[HN Gopher] The home computer as a cultural object is physically...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The home computer as a cultural object is physically vanishing
       (2007)
        
       Author : cfcfcf
       Score  : 122 points
       Date   : 2021-06-14 07:00 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (contemporary-home-computing.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (contemporary-home-computing.org)
        
       | RocketOne wrote:
       | I just entered the time space continuum and emerged in Geocities.
        
         | coldacid wrote:
         | Between this and another post containing hundreds of 88x31
         | buttons, tell me about it!
        
       | MarcScott wrote:
       | I've just bought my first desktop in about 20 years. The main
       | reason, the bloody clutter.
       | 
       | I have two (work issued) laptops, one that runs Windows and one
       | for NixOS, both with SSDs that are too small for me to dual boot
       | effectively. Then there are my two external monitors, my
       | mechanical keyboard and mouse. I need a keyboard and mouse switch
       | as there are an inadequate number of USB ports on the laptops and
       | I want to share peripherals, USB-C hubs on the laptops to get
       | video out to more than one monitor and also provide power
       | simultaneously and read/write SD cards.
       | 
       | My desk is an absolute cluttered mess.
       | 
       | Minimalist laptops/tablets just end up producing more clutter for
       | me, are hard if not impossible to upgrade, and tend to suffer
       | from planned obsolescence. Now I don't need to travel to work
       | every day, I'm happy to have a desktop at home and then use a co-
       | working space with a Raspberry Pi when I do need to go into the
       | office.
        
         | foobarian wrote:
         | The biggest desk/workstation upgrade I have had in years was
         | putting my monitor onto a wall-mounted arm. The desk space
         | under the monitor magically opened up into a vast empty plain
         | that I could then fill up with... more cables. But at least I
         | can do more now :-)
        
       | duxup wrote:
       | I remember being able to borrow the big old Apple II from school
       | (my mom was a teacher so in the summer I could borrow them for a
       | time... otherwise they just sat dormant in school).
       | 
       | It sat on the kitchen counter like an appliance / shrine.
        
       | sunstone wrote:
       | My home computer(NUC/LinuxMint) has melded with my dumb TV.
       | Working very nicely so far.
        
       | dlevine wrote:
       | I recently rebuilt my gaming PC with a Ryzen 5000-series.
       | Surprisingly, it has become my main work PC, and I haven't used
       | it much for gaming. It's faster than my i9 Macbook pro, and
       | another benefit is that I can only work when I'm sitting at my
       | desk. With a laptop, I can do work pretty much anywhere. Which is
       | a double-edged sword.
        
       | masswerk wrote:
       | Regarding the physical presence of a small computer, something I
       | actually miss is people hitting the monitor, when in despair,
       | rather then the true culprit (as in "the box"). - There's
       | actually some kind of magic in this misdirection.
       | 
       | With flat screens, this isn't a thing anymore. (Also, the kind of
       | despair that would urge someone to attack the machine, has become
       | increasingly more abstract, as has the underlying architecture
       | causing the despair. What would you do? Take a plane to hit "the
       | cloud"?)
        
         | baud147258 wrote:
         | I mostly hit the keyboard. And curse (loudly at home, under my
         | breath in the office)
        
       | amerine wrote:
       | I'm 36 right now and have always made sure to have a desktop
       | computer with accounts for each family member and it's used all
       | the time.
       | 
       | I agree it's a feature that's disappearing, but if anything it's
       | because people are getting more personal computers, like a laptop
       | or modern smart phone, than ever before.
        
         | swiley wrote:
         | Smartphones are not personal computers. They should be but they
         | definitely are not.
        
         | silicon2401 wrote:
         | IMO this is an underrated setup. Laptops are nice, but having
         | an 'official', stationary, desktop computer builds up
         | associations and mindsets that help with whatever it is you do
         | on it. I didn't have a desktop until I was 26 and it was like
         | going from studying in random chairs and tables to having a
         | proper desk.
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | I have about a 6 year old iMac and MacBook Pro. I'm guessing,
         | depending on specs, when I upgrade, it will be to just (the
         | rumored) 14" Apple Silicon MacBook Pro.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | LeoPanthera wrote:
       | I have more "home computers" now than ever before. It all started
       | when I figured out you can network boot the Raspberry Pi. Now I
       | have one connected to a cheap monitor in nearly every room in the
       | house. Because you can switch what OS they boot into just by
       | renaming a symlink on the server, sometimes they play music,
       | sometimes they show movies, sometimes they show live TV,
       | sometimes they browse the web.
       | 
       | I'm probably a little eccentric but I really enjoy this a lot
       | more than simply carrying a laptop around the house.
        
         | tryauuum wrote:
         | That's pretty cool. I think if the monitors are thin enough and
         | wall-mounted, they ought to give a house a sci-fi look
        
       | dkdk8283 wrote:
       | I detest mobile: I find the interface very difficult to use. I
       | would give up mobile way before giving up my desktop. I realize,
       | though, that I'm in the minority.
        
       | rossdavidh wrote:
       | My 15-year old daughter just recently got her first desktop. Why?
       | Well, because instead of just consuming (which she does on her
       | phone) or doing homework (chromebook), she wanted to do video
       | editing, and also drawing using a Wacom tablet. She found that
       | the non-desktop options were just not that great.
       | 
       | Had it been a passing fancy, no doubt she would have done without
       | the desktop, but it wasn't, so she got a tricked out desktop
       | (intended for gamers, I think) and now has the most powerful
       | computer in the house. She still uses her phone and (when in
       | school) her Chromebook, but when she's in creator (not consumer)
       | mode, she uses her desktop.
        
