[HN Gopher] An old tent design made with new materials
___________________________________________________________________
An old tent design made with new materials
Author : oblib
Score : 172 points
Date : 2021-06-14 19:25 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (azartiz.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (azartiz.com)
| maiya9 wrote:
| nice, looks great!
| jordache wrote:
| that front panel looks dangerous.. fire facing and is made from
| flammable plastic sheets
| nati0n wrote:
| Broken link.
| Semiapies wrote:
| "It's said that Henry David Thoreau lived alone in a Bakers tent
| on Walden Pond."
|
| Who says this? Thoreau lived in a cabin and had his mother bring
| him food every day.
| mikestew wrote:
| Thoreau says this, in _The Maine Woods_ [0]. (EDIT: Thoreau
| says that he lived in a tent in Maine, not at Walden Pond.) The
| author of TFA got it a little wrong. Note to those wanting to
| replicate this: I'm pretty sure Thoreau's tent catches fire at
| some point. I'd have to re-read to confirm or deny if it had
| anything to do with setting the tent in front of the fire, as
| the author of TFA does.
|
| [0] https://www.thoreau-online.org/the-maine-woods.html
| robocat wrote:
| "A shed-shaped tent will catch and reflect the heat like a
| Yankee-baker, and you may be drying while you are sleeping."
| Page 124: http://www.thoreau-online.org/the-maine-woods-
| page124.html
|
| " We had no sooner pitched our tent than the thunder-shower
| burst on us, and we hastily crept under it, drawing our bags
| after us, curious to see how much of a shelter our thin
| cotton roof was going to be in this excursion. Though the
| violence of the rain forced a fine shower through the cloth
| before it was fairly wetted and shrunk, with which we were
| well bedewed, we managed to keep pretty dry". Page 99:
| http://www.thoreau-online.org/the-maine-woods-page99.html
|
| "Our bed was made with as much care and skill as a roof is
| shingled; beginning at the foot, and laying the twig end of
| the cedar upward, we advanced to the head, a course at a
| time, thus successively covering the stub-ends, and producing
| a soft and level bed. For us six it was about ten feet long
| by six in breadth. This time we lay under our tent, having
| pitched it more prudently with reference to the wind and the
| flame, and the usual huge fire blazed in front." Page 27:
| http://www.thoreau-online.org/the-maine-woods-page27.html
|
| I didn't find anything about a tent catching fire, but I only
| skim searched.
| Semiapies wrote:
| Thanks for the correction/clarification.
| themodelplumber wrote:
| Right on, that is really similar to Cody's Super Shelter from
| _Dual Survival_...I admit it blew my mind when I first saw it.
|
| https://youtu.be/EvKLOMgtM1Q
|
| (Cody throws in the "long-wave radiation" terminology for extra
| survival credibility points)
| eagsalazar2 wrote:
| Modern backpacking tents have achieved an exquisite pinnacle of
| engineering and usability perfection. I am a UX _baby_ (constant
| whining about almost every tool /service/product I interact with,
| sorry to everyone who has to be around me) and I _love_ my tent.
| It is magical the degree to which it has been thoughtfully
| optimized in so many little ways.
|
| DIY tents like this one are interesting and fun if you are into
| geeking on that sort of thing but honestly seem like a pain to
| set up and likely to have severe condensation issues (as others
| have mentioned) but, seriously, I appreciate the geekery here,
| just not my focus. I prefer to invest my camping DIY geekery on
| bushwhacking and cooking.
| jimbob21 wrote:
| What tent do you use
| tucosan wrote:
| Now you need to tell us which tent you own.
| kstrauser wrote:
| Seconded. I'm working up to a 50 mile trip and I'd love some
| recommendations.
| qbasic_forever wrote:
| I'm guessing it's a Zpacks Duplex, it's basically the
| favorite tent of any through-hiker for the last couple
| years: https://zpacks.com/products/duplex-tent They are
| very well designed and built--100% DCF so they're strong
| and light, yet great resistance to weather. Unlike most
| other UL shelters it makes almost no sacrifices and has all
| the niceties of heavier shelters, like a full floor and
| interior mesh, big vestibules, etc. And it packs up into an
| impossibly small size and weight in your pack.
| setgree wrote:
| Love my duplex. Hiking the AT now, it is indeed hiker
| standard. The gossamer gear One also gets rave reviews.
