[HN Gopher] Roblox on Linux with recent Wine 6.11
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       Roblox on Linux with recent Wine 6.11
        
       Author : homarp
       Score  : 158 points
       Date   : 2021-06-27 13:00 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (roblox.fandom.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (roblox.fandom.com)
        
       | shmerl wrote:
       | Roblox developers weren't helpful at all.
        
       | abledon wrote:
       | So for the most part, has roblox replaced most 'physical'
       | building activities kids used to do in the 80s/90s/00s ? E.g.
       | Lego/ going outside, building forts etc?
        
         | MattRix wrote:
         | That's mostly Minecraft, not Roblox. Lego is still super
         | popular... and yes kids still do go outside and build forts.
         | 
         | Also if you've never played Minecraft, it is amazing,
         | especially as a social experience, and it is very much not just
         | for kids.
        
         | McGlockenshire wrote:
         | Roblox is both a creation/building tool and a minigame
         | building/playing tool.
         | 
         | Both of my kids love playing minigames with their friends, but
         | don't build anything. Minecraft scratches their building itch
         | for the most part.
        
       | Black101 wrote:
       | I think that was the only program that prevented me from
       | installing Linux on the kid PC
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | _" Wine 6.11 or a more recent version. As of June 19, 2021, this
       | requires using a development release."_
       | 
       | That's an annoying problem with Wine. I submitted a bug report on
       | the released version, and it was rejected because it wasn't on
       | the latest development version. It's hard to install Wine in a
       | local directory, so installing a version that didn't come with
       | the Linux distro is iffy. (Someone is going to tell me it's
       | really easy, just type all these command line commands. That's
       | not what the instructions [1] say.)
       | 
       | [1] https://wiki.winehq.org/Wine_Installation_and_Configuration
        
         | jchw wrote:
         | To be completely fair, it really _isn 't_ that bad, at least
         | not compared to other software. In my experience the only
         | notably annoying part is getting all of the dependencies that
         | you want. After that, it's basically an affair of ./configure
         | && make.
         | 
         | If you are using Ubuntu, Debian or Fedora, you can probably use
         | WineHQ's repo with the winehq-devel package. You can also find
         | the dev dependencies listed on the Fedora page. On Arch, AUR
         | has the wine-git package that should work. On NixOS or other
         | distros/OSes where you have the Nix package manager installed,
         | you can get an environment with all of the dependencies setup
         | for you, although in _that_ case, I will at least note that you
         | don 't get a multiarch build.
         | 
         | The situation could be better, but given the heroic amount of
         | ridiculous stuff going on in Wine, it's not too bad either.
         | (Not sure how many pure C programs I've seen exposing MSVC C++
         | ABI interfaces, but Wine is one.)
        
         | simion314 wrote:
         | Try Play On Linux, or similar tools. It has the ability to
         | download wine versions, it has 6.11 and 6.11 staging but not
         | the GE or other special patched ones.
        
       | duxup wrote:
       | My son plays Roblox a great deal. It's fascinating the variety of
       | games on there. He'll play a tank game that is pretty much a
       | semi-clone of World of Tanks Blitz, but then the next day he's
       | playing a sort of bug RPG / simulator.
       | 
       | The variety is something that I don't see in the traditional game
       | industry where a bug rpg / simulator probably wouldn't be a thing
       | (anymore... sim ant..) but it somehow is in the Robox ecosystem.
        
       | ddtaylor wrote:
       | Someone needs to update https://lutris.net/games/roblox/
        
       | undfg wrote:
       | As you can see in this article, and as it is said in hn all the
       | time, running games on Linux is really easy.
        
         | judge2020 wrote:
         | Usually it's not for multiplayer games. I'm surprised Roblox's
         | anti-cheat is fine running on Wine since Roblox has been
         | dealing with cheaters (injecting LUA scripts into the
         | client/server, known as level 4/7 exploits) for over a decade.
        
           | undfg wrote:
           | Absolutely none of the problems mentioned in this article
           | have anything to do with Roblox being an online game.
        
