[HN Gopher] Syria's exam-related Internet shutdowns
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Syria's exam-related Internet shutdowns
        
       Author : jgrahamc
       Score  : 103 points
       Date   : 2021-06-17 11:27 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.cloudflare.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.cloudflare.com)
        
       | stewx wrote:
       | How does cutting off Internet access across the board not
       | dramatically hamper daily life and business? They must rely a lot
       | less on it than we do in highly developed countries.
        
         | bellyfullofbac wrote:
         | Nowadays there's a new meme in the form of "Tell me you're X
         | without telling me you're X".
         | 
         | https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/tell-me-without-telling-me
         | 
         | This is a good example of "Tell me you're a backwards country
         | without telling me you're a backwards country." (if there's any
         | insult meant, it's towards the leaders of that country bombing
         | it to the stone age).
        
         | ceejayoz wrote:
         | The country has been in a brutal civil war for a decade now,
         | with something like half the population displaced from their
         | homes.
         | 
         | Internet's probably not on the top of the list of things you
         | count on.
        
           | paganel wrote:
           | Fortunately for them things seem to have entered in a status-
           | quo that strongly resembles peace since the Battle of Aleppo
           | ended (that was about 4 years ago) and more generally since
           | the Syrian Army's latest offensive in Idlib was stalled by
           | the Turkish troops (late 2019 - early 2020).
        
           | tbirdz wrote:
           | On the contrary, I think Internet access would be even more
           | important in that kind of situation
        
             | hn8788 wrote:
             | You can't eat internet access, or use internet access for
             | shelter or self-defense, so it's probably not important for
             | a lot of people.
        
               | bagacrap wrote:
               | you definitely can use it to learn about threats or to
               | find shelter or food
        
               | tbirdz wrote:
               | No but you can use it to check news and current events,
               | safety conditions, communicate with friends and family,
               | and find information to help you survive better
        
       | naveen99 wrote:
       | Ironically, California is getting rid of the exams.
        
       | carschno wrote:
       | I suppose exams of which answers are googleable are not very
       | useful for anything other than pushing piles of facts
       | (temporarily) into students' heads. But I also suppose that the
       | Syrian governement is probably not the best counterpart to argue
       | about progressive education methods with.
        
       | karmicthreat wrote:
       | These super tests are dumb in any case. All it ends up measuring
       | is who is most effective at cheating. The people that came up
       | with this system probably wouldn't be able to pass it
       | legitimately either.
        
         | tester756 wrote:
         | cheating on this kind of exams? good luck
         | 
         | anyway, standarized exams are the best avaliable tool
         | 
         | I wish there were exams like that after high edu in my country,
         | just like some top schools in india do it (GATE Exam)
        
       | pranau wrote:
       | This happens in North Indian states as well where the state
       | governments have gotten extremely trigger happy with cutting off
       | internet access for trivial reasons like student exams. It's
       | extremely frustrating and makes me wonder how people keep voting
       | the same morons (I'm sorry but I do not have a charitable word
       | for them) back into power.
        
         | 908B64B197 wrote:
         | The best vote of confidence is the brain gain/drain ratio.
         | 
         | Are smart, educated and highly motivated professionals going to
         | North India or are they leaving it?
        
           | bagacrap wrote:
           | if I wanted to rule without opposition I might take steps to
           | drive away or suppress the intelligentsia, so I'm not sure
           | what your metric is really measuring, maybe effectiveness of
           | my tyranny?
        
           | HenryKissinger wrote:
           | I generally agree, but this doesn't work in countries that
           | restrict cross border movement of their own citizens.
           | 
           | North Korea neither gains talent from abroad nor loses talent
           | to other countries. Europe loses talent to the United States.
           | It's a flawed comparison, but North Korea is not a better
           | place to work and do business than Europe, which this
           | comparison would imply.
        
         | MeinBlutIstBlau wrote:
         | Because they aren't being "voted" in.
        
         | unmole wrote:
         | Because the other set of morons are not necessarily any better.
        
           | nindalf wrote:
           | Ah yes, the evergreen complaint in Indian politics. No matter
           | how bad the current government is, it's supporters will claim
           | the alternative is worse. Even when tens of thousands of
           | people were dying because of COVID, people like this would
           | say "abe librandu (hey libtard), if not Modiji then who?"
           | 
           | Such people missed the obvious answer - the other side might
           | not be perfect but anyone is better than someone who boasted
           | about hosting the largest crowds he had ever seen ... during
           | a pandemic.
        
