[HN Gopher] Moving from Hey to Fastmail
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Moving from Hey to Fastmail
Author : 0xfacfac
Score : 127 points
Date : 2021-06-25 14:31 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (blog.francocorrea.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (blog.francocorrea.com)
| willidiots wrote:
| I've also been using HEY for a year of personal email, and just
| renewed my subscription.
|
| I spend a lot of time organizing and managing email at work. I
| have multiple inboxes, hundreds of tags, filter rules etc.
|
| When I tried HEY for my personal gmail, it just felt like a
| breath of fresh air. They were wrapping friendly UX around the
| realities of modern email. It wasn't "work" to manage my email.
|
| I recognize their system is limited if you _want_ to do that
| stuff - not sure I 'd use HEY for work yet - but if you're
| inundated with email (as I was, having a gmail address dating
| back to beta), they do a great job of making it manageable
| without any effort on your part.
| [deleted]
| shafyy wrote:
| I use HEY for work (we're a two people company) and I love the
| collab features!
| velcrovan wrote:
| I signed my wife and I up for Hey as soon as they offered a
| business plan, and although it's kind of expensive we've been
| very happy with it. But it's good to know that someone has tried
| the off-ramp.
|
| Besides the simple routing, I just like the Hey app interface
| across macOS/iOS/web. The Gmail app never played nice with
| sending from my custom domain, and I will never subject myself to
| Apple's buggy mail app again. So I'm curious if there are other
| mail apps Fastmail users like on iOS/macOS.
| jvns wrote:
| I also implemented a vaguely Hey-inspired system in Fastmail a
| year ago and it's been good.
|
| One tweak that's really helped me: when I filter things to "The
| Feed", I also use the filter to snooze them until 6pm, so I only
| get mailing list emails once at a day.
| pitched wrote:
| Hey is an awesome email client on a terrible email server and
| Fastmail is an awesome server with a terrible client. I only wish
| there was a standard protocol we could use to mix and match!
| sebmellen wrote:
| I agree. It would be amazing if we had something that allowed
| that. Maybe we could call it the "Internet Message Access
| Protocol" or IMAP...
| weavejester wrote:
| I know it's pretty subjective, but I'd personally rate
| Fastmail's UI as one of the best I've used. The only real issue
| I have with it is that uncached searches could be faster.
| zzyzxd wrote:
| IMHO, services like Hey is for people who don't know how, or
| don't want to bother, to set proper inbox rules (it has many
| other features for sure but organizing emails is one of the
| biggest selling point as far as I see).
|
| But for me, I just want a reliable, dumb, boring email service
| without any "smart" features. I will decide what to do with every
| type of incoming emails myself. Fastmail gives me exactly that.
| imwillofficial wrote:
| I could see this being a view for some. I'd say most users on
| hacker news know how to set up complex rules for email. A
| guess, but a safe one.
|
| The magic of Hey is the user interface. The "opinionated"
| nature of their design choices.
|
| To me, their workflows mostly made sense. For me it really
| really smooths out my email workflow into a logical set of
| steps.
|
| Other people may not like that flow, and Hey wouldn't be for
| them.
|
| So I'd counter and say Hey is for 2 groups. 1. Those who don't
| know how to set up complex rules 2. Those who don't want to,
| and Hey's flow works with their own.
| minton wrote:
| For me, Hey isn't just about filtering emails, although it does
| that well out of the box. It's the collaboration features and
| the small things like the Files page and Reply Later that I
| would miss if I went back to a traditional service like
| FastMail/Gmail/Proton/etc.
| zzyzxd wrote:
| Isn't "Reply Later" just another folder/tag/label? And I
| personally just mark an email as unread if I need to take
| another look at it later for any reason.
| imwillofficial wrote:
| Oh sure, most of Hey is totally reproducible. The
| combination of beautiful interface, logical workflow, and
| thoughtful touches are what set it apart. For some people
| that matters, others, not as much.
| alberth wrote:
| I don't get Hey.
|
| I feel like it does too much magic with my inbox.
|
| Much like social media, I don't want some algorithm to
| selectively decide what messages I see and what I don't. I want
| to be able to see All messages, in a chronological order.
|
| Having concert tickets not arrive in my inbox that I need because
| some magic is happening due to the sender being a first time
| sender to me is just frustrating.
