[HN Gopher] Show HN: Multiverse.plus - what if blogging was more...
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       Show HN: Multiverse.plus - what if blogging was more collage-like
       and colorful?
        
       Author : kickscondor
       Score  : 184 points
       Date   : 2021-06-23 01:05 UTC (21 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (multiverse.plus)
 (TXT) w3m dump (multiverse.plus)
        
       | jiofih wrote:
       | A product that pays so little attention to mobile won't find much
       | success in 2021. The homepage is almost unreadable on an iPhone.
        
       | 20after4 wrote:
       | Bring back MySpace! -- almost nobody, ever
       | 
       | I like the idea but I dread what people will do with it.
        
         | xwdv wrote:
         | spacehey.com
        
       | monijz wrote:
       | rad. we need a 2021 version of geocities
        
         | makeworld wrote:
         | https://neocities.org/
        
           | monijz wrote:
           | neocities is fantastic, and one-of-a-kind
        
       | k__ wrote:
       | I like the idea.
       | 
       | I mostly need code examples (with highlights) and diagrams
       | (potentially with animations) in my articles. Is there something
       | planned for that?
        
         | glitchyowl wrote:
         | text control (including hyperlinking) is something we
         | definitely want to invest more time into, so super yes to code
         | examples
         | 
         | for now, you can copy and paste linked text into the text
         | control, so format the text using something like https://trix-
         | editor.org/ home page - then copy and paste it in
         | 
         | can you share more about what you have in mind for diagrams?
         | drawing them with shapes or detailed diagrams (excel style)
         | 
         | animations and even code based triggers are features we think
         | could really introduce more depth and interesting authoring
         | abilities to this blogging site. if you have examples of
         | animated diagrams, I'd love to see them and plan features with
         | them in mind
        
           | k__ wrote:
           | I think, it would be nice to illustrate some examplesand easy
           | animations would help.
           | 
           | Like animating the travel of a request through a chain of
           | services, etc.
           | 
           | So, nothing too fancy.
        
             | glitchyowl wrote:
             | gotcha, thank you for elaborating! could be interesting to
             | leverage stickers/transparent gifs for animations too
        
       | PostThisTooFast wrote:
       | What if it WERE more collage-like and colorful
        
       | graphpapa wrote:
       | I think this is great.
       | 
       | It seems to be a popular opinion on this site that 'everyone
       | should have a personal website'.. but I think the options
       | available don't make it a likely outlet for a lot of people
       | because there is too much friction required for too little
       | expressiveness. Even for technical people.
       | 
       | This project seems like fun, and that's a great starting point.
       | 
       | I noticed when clicking around that it is set up so that 'posts'
       | are always embedded within the multiverse site styling. This
       | makes it have less of a 'personal space on the internet' feeling,
       | but it does keep the experience more consistent, compared to if
       | posts filled the whole page.
       | 
       | Was this a deliberate choice to encourage more 'post-based'
       | creation and less 'personal-site' type creation? I am partial to
       | the 'personal-site' approach but 'post-based' suggests other
       | interesting options, like being able to 'reply' to one page with
       | another page, and generally being a little more social
        
