[HN Gopher] Using Paper for Everyday Tasks
___________________________________________________________________
Using Paper for Everyday Tasks
Author : mayiplease
Score : 178 points
Date : 2021-06-26 07:20 UTC (15 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (christine.website)
(TXT) w3m dump (christine.website)
| rnoorda wrote:
| I find myself feeling naked whenever I'm too far from a pen and
| paper. I take most of my structured notes on a computer, but
| paper is where I think through ideas. I can draw diagrams, do
| math, and organise thoughts visually more easily on paper than
| digital.
|
| I also hate taking notes or writing much more than a text on my
| phone, so I enjoy having a notebook or looseleaf paper wherever I
| am.
| krab wrote:
| > Paper doesn't vanish into the shadow realm when I close the
| window.
|
| No, but it can vanish when you open the window. :-)
| inferense wrote:
| I've turned to using text editor and then paper too, mainly for
| its simplicity. "Running out of battery" was never a problem for
| me, but maintenance and getting used to the complex UI of today's
| task / knowledge management systems definitely was a painful
| experience.
|
| Like many others, I have decided to create something new. A tool
| which would be simple to use just like a text editor / paper but
| functional like a full fledged app. It's a hard problem. Though I
| feel like new approaches are needed, especially because the way
| the alternative tools are designed today seems a bit obsolete.
| The 21st century deserves something better..
|
| happy to share the access https://acreom.com/ and receive some
| feedback.
| Stratoscope wrote:
| Is there a high contrast light theme, like pen on paper? I
| can't use dark themes.
| noisy_boy wrote:
| > If the item either can't or won't be done, cross out the - to
| make it into a *.
|
| How about put a circle around the - to make it a "stop" sign?
| rq1 wrote:
| Clever one :-)
|
| I love these kind of tips that seem so obvious but that I'd
| never thought of.
| xena wrote:
| I'll look into that! X is a bit easier for me to write
| consistently though (really bad handwriting).
| marban wrote:
| I only use paper to capture the 3-5 most important things du
| jour. All the other notes go into Bear.app -- Tried all-paper a
| gazillion times but if you work a lot with links, visual
| inspirations, code snippets, etc. it just doesn't make sense --
| no matter how much I love sharpening that Blackwing pencil.
| zozbot234 wrote:
| Somewhat of a random note, but what's up with the WebMention
| trackbacks at the bottom of OP? I'm not seeing any outright
| malicious/spam links but there's a lot of redundancy, and
| unhelpful anchor texts like "Bridgy response" in some links,
| whilst other links from the same service manage to excerpt the
| mention correctly.
| xena wrote:
| That's a bug in my web mention scraper! I've been meaning to
| fix that but I have had bigger things to worry about.
| gorgoiler wrote:
| What a lovely piece of writing. It's good advice.
|
| Index / record cards and a binder clip work wonders for me. I
| used to write in a notebook but the anxiety of losing it is real,
| especially when reaching the end of a notebook filled with
| precious knowledge.
|
| 80% of read-usage was for either the current day or the previous
| day. Deeper history is very useful but often done at my desk. You
| can keep a rolling N day history with a binder clip. Having
| pieces of card is very useful too. Rip em up, fold em, flick em
| when you need to give an impromptu demonstration of how TCP
| works*.
|
| Get a Fujitsu ScanSnap too: digitising index cards is much easier
| than digitising bound notebooks, and it now means you can access
| your note taking history from any device -- essential for all the
| notes that _didn't_ get converted into project manager tasks but
| which need to be referenced, retrospectively.
|
| Paper only works for private task tracking so it won't work for
| everything but it's the best tool for the top of the getting-
| things-done funnel.
|
| *I am a high school CS teacher, former FAANGSWE.
| asyrafql wrote:
| Paper is still the best :p
| omgtehlion wrote:
| I like using paper for notes, TODOs, drafts, doodling, etc.
| Especially I like that tactile feeling when I roll a (mechanical)
| pencil in my fingers. As of paper: I prefer notebooks with tear-
| off pages, and love to crumple and throw them out when completed
| ))
| sunstone wrote:
| Apparently Richard Branson uses a very similar method.
| beebeepka wrote:
| I love the idea of wasting trees because you just prefer to write
| things down on paper.
|
| Been in the workforce for decades and I've met more than a
| handful of people who love writing things down and, of course,
| drawing stuff.
|
| I've had a guy justify not taking notes because he didn't have a
| pen and paper on hand...WHILE having an online meeting. On a
| computer.
|
| Now, these people don't have much in common but they tend to
| advertise this behaviour as benefitial to me and we always end up
| resenting each other.
|
| In my experience, the same people often fill the white boards
| with incomprehensible junk. Again, for my benefit...
|
| Edit:downvotes are not surprising. Waste is good, people. Waste
| is good.
|
| Anyway, didn't have much sleep last night, so I am a bit cranky
| dijit wrote:
| You seem to have strong negative feelings about this.
|
| But I very much struggle to take reasonable notes on a
| computer. Something feels "limiting" in a way, even if I'm
| consciously aware that you can reasonably do everything on a
| laptop that I would use paper for, and there are benefits like
| search-ability.
|
| For writing notes I feel flexibility and freedom to redirect my
| future attention to different parts of the text or accentuate
| different sections with emphasis or tag a task to be done (with
| a diamond, in my case).
|
| It's also the case that if I need to break out into a logical
| diagram I can easily do so.
|
| There's something to be said for how it's viewed by others
| too... writing notes looks focused. Tapping into a laptop looks
| distracted.