             | unmole wrote:
             | I'm not even remotely a BJP supporter, as my comment
             | history will attest to.
             | 
             | The union government's Covid response has been
             | spectacularly bad, anyone who argues otherwise is a
             | brainwashed idiot.
             | 
             | If INC was in government some of the more megalomaniacal
             | screwups might have been avoided. Lockdown wouldn't have
             | been announced just hours before it went into effect for
             | example.
             | 
             | However, I don't see the overall results being much better.
             | Be it Sanghis, Commies, Congressis or any flavour of
             | regional satraps, I can't think of a single state
             | government that actually did a halfway decent job.
        
               | lucian1900 wrote:
               | Kerala did much better than other states in terms of a
               | rational and effective response to covid.
        
               | yunohn wrote:
               | This was a narrative, but not necessarily true?
               | 
               | Early 2020: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-
               | india-53431672
               | 
               | Late 2020:
               | https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/kerala/compelling-
               | que...
        
               | lucian1900 wrote:
               | The failure narrative is not necessarily true either. Are
               | we to trust British state propaganda of all things?
        
               | yunohn wrote:
               | I never claimed it was false. I said it's not entirely
               | true. I think like most states, Kerala has a lot of
               | misplaced pride, and fail to see that their politicians
               | are similarly problematic. Just like the common criticism
               | of BJP, they too neglected COVID policies during voting
               | periods.
        
               | lucian1900 wrote:
               | By pretty much any metric Kerala handled the pandemic
               | better than other states. It's worth looking at the
               | material interests behind narratives. British imperialism
               | (as export of capital at usury rates) is still heavily
               | invested in India and communists winning in other states
               | would threaten profits.
               | 
               | The CPI (M) can hardly be compared to the BJP, they're
               | complete opposites.
        
               | yunohn wrote:
               | Nobody is saying the metrics are identical, nor the
               | parties. I'm saying that politicians are fallible, and
               | commit similar injustices to their citizens. I believe
               | it's crucial to have a nuanced discussion where any side
               | is criticized for their shortcomings.
               | 
               | From the Hindu, a decidedly anti-BJP, left news org:
               | "Political exigencies also led the government to
               | deliberately delay conducting a serosurveillance study
               | till local body poll results were out".
        
               | lucian1900 wrote:
               | It still looks to me like comparing minor flaws to active
               | state oppression and neglect. "Both sides" arguments
               | imply some sort of equivalence which the outcomes don't
               | support in this case.
        
               | unmole wrote:
               | > British imperialism (as export of capital at usury
               | rates) is still heavily invested in India and communists
               | winning in other states would threaten profits.
               | 
               | What?
        
               | lucian1900 wrote:
               | Which bit is confusing?
               | 
               | Imperialism as a stage of capitalism is alive and well.
               | Rich countries remain rich by extracting wealth from poor
               | countries, generally in the form of exporting capital to
               | exploit cheap labour.
               | 
               | Communists are anti-imperialists and if elected in all of
               | India would fight against British (and US and Western
               | European) exploitation. The British state propaganda arm
               | would of course be opposed to communists in India, so as
               | to not threaten the profits of the British ruling class.
        
             | ChrisRR wrote:
             | That's the issue in many (or most?) countries' politics.
             | 
             | Rather than focus on the issues, just keep shouting about
             | how bad the other side would've been if they had been in
             | power.
             | 
             | Somehow, UK tories always found a way to make it Corbyn's
             | fault. Trump ads showed pictures of Trump's america,
             | claiming that's what would happen under Biden.
        
               | Loughla wrote:
               | It's literally the easiest scare piece you can write.
               | 
               | Yes, it's bad, but IMAGINE HOW BAD IT WOULD BE IF _THEY_
               | WERE IN CHARGE.
               | 
               | Regardless of who _THEY_ is, the people who will respond
               | to those ads will do the actual legwork of filling in all
               | the awful gaps in what could be happening.
               | 
               | It's ridiculous that it works, but it really seems to be
               | effective.
        
