[HN Gopher] Bee-friendly urban wildflower meadows prove a hit wi...
___________________________________________________________________
Bee-friendly urban wildflower meadows prove a hit with German city
dwellers
Author : rapnie
Score : 283 points
Date : 2021-06-20 17:55 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
| _pmf_ wrote:
| Germans will generally buy any pseudo-ecological snake oil, but
| this is a fad I also want to get behind.
| sunshineforever wrote:
| I remember when this was just a proposal. Half of the users of
| the Facebook group that it was posted in declared that such
| gardens were ableist towards people with bee allergies. Yikes.
| DerSaidin wrote:
| I first read the title as "beer-friendly urban wildflower
| meadows", and thought that would indeed make a lovely beer
| garden.
|
| Maybe these meadows could serve bees and beers? :)
| hangonhn wrote:
| Can any Googlers confirm or deny if this is also what Google is
| doing near their campus? I was out walking my dogs near the
| Google campus and was just stunned by the landscaping that looks
| like a bunch of unmanicured wild flowers in bloom. It was
| simultaneously beautiful but very natural looking. There were
| definitely a lot of bees and "life" around them. As a resident of
| Mountain View, I really appreciated it but wasn't sure if it was
| deliberate and if it was, if this is a new trend.
| sudesh wrote:
| Yes, it's similar. Google maintains a few honey bee hives
| throughout their Mountain View campus, and several areas are
| landscaped with California endemic species to restore local
| biodiversity. It's great to hear the pollinators are staying
| busy!
| neonate wrote:
| https://archive.is/IqKd9
| ash_dev wrote:
| We had a no mow may in the uk, in city and town I live in it
| generally received positive feedback and has continued through
| june, subject to weather. It's makes a pleasant change to the
| square bland strips you'd usually see.
| foxes wrote:
| Urban sprawl catering to the car lifestyle is the mistake. Most
| major cities that cater exclusively for cars are hellscapes
| covered in concrete and parking lots. I truly despise car
| traffic. Cities should be higher density, feature plenty of
| parkland so you can ride and walk through it, plus end of trip
| facilities for those bikes, obviously you need some roads for
| necessary services, but then have an abundance of public
| transport.
| h4kor wrote:
| https://unevenearth.org/2018/08/the-social-ideology-of-the-m...
| atoav wrote:
| As someone who wiped the black dust off his balkony once a week
| I can tell you the absolute worst I had from living at a major
| road was the noise.
|
| When I first slept in my new flat it felt like someone lifted a
| heavy rock off my chest. I hadn't realized just _how much_ the
| noise affected me.
|
| And I am not a noise sensitive person, in fact Metal and Noise
| music are kinda a thing I like.
|
| I think cities first and foremost should look out for the
| people wjo actually live there. Widening roads is the polar
| opposite of that.
| rob74 wrote:
| My current situation: I live in an apartment ~30 km away from
| the next big city (where I used to commute to by train before
| Covid enabled me to have home office). The house is in a nice
| cul-de-sac, and when you look out of most of the windows you
| can't even see a car most of the time (Ok, they're in the
| underground parking garage between the houses, but out of
| sight). However, at night, when it's nice and quiet, you can
| still distinctly hear the buzz of cars, trucks, motorbikes
| etc. on the freeway which is ~2 km away. Shows that you can't
| really escape the effects of automobile traffic, unless you
| want to live somewhere so secluded that you need to use the
| car to do anything, and add to the problem...
| dkdbejwi383 wrote:
| I have just moved from the main road in my neighbourhood (not
| a major road for the city, but busy for the area), where I
| was on the ground floor with a bus stop outside and apartment
| building entrances across the road and next door.
|
| Now, I'm on the top (5) floor, on a much quieter side road,
| and the different is astounding. I can actually sleep with
| the window open in hot weather.
| leoedin wrote:
| I spent a couple of years living next to a main road. Not a
| highway, but one of the main routes into London from the
| south east.
|
| The noise was terrible. It wasn't even that the road was
| particularly constantly busy, but because it was the "main"
| road there was always vehicles. And motorbikes. Motorbikes
| were the worst, by far. Being woken suddenly every hour by
| someone on a motorbike revving their engine wears down on you
| night by night.
| black_puppydog wrote:
| Living in a very walkable old-inner-city I have essentially
| zero cars going through the neighbourhood, especially at
| night. But motorbike and scooters (!) are able to go
| through and a single scooter is easily able to eradicate
| cumulative hours of sleep throughout the neighbourhood
| within seconds.
|
| How these things have not been regulated out of existence
| by now is beyond me. The only silver lining is that I see
| more and more electric scooters. As they're starting to
| make economic sense I hope that the others will phase out,
| but the old ones will have to be removed by force (of law)
| or they'll keep ruining people's health (air & sleep) for
| decades...