| tshaddox wrote:
| I love my Duplex as well, and that was also my guess. I
| would note that the biggest downside (other than cost) is
| that the Duplex is not a free-standing tent (although
| they do offer a couple of free-standing versions which
| are significantly heavier). It will sometimes require
| patience and creativity to set up the tent in areas that
| are very short on usable ground space (like dense
| forests) or hostile to tent stakes (like rocks). It's
| also not the easiest tent to setup extremely quickly,
| like during a rain or hail shower in the Sierras (but
| I've encountered that and managed well enough).
| newsbinator wrote:
| > Weight 19.0 oz / 539 g
|
| Wow!!
| qbasic_forever wrote:
| DCF fabric, it's a real game-changer for shelters. It
| isn't cheap unfortunately and you do have to treat it
| with some care.
| wetmore wrote:
| Big Agnes Copper Spur UL is great, I've had one for 5 years
| and love it.
| rusteh1 wrote:
| Not OP, but I have an MSR Hubba Hubba NX that is pretty
| amazing. I've had several backpacking tents over the years
| and its my favourite.
| bergie wrote:
| Seconding this one. Great lightweight tent without major
| compromises, but still at a reasonable price and
| mainstream availability (unlike most of the ultralight
| tents made of exotic materials)
| radus wrote:
| Yes, please! Also curious about preferences for other related
| equipment - backpacks etc.
| ghaff wrote:
| It really depends on your requirements. Mostly don't get a
| bigger/heavier one than you (actually) need and get one
| that feels comfortable/fits you. I have an Osprey Atmos if
| I need more space and I have an older and smaller Gregory
| something if I'm looking to do short lightweight summer
| backpacks and maybe use the same thing for dayhikes.
| jupp0r wrote:
| I've been sleeping in Hilleberg tents for probably close to a
| year of my life. They are very robust at a great (though not
| ultra-light) weight. I own a Jannu and a Keron 3 GT.
| Mediterraneo10 wrote:
| Hilleberg tents do seem nice in terms of the fabrics they
| use and the design. However, as the long-haul cyclist
| community has found, the zippers give out appallingly early
| for such an expensive, artisanal product. (By the end of
| the Carretera Austral there seemed to be more Hilleberg
| owners with broken zippers than working zippers.)
|
| I owned a Hilleberg Nallo GT-class tent that did seem like
| the five-star hotel of tents, but when the zipper gave out
| after less than five months of use, I decided in future to
| simply go with an MSR Hubba-class tent that doesn't feel
| much of a step down in comfort, and is less than half the
| price, so I can replace it if need be and still have spent
| less than I would for one Hilleberg.
| ghaff wrote:
| Fabrics are a really underappreciated aspect of a lot of modern
| outdoor gear, especially with respect to weight. My main
| objection, as I mentioned in another comment, is that
| durability is one of the tradeoffs. A few years ago I had one
| of the super light and compact sleeping pads develop a leak
| after literally about three days. It was replaced for free but
| that didn't help at the time.
|
| I have a new very lightweight tent I bought shortly before
| pandemic. Looking to try it out this fall.
| Mediterraneo10 wrote:
| > I had one of the super light and compact sleeping pads
| develop a leak after literally about three days.
|
| Therm-a-Rests are a dependable brand in this regard, as while
| a leak may happen some time to time (I have had two punctures
| in about one year of sleeping outdoors), it is usually very
| easy to find the hole and patch it yourself, just like you do
| with a bicycle inner tube. I think Therm-a-Rest even includes
| the patch kit with some of its models now.
| [deleted]
| qbasic_forever wrote:
| > All things considered this tent, at less than 3 pounds, is one
| the lightest 2-person, freestanding, tents around that can handle
| four-season conditions.
|
| 4-season tents are made to handle wind and snow accumulation,
| which this thing definitely would fail. It's a fun exercise for
| bushcrafting but don't kid yourself and think you can go 15k+
| feet up a mountain and survive 50mph wind gusts like you could in
| a Hilleberg or other true 4 season tent.
|
| I'm a big fan of tarps and tents with pyramid designs--the MLD
| trailstar is an awesome shelter that's proven itself well in
| windy, rainy Scottish highlands and is a favorite shelter for
| backpackers there:
| https://mountainlaureldesigns.com/product/trailstar/
| mikestew wrote:
| One of the Hillebergs I have is four-season and weighs 3 lbs.,
| including the poles. I can have it up in ten minutes, tops. The
| tent in the article might weigh 3 lbs., but that doesn't
| include the tree branches one is going to have to scrounge for
| to make tent poles. So if, as you mention, one is at 15K feet
| then snow accumulation is the least of one's worries if you
| can't find any tent poles above the tree line. :-)
|
| I mean, it could be a cool design to play with but it has a
| somewhat limited range of usefulness.