               | buran77 wrote:
               | Creating an enemy is politics 101 and routinely used by
               | people of all walks of life. It's the easiest way not
               | only to excuse your low performance, which is suddenly
               | made to look good by comparison, but will also keep the
               | people busy with worrying about that "larger evil" while
               | you do your thing. Sets a low bar and distracts you from
               | real issues.
               | 
               | The opposition would have crippled the country even
               | worse, that other country violates human rights far more
               | egregiously, and that other plumber would have needed
               | even more attempts to get that "paranormal" leak fixed.
        
             | vmception wrote:
             | These are valid criticisms though
             | 
             | Nobody else will run, because by not being a career
             | politician it means you didn't curate your life to be
             | devoid of different random criticism from people just
             | looking to derail your ambitions and character on the
             | inter/national spotlight.
        
       | dt3ft wrote:
       | What if (and hear me out), the internet had a shut-down period,
       | say, once a month, on a sunday or so. What would society look
       | like? What kind of changes would we see? (provided, emergency
       | services stay reachable).
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | stickfigure wrote:
         | It would look like this:
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eruv
         | 
         | People would use crazy contortions of logic to figure out how
         | to enable the internet and do what they want to do anyway.
         | 
         | "Emergency" services, you say? It would normalize "on Sundays
         | we put on uniforms so we can access the internet". In a
         | generation or two, not wearing fireman's turnouts on Sunday
         | would be considered sinful. In a couple more generations, there
         | would be violent street clashes between the fireman-uniform
         | denominations and the police-uniform denominations.
        
         | LinuxBender wrote:
         | I think it's an interesting thought experiment. Would
         | applications improve their capabilities around caching, local
         | processing, spooling of transactions and treat the internet as
         | the "optimal" state but not required? What services are
         | impossible to process locally? _e.g. cache map data, road
         | conditions locally, present a "last updated" time on maps..
         | purchase things over encrypted sms with some token mechanism,
         | etc..._
        
         | awb wrote:
         | There are plenty of rural towns and homesteads with no cell or
         | Internet service in the US where this is the reality 24/7. Even
         | here in the Bay Area in the Santa Cruz mountains and in Big Sur
         | there are places like that and people living a fully
         | disconnected lifestyle.
         | 
         | So from a personal / family point of view, it would probably
         | feel like the 80s or early 90s. You'd have modern amenities
         | with landlines being the primary form of connection.
         | 
         | From a business / services perspective, places would have to
         | have more robust backup and service continuity systems in place
         | to keep things running smoothly during the outages. But this is
         | just best practice anyway, so I'm not sure it would have as big
         | an impact as we might think.
        
         | jjk166 wrote:
         | Probably the same thing that would happen if we shut off
         | electricity or running water for one day a month.
         | 
         | There's no reason everyone suffer because a small handful of
         | people lack the self discipline to disconnect.
        
         | swiley wrote:
         | The internet was empowering to PC users. Now that PCs have
         | mostly been replaced with smartphones we think of it as a bad
         | thing used to feed addictions and serve ads/television because
         | that's what it's become.
        
         | sneak wrote:
         | Many people would lose access to transportation of many
         | different kinds. Some people might lose their jobs.
         | 
         | Some people would lose access to their usual forms of delivered
         | food, and would have to prepare in advance (buying food on
         | Saturday to have on hand the next day).
        
         | tomjen3 wrote:
         | All websites that allows you to stream things would have a
         | short term download feature.
         | 
         | People would use phones to actually call others, which would
         | make them easier to spy on.
         | 
         | It would be overall very inconvenient, but some Karens would
         | think it was good for all the young nerds and it would stick
         | around for that reason.
         | 
         | It wouldn't get people to meet up in real life much more than
         | they do now, because it would be difficult to organize and it
         | would be difficult to find where you are going without GPS.
        
         | mananaysiempre wrote:
         | I'd guess it'd be similar to how some European cities prohibit
         | all large retailers (including food stores) from opening on
         | Sunday, except a hell of a lot more expensive.
         | 
         | You'd need extra shifts on site, redundant local networks for
         | emergency services, redundant links for phone companies, extra
         | space in ports and warehouses, special contingency plans,
         | _etc._ And all of that gets excercised 1 /30 less often than
         | usual so is more prone to failure--in a situation of where
         | communication is degraded in the first place.
         | 
         | An ISOC report on government Internet shutdowns
         | (https://www.internetsociety.org/wp-
         | content/uploads/2020/02/I...) says Zimbabwe lost 5.7 million,
         | or 10% daily GDP, per day during a sudden six-day shutdown.
         | 
         | A regular shutdown would be more workable, but given the
         | countries you're interested in are probably more Internet-
         | dependent than Zimbabwe something on the order of 0.1% GDP when
         | averaged over a month still sounds plausible. For scale, the US
         | federal government spends 1.2% GDP on education.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | That sounds about right. Depending upon what "shutting down
           | the Internet" means. Does everyone need to now have a POTS
           | landline again if they want to communicate with anyone on a
           | Sunday? But, in general, some combination of alternative
           | systems for critical purposes and lots of things, including
           | most shopping and other services, simply shutting down for
           | the day.
        