| leoedin wrote:
| I think once electric motorbikes are a bit more viable,
| internal combustion ones should be banned. I'm sure
| there's plenty of responsible bike owners, but the bad
| eggs are _really_ bad. They're so incredibly antisocial
| in urban environments (and rural too - at my parents
| house in the mountains you can hear them racing up and
| down the roads a couple of miles away).
| black_puppydog wrote:
| Yeah, I remember a midnight trip to the fort towering
| over Grenoble. You can see the whole town from 1.1km
| above and a few km away.
|
| Everything was so calm and quiet from up there... until
| WRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! a scooter cut
| through the night. :|
| veltas wrote:
| What about the disabled and elderly?
| yodelshady wrote:
| In pedestrianised places, you see these people _actually
| walking_ , or the closest equivalent.
|
| I can run across three lanes of traffic in the 40 nanoseconds
| of pedestrian green I'm given, or stamp on the pedals when
| cycling so I can make a turn in 25 mph traffic. My dad can't
| - so the majority of the town, for him, doesn't exist.
|
| Those groups are exactly the people most screwed over by car-
| friendly design, and using them as a reason to push it more
| is rather poor taste.
| chmod775 wrote:
| There is a large number of disabled people that are
| physically unable or legally not allowed to drive, but can
| get around pedestrian spaces and public transport just fine.
| This includes most wheelchair users and blind people.
|
| The point is already moot.
|
| Also if you can use a car, you could use a mobility scooter
| or electric wheelchair, and you will greatly benefit from
| denser, more developed pedestrian areas featuring amenities
| such as elevators.
| namelessone wrote:
| What about them?
| veltas wrote:
| A lot of accusations flying around here about my intent. But
| just bear in mind that I have a particular person in mind
| that I know is unable to visit anywhere in pedestrianised
| places. They do not have a mobility scooter, can only walk
| like 20 feet, are able to drive still.
|
| So my comments are not motivated by some kind of hidden
| agenda, I am just thinking about someone who has apparently
| fallen through the cracks of the desire that some people have
| to make cities less accessible for cars.
|
| It's a consideration I voice when I get the opportunity, and
| hopefully it will be factored into whatever planning happens.
| Not all elderly people like using mobility scooters, can
| afford them, want to spend extra time getting public
| transport etc etc.
| dkdbejwi383 wrote:
| "pedestrian-first" might be better described as "car-last".
| "Pedestrianised" areas are usually better for folk with
| mobility scooters, wheelchairs, mothers with pushchairs and
| bairns and that.
|
| Less private vehicles with one occupant taking up space means
| there is more bandwidth for busses and trams etc that can
| transport many people (and which have ramps for pushchairs,
| wheelchairs, etc).
| veltas wrote:
| A mobility scooter works if you live close or can use
| transport that uses that. And also if you want one or have
| access to one, lots of e.g. elderly people don't use them.
| They're limited to where they can drive and walk an
| increasingly short distance.
| dkdbejwi383 wrote:
| Exactly, removing some private cars from the roads and
| private car infrastructure (car parks, parking bays,
| over-engineered roads) means more bandwidth for public
| transport which those with mobility scooters, prams, etc,
| can use.
| veltas wrote:
| Public transport is less accessible to people who can
| drive and walk very short distances.
| dkdbejwi383 wrote:
| I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say here.
| We should not invest in public transport for the less
| able because it will inconvenience people who currently
| prefer to drive or walk?
| veltas wrote:
| I didn't say anything about investing in public
| transport.
| detritus wrote:
| > Public transport is less accessible to people who can
| drive and walk very short distances.
|
| Perhaps I'm just stupid, but I can't parse the intent
| behind this response - what do you mean, exactly?
| veltas wrote:
| I know an elderly person that:
|
| - does not have a mobility scooter
|
| - cannot walk more than like 20 feet
|
| - is able to drive
|
| So if e.g. their hairdresser was suddenly in a
| pedestrianised place they would not be able to go there
| anymore. A bus would not help, they would not be able to
| walk to a bus stop, the bus might not go near enough to
| the hairdresser. So in their case the bus is less
| accessible than a car. I'm not saying this is true in
| general, as some disabled cannot drive but can get the
| bus.
| detritus wrote:
| Thanks for the clarification.
|
| But - n=1? Seems like this context disacknowledges
| improvement of infrastructure.
| DataGata wrote:
| Are the disabled and elderly supposed to be able to wield two
| ton death machines better and safer than an electric
| wheelchair or walker?
| veltas wrote:
| Not everyone who struggles to walk more than 20 feet wants
| to use a scooter (or can even afford one), many elderly
| people in that situation already have a car, and many of
| them are able to drive relatively safely. Like people with
| respiratory or heart issues.