         | samatman wrote:
         | A tangent, but I've found the iPad Pro to be fabulous for video
         | editing. I haven't hooked it up to a keyboard/mouse combo, or
         | plugged it into a monitor, but it's quite capable of both of
         | those things.
         | 
         | I can tell you it's simply superior to a Wacom tablet for
         | drawing, there I have a direct comparison. A PC/desktop will
         | certainly exceed an iPad at some level: but now that the Pro
         | model has an M1, it's unclear at what level that is. I
         | certainly don't edit at a level where the difference between
         | Logic and LumaFusion becomes apparent, and I expect that Apple
         | releasing Logic for the iPad is a matter of when, not if.
         | 
         | The iPad is also as expensive as a good laptop, so in more than
         | one sense those two categories are converging.
         | 
         | I'm sure your daughter made the right decision for her, I'm
         | just taking the opportunity to build on your comment with a bit
         | more evidence that the home computer is a vanishing breed.
        
           | bluescrn wrote:
           | > A tangent, but I've found the iPad Pro to be fabulous for
           | video editing
           | 
           | Doesn't the sandboxing and limited access to the file system
           | get in the way?
           | 
           | Can you export video to non-Apple formats, collaborate with
           | other people via a version control system, easily import
           | footage from non-Apple devices, and so on?
           | 
           | Can you even cleanly separate your video editing project from
           | your personal holiday photos/videos? (Does iPadOS expose a
           | directory structure to the end user yet?)
        
             | machello13 wrote:
             | Have you ever used an iPad? I get the feeling you don't
             | really know how it actually works.
        
               | bluescrn wrote:
               | Haven't used one since the iOS/iPadOS split, so honestly
               | don't know how much more flexible they've become.
               | 
               | More familiar with iOS on iPhones though, but can't see
               | how I'd do 'serious creative work' - which usually ends
               | up involving large numbers of files that need keeping
               | organised - on an OS that's traditionally tried so hard
               | to hide the underlying file system from the end user.
               | 
               | And I've never tried connecting a camera or video capture
               | device directly to an iOS device, so not sure what is or
               | isn't possible in that area.
        
               | ipaddr wrote:
               | Unless you were part of the team designing and building
               | them I'm not sure you know how an ipad works. Pop Quiz:
               | How does an ipad work?
        
               | digitalsushi wrote:
               | It's unfair to change the verb from use to build.
        
             | zepto wrote:
             | > Doesn't the sandboxing and limited access to the file
             | system get in the way?
             | 
             | No.
             | 
             | > Can you export video to non-Apple formats, collaborate
             | with other people via a version control system, easily
             | import footage from non-Apple devices, and so on?
             | 
             | Yes.
        
             | handrous wrote:
             | > Doesn't the sandboxing and limited access to the file
             | system get in the way?
             | 
             | Why would it get in the way? Any video editing software on
             | it's going to be designed with that in mind, and will share
             | with other video-related software just fine. Lots of
             | desktop video editing software (Premiere, to pick one)
             | start with "OK, step 1, import all the clips/videos for
             | this project into this program" so even in the worst case
             | it's gonna look a lot like the same workflow as video-
             | editors are used to, and those workflows exist and became
             | the norm _on desktop_ before iPads even existed.
             | 
             | > Can you export video to non-Apple formats
             | 
             | Of course. Why wouldn't you be able to?
             | 
             | > collaborate with other people via a version control
             | system
             | 
             | Never seen it for video editing, including when I worked at
             | a video production company, though that was years go so
             | maybe version control's normal even for amateurs and small
             | shops now? If it's around and popular I'd be surprised if
             | there's not "an app for that" or it's not built-in to some
             | of the higher end editing software on iPad. If things still
             | operate like they used to then you're talking a NAS shared
             | over SMB for largish projects, or Dropbox for smaller ones,
             | for collaboration, probably, and both those are fine with
             | iPads.
             | 
             | > easily import footage from non-Apple devices
             | 
             | Sure, why not?
        
               | Nullabillity wrote:
               | > Why would it get in the way?
               | 
               | How do plugins work on iOS?
        
               | handrous wrote:
               | Not sure that they do. They _could_ , but I don't know of
               | any significant video editing plugin ecosystems on iOS.
               | Stuff's too rich for my blood--$200 to make overlay text
               | look a certain way? $400 for a noise-reduction algo? Not
               | for me and my casual stuff. Again, if you want _actual_
               | pro software, you 're looking at one of a couple desktop
               | application vendors, that's true. If you're looking for
               | pro-tier software for home use, and learning that pro-
               | tier software is your main goal and/or you actually need
               | what it can provide, then you're probably talking Adobe
               | Premiere, specifically, and yeah, that's desktop only
               | (and about $250/yr). If you just want to learn the
               | process and techniques of non-linear video editing and
               | put together (potentially quite good) edited videos or
               | films, the iPad's capable enough (with the benefit that,
               | in the original use case posted here, it's also a damn
               | good drawing tablet and you can use it to _shoot_ your
               | videos, too, again, if you don 't have actual pro-level
               | needs), but I wouldn't argue it replaces a desktop with
               | Premiere, for a bunch of reasons including that everyone
               | assumes you've got Premiere (and often Aftereffects, too)
               | available, when it comes to plugins.
        
               | armadsen wrote:
               | > collaborate with other people via a version control
               | system
               | 
               | LumaFusion has pretty nice integration with Frame.io,
               | which is as close to something like GitHub for video as
               | I'm aware of.
               | 
               | (Disclaimer: My day job is as an engineer working on
               | LumaFusion.)
        
           | sithadmin wrote:
           | As someone with formal training and experience in video
           | production with Final Cut Pro and Premiere...I find editing
           | on iPad to be an utterly infuriating experience.
           | 
           | I gave it a sincere try, but the UX is so utterly subpar that
           | it's simply not worth the time or effort anymore. The file
           | management on iOS is atrocious: support by various editing
           | apps is questionable at best, and even if it wasn't, it's
           | incredibly slow. Waiting while importing high-res videos off
           | SD media to the file system, then turning around to wait an
           | equally long time for the media to get imported into your
           | editor is extremely irritating. There's also not a lot of
           | serious competition in terms of quality editing apps. It
           | seems like everything other than Luma Fusion is gimped to the
           | point of near-uselessness for anything but the most basic of
           | cut-and-crop type workflows.
           | 
           | iPad did have a slight edge in terms of render performance
           | and efficiency versus ultraportable notebooks like the
           | MacBook Air for a brief period between the A12x-based Pro
           | release in 2018 and the release of the M1 MacBook Air in
           | 2020, but now that the M1 Air is on the table, it's well
           | worth the few extra ounces to go with a M1 MBA for mobile
           | video editing.
        
