[HN Gopher] YouTube Shorts vs TikTok
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YouTube Shorts vs TikTok
Author : To_the_moon_GME
Score : 82 points
Date : 2021-06-24 09:13 UTC (3 days ago)
(HTM) web link (builtformars.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (builtformars.com)
| tyingq wrote:
| YouTube will eventually ruin shorts with advertising. I can't use
| regular YouTube now that they have eliminated the "Skip Ads"
| button in many cases, and also resorted to injecting ads in the
| middle of a video.
| Yhippa wrote:
| TikTok is one of the few apps I uninstalled after using it a few
| times. It was incredibly addictive. I didn't use it for an
| extended period or anything, but I realized that if I let this
| thing sit on my phone, I would go for it too much than my other
| app addictions.
| gremloni wrote:
| Same. I reinstall it in short bursts every couple of months but
| otherwise the same music-different videos aspect of it really
| sucks me in in the same way a hook of a song that I really like
| does. Hats off to the magically addictive combination the
| authors of the platform have come up with, it's a real
| achievement.
| [deleted]
| jkochis wrote:
| Same exact story for me. One taste was all needed to know that
| I dare not taste again.
| hackitup7 wrote:
| I had exactly the same experience. Tiktok is one of the most
| addictive products/substances I've experienced and I found it
| genuinely frightening. I spent about 2 hours on the app
| without realizing it one day, and deleted the app basically
| as soon as I snapped out of my reverie.
| ackbar03 wrote:
| What gave you that feeling exactly do you think?
| freyr wrote:
| I think TikTok's videos are just long enough to provide a
| quick dopamine hit over and over again, but too short to
| deliver any real substance.
|
| You become like the lab rat hitting the lever over and over
| again to get a pleasure spike from the electrode wired to its
| brain.
|
| I've found that my attention span and willpower have been
| decimated in the last few years. I can barely make it through
| a few pages of a book without reaching for my phone. I'm not
| sure if the (over)stimulation caused by apps like TikTok are
| the cause, but it seems plausible.
| selfhoster11 wrote:
| > You become like the lab rat hitting the lever over and
| over again to get a pleasure spike from the electrode wired
| to its brain.
|
| Incidentally, this is what HN upvotes on my comments are
| for me. I tried to abandon the use of smartphones entirely,
| but HN is the one addiction that I can't seem to kick. Even
| YouTube was easier to kick, and that one wasted a lot more
| of my time.
| 2939223 wrote:
| TikTok is to YouTube what Twitter is to blog posts.
| britch wrote:
| Not OP, but had the same experience
|
| For me I think it's two factors:
|
| 1) Quick out if you don't like it. Load the next thing is
| really quick and easy to do. Just flick up and boom it's the
| next thing. Right now there are no ads or interruptions. It's
| really easy to move on from something you don't like.
|
| 2) The algorithm is really good. I don't know enough about
| it, but it consistently shows me stuff I want to see. I can't
| explain it more than that.
|
| I also don't feel like it boxes me in the same way Youtube
| does. Youtube shows me nearly the same thing I have already
| seen and liked. Tiktok pulls up a good variety (sometimes
| from creators with single digit followers) that I am
| interested in.
| eric__cartman wrote:
| Even though I use it sometimes, I'm not a fan of social
| media in general, but I would describe TikTok as the crack
| cocaine of social media platforms. Once I started seeing
| those short videos half an hour would go by in an instant.
| I don't know how they made the video selection algorithm so
| good, but after a while of using it, it mostly shows videos
| where it can be almost certain you will watch at least part
| of it.
| xmprt wrote:
| I don't know if the algorithm is so good or if it's
| because the app actively engages your brain without you
| realizing it. You're constantly thinking about whether
| you like the current video or not that you don't see the
| time go. If instead you were forced to make a conscious
| decision of what to watch before watching the video, it
| would be much easier to stop watching by just consciously
| making a decision to not watch the next thing.