|
| And right now they have the option to use a mobility
| scooter or a car, if they lose the option to use a car then
| there will be places that will take a lot longer to get to.
| I think it's reasonable for people like this to prefer
| being able to drive everywhere, it gives a huge amount of
| independence and is clearly can be more convenient than
| public transport.
|
| And there is a dignity aspect as well, I don't know how
| seriously people will take that argument but I understand
| that many older people would avoid doing trips rather than
| using a mobility scooter. I think that deserves
| consideration as well.
| [deleted]
| Tomte wrote:
| Our municipality even gave out such a seed mix for free.
|
| If you're buying somewhere (supermarket etc.): caveat emptor.
|
| Many of the flower mixes are neither native nor appropriate for
| common native insects, but designed for beauty.
|
| It may be a good idea to search for reputable vendors.
|
| There are "famous" standardized mixes in Germany, but I cannot
| remember the names.
| fredley wrote:
| In the city I live in we are lucky to have a lot of parks, but
| also they leave the grass uncut in large portions of them. It
| grows long, with flowers and other plants providing greater
| biodiversity and a habitat for many more insects and small
| creatures.
|
| Some short grass is good, but the overabundance of lawns--
| particularly as the default coverage for parks and gardens--is a
| big problem.
| sohkamyung wrote:
| In Singapore, during last year's Circuit Breaker to break a
| surge in COVID-19 infections, the grass verges were left uncut
| (grass cutters were not allowed to work). It led to a surge in
| butterflies in my local area.
|
| Sadly, it ended after the Circuit Breaker ended, but I did
| notice some local parks now having long grass that would have
| been cut in previous years.
|
| Here's a commentary about that period in the local papers.
|
| https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/commentary/covid-19-cir...
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| techsupporter wrote:
| This is something that cities the world over should be doing,
| both from a bee and a people perspective. Density is a lot more
| nice if greenery is nearby. Doesn't really matter if it's a park
| or an allotment or a library with a wide area. Just plenty of
| "something" with a large "big something" every so often.
|
| In most cities I have experience with, high quality outdoor space
| is largely reserved for the parts of town populated by people
| living in detached, one-family dwellings. The more dense parts of
| town are clustered next to noisy streets or with pollution. Not
| much greenspace. The cities that have gotten it more right than
| wrong are usually in western Europe and parts of Asia.
|
| > Christian Schmid-Egger, who coordinates Berlin's wildflower
| meadows on behalf of the German Wildlife Foundation, said any
| conservation effort would ultimate require broader changes in
| agricultural practices: "If we are going to save the bees, we
| won't be doing it in cities."
|
| He's not wrong, but he's also not fully right either. One of the
| biggest damages we've done to our biome is to pave so much of it,
| largely to make space for automobiles. Animals and insects need
| places to thrive all over and setting aside more space among our
| population for both people _and_ insects makes for a better
| environment.
| rapnie wrote:
| I do some "guerilla seeding" now and then where I live,
| scattering seeds in abandoned city spots that are waiting for
| new housing to be build (which can take years). It is so
| beautiful what flowers emerge, and when I see how both
| residents and tourists enjoy them, taking pictures and such, I
| felt it should be common practice to sow such spaces with
| flowers. Suggested it to our municipality, but after a "Maybe,
| we'll consider it" nothing happened. It is such low effort, low
| cost though.. it has a good ROI in terms of well-being for bees
| and humans alike :)
| matkoniecz wrote:
| Cities in Poland started doing this.
|
| One of motivations was that seeding wild flowers gives reason
| to cut grass less often, allowing to save money and noise.
| Maybe the same applies in USA and cost cutting could be used
| as an argument?
|
| Other motivations were biodiversity and that it is less ugly
| (though not everyone is fan of them).
|
| From city official website: https://www.krakow.pl/aktualnosci
| /237069,1926,komunikat,zdec...
| https://zzm.krakow.pl/dzialania-antysmogowe/393-sianie-
| lak-k... https://www.krakow.pl/aktualnosci/247208,29,komunika
| t,nowe_l...
| Sharlin wrote:
| In my city, a grassroots organization that started as a bunch
| of "guerrilla gardeners" now has their urban meadow projects
| sanctioned by the city, more meadows are being created, and
| they do paid consulting for the city as well on the topic of
| biodiversity and various restoration projects. Very nice.
| Rochus wrote:
| That's a good approach; I looked around what to sow or plant;
| here is a site with useful information:
| http://hummelgarten.ch/dokumente/ (mostly German, but there
| are also a few English documents).
| [deleted]
| TaylorAlexander wrote:
| I've been doing something similar. Collecting native seeds
| from plants that grow well here after they bloom, and
| distributing them to barren spots that need more growth and
| color. I just started but hopefully next year there will be
| more Echium and Lupine around here.