           | em-bee wrote:
           | the reason for the closure is employment laws. employees
           | simply have the right to not be forced to work on sundays or
           | public holidays.
           | 
           | if you run your own business you can work whenever you want.
           | you just can't have employees work those days.
           | 
           | restaurants, hospitals, transportation and similar industries
           | get an exception to let employees work any day. restaurants
           | usually close on mondays instead.
        
             | mananaysiempre wrote:
             | It's not that I'm _objecting_ to the closure: it is
             | certainly very inconvenient at first (I did go without food
             | on quite a few Sundays when I couldn't gather the
             | determination to hike to a small shop), but not unworkable;
             | it was simply a convenient comparison (if with much lighter
             | economic consequences). I suspect the precise conditions
             | vary by country, because I've certainly bought stuff from
             | hired cashiers on Sundays, it's only the supermarket chains
             | that didn't work.
             | 
             | As to the rights argument, I tend to be wary of them in
             | general, because any mention of a "right" tends to have an
             | absolute or moral quality to it, and those are dangerous
             | enough not to be used lightly or without justification.
             | 
             | The goal of guaranteeing people a holiday is not itself bad
             | (I'm just not ready to call it a "right"), but can be
             | reached in quite a few other ways, such as (off the top of
             | my head) prohibiting employment contracts that span a
             | weekend boundary or just flat out prohibiting contracts
             | that mandate work on holidays except for (strictly
             | optional) overtime. Each of the options can have additional
             | effects (such as shaping the weekend ambiance of your city
             | in a certain way or making overtime _de facto_ obligatory
             | for low-paying jobs), and I'm not against deciding that any
             | of them is best, only against not recognizing the existence
             | of the choice. My concern is the intellectual honesty, not
             | the employment politics.
        
           | londons_explore wrote:
           | It is common across lots of Europe for most or all shops to
           | be closed on Sundays.
           | 
           | The local population don't view that as odd or inconvenient -
           | simply as 'the way things are'.
           | 
           | As a visitor though, it means you need to plan ahead at least
           | 24 hours - if you haven't bought food for sunday by midday
           | saturday, there's a good chance you're going hungry.
           | 
           | I would be very interested to know the macroeconomic impact
           | of such a policy. Presumably labor running shops is reduced,
           | but overall sales volume is not, which could outweigh the
           | economic cost of inconvenience for the whole population...
        
             | em-bee wrote:
             | most visitors don't cook for themselves though. restaurants
             | are open, so only a few people will be inconvenienced by
             | closed supermarkets. they are probably more inconvenienced
             | by closed restaurants on mondays.
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | It was pretty normal in the US as well until a few decades
             | ago. When I was an undergrad, very little in the city I
             | lived was open on a Sunday. I remember it being a nuisance
             | as an undergrad. I often had classes and other things to do
             | during the week and often had sports on Saturday, so
             | finding the time to do shopping runs during the week could
             | be a pain.
             | 
             | Historically, the reason was religious. But mom and pop
             | stores also often opposed Sunday opening because large
             | retailers were in a better position to just add incremental
             | staff than they were.
        
             | tester756 wrote:
             | >The local population don't view that as odd or
             | inconvenient - simply as 'the way things are'.
             | 
             | Definitely not in Poland
        
             | tomjen3 wrote:
             | >The local population don't view that as odd or
             | inconvenient - simply as 'the way things are'.
             | 
             | This used to be the way things were here in Denmark, and
             | yes we thought it was inconvenient and stupid so we got rid
             | of it (almost, there are a few days left in the year where
             | it is still the case, and they are inconvinient and
             | stupid).
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | I don't know Danish holidays but you don't think stores
               | should be mostly shut on major family holidays? In the
               | US, I fully support most stores with some exceptions like
               | maybe pharmacies being shut on at least Thanksgiving and
               | Christmas.
        