         | glitchyowl wrote:
         | i recently learned that the motivation behind creating medium
         | was because of what you've pointed out -- and how curated and
         | pre-designed medium has been is also a trade-off they've chosen
         | to make
         | 
         | striking a balance between easy/fluid ways to express, and
         | blogposts that feel like you is part of why we went to Nintendo
         | and Mac paint for inspirations haha. I personally admire those
         | tools/platforms a lot for how they offer limited yet wildly
         | creative and fun ways to spend time
         | 
         | `post-based` vs `personal-site/webpage` is something we are
         | discussing, maybe there can be a 'full screen' way to remove
         | the frame. fwiw, the first collage blogpost I made didn't have
         | a frame and you can feel it out here:
         | http://weiweihsu.com/2020-07-26/wheres-home
         | 
         | replying to a post and a page imo has a lot of interesting
         | possibilities that are yet to be explored too! the way we have
         | time-based commenting and remixing for videos/audio (on
         | soundcloud, tiktok, etc) has made us wonder in what ways can we
         | get creative with commenting and replying, helping them be less
         | plain
         | 
         | I'm just rambling on and I will pause here. so appreciate your
         | comments here - there's so much work and fun ahead~
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | kickscondor wrote:
       | So we are glitchyowl and kickscondor - this is a collaboration
       | between us - an attempt to make 'blogging' more expressive and
       | visual, possibly to break a piece off and reboot it, now that
       | it's fallen out of fashion.
       | 
       | The Web seems to have converged on a color called 'gwalb' - gray
       | with a little blue. We've gone from home pages - which users
       | could dump endless animated gifs and marquees on to - to giving
       | everyone a roughly 680x680 square to put a picture or some
       | unstyled, unlinked text into. We think being on the Web can still
       | be expressive and casual.
       | 
       | Multiverse is a place for creating visual essays and collages -
       | closer to comics or slideshows than to a 'blog' on Medium or
       | Substack or Wordpress - which are very close to essays. You can
       | also design colorful frames for your posts, to increase the sense
       | of identity, beyond a name and an avatar.
       | 
       | We're not trying to go head-to-head with social media here - just
       | offering a new tool that breaks ranks from the other software out
       | there. We know many of you care about the Web - it has a very fun
       | and freewheeling side to it that we want to help foster, as well
       | as standards like RSS and Webmentions that still make sense! And
       | it's still a great place to meet people and make memories. We've
       | spent the past six months on this. We will probably offer a paid
       | plan if it becomes interesting to people. Are we on the right
       | track here?
       | 
       | - glitchyowl & kicks
        
         | 0des wrote:
         | Hey there! First off, thanks for the submission. It's a
         | refreshing take on the homepages we knew and loved. I'm curious
         | what you plan to have in the paid tier. Can you detail some of
         | your ideas with regard to that? Also, is there an engineering
         | blog that goes into some of the design decisions and mechanics
         | behind the scenes? Very much looking forward to what you two
         | come up with.
         | 
         | Take care, wishing you the best!
        
         | kkukshtel wrote:
         | Hello! I've been a fan of the work both of you do for a while
         | (fraidycat, etc.) and have been pretty excited about multiverse
         | ever since you first started talking about it. However, one
         | thing that has always rubbed me sort of wrong about your stuff
         | is that, as far as I understand, you're employed by Facebook
         | Labs (https://usesthis.com/interviews/kicks.condor/). This
         | interview was the only place I've ever seen that mentioned (and
         | granted it was Nov of last year), so it may no longer be true,
         | but I've always found myself reticent to engage with some of
         | your social experiments because they may be a veiled Facebook
         | R+D project/something that FB would take over if it ever got
         | "too" popular.
         | 
         | I'm hoping you could clear up your relationship to Facebook
         | here and the stuff kicks does - I do truly love all the things
         | you two come up with, but want some peace of mind that I'm not
         | directly helping Facebook build it's roadmap. Thanks!
        
           | kickscondor wrote:
           | Yes it's true that I was invented by Facebook and that my
           | website was shutdown by Disney (and then the FBI - as the
           | other commenter points out - for the Disney shutdown turned
           | out to have been a hoax.)
           | 
           | This is all terrible and I hate my origin story - I agree
           | completely. I understand if you need to bow out on this one.
           | I rub myself the wrong way a lot of the time.
        
             | fumar wrote:
             | "Invented by Facebook." Does that mean this is a FB labs
             | project or this is a personal project?
        
               | kickscondor wrote:
               | Multiverse.plus is a personal project (of glitchyowl and
               | mine.) And I am a personal project of Facebook Labs.
               | 
               | Or possibly the CIA? I get email from two agents who
               | claim to be my handlers and to "come home already". But I
               | don't really know whose story to believe. Can't just look
               | in the mirror to find out.
               | 
               | Ok wow - I am rubbing myself the right direction now!
        
               | jiofih wrote:
               | What is happening here?
        
               | kickscondor wrote:
               | We are six levels deep in an HN thread. It's not looking
               | good.
        
           | kixiQu wrote:
           | I'm >90% sure that was a joke. In the same way that
           | kickscondor.com was not _actually_ seized by the FBI for
           | Kicks Condor being stolen IP from a National Treasure sequel.
        