| xmprt wrote:
| I don't know if the algorithm is so good or if it's because the
| app actively engages your brain without you realizing it.
| You're constantly thinking about whether you like the current
| video or not that you don't see the time go. If instead you
| were forced to make a conscious decision of what to watch
| before watching the video, it would be much easier to stop
| watching by just consciously making a decision to not watch the
| next thing.
| BuyMyBitcoins wrote:
| I've reached that critical period in middle age where I don't
| sign up for new social media platforms because I don't "get"
| them. My limited understanding is that TikTok is for short
| videos and there's _a lot_ of dancing, for some reason. Is it
| the platform itself that's addictive, or the content is just
| that good?
| rsj_hn wrote:
| It's more about providing shots of dopamine without requiring
| the ability to pay attention for longer than 30 seconds,
| combined with a decent ranking algorithm. If you are not used
| to consuming entertainment in bite-sized pieces then you wont
| enjoy it, regardless of how old you are. It's just that the
| proportion of people who expect entertainment to consist of
| half minute segments is much higher among the young than the
| old, and if you do fall into that group, you will really
| struggle being able to handle even a 15 minute youtube video,
| let alone a 40 minute broadcast show or a 3 hour play. In
| that case, you don't have many good video consumption options
| besides TikTok, so you will spend a lot of time there, even
| though I don't think it's addictive.
|
| What I really wonder about is the future of sports -- what
| will they do to make, say, baseball appealing to people with
| those types of attention spans. I wouldn't be surprised if
| there are some big upheavals in the sports world over the
| next two decades.
| 2939223 wrote:
| Sports are the last worry in a society where 30 seconds
| attention spans are endemic.
| honzzz wrote:
| I was also surprised that you are worried about sports -
| that is one of the last things I would worry about.
|
| I worry that our reward systems are being hijacked. We are
| more and more trained to seek short dopamine bursts.
|
| The problem is that this is short term satisfaction that
| creates chronic boredom in the long run. Just notice how
| you feel after two hours of watching "funny" videos or
| whatever is your poison. Don't you feel like it's not funny
| anymore but you keep watching anyway just to escape the
| creeping sense of emptiness?
|
| Lately, I keep thinking about what Erich Fromm said about
| people becoming robots, although he meant it in a different
| context: "But given man's nature, robots cannot live and
| remain sane, they become 'Golems', they will destroy their
| world and themselves because they cannot stand any longer
| the boredom of a meaningless life."
| ALittleLight wrote:
| TikTok quickly adapts to show you videos that you're
| interested in. There's all sorts of content on TikTok.
| There's a lot of dancing videos in the same way that there
| are a lot of dancing videos on YouTube.
|
| TikTok seems like a next generation YouTube though. What it
| adds, in addition to an easy and addictive way to watch, is a
| remix culture empowered by the ease of creating new videos.
| Dancing is a fine example. When someone creates a new dance
| other TikTokers try it out or put their own twist on it.
|
| I think highly of TikTok. It's creative. The algorithm
| powering the feed is compelling. I personally uninstalled it
| because I'd get caught up using it and spend more time than I
| wanted on the app - but it's doing a lot right.
| denimnerd42 wrote:
| the dancing might be how zoomers used it but nowadays there
| are all kinds of categories. fishing, cars, home improvement,
| gardening, career help, ask me anything (lawyers, therapists,
| etc)
| bserge wrote:
| How does that work in short form?
| kalleboo wrote:
| I was curious too so I checked YouTube for "gardening
| TikTok" and people have made compilations
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Es9BJpvvFQ0
| frankcort wrote:
| Oh no
| jonobird1 wrote:
| You make great points, obviously focused on the UX portion. I
| definitely agree. TikToks algorithm is just amazing too,
| incredibly personalised. Borderline addictive app.
|
| A huge reason for TikToks success that might not be seen by the
| average user is that they spend a lot of their marketing budget
| on their content creators. This is something that not a lot of
| platforms do - they send free lighting equipment and have reps
| that teach up and coming content creators how to make better
| content.