             | dantheman wrote:
             | The local population does view it as inconvenient and many
             | wish that things would be open.
             | 
             | Hell, normally at train stations there are some shops that
             | are open and they are packed and cleaned out.
        
         | PragmaticPulp wrote:
         | There's nothing stopping people from taking a day off of the
         | internet if they want.
         | 
         | Forcing everyone off the internet via government control is a
         | step too far.
        
           | blfr wrote:
           | There's nothing stopping people from taking a day off
           | individually but it's still a coordination problem. You might
           | want to spend time with other people. Much like setting a
           | market day in medieval towns.
        
             | foxpurple wrote:
             | Without the internet it would be rather difficult to
             | coordinate anything with others since you can't contact
             | them. I assume phone and sms is included in this blockout
             | since they run over the internet now and could be used to
             | build the internet from scratch if excluded.
        
           | Tempest1981 wrote:
           | Still an interesting thought experiment.
        
         | grecy wrote:
         | You could just ask your parents.
         | 
         | If you want to know about life before TV, just ask your
         | grandparents.
        
           | overcast wrote:
           | No, just removing the internet doesn't revert life back to
           | the time before it. They are asking what would our "today"
           | look like if we had an internet day of rest once a week.
           | Maybe people would have a regular get together day?
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | The problem is that a huge number of things that weren't
             | dependent on network connectivity now are. Now, having said
             | that, in many places in the US, stores were mostly closed
             | on Sunday so it sort of was a "day of rest" in many places.
        
         | DicIfTEx wrote:
         | The cynic in me expects we'd see vociferous lobbying from the
         | usual suspects for endless expansion of what traffic falls
         | under the excluded 'emergency' category.
        
         | lagadu wrote:
         | No electronic payments? We'd see most people unable to pay for
         | gas or food, huge economic impact from that alone.
         | 
         | I guess this would vary by country but plenty of us live in
         | countries where live money is seldomly used.
        
         | resoluteteeth wrote:
         | I guess people would stay inside, not be able to talk to
         | anyone, not be able to check public transit schedules, not be
         | able to use maps unless they had downloaded them in advance,
         | and probably not be able to use credit cards to buy food
         | (assuming supermarkets and restaurants would even bother to be
         | open).
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | You do realize that people were able to go out on Sunday and
           | do things before there was an Internet that they could
           | connect to and that stores were often closed. And that they
           | could make plans in advance if they were meeting someone or
           | going somewhere.
        
             | resoluteteeth wrote:
             | Yes but I don't know if people would be willing to deal
             | with those things now.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | I don't know. Normally, I often get together with friends
               | on a weekend day. We coordinate things beforehand via
               | email but we mostly don't really need Internet otherwise.
        
         | viraptor wrote:
         | > provided, emergency services stay reachable
         | 
         | Define "emergency services". Are online maps showing me the
         | route to the hospital an emergency service? What about online
         | translation service useful in emergency abroad? What about
         | online bank access for emergency funds? Etc...
         | 
         | We really got to the utility stage of the internet where half
         | the services can be an "emergency" service in some context.
         | 
         | But on the other extreme, you can have a look at more strict
         | Jewish communities where one day every week is a no-internet
         | day.
         | 
         | I'm not sure if you're looking for personal or society changes,
         | but I've been doing a completely non-religious tech-Sabbath day
         | occasionally. It's a nice, relaxing experience. Nothing mind-
         | altering though.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | That's a fair answer. If the question is whether people could
           | live without Netflix, email, Facebook, Wikipedia, etc. for
           | one day a month, at least my answer would be "of course,
           | without breaking a sweat."
           | 
           | But if you posit a general lack of network connectivity,
           | you're right that it means that most services that we take
           | for granted would be down including things like e.g. buying
           | gas.
        
             | 908B64B197 wrote:
             | > whether people could live without Netflix
             | 
             | People would be surprised the Netflix button stopped
             | working on their TV.
             | 
             | "No Netflix but I can still watch cable?"
        
             | jrochkind1 wrote:
             | On the other hand, if we had started years ago regularly
             | arbitrarily shut down the internet for a day, as apparently
             | Syria does, we probably wouldn't have come to rely on the
             | internet for so much basic infrastructure. I doubt buying
             | gas is down in Syria when they shut down the internet.
             | 
             | It's not realistic to think that could have happened in the
             | USA, but it's interesting to think about. As a software
             | engineer who knows how unreliable and vulnerable our
             | software infrastructure is, I don't love how much of
             | society is dependent upon it.
        