             | samatman wrote:
             | Editing video on the iPad is, it pains me to say,
             | "disruptive".
             | 
             | I believe you when you say it's infuriating to someone with
             | formal training, used to the professional tools. I wouldn't
             | know, this is how I've taught myself to edit video.
             | 
             | It's inferior and the software is cheaper. The hardware
             | isn't necessarily, but it sure is if you own an iPad and
             | don't have a dedicated machine for editing video.
             | 
             | And the experience is steadily improving, and at some point
             | it might well "worse is better" the specialized hardware
             | and expensive software which is the industry standard.
             | 
             | Or it might not. Time alone will tell.
             | 
             | It's worth pointing out that the current iPad Pro also has
             | an M1, so the choice between an MBA and an iPad Pro is much
             | less clear along that dimension.
        
               | sithadmin wrote:
               | I generally agree with you and recognize that I'm coming
               | at this from a somewhat niche perspective.
               | 
               | I think the thing that frustrates me the most is that
               | Apple has repeatedly failed to fix the performance and
               | usability issues related to file management that have
               | plagued iOS/iPad OS since the feature was introduced.
               | Fixing the poor performance + increasing versatility of
               | the file manager (or allowing 3rd party file managers
               | like Android) would massively improve the editing
               | workflow on iPads, and for me, would probably push it
               | into the 'good enough' tier of performance that might
               | lead me to leave my MacBook at home when editing video on
               | the road.
        
               | megameter wrote:
               | There's definitely some latent potential for video
               | editing to be redefined along broader task-and-genre
               | lines. That is, in essence, the difference between
               | "consumer" and "pro", because a pro is burdened by having
               | to reshape the medium in utmost detail to fit a structure
               | that they planned, while a consumer expects a readymade
               | media which simply "filters" their efforts through a
               | predefined strategy.
               | 
               | Since video editing is no longer governed by literal
               | machinery, it can deprofessionalize into a set of smaller
               | consumer languages, though if you imagine all the forms
               | of editing that exist, it's unlikely that we'll have
               | total coverage anytime soon.
        
           | smoldesu wrote:
           | The iPad Pro is a device that definitely _can_ edit video,
           | but I really only use it as a last resort. For me it has
           | never been a question of power, but a question of comfort:
           | the M1 could be the fastest CPU in the world, but what do I
           | care when I can 't run 32 bit software on it! And then
           | there's the ergonomics... unless you're using a
           | mouse/keyboard with the iPad, it's an insufferable
           | experience: even then, it's not a given that your NLE of
           | choice will even support keyboard shortcuts, and then we're
           | back around to square one again...
        
             | simonh wrote:
             | What's wrong with 64 bit software?
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | Arguably, a lot of the same things that are wrong with 32
               | bit software. If we're being pedantic, both of them
               | should still be supported: but they aren't.
        
           | ecshafer wrote:
           | This is honestly an absurd proposition. A 13 inch screen Ipad
           | pro with a keyboard and 2TB of memory is $2500. Video editing
           | is something you want power, and a lot of screen real estate,
           | and a good form factor. Even with the GPU shortage, you can
           | buy an extremely powerful, capable, video editing desktop
           | with two large 27" monitors for $1k. Even before you consider
           | limitations in sandboxing, multi-application usage, and
           | freedom, the Apple Tax for this makes a non-starter. If you
           | go with the lowest end specs, that is still $800, which you
           | can buy a significantly more capable desktop for video
           | editing at that point, then you will be editing video on an
           | 11" screen, with no hotkeys or keyboard, and only 128 GB of
           | storage (good luck).
        
             | handrous wrote:
             | It depends on what you're doing and what your budget is.
             | Shoot & edit on one device, _plus_ an excellent drawing
             | experience, is pretty compelling when you 're talking about
             | a device for a kid to learn on, and the main things it'll
             | be used for are video & drawing. You don't need 2TB of
             | built-in storage for that, either.
             | 
             | Only way I can see that _not_ being the option to beat, is
             | if your goal is to learn the UI (not the concepts or
             | techniques) for pro-tier desktop editing software. Then,
             | yes, of course you have to have a desktop. I think  "non-
             | starter" is overstating the case against the iPad, for the
             | particular tasks and user-profile stated.
             | 
             | > video editing desktop with two large 27" monitors for $1k
             | 
             | I _need_ to know where you 're buying monitors.
        
               | Talanes wrote:
               | If I'm spending that kind of money on a teenager, not
               | putting it all into one easily lose-able device is a
               | value-add of it's own.
        
             | samatman wrote:
             | There's nothing absurd about it, you're just looking for
             | something to get mad about.
             | 
             | Your reference to the so-called Apple Tax makes that
             | perfectly clear.
             | 
             | What I actually said is that I, personally, find it
             | fabulous for video editing. I made it clear that I'm an
             | amateur who doesn't make heavy use of any advanced
             | features, and furthermore said that I'm sure that the
             | daughter made the right choice _for her_.
             | 
             | You blew into my mentions getting mad about price tags,
             | which I never mentioned. Your assertion that someone can
             | get better performance than the M1 for $1K _including two
             | large monitors_ (high DPI?) is something I 'd need to see
             | backed up, because quite frankly I don't believe you.
             | 
             | The one thing I'm quite confident of is that the iPad is
             | superior for drawing to a PC and Wacom tablet, because I've
             | used both. I'm quite confident from your pugnacious and
             | unpleasant reply that you haven't used an iPad for either
             | video editing or drawing.
        