| jonnycomputer wrote:
| It is limiting. Doing a diagram on a computer is tedious, and
| even math notation is slow.
| dlsa wrote:
| Depends. If you throw the paper away then sure, it's waste.
|
| But... if you keep it then suddenly you're doing carbon
| capture. Saving the environment one bad meeting at a time. Or
| riveting collections of todo-done.
|
| But yeah the idiots who use the "I don't have paper therefore
| can't take notes." They're the worst.
| TheFreim wrote:
| There's no way, currently, for digital to compete with the
| precision and tactile feel of paper. One day we may get
| there, we are advancing remarkably quickly (pun intended).
| dlsa wrote:
| I think it's certainly remarkable too.
| CTOSian wrote:
| Still using an "ancient" pocket filofax (the one with 4 rings),
| I don't even buy paper for the notes anymore: it's easy to find
| discarded one-side printed on A4 brochures/presentations etc, I
| cut them to size via a guillotine cutter and bob's your uncle,
| its just for notes etc then once filled: shredded and off to
| the compost
| xena wrote:
| As a consumer, the trees are already wasted. Nothing you can do
| will change that fact.
| cpach wrote:
| Any use of resources has an ecological impact that needs to be
| weighed against the benefits.
|
| Same with driving a car, eating meat, buying a new shirt
| instead of second hand, buying new furniture instead of second
| hand, flying, buying disposable diapers for your kid instead of
| textile diapers, etc.
|
| There's nothing special with paper in this regard.
| beebeepka wrote:
| You are right. Also please note that I do not drive a car,
| nor do I consume meat. Also, I take great lengths to avoid
| single use items or use them multiple times.
|
| None of it makes me a better/conscious person but I felt it
| was necessary to address some of your points
| cpach wrote:
| I applaud you for this!
| jonnycomputer wrote:
| Just out of curiosity, do you use toilet paper?
|
| Or do you use a bidet? or do use textile napkins that you wash
| regularly?
| jonnycomputer wrote:
| Look, quite a lot of new timber is used to produce toilet
| paper. But OP was complaining about people cutting trees to
| take notes. Seems reasonable to ask if they also have a
| problem with toilet paper, which probably will use more wood
| pulp over the life time than their notebooks ever will.
| beebeepka wrote:
| I take a shower immediately after a dump
| dijit wrote:
| Have you done the math on this?
|
| My gut says this seems, worse somehow.
|
| Using a 9 l/min shower head for a 6 minute shower results
| in 54 litres of water being consumed. 54 litres heated from
| ambient (say; 15 deg C) to shower temperature (say; 40 deg
| C) requires 1.6 kWh of energy.
|
| Most toilet paper is recycled so it's a matter of figuring
| out how much the recycle process consumes per roll, then
| dividing it by the amount of average toilet paper segments
| a person uses.
|
| EDIT: Lloyd Alter of the website treehugger.com reports
| that making a single roll of toilet paper requires 37
| gallons of water, 1.3 kilowatt/hours (KWh) of electricity
| and some 1.5 pounds of wood.
|
| So a whole roll is less than a shower, but I guess it also
| depends how the energy is being generated; because there
| are indications that toilet rolls are not entirely
| recycled, most use some amount of virgin wood.
|
| Anyway, my point is not "you're wrong", my point is that
| it's a lot more nuanced than people think, and often the
| "green" solution can be less green but make them feel
| better.
| beebeepka wrote:
| I simply answered the question. I have zero doubt taking
| a bath is worse than using sane amounts of TP
| jonnycomputer wrote:
| A bidet uses far less water than a shower.
| kstrauser wrote:
| I keep thinking I'll like paper, but I just don't. A few years
| ago I started keeping a daily journal: not so much a diary with
| _today I feel..._ but a record like _changed the van's oil. Drove
| the kid to camp. Called Mom._. [0]
|
| I was using Drafts on my iPhone as a kind of bullet journal, with
| an action group I wrote. [1] After a year of this, articles like
| this one convinced me to switch to a paper journal and to get a
| nice fountain pen. [2] I've done this for about a year and a half
| now, and when I fill up this current notebook next month, that's
| it. I'm going back to digital.
|
| Turns out, pen and paper is vastly inferior to digital in every
| way _I_ care about. Other people love it and that 's awesome, but
| I can't escape the fact that I hate handwriting stuff, and I
| often cut my thoughts short so I can quit scribbling. Worse, the
| analog notes aren't actionable. My Drafts workflow turns my day's
| worth of bullet-style entries into a set of digital diary
| entries, new calendar events, and tasks in my task manager. I'm
| already carrying my iPhone with me everywhere [3], so I don't
| have to remember to drag something else along. If I'm jogging and
| think of something, I can say "hey Siri, remind me to..." and it
| makes a note for me without me having to pause and jot it down.
| Paper seems nice for impromptu drawings, but since keeping a
| paper journal, I've literally never drawn something in it.
|
| _For me, for my workflow_ , digital is vastly superior. Paper
| has its strengths, but none of them apply to how I want to use
| it. I mention all this for the benefit of other people reading
| this article and feeling vaguely guilty for not toting a paper
| notebook with them all the time. I think the important part is
| the note taking itself, not the medium they're recorded with.
|
| [0] As an aside, this is enough for me to remember that day when
| I look back at it later. It'd be useless for anyone else reading
| it, but I write for me, not for a hypothetical person who gives a
| care about what I was doing in 2021.
