[HN Gopher] Reviews of Android TV launcher after Google added ad...
___________________________________________________________________
Reviews of Android TV launcher after Google added ads to the
homescreen
Author : pizza
Score : 625 points
Date : 2021-06-26 16:23 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (play.google.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (play.google.com)
| awill wrote:
| It's getting harder and harder to not switch to Apple for both a
| premium phone and a premium digital media player.
|
| I've always had a Pixel phone, and (since 2015), the Shield TV
| Pro. It seems like Google is actively trying to lose. They didn't
| make a premium Pixel last year, and they've never made a premium
| digital media player. Rather than being grateful for Nvidia
| building the premium device they couldn't, they're actively
| ruining it. I get having ads on a >$50 device, but not on the
| $200 Shield TV.
|
| Who's running things at Google?
| k4ch0w wrote:
| LG WebOs does the same thing. I haven't accepted the eula and
| stream from my Apple TV. However, a friend of mines wife did and
| now he has ads everywhere on it. I don't understand how this is
| so normalized?
|
| You actively have to work in order to block ads and trackers
| today. Its getting harder everyday. It's so sad we have some of
| our worlds best engineers working on how to send ads to people.
| Our priorities are whack.
| benhurmarcel wrote:
| Samsung's TV also put ads in the menu. I blocked them using
| Nextdns, at least that still works.
| nullify88 wrote:
| I own a Shield and I've yet to see an ad on the home screen. I'm
| up to date and logged in with Google but not Nvidia.
|
| Anyone else in Europe getting adverts?
| bitL wrote:
| Is Google anticipating going bankrupt?
| Shadonototro wrote:
| people are surprised?
|
| wait until you purchase a premium smart TV ;)
|
| that shit should be illegal
| temp8964 wrote:
| I hated FireTV exactly because of the ads. Now I am using Roku
| comes with the TV. Roku has ad too, but not overwhelming.
|
| In the future, maybe the only choice is no-brand Android TV box/
| stick which has ads removed.
| pixxel wrote:
| PiHole to remove those Roku ads! I have PiHole running on a
| five dollar Pi Zero. Just sits on a shelf doing its thing on
| all devices connected to network.
| djrogers wrote:
| > running on a five dollar Pi Zero.
|
| While technically accurate, you also need a $10 SD card, a $3
| usb cable, and a $5-10 power brick, so you're really looking
| at a $25 solution here.
| temp8964 wrote:
| I guess SD cards and USB cable don't count, because we all
| have some extra here and there?
|
| I never use SD cards, but I have at least four of them in
| my drawer...
| AshamedCaptain wrote:
| PiHole and similar ad-filtering proxies are a very fragile
| solution. The moment Google just decides to stream ads
| through the same domain as the "regular" content (e.g.
| updates, Play Store, etc.), what exactly is the PiHole going
| to do?
|
| This is not a "cat and mouse" game, like in-browser ad-
| blockers where the advertisers change something then the ad-
| blockers try to catch that. The in-browser ad-blockers have a
| lot more flexibility with blocking content since they are,
| basically, the consumer of that content.
|
| With PiHole, there is a point in which PiHole can just DO.
| NOTHING. to block content. If Google TV fetches its
| ads/spyware from playstore.google.com (for example), and uses
| https, what can PiHole do?
|
| Not even MitM, because Google will just pin the certificate.
| And let's not even get started on DNS-over-HTTPS...
|
| PiHole and the like are not long-term solutions.
| temp8964 wrote:
| Does it leave a blank space on the home screen? I feel I am
| fine with the Roku ad in a rectangle box on the side of the
| home screen.
| scrollaway wrote:
| Question to HN users: I have a dumb display attached to an nvidia
| shield. The Shield is nice: It's powerful enough, runs decent
| version of the common apps I care about (netflix, plex, youtube,
| spotify are the ones I use), and the remote is minimalistic and
| nice to use.
|
| Let's say I want to opt out of Google for this. What the hell do
| I do? I do have a Windows PC attached to the TV, for gaming, but
| if I wanted to run the apps above they wouldn't be optimized for
| TV input, they'd be cumbersome to use. Attaching a Linux box
| isn't going to work particularly well for gaming either.
|
| Seriously, what are the alternatives there?
| cf100clunk wrote:
| That's a great Ask HN question actually, as opposed to a
| comment here.
| scrollaway wrote:
| Fair point. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27644017
| tguvot wrote:
| you can replace launcher on shield
| syntaxing wrote:
| Not being snarky but an Apple TV
| scrollaway wrote:
| I briefly considered it. I've been entirely out of the Apple
| ecosystem so far (save for airpods). It sounds like Apple is
| gaining traction over time because the competition keeps
| getting worse and worse.
|
| I'm frankly not sure opting into Apple is a solution to the
| problem at large. It might be a temporary fix, but at the end
| of the day you're still using a proprietary system which
| might decide that ads are lucrative tomorrow.
| Aaargh20318 wrote:
| I would have gone for an Apple TV in a heartbeat if not for
| one, huge, problem: no support for bitstreaming audio. This
| means no DTS:X or Dolby Atmos in apps like Plex.
| vlozko wrote:
| It supports Atmos (not sure about DTS:X) but the reasoning
| behind decoding on device is for audio mixing for things
| like Siri. That said, I wouldn't have minded having a
| setting to let my receiver do the decoding.
| Aaargh20318 wrote:
| I think it supports DD + Atmos, not TrueHD + Atmos.
| sandgiant wrote:
| Apple TV?
| tyingq wrote:
| There are some workarounds in this Nvidea thread:
| https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/shield-tv/9/4579...
|
| None of them perfect, but you can roll back to what you had
| before.
| MiddleEndian wrote:
| I just use my Windows laptop, it's pretty good. You're not
| limited to anyone's apps, you choose what goes on. And you're
| probably already used to disabling whatever dumb ads Microsoft
| tries to put onto your machine.
| least wrote:
| Using a Windows laptop does not solve the part of the problem
| where Windows is not a friendly user interface for TV use.
| Android TV and Apple TV are nice to use because the interface
| is designed around sitting at your couch and controlling it
| with a remote with limited inputs.
|
| There's no such launcher on Windows that doesn't deal with
| the pitfalls of it being Windows. Even something like Steam's
| Big Picture doesn't really work very well in certain
| circumstances because you can be thrown out of the launcher
| onto the desktop unexpectedly by games it launches.
|
| I think the only way we could see a good implementation of
| this is if Microsoft themselves made it. They tried doing
| something like this with Windows Media Center but I think
| that they're better positioned to try again now that
| streaming services are ubiquitous.
| input_sh wrote:
| There's only one correct answer: https://kodi.tv/
|
| Works fine, but it is not the most stable software. Plenty of
| add-ons and themes, and (probably the reason why it's popular)
| you can sideload some pirate TV add-ons.
| bitL wrote:
| Aren't most of those add-ons depending on real-debrid now,
| meaning a $5/month subscription? Why not Netflix then?
| herbst wrote:
| No? Not the Kodi I have at least, it feels like a huge open
| source community with many clunky but usually working apps.
| scrollaway wrote:
| Last I used Kodi, it was a great app for, like, DIY
| entertainment management but utterly useless if you are
| expecting to use something like Spotify or YouTube.
|
| It has been a while though, so I might be outdated on this,
| but I'm guessing it's still not possible to log into spotify
| from it, browse the spotify library / your playlists, use
| device remote play from your phone to the tv, and so on. Same
| goes for youtube (though I do remember some useful-ish
| youtube plugins, they didn't go beyond logged-out browsing)
| input_sh wrote:
| Pretty sure Spotify works fine. They have a fully
| functioning API for premium users. Netflix might be a
| problem though.
| ajot wrote:
| If you have Kodi on Android, you can have "links" (I don't
| remember the name in Kodi, sorry) for the Spotify, Youtube,
| Netflix, etc Android apps within Kodi.
| herbst wrote:
| Logged in YouTube works fine. I use both (android and Kodi)
| and honestly it's not so much worse on Kodi. Plus you don't
| need to sideload apks to disable the current ad flood
| MrVitaliy wrote:
| Install another TV launcher app (I like Simple TV Launcher).
| Once installed, use Android dev tool on a remote
| laptop/workstation (platform-tools, adb.exe) to remotely
| connect to the Shield device and disable Google TV. The command
| to disable Google TV launcher is something like 'adb shell pm
| disable-user --user 0 google.android.tv'
|
| Once Google TV Launcher is disabled, Shield picks the next
| installed Launcher on your system as the default TV Launcher.
| Be aware that most 3rd party TV launchers aren't very
| configurable or polished but will launch your other apps. Maybe
| try a few different ones before disabling Google TV Launcher.
| scrollaway wrote:
| Thanks, I was not aware the launcher could be swapped out so
| easily. This seems like a decent option if I want to keep my
| Shield.
| notsureaboutpg wrote:
| Most tvs have multiple HDMI inputs, why not have your Windows
| PC for gaming and a Linux PC with Kodi or whatever you like.
|
| I personally just run mpv on my Linux box plugged into my TV
| and connected to a DLNA media server in my home and use my
| Android phone as a remote with KDEConnect, I'm not a big app
| person. I mostly watch YouTube videos my media server auto
| downloads when they are available from creators I like. For my
| family I have Netflix.
|
| You're right it's not as nice as using a TV remote though! I
| bet Kodi or Plex, etc. would be more navigable with a remote. I
| wonder if you can get a Bluetooth remote that connects to a
| PC...
| scrollaway wrote:
| The shield remote does use Bluetooth I believe, I haven't dug
| into its internals though.
|
| I kinda imagine that a "real solution" would involve some
| kind of Android environment, though. Your solution works, if
| the user has not opted into the youtube/spotify/netflix
| ecosystem. If they have, it's not a real solution.
|
| I care about my youtube account -- I pay for it, in fact. The
| recommendation engine is extremely good if you curate it, and
| I've curated it a ton. YouTube is a beast for
| knowledge/learning center. Spotify has a really good and
| extensive music library which makes "not pirating" a real
| option.
|
| At the end of the day, you need a good UI that implements the
| features of those services. No third party is working full-
| time to implement these in open source, and they'd likely
| shut down if they did. So relying on the upstream apps
| somehow makes sense.
| vtbg wrote:
| I have a Sony tv with Android, and I disabled or uninstalled
| anything google I could find. Still works perfectly.
| (Disclosure, I'm probably in HN's bottom 5th percentile in tech
| skills)
| zz865 wrote:
| LG WebOS has all this, except Spotify which was there but is
| gone now.
| HumblyTossed wrote:
| I have a Shield TV and I really despise this change. I bought a
| device that did NOT show ads on the home screen, now it does. How
| is that not... it just should NOT be allowed.
|
| Show me ads in YouTube, show me ads in whatever other app, but
| not my home screen. There's a difference. The home screen is
| MINE, not Google's.
| theturtletalks wrote:
| Google will chock this up to "staying" competitive. The Fire TV
| and Samsung Smart TVs have had ads on the menu for a while now.
| Ads on the home screen takes it further. If this was nipped in
| the bud, it would not have made it this far.
|
| People are slowly realizing these commissions don't care about
| consumers, just making it seem they do.
| utopiah wrote:
| > The home screen is MINE, not Google's.
|
| Android is owned by Alphabet (or Google if you prefer) and you
| decided to buy a device that runs their OS with their services
| that are not open source. You probably didn't even pay for the
| OS. What makes you think it is yours?
| HenryKissinger wrote:
| TIL I should create my own operating system from scratch if I
| don't want advertisements on my smart television.
|
| And people wonder why Congress wants to break up FAANG
| chimen wrote:
| https://imgflip.com/i/5emx6j
| rdiddly wrote:
| Shitty old DVDs from Goodwill are looking better all the time!
| MikusR wrote:
| With un-skippable intros and trailers.
| marinhero wrote:
| Can this be disabled via Pi-Hole?
| IanCal wrote:
| On the Nvidia shield, it's also just generally broken. Such
| absolutely basic easily reached things don't work.
|
| I've never experienced such a regularly broken bit of software.
|
| It's good enough that I prefer it over anything else I've tried
| bit my god I wish they'd leave features and make it work
| reliably.
|
| And now ads. We just removed all app channels so my son doesn't
| see ads as sometimes they'd be scary. Now he can see things he
| won't be able to watch.
|
| For fucks sake Google.
| arminiusreturns wrote:
| Advertisers are ruining the internet, how can we take them down a
| collective peg or ten? Congress is bought and paid for on both
| sides of the isle, so if you wanna address issues like this, you
| have to fix congress first, and the two parties are too far gone
| to ever be correctable.
|
| Its time for a radical shift away from party politics... if you
| want solutions that is.
| hashworks wrote:
| As an alternative to a different launcher you can block the
| domain responsible for the ads [0] in your DNS resolver. The
| Launcher will then fallback to less intrusive "ads" for the
| standard apps: YouTube, Google Play, Google Movies, etc.
|
| I've added it to the adaway.org list [1], so it might find its
| way into blocklists you are already using soon.
|
| [0] androidtvwatsonfe-pa.googleapis.com
|
| [1] https://github.com/AdAway/adaway.github.io/pull/261
| deanclatworthy wrote:
| Same approach for Samsung TVs. In fact nextdns has an option
| for Samsung ads explicitly so just enable that and point the
| TVs DNS to that. I presume this could be added to nextdns too
| with a custom url block.
| matthewrobertso wrote:
| I ran into this last week on my nvidia shield. Here's a summary
| of the workaround I found (apologies for not having the specific
| package names offhand):
|
| 1. Install a new launcher from play store (I found one called
| "Basic Launcher" that matches the aesthetics of the default one).
| This doesn't solve the problem though, because Google disabled
| changing the default launcher for some user hostile reason, until
| you delete the existing launcher.