| agd wrote:
| There's no magic in Hey. No algorithms or AI. You literally
| filter everything manually.
|
| It's the complete opposite of what you're describing.
| imwillofficial wrote:
| I get what you're feeling, but the magic is you. You decide
| where things route. After that it's magic.
|
| Unlike social media and opaque algos, you decide what goes to
| the feed, to the paper trail, who gets screened in and out,
| etc...
|
| I've found it super useful, my email was a nightmare before.
| jshen wrote:
| Not sure why you're getting down voted because you're right.
| There is no magic to Hey, you explicitly tell it which
| "folder" a sender's email should go to. It's not perfect
| because some senders use the same address for different types
| of emails (receipts versus offers), but there's no magic
| about where an email from them will go.
| oezi wrote:
| Hey's biggest fail is missing notifications for first time
| senders. It seems to assume people are constantly using
| email. But for me days can sometimes go by until I am active
| rather than reactive on a particular account. With Hey, I
| only then realized that there were two emails stuck waiting
| for me screening them.
| mszcz wrote:
| Yeah, I can relate. The ephemeral and mercurial character of
| those things really bugs me. I stopped using Facebook because
| it's useless - once I scrolled past something I could never
| find it again. Infuriating.
|
| On a funny note, I seem to recall a Dilbert strip with a spam
| filter that became sentient and started controlling the company
| by controlling the flow of email but I'm unable to find it at
| the moment ;)
| DerekRobot wrote:
| https://dilbert.com/strip/2003-07-12
| [deleted]
| jaredcwhite wrote:
| I still pay for Fastmail, yet I route all messages over to HEY.
| There's just no replicating the UX (Fastmail's web UI
| is...suboptimal...and I'm thoroughly over using Apple Mail). And
| there are a _ton_ of neat little touches throughout HEY beyond
| just the immediate filtering of incoming messages. It 's
| simplistic to think you can just add a few rules on some other
| system and you're done.
|
| I seriously thought about quitting after the Basecamp fiasco, but
| ultimately realized my entire email workflow is now centered
| around HEY and it's greatly improved my quality of life. So I use
| it like I use any other online service from a company I don't
| particularly like. _shrug_
| darthrupert wrote:
| Why don't you like Basecamp? They seem like a really good
| company in lots of ways.
|
| Hey itself is a bit lackluster though.
| creyes wrote:
| Probably related to this
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26944192
| stavros wrote:
| What's wrong with Fastmail's UI? It's the fastest web app I've
| used (not just fastest mail app, fastest web app overall).
| juniperplant wrote:
| I cannot say the same for their Android app. After all, it's
| basically a wrapper of the web app.
|
| Gmail is much faster, I guess because it's native.
| ithkuil wrote:
| > ... fiasco
|
| Not sure if you had the chance to hear the "other side" of the
| "fiasco" already. I found it here and it was interesting:
| https://samharris.org/podcasts/253-corporate-courage/
| jaredcwhite wrote:
| Thanks, I hadn't heard that. I'll be surprised if it sways my
| opinion but will listen regardless.
| jaredcwhite wrote:
| Wow, that was way worse than I feared. Had to shut it off
| after 20 minutes. I'm _diametrically_ opposed to their
| worldview.
| ithkuil wrote:
| you're free to have another worldview; it doesn't hurt
| listening to people who have a different worldview
| though, especially when it's a viewpoint relevant to the
| topic (i.e. the founder of basecamp speaking on his point
| of view).
|
| I had a distinct impression from what you wrote that you
| wish you didn't waste your time listening to his point of
| view though, which I find a bit sad if true, but you're
| free to have your worldview after all.
|
| I really think that the speed at which some people reach
| judgement and conclusions is astonishing. It's all so
| easy; the world is split into two groups "us" and "them",
| right? the right thinkers and the wrong thinkers.
|
| Listen, think, don't jump to conclusions, let things
| simmer, think again, object to concrete things, ask
| questions, express your point of view, hold your
| opinions. I can't make all of that in 20m; lucky you if
| you have that skill.
|
| One of the most interesting parts of the interview
| (honestly I don't remember if it's before or after your
| 20m mark), was when Jason mentioned that there were
| several employees who felt attacked for not speaking up
| on some political topics at work; "consent by silence",
| while people just didn't chime in because they just
| didn't feel like talking about that stuff, yet suddenly
| they were treated as if they were racists; or others who
| felt attacked because they didn't use the right words
| when discussing about these topics. The whole thing
| easily backfires: imagine all you want is to promote
| inclusion and non-toxic environment and you end up
| fuelling the very same problems from the other side.