|
| [1] It got kinda popular: https://actions.getdrafts.com/g/1Sd
|
| [2] Rhodia Webnotebook A5. Lamy Safari, Noodler's Baystate Blue
| ink.
|
| [3] None of this applies while on camping trips. I take a paper
| notebook with me to write stuff down because I don't have to
| charge it.
| NikolaNovak wrote:
| The only advantage of paper notebooks I've seen so far is that
| in certain specific corporate settings, you'll be seen as more
| professional/serious/"executive".
|
| Otherwise, for _me_ , if you want to do _art_ , then sure,
| paper like any medium is a valid matter of stylistic choice.
| And I fully understand the tactile and visual pleasure of
| choosing and touching and interacting with a finely crafted
| physical product. But if you want to do _practical /
| functional_, digital beats paper the way paper beat clay
| tablets. Just the sheer convenience of having all of my notes
| and tasks, EVER, organized effortlessly, on any device I happen
| to be near, is a pure slam dunk. Shareability, automation,
| reminders, analysis, updates, backups... list goes on.
|
| (I'll still be more excited to receive a nice paper letter than
| a quick text, of course :)
| kstrauser wrote:
| Which setting did you have in mind? I've brought my iPad with
| keyboard case to C-suite meetings and felt good about it, but
| I'm imagining a TV-style board meeting with no electronics to
| be seen.
|
| You summed up my own relationship with paper very well. I
| don't begrudge people who use it as their primary system, but
| all the advantages you describe (plus the fact that I can
| type for infinity while my hand cramps up after a page of
| writing) make digital the clear winner.
|
| I still write paper letters to my mom, but typically by
| printing them from text and including a picture of the
| grandkids.
| beckingz wrote:
| On digital devices it's not clear if you're taking notes or
| writing an unrelated email.
|
| Paper notebooks can't send email, so if a person sees you
| interacting with it they'll think you're taking notes,
| which means you're taking them seriously.
| kstrauser wrote:
| Yeah, I could see that. Good point.
|
| I deal with that in other contexts, like Zoom meetings,
| by narrating what I'm doing:
|
| Coworker: Could you do X for me?
|
| Me: OK. I'm writing a reminder to myself here... _type
| type type_
|
| ...which seems to get a positive response from people I'm
| talking to.
| Zababa wrote:
| I personally don't like paper much because I write terribly, so
| either it takes a lot of time, or I can't read half of it. This
| makes writing either frustrating or useless.
| kstrauser wrote:
| That's a legitimate issue. Handwriting makes my hand cramp up
| quickly, and has since elementary school. The moment I was
| allowed to stop writing and start typing, I leapt at the
| chance. Turns out I enjoy stringing words together when it's
| not physically painful.
|
| My experimentation with fountain pens helped _a lot_. You
| have to use a much lighter touch; if you mash a fountain pen
| against the paper the same way you would a crappy ballpoint,
| it'd make a huge mess and probably rip through the paper.
| Being forced to dial the pressure waaaayyyy back, and in the
| case of the Lamy Safari to hold the pen with a "proper" grip,
| make writing dramatically more comfortable. But know what's
| many times more comfortable than that? Almost any keyboard
| that's not completely awful. I'm writing this with an Apple
| Smart Keyboard Folio, which isn't even in the same league as
| my main desktop keyboard, but is still vastly better than any
| pen I've ever used.
| throwanem wrote:
| I can and happily will second the A5 Rhodia Webnotebook
| recommendation. They're small enough for convenience, big
| enough for depth, sturdy enough to stand up to prolonged and
| heavy use, and full of beautiful Clairefontaine paper on which
| it's a positive pleasure to write. I've been using them for my
| diary for years now, and expect to go on doing so as long as I
| can still get them.
|
| (Fwiw, I like a Decimo better than a Safari, although probably
| not as a first fountain pen - you want to start with a steel
| nib, which will be more forgiving as you learn a lighter hand,
| and the Decimo is both gold-nibbed and fairly expensive among
| pens that aren't coded "luxury". That said, if you're looking
| for a change, a Decimo is also light and comfortable to use,
| and durable in real-world use; I carry mine in my shirt pocket,
| and the only thing so far to give it trouble was a Labrador who
| was very excited to see me again for the first time in some
| years. Some folks do have grip trouble with the pocket clip,
| but all I can say is it's never bothered me, and the sheer
| understated elegance of the pen's design - in every way the
| opposite of the "look at me!" that a lot of more conventional
| pens convey - is a pleasure in itself, besides.)
| kstrauser wrote:
| Ooh, that's a beautiful pen! The pocket clip seems like it'd
| serve the same purpose as the triangular grip on the Safari:
| "however you _want_ to hold me, this is how you're _going_
| to." The Safari is the first pen that ever coerced me into
| holding it the "right" way (instead of my natural "lateral
| tripod" grip; see https://www.scoopwhoop.com/pencil-grip-
| names/) and I love it for that. Also, I'd be bummed if I lost
| my Safari, but seriously upset if I lost a Decimo.
|
| But the Webnotebook is seriously wonderful with a nice pen
| and ink. It's the perfectly level of minimal roughness that
| grabs ink while still feeling utterly smooth.
| throwanem wrote:
| Oh, I worry about losing mine too, but if I'm doing
| anything that might pose a risk of it falling out of my
| pocket, I'll have my backpack with me and can stash it
| safely there. Other than that, it's either on my person, on
| my notebook, or in my hand. (Or in the car, if I'm visiting
| with my friends with the dog. I puppysat her for a week
| once, during what must have been an impressionable time in
| her youth - she greets me the same way every time as if it
| were the first time in years.) I might just be unusually
| good at keeping track of my things, though!