         | gndclouds wrote:
         | It's been fun to see everyone's personality come through in how
         | they style posts, and creating blogs in a canvas environment is
         | fun. Multiverse has so much character in it. I can't wait to
         | see what blog, comic, tutorial, narratives emerge.
         | 
         | I made post on how color wheels work here:
         | https://multiverse.plus/gndclouds/addresses-of-color-space
        
         | an_opabinia wrote:
         | > Are we on the right track here?
         | 
         | You probably mean on an intellectual level, not in terms of
         | user adoption.
         | 
         | The lack of specificity about who your audience is the toughest
         | part, intellectually, about what you're doing. First let's
         | assume it's the Everyman.
         | 
         | Why do people like a 680x680 picture / selfie of themselves?
         | One reason Instagram has demographics much closer to the real
         | world than Medium does: people already know how to express
         | themselves and define an identity using their bodies. The
         | average person - who might have a 2 year college education, or
         | read fewer than 10 books a year, or who uses fewer than 4 third
         | party apps and websites on their phone - has a more intuitive
         | grasp of fashion, makeup, what their hair color and race and
         | jewelry and the setting and etc. says about them than if they
         | tried to write something down.
         | 
         | What about people who like internet nostalgia? Nostalgia is
         | kind of toxic for trying new things. That same audience also
         | would pick a Star Wars movie over an indie movie every time.
         | Nostalgia is the antagonist of new voices, not the friend.
         | People think nostalgia is superficial, that it's GIFs in the
         | frame, but it's defining an audience that wants the same
         | stories, the same characters, and to stay in a middle to high
         | school comfort zone. Kind of the opposite of what you want for
         | someone's crunchy blogs or wonky essays.
         | 
         | Otherwise, can someone have an argument about what's the best
         | visual design language? It's very subjective. Websites had
         | their moment as a medium, and now they're out of the way in
         | terms of delivering what a visitor came to see. People who
         | express themselves outside their bodies, like writers,
         | musicians, political activists, etc get a lot from the gwalb
         | getting out of the way. Because so much is just getting your
         | voice heard, weird websites turn off visitors far more often
         | than it entices them. Not a very exciting opinion though.
        
           | habibur wrote:
           | Nostalgia a niche market, and every market needs to be
           | served. If he didn't do it, someone else would have as long
           | as there is a demand for it.
        
           | kickscondor wrote:
           | > Nostalgia is the antagonist of new voices, not the friend.
           | 
           | There are negatives to nostalgia - but this isn't necessarily
           | one of them. I would use vaporwave as a counterpoint. (Or any
           | resurgence of a genre.) The nostalgic element is the familiar
           | part; the artist might then be unfamiliar. I personally
           | discover new artists all the time in these nostalgic genres.
           | 
           | Not arguing against your general points about writing vs
           | fashion. (And you make a lot of fun points!) But I don't
           | think a rebirth of hypertext styling is dead in the water.
           | Podcasts were originally seen as just the rebirth of AM
           | radio. And they were - but it turned out to be time for that
           | - and enough innovation transpired that they stuck.
        
         | dqpb wrote:
         | gwalb seems like a good example of "Refinement Culture"
         | recently posted on HN.
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27483207
        
       | kickscondor wrote:
       | Livestream if you want to peek in on Multiverse.plus or ask
       | questions: https://www.twitch.tv/kickscondor/
        
       | onion2k wrote:
       | I don't know if I'll be going back but it's an interesting idea.
       | It reminds me of the geocities/angelfire/myspace/a bunch of other
       | content builders of the early 2000s era of web stuff.
       | 
       | https://multiverse.plus/onion2k/hello-hn
        
         | queuebert wrote:
         | Big geocities energy with seizure-inducing gifs. I feel like a
         | kid with a modem again.
        
           | monijz wrote:
           | beep boop, dial it up!
        
       | lokl wrote:
       | I like your goal "to make 'blogging' more expressive and visual,
       | possibly to break a piece off and reboot it, now that it's fallen
       | out of fashion." I have the impression that, with some of your
       | other projects, Kicks, you are trying to do this for all the web,
       | not just blogging.
       | 
       | However, for my taste, this feels a little too close to Tumblr,
       | which I don't think achieves "expressive and visual" in a deep
       | sense. I hope that you will continue to explore and find more
       | ways to differentiate yourself.
       | 
       | Misc. feedback:
       | 
       | I like how you present small blocks of text, but large blocks of
       | text seem cramped sometimes, difficult to read.
       | 
       | The backgrounds are killing me. Perhaps, each background could
       | have a solid-color fallback and readers could toggle to only
       | display the solid fallbacks?
       | 
       | "Composed on today" -> "Composed today" (likewise for
       | "yesterday")
       | 
       | I hope this doesn't come across as negative. What you're doing is
       | very interesting to me and I look forward to seeing where it
       | goes. It just hasn't fully achieved your stated goal, yet, in my
       | opinion.
        