| distances wrote:
| Small warning for Europeans: here Lupine is a introduced
| species that displaces endemic plants. It probably should
| be removed if it's growing in your lands.
| jabl wrote:
| Where I live garden lupine is classified as an invasive
| species, and purposefully spreading it is criminalized.
| Rochus wrote:
| Don't remove it; better a few foreign lupines than no
| more bumble or solitary bees.
| developer93 wrote:
| *replace it with native species
| Rochus wrote:
| Well, what is native? The Lupinus polyphyllus is the most
| common lupine species in Central Europe and has been
| present here for more than a hundred years. It is also
| one of the better bumblebee plants. When farmers mow the
| meadows (cutting down most of the native bumblebee
| plants) the bumblebees can't find anything there and are
| grateful for any garden.
| developer93 wrote:
| I believe it's also poisonous
| _Microft wrote:
| I know that nature conservation authorities had to do
| that here in Germany when these plants spread from
| people's gardens into natural reserves. Please use local
| species instead of invasive ones.
| Mediterraneo10 wrote:
| In highly litigious cultures like the USA, wouldn't a city be
| wary of attracting lawsuits from people with bee-sting
| allergies for putting them at supposed risk?
| croon wrote:
| I know I'm not arguing the merits of this specific case, but
| a world with no bees is a world where basically everyone is
| dead. Living can be hazardous, but some (very slight) dangers
| are necessary in a world that makes living possible.
| hulitu wrote:
| There are also other insects beside bees. A world only with
| bees is also a dead world.
| croon wrote:
| It wasn't meant to be an either/or.
| dan-robertson wrote:
| The US may be litigious but judges and lawyers aren't stupid.
| The key issue is that it would generally be pretty hard to
| find someone sufficiently culpable.
|
| Many cities plant lots of male dioecious trees (ie some
| individuals of the species only have staminate ("male")
| flowers and others individuals only have pistillate
| ("female") flowers, the city plants only the trees that
| produce staminate flowers) which produce twice as much pollen
| as they would if trees were selected more randomly. This is
| because they drop less litter. But it is bad for people with
| allergies. I don't think any such people have had success
| suing their cities for this practice.
| nullc wrote:
| > which produce twice as much pollen as they would if trees
| were selected more randomly.
|
| My understanding is that it's even worse than twice,
| because the female flowers of some species actually filter
| the pollen out of the air.
| dan-robertson wrote:
| It sounds like the "high quality outdoor space" you are
| referring to is something to be found in typical North American
| suburbia, but I would argue that this is typically a bleak
| crabgrass hell and not much higher quality or more alive than
| the road/parking-lot hell that surrounds it. But maybe you are
| instead imagining streets lined with elm trees (well elm was
| traditional but most died of Dutch elm disease--other species
| are used now).
|
| Occasionally one may find an undeveloped lot which has more
| native species growing there, but perhaps we just disagree on
| what a high-quality outdoor space is, and you have something
| much more human-focused than natural in mind. I would argue
| that these _do_ exist in the dense parts of big American cities
| (think Central Park in New York, which has a lot of space but
| also serves a dense population and so can afford more
| gardeners, flower beds, and varied features in general; New
| York also manages to sustain two botanical gardens which have
| reasonable examples of natural habitat too.) Though I would
| imagine the typical US city with a hollowed-out downtown
| mightn't have good parks or shared spaces.
| ben_w wrote:
| As a non-American, American cities haven't impressed me _at
| all_.
|
| However, you may find it interesting to explore the rest of
| the world via Google Street View: I grew up in the South
| Downs of the UK, did my degree in Aberystwyth, spent several
| years in Cambridge and roughly one each in Plymouth and
| Sheffield, and now live in Berlin. These all have a lot of
| greenery within and on their doorsteps, the worst among them
| (Sheffield and Plymouth) being roughly similar to my memories
| of Manhattan.
|
| Street View images of Spain, Greece, and Cyprus remind me a
| lot of rural California (when actually visiting, Spain and
| Greece felt accurate, Cyprus felt like the UK). Most of
| England, Wales, and North-West France reminds me of New
| England. The only places I've been to that were as bleak as
| Nevada/Salt Lake were literally beaches, and even there the
| bleakness didn't stretch to the horizon.
|
| Rhine Valley has some colossal eyesores, but even then you
| get to fantastic countryside in a fairly short cycle ride.
| Everywhere in Switzerland, even the cities, is basically a
| paradise on par with Yosemite, with the occasional mistake
| present (e.g. Zurich motorway); and, with the caveat that I
| was 9 and this was multiple decades ago now, I have lots of
| green memories from when I visited Singapore, Bangkok,
| Adelaide, Sydney, Canberra, and Cairns.