|
| 2. Enable development mode by tapping on the build number in
| settings
|
| 3. Connect an adb shell to your device
|
| 4. Remove the built in launcher
|
| 5. Reboot, select basic launcher when prompted
|
| I own a few android TV devices, have recommended them to people
| in the past, and won't be purchasing another. I think what
| happened here should be illegal and shame on whoever worked on
| this.
| headmelted wrote:
| I was really disappointed to find the same problems with tvOS
| having moved from a pair of Shields.
|
| The ads hadn't rolled out yet on Shield when I moved over but
| for some reason I just assumed Apple wouldn't be shilling ads
| at me constantly for services I don't have, or trying to sell
| me content I already have access to.
|
| More fool me. Fire TV is worse, but I've heard Roku is much the
| same.
|
| The Smart TV ecosystem is rot all over.
| SixDouble5321 wrote:
| On Roku, not sure of the others, standard router-level
| adblock worked.
| xibo9 wrote:
| Can you be more specific? I have multiple Apple TV STBs and
| don't see what you're describing.
| easton wrote:
| They're probably talking about the Apple TV App on tvOS,
| which searches services you don't necessarily have. You can
| get rid of it though, so I don't know what the big deal is.
| foepys wrote:
| You can get rid of it - for now. That's what the whole
| thread is about: there weren't ads until there were.
|
| Years ago, the App Store also used to not show ads.
| wccrawford wrote:
| At first, I thought nVidia had done this, and I was cursing
| their name. After some searching, I discovered this is actually
| the stock launcher from Google instead.
|
| nVidia should absolutely get ahead of this to preserve their
| own reputation.
| vbezhenar wrote:
| That's Nvidia's choice to use default launcher. It's not like
| Google does not allow their partners to adapt OS. I agree
| about blaming Google first, but it's device from Nvidia,
| customer will not research where each particular application
| or part came from. If battery will blow up, nobody will blame
| some nameless chinese factory.
| brewdad wrote:
| I absolutely blame Nvidia for this. I fully expect ads on
| my $25 Fire Stick. It's part of the bargain with Amazon.
| There is no way there should be ads on a $150-200 device,
| especially when they have been added in well after
| purchase.
|
| Regardless of where they choose to lay blame, if Nvidia
| doesn't fix this I am done with their devices when it's
| time to replace them.
| adrr wrote:
| My $2000 top of the line Samsung tv is filled with ads. I
| assume LGs running android tv also got hit. Those TVs go
| up $3700 for their largest consumer OlED panel.
| sdefresne wrote:
| LG TV don't run Android TV. They run WebOS. So they
| probably have not been getting those ads.
| foepys wrote:
| There have been complaints about these Google Launcher
| ads with Sony TVs for months. It's the reason why I
| didn't update to Android 9 and disabled all automatic
| updates.
|
| Sony's "smart" TVs all come with Android TV (now called
| Google TV). Their top of the line OLED TV Sony Z9J starts
| at $8,000 in 75" and costs $10,000 in 85".
| m4rtink wrote:
| You mean, they should put in their own adds as well ? ;-)
|
| (I mean, their reputation in some circless is AFAIK quite bad
| - 500+ MB drivers requiring registration on windows, lack of
| cooperation on Linux drivers, nerfing of some of their GPUs
| for shady reasons, attempts to buy ARM, etc.)
| mctt wrote:
| >I manged to remove them...you go to All apps..scroll down to
| "Show system apps"...Android TV Home...Force stop... Uninstall
| updates => You will have old Home Screen
|
| https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/shield-tv/9/4579...
| bencollier49 wrote:
| Wouldn't that mean you had an insecure device?
| maccard wrote:
| Are you afraid of someone remotely pushing an update that
| pushes ads disguised as content to your device?
| hulitu wrote:
| > Wouldn't that mean you had an insecure device?
|
| So you mean ads are increasing security ?
| Decker87 wrote:
| Everything's a tradeoff.
| nonbirithm wrote:
| The big issue with major OS updates for me is that the
| security updates are bundled with the feature updates.
| That's why updating Android on my old phone stopped being
| feasable, when the increased performance requirements
| caused it to remain persistently hot and unresponsive.
|
| Not just the security updates, but also things like APIs
| that prevent some applications from being compatible.
| Still, I have to wonder how much of a tradeoff would be
| possible when all the code is managed together, and the
| security and feature updates would be interwoven in the
| same repo. There is only so much manpower available to keep
| maintaining every version of each update.
| kmonsen wrote:
| To be clear Android the operating system offers targeted
| security updates. The device manufactures prefers to
| package them with feature updates. I guess it doesn't
| matter for users.
| mschuster91 wrote:
| Aren't many core components now taken care of by the
| Google Play Services library that's updated separately to
| avoid carriers and manufacturers from delaying critical
| security updates because they need to package and test
| these with all their bloatware crap?
| lstamour wrote:
| New in iOS 14/15:
|
| > Software Updates
|
| > iOS now offers a choice between two software update
| versions in the Settings app. You can update to the
| latest version of iOS 15 as soon as it's released for the
| latest features and most complete set of security
| updates. Or continue on iOS 14 and still get important
| security updates until you're ready to upgrade to the
| next major version.
|
| https://www.apple.com/ios/ios-15-preview/features/
| ronsor wrote:
| Apple, the antithesis of user choice, is even now
| offering an option between upgrading and getting security
| updates.
| novok wrote:
| Apple is better in some choices vs others, and has been
| for a while.
| worble wrote:
| I'm really tired of companies hiding behind "security" when
| it comes to ruining my experience every time I get an
| update.
|
| If they want me to be secure, package essential security
| updates into seperate downloads.
| gary_0 wrote:
| I consider updates that break workflow or violate privacy
| to be security risks in themselves.
| rtkwe wrote:
| It's just the home screen so it shouldn't be that much of a
| security hole. If it were the OS it'd be a bigger concern.
| pmlnr wrote:
| Not automatically.
|
| So many updates these days have nothing to do with
| security, just with "feautes" nobody asked for apart from
| random product manager who needs his paycheck.
| WarOnPrivacy wrote:
| Ads are bad behavior they are protecting themselves from.
| matthewrobertso wrote:
| I looked through this thread when searching for a workaround
| but this method didn't work for me (2019 Shield TV Pro), I
| had to swap the launcher.
| tinybear1 wrote:
| Uninstalling the update also didn't work for me using my
| 2015 Shield.
| sureglymop wrote:
| Do you know of any Android TV / smart tv box which has a USB
| port?
|
| I am currently building a magic mirror like smart map.
| Basically, the goal is to have a big touchscreen with Google
| maps or Google earth running.
|
| For touch screen support I bought a cheap USB infrared frame. I
| have tested it with the USB C port of my Android phone and it
| works well, but I have sadly not found any Android TV box which
| has an USB port.
| lostlogin wrote:
| I used to put Xibo on crappy boxes like this one here for
| work. They never had the same internals, even if I used the
| same supplier. They usually thought they were a phone when
| you dug into their software.
|
| https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketplace/electronics-
| photogra...
| mschuster91 wrote:
| > Do you know of any Android TV / smart tv box which has a
| USB port?
|
| Build your own with a Raspberry Pi. The new ones pack quite
| some heat in terms of performance.
| kmonsen wrote:
| I think the new nvidia stick has a USB port if you
| disassemble it a tiny bit.
| TingPing wrote:
| I believe many that use usb for power, like Google's, are
| real ports that can be split with a hub.
| joombaga wrote:
| That's correct. The Chromecast w/ Google TV works with the
| same USB-C hub I use with my MacBook Pro and Nintendo
| Switch.
| grishka wrote:
| The very first one, ADT-1, does have a USB port. I have one,
| but it's a prototype kind of thing and Google never really
| sold these to the general public. I got mine at Google I/O.
| That said, you could probably find them on ebay.
| Jackdanie1s wrote:
| Check out the formuler boxes, the gtv is android certified
| dehrmann wrote:
| Anyone try LineageOS on a Shield? I'm guessing _everything_ is
| missing. I 'm not sure if that's bad, but I'd missing being
| able to Chromecast to it.
| somethingwitty1 wrote:
| Uninstalling didn't seem to work for me after reboot. If that
| doesn't work for you, try disabling it:
|
| 1. Install your new launcher through play store. (I used the
| Basic Launcher as well).
|
| 2. Settings -> Device Preferences -> About. Scroll to "Build"
| and click on it until it pops up that you are a developer (it
| will give you a countdown)
|
| 3. Settings -> Device Preferences -> Developer options (this
| was just unlocked in step 2) -> Network debugging (this will
| let you use adb)
|
| 4. Install adb (platform tools) on your computer.
|
| 5. adb connect <ip address of your shield>
|
| 6. adb shell pm disable-user --user 0
| com.google.android.tvlauncher
|
| 7. adb shell reboot
|
| _Should find yourself in the launcher you installed_ Note, I
| also stopped the google launcher (cleared data /reset
| defaults)/tested the new launcher in the middle. So if these
| steps don't seem to work, before doing step 5 try doing those
| and then retry.
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| You're a lifesaver. Wasn't able to get the 3rd party launcher
| going by default. Thanks!
| PostThisTooFast wrote:
| "Scroll to "Build" and click on it until it pops up that you
| are a developer"
|
| More bullshit. Google is king of shitty UI.
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| This has been infuriating. It's even more pushy now that I do
| not log into a Google Account on the Nvidia Shield because it
| requires giving Nvidia full account access.
|
| I have a Google notification that I cannot dismiss and 3
| buttons on my App menu that all take me to the Play Store that
| I cannot remove. I'm livid.
|
| This should be illegal and I'm frankly worried about Google's
| future if this is the kind of shit that they need to pull to
| continue to profit. Some of the brightest sw eng's around yet
| they do this shit rather than innovate. Lazy
| josteink wrote:
| This is just a gentle reminder that as long as you're happy to
| buy into walled gardens, the devices you buy are not truly yours.
|
| You're merely _in possession_ of them, with others allowed to set
| the rules.
|
| As an AppleTV user I could be totally smug about this, but
| there's nothing stopping Apple from making a similar move if they
| wanted to, and I wouldn't have jack shit to say about it.
|
| I've tried more open options and they all suck, but I hope one
| day there can come an open appliance-platform which at least is
| _usable_ and supports all the latest standards. Then I might be
| willing to give it a try.
| ris wrote:
| People with no control over the software they run get surprised
| when it does something they don't like. News at 11.
| phreack wrote:
| Wow, great timing. I was days away from buying a Shield, but I
| get irrationally mad when forced to see ads. I won't now, even if
| there's hacky workarounds.
| NietTim wrote:
| If history has taught us anything: this will blow over in a few
| weeks or months and everyone will get used to it in the end. The
| small percentage of users who (sometimes only temporarily) stop
| using the service is offset by the new income and the majority of
| users do not care.
| rishabhd wrote:
| Or, as Google is simply dialing it to 10 now, it will then dial
| this down to 5 post reactions and people will be okay with this
| eventually, unfortunately.
|
| When instead it should not have been done at the first place.
| jbluepolarbear wrote:
| If history taught us anything it's that people will move to
| less friction platform. I was long time Google, but over the
| last few years I've almost migrated completely to Apple. I know
| a lot of developers in my field (video games) that have done
| the same. Google is using its size and reach to fill my
| products with ads. I'm not an ad id and I want to be treated as
| such. Also, why is android such a bad development platform?
| Android is the worst part of mobile development and I'm glad I
| left it for good.
| laurent92 wrote:
| I remember when moving to Linux in 2010 (then Mac) being
| surprised that:
|
| - There were practically no ads, and especially no ads with
| easy traps such as "You have a virus, install this to remove
| it".
|
| - There were no OEM drivers, and thus no Askbar, the 404
| pages were really 404s, and the Search on Google bar really
| went to Google.com. That was new for me, coming from Windows.
|
| - If there were ads, on Mac, they were for higher-class
| products, not fast food.
|
| People joke about the 20% to 100% higher cost of Apple
| products, but being away from the grandma/noobs ecosystem has
| no price. Corollary: Grandmas and noobs endure an obnoxious
| OS experience, because advertisers know that a lot of them
| will click on traps like "Error 404. Enter your credit card
| to view content" (or, today, "Want in on the Bitcoin
| experience?").
| headmelted wrote:
| tvOS has the same problem I'm afraid.
| bitwalker wrote:
| Which problem? Because there aren't ads on the home screen,
| or even in the Apple TV app (other than promos for TV
| shows, but that's like...why you're there).
| jbluepolarbear wrote:
| And that's a feature that makes sense promote tv shows on
| your tv device. Most/all of the promoted shows are from
| apps already installed. Like the Disney+ Promo for Raya.
| I already had Disney+, so it was more of a hey watch this
| new content you're already paying for.
| timeinput wrote:
| I only have Hulu installed, and it's the only paid
| streaming service I use. I'm getting ads for peakcock and
| disney+ too.
| jbluepolarbear wrote:
| I use tvOS everyday and it's not the same.
| aardvarkr wrote:
| With ads that I can easily go into settings to turn off?
|
| That's the problem people are upset about is this is forced
| upon you with zero realistic alternatives. Apple puts it
| into the settings whereas you have to use adb to forcefully
| swap the launcher. That's a pretty bog difference c
| alisonkisk wrote:
| It's not a service like a subscription. It's the driver for a
| suite of hardware products that Google intentionally broke
| after the return window.
| cf100clunk wrote:
| History teaches us that HN readers are generally quite caring
| of these sort of intrusions into their previous "just right"
| setups and don't tend to just let it ride.
| judge2020 wrote:
| Keyword "HN Readers", not users. I'd be surprised if even 1%
| of all Android TV users were HN Readers.
| axlee wrote:
| > I'd be surprised if even 1% of all Android TV users were
| HN Readers.
|
| Remove some magnitudes, and then some more.