         | kickscondor wrote:
         | I can totally see this perspective, lokl! We are very uncertain
         | that we're achieving our goals. I think I agree with you that
         | Multiverse doesn't go too far off from Tumblr - and that's
         | deliberate - we wanted to see if we could offer a stepping
         | stone. Start at a familiar place but move in a different
         | direction.
         | 
         | I'd be interested to hear more about achieving expressiveness
         | in a "deep sense" - don't know if you mean offering more
         | hypertext features - something more in the way of Roam or
         | Notion. For us, aesthetics are rather deep - and offering
         | design tools for fleshing out posts and designing frames seemed
         | like something that had gone neglected. I think the posts that
         | are being published so far show a lot of promise. Perhaps we
         | can offer further stepping stones from here, to build more
         | elaborate hypertext.
         | 
         | Really great question - this is exactly what we talk about
         | between each other as well. Thank you for all of the feedback
         | as well. Very much appreciated.
        
       | DiggyJohnson wrote:
       | Very cool - that said, it appears that I'm not receiving (is it
       | being sent?) the sign-up email for new accounts.
       | 
       | Exciting project. Tasteful design.
        
         | kickscondor wrote:
         | Trying signing up on the home page. If it says your email
         | already has an account, try here:
         | https://multiverse.plus/signin
         | 
         | You can also email us at hello@multiverse.plus and we'll look
         | into it. Might be a specific browser issue.
        
           | DiggyJohnson wrote:
           | Hey, thanks for the quick response. So I still don't have any
           | emails, and I couldn't find any other Log-in / Create Account
           | functionality on the home page. In other words: I couldn't
           | find any other way to create an account that wouldn't result
           | in me using the form on /signin.
           | 
           | Maybe I'm being a dummy, let me know if you have any
           | additional suggestion otherwise I will get in touch with the
           | email you provided. This is a _really_ cool project, and I
           | hate to admit some of the unfinished amateur hobby projects I
           | 've created towards similar ideas to multiverse.plus.
        
             | kickscondor wrote:
             | Oh shoot - I missed this comment. There is a sign-up form
             | on the home page: https://multiverse.plus/ Just under the
             | image of the PC.
        
       | mschrage wrote:
       | kicks has such a fun & distinctive visual style. Came to comment
       | that the design reminded me of https://www.kickscondor.com/ and
       | now I understand why!
        
       | glitchyowl wrote:
       | glitchyowl here, one of the creator of multiverse, thanks for
       | peeking in
       | 
       | we want to make blogging on the web a little more casual
       | expressive than it's been. which is why we've went with a free-
       | form canvas with lots of style customisation options ~*
       | 
       | here's my mic check - https://multiverse.plus/glitchyowl/haiyo-
       | multiverse
        
         | kzrdude wrote:
         | Hey, it's all quite inspiring - adding a bit of color.
         | Shameless question coming, is it allowed to rip this off, copy
         | the stylesheets or similar and use a style based off of this on
         | a personal blog?
        
           | glitchyowl wrote:
           | halo kzrdude! for sure, remixing is part of what makes the
           | web fun! right now, you can also export your post as svg,
           | html, or png if you want to carry it somewhere else
           | 
           | we have had discussions about offering ways to embedding
           | (like on the home page) and exporting the styles in json/css
           | format too
        
       | wuz wrote:
       | Been using Multiverse for a bit now and I honestly love it so
       | very much. It's a brilliant mix of creative expression and
       | creative limits - I can make cool stuff without having the
       | infinite array of options that I would in design software. I
       | recently wrote about my experience with old forums when I was a
       | youngling on the internet and creating the post was honestly so
       | much fun! I've felt my creativity really coming back since I've
       | started using Multiverse.
        
         | glitchyowl wrote:
         | ahh wuz you are too kind and your posts are wizardry. it brings
         | me smile to see your (almost) eye-searing pink posts!
         | 
         | in case folks are interested, this is wuz's post on the old
         | forums: https://multiverse.plus/wuz/a-love-letter-to-jred-net
        
       | bovermyer wrote:
       | I like the playfulness of it, and the ability to customize my
       | "voice."
       | 
       | It has the potential to become a new community.
       | 
       | However... I'm confused how to discover groups.
        