|
| I do wonder if YouTube did this more, that they'd get better
| traction on their other products. People follow the content
| creators not the platform so if the content creators start using
| a platform, people will follow.
|
| Just my two cents anyway, for what it's worth.
| phito wrote:
| Borderline addictive? It is designed to be addictive.
| jonobird1 wrote:
| Yeah, but not really the point I was making.
| joelbondurant wrote:
| TikTok is less of a censorship platform than tyrannical
| California based dictatorships.
| Gelob wrote:
| YouTube is a terrible platform to discover videos and creators
| you don't already know that are relevant to your interests.
| bserge wrote:
| How so? I discover only what I need, which is perfect.
|
| I will watch a video about fixing something on a car, I don't
| need to watch the poster's whole channel.
| ZephyrBlu wrote:
| Do you frequently use YouTube? Most users don't specifically
| search for every video they watch.
|
| I use subscriptions to curate videos from channels I'm
| interested in. So yes, I generally do want to watch the whole
| channel if I'm subscribing to it.
| bserge wrote:
| No, not frequently, it's basically Video Google Search +
| Music for me.
| pope_meat wrote:
| TikTok is a wild thing, my girlfriend gets absolutely mesmerized
| by it for hours on end.
|
| Crazy dangerous mind trap, cognito hazard.
| oefrha wrote:
| This is a pretty good analysis of the many UI/UX problems of
| YouTube Shorts, with a focus on the content creation process. The
| lack of basic search term completion in the music search widget,
| and the confusing visual cues and cryptic error message in the
| submission form are especially surprising. I was going to say
| rushed, but rushed alone doesn't really explain these obvious
| problems.
| w10z wrote:
| If anyone want to join TikTok engineering team (US, Singapore, or
| China), I am help to connect and refer. You can reach out by
| sending email to fe-hiring@tiktok.com.
|
| Some JDs are: - Full Stack Engineer:
| https://careers.tiktok.com/position/6756684226650704135/deta... -
| Frontend Engineer:
| https://careers.tiktok.com/position/6846496424085080328/deta...
|
| You can also apply directly from our career sites,
| https://careers.tiktok.com/.
| yorwba wrote:
| You should post job ads like that in the "Who is hiring?"
| thread that gets posted on the first day of every month. You
| might want to familiarize yourself with the expected format
| beforehand:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=whoishiring
| ipaddr wrote:
| I found tiktok to be boring compared to youtube. With youtube I
| can skip with tiktok I have to slowdown and watch at least 5 - 10
| seconds.
| jdlyga wrote:
| TikTok vs YouTube Shorts isn't even comparable. TikTok has a huge
| amount of creativity and momentum behind it. It's like the early
| days of Reddit with tons of different communities. The main thing
| that's different about it vs Instagram or other platforms it that
| most people are fairly authentic.
| freyr wrote:
| > most people are fairly authentic
|
| That tends to fade quickly as a platform gains popularity.
|
| Already we've seen how TikTok and record companies manipulate
| which songs go viral [1]. Popular creators have banded together
| to join "hype houses" with major financial backing. Yes, you
| can still see spontaneous moments captured on video, and random
| content from small-time creators, but a lot of the most popular
| material is marketed.
|
| [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-22/how-to-
| go...