|
| (Nairobi had a lot of green in a lot of places, but I really
| did not feel like I grokked any of the cities' underlying
| patterns in the week I was there, so I can't say if greenery
| implied rich places or poor places).
| kortilla wrote:
| > were as bleak as Nevada
|
| You do know that's the natural state of that region, right?
| It's like complaining about the bleakness of the Sahara or
| Antarctica.
|
| Maybe you meant Las Vegas? Because otherwise your post
| loses its point. Are you complaining about city layouts or
| the fact that deserts exist?
| ben_w wrote:
| It certainly didn't help that I mixed the natural with
| the artificial, but to be specific: American city layouts
| are terrible with respect to "high quality outdoor
| space", so much so that visiting taught me why American
| culture seems to more often talk about youths hanging out
| in malls rather than in parks. Even in places like
| Manhattan -- compare the pedestrian density of Central
| Park to that of Times Square.
|
| American municipalities give me the impression of
| treating their green spaces (or sun-bleached yellow
| spaces, as the case may be) a checkbox item, not of
| actually understanding them and valuing what they can
| provide. (At least not those I visited; I'd be very
| surprised if it was universal!)
| dan-robertson wrote:
| Did it occur to you that I mightn't be American?
|
| I think it's pretty silly to argue about the obvious
| failures of American urbanism and successes in Europe on
| every HN thread about cities. I think main reason these
| failures weren't made in European cities is that those
| cities did not have the same kind of population growth or
| free space or money as American cities.
|
| One difference with America is that there is a little more
| hope of achieving something more like a natural
| environment. Above I wrote about how the "greenery" of
| American suburbia is in some sense inauthentic and dead.
| America does however have a lot of their natural
| environment still in a reasonably wild state (modulo
| invasive non-native species.) In places like the U.K., this
| inauthenticity extends across much of the countryside too.
| The fenland near Cambridge used to be wet and marshy before
| the fens were drained. Much of that habitat is now lost
| (though there are some efforts to recreate it.) Much of the
| landscape of the U.K. is not much more diverse or natural
| than an American lawn, and even bits that look more wild
| like the various moorlands have been significantly changed
| by humans to have more land for grazing (or fowling) rather
| than bogs or forests.
| ericmay wrote:
| So if you read my comments you'll know that I really
| can't stand the automobile culture on America. Just want
| to get that out of the way.
|
| But something I've come to realize is that American
| suburbs have _great_ potential if only people wanted to
| do things and were allowed to. All that green space?
| That's a garden waiting. It's a place to re-plant native
| trees. _AND_ it's also a place to do fun stuff outside
| like throw a football or play soccer a bit.
|
| But many people don't take the time to do any of these
| things, which is such a shame. We have all this space and
| green space that we can do things with. Why aren't more
| people planting!? :(
| serf wrote:
| >So if you read my comments you'll know that I really
| can't stand the automobile culture on America. Just want
| to get that out of the way.
|
| disclaimer : i've enjoyed 'automobile culture' my entire
| life, and have touched nearly everything that it has to
| offer.
|
| the 'automobile culture on America' , at least applied to
| the United States specifically, is absolutely compatible
| with a better managed use of public places; I'm not sure
| why you framed your comment in such a way as to hint at
| an incompatibility between the two concepts : automobile
| culture and citizen-centric management of public spaces
| and infrastructure. The two are absolutely compatible.
|
| I'm not saying that there aren't problems that are caused
| just-about-entirely by the automobile culture, but
| improper use of already-inhabited suburban sprawl isn't
| one of the major ones unless you want to paint all of
| 'suburbia' to be a 'Bad Thing' and condemn automobile
| culture simply due to the enablement of commutes and
| suburban enclaves to exist.
| ericmay wrote:
| I'm thinking back to the GP that I replied to and my
| comment was basically not trying to defend the suburbs
| (it would be very hard to defend continuing construction
| of them), but also we can see some nice things about
| them. At least that was my drift.
|
| I'd agree that automobile culture does't cause people to
| not plant gardens (although maybe it does since why do
| that when you can just drive to the grocery store?) if
| that's where you were going.
|
| Suburbia isn't the best form of development (we already
| know what that is) but automobile culture just makes it a
| monster. It'd be one thing if you could ride a bike from
| the suburbs to the grocery store and back. But even a
| mile away is just out of the question for most people. So
| instead we build giant highways, spend money on highway
| job construction programs, and tolerate lots of money
| being spent on cars that become a necessary prosthetic to
| live life in much of the United States. Not to mention
| all of the unnecessary deaths, particularly teenagers,
| caused by car wrecks.
| kortilla wrote:
| > But many people don't take the time to do any of these
| things, which is such a shame. We have all this space and
| green space that we can do things with. Why aren't more
| people planting!? :(
|
| Many people do. Massive corporations (Lowe's, Home Depot)
| have huge gardening sections with all of the tools to
| help people do this. They usually feature plants from
| local nurseries as well to help encourage things that
| thrive in the region.