|
| I'm not sure I can reach you and actually have a
| conversation about that; I have the feeling you'll
| dismiss me and just because you think you already know
| what I mean and what I stand for; perhaps just labeled me
| like "them", whatever that means.
| jaredcwhite wrote:
| Jason could have stepped up and actually _be a leader_ to
| ensure that political discussions don 't lead to a toxic
| work environment. Instead he centered _himself_ , had a
| knee-jerk reaction to a point of view that really didn't
| have anything to do with _him_ personally, and then
| decided to lob a missile at his own company. That 's not
| courage, that's cowardice.
| ithkuil wrote:
| I'm pretty sure there are many ways to deal with such a
| situation and many ways to get it wrong. I'm not even
| arguing that what he did was right; given the amount of
| grief basecamp is getting, it's clearly possible to
| imagine a world where Jason had handled it better.
|
| I don't understand though what "being a leader" means
| here, and why you're calling him a coward for trying out
| something, even if that something was wrong. What should
| a leader do if not try out things? Courage doesn't mean
| "do the right thing"; it just means don't be afraid. One
| can be a courageous asshole and a coward saint.
|
| That said, you clearly have some ideas one how should one
| handle such a situation, and how to ensure political
| discussion don't lead to a toxic environment? Clearly
| justing saying "don't proselytise your political topics
| at work" is off the table for some reason.
|
| What is exactly at stakes here? Is it about freedom of
| bring one's whole self at work? Is it about the urgency
| of solving the real and pressing problem of american
| society that requires everybody's attention everywhre? Is
| it a knee jerk reaction to the toxicity of the former
| presidential mandate that left a deep scar in american
| society? What are we talking about exactly here? Why
| can't I just feel free to mind my own business and do my
| javascript and whatnot at work and talk about politics at
| the pub?
|
| I'm really curious, honest.
| bryan0 wrote:
| That's disappointing. Haven't listened yet, but can you
| sum up what their (I assume Jason Fried's) worldview is?
| agambrahma wrote:
| Was looking for a Gmail alternative, several months ago, and had
| to pick between these two.
|
| I went with Fastmail and am very happy.
|
| Tons of aliases that are easy to use, the UX is actually _much
| better_ than Gmail.
| vishnugupta wrote:
| Seconded about Fastmail. I use it to host mail on my own
| domain. I'm almost done migrating from Gmail to Fastmail.
|
| I recently discovered their alias feature. It's super useful
| for all those subscription things.
| theandrewbailey wrote:
| Same. I have a wildcard alias, and all my logins use
| different email addresses. Super useful to tell if some
| service gets hacked or otherwise leaks email addresses.
| bobsomers wrote:
| Same here. I switched to Fastmail from Gmail a few years ago
| and it's absolutely fantastic. The app is great, no AI magic,
| things just all work exactly as they should.
| SAI_Peregrinus wrote:
| About the only thing I dislike about Fastmail is there's no
| equivalent to gmail's "unread-first" view. IE show unread
| messages first, in reverse-chronological order, then all read
| messages, in reverse-chronological order.
| kilroy123 wrote:
| I use Fastmail as well. I'm totally fine with the web version
| but the app really needs some more love and improvements.
| juniperplant wrote:
| I agree. I really wish they had a native app instead of a
| wrapper of the web app.
| mhfs wrote:
| Every time I read this type of post I get amazed at how primitive
| my use of personal email is.
|
| No folders, no tags, no rules. Just inbox and read status.
|
| Ditched gmail for iCloud a few years ago. Simple, cheap, well
| integrated.
| axaxs wrote:
| Same. I pretty much scan it, anything interesting I open(which
| isn't a ton). Then, about once every few months, I get tired of
| seeing 20k unread emails, so delete all unread emails older
| than x.
|
| Perhaps I'm not a power user, or constant marketing emails have
| just made me numb to it all.
