrage, to take advantage of this imbalance,
| impossible.
| celticninja wrote:
| It hasn't done that and it is unlikely that they will.
| There are UK based exchanges, the issue here is with
| binance specifically and not cryptocurrencies in general.
| arthurcolle wrote:
| Stablecoin would work, BTC or ETH would work. It's not that
| hard.
| Animats wrote:
| Well, as large amounts of funds are pulled from Binance, we
| will find out if they've been stealing.
|
| A good regulatory step for the US would be to require that it
| can't be harder to withdraw than to deposit. Any ID
| requirements have to be completed before _depositing_ , not
| withdrawing. And all withdrawals must be processed by T+2.
| Same rules as regular brokers.
| randomhodler84 wrote:
| The reality is they don't need to. Pegged tokens are the
| ultimate way to fractional reserve. See tether. Plenty of
| binance pegged tokens to handle any loss. Best thing is
| when binance has to buy themselves whole, they just just
| burn the tokens on their chain. Genius. Not your keys, not
| your coins.
|
| Also that t+2 thing is just allowing shenanigans. When Rh
| forces the industry into instant settlement next year
| (hope!!) we will see who is truly been playing funny money.
| Looking at you citadel.
| wyldfire wrote:
| > And all withdrawals must be processed by T+2.
|
| I've never seen this notation before. Does it refer to
| blocks, hours, or (gasp!) days?
| jcranmer wrote:
| Given the typical settlement time of financial systems, I
| would assume it's days.
| Animats wrote:
| Trade day plus 2 business days.[1] This is the standard
| in the securities industry for most transaction
| settlements.
|
| Not paying on time is called a "fail". There are
| penalties. For US stockbrokers, FINRA enforces them.
|
| In the real world, a broker failing to pay out cash on
| time to multiple customers is a Big Deal. Alerts come up
| on Bloomberg terminals. It's headline news. Institutional
| investors stop sending trades to that broker and start
| demanding collateral. The SEC, FINRA, NASDAQ, NYSE, the
| Fed, and other become involved. See the collapse of Bear
| Sterns.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%2B2
| randomhodler84 wrote:
| Completely dumb and enabling of high finance scams.
| Instant settlement means nobody can play games. It fixes
| this. Embrace this.
| agilob wrote:
| but does that mean Binance will stop reporting accounts with
| trades for over PS5k to HMRC?
| mgamache wrote:
| "The U.K.'s Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) has ordered
| crypto exchange Binance to stop undertaking any regulated
| activity in the country. But since the exchange pulled its
| application for the FCA's crypto-assets register, _it will be
| unable to offer services that previously counted as unregulated
| -- such as spot trading -- either_. "
|
| https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/109766/uk-fca-bans-crypt...
| nebulous1 wrote:
| Looks like they actually altered that part. It now reads.
|
| "Since Binance pulled its application, that means the
| exchange can no longer provide services that were previously
| unregistered either, such as spot trading"
|
| It feels like The Block isn't entirely sure what Binance can
| or can't do at the moment.
| spottybanana wrote:
| > It feels like The Block isn't entirely sure what Binance
| can or can't do at the moment.
|
| I'm sure also Binance and the FCA aren't sure about that.
| The regulatory uncertainty in this space is huge. Even
| after this statement it is very unclear if there are any
| effective sanctions FCA can enforce on Binance if they
| continue doing whatever they are doing. Or they might just
| stop advertising, and start some stealth advertising
| campaigns after an year os so.
| yawaworht1978 wrote:
| Yesterday most of Canada, today Uk. Crypto adoption, but I
| reverse chronological order./s What is the US waiting for? Can't
| be long now.
| mgbmtl wrote:
| Most of Canada? I only noticed Ontario. Are there other
| provinces?
| overtonwhy wrote:
| "Binance has until Wednesday evening to confirm that it has
| removed all advertising and financial promotions, according to
| the FCA's register. The exchange must also make clear on its
| website, social media channels and all other communications that
| it is no longer permitted to operate in the U.K."
|
| "Binance is being probed by several agencies in the U.S.,
| Bloomberg News reported in recent months. And Japan's Financial
| Services Agency issued a warning against Binance recently, saying
| it offered crypto services without registration."
| topicseed wrote:
| From my understanding, this ban applies to regulated activities
| such as trading some specific securities, as well as options,
| contracts, and the likes.
|
| From the FCA's website[0]:
|
| > While we don't regulate cryptoassets like Bitcoin or Ether, we
| do regulate certain cryptoasset derivatives (such as futures
| contracts, contracts for difference and options), as well as
| those cryptoassets we would consider 'securities' - find out more
| information. A firm must be authorised by us to advertise or sell
| these products in the UK
|
| [0] https://www.fca.org.uk/news/news-stories/consumer-warning-
| bi...
| mirekrusin wrote:
| Funnily enough the reason seems to be poor money laundering
| measures. I always thought exchanges are the only money
| laundering gates where govt can have control.
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