|
| I don't know where you got the idea that American
| suburbians don't garden, but it's 100% bullshit. Every
| neighborhood I've lived in ranging from shitty part of
| town to an strict HOA-controlled planned community had
| people planting their own flora. The HOAs add constraints
| but generally leave the backyard to your choosing and
| still lots of flexibility in the front.
| ericmay wrote:
| > I don't know where you got the idea that American
| suburbians don't garden, but it's 100% bullshit.
|
| Yea idk. I can walk down my street and look into
| backyards (not very many fences here) and I don't see any
| gardens. None.
|
| So, I'm speaking generally but in my experience the vast
| majority of people in the suburbs do not actually garden.
| Landscape, sure, and a lot of times they pay some cheap
| labor to do that. Actually garden and grow food? Very
| few.
| tharkun__ wrote:
| Don't put all of America in one basket. I realize you
| probably really meant the USofA but I can tell you that
| Canada is not too far off ;)
|
| We have the same 'everything is lawn' problem. I too am
| fighting crab grass hell in the front but that's more of
| a 'I can't really grow trees or anything else on the
| septic field' problem.
|
| Where I am specifically we have a lot of trees. Forest
| community. There are so many lots here where the only
| sunny places are the septic system and the pool. Loving
| it!
|
| I do get your frustration though. Even with all the above
| said, of the immediate neighbors I can see in all four
| directions only one is really doing it right if you ask
| me. I always see everyone put out the bags of leaves in
| fall for example and I really don't get it. Compost them!
| I do it and one other neighbor does. The rest as well as
| most of the entire neighborhood just puts them out by the
| curb. At least only one of those neighbors waters the
| lawn regularly and the rest just leave it out to get
| brown, so there's less peer pressure to not be the one
| house with a brown septic field lawn ;)
|
| What I didn't dare yet is to just sow a bunch of meadow
| flowers and not mow, coz all the neighbors do mow and
| there are bylaws too.
| ericmay wrote:
| > Don't put all of America in one basket. I realize you
| probably really meant the USofA but I can tell you that
| Canada is not too far off ;)
|
| Yea I guess that's a good point. Canada, Australia, and
| New Zealand too tend to be more suburbanized versus other
| countries. Not quite as bad as America but the problems
| still persist there too. :(
| techsupporter wrote:
| My view of a high-quality outdoor space is one where humans
| can be without the need to pay, with the ability to sit, and
| some space for play or leisure. We should also plan for pets
| being present because no matter how many signs you put asking
| people to not bring their dogs, cats, turtles, or ferrets,
| people will bring them. So let's not assume otherwise. A
| water fountain would be great, a public restroom (like a
| Portland Loo) even moreso in larger areas.
|
| This same space should also have as much of its volume as
| possible given over to natural surfaces. Grasses and hardy
| flowers, in particular. We don't need a rose garden. Most
| plant species native to an area look quite nice if not mowed
| down or stunted with pesticides.
|
| We should encourage property owners to give over some of the
| massive amounts of space currently used for automobile
| operation and storage to these public spaces. Eliminate
| parking minimums so that grocery and other big box stores in
| urban areas are able to rip up the artificial paving and
| return that space to natural use, for example. Make more
| planter box seating in movement rights-of-way. Unused parcels
| owned by governments should not be fenced off but have some
| furniture plopped down and an "everyone welcome" sign placed
| here.
|
| I also want people and their cities to think about more than
| just downtown. Comparatively few people live in "actual"
| downtowns. We need to deal with that, too, so that downtowns
| are not just clusters of tall office buildings that empty out
| at the end of a workday. Nothing says that Downtown cannot be
| a vibrant neighborhood of its own, arguably even easier than
| trying to kickstart other neighborhoods. But just saying
| "putting green space in downtown is difficult" misses the
| many, many other areas of most cities and towns.
|
| (I'm sure someone will come along and say "but you can't
| possibly do this because _the homeless_ " so yes, this does
| mean we are addressing environmental concerns at the same
| time we are addressing human concerns.)
| jonahbenton wrote:
| Every so often I come across the well-intentioned phrase
| "encourage property owners to <do something that sacrifices
| property rights>"....
|
| Quite literally the entire history of "rule of law" in
| human societies can be summed up as a less-expensive-than-
| violence program of defense of rights of property
| ownership.
|
| The only kind of encouragement property ownership will
| sacrifice rights to is that which comes from an army.
|
| Still, tho, good ideas, cheers.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| Tax breaks for land so converted would keep property
| owners in control while encouraging the desired
| behaviour.