             | judge2020 wrote:
             | Let's just say this would have been (and is) a problem for
             | competitive games like Fortnite, Valorant and Apex Legends
             | - at least until Epic releases the Linux Easy Anti Cheat to
             | third party developers https://www.easy.ac/en-
             | us/support/game/guides/os/
        
               | ThatPlayer wrote:
               | Linux Easy Anti Cheat already exists. Games like Rust and
               | 7 Days to Die do this fine on Linux.
               | 
               | The issue is those developers aren't releasing a Linux
               | native version of the game that can use the native anti-
               | cheat. And getting a Windows version of anti-cheat
               | working through Wine is harder. Games like Valorant and
               | Apex will never release a Linux native version
        
           | donkarma wrote:
           | They mostly solved cheating with good netcode design ala
           | Source Engine
        
         | villasv wrote:
         | So easy that it is newsworthy.
        
         | beebeepka wrote:
         | Yeah, it's fine for the most part. Of course there are some
         | problems with junk such as recent EA games requiring their
         | completely broken launcher. I just asked for a refund after
         | trying to play Crysis 3.
         | 
         | Games with crazy rootkit anti cheat spyware also don't work.
         | Such as PUBG. Not a big loss, really. StarCraft works, Doom
         | works, Quake, works. Even Cyberpunk works fine with AMD and
         | Nvidia cards.
         | 
         | I am not going back to Windows. Gaming hasn't been an issue for
         | a while. Huge thanks to everyone Took us almost 20 years.
         | Could've been sooner if Linus cared about gaming.
        
           | x4e wrote:
           | > Could've been sooner if Linus cared about gaming.
           | 
           | This surprises me, so you have any more details about Linus'
           | impact? I've always thought the main barriers were NVIDIA
           | and, lately, Battleye.
        
             | beebeepka wrote:
             | I don't think he ever blocked anything of substance that
             | could have helped. What I meant is that he just don't care
             | and never did. As far as I know, of course
        
             | undfg wrote:
             | There should be a stable kernel interface for drivers. The
             | developers of Linux have always been against the idea.
        
         | worldmerge wrote:
         | It's kinda funny that people can't read the sarcasm in this.
         | 
         | (I hope it's sarcasm).
        
           | indigodaddy wrote:
           | I believe they did read the sarcasm, and that's why they
           | downvoted probably..
        
       | morsch wrote:
       | You can run external games using Steam's Proton[1]. It's not
       | mentioned in the article so I guess it's not any help?
       | 
       | [1] https://boilingsteam.com/valve-breaks-the-shackles-of-
       | proton... or you could in 2019, anyway
        
         | Johnyma22 wrote:
         | and surprisingly this approach works incredibly well from my
         | personal experience.
        
           | tvb12 wrote:
           | I've been manually setting up wine prefixes for my games, and
           | until last week I had not run into any issues. For some
           | reason, Ori and the Blind Forest DE could not see input from
           | my controller. When running the game through steam,
           | everything works.
           | 
           | It's an excellent last resort, even if you're more
           | comfortable using Wine directly.
        
         | aspaceman wrote:
         | Proton is implemented via Wine - it's like a collection of
         | software and automatic configuration. You use Wine to implement
         | Windows syscalls. Wine also has DXVK to convert the DirectX
         | calls to Vulkan ones. So it's all the same stuff really.
         | 
         | https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton/
         | 
         | wine @ eef39a6 vkd3d-proton @ 72d9b32
         | 
         | Cobbling together existing tools is really powerful in games
         | and graphics :)
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | spicybright wrote:
           | So powerful. I feel when many try doing this a lot reach for
           | custom code instead of leaning established technology.
           | 
           | Building on wine just for games is an excellent thing too.
           | 
           | I just bought crossover for mac the other day (commercial
           | wine tuned for games) and have been pleasantly surprised how
           | well games run under it, esp. compares to my dual booted
           | windows for some reason.
           | 
           | 19 inch 2029 macbook pro
        
         | ThatPlayer wrote:
         | Proton still has a lot of Steam integrations that make it a
         | pain to use outside Steam. For example, Lutris no longer
         | supports Proton.
         | 
         | https://github.com/lutris/lutris/pull/3330
        
       | 2Gkashmiri wrote:
       | i recently tried to install amoung us exe on phoenecis play on
       | linux. there is this starting bug that is caused by shaders. i
       | tried a few fixes but none worked. It looks like i need to wait
       | for 6.11
        
       | nsajko wrote:
       | I know what's Linux and what's Wine, and Roblox is some video
       | game; but what's the interesting part in this page?
        
