[HN Gopher] U.S. Pledges to Return Okinawa to Japan (1971)
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U.S. Pledges to Return Okinawa to Japan (1971)
Author : gumby
Score : 19 points
Date : 2021-06-18 15:55 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.nytimes.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.nytimes.com)
| vmception wrote:
| We should have kept so much stuff in the Pacific
|
| Okinawa is fine but US administration would have been so good for
| the Philippines compared to what it is today. We should have kept
| that for 100 years by now.
| spfzero wrote:
| Remember that then, pre-jet-travel, the Philippines were very
| remote, and shipping including paper mail took weeks. It
| wouldn't have been an easy task to integrate into the USA, when
| looked at in 1946 or whenever.
|
| As a former colony itself, the USA was somewhat anti-colonial
| in its diplomacy in the early 19th century, especially in
| regards to (pre-communist) China. Helping a former colony
| become an independent democracy would have been the more
| attractive option at the time.
|
| It's likely true many things would be better for the people
| living there now, if the US had kept it. Not arguing. But those
| are the people who deserve to run it, for better or worse.
|
| The US is free to make whatever agreements, treaties, etc. that
| both parties think make sense, just like US relations with any
| other country. When their interests align with those of the US,
| the US would be smart to encourage. When not, it's just not to
| be.
| LatteLazy wrote:
| Puerto Rico hasn't made much progress. Plus you can't insist
| possible rivals (Brits) give up their empire while building
| your own...
| ArkanExplorer wrote:
| GDP per Capita in PR is still about 3-4x higher than nearby
| Caribbean nations.
| LatteLazy wrote:
| Technically their closest neighbour is the British Virgin
| Islands. Gdp per capita is about 45k there. It's only 32k
| in PR right? But that's not really fair of me.
|
| I think its hard to find a good comparison here. Even my
| choice of PR is deeply flawed (population 3m vs the
| Philippines at >100m).
|
| For me, the question is mainly political. Its not "could
| the US have made the Philippines a richer more developed
| nation" because the answer to that is YES. The question is
| "would the US political system and electorate every have
| permitted the project to happen". That's a much harder
| question to say yes to imho.
| sudy7egeg wrote:
| Why not? You can demand anything you want and I've yet to see
| a country agree to a demand simply because the other party
| wasn't a hypocrite.
| LatteLazy wrote:
| At the end of WW2, the US needed all the allies it could
| get against the USSR. They were the real winners of the
| conflict, the red army was considered unstoppable and
| Stalin controlled everything from the sea of Japan to (well
| past) the middle of Germany. The assumption was that if
| Russia didn't stop when they met the Western allies' lines
| they would have taken mainland Europe within a few weeks.
| It was a crazy time.
| vmception wrote:
| I thought about that too, we've had PR since that long
|
| But I think Philippines would have still attracted capital to
| create Manila and for everything outside of it there would be
| a better baseline of infrastructure and rule of law
| LatteLazy wrote:
| If it became a fully integrated state then maybe. But
| Puerto Rico is routinely excluded from all sorts of
| "baselines" sadly (so are other non-state territories).
|
| I sadly doubt the US (at the time still refusing to give
| black people the vote) would have welcomed a state filled
| with Asians, made of 4000+ Islands. The islands have over
| 100m people, so they'd basically decide federal elections,
| plus that's a lot of people to suddenly have to bring up to
| baseline.
| vmception wrote:
| these were the primary arguments in Congress against
| admitting Hawaii into the union as a state until some
| routine "support my other bill I'll support that bill"
| all the way till 1959
|
| there were just enough representatives that couldn't
| imagine the "absurdity" of having Asian representatives
| for Asian/Polynesian constituents in the United States
| LatteLazy wrote:
| Remember as well, Hawaii (pop 1.4m) gets 2 reps and 4
| electoral college votes. That's a much easier swallow
| than whatever 100m Philippinos would get...
| vmception wrote:
| Philippines has a third of the US population size by now,
| or well it would be one fourth of the US population size
| if it was included
|
| but in 1900 it had 6.5m while US had 76 million. So it
| would be 8%, not insignificant but nowhere as wild as you
| would think at the time.
|
| in 1960 this proportion would have ballooned to 14%
|
| Just some additional perspective
| gurleen_s wrote:
| None of that belongs to the US... we shouldn't have touched it
| in the first place.
| spfzero wrote:
| Well it didn't belong to Spain either, which I imagine would
| still have it if the US had not "touched" it.
| Craighead wrote:
| Instead it belongs to a warlord.
| gumby wrote:
| That is the classic argument of the colonizer.
| vmception wrote:
| you say that like its a pejorative
|
| we had the Philippines, and it sucks now. The US is fighting
| Al Queda in the remote islands the more dense islands are run
| by an autocratic psychopath, sustained because the people are
| tired of all sorts of other vices running rampant
| mjh2539 wrote:
| https://archive.is/msFnu
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(page generated 2021-06-18 23:02 UTC)