[HN Gopher] The mind of a murderer: the power and limits of fore...
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       The mind of a murderer: the power and limits of forensic psychiatry
        
       Author : axiomdata316
       Score  : 43 points
       Date   : 2021-06-18 22:59 UTC (3 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
        
       | denton-scratch wrote:
       | I think I might order this book.
        
       | exhilaration wrote:
       | Slightly off-topic but related, I started watching the JCS
       | Criminal Psychology channel and it's incredible. Police
       | interviews of convicted killers, mass shooters, and even a few
       | innocent people:
       | https://www.youtube.com/c/JCSCriminalPsychology/videos
       | 
       | Their latest video is of the Parkland mass shooter.
       | 
       | Once I finished their YouTube videos their Patreon had a few
       | more: https://www.patreon.com/jimcantswim
        
         | Smithalicious wrote:
         | I think this channel hit the YouTube algorithm lottery, I feel
         | like everyone is talking about it these past few days
        
           | robocat wrote:
           | I don't participate in social media (unless hn social media)
           | so this feels reminiscent of "did you watch that on TV last
           | night", which no longer exists for most of us.
           | 
           | The series is very good, and it reminds me why I am glad to
           | live in New Zealand - where most of my interactions with the
           | police have been pleasant (being middle class white guy may
           | help there). I saw a policeman with a sidearm the other day,
           | which was very surprising to me (they don't usually carry,
           | although I think they mostly now do have a shotgun locked in
           | the boot of the patrol car).
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | diplodocusaur wrote:
         | It's interesting to see this mentioned in different places and
         | wonder how much "the algorithm" shapes group thought. Or it
         | goes the other way? Did you search for it?
         | 
         | I watched them too. They're surprising.
        
           | morsch wrote:
           | I didn't search for it, and I have no particular interest in
           | the topic, but YouTube has been relentlessly trying to get me
           | to watch their most recent video for a couple of days.
        
         | aaron-santos wrote:
         | JCS Criminal Psychology is a fantastic reminder and deep dive
         | into what happens when you talk to police, why you shouldn't,
         | and what you should do instead. It details interrogation
         | techniques [Reid] in a way that made me understand precisely
         | how lying, leverage, and power factor into getting suspects to
         | self incriminate without necessarily admitting guilt. As a side
         | note it was fascinating that multiple times, interrogators lied
         | about realtime, see through walls, global satellite coverage
         | and not once did a suspect question that ability. It was great
         | being a domain expert on something to see exactly how far
         | interrogators will lie in order to elicit a response. (Not a
         | lawyer. Not your lawyer)
        
           | handrous wrote:
           | > Not a lawyer. Not your lawyer
           | 
           | You don't need this. "IANAL" was just a (partly tongue-in-
           | cheek) way to provide context so people didn't mistake a
           | poster for a legal expert if they're writing with an
           | otherwise authoritative tone, but really that's just assumed
           | unless stated otherwise, and "I am not your lawyer" is part
           | of a common disclaimer by actual lawyers to make it 1000%
           | clear that they're not providing legal advice in their
           | official capacity and so creating a lawyer/client
           | relationship, when posting their opinions online. No part of
           | this is even _maybe_ needed if you 're not a lawyer, and even
           | the "I am not your lawyer" thing is probably an example of
           | excessive ass-covering (but the law's all about that, so, no
           | surprise there)
        
             | aaron-santos wrote:
             | Thank you. It's a tough habit to break after reading it for
             | so many years.
        
               | handrous wrote:
               | Oh, I get it. It's a weird self-reinforcing meme (in the
               | classical sense). People see it, so they write it, so
               | others see it, so _they_ write it, some of the ones along
               | the line think there must be a good reason so they 're
               | _really_ careful to write it, and so on.
               | 
               | Really similar to how language evolves generally, through
               | misunderstandings or misappropriated terms that come to
               | _actually_ mean the thing they were initially mistaken to
               | mean (possibly losing the original sense entirely, sooner
               | or later), except that in this case it 's not actually
               | signifying anything. Just a linguistic tic.
        