| cf100clunk wrote:
| That misconstrues my comment: I believe that HN readers
| (and users) care about topics like this over the long haul
| and don't tend to just let intrusions like Google's slide
| by without opprobrium. Thus, to me, the parent comment
| doesn't wash.
| ajsnigrutin wrote:
| Yep, 16 new libreelec installs will appear, and thousands of
| google tvs will be sold in the meantime.
| cf100clunk wrote:
| That is kind of a twist on the old "nobody ever got fired
| for using IBM" idea regarding marketplace saturation:
| "nobody ever complained about Google"?
| ajsnigrutin wrote:
| I mean.. honestly, if I had to set up some "media device"
| for a relative, I'd pick google over anything else...
| usually it just works, it's simple, if something doesn't
| work, "it's googles fault", if something isn't supported,
| again, googles fault. ...basically same as with IBM.
|
| At home... libreelec. +importing ipvt playlists... +epg,
| which gets banned by the telco, and then reappears
| somewhere else. +subtitle services. +this and that
| plugin.
| [deleted]
| pedrogpimenta wrote:
| As is with everything like the uproar Facebook as had with
| their changes. They even admit it with "we will not apply these
| changes for now" becauae they know it will die out.
|
| That's why we need alternatives.
| vincnetas wrote:
| They will ratchet, small step at a time. Not sure how the rope
| snapping will look like...
| indymike wrote:
| > this will blow over in a few weeks or months and everyone
| will get used to it in the end.
|
| After seeing screen after screen of one-star reviews, I'm not
| sure this one will just blow over. People are very, very
| unhappy with the update.
| derimagia wrote:
| It's a bit skewed since it's a default system installed app
| and people generally aren't going to rate it unless they are
| unhappy but hopefully it doesn't blow over. I agree that
| there are a lot of people who are unhappy (including myself).
| bryik wrote:
| Previously, I bought Pixel devices with confidence in Google's
| stewardship and taste. Now that Google has injected ads into a
| $200 device I bought a year ago, I can only assume that all
| Google products will eventually have ads. Why would I ever buy
| another pixel phone? $699+ for a phone that will some day have
| ads on its home screen? No thanks.
| hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
| The one thing I like about Google's now many-years obsolete "do
| no evil" slogan is that it shows how it is _impossible_ for
| companies to not eventually become "evil" once that's their only
| open easy revenue stream.
|
| Without debating what "evil" really means in this context, in the
| early days of a company there are plenty of ways to grow without
| being actively user hostile. Once those avenues are thoroughly
| maxed out, any company that is basically only measured by growth
| (i.e. every public company) will have to slide more and more into
| things that only boost revenue to the detriment of users.
|
| I mean, this change is so _blatantly_ abusive and user hostile,
| and something that _never_ would have been greenlit in, say, the
| 00s, just shows how far Google has decayed.
| lostlogin wrote:
| > it is impossible for companies to not eventually become
| "evil" once that's their only open easy revenue stream.
|
| Google doesn't lack revenue streams, it just wants to maximise
| all of them ans make new ones. It's the constant desire for
| growth and the mantra that 'standing still is going baxkwards'
| that I find repulsive.
| Retric wrote:
| This assumes being evil is free. Google, Facebook etc are
| trading long term value for short term gains.
|
| DuckDuckGo users are funding ddg's growth and R&D which makes
| it a better product over time. Google essentially converted
| some minimal short term gains into an existential threat.
| Assuming they become widely known as the worse search engine
| it's extremely difficult to regain users.
|
| Facebook bought out several competitors, but Facebook.com for
| example has serious issues with younger demographics. At this
| point any platform they don't buy risks killing the company.
| Nextgrid wrote:
| > Once those avenues are thoroughly maxed out, any company that
| is basically only measured by growth [...] will have to slide
| more and more into things that only boost revenue to the
| detriment of users.
|
| In this case, the law or regulation is supposed to step in. The
| problem is that the law pretty much stopped advancing when it
| comes to the digital world, at least when it benefits the
| consumer.
| LeifCarrotson wrote:
| The law is advancing at it's usual pace. Some highlights
| include the Magna Carta in 1215, the Constitution in 1787,
| the Emancipation in 1863, the 19th Amendment in 1920, the
| Civil Rights Act of 1964...if anything, progress is happening
| more quickly now than ever.
|
| It's just that culture/society/law change far slower than
| technology. Most US Senators are over 65, with associated
| world-views and educations more than half a century old. A
| quarter century ago, neither smart TVs, targeted ads, nor
| Google itself existed.
|
| Children today are warned about Internet tracking tools,
| privacy management, they're aware of the creepy omnipresent
| big brother nature of tech, perhaps in 2080 Congress will be
| ready to address these issues.
| kmonsen wrote:
| Another one of Google's tenets that have been forgotten is
| focus on the user. First it meant just focus on the user, then
| it became well we are focusing on the user when we do deceptive
| ads because then they get other services for free, then it was
| completely forgotten.
|
| I think there was a time when Apple was screwing up for a while
| and just making things shittier with new releases that Android
| actually was better. That time is now gone.
|
| Edit: the iPhone keyboard really hates swearing though.
| vishnugupta wrote:
| These days, it's difficult (almost impossible) find a dumb large
| TV in India. So I bought next best thing, a non-Google smart
| TV[1]. The UI is snappy. Soon I plan to hook it up with Apple TV.
|
| [1] https://www.flipkart.com/philips-6600-146-cm-58-inch-
| ultra-h...
| jonahbenton wrote:
| Was deeply frustrated last year when it became clear in the US
| market at least that dumb TVs no longer exist, not unless one
| wants to pay the 4x premium for buying a gaming monitor and using
| it as a TV.
|
| Decided to buy an Android TV, one that would not need a network
| connection on the Android side for HDMI input mode to work, and
| just keep a computer plugged into it. Lack of sensible remote
| control is annoying. But forced ads are infuriating.
| easton wrote:
| From an older comment I made:
|
| Find the hospitality version of whatever you want from CDW
| (Samsung and LG do a lot of them, idk about Sony). They are
| designed for hotels and hospitals, and have the same picture
| quality but no smart stuff. An example from Samsung:
| https://www.cdw.com/product/samsung-678u-series-55-4k-uhd-le...
| deadbunny wrote:
| Thanks for the tip
| Bud wrote:
| It's astonishing to me that anyone who bought an Android or
| Google-centric TV product of any kind would expect anything other
| than that. They exist to track you and sell you ads. Period,
| paragraph.
|
| This is their business model. Accept it, or buy Apple TV plus a
| dumb TV (or a stupid "smart" TV with all network features
| permanently disabled).
|
| Those are the only options.
| poidos wrote:
| Sharing what I learned trying to find a dumb TV:
|
| It appears that the two main options for 4K, non-networked TVs
| are 'business-grade' panels (e.g. [0]) and Sceptre[1], which
| are always out of stock.
|
| I haven't bought either yet (my dumb 1080p panel was working
| just fine until this week,) but I am planning on upgrading
| soon.
|
| [0]: https://www.sharpnecdisplays.us/products/displays
|
| [1]: https://www.sceptre.com/
| nfoz wrote:
| There have been prior threads on HN about dumb tvs with
| several options. The LG "Commercial Lite" (for Business)
| series has some non-smart options, at least in Canada. It was
| just a few years ago I got my 55" 4k LG dumb tv for $1000 CAD
| and it's great. Though the market may have changed somewhat.
| Good luck
| implying wrote:
| For frustrated HN users, I have managed to remove the ads by
| uninstalling all updates to android home, disabling "TV core
| services" and "Google Play Services". You'll also need to disable
| automatic updates in the play store.
|
| This won't let you sign into Google apps anymore, but most major
| apps work fine after a reboot.
| cf100clunk wrote:
| Great info - an alternative to Google Store is Aurora Store,
| which allows most apps to update anonymously.
| temac wrote:
| Why people thought Google would suddenly stop being an
| advertisement company? (And pivot to what exactly overnight?)
| That's both in their DNA _and still_ their overwhelming largest
| business. Of course don 't buy a "smart" TV (that would probably
| be described more accurately as an "idiotic not-maintained-a-lot-
| IOT TV with more heavy planned obsolescence than usual"), but if
| you do, of course stay away from Google.
| andrefuchs wrote:
| Any suggestions for an Ad Blocker or different Android TV
| launcher?
| alisonkisk wrote:
| Interesting but why now? Based on the dates, this change came in
| April? Or did people update old reviews but keep the old
| timestamp?
| pizza wrote:
| I posted it just now bc I just came across this today (have an
| nvidia shield but haven't had a chance to use it in a few
| months)
| techlaw wrote:
| I am hopeful that now that the FTC has a pro-consumer Chair that
| some of these anti-consumer acts will be curtailed.
|
| I would also argue that some of these bad acts could be
| considered to be false / deceptive trade practices under the
| various state laws (in the U.S. at least). For example, some
| people would never have bought a FireTV cube for streaming video
| if Amazon had revealed that they would be adding advertisements
| to the consumer's video-viewing experience.
|
| But: how much incentive is there for individuals to file a small
| claims suit against Amazon for a $79 device? Generally speaking
| you might get treble damages but not much more unless you've had
| actual damages.
|
| And although class action suits are frustrating and should be
| "fixed" so that those harmed get the bulk of the proceeds (i.e.
| it's not okay that consumers receive discount coupons or $10
| checks while plaintiff's counsel receives a disproportionally
| huge payday) this is one thing we've lost by generally not
| allowing class actions.
|
| David v. Goliath is not as effective as 15,000 Davids v. Goliath.
|
| Not to even mention the mandatory arbitration imposed on
| consumers (which do sometimes carve out the ability to file in
| small claims court).
|
| We have cultivated, or at least allowed, a very anti-consumer
| bias to take hold in U.S. law.
| gpt5 wrote:
| The worst part is that google _is_ abusing its power to limit
| people choices. They are enforcing terms on their phone
| partners that if they want Android (their only choice), they
| have to not use Fire OS or other Android forks on _any_ device
| they make. You can read more here -
| https://www.protocol.com/google-android-amazon-fire-tv
|
| The fact that they use the monopoly power on the phone to force
| Manufacturers to use Android TV is insane to me. The fact that
| they then quickly made the experience extremely anti consumer
| is a playbook monopoly play.
| tdy_err wrote:
| Don't be evil?
| Piskvorrr wrote:
| ... evil is what _we_ say is evil.
|
| That's the context - they can't do evil, by definition! (By
| circular definition, sure.)
| donmcronald wrote:
| > And although class action suits are frustrating and should be
| "fixed" so that those harmed get the bulk of the proceeds (i.e.
| it's not okay that consumers receive discount coupons or $10
| checks while plaintiff's counsel receives a disproportionally
| huge payday)
|
| I don't understand why most people have a problem with this.
| It's the company that sold you the $79 product that cheated
| you. Be upset with them.
|
| Personally, I don't care if I get $0 out of a class action
| lawsuit. I've already been cheated out of my money, so my main
| concern is punishing the company that ripped me off so they
| don't do it again.
|
| Class action lawyers get a lot of hate, but those firms are
| fronting a ton of money and taking a ton of (monetary) risk by
| litigating on behalf of the class. They deserve a big reward
| when they win.
|
| If you want to change the system, impose MASSIVE penalties on
| the companies that are cheating consumers. Make them pay 3-5x
| the going rate for the plaintiff's lawyers PLUS 100% refunds to
| all the customers that got ripped off.
|
| Then the shenanigans will stop.
| yellowfish wrote:
| there's nothing wrong with ads on stuff like this; televisions
| aren't sacred ground.
| unethical_ban wrote:
| If I know about it, then yes. Like Amazon putting ads on
| their Kindle lock screens unless you pay an extra $20.
|
| I bought my Shield as a premium device, not expecting the
| launcher to change substantially - much less to put ads on
| the screen.
| hulitu wrote:
| Of course it is not. We shall have ads, microfones and
| cameras everywhere.
| simonh wrote:
| There's nothing wrong with it, if you are told about this up
| front and it's part of your purchasing calculation.
|
| Retroactively adding ads to an ad-free device after the
| customer has purchased it, sometimes buying it specifically
| to avoid competing devices with ads, is inexcusable bullshit.
| shmolf wrote:
| If you subscribe to cable/satellite television, you expect
| there to be advertising. I'm not certain, but i suspect the
| agreement you sign while signing up for cable or streaming
| services, would include some sort of advertising clause.
|
| Ie, u less a service explicitly promotes am ad-free
| experience, there should be no expectations of such.
| teekert wrote:
| I guess I can come to your house tomorrow and paint some
| ads on the walls, or were you promised an ad free
| experience?
| leesalminen wrote:
| How about their car's infotainment system? Can we start
| showing them ads when stopped at a light or were they
| promised an ad free experience there as well?
| jiofih wrote:
| You're late to the game, Ford is working on that already.
| ethbr0 wrote:
| I mean, it's been the new hotness at gas stations for a
| minute now. Which is something childhood me never would
| have expected.
|
| "Once screens and connectivity costs fall below a
| threshold, advertising is guaranteed to follow."
| [deleted]
| jyrkesh wrote:
| This isn't about a service, it's about devices. The
| Google TV launcher is the de-facto UI for Android TV
| devices (like my Nexus Player, which is...7 YEARS OLD and
| now gets ads) and Google/Android TV-powered TVs, which
| are made by a bunch of different manufacturers. While my
| Nexus Player is rooted and I could theoretically install
| a different launcher, many of these TVs can't be
| modified. So if you purchased a TV thinking that it's
| smart capabilities were like a dumb OS UI into services
| like Netflix or Hulu (which may or may not have ads in
| their service agreement, as you point out), now they're
| getting pushed Amazon Fire-esque ads that prioritize
| spending money with Google from the UI over the services
| that you want to use.
| malcolmgreaves wrote:
| Super wrong. Google sold one product then removed
| functionality after sale. That's very illegal.