| adrianN wrote:
| Property rights haven't been absolute in a long time. We
| have all kinds of laws and taxes that regulate and
| incentivize what exactly you can and can not do with your
| private property.
| kyralis wrote:
| This is fundamentally false. Witness the many
| conservation easement programs, or the agreements that
| have made possible many trail systems.
|
| There are absolutely systems of encouragement - many of
| which may not even be economic! - that cause property
| owners to accept restrictions on their rights.
|
| Not to mention the many laws that fundamentally restrict
| property rights, from zoning to noise ordinances.
| dan-robertson wrote:
| What is the difference between the current American urban
| planning system where certain property is restricted to
| certain purposes and eg developers must devote certain
| amounts of land to parking lots and the proposal of the
| GP where some land must be devoted to certain "green
| space"? (FWIW I mostly disagree and think the city or
| some trust should just own that green space.)
|
| It seems to me like you're ranting against the status quo
| and not anything particular about the parent comment.
| tharkun__ wrote:
| Dogs? Public spaces? Water fountains and such? Horrific!
|
| I will never ever use a public water dispenser ever again
| after seeing that woman let their dog drink from one. He
| basically licked the whole thing from left to right.
|
| Public anything is basically burnt for me (not just by that
| incident) because you never know what pigs were there
| before you.
| ben_w wrote:
| You'd hate Switzerland. Public fountains _everywhere_ ,
| their supply fresh from all the surrounding mountains,
| multiply redundant, many of which are clearly intended to
| be dog friendly.
|
| https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Drinking_foun
| tai...
| guythedudebro wrote:
| You sound like the type of person that should stay inside
| regardless
| goatse-4-u wrote:
| .
| dan-robertson wrote:
| I don't know how to square this description of high quality
| outdoor spaces with your claim above that it exists in the
| suburbs of American cities (is this your claim?), and my
| understanding of American cities. Is there some specific
| place you have in mind? Or is "high quality" relative with
| you describing an unattained ideal here and the reality
| further above?
| germinalphrase wrote:
| Minneapolis gave small grants to homeowners for this purpose. The
| program was well publicized before it began and all slots filled
| immediately.
|
| I know an entomology researcher that is studying the impact on
| native pollinators and (unofficially) they are feeling very
| bullish about the whole thing.
| Tomte wrote:
| Many towns now let neighbours care about "Baumscheiben"
| (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumscheibe) along their streets.
| In my town there are many that have been "adopted", and they are
| sometimes spectacularly beautiful.
|
| There are a few rules: the tree and its roots must not be
| damaged, you must not plant things that grow too tall, because it
| would create dangers in traffic.
|
| City dwellers get to garden a little bit, the town saves on
| upkeep.
|
| And today I'm in Muenster and I saw a nice addition to that: the
| town placed several large water containers along the sidewalk, so
| the people don't have to carry water from their homes.
| fy20 wrote:
| In my city (not Germany) they've started ripping up the bricks
| between trees on pavements (because nobody walks on them), and
| making whole strips of plant beds between pavements and roads.
| debacle wrote:
| I live in a bee-friendly wildflower meadow. It is a 3 acre
| flowery paradise.
|
| I haven't seen a single honey bee this year. Not a one. Fewer
| carpenter bees and even wasps than usual. It's concerning.
| BuyMyBitcoins wrote:
| I live in Texas and I saw a monarch butterfly for the first time
| a few weeks ago. I hope more people let wildflowers grow - as the
| people who are currently doing so seem to be helping the biome
| recover.
| vhodges wrote:
| For readers in the Lower Mainland (of BC):
|
| https://www.westcoastseeds.com/products/bee-turf and/or
| https://www.westcoastseeds.com/products/alternative-lawn-mix
| dan-robertson wrote:
| The biggest cause of these declining populations seems, to me, to
| be intensive agriculture which leads to both loss of habitat and
| various toxic chemicals (pesticides but also fertilisers and huge
| quantities of slurry). Another cause may be pollution but it
| seems to me that we've had pollution for longer. In the U.K. this
| intensive agriculture was started in the war as an effort to
| produce more food locally. It meant less land was left fallow and
| land which had been too poor quality to be viable was farmed
| (with low yields and lots of artificial inputs.) It also means
| that any agricultural runoff is worse for the environment it runs
| into (even fertilisers may cause algal blooms in rivers which can
| then remove the oxygen from the water.) Because farms have to
| stay competitive, there isn't much choice but to continue these
| intensive practices. To some extent, switching to certified
| organic practices allows farms to stop such practices.
|
| It's not so obvious what the solution is. There are a lot of
| people to feed and reducing the productivity of the land in a
| rich country puts pressure on land in other countries. One
| suggested solution is people changing to more land-efficient
| diets with less meat, but I don't really see this happening much.