| saurik wrote:
| There is something important that I want to say is much more
| basic going on though with respect to "authenticity":
| Instagram (which I am going to stare at; I appreciate it
| isn't YouTube Shorts, but I want to juxtapose how amazing
| TikTok feels) has--for as long as I can remember--and almost
| exclusively, recommended accounts that repost content from
| other accounts; it is like an entire industry of people who
| scavenge Instagram for photos or memes or comics that match
| some theme and then repost and aggregate the content for
| purposes of gaming karma and then claiming to be a way for
| other accounts to get discovered... I _never_ want to follow
| accounts of that form. I have spent a _lot_ of time on TikTok
| over the past year and a half, and I have never even seen an
| account like that there? It isn 't a complex concept to
| execute--I feel like most of the people who do those
| aggregator accounts are amateurs--and TikTok is assuredly
| mature enough to be targeted... I frankly get the impression
| (which might be wrong? I'd love to know if there is something
| else going on) that if you try to repost content someone else
| made, for any reason, that that's both sufficiently against
| the terms of service and sufficiently against the community
| norms that you will get reported and quickly removed. Like, I
| appreciate that "authenticity" also often talks to the
| premise of "an individual with a camera bearing their soul"
| as opposed to "a corporation creating high production
| videos", but Instagram--if you aren't actively coming there
| to follow specific people (maybe friends off of Facebook) and
| are instead just trying to explore its world--feels like
| nothing more than a bunch of "content farming spam", which is
| about the least authentic arena you could possible cause to
| exist.
| airpoint wrote:
| Very good observations. On Instagram Reels if I like a
| video from the original user once, the IG algos will keep
| showing me the very same video via these
| aggregation/content farming accounts for good next two
| weeks -- until I eventually select "not interested" a
| couple of times. The algo is basically working against
| itself -- at that point I dislike the vid not because I
| dont like it, but because I've seen it 20x now ugh. IG
| doesn't know seems to know that. Very primitive.
|
| No such nonsense on TikTok -- always new original, highly
| targeted and personalised content.
|
| YouTube has no idea about any of this, just showing random
| shit that's trending per country and language lol. Stone
| Age!
| nomay wrote:
| I think what you discribed is already happening on Douyin
| (the China version), on which the initial novelty had long
| worn off, people no longer just/or largely post for fun.
|
| It's all about monetization now, any view is meant to
| generate profit, every poster is peddling something, like
| the Instagram accounts you described, there are endless
| regurgitating of news events, movie and TV show digests.
|
| There are content factories searching for beautiful faces
| to appear in their merchandise tiktoks, but only the face
| part (kind of a remote job?), not the voice and acutal
| body, those will be produced in their assemly lines and
| match with your face.
|
| Maybe western users are accustomed to higher standard
| videos, but the late stage will inevitably come. And the
| lower the entry barrier, the uglier the scene will become.
| booleandilemma wrote:
| When I want short videos I go to TikTok, when I went long-form
| videos I go to YouTube. I don't understand why YouTube needs to
| compete with TikTok in the short video space.
| boraturan wrote:
| Google has a "Web Stories" initiative. YouTube shorts might
| eventually get connected to that, videos appearing on Google
| Search creating a decentralized stories distribution/search/ad
| network. (Disclamier: founder@ alvin5.com where I am working on
| the same concept). I agree that shorts in the youtube app context
| is awkward, if they get traction, might spin out.
| moneywoes wrote:
| Interesting concept. Why wouldn't I just make a tiktok account
| for my business instead? That would have the added benefit for
| discovering more customers.
| mastrsushi wrote:
| Being a YouTuber since 2006, I find myself getting sucked into
| Shorts for almost hours at a time. I snap out of the stupor
| sometimes feeling an emotional withdrawal after gazing at a chain
| of stupid 5 to 10 second clips.
|
| The recommendation system of YouTube Shorts feels weighed down by
| rich and pretty 20 year olds at the gym, the beach, some mansion
| in LA, etc.
|
| I wish the site was still small community friendly like it was
| 10+ years ago, but I understand they gotta get with the times.
| YouTube could've easily turned into Dailymotion and it's pretty
| remarkable they're still able to survive as merely a video
| sharing site. I guess that's the ubiquity you recieve with a
| Google acquisition. Even the name "YouTube" reeks Web 2.0 lol.
| imvetri wrote:
| That makes YouTube addiction sound good. :D
| factsaresacred wrote:
| The slides mention that the video on Youtube shorts is a screen
| recording of TikTok.