|
| The clip is useful for the reason you describe, and that
| serves the user's purpose in a way I think most pen
| reviewers don't use a Decimo or Vanishing Point for long
| enough to discover. The whole design intent of the pen is
| that it should be easy and convenient to use entirely one-
| handed, and having the clip placed as it is helps the pen
| nestle neatly between the user's fingers as they change
| grip from "uncapping" the pen to writing with it.
|
| After a while, just like with any other click pen, you
| barely have to look at it or even _think_ about it to do it
| - I haven 't done the latter in so long that I had to do
| the former just now in order to know _how_ I use it at all.
| Most of the time I just _use_ it. It 's pure muscle memory
| at this point, and the clip is the only reason that can be
| true - not that the more deliberate process of preparing a
| conventional, round-sectioned fountain pen for use isn't
| pleasant in its own right, but the Decimo's lower overhead
| makes it much better suited to the way I think and write,
| as well as to regular carry and use with no need for
| special handling and no more need for special care than,
| say, my glasses.
|
| (Sheesh, I should get Pilot to pay me a word rate...)
| graeme wrote:
| Wow that Drafts action thing looks amazing. I've not used
| Drafts much, how does the action group run: you do it manually
| somewhere within Drafts?
|
| And then once you run it, you archive that day's notes and
| start a new one for the next day?
|
| I imported it and m currently trying to find where you run
| custom actions in ios Drafts.
| kstrauser wrote:
| It's in the action sidebar (like https://getdrafts.com/assets
| /img/custom/screenshots/ss-03.jp...). You can type some
| information into a new draft, then run the "Append to Today's
| Journal" action. It'll find (or create) a new draft with a
| name like "Journal for 2021-06-26" and append the next of
| your current draft onto it.
|
| At the end of the day, go to today's "Journal for ..." draft
| (or run the "Go to Today's Journal" action to jump straight
| to it). Then run "Process journal actions" and it'll process
| each line of today's journal draft, then archive the draft.
|
| Each of those actions has a keyboard shortcut so you can run
| them pretty quickly if you have an external keyboard.
| Humikoto wrote:
| I feel bad but that page feels super cringy.
|
| And its surprisingly hard to just ignore it. why?! :|
| Zababa wrote:
| > And its surprisingly hard to just ignore it. why?! :|
|
| That sounds like a you problem. It doesn't really affect my
| reading. Sure it's more creative than the usual corporate blog
| style but I don't mind.
| jonnycomputer wrote:
| I like the aesthetics. But I use Emacs and org-mode, and don't
| mind using plain text for everything.
| cortesoft wrote:
| Sounds nice, but I can barely read my own handwriting and my hand
| starts to hurt after writing like one word.
| mikub wrote:
| I have the same problem, I tried so many ways of holding a pen,
| but nothing works. Like you said, it starts already after
| writing one sentence or something like that. Made my schooltime
| really complicated.
| egypturnash wrote:
| How _tightly_ do you hold your pen? That's a lot of people's
| cause of hand strain.
|
| It should be held as lightly as possible. Ideally someone
| should be able to lean over your shoulder and pluck your
| pen/pencil straight out of your hand with next to no
| resistance.
| barrenko wrote:
| The only thing that's important is getting thoughts out of your
| head.
| tapan_jk wrote:
| Good read! My system is similar:
|
| - Yellow (legal) pad for daily todo. Use pen on this pad because
| it is ok to not keep it neat because the page will be thrown away
| next morning. So, next morning, tear off the top leaf of
| yesterday, start no a fresh sheet with the date on top, and
| transfer any todos that need to be carried forward. Typically, a
| todo is either done, or not needed, or still pending. The pending
| ones make it to the fresh page.
|
| - A notebook for note taking. E.g. meetings, or plans etc. I use
| a mechanical pencil and an eraser with this one. Mistakes and
| badly written words can be erased and rewritten. When I reference
| this notebook, it is good to see that things are legible even
| after a few days.
|
| Summary:
|
| - Legal pad and a pen for tasks. Start a new leaf every morning.
|
| - Notebook, pencil, eraser for notes. Keep it neat, and can be
| referenced later.
| throwawayboise wrote:
| I like pen and paper for organizing thoughts but find that the
| expensive notebooks and fancy fountain pens and elaborate
| formatting "systems" just interfere with the core value of pen
| and paper notes: there are no rules.
|
| I have a stack of discarded printer paper on my desk. Rough
| drafts I've printed to proofread, that sort of thing. I make
| notes and doodles on the back side of these pages, using whatever
| pen or pencil is handy. If I decide they are worth keeping, I can
| use a three-hole punch and put them in a binder. Mostly they end
| up getting shredded and recycled.
|
| There are cases where using a text editor makes more sense.
| Working through the installation of a piece of software, for
| example. Much easier to copy/paste from the terminal (or just use
| 'script' to record it and edit later) than to transcribe shell
| commands onto paper.
| nunodonato wrote:
| How about a middle ground? I've been looking into the new
| generation of eink devices that are great for notetaking.
| Remarkable etc Best of both worlds and no more dead trees
| jiofih wrote:
| I have one. You still can't quickly flick back onto last week's
| notes, and object permanence issues remain. Will never be the
| same as paper.
|
| A better middle ground is probably one of those smart pens that
| automatically digitizes your scribbles, while you're still
| using a paper notebook.