             | machello13 wrote:
             | > A 13 inch screen Ipad pro with a keyboard and 2TB of
             | memory is $2500.
             | 
             | The 2TB memory is accounting for like half the cost there.
             | You can get a model with less built-in memory and just use
             | an external drive and the price drops down to like $1400.
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | Or Apple could stop ripping off their customers and we
               | could just be comfortable paying them a reasonable amount
               | of money for a reasonable amount of storage.
               | 
               | Is that too much to ask?
        
               | jonny_eh wrote:
               | Onboard storage is just more expensive.
        
               | jessaustin wrote:
               | Lots of tasks don't benefit from ridiculous amounts of
               | memory, but editing video does.
        
               | simonh wrote:
               | Thats actually storage, not RAM.
        
               | samatman wrote:
               | I'm sure this is true.
               | 
               | I haven't found 256GB to be much of a limit in editing
               | video, and I do shoot 4K. But I've only really worked
               | with a couple hours of footage at a time, and I'm
               | comfortable with keeping my "b roll" on my NAS. 512GB
               | would probably be a better buy.
        
           | eludwig wrote:
           | >> I can tell you it's simply superior to a Wacom tablet for
           | drawing
           | 
           | IMO, yes & no. For certain types of work, an iPad Pro is
           | amazing. For direct sketching, drawing, for sure. It's easily
           | my favorite drawing table for these.
           | 
           | For certain other types of work, for example: colorists work
           | of filling large areas precisely within black lines (like
           | comicbook coloring) or maneuvering around a huge document, a
           | commercial grade Intuos tablet (or the like) is a better
           | match.
           | 
           | One of the biggest reasons is that the Intuos has physical,
           | raised "quick action" buttons which can be programmed to
           | switch between tools, so you can zoom, rotate, brush, erase
           | without ever looking at a keyboard or even looking away from
           | the screen. This is crucial in certain workflows. Edit: also,
           | the fact that your hand is never in the way on an Intuos is
           | really key.
           | 
           | Admittedly, this is a very specific use case, but I figured
           | I'd mention it for completeness sake.
        
           | pram wrote:
           | An iPad Pro is great, but not superior to the Cintiq Pros
           | imo. Especially the 24 inch and above. Once you've had the
           | extra space you wouldn't be willing to give it up for a 13
           | inch screen. I keep hoping for an iMac that you can use the
           | Apple Pencil on for that reason ;P
        
         | vlunkr wrote:
         | > tricked out desktop (intended for gamers, I think)
         | 
         | Generally this is just a marketing/SEO thing. A huge percentage
         | of desktop hardware and accessories get the word "Gaming"
         | slapped on the front even though they have nothing to do with
         | gaming. Keyboards, mice, mousepads, headsets, speakers,
         | monitors, cables, etc.
        
           | foobarian wrote:
           | Unfortunately these days it seems to be the only way to get a
           | Nvidia 30x0 GPU. (By getting a pre-built computer).
        
             | amatecha wrote:
             | Indeed, I know a few people who have been holding out for
             | months and months to buy a GPU on its own.. and they have
             | settled for just purchasing a whole prebuilt system because
             | they're sick of waiting. Pretty frustrating all around :(
        
         | js2 wrote:
         | > My 15-year old daughter just recently got her first desktop.
         | Why? Well, because instead of just consuming (which she does on
         | her phone) or doing homework (chromebook), she wanted to do
         | video editing, and also drawing using a Wacom tablet. She found
         | that the non-desktop options were just not that great.
         | 
         | My about-to-be-a-college-junior daughter has been creating for
         | years on an iPad, and she's pretty good at it. She's
         | transferring to VCU this fall for their graphic arts program
         | and we just set her up with a new MBP and a Wacom Intuos. She
         | started to practice on it but finds the experience of the
         | external tablet and viewing an image on screen much less
         | appealing than drawing directly on her iPad.
         | 
         | For certain tasks, the iPad is superior input device.
         | 
         | Maybe someday the iPad won't be hobbled by iOS and it will be
         | fully suitable for desktop tasks too.
         | 
         | (Currently typing this on an iPad air with smart keyboard.)
        
       | markhahn wrote:
       | quite an accomplishment of html cruelty.
        
       | jms703 wrote:
       | Laptops and mobile devices are an ergonomic nightmare. 13" laptop
       | is great when working on a plane.
        
       | asciimov wrote:
       | A friends family doesn't have a single
       | desktop/laptop/tablet/printer in their house. They all have
       | decently highend cell phones. If the children need to type up a
       | book report one of the adults brings home their work laptop.
       | 
       | Meanwhile, I've moved back to desktops. If I ever need a laptop
       | again it will be the lightest weight one I can get, and will use
       | it to remote access my main machine.
        
       | asperous wrote:
       | For the average person this might be kind true, however I can
       | think of at least three places where desktop computers are very
       | much cultural and symbolic:
       | 
       | * "Gamers" or other enthusiasts with their battlestations [1]
       | 
       | * Finace workstations with many monitors and Bloomberg terminals
       | [2]
       | 
       | * Potentially musician workstations as well [3]
       | 
       | Any other niche ideas?
       | 
       | [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/battlestations/ [2]
       | https://images.app.goo.gl/KfaJMqBp8JVkW6Yn8 [3]
       | https://images.app.goo.gl/sVjkdWvKNrMN2xdD8
        
         | mkaic wrote:
         | I'm a filmmaker and visual effects artist who works with ray
         | tracing rendering a lot, I'd say we're definitely a significant
         | niche! Recently bought myself a new rig so I could render
         | things 10x faster, totally worth it.
        
         | ohazi wrote:
         | Engineers who do mechanical CAD work using a specialized input
         | device like a SpaceMouse [1] or similar.
         | 
         | [1] https://3dconnexion.com/uk/spacemouse/
        
           | mywittyname wrote:
           | SpaceMouse works just fine on laptops, it's just kind of
           | pointless when your software is pushing 15fps because of the
           | shitty graphics card. You can't get Quattro cards on laptops,
           | as far as I know. So anyone using CAD software regularly is
           | stuck using desktops.
        