| rconti wrote:
| A good parallel is the recent Peloton Treadmill update (as
| a result of the CPSC suit). You used to be able to use the
| treadmill without video content, it worked as a treadmill;
| you only had to pay for a subscription if you wanted
| Peloton content on the screen. This seems fairly obvious to
| anyone buying the device, and makes sense. I buy a
| treadmill, I can use the treadmill forever, but if i want
| content, I pay a monthly fee.
|
| When they push a software update that makes the treadmill
| unusable without the subscription, now you're tied to not
| only paying for the service (at whatever price they decide
| that week), but you're also tied to the company itself
| continuing to exist and OFFER content.
|
| A bunch of lawsuits have been filed, I'm sure it'll be
| reverted to 'the way it was' soon. (I honestly believe it
| was a largely clumsy move in trying to quickly tie a PIN
| code to the software to keep kids/unauthorized users from
| turning it on).
|
| But it's a parallel here. My Google TV device might show
| ads on the TV network, but you pay for the device to not
| get ads on the home screen like the awful Fire Stick I
| have. (every time you hit 'play' to try to unpause a
| program, you are actually hitting 'play' on the terrible ad
| they gave you).
| the_snooze wrote:
| A lot of "innovation" in consumer tech is really just
| turning previously-standalone devices into subscription
| platforms and/or billboards. I'm sure the engineers who
| build these are proud of their contributions to society.
| thereddevil wrote:
| This is a bad take on Peloton. Peloton made it
| subscription only because the default user experience had
| bad design in that treadmills can be pin locked only if
| the customer is subscribed. In order to compensate for
| the bad design peloton has offered 3 months of
| subscription for free and has promised to add the pin
| lock feature to non subscribers soon.
|
| Not that I agree with anything Peloton has done in this
| situation, but you make it sound much worse than it
| already is.
| Retric wrote:
| There is a huge problem with selling something and then
| making it worse after people buy it.
| jbluepolarbear wrote:
| Nothing wrong. But I and many others have migrated away from
| google products because of actions like this.
| sli wrote:
| The constant bombardment of expectations that you'll spend
| more money is normalized, but it is not ok.
| Rapzid wrote:
| I bought a FireStick 4k to connect to my monitor since most
| services won't steam 4k to the PC. Have been very disappointed
| that the whole experience seems to be geared around promoting
| content instead of allowing me to interact with the content I
| HAVE ALREADY PAID FOR.
| radley wrote:
| > mandatory arbitration
|
| Actually, mandatory arbitration can massively backfire, and the
| ad change seems like a compelling case.
|
| Example: https://www.vox.com/2020/2/12/21133486/doordash-
| workers-10-m...
| techlaw wrote:
| Yes -- thanks for pointing this out.
|
| Unfortunately I have seen recently some arbitration clauses
| now include language saying, for example, that arbitration
| costs will be shared equally(!) or otherwise limiting their
| use by consumers.
|
| However, the more that these mandatory arbitration clauses
| limit consumer rights the more likely that they will be found
| to be unenforceable. This is one reason that you'll often
| find that contracts with mandatory arbitration will have a
| clause specifying that in the event the arbitration clause is
| unenforceable that the rest of the agreement still stands.
|
| The MegaCorps add this clause because they _know_ that they
| are pushing the boundaries of what will be allowed by the
| courts.
|
| Historically arbitration was intended to be a solution for
| parties of comparable bargaining power (e.g. MegaCorpABC vs
| MegaCorpXYZ) but instead are increasingly used by MegaCorp vs
| LittleConsumer.
|
| Does anybody in the U.S. have a credit card that doesn't
| impose mandatory arbitration? Not that I've seen.
|
| This is a topic that deserves much more news coverage. Most
| consumers have no clue how mandatory arbitration is being
| used against them.
|
| And that's before we even consider their more egregious use
| in, for example, employment agreements as was the case in the
| article you've shared.
| meibo wrote:
| I use a DNS-level adblocker and was wondering what those black
| blocks on the home screen were supposed to be.
|
| Should've guessed it was ads.
| sackerhews wrote:
| Wanna bet how long until they start using own API for DNS
| lookup? I say 2 years.
|
| Stakes are 1 karma point.
| Softcadbury wrote:
| I wonder, does the hardware makers have a word to say about it ?
| Do they get a cut ? As I see it, it can impact sales (just look
| at how many times the shield is mention here)
| donohoe wrote:
| Roku started doing this (though seems less intrusive so far than
| this) and its why I ditched it for an AppleTV.
|
| My big fear is that Apple will do the same in years to come but
| for now it is all we have.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| I'm hoping they have some idea that a chunk of their obscene
| levels of wealth comes from attracting customers who will opt
| for their garden to avoid the crap providers that push ads.
| vlozko wrote:
| They haven't done so for 14 years. Given their posturing on
| privacy and their history, it stands to reason it'll still be
| like this for another decade at least.
| wly_cdgr wrote:
| The simplest and most productive solution is to throw away your
| TV as it serves no good purpose
| mmind wrote:
| <300 reviews out of 50+ million downloads. Not sure the big deal,
| people can just use other launchers and the ads are relevant.
| Chromecast with GTV has had this for a while and people like it
| because they are relevant.
| billyhoffman wrote:
| I hate to be that guy, but this is exactly why I happily paid for
| an Apple TV. Yes, it's $100 more than basic streaming sticks, but
| I have never had to worry about ads suddenly appearing after an
| update. This whole space is a race to the bottom with sticks
| being sold at or below cost because you are the product. For
| example, Vizio revealing in their first quarterly report as a
| public company that they get nearly as much revenue from selling
| ads and viewer usage data than from selling physical televisions.
|
| https://www.engadget.com/vizio-q1-earnings-inscape-013937337...
|
| A smooth, clean ad-free experience is certainly worth the extra
| price if you can afford it.
| gambiting wrote:
| >> but I have never had to worry about ads suddenly appearing
| after an update
|
| The problem is that Android TV users used to think the exact
| same thing. It's even said in the reviews explicitly by some
| people. I don't and I won't trust a corporation, be it Apple or
| Google, to _not_ do something in a future update - if it works
| fine _right now_ then unfortunately that has to be good enough.
| prepend wrote:
| Not all companies are equal.
|
| Some make money by selling things so they have an incentive
| to keep happy customers. Some companies don't.
| ehsankia wrote:
| U2.
| gambiting wrote:
| Of course. But companies change all the time - today Apple
| is very privacy focused and we can reasonably say they
| wouldn't do such a thing. Can you absolutely guarantee that
| they won't in 2 years? In 5? in 10? What if the CEO changes
| and they think that ad-derived value is the best thing
| ever?
|
| Like, this isn't meant to be a post against Apple btw. Just
| that I don't see a point in saying "company X did a bad
| thing, that's why I buy company Y, they would never do
| this!" - they don't right now, that's what counts. But for
| the future? Who knows.
| least wrote:
| We have to make _reasonable assumptions_ when making
| purchasing decisions. Just because something could happen
| does not make it a likely thing to happen and assuming
| that any company is equally likely to start serving
| advertisements on their devices is unreasonable and
| foolish.
|
| While people may not have had the foresight to know that
| Google would be adding advertisements to their tv box,
| the behavior itself isn't unexpected given that Google is
| an advertising company. For Apple the behavior is both
| unexpected and disincentivized by the brand they've built
| for themselves.
|
| I could die tomorrow but living my life under that
| impression would be foolish.
| vesinisa wrote:
| Apple subjects its users to entirely different type of
| abuse: purposeful incompatibility and vendor lock-in on
| every imaginable level from cable connectors to keyboard
| layouts. You always have to go all in to their ecosystem
| and pay a 50% premium on everything just for the Apple
| logo.
|
| I guess it's a choice of if you want to bend over at the
| checkout or at home when you have started using the
| product.
| prepend wrote:
| Of course I can't guarantee it, no one can.
|
| But it's more likely if a company's business model
| doesn't involve ads vs does.
|
| Past performance doesn't guarantee future performance,
| but it's the best we got.
| Engineering-MD wrote:
| The future is uncertain, that is life. But while a
| company is privacy focussed, reward that behaviour so
| they (or their new competitors for when they stop
| supporting privacy it) know people vote with wallets.
| fny wrote:
| Unfortunately Apple TV remotes are a nightmare to use. The
| touch UX is an absolute pain.
| gumby wrote:
| Use your phone as the remote. I agree the ones they ship are
| dreadful.
| kmonsen wrote:
| Just use the TV remote and hdmi cec.
| djrogers wrote:
| The new one is great - your complaint is an old one.
| ypcx wrote:
| On the Apple TV 2021 4K's remote you can disable the touch
| and just use the buttons, like I have done. Works a treat.
| larusso wrote:
| Yeah sadly the Nvidia Shield is in the same ballpark when it
| comes down to the price. I have both an Apple TV 4K and an
| Nvidia Shield. I bought the shield when Apple had no 4K device
| as an alternative to get 4K HDR on Netflix. But I decided to
| shell out money again for an AppleTV 4K because they offered
| better support for HDR in movies and the general support to
| adopt features like Dolby Athmos is way faster on Apple. With
| Nvidia one had to be lucky to be in a partnership group as they
| were with the HDR adoption on Netflix. My PS4 was not able to
| play the content in HDR at the time since the Netflix app
| needed and update. It took nearly 6 more month.
|
| I didn't update the shield in quite some time as most new
| features are of no interest to me. And from the looks of it
| that won't happen anytime soon. It's worse enough that google
| did the same with the YouTube app ...
| larusso wrote:
| I just realized that android tv and Nvidia shield experience
| are two different things. So it did and auto update. Bloody
| ...
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| Can you sideload? Is there NewPipe? Pass. No ads but no choice.
| It solves one issue but creates another.
| novok wrote:
| Yeah i agree, s-tube and newpipe are really great and you'd
| never get that on an apple tv.
|
| Would've gone for an apple tv otherwise
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| Same. If Apple opened up their devices I'd switch
| everything over in a heartbeat.
| dre85 wrote:
| I totally agree. I can't imagine paying the price of a
| premium laptop for a phone without newpipe.
| swiley wrote:
| I hate to be that guy (no I don't) but this is why I just
| plugged one of the spare outputs on my PC into the TV with a
| 20ft HDMI extension cable and use a bluetooth keyboard/mouse to
| open movies from the living room.
| cortesoft wrote:
| So now I can't use my computer when my kids watch tv?
| swiley wrote:
| Xorg supports multi headed setups. I don't personally do
| that since there are only two people in my house but you
| should be able to set it up pretty easily.
| djrogers wrote:
| That's really a solo person solution. Anyone with a family in
| the house will need better, and anyone with family elsewhere
| can't exactly recommend such a kludge without opening up a
| ton of support issues.
| swiley wrote:
| In that case just get a cheap computer (that's all these
| set top boxes are anyway) to keep in the living room.
| whatgoodisaroad wrote:
| Apple TV is ad free so long as you don't count the un-
| dismissable 1p promos for Apple TV+ trials and Apple Arcade
| trials.
| sedatk wrote:
| I think this would be a great time for Apple to release an
| actual TV. I know of no major TV brand that doesn't employ some
| kind of tracking or advertisement. Even LG has devolved into
| that pit.
| rglullis wrote:
| You know what else can give you a smooth, ad-free experience
| and _freedom_? Any cheap mini-pc with Kodi installed.
| vladvasiliu wrote:
| Does it support Full HD (at least) streaming from Netfilx and
| / or Prime?
|
| My setup is like GP's, ie I play the videos on the computer,
| but what bothers me personally is that I have to boot windows
| to get the high quality streaming.
|
| I've looked specifically at Kodi maybe a year ago and it
| didn't seem to support this. I'm OK with tinkering if I know
| it's actually possible to get this working.
| rglullis wrote:
| The only service I subscribe to is njalla VPN, which I can
| then use to download any movie or TV show I want, in
| whatever quality I want and I get to keep it for as long as
| I want... can't get any smoother than that.
| djrogers wrote:
| Yeah, but can it do that out-of-the-box with zero effort for
| the rest of my family? Sadly, no.
|
| Futzing with Kodi updates, patches, updates to the OS,
| drivers, etc is all way too much to be considered 'smooth'
| for most.
| crtasm wrote:
| We've got a RPi running https://osmc.tv/ (based around
| Kodi) - other than pressing yes to install updates every so
| often it hasn't needed touching. There might even be an
| auto update at 1am type option.
|
| It only gets used for local media + radio, twitch and
| youtube streams though - I don't know about other services.
| throwzaway20102 wrote:
| The number of people who don't understand this is shocking.
| rglullis wrote:
| Oh, yes, the old America's motto: "Give me _convenience_ or
| give me death! "
|
| Joking aside, there is not much futzing around to do if you
| just go with LibreElec, and you can even buy pre-installed
| boxes nowadays.
| emptyparadise wrote:
| https://hard-drive.net/spend-80-snes-classic-can-install-
| emu...
| ocdtrekkie wrote:
| Indeed. It's hard to sympathize with people upset about ads
| when they bought a platform made by an ad company. The outcome
| was obvious here.
| frereubu wrote:
| This is pretty unsympathetic, and tacitly assumes that
| everyone has an understanding of the tech ecosystem.
| pier25 wrote:
| Apple products are luxury items for the vast majority of
| people in the world.
| timeinput wrote:
| I didn't realize nVidia was an ad company. Their business
| model sure has changed.
| thiht wrote:
| I bought a Sony TV, not a Google one. I would have expected
| Sony to disallow this somehow.
| josefx wrote:
| As far as I understand Googles Play Store comes with a
| viral license that forces preferential treatment for Google
| services on all Android devices made by a manufacturer
| unless they are sold in a country where that kind of anti
| competitive behavior is not tolerated. Basically Sonys
| choice is let Google rape its customers or kill all its
| Android based products over night.