| abdullahkhalids wrote:
| How many notes do you actually take? It takes about 113kg co2
| to produce an iPad[1] and other tablets may produce more as
| much as 200kg. That's roughly equivalent to the emissions from
| producing 2000-6000 sheets of paper [2].
|
| But we are not including the running electricity emissions of
| of the Remarkable, plus the co2 emissions of their cloud
| service. Plus electronics produce a lot dirtier pollution on
| disposal than paper.
|
| I taught 4 courses this year, plus research work. And I think I
| got through about 500 sheets of notes. If I had a Remarkable,
| it would maybe last 4-5 years. I think lifetime pollution from
| a tablet like Remarkable is always going to be more than from
| just using paper.
|
| [1] https://newzik.com/blog/ipad-environmental-report/
|
| [2] https://www.goodenergy.co.uk/good-stats-on-carbon-saving/
| ta988 wrote:
| Plus paper is recyclable
| vbsteven wrote:
| While I love my Remarkable 2 for taking notes, journaling,
| drawing and sharing/exporting the results, it lacks
| search/discoverability/navigation.
|
| In a physical notebook it's trivial to flip back a few pages to
| recall a note from last week. On remarkable that takes a lot
| more time, and the time cost is paid twice, once for finding
| the old note, and a second time to get back to the page I was
| writing. (Imagine working in a single browser window fullscreen
| without tabs).
|
| I'm still looking for an optimal flow. And I'm gravitating
| towards something that can ingest remarkable pages, perform OCR
| and categorise/index the results.
| nunodonato wrote:
| Onyx boox allows split screen
| lovecg wrote:
| Onyx Boox is a GPL offender though with some other sketchy
| call-home activity going on. This is a dealbreaker for me.
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/Onyx_Boox/comments/hsn7kx/onyx_usi
| n...
| kstrauser wrote:
| Eww, I hadn't seen that. That's a hard no for me, too.
| bsanr2 wrote:
| >In a physical notebook it's trivial to flip back a few pages
| to recall a note from last week. On remarkable that takes a
| lot more time, and the time cost is paid twice, once for
| finding the old note, and a second time to get back to the
| page I was writing.
|
| Shelved because I realized 1) This will be much more
| comfortable on forthcoming (cheaper) AR glasses than on one's
| phone, and 2) I still don't know how to code, but I imagine
| that this particular UX problem will shortly be one that is
| no longer insurmountable.
|
| https://www.instagram.com/p/CFcOov1FV6G/
| krono wrote:
| Same here. The main benefits to me would be the ability to
| search and extract notes more easily.
|
| Currently using a pen and paper system that's not dissimilar to
| bullet-journaling, but adapted to play nicer with unescapable
| digital calendars etc.
| Zababa wrote:
| > no more dead trees
|
| Doesn't paper comes mostly from managed forests? Or maybe you
| attach a higher value to the life of trees than most people?
| (which is fine, just surprising to me)
| streamofdigits wrote:
| As I see it we live through a period where two incredible
| capabilities remain unreconciled. The free format ability of
| paper to capture nuance, creativity and complexity in recording
| information versus the powerful augmentation of search / modify /
| repurpose existing records that you get with digital tools. Not
| sure there will ever be something that can support both but it
| does not sound forbidden by some law of nature
| cameronh90 wrote:
| The iPad + Pencil + Notability is the perfect device for me.
| All I really use it for is note taking, and it has completely
| replaced pen and paper in my life.
|
| I can search, organise and back up my notes, and also share
| screen / convert them to PDF and send them to colleagues
| easily. I can also easily rearrange the page and convert my
| scribbles to text so other people can understand them.
|
| It was expensive compared to a notebook, but well worth it.
| eloisant wrote:
| The note taking device like Remarkable or Supernote are getting
| pretty close.
| streamofdigits wrote:
| over the years I've been so dissapointed with pens[0] at some
| point I've given up. but maybe I will muster the will to try
| again :-)
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compaq_Concerto
| edmundsauto wrote:
| The Remarkable2 tablet uses a pen with disposable nibs,
| which means you get good writing feedback. In addition,
| they optimized the e-ink display for writing by minimizing
| the distance between the display layer and the pen (ie,
| less gap between the tip and where you see the writing).
| The device also has generally minimal lag.
|
| If an iPad is 60% of the writing experience, the RM2 is
| 80+%.
| egypturnash wrote:
| I think that ultimately any paper task tracking method that
| cannot be summarized within one or two pages of text is turning
| into that thing you do to procrastinate on actually doing shit,
| instead of a useful tool to help you decide what you want to do.
| Once you pass the preamble of "other ways I used to track tasks
| and why they don't work for me", this method passes that test. :)
|
| Her method looks a lot like the old Bullet Journal method from
| before it turned into a major part of its creator's business
| affairs and became the sprawling ecosystem of rules and templates
| and books and discounts on paper/pens and Instgram influencers
| sharing the layouts they spent several hours on painting that is
| "BuJo".
|
| Personally I prefer my variant of the Pomodoro Method from before
| it underwent a similar transformation; breaking one to-do up by
| the number of half-hour time units I expect it to take works well
| for me. Whatever works though. A nice notebook and pen work for
| me, too. Especially since I persuaded a few who had been
| bemoaning the excessive sizes of their fountain pen collections
| to send me some very nice perfectly-functional-but-unloved pens.
| rbonvall wrote:
| I've been using mostly paper for my notes for more than 15
| years. Of course I have a system that works for me, and it has
| evolved effortlessly over that time through practice. If I had
| to explain it to you it may sound convoluted, but it's not like
| I sat down one day and tried to design a complex system from
| scratch.