             | vel0city wrote:
             | You can get the latest A5000 GPU's on the pro-grade
             | workstation laptops.
             | 
             | You could Quadro cards on laptops for a long time. They're
             | just the super thick stupid expensive models usually.
        
             | robotnikman wrote:
             | I think Lenovo offers Quattro cards on laptops, but IIRC
             | they much more expensive than a desktop workstation
        
         | drunner wrote:
         | Not really a workstation, but seems like folks can take their
         | homelabs pretty seriously too.
        
         | asdff wrote:
         | These aren't cultural or symbolic uses, though. People who do
         | these things need powerful chips and a cooling solution that
         | allows them not to throttle under load. Most modern laptops are
         | ultrabooks now with poorly designed cooling solutions (due to
         | the thinness of the devices) that throttle under load and are
         | unsuitable for these uses. Even M1 Macbooks have issues using
         | multiple monitors.
        
         | ozim wrote:
         | Obviously software developers.
         | 
         | If I would not be a software dev I would ditch laptop/computer
         | and go with mobile phone alone. For day to day
         | reading/banking/mailing all I need is there.
         | 
         | I think I could go full mobile phone if I would have cloud
         | server + cloud IDE because I can connect big screen to the
         | phone with mouse and keyboard anyway. Only dev tools are not
         | really accessible on Android/IOS.
         | 
         | Having everything I need to work on single device that allows
         | me to jump on the plane and go anywhere, that is great idea.
         | Well maybe I would need to carry a keyboard and mouse but I
         | hope that screens will be available in every hotel room/office
         | space with option to connect with a phone.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | If it is central to home computing, I'd say audio/music
         | workstations are a bit outside of that. However, if you allow
         | that, then a video workstation would also follow.
        
           | danilocesar wrote:
           | Part of a musician "workstation" is already an ipad (or
           | more). It's question of time, IMHO.
        
             | yurishimo wrote:
             | Eh, it depends on what kind of work you're doing within the
             | music industry.
             | 
             | Solo studio tracking artist? Yeah, an iPad is probably good
             | enough for you to practice with and do some rough scratch
             | recordings for demo purposes.
             | 
             | If you're running a studio, you need the I/O to handle at
             | least a few physical devices with dedicated PCIe lanes, and
             | a high resolution input device like a mouse or trackpad to
             | make precise edits in a DAW. Plus a keyboard. Audio/video
             | editors love their keyboard shortcuts just as much as
             | developers!
             | 
             | While it may be possible to connect any one of those
             | devices to an iPad, connecting all of them and making it
             | easy to disconnect the iPad, makes it impractical in
             | reality. The iPad in it's current format is not a great
             | device for professional audio recording and mixing, and if
             | you changed the format to better fit that workflow, you've
             | now described a Mac Mini and you should buy one of those
             | instead.
        
             | handrous wrote:
             | As a musician's tool, it's hard to beat a computer that
             | fits neatly on a music stand and lasts all day on battery.
        
         | egypturnash wrote:
         | All of those musician's workstations have the actual _computer_
         | hidden somewhere out of sight. There 's a monitor or two, a
         | computer keyboard lying around(all wireless, it looks like?),
         | but all those desks are dominated by musical keyboards, mixer
         | boards, and speakers. Sometimes there's a laptop sitting on it.
         | All the cables are hidden, out of the way.
         | 
         | Take away the monitors and the computer keyboard, substitute a
         | couple of multi-track reel-to-reel tape decks, and it looks
         | exactly like what I'd see when I'd visit my dad at his audio
         | engineer job in the 1970s.
         | 
         | The computer itself is just an appliance, stick it under the
         | desk next to the mini-fridge. Maximize the available surface
         | used for _getting the work done_ ; as long as the computer's
         | got enough airflow to not overheat when you push it hard, who
         | cares where it is?
         | 
         | Well, gamers care I guess, they all have those crazy light-up
         | cases with clear sides to show off how much they spent on their
         | custom-built rig. The computer's become an object of desire
         | there.
        
           | alliao wrote:
           | I'm a gamer and my rig is a mini itx tucked away. I like it
           | quiet and performant. Yes the market slaps RGB lighting on
           | anything and everything gamer but it's up to gamers to buy
           | them.
        
             | vlunkr wrote:
             | Although sometimes it's a chore to find something without
             | the RGB.
        
             | 411111111111111 wrote:
             | I like having my case light up with the temperature of the
             | components.
             | 
             | I've never succeeded making it anything but a deep green
             | and it gives me a nice and fuzzy feeling, knowing that
             | everything is at an optimal temperature while the fans
             | lazily spin behind the tempered glass.
        
               | capeterson wrote:
               | Ha! That's such a fantastic idea. I always keep my lights
               | either off, or on white because I kind of dislike RGB
               | lighting. I might have to look into this, did you use any
               | specific software for this?
        
             | nsxwolf wrote:
             | I find the lights to be fun. I'm playing a game after all
             | :)
        
             | Graffur wrote:
             | I am interested in something like this out of the loop with
             | pc building. Do you have any more info about your rig
             | online?
        
         | my_usernam3 wrote:
         | > Finance workstations with many monitors and Bloomberg
         | terminals
         | 
         | The only person I know who has a bloomberg terminal uses a
         | remote machine and just a laptop at home and he works from
         | home. However he is not involved in day trading directly so
         | maybe those would need desktop computers just for the
         | graphics.... although maybe even that can be done via external
         | graphics card since the processing power I think is already
         | there on powerful laptops.... now I'm curious.
        
       | beckingz wrote:
       | This website is a blast from old web design. Nice!
        