| LordDragonfang wrote:
| The majority of people on the planet have phones running an
| OS made by the same ad company, and they'd be rightfully
| pissed if their home screens were suddenly was dominated by
| ads.
| pier25 wrote:
| The Nvidia Shield Pro is more expensive than the Apple TV...
| lern_too_spel wrote:
| Apple TV shows Apple TV+ ads on the homescreen. The big
| difference is that Android TV lets you replace the launcher
| entirely, while Apple TV leaves you to Apple's whims.
| knolan wrote:
| I recently bought my first Apple TV after dumping our Virgin
| Media cable box. I still have an ancient 1080p LG smart TV that
| that the smart features are effectively unusable on. I'll never
| buy a smart TV again if I can help it.
|
| I've always used my PS4 for streaming services but the bloody
| thing was so loud. I've replaced the PS4 with a PS5 but it
| doesn't have the national broadcaster's crappy app and we
| wanted to keep access to these channels.
|
| I've been pleasantly surprised by the Apple TV. It surfaces
| shows across my streaming apps without pushing TV+ in your
| face. It integrates beautifully with the Apple ecosystem, I can
| ask Siri on any device to play $show on Disney+ in the living
| room and it just works.
|
| I've heard how bad the old remote was but the new one is really
| nice. I've paired my dualshock 4 controller to it for Apple
| Arcade and it works great.
|
| The Apple TV is a device that doesn't get much attention but I
| think it's really impressive.
| fshbbdssbbgdd wrote:
| A correction - the article says Visio makes almost as much
| _profits_ on ads and data ($38M) as hardware ($48M). In my
| view, the surprising thing here is how little money the
| hardware business makes. TVs are a low-margin product, so the
| revenues there are certainly higher. Visio sold 7 million TVs
| last year, and TVs last some years, so I'd estimate they have
| an install base of tens of millions and are making about $1 per
| TV per year in ads and data, which is obviously less than a TV
| costs. My takeaway is that this is a terrible business to be
| in, given that a leading brand is making so little per TV.
| Robotbeat wrote:
| Yeah, Apple products have a reputation as "luxury" products,
| but the value is solid. For instance, with few exceptions,
| their phones receive updates for at least 6 years after
| release. Cheap android phones will be lucky to see 2 and even
| Samsung only does like 4 (and that's recent... before it was
| 3). The iPhone 4S was updated for 93 months, almost 8 years.
|
| I generally prefer more open ecosystems, but Apple has built a
| pretty strong reputation for not just being an ad company and
| for making solid products that are supported much longer than
| competitor devices.
| oezi wrote:
| Also all manufacturers which are not tracking Google's
| updates in a monthly interval are essentially worthless from
| a security perspective. Nobody needs to care about the latest
| Android version, which is only bringing marginal improvements
| amyway.
| neuk wrote:
| I love my Apple TV but the Shield is my go to player simply for
| the audio passthrough of audio formats such as TrueHD and DTS-
| HD which last time I checked are not supported by the Apple TV!
| fartcannon wrote:
| Google, Microsoft, Apple, Facebook - we power their abuses with
| our money. Just stop buying their trash. Support open hardware,
| free and open source software.
| jsilence wrote:
| Like the otter box for example:
| https://hackaday.com/2021/04/06/you-otter-be-able-to-stream-...
| cf100clunk wrote:
| People bought devices that did not show the ads. Now Google has
| forced those ads onto those devices. So, hindsight being 20/20,
| this is yet another abuse.
| LegitShady wrote:
| You're not wrong, but what should be the narrative to any
| future devices like this is:
|
| "They change it after selling it to you for the worse, don't
| buy their products."
|
| When that becomes the reputation the problem will solve
| itself when they stop selling them from bad reputation.
| johnchristopher wrote:
| And how much billions is the marketing budget to get that
| narrative successful ? /s
| alisonkisk wrote:
| It's still vandalistic destruction of property Google
| doesn't own. Google and their hardware partners owe refunds
| to all these customers.
| wutbrodo wrote:
| I'm sympathetic to the idea that there are implicit
| expectations during a purchase that shouldn't ideally be
| violated. But I'm curious if you truly believe this, or
| if it's just hyperbole.
|
| In this "fully my property, not a service I'm using"
| framework, would an update that patches a security
| vulnerability be "altruism"? Would refusal on Google's
| part to patch vulnerabilities be a completely acceptable
| refusal to futz with someone's property?
|
| This is a serious question; my perspective is that "I
| thought I was buying unchanging property" is disingenuous
| unless you're similarly surprised by app updates and
| maintenance (let alone feature development). The
| expectation of these updates makes it pretty clear to me
| that this resembles a service more than a static product
| that Google has ability to "vandalize" (or responsibility
| to maintain).
| swebs wrote:
| After a certain point, you have to start noticing patterns.
| arnaudsm wrote:
| Kodi+Jellyfin is amazing, I'll never use closed source stuff on
| my TV again.
| afavour wrote:
| Very difficult to do when it comes to entertainment. Almost all
| streaming services have locked down DRM that makes running open
| source software very difficult.
|
| (I know someone will say "just pirate it then!" but even
| putting moral obligations aside that's still not realistic for
| the average viewer)
| wyager wrote:
| I don't believe there is any coherent moral argument against
| piracy in the face of such hostile tactics from media
| companies.
| afavour wrote:
| Of course there is. Pirating streaming media isn't like
| stealing bread to feed your starving family, it's entirely
| optional. If you don't agree with the terms of service
| (i.e. DRM) then don't use the service. Deciding on your own
| terms of service is just entitlement. I personally don't
| care either way but you can't say there is no argument
| against it.
| wyager wrote:
| Stealing bread actually deprives someone else of a scarce
| resource, but the marginal cost of making a digital copy
| of a TV show is ~zero. So you're right - it is quite
| different. Stealing bread is much worse than copying a
| digital file.
| sosborn wrote:
| Stealing bread to feed your family when the alternative
| is starving is not the same as watching Game of Thrones.
| whitexn--g28h wrote:
| Then why do public libraries exist? Reading a book is
| optional. Artists who make TV and movies gain nothing
| from google being hostile to the people trying to view
| their work. It's the publishers and middlemen that are
| doing this.
| afavour wrote:
| I don't understand the logic here. Libraries pay money
| for the media they lend out so how is it comparable?
| anoncake wrote:
| You don't need a justification (like feeding your family)
| for something that isn't unethical in the first place.
| bonzini wrote:
| Even if Widevine itself is not open source, there are lots of
| legal streaming add-ons for Kodi. For example I use Disney+,
| Netflix and Prime with Kodi on a Le Potato (same SoC as
| Amazon Fire Stick). Right now it's an old, formerly analog
| TV, but when I change it I will just buy a 43" monitor.
| supermatt wrote:
| I bought an Nvidia Shield Pro 4k in Jan 2020.
|
| I just got off chat with amazon UK, who have amazingly decided to
| process a refund for the device. I'll be buying an apple TV.
| alibert wrote:
| The new launcher got force push on my Nvidia Shield (app store
| update is to manual).
| joshuaheard wrote:
| Tivo started running ads in its (subscription fee) service. It
| only takes up a single slot in the guide, but there are 3 in
| every screen. I called and complained, but what can you do. I
| stopped using Comcast box because of the intrusive ads. I fear
| this will be the future of streaming interfaces.
| blendergeek wrote:
| My prediction: within a week, Google will delete all the negative
| reviews.
| tpmx wrote:
| F*ck, I just bought an expensive Android-based Sony TV.
| turbohz wrote:
| I got one for many years, haven't seen any ads ever.
|
| EDIT: wait, what ads are they talking about? OK, I see
| suggestions of Disney+ shows, and I don't have neither a
| subscription nor the app installed
| deadbunny wrote:
| Probably because your TV isnt getting updates anymore. Great
| news, no ads for you. Bad news, your TV isnt being patched
| anymore despite being perfectly usable for another 10
| years...
| tpmx wrote:
| https://www.whathifi.com/news/old-sony-tvs-are-about-to-
| get-...
|
| (I bought an X950H, as it's known in the US.)
| jmacd wrote:
| The new Apple TV 4K is a absolutely better than any of the high
| end android tv devices. I've been through them all (at
| considerable expense) and am now totally happy on the new apple
| tv
| CharlesW wrote:
| It's nearly perfect now that they've fixed the remote, and
| absolutely the device to beat at the moment.
|
| Most of the "channel" apps are also very nice, the exception
| being Amazon's clunky Prime Video app. The Plex client is quite
| good too.
| jmacd wrote:
| The plex client is rock solid
| davidcuddeback wrote:
| I bought an Nvidia Shield because the Plex client can
| switch the display's refresh rate to match the content (no
| judder for 24p content). Based on [1], it sounds like that
| should be possible with the Apple TV, too. Can anyone
| confirm if this works well?
|
| [1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208288
| mh- wrote:
| I can't confirm with Plex specifically, but I can tell
| you content matching is an OS-level feature, not specific
| to apps. It works for the apps I've tried.
| [deleted]
| isoprophlex wrote:
| Apple tv has plex?!! I'm getting one!
| mfkp wrote:
| Basically every streaming device has a Plex app:
| https://www.plex.tv/apps-devices/
| Cyph0n wrote:
| If you want an app that supports Plex/Emby/Jellyfin as well
| as direct network storage, Infuse is unbeatable in my
| opinion.
| handrous wrote:
| > Most of the "channel" apps are also very nice, the
| exception being Amazon's clunky Prime Video app.
|
| To be fair, I've not seen any other platform where Prime
| Video's interface isn't terrible, and that's including Fire-
| whatevers. Been that way for years. I guess it's working OK
| for them, since they don't seem inclined to fix it. In
| particular, they probably regard making it hard to tell
| whether something's free-with-Prime or pay-per-view until the
| moment you choose whether to play it, as a feature.
| fermentation wrote:
| I've been looking into getting one, but my one hangup is still
| the lack of audio passthrough support. I have some UHD disks
| that I've digitized and without passthrough, the Atmos metadata
| will be lost on playback.
| ValentineC wrote:
| I found this: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204069
|
| Is there something I'm missing?
| username4567 wrote:
| After a few weeks of my 3 year old Android TV having ads and
| having choppy animations, I bought the new Apple TV. In the
| last month we haven't watched anything on the base Android TV
| interface. Apple TV is smoother, easier to find what we want,
| and interfaces for HBO Max look better.
|
| This is supporting my believe that expensive (durable) goods
| like TVs, cars, and appliances should have an external control
| hardware for their smarts that can be upgraded every few years.
| This would allow the good to last 10+ years without a crappy
| experience after the first 2 years.
| zz865 wrote:
| Cars yes please. I remember when people bought aftermarket
| car stereos, was great. I really dont like today's integrated
| entertainment, they dont work that will and in 10 years will
| look terrible.
| z0mghii wrote:
| How does the upscaling on apple tv compare to Nvidia shield's
| ai upscaling?
| CharlesW wrote:
| At least in one user's opinion, it's superior: https://www.re
| ddit.com/r/appletv/comments/ijjgms/apple_tv_4k...
| defaultname wrote:
| I tried moving my Apple TV to another room and relying upon
| "Chromecast with Google TV" on the main set. Not only is the
| device laggy, but everything just _looks worse_. It claims to
| support HDR, 4:2:2, etc, but the end result is that I
| immediately found the experience far inferior.
|
| Add that the AppleTV has long had sound synchronization, now it
| has automatic color correction as well.
|
| It's a very nice device. The remote was absolutely trash before
| -- good god I hate that remote -- but the new one looks
| significantly improved. And you can connect a controller to it
| and play a pretty wide variety of fairly decent games if you
| want, which is an experience that I imagine will improve over
| time.
| herbst wrote:
| Can you watch porn on that? Can you stream random online media?
| Really curious, I do things on my TV I don't see working in a
| typical apple eco system
| piperswe wrote:
| You can AirPlay whatever you'd like from your iOS, iPadOS, or
| macOS device.
| herbst wrote:
| Which do not have porn apps either. But I can over
| complicate everything by streaming my safari session I
| guess?
|
| I guess safari supports porn
| jiofih wrote:
| You can Airplay any video content from the web, or mirror
| the screen.
| herbst wrote:
| So I use another device to browse and the TV only for
| watching. I get it, sounds annoying just to enjoy some
| porn
| voltaireodactyl wrote:
| There's always infuse player and plex, into which you
| could place whichever pornography your heart desires.
| deanclatworthy wrote:
| at least Sky in the UK explicitly block you from using
| airplay when the app is running. They detect airplay in use
| and overlay a gray box on the content. I've seen no work
| around for this and suspect it's a sign of things to come
| for other broadcasters and media houses.
| sbarre wrote:
| You can install VLC and enter arbitrary stream URLs to watch.
|
| You can also use Plex to access a media server with whatever
| you want to put on it.
| herbst wrote:
| So no porn streaming at all?
|
| Does VLC on Apple TV support all VLC codecs?
| sbarre wrote:
| Sorry I don't know what you specifically mean by "porn
| streaming" are you talking about a dedicated app for a
| specific streaming service?
|
| If so, I highly doubt Apple would allow those on their
| platform but I've never actually checked. There are semi-
| sketchy IPTV clients that you can use to watch what seems
| to be unofficial streaming services, so perhaps those can
| also be used to watch what you want?
|
| As for VLC, it's open source I encourage you to do your
| own research as I can't answer your codecs question with
| confidence.
| herbst wrote:
| Well if I watch porn I don't download it and watch it
| later, but open some place app or website and browse
| videos on my TV to fap to comfortably from my couch.
|
| To be fair my question is already answered, no porn
| support. You need a another device to stream from.
| rattray wrote:
| Would use of an Android phone have any cause for frustration
| with an Apple TV? I'd assume not but I've never used one.
| callahanrts wrote:
| You won't be able to use your phone as a remote, or to enter
| passwords, but other than that, there would be no
| frustration.