         | glitchyowl wrote:
         | hey! groups are definitely very limited right now, there are
         | only a fixed # of groups that you can post to but we are
         | looking to expand that
         | 
         | would love to discuss and hear your ideas on it if you are up
         | for it! we are at hello@multiverse.plus or our discord group is
         | here: https://discord.gg/5MvkKjAyrM
         | 
         | and in case its interesting, humdrum shared their thoughts on
         | groups in this multiverse wishlist post:
         | https://multiverse.plus/kvnk/multiverse-wishlist
         | 
         | and @kickscondor also wrote up some thoughts on the social
         | aspect: https://multiverse.plus/kicks/not-just-a-subreddit
        
           | bovermyer wrote:
           | I joined the Discord and look forward to chatting about this,
           | and other, Multiverse topics!
        
       | chaganated wrote:
       | Where is the source?
        
       | overshard wrote:
       | I honestly miss people building random stuff on the internet to
       | showcase unique information on things like Geocities. They were
       | almost always "ugly" but also always visually entertaining.
       | 
       | I remember skimming through hundreds of car Geocities sites by
       | enthusiasts who had no clue how to build a website but wanted to
       | show off their rides. It was always a rollercoaster of poor UX
       | and bad quality images but something was also fun about finding
       | the random image that was a link to some internal page that had
       | more random links on it to more and more and more.
       | 
       | Now everyone just posts info on curated pre-designed platforms
       | and blogs like Facebook or Blogger which takes out half of the
       | appeal for me, I instantly don't care about anything posted on
       | Facebook and don't have a Facebook account. There is some good
       | content on Blogger and the likes but there's nothing fun about
       | most of the posts.
       | 
       | I clearly have been visiting the wrong sites and probably could
       | dig up similar content to what I miss. It could also just be me
       | being old and grumpy.
        
         | glitchyowl wrote:
         | appreciate what you've expressed @overshard, it resonates
         | 
         | i dont think pre-designed sites and blogs are bad, but I think
         | if/when they are the only (easy/popular) options out there,
         | that's when it feels a little unfortunate
         | 
         | fun and casual is something that we strive for -- a lot of deep
         | and rich things come out of playing and being playful. we hope
         | that we can help contribute a small step toward that
        
         | minikites wrote:
         | >It could also just be me being old and grumpy.
         | 
         | I don't think it's that, I think you're describing the
         | electronic version of an old neighborhood with character versus
         | a modern suburban planned community. Some people genuinely
         | prefer the latter, but there's not much of a choice both online
         | and in the real world these days, so we're all stuck with it.
        
         | depingus wrote:
         | Whenever I see people on here longing for the web of old
         | (surprisingly often) I point them to a great little game called
         | HypnoSpace Outlaw. You play a web enforcer in an alternate
         | reality 90's internet simulator.
         | 
         | It's available on Xbox Game Pass, and here's the Steam link:
         | https://store.steampowered.com/app/844590/Hypnospace_Outlaw/
        
         | kickscondor wrote:
         | Well it's dangerous to give people the tools to design
         | themselves - it's a rare skill and very difficult to blend it
         | all together into a cohesive community! I think many startups
         | of the 2010s saw Myspace design as a disaster.
         | 
         | We're hoping that by having some default color palettes and
         | some common patterns and fonts - as well as limits to paddings,
         | margins and border sizes - that it helps people stay in the
         | ballpark of what a Multiverse post looks like. (Kind of like
         | how you can spot something made with LEGOs from a distance.)
         | 
         | But whatever - creating ugly things should be part of the
         | world. Looking forward to the future of 'ugly', 'bad', 'shoddy'
         | design on the Internet. <3
        
           | dentemple wrote:
           | On the other hand, a ton of us got our start in web design or
           | development due to the freedom of sites like Myspace and
           | Geocities.
        
             | glitchyowl wrote:
             | yeah im one of the kid that is eternally grateful to sites
             | like myspace and geocities
        
           | Hedepig wrote:
           | In the context of hobby websites, the choice of the word
           | "dangerous" is pretty extreme.
        
             | kickscondor wrote:
             | "Disaster" is also hyperbole.
        
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       (page generated 2021-06-23 23:01 UTC)