| ecspike wrote:
| I started using a bullet journal some years back and quickly
| dropped all the rules and artistic spreads for regular
| notebooks and most recently a pre-printed planner from Japan.
|
| Just went to the Bullet Journal site, wow, there's an app now?
| There is so much going on there. It's too much. I'm also team
| fountain pen.
| edgeform wrote:
| I keep trying this. I have a coffee cup full of pens, a stack of
| 3x5 cards, and Post-It notes not 6" from my mouse hand. I just
| hardly reach for them.
| xena wrote:
| It takes 21 days to form a habit. Keep pushing!
| raju wrote:
| Brilliant post!
|
| This system reminds me of Bullet Journaling
| (https://bulletjournal.com/), which I have used on and off for a
| long time now. Folks who have adopted Bullet Journaling have come
| up with some very interesting symbols to capture parts of the day
| (some which I have found more useful than others).
|
| I do find that any paper-based system breaks down for things that
| are recurring, and I have to resign and use some calendaring
| system to accommodate those (think changing the air-filter on the
| HVAC). I also feel that longer-than-a-day projects are harder to
| track on paper (If anyone has suggestions here I am all ears). I
| often find myself thinking of a project, breaking it down, then
| using paper to take one or two everyday till I feel like I am
| done.
|
| My approach to finding balance between paper and electronic is
|
| - Use paper daily (for the same reason that the OP suggest).
| Object permanence is real. I can't tell you how many times I just
| _remember_ writing something down on the left-hand side near the
| top that has saved my life. - If a recurring reminder comes
| through, add it to the list of Todos for today (on paper) - At
| the end of the day I usually end up transcribing my day into
| markdown notes (using https://bear.app/)
|
| Over time I have learned that not everything works well in one
| format (I have been thinking about getting the Remarkable but my
| god that's steep)--What I end up doing is "linking" from one
| medium to another.
|
| For example, if I start by writing an entry or a note on paper
| that I feel will be better described in a diagram or a code
| snippet I simply put a note on paper telling me to go to Bear
| (Since all notes are dated this is relatively easy). Or vice-
| versa--if I doodled out a diagram on paper, I simply put a "See
| notebook" in my Bear notes.
|
| Looking forward to seeing how others are doing this.
| beckingz wrote:
| Long term tasks and reminders need to be extracted from the
| scrawl/sprawl of day to day notes!
|
| Your process of transcribing notes into markdown is good. I
| prefer to think of it as extracting and summarizing, but full
| transcription can work well.
| ecspike wrote:
| I'm pretty similar except for the digital portion software. My
| _final_ work notes live as an org-roam database because it has
| really rich linking, export and embed options. Day to day is in
| paper and the pertinent stuff is "elevated" to digital.
|
| Diagrams get inserted as an image as-is and can be tagged with
| pertinent info. I do have the benefit of having decent
| handwriting that most can read as is or be OCR'd.
| esalman wrote:
| I kinda use Google docs in same manner. I have separate documents
| for different professional projects and personal goals. I use
| them in append mode only, and simple colors to differentiate to-
| do and done items- red/black.
| sdevonoes wrote:
| Am I the only one that does write down stuff in paper to realize
| that I never come back to it at a later point? In fact I just
| throw away all my notes after a few weeks. The only reason I
| write down stuff is because:
|
| it "liberates" my mind. I can't keep all the details in my brain.
| Example: designing a system. I can see the system in my mind but
| at some point I need to dump it to paper, so I can keep thinking
| about it. The paper, with the design, is discarded later on...
| the next time I need to continue working on that system, I start
| from scratch (although it's way easier than the first time). At
| some point I have the whole thing so memorized that I can start
| working on it without having to check the notes. I know it sounds
| counterintuitive, but "it works".
|
| Also, my notes look terrible bad. I don't even care about my
| handwriting at that point; I only care about "move stuff from
| brain to paper".
| reportgunner wrote:
| I am the same. I need to write things down by hand to remember
| them.
|
| Once it is written down i don't need the paper any more.
| BHSPitMonkey wrote:
| I always avoided this habit because I didn't want to accumulate
| sheets/notebooks; I picked up a Remarkable Tablet in December
| and it's been a game changer for me. All the benefits of paper-
| based note-taking with none of the mess, plus I can easily
| cut/paste/erase/reshuffle stuff, use different line/grid
| templates, and markup work documents without having to print
| them first.
| icey wrote:
| I use a similar system to the article, just a bunch of
| checkboxes and stars in my notes. At the end of every day, I
| review and make sure everything is up to date. A couple of
| times a week I'll do a deeper review and either do the thing or
| formalize the work in an issue somewhere. My handwriting is an
| abomination, but this system has always worked pretty well for
| me.
| theshrike79 wrote:
| For me, paper works for short lived tasks or "I need to get
| this out of my head for a now" style inbox stuff. Mostly just
| post-its and maybe a few larger scraps of paper.
|
| Anything long-term or larger in scope I want to have in a
| digital, searchable, format.
| why5s wrote:
| I can relate to this. Often times, my notes don't serve as a
| reference but rather as an append-only stream-of-consciousness
| intended to reinforce my understanding of something.
| wiz21c wrote:
| I totally agree. Usually, I don't understand, can't read my
| notes after a months. What I do is that I put old nodes in a
| bin and leave them for a bit longer, just in case I remember
| something is in there. After 2 months, I just trash it.