| auggierose wrote:
| I guess you would not be able to stream your display to the
| Apple TV, and you would not be able to use your phone for
| keyboard input, and probably more. Just get an iPhone
| already!
| setpatchaddress wrote:
| No, Apple TV doesn't require any other Apple devices. It will
| prompt you for an iCloud account during setup, but you can
| create a free one or just not have one.
| banana_giraffe wrote:
| Not really, you lose the remote app on your phone, which is
| useful to enter passwords, but using the voice dictation to
| enter a password a character at a time works surprisingly
| well.
|
| You'd also not have airplay and mirroring. That might be a
| bigger deal for some, but for me, it's a feature I basically
| never use.
| samtheprogram wrote:
| The YouTube apps on Android and iOS support streaming to
| the Apple TV YouTube app, which seems to be the bulk of
| what my guests and I want to actually stream. If you have a
| local media library, or tend to want to stream your
| computer screen to your TV for unsupported media/sources
| (or for plain mirroring), lack of AirPlay might be more
| important to you.
| izacus wrote:
| You will not be able to mirror your phone screen or cast
| anything from YouTube or any other cast supported app.
| tmpz22 wrote:
| If it's like the older Apple TV's no. It comes with its own
| remote, the only iPhone integration is that your phone
| becomes an extra remote should the original be lost or broken
| tonyedgecombe wrote:
| It works with a lot of TV remotes, I rarely use the Apple
| one.
| tmccrary55 wrote:
| Is the Apple TV better than the Nvidia Shield? I bought one of
| the tubes and that thing is slick as hell.
| jmacd wrote:
| I have the tube sitting right beside my new Apple TV right
| now. No comparison to me. Apple TV is smoother, voice input
| is way ahead, and the Dolby stuff is way better than the
| Nividia processing
| tmccrary55 wrote:
| Interesting, thanks!
| kstenerud wrote:
| I have an Apple TV and I want to like it, but the remote is
| utter garbage. Every time I so much as brush against it, it
| does some weird shit, like pause playback, go into fast
| forward, change the program or whatever... so then there's a
| mad scramble "where's that fucking remote?" as I try to figure
| out what appendage touched it so I can find it and undo
| whatever it decided to do. I'm afraid to stretch my legs or
| arms for fear of breaking playback.
|
| Amazon got their remote right. Everything is an actual BUTTON
| and there aren't too many of them. Absolutely no complaints
| with that.
| jiofih wrote:
| The latest version of the Apple remote has ditched the touch
| pad, and has buttons again.
| leesalminen wrote:
| I also loathed those remotes but bit the bullet and bought
| the new ones. Am very happy with it and haven't experienced
| any of the issues with the old one.
| bitcurious wrote:
| Apple updates the remote in the most recent Apple TV model,
| and it's backwards compatible and sold separately.
| taylortrusty wrote:
| This $10 replacement GE remote is somehow 500x better. My
| Apple TV experience was dramatically improved.
|
| https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HSSAZX8
| jiofih wrote:
| Argh. Some of us just hate this traditional controller
| design. It's huge but the buttons are small, wiggly, there
| are too many and it gets dirty as hell. I'd rather use a
| PlayStation controller as remote, all you needs is two
| buttons and a directional pad anyway.
| crisdux wrote:
| This reminds me of an article I read earlier this week in
| AdExchanger about Amazon's advertising business.
|
| https://www.adexchanger.com/online-advertising/the-birds-eye...
|
| The future is all about video. Brands are paying Amazon top
| dollar because they can link customers to ads on Fire TV. Amazon
| is quickly moving into non-ecommerce advertisers, which is where
| Google shines.
| herbst wrote:
| Android TV is a surprisingly bad system anyway. Barely apps, I
| can access maybe 100 games from my TV. The far majority absolute,
| and filled, trash games. I suddenly found myself locked out of
| thousands of things I used to watch because the browser, if even
| enable-able, sucks and so many sites/services have no interest in
| having an app. Owning a TV still feels like a step down for me,
| since I was used just streaming on my computer.
|
| Without the kodi app I would see no reason to recommend a android
| smart TV over any cheap TV and a small Kodi box.
| wlesieutre wrote:
| My parents have an Android TV and often have to reboot it to
| for the internet connection to work. Makes all the streaming
| apps a pain to use.
| herbst wrote:
| I don't think that's specific to android tho. I got a Xiaomi
| one explicitly because they have good WiFi chips. This was
| one of my main worries, and I never had issues so far
| wlesieutre wrote:
| No wifi issues, it's connected to ethernet
| yorwba wrote:
| How do you find out which ones have good WiFi chips?
| herbst wrote:
| I honestly don't know. Thing is I have had Xiaomi devices
| before, and they are my only smart devices that do not
| have connection issues (for me) and work in my back
| garden. My new Xiaomi phone is the only of our phones
| that streams in hd in my backyard. So yeah just personal
| experience and bad experiences with things like Samsung
| mikelward wrote:
| What apps do you need? I use mine for watching video, and the
| video apps (YouTube, Netflix, Hulu, Disney+, Sling, Prime
| Video, ESPN, etc.) work well for me.
| herbst wrote:
| Most stuff I/we care about is regional things. Most German TV
| stations run their own 'netflix' (some free, some paid) all
| of which someone made a Kodi app for, none for Android.
|
| Also: - Porn (it's annoying to depend on your phone for that,
| and many good sites don't have push to TV yet). Kodi has
| those apps :)
|
| - 'illegal streaming' which is huge in German speaking
| countries and legal here in Switzerland. No streaming apps on
| Android, plenty and more on Kodi
|
| Also I don't count the original android YouTube app. With the
| amount of ads it is basically not useable.
| dannyr wrote:
| My experience is different.
|
| I love it especially now that I can install VPN. I can access
| US-version of Netflix, Disney+, etc while traveling.
| herbst wrote:
| I am not saying smart TVs are bad. Just that android really
| isn't the best example. You can do this with Kodi or any
| alternatives too. Even my dump smart TV has VPN.
|
| Also taking your TV put to travel definitely is a rare edge
| case ;P
|
| Edit:// wait? Was that just a subtle Nord placement?
| dannyr wrote:
| Oh I don't travel with my TV.
|
| I'm referring to the OS in the newest Chromecast.
|
| It's Google TV which is built on top of Android TV.
| notsureaboutpg wrote:
| I think he means he can access US Netflix in hotels because
| I had a similar experience somewhere.
|
| You can get pluggable Android TV which plug into HDMI ports
| in Hotel TVs and things like this.
|
| Last few times I brought my laptop and HDMI cable to a
| hotel and it was nice. We usually go to places for
| outdoorsy things and in the night there's not much to do
| cf100clunk wrote:
| The entire Android TV experience is one of constant tweaking of
| F-Droid, Aurora Store, and Bromite System Webview app updates
| with upstream adblocking, firewalling, and rooting in an
| attempt to stymie this sort of crap from Google and other big,
| bad corporations. I ditched all of that and now run Libreelec
| (Kodi) on a Pi4.
| ferdowsi wrote:
| My Nvidia Shield experience has been great. I can basically use
| it as another computing device:
|
| - since it easily mounts external hard drives over the network,
| I can use it as a NAS for backing up photos from my phone via
| SMB.
|
| - Likewise, the Plex server has made it easy for me to make
| good use of my huge library of music on my external hard drive.
|
| - GameStream is awesome. Streaming games from my PC to my TV is
| trivial and is much more enjoyable than sitting at my desk.
|
| - I don't get the complaints about the interface. It's the
| perfect level of intuitive for my entire family. TV on, my
| entertainment system + Shield switches on quickly via CEC,
| getting to Netflix/Amazon is trivial.
| thih9 wrote:
| A bit more general and off topic, I'm recently growing tired of
| updates in general; both on my phone and on my desktop.
|
| Has anyone been able to create a productive and safe environment
| where updates don't happen that often or don't affect their UX?
| I'd be interested to hear about such experiences.
| andrei_says_ wrote:
| Who made these decisions, who worked on the implementation, who
| launched it?
|
| Would they have agreed to it if they were not anonymous?
|
| Would they have agreed on it if they were in a union?
| balozi wrote:
| Management, product designers, devs, everyone - including the
| customers whose ads you are seeing. They are all in it
| together, making money. Union or no union.
| MobileVet wrote:
| Seems like a pretty strong case for a Pihole setup.
|
| Short of network level fixes or loader swapping, is the best
| solution a dumb (disconnected TV) and a STB like AppleTV or Roku?
| Jolter wrote:
| I'm pretty sure I read upthread that the Roku has ads, too?
| MobileVet wrote:
| Yea, you are right. I basically included that so I wouldn't
| get ripped for shilling for Apple lol.
| RototRobot wrote:
| I dont think a Pi-hole would work for this, because google
| serves the ads from the same location as the content (the same
| reason pi-hole can't block youtube ads)
| mongol wrote:
| I can't see the reviews, probably because I am in a European
| country. What do they say?
| sbarre wrote:
| They are all negative 1-star reviews complaining about a new
| giant banner that takes up a third of the home screen.
|
| Google did the same thing to the iOS YouTube app recently.
| cf100clunk wrote:
| Upstream ad blocking may help, but will the screen space still be
| taken up?
| hashworks wrote:
| Yes. It falls back to build in ads for standard apps like
| YouTube or Google Movies.
| ArkanExplorer wrote:
| Does this also impact Android TVs? Like Sony models, etc.
| mortenjorck wrote:
| I want to know this as well. I'm considering another Sony for
| my next TV (I currently have a pre-Android model), but if this
| update affects the Sony UI, that immediately strikes them from
| the list.
| Schnitz wrote:
| Abandoned the Google ecosystem (Android, Chromecast, etc) this
| spring after 5+ years for Apple. Never looked back!
| adamc wrote:
| No more Nvidia shield recommendations, that's for sure.
|
| The execs who made this decision should be punished. They won't
| be. But I think this has convinced me to move my mail and give up
| on Google.
| EastSmith wrote:
| Putting an old (5y, i5, 8gb) half broken laptop behind the TV was
| the best personal technical decision I've made ever.
|
| Super easy TV and Web. Also Games (streaming) once a good kb and
| mouse are set.
| highwind wrote:
| If you buy a product from a company where their revenue comes
| primarily comes from ads, you should expect to see ads on their
| product.
| Jolter wrote:
| Since when do Nvidia products come with that expectation,
| though?
| thiht wrote:
| I recently bought a 2000EUR Sony Bravia which I love, but the
| update adding ads is atrocious. I paid premium and still get
| fucking ads, it's a nightmare!
|
| The weirdest thing is that these ads have a political agenda,
| every day it's for a new LGBT program. Every. Single. Day. Right
| now the three ads on the carousel are Pride on Disney+, Turn it
| Around on myCanal (French cable which I don't use, I have no idea
| why I have ads for this one) and another LGBT documentary on
| France TV (same, I don't have the app installed so no idea why I
| get this << recommendation >>)
|
| Edit: please don't downvote me for stating a fact, I don't emit a
| judgment of value here. The fact is 100% of the ads I get are
| flagged as LGBT, which IS weird. It's not the only subject to
| discuss, and not one I personally care a lot about. I could get
| ads for documentaries on economy, animals, food, tons of topics,
| but I just get LGBT. Maybe it's not your experience, but it is
| mine.
| LordDragonfang wrote:
| >these ads have a political agenda, every day it's for a new
| LGBT program
|
| >I don't emit a judgment of value here
|
| It's Pride month, and today is literally the anniversary of
| Stonewall. Explicitly calling saying that any content even
| featuring LGBT people "has a political agenda" is a value
| judgement, implying you think the mere existence of a minority
| sexual identity in content is a political statement.
|
| You wouldn't call the service advertising heterosexual romance
| before Valentine's day a "political statement" (and probably
| wouldn't think twice about it), so it's prejudicial to claim
| the different for LGBT content during pride.
| csunbird wrote:
| The ads are just the companies virtue signaling.
| enos_feedler wrote:
| Time for Apple to start taking tvOS seriously. There is a lot of
| advertising revenue for Apple to capture that doesn't involve
| plastering ads everywhere. Just think about live sports
| intermissins.
| echelon wrote:
| Apple is just another domineering company that takes our
| computing rights away. I don't want them at the helm, either.
| heurisko wrote:
| This reminds me of plummeting reviews after Chrome recently
| introduced tab groups.
|
| I hope they revert both highly unpopular decisions.
|
| https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.android.ch...
| [deleted]
| kermire wrote:
| I actually use tab groups. Have been using for a long time and
| really like having the ability to group tabs. What's the issue
| with it?
| Denvercoder9 wrote:
| They don't have the option to open a link in a new top-level
| tab, you can only open links in a new tab in the current
| group.
| designium wrote:
| I suggest using an old laptop or desktop and install Kodi or Plex
| to solve for this.
| hughrr wrote:
| I did this for ages. It sucks. Maintenance, broken things all
| the time, bugs, ugh.
|
| I just torrent stuff on my Mac now and use a USB stick to ship
| it to my dumb TV.
| edoceo wrote:
| Check out minidlna. Run on Mac and browse folders in Roku
| Player
| hughrr wrote:
| That's two more layers of things I don't want to deal with.
| No networks, no servers, no clients!
| alisonkisk wrote:
| Dumb TV can play video from USB? That's pretty smart.
|
| The Mac can't act as a mass storage device for the TV? That's
| a shame.
| hughrr wrote:
| That's _all_ it can do. Has no internet connection on it.
|
| I don't want the two to meet. That's where the hell starts.
|
| I use this because the HDCP implementation on the TV is
| broken so it won't play anything with any streaming boxes.
| I'm not throwing a perfectly good TV in the trash because
| of a copyright restriction.
| jqpabc123 wrote:
| I suggest a compact, fanless, low end Win10 pc with air mouse.
|
| No ads and forget Kodi unless you happen to have a large amount
| of media files. Almost anything you do with Kodi as far as
| streaming can be done straight from the web browser.