               | jrochkind1 wrote:
               | (and the other piece is, I doubt the US government has
               | the ability to easily "shut down the internet" for a day
               | -- at least I hope they don't, although they might, they
               | shouldn't, and if they do it shouldn't be easy or
               | expected. Cause they would definitely use that ability
               | for nefarious ends).
        
               | marcosdumay wrote:
               | > On the other hand, if we had started years ago
               | regularly arbitrarily shut down the internet for a day,
               | as apparently Syria does, we probably wouldn't have come
               | to rely on the internet for so much basic infrastructure.
               | 
               | The question then is, is that a good thing?
               | 
               | I'd bet on "no". Right, people on Syria get to know how
               | to buy gas on a no-internet day, but they also have to
               | maintain that knowledge and infrastructure every other
               | day of the year.
        
               | jrochkind1 wrote:
               | I think the internet probably isn't involved in their
               | gas-buying much on most days. Rather than buying gas
               | differently on no-internet days.
               | 
               | We bought gas fine before the internet, and I don't think
               | the internet has seriously improved our gas-buying
               | experience, and yet...
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | I assume the credit card readers communicate over the
               | Internet in some manner. The gas prices at the pumps are
               | set over _some_ sort of network though it may be local.
               | 
               | You might be surprised how much communication there was
               | between branch stores and HQ going back decades though
               | before probably some point in the 90s it may have been
               | over phone lines.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Since the more in-depth article hasn't been discussed on HN
       | before, we've switched the URL to that from
       | https://twitter.com/jgrahamc/status/1405487207377522696.
        
         | jgrahamc wrote:
         | Cheers!
        
       | pimterry wrote:
       | Even if you accept "it must be completely impossible for students
       | to access the internet during exam periods" as an important goal
       | (it seems very extreme to me, but whatever) I'm astonished that
       | cutting the entire country's internet off is the only way to
       | achieve that.
       | 
       | What about cutting off just mobile data + school wifi? Everybody
       | with wifi or a network connection elsewhere would be just fine.
       | Still extreme, but dramatically less disruptive.
       | 
       | Plausibly you could limit this further, to block data only on
       | phone masts near schools.
       | 
       | Still an ridiculous measure, but I'm really surprised that
       | they've taken the most extreme measure possible instead of trying
       | to limit the fallout at least a little bit. It's not like nobody
       | is using it -
       | https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/IT.NET.USER.ZS?location...
       | shows that by 2017 more than 1/3 of Syrians had internet access,
       | and rapidly increasing.
        
         | padastra wrote:
         | At some level of incompetence, you might ask whether the
         | underlying assumptions are wrong -- for example, perhaps
         | they're looking for excuses to reduce internet access more
         | generally.
        
           | jl6 wrote:
           | One could imagine a 365-day excuse calendar which provides a
           | cover story for any time they want to shut down the internet.
           | Today's excuse is exams.
        
             | FredPret wrote:
             | This whole story belongs under April 1st sadly
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | _old_dude_ wrote:
           | It's like a fire drill. The government wants to desensitize
           | people.
           | 
           | They want people be to used to the fact that cutting internet
           | is something mundane so the next time they do it because of a
           | protest, nobody will care.
        
             | slipframe wrote:
             | > _It 's like a fire drill. The government wants to
             | desensitize people._
             | 
             | I think this analogy is good, except for 'desensitize'
             | which should be 'normalize'. Fire drills particularly are
             | meant to normalize responding to a fire alarm going off (to
             | make sure people know how to get out of buildings fast),
             | but certainly aren't meant to desensitize people to fire
             | alarms.
             | 
             | Though in the case of internet shutdowns, desensitization
             | and normalization are basically the same thing.
        
         | toast0 wrote:
         | From that stat page, Syrians have about 9 fixed broadband
         | subscriptions per 100 people, and fixed telephone lines were
         | only a bit more, but mobile phone subscriptions were more than
         | one per person.
         | 
         | To a first approximation, cutting off mobile data is cutting
         | off the internet. The same is true in many other countries;
         | there's just not a lot of people with home internet
         | connections, and often those aren't part of government forced
         | internet shutdowns (sometimes on purpose to try to let
         | businesses still work, sometimes because it's easier to get the
         | handful of wireless carriers to do it than the sometimes many
         | wireline carriers, sometimes because the government forgot).
         | But anyway, if you cut off 90% of the people, it breaks the
         | utility for communicating with people within your country.
        