|
| Notes are just a way for me to think, to help my short term
| memory as you say. That's the best tool to think. Using my
| computer, even with my beloved Emacs (which is always shown as
| the best tool for everything :-) ) doesn't come close.
|
| Now, for long term things, I do write them in a computer file.
|
| Also, I don't know why, but writing with a pencil helps me to
| rememeber things much better than typing them on a keyboard.
| I'd say it's because the communication between my hands and my
| brain is more direct, dunno...
| coffeefirst wrote:
| Totally. This is the main insight from the bullet journal
| people that the author seems to have reached in her own way.
| None of this stuff needs to live forever, it's just about
| managing short term memory and cognitive load.
| dreamer7 wrote:
| Ya this makes sense. It's like setting up a chess board to
| study a position vs trying to do it all in your head.
| kej wrote:
| For me, the Rocketbook line of notebooks gives me the best of
| both worlds. I write/draw in the notebook, then I can scan the
| pages with the app, and the images land in my Google Drive
| (configurable). Then when the notebook is full I wash the pages
| and it's ready to start over.
| sneak wrote:
| IMHO, making records (flammable ones that exist in only one place
| and don't automatically back up and replicate) by smudging dark
| schmutz on to dead tree pulp is barbaric.
|
| It's barbaric even when done with a printer. It's extra barbaric
| doing the smudging with your low resolution meat claw.
|
| I carry a portable battery powered bluetooth thermal printer with
| me in my handbag. The only thing I will handwrite is my
| signature.
| arichard123 wrote:
| I use 8 pieces of A4 folded in half and stapled. You need a long-
| necked stapler, (or cotton and thread I suppose) and you're done.
| It always lies flat. A4 is super cheap. You can print covers or
| different types of page if you're interested in that kind of
| thing.
| xena wrote:
| Author of the post here, I looked into that but my handwriting
| is so bad that I needed to have lines on the paper. It was
| cheaper to use crappy premade notebooks from Amazon.
| NaN1352 wrote:
| I would love to. The most cumbersome thing about notebooks, even
| larger ones like A3, is 1) they dont lie flat, and 2) even if
| (eg. rings) when I want to write on the left page, my hand hits
| the "spine" between the pages and its not comfortable writing.
|
| When I used paper I got used to have a stack of A4, put a title
| in one corner, I?d keep them on my left beside the keyboard.
| There are nice a4 in 4 light pastel colors, easier on the eyes
| than white, and simple memory cue when looking in the pile.
|
| I'd have cheatsheets and tasks, the task/feature pages with lots
| of check boxes. I'd keep some cheatsheets for a long time, like
| css/typescript, and the task ones i would throw away when that
| feature is done.
| xena wrote:
| The ones I use are like 4 inches by 5.5 inches. Really tiny.
| Easy to deal with.
| novosel wrote:
| Just stating the obvious. All people writing with a fountain
| pen know that writing in notebooks of any sort is more pleasant
| when said notebook is rotated 90 degrees, with its spine going
| across. From left to right.
|
| Then, the angle of the paper to the tip point does not vary
| across the line.
| dunefox wrote:
| Surely you mean 45deg? 90deg is rather extreme.
| wizzwizz4 wrote:
| Not if you're writing parallel to the spine.
| topaz0 wrote:
| Sewn bindings will lie flat if the book is thin enough, like
| 100 pages.
| powersnail wrote:
| I like memo pads, something like this:
| https://www.jetpens.com/Tomoe-River-52-gsm-Paper-
| Pad-A4-Blan....
| ectopod wrote:
| I use the right hand pages only. When I get to the back I flip
| the book over and, starting from the back, continue using the
| right hand pages that were formerly on the left.
| rbonvall wrote:
| You may like to try wrist-friendly soft-ring notebooks:
|
| https://www.jetpens.com/Kokuyo-Campus-Soft-Ring-Notebook-Sem...
| leipert wrote:
| This is a good writeup. I tried paper, maybe I should try it
| again.
|
| I think one benefit of this journaling is that you could easily
| do a personal retro weekly or so and update a digital brag file.
| As a manager I loved when reports have a brag file, as this helps
| immensely during a performance review cycle.
| WalterBright wrote:
| I keep a pen and a $.79 spiral notebook on my desk. When it fills
| up, I run it through the scanner and toss it, then buy another
| one.
| TheAceOfHearts wrote:
| Lately I've been writing a lot in paper notepads and I've favored
| pens over pencils. I don't remember where I heard this idea
| originally, but there's something about using a pen which makes
| you grow a bit more comfortable with accepting that errors and
| mistakes will always happen but you can take action later on to
| correct those mistakes. With a pencil you often erase your
| mistakes and pretend they never happened. You're a flawed human,
| not a flawless writing machine. Expecting perfection from
| yourself at all times is very limiting. It's better to fill up a
| notebook with a mix of good ideas and mistakes than to leave it
| blank.
| reportgunner wrote:
| I second using pens over pencils. What I love about paper is
| that it's hard to delete things you might find useful later.
| ta988 wrote:
| Same here, plus pencil smears on pages over time if the
| notebook id kept in a bag or in movement
| xena wrote:
| Author of the post here, I use pencil because it's easier for
| me. Pens work fine (and I've used pens some days) but I mostly
| use pencil because I prefer pencil. I have a mechanical pencil
| that I've been getting a lot of mileage out of.
| mcshicks wrote:
| I found some Japanese erasable pens (frixion) at my local
| Daiso and fell in love with them. .7 and .5 mm tips.