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Beelink-x5-Z8350-Processor-Windows10-...
| herbst wrote:
| Controlling a Windows 10 desktop is literally the last I want
| to do from my couch when I can have a unified interface for
| nearly all my streaming needs that works perfectly well with
| a remote AND keyboard (people give Kodi a try ;)
| herbst wrote:
| Kodi also works surprisingly well as Android app :) sorrily way
| snappier than on the RPI (v4, 8gb ram I think) that was
| explicitly recommended from the kodi website :/
| cf100clunk wrote:
| Which do we value more, speed of the UI or susceptibility to
| undesireable change? Libreelec (Kodi) on Pi4 skews away from
| the latter.
| herbst wrote:
| I have Kodi on my cheap android TV which performs much
| faster than on my pi. So I prefer that. My RPI even crashes
| from time to time, even thought it has active cooling. Elec
| just can turn into a resource hog, especially if you switch
| between apps often. I am just still pissed that I spent
| $150 on a pi with case for elec when it obviously isn't the
| optimal device. And want others to avoid the problem :)
|
| As said somewhere else, calling home issues are just a
| question of your firewall / DNS setup
| ridiculous_leke wrote:
| Which version of RPI is that?
| herbst wrote:
| The most recent 5 months ago. So v4 I guess, the biggest
| that still supports 32bit Linux which afaik is the 8gb
| version. There was only one more expensive.
| lousken wrote:
| i don't see any in my language but the ratings are quite telling
| https://i.imgur.com/PGmoD33.png
| sneak wrote:
| I once asked an Alexa device in my kitchen for a unit conversion
| or the weather or something.
|
| It responded as it always had, then advertised something after
| the response, some new Amazon feature I didn't care about.
|
| I calmly but immediately ripped it out of the wall and spiked it
| hard into the tile floor, where it shattered into pieces. It went
| out with the garbage that day.
|
| Vote with your eyeballs. Smash that shit to pieces and never buy
| anything that says Google or Android on it ever again.
| yumraj wrote:
| This is great news for Apple TV. People who bought the nvidia
| shield, like me, were looking for a powerful device that was
| clean of ads.
|
| Now there is only one left.
| hsaliak wrote:
| Cant be easy for Nvidia. Stock Android experience is supposedly
| clean and simple, and vendor specific extensions just clutter.
|
| Now imagine their user base getting screwed over by an update
| they probably were only informed of.
| skummetmaelk wrote:
| Well I guess I had been putting off setting up that pi-hole for
| too long anyway.
| herbst wrote:
| I feel scared opening the web outside of my home these days.
| Seriously what even is that thing people used to call
| internet!?
|
| In all seriousness running that pi-hole is power and hardware
| perfectly well spent. And you literally start saving time
| varispeed wrote:
| I wanted to use Samsung Health app but it now only runs if I add
| permission to make phone calls.
|
| They changed it under guise of adding 2-factor auth, but the
| small print reads that they want my phone number so that my
| friends can discover me.
|
| This is just a disgrace. They should not be allowed to change
| phone features after purchase.
| teamspirit wrote:
| So I have a shield and have yet to check, but with the new
| Chromecast with Google TV there is an option in the settings to
| switch to Apps Mode(I'm pretty sure that's what it's called).
| This gives you the shield look with only your apps and zero
| "suggestions" (which are somehow always for shows and movies on
| services you don't have). I hope the shield has something
| similar.
| teamspirit wrote:
| I'm not sure how to edit comments on a Materialistic but I
| found the link for cc w/gtv:
|
| https://support.google.com/googletv/answer/10070784?hl=en
| Jackdanie1s wrote:
| This mode deactivates voice control which is useful for input
| rather than manual on screen typing.
| yumraj wrote:
| Does anyone know if pi-hole blocks these ads or is the dns
| hardcoded in these?
|
| Looks like I lucked out, my older Nvidia shield had not updated
| yet, it was downloaded Nvidia _Experience_ 8.2.3 - so I just went
| and disabled auto-update.
| dwighttk wrote:
| Side note:
|
| Not really ads, but kinda ads. I wish Apple TV would let me hide
| shows they are pushing.
| pkamb wrote:
| Just don't use the "Apple TV" app on your Apple TV hardware?
|
| Make the Home button go to the App screen.
|
| https://support.apple.com/guide/tv/set-the-tv-button-atvbe77...
| rootusrootus wrote:
| Kinda related, but I feel similarly about Apple News+. It's a
| handy interface for an overview of the news, but they push
| subscription options. I want to be able to configure it to just
| not show me the pay-even-more options. And to exclude certain
| news outlets altogether. At best you can choose to hide a news
| provider, but they don't really go away -- it just shows you a
| black box where the story would be, along with a note that
| you've blocked them, and a button to show it anyway. Sigh.
| syncdk wrote:
| I think Apple News is the only Apple made app that shows
| inline interest based adds.
|
| Annoyingly they still show them even if you pay for the News+
| subscription.
| cs702 wrote:
| Where does the "ad invasion" end?
|
| Smart toasters that force you to watch ads before getting your
| toast in the morning?
|
| Smart windows that display ads that block your view of your
| backyard?
|
| Smart paints that display ads on your bedroom walls?
|
| Smart shower-heads that play jingles as you wash yourself?
|
| Smart brain implants that directly induce subconscious desire to
| buy certain products and services?
|
| Is there some kind of limit at which we value _the right to
| personal privacy_ and _the right to peace-of-mind_ over the right
| to advertise?
| techlaw wrote:
| - "Smart" alarm clock requires micropayment to use snooze.
|
| And they say:
|
| "Why not? We indicated in the TOS (on page 4) our ability to
| 'modify the program as needed to better support our customers
| or our services.'
|
| "Also please note that our TOS, which incorporates our Privacy
| Policy, allows us to sell your wake-up time to third parties in
| real-time.
|
| "And before you say you never agreed to our TOS, we say you did
| when you plugged the SuperSmartestAlarm into a power outlet (as
| clearly indicated on page 22 of the aforementioned TOS, which
| can be conveniently viewed in a 6" x 2" frame with vertical and
| horizontal scrollbars)."
|
| [Since this is too close to the truth to be obvious satire: no,
| this is not happening AFAIK (right now).]
| binarypenny wrote:
| They wouldn't need to bury that in the TOS; they'd make it a
| feature: "Our innovative pay-to-snooze feature helps you get
| up earlier by penalizing you for hitting the snooze button"
| Piskvorrr wrote:
| That's already a feature on some smartphone alarms.
| However, it requires opt-in and usual payment verification
| - if I want to spend my money on snooze, and specifically
| authorize this, there's no problem at all.
| Ansil849 wrote:
| It will never end so long as consumers will keep buying the
| products. In other words, it will never end, period.
| wutbrodo wrote:
| Isn't the answer to just buy a product explicitly marketed as
| ad-free? I used to watch enough YouTube that it was worth it
| for me to pay $10/mo to disable ads (and stream music). It
| never occurred to me that I was owed as a human right limitless
| free content with no implicit or explicit cost.
|
| Similarly, if ads partially fund a toaster, just....pay more
| for the toaster without ads? The expansion of ads to every
| product category doesn't warrant the assumption that it will
| _consume_ every product category, leaving no ad-free
| alternatives.
| OldTimeCoffee wrote:
| That's great, until they stop making the ad free version.
| It's like TVs, there are no high end ad free TVs now.
| wutbrodo wrote:
| Interesting, I did some quick Googling and was able to find
| a good handful of 2020 models with no ads, but none for
| 2021. I'll take your word for it that they don't exist, but
| the fact that this is the first year where that appears to
| be the case is not strong evidence to me that this is the
| steady-state of the TV market.
| OldTimeCoffee wrote:
| You make a good point that it might not be the steady
| state of the display market, but I think it is for the
| majority of TVs today.
|
| As alternatives, you can buy commercial displays that are
| effectively TVs (with HDMI in), however they lag in specs
| and lack some features. You can also buy hospitality
| versions of TVs as 'dumb' TVs for a similar price, but
| these also tend to have lower specs. You can buy large
| format computer monitors (55" is about the highest I've
| seen) but they are substantially more expensive (roughly
| 3x more expensive) and typically use DisplayPort instead
| of HDMI.
|
| I only learned about the options because I'm looking to
| replace my 2013 Plasma TV that has a power supply
| problem.
| wutbrodo wrote:
| Good to know, thanks. I was actually going to buy a TV a
| couple of weeks ago, but ended up deciding to make my
| large monitor do double-duty instead of stuffing another
| screen into my "cozy" new place in Manhattan. It's good
| to know that I dodged a bullet: it's easy enough for me
| to avoid ads that when I do come across them, I find them
| pretty jarring.
| cs702 wrote:
| Except no ad-free service remains ad-free forever. Sooner or
| later, subscriber growth slows down, and the standard
| playbook to continue to grow revenue is:
|
| (a) introduce new products that require additional
| subscriptions (but eventually the company runs out of new
| products to introduce),
|
| (b) raise subscription fees a tiny little bit every year (but
| there's a limit to how much any company can do that without
| angering customers too much), and
|
| (c) break existing ad-free plans into new tiers of service,
| some or all of which have... ads.
| wutbrodo wrote:
| > Except no ad-free service remains ad-free forever.
|
| None of the examples you gave (toasters, windows, paint,
| and shower-heads) are services. I used YouTube (a service)
| as an example, because we're not in a world where products
| are overrun with ads the way services are, but my point was
| that even the service market has started to offer
| alternatives to ads.
|
| The idea that the market will bear every product getting
| service-ized but somehow not offer any ad-free versions is
| nonsensical, at least in the steady state.
| SXX wrote:
| YouTube has tons of product placement withim videos
| themself so ad-free service you pais dor barely remove
| half od the ads.
| wutbrodo wrote:
| Aside from not being true in general (none of the videos
| I watch have product placement/sponsorships), this is
| completely irrelevant. We're discussing the YouTube
| content delivery service, not the manner in which the
| content is funded, in exactly the same way that "the
| movies you're watching already have product placement"
| would be completely irrelevant to the discussion on this
| thread about ads in the interface through which you watch
| the movie.
|
| Tangential, but you reminded me of it: it's truly
| fascinating how incredibly brain-damaging discussion of
| ads seem to be. Every single thread I've ever read on the
| topic is full of non sequiturs, nonsensical analogues,
| glaring logical inconsistencies, etc. The only other
| topic I can think of that makes people similarly insane
| is airlines (cf my "why should I pay taxes" uncle
| complaining about airlines no longer requiring other
| passengers to pay for transporting his suitcases).
| ne0flex wrote:
| There was one startup that I met a few years ago that focused
| on enabling IoT on 'dumb' devices. Their first product some
| sort of plug for ceiling fans that allowed people to turn on &
| off / control the ceiling fan with their smartphone. The
| product also required a $5/month subscription service.
|
| I remember asking the CEO why would someone pay $5/month just
| to control their fan and he basically responded that the idea
| seems ludicrous and this point in time, but eventually people
| will catch on, and then he made an allusion to Microsoft Office
| and how that it's becoming a subscription product despite
| initially being one-off purchase 15 years ago.
| wutbrodo wrote:
| I think you're overestimating the degree to which useless
| subscriptions are sustainable. I just moved and am about to
| purchase something identical to what you're describing[1],
| and it's a one-time purchase, as expected.
|
| [1] https://sensibo.com/?device=m&campaignID=12697870451
| yccs27 wrote:
| Are you sure it will stay a one-time purchase? Given the
| post topic, your confidence seems ironic. In a few years'
| time, you might start seeing ads in the associated app...
| drran wrote:
| Smart wallet, with smart money - google know better how to
| spend them.
|
| Smart condom with smart lubricant - pay as you use.
|
| Smart pants - ads on ass, smart farts.
| lostlogin wrote:
| > Smart toasters that force you to watch ads before getting
| your toast in the morning?
|
| Adverts scorched into your toast. I sort of want this.
| ljm wrote:
| But your DRM encumbered butter won't spread over the scorch
| marks, as that would be considered to be ad-blocking tech.
| dvtrn wrote:
| Adverts specifically, or just being able to scorch any design
| into your toast? The later sure would be neat and novel, my
| nephew gets a kick out of pancakes that look like his
| favorite cartoon characters.
|
| But adverts on my breakfast? Dear god please no.
| banana_giraffe wrote:
| A quick search found this article in the marketing press:
|
| https://martechseries.com/mts-insights/guest-authors/why-ref...
|
| It's from 2018, and no progress has been mad on this wonderous
| world for ad-subsidized fridges that I know of. Still, it's
| clear people are thinking along these lines.
|
| And I remain adamant that any appliance I own like this must
| not have wifi or bluetooth functionality. After my TV started
| showing ads when I switched inputs, I'm done giving these
| people an inch.
| laurent92 wrote:
| Amazon devices give wifi to each others even if they belong
| to the neighbor. Next posh thing will be Faraday enclosures
| for fridges.
| distances wrote:
| Maybe not at home, but this was just at HN frontpage:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27636773
| LarryEt wrote:
| Personally, I would never buy a "smart" anything besides the
| phone itself.
|
| Such a high % of the population is clinically addicted to the
| phone though I can't blame anyone who makes a product to cater
| to these addicts.
| ljm wrote:
| There has to be a point where so many things are so heavily
| encumbered with ads that that there isn't actually a product
| left to sell any more, it's just a material vehicle for
| delivering more adverts. And things don't work well because all
| they're designed for is displaying ads. And the ads themselves
| are just ads for more ads.
|
| And the wealthy will get their peace of mind as they buy out of
| the system while continuing to preside over and profit from it.
| It's just going to become another thing that poor people have
| to live with; subservience to the corporate overlords.