|
| It's likely that the TikTok video was simply downloaded using the
| download button, no trickery required. In contrast to Instagram
| and Google's walled gardens, TikToks videos are easily shareable
| and so often end up being uploaded onto these platforms[0] - with
| the branded watermark leading viewers back to the original
| source.
|
| Part of the reason for their success I think.
|
| [0] https://www.socialmediatoday.com/news/instagram-will-now-
| lim...
| mkaic wrote:
| I get screen-recorded TikToks sent to me all the time--for some
| odd reason, that download feature is actually only available on
| a seemingly random selection of videos, and creators can't
| control it either.
|
| Source: I've uploaded a lot of TikToks, and some of them just
| don't have a download option. Doesn't seem to matter whether
| there's copyrighted content present or not, genuinely seems
| almost random.
| stared wrote:
| My initial impression was "Why heroin isn't as addictive as..."
| dnautics wrote:
| On youtube, I just sucked 2 hours of my life on Adam Neely
| videos that I wanted to be working on my side project.
| psychomugs wrote:
| I'd rank his channel leaning towards the productive
| entertainment side, I usually leave at least marginally more
| inspired or knowledgeable than before.
| dnautics wrote:
| it's the one channel you can't really 2x speed
| monkeybutton wrote:
| Taking this comment way too seriously here, but one of the
| strongest predictors of how addictive a drug is, is the amount
| of time it lasts. The shorter lasting, the more addictive. So
| in this example TikTok would be more like crack cocaine since
| it gives the user short, intense bursts of dopamine rather than
| something longer lasting like heroin.
| mkaic wrote:
| Small-time TikTokker here (~100k followers) -- TikTok has a HUGE
| first-mover advantage in this space. By the time Snapchat and
| YouTube started taking short-form content seriously, TikTok was
| already miles ahead of them. Additionally, the TikTok
| collaborative recommendation algorithm is leaps and bounds above
| any other platform's. They've got a very active userbase, they
| invest in creators, and they provide a way to get discovered as a
| creative teenager who wants an outlet.
|
| Their UI has been refined a lot over the years, with each update
| making it more satisfying to click on notification bubbles.
|
| Additionally, because the community is so large and the algorithm
| so good, you can literally find almost ANY niche you like there.
| People who haven't used the app for long complain about the
| content being mostly dances and pranks, but the truth is that if
| you use the app consistently, it'll figure out a dozen super
| specific-to-you niche topics within a day or two. For instance,
| I'm part of the VFX, filmmaking, art, and music production sides
| of TikTok because those are my hobbies, but I also routinely get
| candy making videos, absurdist comedy, and animations, things I
| didn't know I loved until I downloaded TikTok.
|
| Overall--if you have a history of social media addiction, use it
| with caution. If you're not afraid of getting sucked in for hours
| at a time, it truly is a wonderful platform full of stellarly
| creative people.
| gman83 wrote:
| I actually like YouTube shorts. It seems to capture my
| interests more than TikTok does. With TikTok, I find myself
| watching inane stuff that my unconscious mind is compelled to
| watch, but as soon as I snap out of this dream state and
| realize what I'm watching I see how stupid it is. YouTube
| shorts seems to be easy to consume videos that I actually find
| interesting.
| mkaic wrote:
| That's a cool perspective, I guess I'm just really easy to
| recommend content for :)
| rvz wrote:
| > Additionally, the TikTok collaborative recommendation
| algorithm is leaps and bounds above any other platform's.
| They've got a very active userbase, they invest in creators,
| and they provide a way to get discovered as a creative teenager
| who wants an outlet.
|
| That is no different to the behaviours of the other social
| networks that also have their own _' recommendation algorithm'_
| that governs which content is seen and unseen by the developers
| and who's data is run on the hundreds of millions of users
| sensitive personal data, search, watch habits and user
| interaction data and is always subject to change or adjustment.
| The same goes for YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and
| Snapchat.
|
| Given that TikTok has screwed with their users in the past [0]
| [1], how long until they will do it again so that we will talk
| about the next social network that everyone moves to?