| handrous wrote:
| I basically never receive an email to my personal account
| that I care about, unless it's a transactional email I just
| caused to be sent (password reset, email confirmation,
| shipping notice, that sort of thing) or I'm job-hunting. I go
| weeks sometimes without opening my personal email. I tried
| for quite a while to keep the inbox manageable with filters
| and aggressive application of the "mark as spam" button for
| anything from a sender I didn't care to ever hear from again,
| but at some point realized that I damn near never care about
| an email that I didn't _expect_ to find, usually received
| within the last few minutes, so there 's no point.
| christophilus wrote:
| Same. My workflow is as follows:
|
| About once a month, I unsubscribe in bulk, and delete in bulk.
| Other than that, I scan my inbox once every day or two and read
| anything that seems relevant (maybe a handful of emails per
| week).
| imwillofficial wrote:
| I love Hey. Completely revolutionized email for me. I hated it
| before, now it's a joy to use. It's really cool this guy
| documented and shared all His steps to switch over to fast mail.
| Ashanmaril wrote:
| Just this week I started looking into Gmail alternatives (as well
| as de-Googling myself as much as possible) and while I haven't
| pulled the trigger on anything yet, Fastmail is looking like the
| top contender at the moment.
|
| Hey was on the table for a bit, but no matter how much I read
| about their alternative workflow, I just don't understand how it
| would be an improvement over my typical method of archiving
| emails as I get through them. My email is essentially just a to-
| do list. Once I've dealt with something, into the archive it
| goes, and I don't think about it again unless it shows up in a
| search result when I'm looking for something later.
|
| I've just never had a problem with it so I don't see a need to
| reinvent the wheel and learn a new method of using email.
| AdamN wrote:
| Yeah, gmail hit the nail on the head. No folders (originally),
| liberal use of archive, and you can still delete for true
| garbage.
|
| Spam controls work really well too. I would like to de-google
| (already use ddg mostly), but tbh Google ain't that bad in the
| sense that although they have alot about me they don't seem to
| sell it as nakedly as FB.
| Ashanmaril wrote:
| I mainly just want out of Gmail because all of my internet
| accounts are tied to that address and it's known that your
| account could just be terminated by a bot for no reason and
| the only way to get it back is to make a stink on social
| media until a Google employee with connections sees it and
| takes the time to bang on some doors during their lunch
| break.
|
| I'll probably switch to Fastmail and get an address set up
| with my personal domain so I'm not tied to any service. But
| yeah, as a service I don't really have any issues with Gmail.
| AnonC wrote:
| > I researched several different services that could provide a
| good enough service for a reasonable price and ended up settling
| on Fastmail.com.
|
| The author also talks about saving a lot of money every year.
| There are cheaper alternatives to Fastmail that support custom
| domains and have a focus on privacy. Mailbox.org and Runbox.com
| are a couple of them. There are more.
| mapgrep wrote:
| I've been very happy using Helm home email server and it's made
| me a bit of a snob about hosted Gmail alternatives - these
| companies still have access to all your email and while I am not
| a big fan of Google's business model I'm personally not
| comfortable having my email on any corporate server.
|
| (No affiliation with Helm just a happy customer for more than a
| year and hoping they succeed.)
| jacques-noris wrote:
| Helm sounds interesting. But is there still no web interface to
| access your mails from a browser? Unfortunately that would be a
| no-go for me. Do you know if Helm also works in other countries
| than the US?
| vladgur wrote:
| My takeaway -- I can replicate some of Hey features in GMail,
| sweet!
| crsv wrote:
| I love how a bunch of the "headline features" of Hey are
| effectively replicated with taking the time to make a few rules
| in another platform. I tried Hey at the peak of it's pre-release
| hype, but just like Basecamp, it's just a really mediocre
| experience in a sea of options.
| counternotions wrote:
| Would you mind sharing tips/examples of Hey-esque rules to port
| to other platforms?
| bryan0 wrote:
| I tried briefly to replicate some of Hey's features with gmail
| but with limited success. I think the key workflows are:
|
| 1. Unknown senders go to a bucket for categorization
|
| 2. Easily categorize which senders are
| "important"/"unimportant"/"ignore,spam"
| jshen wrote:
| I had the same thought, but made the opposite conclusion. I
| setup gmail and outlook to work like hey and tried them for a
| week each. While it technically worked, their UIs are not
| optimized for that type of work flow so it was a lot more
| clicks to achieve the same ends.
|
| After my experiment I paid for Hey, and have been really happy
| with it.
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