| pfdietz wrote:
| How do fertilizers kill insects?
| dan-robertson wrote:
| Well insecticides and habitat loss kill insects. Intensive
| farming involves insecticides and habitat loss. And
| fertilisers in runoff may damage ecosystems causing further
| loss of habitat.
| darth_avocado wrote:
| Fertilizers are chemicals. Just because it helps plants grow
| doesn't mean it's not toxic to other living beings, including
| humans. Imagine you being an insect just chilling and
| suddenly you're covered in urea. You'll die instantly.
| nightski wrote:
| Water is a chemical. Just because it helps humans grow
| doesn't mean it can't be toxic to other living beings,
| including humans.
| pabs3 wrote:
| That appears to be true for humans, if you don't take
| enough electrolytes at the same time:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication
| ostenning wrote:
| Jeez, what a constructive comment. I wish everybody in
| the world spoke like you do, what a beautiful world it
| would be
| legulere wrote:
| Most people mean synthetic chemicals when they talk about
| chemicals. Organisms have adapted to naturally occurring
| chemicals and their concentrations, which makes them
| usually less toxic to them.
| hanoz wrote:
| Isn't suddenly being covered in urea a long established
| hazard of the trade for many insects?
| dylan604 wrote:
| I'm guessing bees and other insects have been plying
| their trade for much longer than humans have been
| functioning.
| hanoz wrote:
| I wasn't referring to human urea particularly.
| dylan604 wrote:
| That's not what I meant at all, and I think you know that
| mutatio wrote:
| Urea based fertilizers could be harmful to insect life (e.g.
| it's the active ingredient in "SB Plant Invigorator"). It's
| also worth noting that the fertilization for mono-crops is
| detrimental to diverse plant ecologies - native orchid
| species in the UK have been decimated due to fertilizer run
| off from agriculture - lots of other species native to low
| nutrient chalk downland are also effected. The knock on is
| dramatic decreases in insect populations and diversity,
| butterflies have been hit especially hard.
| scns wrote:
| This. Since use of pesticides is limited by law, farmers
| started using several different ones at the same time.
| WalterBright wrote:
| I've been trying to turn my lawn into a native meadow for years,
| with little success. But the thrum of bees motivates me to keep
| trying.
|
| It's the ugliest lawn in the neighborhood. But the local fauna
| like it.
| akie wrote:
| Amusingly, one of the image captions in this article describes
| Kreuzberg as a "suburb". Kreuzberg is many things, but it's most
| definitely not a suburb.
|
| Depending on who you ask, it's either one of the most "dangerous"
| "immigrant" neighbourhoods in the country, or one of the creative
| centers of the Berlin art scene, or startup/hipster central. But
| suburb.... no.
| henryteeare wrote:
| In some countries, e.g. Australia or South Africa, suburb just
| means "neighbourhood" rather than specifically an outlying one.
| Rochus wrote:
| This is very important and worrisome. People usually know only
| the honeybees. But, for example, bumblebees are at least as
| important in pollination (even more diligent than honeybees
| because they fly even in bad and cold weather).
|
| But this year is extreme; here in Switzerland I hardly see
| bumblebees anymore, no idea why. I am far from being the only one
| who has noticed this. Here, for example, a detailed blog (in
| German), where an incredible planting in contrast to previous
| years is hardly visited by bumblebees:
| http://www.hummelgarten.ch.
| snovv_crash wrote:
| Maybe it was due to the very cold winter?
| Rochus wrote:
| Well, I remember much harsher winters twenty years ago which
| apparently was no issue for the bees. And until some weeks
| ago I actually saw many bumblebee queens on the flowers, but
| then by end of May the number suddenly decreased sharply.
| Must be another reason.
| tharkun__ wrote:
| I'm in Canada, meaning really cold winters (caveat: which
| the species here would also jsut be more used to to be
| fair). I am seeing the same amount if bumble bees in my
| suburban yard, which I suppose is good.
|
| I don't see many honey bees or yellow jackets. In
| comparison to what I remember from Germany. I have been
| eating pie outside without issues for many years here. In
| Germany that's impossible without getting a yellow jacket
| or five attacking your pie.
|
| But we do get our honey from a local bee keeper and so far
| KO drying up if supplies. Fingers crossed.
| qayxc wrote:
| I found many dead bumblebees this year and many of them
| were infected with mites.
|
| It seems as if varroa mites have carried viruses from
| infected honey bees to wild bees and are killing a lot
| them.
| Rochus wrote:
| Is this analyzed by science? Are there any publications
| on this?
| enriquto wrote:
| maybe they removed stray cats? This was the famous example by
| Darwin on the equilibrium of ecosystems. If there are no cats,
| mice proliferate, eating all bumblebee nests, and clover
| disappears because it depends on bumblebee pollinization.
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