         | drivingmenuts wrote:
         | Back then, it was, if not the height of design, at least within
         | the horizon.
         | 
         | Now, it just looks deranged and unreadable.
        
           | chrisco255 wrote:
           | It's a shame Twitter Bootstrap wasn't around in 2007.
        
           | ergot_vacation wrote:
           | Design is both a linear progression and an infinitely looping
           | circle/pendulum. Things were really free and organic at
           | first. People got frustrated with this, and rising tech
           | companies gave them "clean, modern" design instead. It was
           | embraced because it was easier on the eyes, and faster to use
           | in general. But now I think there's a growing resentment
           | toward the "clean, modern" look, because it's simplified
           | every drop of soul and humanity out of digital interfaces and
           | expression. The pendulum will probably start to swing in the
           | other direction soon.
        
           | jephson wrote:
           | This particular page design can be read as an intentional
           | response to Web2.0, something the authors of this article
           | considered to be part of a broader campaign to remove
           | "amateur" production from the web. They published a book,
           | Digital Folklore, expanding on this idea a few years later:
           | https://digitalfolklore.org/
        
         | spiritplumber wrote:
         | It just needs blink tags
        
           | munk-a wrote:
           | ... or Dancing Ants.
        
         | ergot_vacation wrote:
         | I'm of mixed feelings on it. On the one hand, it sure is hard
         | to read. On the other hand, in small doses I kind of enjoy it
         | after the super sanitized corporate nothingness most of the web
         | has become now. One glance at this page and there is zero doubt
         | in my mind that it represents the genuine expression of an
         | actual human without layers and layers of forced censorship and
         | editing by some "platform." The web was never supposed to have
         | "platforms" in the first place: Youtube/Facebook/Twitter etc
         | are all fundamentally rent-seeking parasites in a way most
         | people don't even appreciate today.
         | 
         | The web was supposed to just be a place anyone could put up a
         | document with some links to other documents. Cheap, simple,
         | easy, fast. Then some services cropped up to help make some of
         | the frustrating parts easier and quicker, and eventually the
         | "services" ended up eating the web alive.
        
           | Threeve303 wrote:
           | The correlation between creation and consumption based on the
           | device form factor is something to consider. A desktop
           | computer often provided a good balance between the two.
           | 
           | Now with the corporate web, perhaps it's no accident
           | consumption devices have become so widespread.
        
           | yupper32 wrote:
           | > Cheap, simple, easy, fast
           | 
           | I mean, this page is not simple, easy, or fast to develop.
           | Instead of just writing a simple article, the author had to
           | source/create at least 2 dozen images with no value only to
           | lay them out on the page in the middle of paragraphs, making
           | the article as hard to read as they could muster.
           | 
           | Enjoy the nostalgia and break from modern clean websites, but
           | anything else justifying the look of this page is just crazy.
           | And connecting it to modern services and the downfall of the
           | internet or whatever just sounds like you're trying to be
           | edgy.
           | 
           | We are in a massively better place now than a decade or two
           | ago as far as the internet being accessible to everyone, both
           | on the publisher and consumer side, despite the hate for big
           | corps.
        
         | annoyingnoob wrote:
         | This style should be called Ransom Note.
        
       | Hamuko wrote:
       | Meanwhile Apple is trying to revive the iconic iMac G3 with the
       | new colourful iMacs.
        
       | runawaybottle wrote:
       | Laptops and tabletops are ubiquitous. The desktop computer is
       | purely in the realm of the pc gaming enthusiast at this point.
        
       | beering wrote:
       | I think the title could use a "(2007)" notice because the same
       | title analyzed today would be quite different, I imagine.
        
         | stu2b50 wrote:
         | I can only imagine how the OP would react to a reality where
         | I'd estimate the _majority_ of people use a thin candybar
         | touchscreen brick with maybe 3 buttons as their primary
         | computing device outside of work.
        
         | kergonath wrote:
         | 2007, really? From the looks, I'd have guessed 1995. Written by
         | a time traveler who knew about the iMac G5.
        
         | amerine wrote:
         | Oh wow. Sigh. I didn't even look at the date.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | echelon wrote:
       | The home computer has been replaced with the iPhone.
       | 
       | What boggles my mind is that the industry accepts Apple's
       | restrictions on what kind of computing can happen, how their
       | software can be distributed, and how their gross/margins are
       | taxed.
       | 
       | These devices have done a perverse thing to our field.
       | 
       | Consumers love them, but fuck are they awful for freedom,
       | business, and small time success.
       | 
       | We used to build platforms in the open that we all benefited from
       | (ie. the Web). Even Microsoft Windows was and is more open than
       | these goddamn monopoly devices.
       | 
       | The DOJ needs to rip Apple's control of the iPhone away. It's not
       | their device anymore. It's the industry.
       | 
       | Computing belongs to the people. It'd make for a healthier
       | playing field, and Apple would still be making bank.
        
         | ergot_vacation wrote:
         | Turns out the PC was an accident of history. Not an endpoint
         | like some of us saw it, but simply an unfortunate stepping
         | stone to the ultimate goal of making a really smart toaster.
         | The end goal was never really to empower people, it was just to
         | create a new market for rent-seeking via lock-in on a shiny new
         | black box. No repairs allowed. No modding allowed. And you can
         | go fuck yourself if you want the source code for anything.
         | "Micro-computing," as it used to be called, was never intended
         | as way for ordinary people to gain freedom and agency. It was
         | just supposed to be another tool for the rich and powerful to
         | extract wealth from everyone else. And now, thanks to always-
         | online requirements, inescapable updates and aggressive planned
         | obsolescence, that dream is finally a reality. Welcome back to
         | the farm serf. You never really left.
        
           | sigstoat wrote:
           | > Turns out the PC was an accident of history
           | 
           | > The end goal was never really to empower people
           | 
           | whose end goal would that have even been?
           | 
           | you're talking like history possesses some sort of inherent
           | narrative, instead of just being a bunch of people doing
           | shit.
        