| amptorn wrote:
| > Is there some kind of limit at which we value the right to
| personal privacy and the right to peace-of-mind over the right
| to advertise?
|
| Who's "we"? The advertising companies? Then no.
| Ansil849 wrote:
| The way to combat this is not to buy products that have this and
| then complain about them. The companies that make them do not
| care, they have already gotten your money.
|
| The way to combat this is to not buy products that have this in
| the first place.
|
| edit: a lot of comments are saying that the ads were added later,
| after purchase. This doesn't change my opinion at all, because
| people still bought products that have the capability for ads to
| be added retroactively. That is on you.
|
| If you don't like the option of it happening, and as this example
| illustrates it can clearly happen, then do not buy products that
| have the capability of having ads added retroactively to the
| product.
| HelloMcFly wrote:
| The products didn't have the ads when they bought them.
| luffapi wrote:
| I'd love to buy a "dumb" tv. How do I do that?
| herbst wrote:
| Just buy a cheap smart one and attach a device that fully
| controls it via hmdi. My bedroom TV boots to Kodi and the
| original remote is attached as well as a small keyboard.
| Basically the best solution I found
| luffapi wrote:
| I'd be worried that it was still phoning home even when I
| was on a different input. It's a good solution if you have
| to have a smart tv though.
| herbst wrote:
| IMO these problems should be solved with a firewall
| either way. You can never know when they start talking
| home.
| ViViDboarder wrote:
| How would it do that? You think they're shipping SIM
| cards in the TV?
| cvak wrote:
| Right! Like Nvidia Shield! wait
| meowster wrote:
| Walmart sells Sceptre brand TVs. They make 4K dumb TVs up to
| 75".
| luffapi wrote:
| Thank you. This looks like exactly what I wanted.
| Ansil849 wrote:
| You perform research to find televisions that either do not
| have internet capability, or you unscrew your back panel and
| remove said internet capability.
|
| The fact that you need to ask online how to buy a dumb tv,
| instead of being able to do so yourself, is depressing.
| luffapi wrote:
| Someone already gave me a useful tip, so I'm glad I asked!
| What's the point of commenting if not to learn new things?
| We also all benefit from having a conversation about
| alternatives to Android TV on this thread.
| Ansil849 wrote:
| Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you got some tips, and
| here's another site with some options:
| https://pointerclicker.com/best-dumb-tv/
|
| My comment to your post was just a general observation
| that I find it depressing we are at this point in our
| culture where people need to ask for help to find
| electronics which do not surveil them.
| yuters wrote:
| I have searched far and wide last year for a dumb tv and
| couldn't find one. Like another said there's the Sceptre TVs,
| I've stumbled upon it earlier this year with this article:
| https://frame.work/ca/en/blog/in-defense-of-dumb-tvs
|
| I've even started to look into buying just a big monitor and
| an external tv tuner.
| relax88 wrote:
| The words you're looking for are "hospitality" and
| "commercial display"
|
| The hospitality versions will be cheaper than commercial
| (commercial displays are designed to last longer with
| continuous operation).
| milankragujevic wrote:
| That doesn't make sense as this was added additionally, so when
| people purchased their devices the ads were not present.
|
| To quote one review verbatim:
|
| > I purchased two premium-priced Nvidia Shield TV's and loved
| them until yesterday. That was the day Google began forcing
| huge dominating ads on the home screen. These ads are for
| content in services that I haven't eve subscribed to or
| installed, they're totally irrelevant and obnoxious, and there
| is no way to disable them. It's offensive to force ads like
| this in a premium-priced product well after the return window
| is over. It's a bait-and-switch and I can only hope they
| realize this and make it right with the users.
| Ansil849 wrote:
| People still bought products that had the capability of ads
| being inserted retroactively.
|
| If you don't want the potential of ads being inserted into
| hardware you purchase, then don't purchase hardware that
| allows it. It is very straightforward.
| dagmx wrote:
| So you're future victim blaming now? People need to be able
| to predict all possible eventualities and are to blame for
| any future changes to a system?
| ipaddr wrote:
| In the end you didn't you read the fine print where it
| said google can make changes. You relied on their brand
| name and popularity and thought you were making a solid
| choice. You will get outraged today and forget about it
| tomorrow.
|
| You got played. You were scammed. You are a victim of
| following what society told you.
|
| Accept it and think though your next purchase.
| dagmx wrote:
| This is such an absurd take on things. So every change
| should just be brushed of and people should just move on?
| No software company is open to criticism for their
| changes and it's the consumers fault for not
| understanding every little nuance?
| ipaddr wrote:
| Trusting google to control your tv experience is not the
| same thing as trusting any company to provide any
| service.
|
| These changes were foreseeable so much that it is written
| in the agreement. You have no legal recourse.
|
| To spoil the next discovery, your tv habits are or will
| be monitored and recorded now or in the near future. This
| information will spill into your life in unwanted ways.
| Ansil849 wrote:
| If you buy a product that someone can remotely control,
| then you are setting yourself up for a world of hurt.
| Whether that is advertising or having all your data wiped
| (like is currently the case for those Western Digital
| Live Book hard drives).
|
| 'Future blaming' is an asinine term. If you point out to
| someone that, well, they shouldn't be surprised if their
| home got robbed because they only had a screen door, you
| could make a similar reply that you're "future blaming"
| those people because they needed to "to predict all
| possible eventualities and are to blame for any future
| changes to a system?" Ridiculous.
|
| People need to take accountability for their purchasing
| decisions. You buy a product with a gaping front door in
| it that allows the vendor or whoever else to push
| whatever crap into the product? Then that is on you.
| dagmx wrote:
| To take your example to the extreme, unless people
| control their entire tech stack, they deserve whatever is
| coming to them.
|
| So if the software you're using on your system breaks
| functionality or introduces ads, it's on you. Maybe you
| can reject software updates to your local stack that
| you're aware of, but what happens when stuff is
| introduced in part of the stack you can't control?
|
| You also assume everyone is sufficiently tech aware to
| prevent such things. yes, in an ideal world, every one is
| sufficiently tech savvy to know all possible
| eventualities. But that's not the case, and anyone here
| who thinks they're infallible at doing so, is kidding
| themselves.
| nitrogen wrote:
| Many people definitely predicted this outcome years ago.
| At the time it was dismissed with "slippery slope
| fallacy" etc.
| dagmx wrote:
| You're assuming everyone is sufficiently tech savvy
| however to understand this could happen. Unless you're
| going up to every would be buyer and telling them "hey in
| the future this product might have ads...but also all the
| other high ends brands might have ads too..." then you
| can't expect the average person to really prepare for
| something like this
| milankragujevic wrote:
| It is absolutely not straightforward and you are arguing a
| black-or-white fallacy.
|
| As was discussed ad nauseum on HN before, in threads about
| "smart" vs "dumb" TVs, telling consumers to "not buy smart
| devices" is putting an disproportionate burden on them,
| given the market conditions as well as the actual consumer
| expectations and desires.
|
| As ads are not required for the functioning of smart
| devices, compared to for example, electricity being
| required for a TV to work, or an internet connection being
| required for movie streaming to work, it is fallacious to
| suggest that consumers must avoid such smart devices to
| avoid unwanted behavior being forced upon them at a later
| date.
| Ansil849 wrote:
| > telling consumers to "not buy smart devices" is putting
| an disproportionate burden on them, given the market
| conditions as well as the actual consumer expectations
| and desires.
|
| This is true for all consumer goods. The disproportionate
| burden has and so long as capitalism exists, will
| continue to be on consumers. Companies selling products
| have millions or billions to spend on advertising and
| lobbying. Consumers do not. Being a responsible consumer
| and carefully researching your desired product is true
| for everything you buy, TVs are no exception
| qwertywert_ wrote:
| So you are suggesting you should never purchase an android
| phone like a Pixel because google has the capability of
| putting tons of ads in?
|
| Customers can and should complain here, that's like saying
| don't purchase any software ever? People like smart TVs for
| good reasons.
| tyingq wrote:
| Does the Nvidea Shield TV come with this Google controlled
| "Android TV Home" as the home screen / launcher?
|
| Seems like a miss on Nvidea's part to let someone else
| control the default experience, if so.
|
| Edit: It appears so. https://www.nvidia.com/en-
| us/shield/support/shield-tv/introd...
| milankragujevic wrote:
| Yes, it is required by Google for Android TV devices.
| tyingq wrote:
| Ah, okay. That does make for a confusing consumer
| experience. I would guess most non-tech users would
| assume this is something Nvidea can control.
|
| Edit: You can see some complaints flowing in on Nvidea's
| forum: https://www.nvidia.com/en-
| us/geforce/forums/shield-tv/9/
|
| Lots of comments on this specific thread:
| https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/shield-
| tv/9/4579...
| xibo9 wrote:
| Just admit you posted a bad take and move on.
| jordemort wrote:
| > If you don't like the option of it happening, and as this
| example illustrates it can clearly happen, then do not buy
| products that have the capability of having ads added
| retroactively to the product.
|
| So, don't buy anything capable of receiving a software update?
| Ansil849 wrote:
| > So, don't buy anything capable of receiving a software
| update?
|
| Not quite. Don't buy anything that forces updates. Updates
| are obviously important for security, compatibility and a
| slew of other reasons. But updates which are forced on the
| user are no bueno.
| Jackson__ wrote:
| Literally any device can force you to update, by the simple
| means of not letting you access the service without the
| latest version of their app.
| Ansil849 wrote:
| > Literally any device can force you to update, by the
| simple means of not letting you access the service
| without the latest version of their app.
|
| This is literally not true.
| antiterra wrote:
| And if a fix for a critical vulnerability and an ad feature
| are both in the same update?
| Ansil849 wrote:
| > And if a fix for a critical vulnerability and an ad
| feature are both in the same update?
|
| Can you point to actual real-world examples where this
| has been the case?
|
| I don't see the point of this stretched hypothetical. If
| it were to come up, then you could deal with accordingly
| - for instance by getting the update and then blocking
| the ad server somewhere upstream in your network path.
| dasyatidprime wrote:
| They don't actually have to be in the same update, the
| security fix just has to come _after_ the ad antifeature
| with no separate patches presented, only a linear series
| of versions. And that linear model is extremely common.
| Anything using the linear model that has both antifeature
| updates and security updates at unpredictable times is
| very likely to run into the "can 't install the security
| update without accepting the antifeature" problem.
| Ansil849 wrote:
| Again:
|
| > I don't see the point of this stretched hypothetical.
| If it were to come up, then you could deal with
| accordingly - for instance by getting the update and then
| blocking the ad server somewhere upstream in your network
| path.
|
| And then not buying that brand's products in the future.
| And advising others not to buy them.
| dasyatidprime wrote:
| My point above was not about how to deal with it, but
| only to point in the direction of it being very very much
| _not_ a "stretched hypothetical", but a reality of a vast
| quantity of consumer software, including critical things
| that are difficult for people to replace. (My worldmodel
| doesn 't judge your proposed counter very highly either,
| FWIW, but I don't feel up to arguing that part just now.)
| qwertywert_ wrote:
| And now you have reached the exact point these same
| Android TV customers have reached :)
|
| Can you admit you are wrong now?
| A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
| I am not sure it is that stretched. Do you remember
| Windows 7 added telemetry, how it was added and how
| update descriptions became way less helpful?
| HumblyTossed wrote:
| > The way to combat this is not to buy products that have
| this...
|
| I _did_!
|
| That is the ENTIRE point.
| relax88 wrote:
| Yep. I'm not really looking forward to buying a hospitality or
| commercial version for my next TV but I fully expect that is
| how it will go when I tell the local electronics store that I
| just want a display.
|
| It's similar to the whole online advertising thing. I have no
| qualms about closing your website because of a cookie banner
| dark pattern or an annoying ad that makes it past my filtering.
| I'll never come back either.
|
| The problem is that the vast majority of people do not behave
| in this manner.
| Ansil849 wrote:
| > The problem is that the vast majority of people do not
| behave in this manner.
|
| Precisely. It's why shit like this continues to happen.
| Because the stark reality is that most people do not care.
| And a large percentage of the ones that do care will still
| continue to buy the offending products anyway, they'll just
| complain about them.
| dkdbejwi383 wrote:
| How do you propose people don't buy products that have ads
| added to them in the future?
| Ansil849 wrote:
| It's very straightforward: do not buy products that have the
| capability to have ads added to them retroactively.
|
| There is zero way any of the three televisions in my house
| will have ads added to them unless someone physically comes
| into my home and replaces the television sets.
| LegitShady wrote:
| I was looking for dumb tvs a little bit ago and it's quite
| hard to find. Every company wants to turn their hardware
| sale into an eternal revenue stream.
| dkdbejwi383 wrote:
| You're also limited to mostly LED televisions
| edoceo wrote:
| Alibaba. I'm just buying what are basically big monitors.
| I'm paying what feels like a premium price for a screen,
| one power and three HDMI input - only. Lack of other BS
| is the premium feature.
|
| Edit: down thread someone calls it "commercial display" -
| search for those.
| Ansil849 wrote:
| They are not hard to find at all. Sure it's more
| 'difficult' than searching for 'TV' on Amazon, but if you
| spend ten minutes doing a web search, you will find some
| brands.
|
| Here's one site to get you started:
| https://pointerclicker.com/best-dumb-tv/
| growt wrote:
| As far as I understand the product was bought first and the ads
| came later with an update.
| mderazon wrote:
| Does it help if you have ad blocker on the dns level like NextDNS
| ?
| Shido wrote:
| I hate the idea of ads just like any other person however how
| else companies profit without it or creating a paid subscription
| to remove ads for so much a month/year? As I see it you pay for
| the product not the service.
| Latty wrote:
| Then sell the product with ads and let people decide if they
| want to buy it with them or get something else.
|
| Don't sell someone hardware that operates seemingly without
| ads, then foist them on the user after-the-fact.
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