         | bemmu wrote:
         | Roblox is more than just a game, it's like a web browser that
         | instead of showing pages anyone can make allows you to join 3D
         | multiplayer hangouts/games anyone can make.
         | 
         | 75% of kids aged 9-12 in the US join these hangouts, and I
         | imagine not being able to participate would be a Linux adoption
         | dealbreaker for many.
        
           | fnordfnordfnord wrote:
           | Yup. My kids are on Windows machines primarily because of
           | Roblox
        
           | larrydag wrote:
           | It's kind of like a massively distributed sandbox game
           | environment.
        
           | an_opabinia wrote:
           | > hangouts/games anyone can make
           | 
           | Certainly not young children, who to the 50th percentile will
           | lack the computer, as opposed to phone, needed to author a
           | Roblox game, and to the 99th percentile, the developmental
           | skills needed to program in Roblox Studio.
        
           | mrspeaker wrote:
           | Yeah, calling it a "game" is underselling it. My nephew and
           | niece were really into Roblox, so I thought I'd be the "cool
           | uncle" and have a go at making something for them in Roblox
           | Studio.
           | 
           | I dragged out my macbook (as there was no Linux support) and
           | it was ridiculously easy to make a 3D multiplayer game that
           | millions of people could play instantly (sure, only a handful
           | of their friends played my creation, but still - if you made
           | something good, the audience is there!). It was also a great
           | introduction to my niece on using 3D software - she loved
           | adding tonnes of random stuff and moving it around into weird
           | structures.
           | 
           | I've tried to make multiplayer games in the past, and it's a
           | nightmare. Having a giant player base already authenticated,
           | with all the plumbing in place - it's just a really fun
           | environment to develop for.
           | 
           | I wish there was something similar (and as popular) for
           | making "more serious" games.
        
             | 83457 wrote:
             | Last time I played and watched neighbor kids play it all
             | just felt like a great idea implemented in a crappy way.
             | Watching kids playing games with micro transaction scams
             | and terrible experiences was disappointing, but the idea is
             | probably the future. It would be intriguing to see a
             | company like Mojang create a much higher quality system
             | with a similar approach.
        
             | hhh wrote:
             | As someone not in the target age group, the game Phantom
             | Forces in Roblox is one of the greatest FPS games to date.
             | All of the weapons have very visible stats, no pseudo-stats
             | displayed with bars (that sometimes aren't even accurate.)
             | Newer FPS games are starting to get this right, however.
             | 
             | Phantom Forces even had a sponsored event with Disney.
        
               | 83457 wrote:
               | I tried Phantom Forces and got the impression that the
               | main thing going for it was being available in Roblox and
               | a clone of a great game. There are many fps clones in
               | Roblox and PF may be the best of them but I don't think
               | it is comparable in quality to games like CSGO and
               | Valorant.
        
         | speeder wrote:
         | Last I tried to run Roblox on wine the problem is Roblox policy
         | officially consider Linux to be cheat software and ban anyone
         | attempting that immediately.
        
           | astroanax wrote:
           | That doesn't seem to be an issue now, tried it with
           | Grapejuice and didn't get banned. From the Grapejuice
           | Discord, this also seems to be the case for other Roblox on
           | Linux users.
        
           | indigodaddy wrote:
           | This is addressed in the article
        
         | bitfhacker wrote:
         | I have 3 kids and all of them play Roblox. In the past I tried
         | to run Roblox with wine but it didn't run.
         | 
         | Now, in the laptops of my kids, I can switch to Linux...
        