           | echelon wrote:
           | You could have a million downvotes, but you're eternally
           | correct. Thank you.
        
         | threatofrain wrote:
         | Personally I'm in love with the fact that Apple found a
         | business model selling privacy and safety, while I'm also torn
         | on the idea that Apple has been using their weight to bludgeon
         | the competition into giving up a massive share of revenue.
         | 
         | At the same time, the weighing of leverage is precisely how the
         | market has and still works to this day. Thus if you send me out
         | there to negotiate with Popeye's (which _really_ wants you to
         | create an account), or Walmart, Facebook, or even a small
         | company making todo apps, I will simply not win, and neither
         | will my family members. I love that cross-app tracking is now
         | opt-in, because that 's not something I'd ever imagine
         | negotiating with any company, ever. I love the fact that all
         | subscription-based services purchased through the iOS platform
         | can be managed in a centralized place.
         | 
         | And I will of course resent in my tiny, futile, pathetic way,
         | those voices which say "Well, you as a free agent made these
         | concessions in the marketplace. Didn't you get what you
         | deserve?"
         | 
         | Why can't there be a consumer choice to throw your weight
         | behind a mega-giant who intercedes forcefully on your behalf,
         | in a marketplace that is all about the weighing of leverage?
        
         | shadowgovt wrote:
         | There are dozens of hardware platforms running hundreds (if not
         | thousands) of software stacks that a user can play with that
         | aren't Apple's ecosystem. Everything from a Raspberry Pi to a
         | Lenovo ThinkPad. It's a color-wheel of hardware and software
         | out there.
        
           | echelon wrote:
           | All 300 million American consumers doing all of their
           | business, emails, dating, instagram, phone calls,
           | photography, etc. on Raspberry Pi?
           | 
           | No. The solution is to regulate iPhone and make it a common
           | carrier / open platform. It won, and now Apple has to bear
           | the consequences. If their device was in niche usage, you
           | might have a case.
        
             | shadowgovt wrote:
             | What is stopping 300 million American consumers from doing
             | their business, emails, dating, instagram, phone calls,
             | photography, etc. on Raspberry Pi?
             | 
             | ... and if it's "They don't want to; Apple's user
             | experience is better for their use case," why should the
             | government intercede to take that away from them?
        
               | echelon wrote:
               | > why should the government intercede to take that away
               | from them
               | 
               | Because Apple is the new Standard Oil. We've decided that
               | too much power and control in one vertically and
               | horizontally integrated company is bad for consumers, bad
               | for business, and bad for the health of our capitalist
               | enterprise.
               | 
               | Under Apple's thumb it's much harder to launch a new
               | product and be profitable. Apple takes too much and
               | demands unreasonable things.
               | 
               | Apple is the face of computing today. They've installed
               | themselves as the troll on the bridge. They need to be
               | reminded that this is not the correct or healthy role for
               | them to play and that there are plenty of other
               | opportunities for them to pursue.
               | 
               | Microsoft post-DOJ emerged a healthier company. Apple
               | will too.
        
             | Jtsummers wrote:
             | 300 million American consumers aren't using iPhones. Why
             | this obsession? Seriously, 99% of your comments on anything
             | remotely connected to Apple end up being this same thing.
             | "A New Apple Variety has been Developed"
             | 
             | echelon: Regulate Apple and iOS!
        
               | echelon wrote:
               | For crying out loud, this is for the disappearing
               | _personal computer_!
               | 
               | When could Apple's takeover possibly be more relevant?
               | 
               | Apple needs heavy regulation, as do the rest of the tech
               | monopolies.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | So the MacBook/iPhone/iPad are not cultural objects?
        
       | ofrzeta wrote:
       | There's nothing better than a huge display with high resolution,
       | keyboard and mouse. The computer might be in a separate chassis
       | or a laptop or whatever but a huge display and a mouse are
       | indispensable.
        
         | duxup wrote:
         | Heck in addition to my keyboard I've been thinking of building
         | a board with a bunch of buttons just for firing off random
         | things.
         | 
         | API requests when testing and so forth ... for whatever reason
         | a separate set of physical keys makes more sense in my head.
        
           | mishu2 wrote:
           | Something like this? https://xkeys.com/xk24black.html
           | 
           | I saw it recommended here a while ago, haven't tried it
           | myself.
        
             | OJFord wrote:
             | Ouch, why on earth did that cost so much? That's an order
             | of magnitude above what I'd expect.
             | 
             | I get the appeal, but I still have unused function keys.
             | (I'm using.. off the top of my head, F1-5.)
        
             | MarcScott wrote:
             | Or the cheaper, cooler and probably more hackable Keybow
             | 2040
             | 
             | https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/keybow-2040?variant=3239
             | 9...
        
         | plazmatic wrote:
         | Huge display? What are you, a noob?
         | 
         | 29" or bust. Nothing bigger nothing smaller. It's absolute
         | perfection.
        
         | munk-a wrote:
         | Honestly, I personally love the aesthetic of big whirring fans
         | and blinking lights. If you offered me an M1 MacBook Pro but it
         | would be buried in a 7 foot tall cupboard plastered in lights
         | and fans that occasionally, randomly, sounded like a jet engine
         | taking off... I would be in heaven.
        
           | Scramblejams wrote:
           | Some day I hope all of my home compute will be housed in
           | something that looks like WOPR.
        
           | asdff wrote:
           | Stick the macbook in a mini fridge and reap the cooling
           | benefits
        
           | zozbot234 wrote:
           | > buried in a 7 foot tall cupboard plastered in lights and
           | fans that occasionally, randomly, sounded like a jet engine
           | taking off...
           | 
           | There might be a market for rackmountable hardware with the
           | much-needed addition of proper RGB lighting (for improved
           | performance).
        
             | my_usernam3 wrote:
             | .... I'd pay for that if its a good docking station as
             | well!
        
             | yurishimo wrote:
             | Linus Tech Tips has his personal rig in a 3u (?) rack
             | mounted case in his attic. It can and has been done!
        