         | bloak wrote:
         | I agree that the shut-down seems over-broad, but, at the same
         | time, might it be too narrow? Couldn't people also use "non-
         | data" mobile communications, like SMS or even voice calls, for
         | cheating?
         | 
         | If they're not stopping voice calls and there's a working
         | landline within 100 metres or so, an enterprising cheat could
         | probably set up a private Wi-Fi access point connected to an
         | old-school modem doing dial-up either internationally or
         | locally to a shortwave radio shack.
        
           | elliekelly wrote:
           | People have been cheating on exams long before the internet
           | existed. The only way to guarantee no one cheats on an exam
           | is to never give the exam in the first place. I think exams
           | are the "good reason" the government has given the public to
           | justify shutting off internet access, I don't think it's the
           | _real_ reason.
        
           | lolc wrote:
           | The obvious answer is to shield the exam rooms!
        
             | jkhdigital wrote:
             | Still not enough: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.j
             | sp?arnumber=8820015
        
               | TeMPOraL wrote:
               | My proposed algorithm:
               | 
               | 1. Shield the exam room against anything you can think
               | of.
               | 
               | 2. Find the few cheaters that manage to overcome your
               | measures anyway. Give them STEM grants, recognition,
               | whatnot.
               | 
               | 3. Next exam round, find the people selling turn-key
               | cheating solution and give them entrepreneurship grants.
               | Flunk the people who bought the cheating solution.
               | 
               | 4. Upgrade your countermeasures, go to step 1.
        
         | alias_neo wrote:
         | Given the year+ we've just had, I'm more surprised to see
         | comments like this ignoring the possibility that perhaps
         | students aren't sat in schools or exam rooms?
         | 
         | If you had an entire country worth of students taking exams
         | from home, absolutely possible given the past year, and you
         | wanted, as a government to prevent them cheating by accessing
         | the internet, what, I wonder would the most obvious solution
         | be?
         | 
         | For what it's worth, I still believe it's an utterly ridiculous
         | measure, but how can we not be considering this possibility?
        
           | halfdan wrote:
           | Uhm. Without Internet they can't take tests from home unless
           | you mail it to them - at that point cheating becomes much
           | easier by just meeting up with your buddies and doing the
           | test together.
        
             | alias_neo wrote:
             | If the servers for the exams are hosted in the country, why
             | would they need "internet"?
             | 
             | The gov only needs to block connections leaving the
             | country, for example.
        
               | quenix wrote:
               | Students would still be able to cheat by collaborating
               | with students and tutors inside the country, then.
        
         | Johnwbh wrote:
         | This is the Syrian government we're talking about here. Recent
         | history may indicate that one shouldn't trust them to be
         | entirely truthful about their reasons for doing things
        
       | Off wrote:
       | This happens here in Algeria too, when students pass the
       | Baccalaureate exams, the Internet gets cut daily for a week from
       | 8am to 5pm. It's been like this for 5 years now and nobody seems
       | to care.
        
         | andix wrote:
         | How does economy deal with it? If there is no internet there is
         | no banking, no card payments. Most offices will be shut down.
         | How do emergency services operate? Companies can't order goods,
         | or receive orders. It must be even worse than complete lock
         | down because of COVID.
        
           | InitialLastName wrote:
           | Something tells me that Algeria probably hasn't moved its
           | entire social infrastructure online quite as aggressively as
           | the US. Presumably there is still some offline telephony
           | (POTS? Cellular service? SMS?) that functions to do almost
           | everything that you listed.
           | 
           | Hell, we had credit cards and chain banking long before we
           | had consumer access to the internet, and both of those
           | require communication with a centralized authority.
        
       | 627467 wrote:
       | People worry about government regulations to cryptocurrency
       | adoption... This seems much more of a threat: trivially easy
       | internet cutoff
        
       | Tempest1981 wrote:
       | Government or no, the online-exam business is the hot new space
       | that text-book companies are pivoting too.
       | 
       | Teachers can use their service to grade student homework, and
       | proctor (monitor) exams, complete with lockdown apps and eye-
       | tracking via laptop cameras.
       | 
       | Maybe these governments are effectively offering the same
       | service.
        
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