           | taf2 wrote:
           | So I have wine running on my linux machine in the house so my
           | girls can play the sims... I noticed on the web browser the
           | other day my kids had been searching how to install mods.
           | Interestingly they had gotten pretty far but couldn't figure
           | it out all the way since all the guides online pointed how to
           | do it in windows... it got me thinking maybe I'm depriving
           | them by having the linux setup... little successes along the
           | way build confidence... it's made me consider having the
           | games on windows... only reason I went wine in the first
           | place is I could not for the life of me figure out how to get
           | windows to install... unbuntu was a 20 minute process...
           | windows failed with some kind of driver error related to sata
           | controller issues ... spent a few nights and decided to just
           | run wine... gonna look back into it thought want them to have
           | the little successes of independence... 12 years old
        
             | simion314 wrote:
             | Hi, I can confirm that Sims3 and Sims4 mods work fine under
             | Wine. My suggestion is to teach your children to always
             | read instructions and install the mods one at a time and
             | test. It is easy to install something incorrectly and crash
             | your game.
        
         | boba7 wrote:
         | This particular video game is crucial for gnu/linux to become
         | popular and finally crush Microsoft.
        
           | pjmlp wrote:
           | That ship departed in 2000.
        
           | gizmo385 wrote:
           | I don't think Linux is anywhere close to crushing Windows as
           | the de facto desktop gaming platform.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | Zhyl wrote:
             | Closer than you might think. With Valves efforts now 88%
             | [0] of the top hundred Steam games run on Linux and there
             | is ongoing work to improve drivers, support and UX.
             | 
             | Steam now allows you to install any Windows game on linux
             | in the same way you'd install any other game. That's a big
             | improvement.
             | 
             | Anti-cheat is an issue, but otherwise it isn't a million
             | miles away.
             | 
             | [0] https://www.protondb.com/
        
               | Thaxll wrote:
               | It's not even close, it does not play most recents games.
        
               | Zhyl wrote:
               | Thankfully thanks to ProtonDB we can see exactly which
               | games run and what the caveats are.
               | 
               | I think "it does not play most recent games" is untrue
               | without qualification.
        
               | eitland wrote:
               | Importantly CS:GO runs better on Linux than on Windows on
               | my hardware (and that is after tweaking Windows for max
               | performance.)
        
               | raptorfactor wrote:
               | CS:GO is far from a "recent" game. It still gets
               | regularly updates sure, but it's nearly a decade old and
               | the engine hasn't evolved in that time in a way that
               | would make it comparable to a current-gen game.
        
               | eitland wrote:
               | > CS:GO is far from a "recent" game.
               | 
               | It is however one of todays most well known games.
        
               | raptorfactor wrote:
               | Sure, but that's not what was up for debate in the
               | comment chain you were responding to. That was
               | specifically about how well it handles "recent" games.
               | Not how well it handles old but still popular games. WoW
               | also runs great under Wine for example afaik.
               | 
               | I'm not diminishing the value of games like that running
               | well under Wine, I think it's great. But it's not the
               | same as "recent" games running well.
               | 
               | As one of the GPs points out anti-cheat is unfortunately
               | another big hurdle. CS:GO works great because VAC runs in
               | user-mode and Valve go out of their way to specifically
               | detect Wine and adjust behavior as appropriate (I reverse
               | engineered it extensively some years ago). I think EAC
               | has a native Linux client, but many of the big names are
               | still unplayable.
               | 
               | If you try to play Valorant, Apex, Siege, Warzone, PUBG,
               | etc. my understanding is they'll barely even launch, let
               | alone allow you to join a multiplayer match.
        
               | pizza234 wrote:
               | 88 out of the 100 top Steam games are not representative
               | of desktop gaming in general, even less "crushing"
               | windows, where games run out of the box, and as intended
               | ("platinum").
               | 
               | The value 88(%) is also misleading. It represents games
               | running at least at bronze level (the lowest quality of a
               | playable game). The percentage of perfectly running games
               | (via Proton) is 15%.
               | 
               | I support Proton as a shortcut to release Linux-
               | compatible games, but there's no comparison, in the big
               | picture.
        
               | Zhyl wrote:
               | But running out of the box with no tweaks includes Gold,
               | Platinum and Native which is far more than 50%.
               | 
               | I'm less about trying to imply that Linux is "crushing"
               | Windows and more about it being seen as a viable option
               | (i.e. " not a million miles away").
               | 
               | I think I'm against out of hand dismissal, which your
               | post and the post I responded to are without
               | qualification or balance.
        