|
| > Overall--if you have a history of social media addiction, use
| it with caution. If you're not afraid of getting sucked in for
| hours at a time, it truly is a wonderful platform full of
| stellarly creative people.
|
| That sounds more like magnificent news to the investors, not to
| the users.
|
| [0]
| https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/25/22301704/tiktok-92-millio...
|
| [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-56815480
| xmprt wrote:
| I've noticed that YouTube also gets a few small things wrong
| with their Shorts. Things like not being able to play the video
| while reading comments or making the interface less fluid or
| waiting for TikTok to add features before they follow (eg.
| being able to scrub through a video. If YouTube added this, I'd
| probably stop using TikTok pretty quickly).
|
| TikTok also has network effects of creativity. I don't think
| I've ever seen a trend go viral on YouTube Shorts before
| TikTok. Nor have I scene any stitches or duets (do they even
| have that feature?)
|
| I think they have a chance to capture a huge market though if
| they get it right (although considering most of the people
| using Shorts are just reposting TikToks, it'll take some time).
| MuffinFlavored wrote:
| > By the time Snapchat and YouTube started taking short-form
| content seriously
|
| Wasn't Vine first to take short-form content seriously?
| nazgulnarsil wrote:
| How can any of that content have any depth with a max video
| length of 15 seconds?
| xmprt wrote:
| On the contrary, there are many YouTube videos that could be
| explained in 15 seconds to a minute on TikTok but instead you
| have to sit through a full 10 minutes to get the really
| interesting parts.
|
| If you want more depth, often times, people will post
| multiple parts on TikTok (something which has a poor UX but
| at least works) so you can dive deeper into a topic if you're
| interested.
| mkaic wrote:
| Max length is actually 1 minute! They're also testing
| 3-minute videos for some creators. My short films are all
| almost exactly a minute long, and I find it's a really fun
| storytelling challenge to create something meaningful in such
| a small time frame.
| nazgulnarsil wrote:
| okay a minute makes more sense that's about 150 words.
| ItsMonkk wrote:
| It's interesting because any time you see Part 1 within a
| video, that's a significant sign that it's a low quality
| video that is just stringing it out for viewtime and you
| should skip it.
|
| But of course there is quality content that lasts more
| than a minute. The work-around for the 1 minute limit
| that the community has built around is that the top up-
| voted comment is a link to the next part.
| honzzz wrote:
| After reading the closing thoughts, it seems to me that the
| author equates addictiveness with "world-class" product that
| people "love". That type of thinking scares me - hey HN crowd,
| how prevalent would you estimate it is between creators?
|
| And more broadly - how many of them even think about morality of
| what they are trying to build? How many still believe they are
| creating better world while intentionally trying to build
| addictiveness into their products, and how many just rationalize
| it by something like if I don't do it, someone else will, so I
| might as well do it (attitude I have noticed here surprisingly
| often)?
| xmprt wrote:
| I think addictive is a buzzword that people use nowadays. It
| doesn't mean the same as an alcohol or gambling addiction. It's
| more like finding something that just works and that you enjoy
| using. TikTok does have some actually damaging aspects but when
| the author uses addictive here, I think he's talking about
| building something that doesn't annoy people from using it.
| brundolf wrote:
| It's definitely an overloaded word. When someone says "I'm
| addicted to these new Marvel shows they've been coming out
| with", they (probably) don't mean it's a crippling habit
| that's ruining their life
| selfhoster11 wrote:
| I don't think it's a buzzword, or overused at all. A YouTube
| addiction is not as equally crippling as alcohol abuse, but
| it certainly is an addiction that I am currently fighting.
| deminature wrote:
| TikTok's recommendation algorithm is incredible, Instagram Reels
| is fundamentally the same feature on the mobile side, but the
| recommendation portion really lets it down and ensures TikTok is
| going to remain the dominant player in this space for the
| foreseeable future.
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