             | munk-a wrote:
             | Could you bundle in some decals - you know, to make it go
             | faster?
        
       | mkl95 wrote:
       | My desktop computer -which doubles as my workstation- is going to
       | be 10 years old soon. The replacements during these years make it
       | a beast to this day, it beats a $5000 Macbook Pro into a pulp for
       | a fraction of the price. I'm not considering ditching it for now.
        
         | savant_penguin wrote:
         | Mostly any pc you build with much less than $5k will beat a $5k
         | MacBook pro
        
           | mkl95 wrote:
           | In my experience, it beats mid to high tier iMacs as well.
           | Those things get clunky for no reason.
        
             | zten wrote:
             | iMacs are usually laptops in all but name. To hit the same
             | thinness with a giant heat-producing screen, most of the
             | parts are their mobile equivalents.
             | 
             | Edit: on slightly closer inspection, this isn't true for
             | the 27" models!
        
               | kitsunesoba wrote:
               | The 27" models have traditionally used off the shelf
               | socketed CPUs though, which is unusual in AIOs. Regular
               | 27" models use desktop i9s and the Pro uses a desktop
               | Xeon. Both can technically have their CPUs upgraded even
               | if opening them is a pain.
        
               | zten wrote:
               | Ah, cool. I was too focused on the GPUs! edit: which...
               | actually appear to be the desktop-named parts! I swear
               | this wasn't always the case...
        
               | mhh__ wrote:
               | Thank god for them being thin, I actually had to throw
               | away my 2013 iMac because it was just unbearable reading
               | my emails with x-ray vision and noticing just how thick
               | it is.
        
               | asdff wrote:
               | What is hilarious is that the thin imac weighs the same
               | 20lbs as the one that was a few inches thicker and had
               | better cooling and user replaceable parts.
        
           | bitwize wrote:
           | When the M2 Mac Pro drops, the tables will turn: no PC will
           | even nearly match it.
        
             | baconshirt wrote:
             | Cute
        
             | TedDoesntTalk wrote:
             | I don't see how that is possible. Desktop PCs have almost
             | unlimited space -- cases can be measured in cubic feet.
             | MacBooks are always space constrained because of their case
             | size and weight minimizing, so there is an inherent
             | disadvantage in the size of components like graphics
             | boards. And a size disadvantage means fewer transistors and
             | less cooling.
        
               | function_seven wrote:
               | Parent is referring to Mac Pro (the desktop).
               | 
               | I blame Apple's product line branding for this confusion.
               | I make the same mistake all the time.
        
               | asdff wrote:
               | To be fair the mac pro went through its own horrible
               | shrinkage phase where it was not much larger than my $50
               | air filter. The old aluminum case used to be pretty large
               | and pretty spacious internally, with many extra bays
               | waiting for you to give them purpose. Not sure how the
               | newest one stacks up to the first mac pro/mac g5 case.
        
             | system2 wrote:
             | So an M2 can beat a AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 3995WX or a
             | dual CPU mobo tower with 128gb ram, also a PCI nvme? LOL
             | right.
        
               | 988747 wrote:
               | I do not see why not - performance of Apple processors is
               | insane.
        
         | grobibi wrote:
         | My M1 Air renders and edits 4k as well as my ryzen 3700x with
         | 64 gigs of ram and a samsung nvme. It loses out in encoding
         | though. I cant get the same quality/size ratio with
         | VideoToolBox as I can with NVENC.
        
         | TchoBeer wrote:
         | is it as portable as a macbook pro?
        
           | mkl95 wrote:
           | Portability is not a problem, my employer provides me with a
           | powerful laptop that I keep permanently. They are different
           | tools that serve me in different situations.
        
           | hawski wrote:
           | I have a Macbook Pro (though 15") and a PC, but also a
           | ridiculously underpowered Chromebook with a crappy 11"
           | 1366x768 screen. Lately I find myself when I'm on the run in
           | the city to grab the Chromebook and ssh to my desktop (I've
           | got Zerotier set up). This is my ultimate portable duo. It
           | could be better, but it is lightweight, battery runs full day
           | and I have all power I need. Then when I get back I have it
           | even better with less latency.
        
             | TedDoesntTalk wrote:
             | What's old is new again! This is how mainframe terminals
             | worked.
        
               | hawski wrote:
               | That's a setup I wanted for quite some time and I know it
               | was available for some time, but ubiquitous fast and
               | cheap wireless Internet is something new I guess, also
               | with all-day batteries all in a lightweight package.
        
               | my_usernam3 wrote:
               | Can you explain further? I'm guessing you mean once a
               | mainframe's resources were outdated, it became a
               | terminal?
        
               | Jtsummers wrote:
               | No. In the heyday of mainframes people would remote in,
               | with a terminal. That's where the terminal protocols many
               | people still use on a daily basis actually come from.
               | Sending text over the wire to display on your terminal
               | screen, you type into a keyboard which transmits your
               | input across the wire to the mainframe which responds
               | with new screen updates.
               | 
               | Using your desktop remotely from a cheaper but more
               | portable device is pretty much the same model (not the
               | same thing, but model) as the way many people interacted
               | with mainframes last century.
        
               | Macha wrote:
               | No, the users had crappy devices (terminals) which worked
               | because they could access the compute resources of a
               | bigger device (the mainframe)
        
           | ecshafer wrote:
           | For the same price point of a macbook pro you can literally
           | get a more powerful desktop, and a more powerful laptop. Or
           | an even more powerful desktop, and a laptop and just use a
           | vpn with remote desktop like a normal person.
        
           | pretendscholar wrote:
           | Do you really think they wouldn't acknowledge the upsides of
           | a laptop? Why is that relevant to raw flops/dollar?
        
         | smoldesu wrote:
         | I built an $800 budget PC 7 years ago, it beats my M1 Macbook
         | Air in Blender renders by about 20%
        
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