               | pjmlp wrote:
               | And yet it is barely over 1% Linux desktop usage.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | caslon wrote:
               | I think the above poster was more talking in terms of
               | market share. I only use free software, so I don't really
               | have an incentive to shill against Linux here, but it's
               | worth noting that among the premiere desktop gaming
               | platform, more people use _PC VR_ than Linux. Linux isn
               | 't winning here, despite its better...everything, because
               | Windows has two major advantages: It's already installed,
               | and games are marketed to kids who more often than not
               | probably don't have a choice in operating system!
               | 
               | Markets don't optimize for efficiency in computing.
        
               | auggierose wrote:
               | Also, Linux isn't better everything, it is a pita.
        
               | Zhyl wrote:
               | It's not as good as the evangelists make out, it's not as
               | hopeless as the detractors make out.
               | 
               | The "news" is that in the last 5 years it has gone from
               | "absolutely not viable for gaming" to "good enough for a
               | lot of people".
        
               | pjmlp wrote:
               | Hardly, when the solution is to emulate the ABI of
               | another OS.
               | 
               | OS/2 was also a great platform for games by that measure,
               | thanks Win-OS/2.
        
               | Zhyl wrote:
               | That's true, I don't think it will be exploding without
               | either of the blockers you mention being overcome.
               | 
               | I do think the above poster hasn't made it clear the
               | experience they're speaking to. A lot of "anti" sentiment
               | I see is based on things that aren't really true anymore.
               | If all were informed and were giving their considered
               | opinion that despite recent advances they still don't
               | foresee a large gain in marketshare then that's fair
               | enough. I think my main issue is with uniformed
               | generalisations being stated as if fact backed up by
               | recent and relevant experience.
               | 
               | Having said that I do agree with your post, so please
               | note that my criticisms don't apply to you!
        
         | stingraycharles wrote:
         | Roblox is very popular among children, and having Linux support
         | is a big deal. Consider it the equivalent of "Minecraft finally
         | runs on Linux".
        
       | lukego wrote:
       | Hey what's a good way to engage with Roblox? My 6-7yo kids love
       | it but I don't see them doing anything creative as they do with
       | e.g. Minecraft. maybe they are just playing it wrong?
        
         | beermonster wrote:
         | Maybe get them to play more creative games like Build a Boat.
         | The platform is great but like any platform there are games
         | which either do or don't engage creativity.
         | 
         | Another thing you could try is get an account and play along
         | with them. A lot of games allow for private servers / areas
         | where you can play.
         | 
         | Get them to add real friends from their school and hookup on a
         | web conferencing app. That really helps with team building and
         | communication.
        
         | michaelbrave wrote:
         | Use Roblox studio, it's basically a game engine to develop
         | games for Roblox, uses Lua and has a marketplace full of things
         | like 3D models, it's best to start with a simple platformer,
         | Roblox has tutorials on their site.
         | 
         | Before that if it's too much, they could make things like
         | shirts to wear in game and sell those to other players, easiest
         | is to use a template and something akin to photoshop.
         | 
         | Roblox is closer to a game marketplace where the games are made
         | by fans than a game unto itself, so the creativity isn't game
         | inherent unless it's subgame was built to be like that (most
         | aren't).
        
           | marto1 wrote:
           | Don't forget the biggest selling point..you could become some
           | kid's unsung hero by making a game that he plays all the
           | time.
        
         | ohyeshedid wrote:
         | If they're enjoying it, and do so regularly, are they really
         | playing it wrong?
        
           | DaiPlusPlus wrote:
           | What's the typical age at which we expect people to decide if
           | they're doing something for fun - or if they're doing
           | something to create? Does it matter if it's inside the
           | sandbox (e.g. SimCity) or outside the sandbox (e.g.
           | Dreamweaver)? What if the sandbox is also a tool for
           | exploitation of the user (i.e. microtransactions?)
           | 
           | To share my own example - beyond SimCity and not-really-
           | understanding-how-to-make-Age-of-Empires-maps when I was 10
           | years old - I don't think I can say I was really using
           | computers constructively until I was 12/13 when I was at the
           | point where I actually understood what I was doing with my
           | cracked copies of Macromedia and Adobe software - so if I'm
           | using myself as a benchmark I wouldn't stress too much about
           | grade-school kids being newbs...
           | 
           | ...just please don't repress them. And introduce them to the
           | concept of creating _their own things_ outside of closed
           | platforms.
        