             | c22 wrote:
             | Is this legal advice?
        
               | handrous wrote:
               | I am a fake lawyer. I am not _your_ fake lawyer. This isn
               | 't _not_ fake legal advice.
        
           | zozbot234 wrote:
           | It's not really about leverage or power. It's more of a
           | strategic setting where the winning move is either to be 100%
           | truthful (if you're innocent - and even JCS acknowledges
           | this!) or not to play.
           | 
           | > As a side note it was fascinating that multiple times,
           | interrogators lied about realtime, see through walls, global
           | satellite coverage and not once did a suspect question that
           | ability.
           | 
           | An interrogator _can_ lie about what evidence they have, and
           | yes some interrogators in the JCS videos overdo this in a way
           | that 's likely abusive. It _can_ however be strategically
           | beneficial to the innocent if done lightly and with proper
           | foreknowledge, because _if_ you can precisely and vigorously
           | call the interrogator 's BS about what evidence they do or do
           | not have, this sets you apart from someone who's just making
           | stuff up as they go along and cannot possibly be able to do
           | this.
        
             | aaron-santos wrote:
             | That's all well and good, but no one is innocent[1], so the
             | only winning move is not to play.
             | 
             | [1] https://mises.org/library/decriminalize-average-man
        
             | mattnewton wrote:
             | Even a 100% innocent person can make trouble for themselves
             | when talking to the police, with virtually no potential
             | benefit in the US. Once you are being detained and
             | questioned by a detective in the US justice system, you
             | should not speak without an attorney, full stop: see
             | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE
        
           | splithalf wrote:
           | I have a similar reaction to a lot of YouTube psychology. So
           | much confirmation bias and other nonsense passing for facts.
           | It takes a lot of caution and care to discuss behavior
           | without inadvertently misinforming people. Pinker is really
           | excellent in this regard. Scott Alexander would be another
           | person who is able to reason about behavior without
           | misinforming. I think both should be more active in
           | advocating for criminal justice reform, knowing what they
           | know. Forensic psychology has a lot of skeletons in its
           | closet.
        
             | aaron-santos wrote:
             | > Forensic psychology has a lot of skeletons in its closet.
             | 
             | I'm in agreement. One minor example, for as much as anyone
             | thinks the Hippocratic Oath has worth - let's be honest,
             | this is HN, there is sure to be a spectrum of opinions -
             | psychologists are NOT required to swear it.
        
               | fedreserved wrote:
               | Because the Hippocratic oaths are reserved for doctors of
               | medicine/osteopathy , not for psychologists.
               | Psychiatrists are doctors of medicine, psychologists are
               | not
        
         | JohnWhigham wrote:
         | The first interview in the Parkland video is exactly like Seb
         | in the article: cold, disconnected, seemingly unbothered
         | they've been apprehended, providing only the facts of their
         | murders.
        
       | klodolph wrote:
       | I caught some TV archive footage from a Netflix program about Son
       | of Sam (David Berkowitz)...
       | 
       | There was a psychologist on TV who objected when someone said he
       | had expertise with serial killers. He replied that _nobody_ in
       | psychology had expertise with serial killers, because there are
       | simply too few serial killers who are in therapy.
       | 
       | The psychology of killers has a lot of allure but the way it's
       | portrayed in the media (Silence of the Lambs, Criminal Minds,
       | etc.) has little to do with reality.
        
         | user3939382 wrote:
         | This interview with Richard Kuklinski is an interesting data
         | point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4Hb2oRhrLM
         | 
         | There's some evidence that he didn't kill as many people as he
         | claims, or work with the mob as he claims, but he's definitely
         | a serial killer in any case.
        
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       (page generated 2021-06-21 23:01 UTC)