| johan_felisaz wrote:
| Depends on what you do. I've been glad to use pencil in the
| past, since it is water resistant compared to pen. Useful when
| you spill coffee on your notebook, or leave your hiking journal
| in the rain like me ...
| TheAceOfHearts wrote:
| Fair point! All tools have their uses, go with whatever works
| best for your situation.
|
| I reach for a light mechanical pencil when I need to sketch a
| diagram or visualization since I tend to be terrible at
| estimating how much space will be taken up.
|
| The article recommended Field Notes are water-proof as well,
| if weather conditions are a concern.
| Broken_Hippo wrote:
| Or just change pens. You can find permanant markers in a fine
| tip, artist pens are sometimes waterproof once dry, and
| different pens are more/less waterproof - though it has been
| a while since I tested standard pens, and a ball point (or
| mechanical pencil) is much cheaper than the waterproof
| options.
|
| I'd think that the bigger problem when leaving a journal in
| the rain is trying to keep the pages from sticking together
| as it dries. Probably a lesser problem with the coffee unless
| you have a major spill.
| weitzj wrote:
| I have used paper but finally with my Remarkable 2 I can keep my
| paper workflow/feel and don't waste paper .
| cpach wrote:
| The Remarkable looks very useful.
|
| But of course the Remarkable has an ecological footprint too,
| just like paper has.
|
| A non-zero amount of energy and resources went into
| manufacturing the device. Extracting and shipping
| metals/oil/silicone, refining those materials, then
| constructing the display/CPU/motherboard/other components, then
| shipping all the components to the assembly site, then shipping
| the device to the store/warehouse, etc. It's a lot more
| complicated than making paper.
|
| Then multiple times per week the device has to be charged,
| using electricity that might come from a coal power plant in
| worst case.
|
| I'm not saying one shouldn't buy a Remarkable. But I don't
| think it's fair to say that the Remarkable is less wasteful
| than paper before doing a life cycle assessment.
| ekianjo wrote:
| It's not like making paper is energy free. You need to grow
| the trees, cut the trees using machinery, transport cut trees
| to factory which is under all likelihood not anywhere close,
| turn tree pulp into paper, package it, ship it to warehouses
| before it's actually shipped to the end store to be
| eventually picked up by a consumer. Not sure what your point
| actually is, if you want to compare both supply chains then
| you need to take everything in account, including the amount
| of paper you'd need over your lifetime in case you did not
| use any electronic device, the amount of garbage it produces,
| etc...
| cpach wrote:
| Exactly. Hence the comment about the life cycle assessment.
| TheSpiceIsLife wrote:
| If we use retail price as a proxy for resource use, how
| many pages of medium quality notebook could you buy for
| the price of a Remarkable table.
| xena wrote:
| I got about 2 years of notebooks, pencils and erasers for
| about $50 CAD; so it's got a long way to go lol.
| TheFreim wrote:
| I don't think using paper in a reasonable and conscious manner
| is "wasting" the paper. Most of the paper waste, I suspect, is
| from different uses (like printing tons of crap in offices).
| Thoughts?
| jodrellblank wrote:
| Nothing about shorthand. Not that this blog post specifically
| should have, but it seems conspicuously absent in all blog posts
| about paper, handwriting, note taking, etc. It's an established
| idea and demonstrably allows people to take dictation and court
| reporting at much faster speeds than handwriting - print or
| cursive.
|
| Why is it such a non-thing, even in productivity/efficiency
| circles and alternate/quirky circles, why aren't we taught it
| early on in school where we're expected to go the next decade
| taking handwritten notes during lectures?
| planet-and-halo wrote:
| I read a tiny bit about shorthand and invented my own using
| some of the principles other systems were designed on during a
| long weekend. Great investment, lots of fun. I specifically
| designed notation that could be common across digital and
| handwritten, and that paid off big.
| xena wrote:
| Author here, I've been looking at using Shavian or the like in
| the future, but most of what I need can be done in information
| dense notes like (copying from yesterday's list):
| -> debug xesite on xbox -> cert for xesite -
| gplay + MS + w10 testing 1.10 * cannot
| reproduce supposed issue with exit nodes, network issues?
|
| Etc. I've just not put time into something like shorthand yet.
| I may do it in the future (energy permitting) but it just
| hasn't come up yet.
| xena wrote:
| Ford improved shorthand looks neat. I'm gonna take a closer
| look at it. Thanks for the tip!
| icey wrote:
| Everything about this is great.
|
| Over the past 15 years, I've tried to break my paper notebook
| addiction numerous times, and have failed every time. It took a
| year of interacting with people over screen only to realize why
| paper has worked better for me (and why I'm going back to it
| after a year of Roam):
|
| Writing things on paper forces you to be a better listener, AND
| when people realize you're writing things down, they tend to
| speak more concisely. It's not that hard to type at the speed of
| most conversations, but it never feels like it's really
| listening. Watch people who do it! They nod, type furiously, and
| when they have something they want to add they will change their
| facial expression to signal that they want to finish typing their
| sentence before they want to interject.
|
| Saying "hold on, let me write this down" gives everyone a moment
| to refocus, and it's a lot more natural to say that than "hold
| on, let me type this". Plus, it makes it much more natural to
| revisit topics and let the conversation flow.
|
| Roam, Notion, GitHub Issues, etc are all great for asynchronous
| communication and coordination, but I don't know that any system
| will ever beat writing things down by hand for talking with
| people. (Although, the hype around ReMarkable is tough to
| ignore...)
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