         | watwut wrote:
         | Roblox is just games platform. It is not creative unless you
         | download roblox studio.
         | 
         | 6-7 years old could use it to create obby game with adult
         | guidance.
        
           | arkitaip wrote:
           | Roblox games can be incredibly creative, many are sims and
           | builders, i.e. games within games. But yeah, Roblox Studio is
           | where the real stuff gets made
        
       | encryptluks2 wrote:
       | Cool I guess, but a bit disappointing that it isn't just natively
       | supported by Linux. I thought the team at Roblox would at least
       | have enough people that were interested in helping kids create
       | that they would see the value in creating a native Linux client.
        
       | miked85 wrote:
       | I must be getting old. I am not sure I understand what Roblox
       | even is.
        
       | qwerty456127 wrote:
       | I was unpleasantly surprised there still is no Linux-native
       | version.
        
         | ineedasername wrote:
         | Consider that their primary audience is close to 40 million
         | mostly kid players. Young kids generally don't care about OS
         | options and use whatever PC their parents buy, which will
         | mostly be Windows. Further, even Windows PC players are in the
         | minority, with close to 75% of users playing on mobile devices.
         | 
         | Linux would always be a minority option. In the case of Roblox,
         | it would be the minority option of a minority platform. Not
         | really the type of thing the company is going to throw money at
         | while they're supporting 4 other platofrms: Windows, MacOS,
         | iOS, Android. All of them more accessible to their audience.
         | 
         | Disappointment in their choice not to develop for Linux is
         | natural, but it's a fairly reasonable choice on their part to
         | avoid increasing their platform & build maintenance
         | requirements by 25% for an exceptionally small number of users
         | that would refuse to use a different OS.
        
           | qwerty456127 wrote:
           | I expected it to be available on RaspberryPI.
        
         | washadjeffmad wrote:
         | "Linux-native" is an outdated mindset. With tools like WINE and
         | Proton+DXVK/D3DVK / SteamPlay, software developed on Windows is
         | in all practicality platform agnostic.
         | 
         | After more than a decade, we know the cost of supporting Linux
         | native builds seems to be the sanity and good will of the devs.
         | For indie and small teams, it's literally taking food out of
         | their mouths asking them to use resources fixing obscure bugs
         | from a vocal minority that they could instead put towards
         | developing new content or planning their next projects.
         | 
         | I get the sentiment, but really, we won the lock-in war. It's
         | kinder to ask devs to stick to what they know and are
         | comfortable with, and if they want to build with SteamPlay in
         | mind, then we all win.
        
           | bruce343434 wrote:
           | > we won the lock-in war
           | 
           | I think you meant lost? But then we sidestepped it, albeit in
           | a buggy and incomplete fashion.
        
             | MayeulC wrote:
             | > albeit in a buggy and incomplete fashion.
             | 
             | Really? I find that I can play most games just fine under
             | Linux, except those that require annoying anti-cheat
             | software (but then I wouldn't want to run that under
             | windows either...).
        
               | bruce343434 wrote:
               | For my library, it's still largely a 50/50. But it has
               | been getting better lately. Maybe it's 60/40. A big one
               | is Space Engineers, which is supposed to work with such
               | and so patch, but not for me.
        
           | pjmlp wrote:
           | As much as OS/2 did win.
        
           | marto1 wrote:
           | While this is true, some devs in the indie community develop
           | on linux[1] so support is there by default. It's also a
           | small(hopefully growing) niche to target Linux as a platform.
           | SteamOS is also a thing, albeit without a solid market afaik.
           | 
           | [1] https://blog.system76.com/post/654884924769370112/develop
           | ing...
        
         | michaelbrave wrote:
         | More than half of their player base (like 60%) play on mobile,
         | so I image it's just not a big priority to them.
        
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       (page generated 2021-06-27 23:00 UTC)