| ghaff wrote:
| It's a little like igloos and snow caves. Fun to play around
| with once or twice but not really practical in general.
| jupp0r wrote:
| Snow caves can be quite practical if the snow and terrain
| are suitable for them. Not a reason not to carry a tent but
| I've built snow caves even though I had a tent with me
| because they are so much more comfortable.
| ghaff wrote:
| Hence "in general" :-) Snow caves are probably more
| practical than igloos for a night or two but can still
| involve a fair bit of physical work and hence getting
| sweaty. Don't really disagree that snow caves can
| sometimes be fairly practical in the winter in the right
| snow conditions.
| Danborg wrote:
| It looks a lot like the Oztent RV-2 to me.
|
| https://www.oztent.com/products/tent-range/oztent-range/ozte...
| motohagiography wrote:
| Amazing, when you add the idea of a Swedish rocket stove
| (https://hackaday.com/2021/06/01/disposable-rocket-stove-keep...)
| this could make camping way more accessible.
|
| I've got some motorcycle camping planned, and own an auger for
| that stove purpose, but was looking for a tent, and this looks
| super interesting.
| andaluz wrote:
| Better take something that could be used inside the tent and
| makes no smoke. So that you could make some tea or noodles
| while it rains outside. And no mosquitoes. Believe me, been
| there.
| e12e wrote:
| Looks like a carbon monoxide death trap if you close it up
| and light up _inside_...
| jointpdf wrote:
| I would strongly advise against anyone cooking inside their
| tent (fire risk, animal magnet, carbon monoxide poisoning--
| all elaborated on here: https://sectionhiker.com/how-to-
| safely-cook-in-a-tent/). Tents are usually very flammable--
| especially the mesh bug netting, which melts almost instantly
| even from the indirect heat of a lighter held a few feet
| away.
|
| If you have to in an emergency, then at least cook in the
| vestibule area (i.e. outside and away from the tent material)
| with lots of ventilation.
|
| PS: I think it is essential to embark on any
| camping/backpacking trip with a mindset of
| adaptation/sacrifice. You have to be willing to make
| conservative or uncomfortable decisions in the name of risk
| management (e.g. trudging through a stream and getting your
| shoes wet vs. attempting a dry crossing on a precarious log,
| or resisting the warm noodle cravings during a rainstorm).
| Besides, it makes the experience of returning to civilization
| that much more exhilarating.
| PuffinBlue wrote:
| That's going to be a condensation fest in there.
|
| Pretty sure The Outdoor Gear Review did a real world test of
| something very similar. They 'work' in that they do heat up, but
| they're a lot of work and get extremely sweaty when made from
| those non-breathable plastic survival sheets.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJwvH90g3Yw
|
| For a more in depth look at using more 'appropriate' modern
| materials, 'Simon, A Bloke in the Woods' has a decent series on
| making a Baker Tent from scratch:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Df0keicL5U
| zikzak wrote:
| When I was a kid we'd walk about five hours to a lake and fish
| there. A structure like this was there. It was just rough poles
| lashes to a couple of trees. You like evergreen brush on it. A
| tarp thrown over it keeps the rain of but breathes well. And if
| you like mosquitoes and black flies out is basically paradise.
| ghaff wrote:
| Furthermore, there are a lot of places where you can't even
| have an open fire and/or there isn't a lot of wood. Cool
| experiment but tents and other sleeping arrangements like
| hammocks are a pretty well-trod area where real innovations are
| mostly through using new materials--one disadvantage of which
| is that super-light gear in my experience is increasingly
| fragile.
| Implicated wrote:
| For those of you who are also gear-heads geeking out about tents
| and what not, I built this service quite some years back now to
| aggregate a bunch of lightweight focused used gear markets along
| with some notification features.
|
| It's got a lot of the cottage gear manufacturers mentioned in
| this thread - part of the goal with building the site was to try
| to bring some awareness to their services!
|
| [1] https://lwhiker.com
| lixtra wrote:
| What happens if the tent catches fire? Does it burn?
| oblib wrote:
| That plastic really doesn't burn too well. It's easy to test
| with bit of it and a bic lighter. And I did test it a lot and
| read up on it.
| jupp0r wrote:
| Polyethylene is highly combustable according to the FAA
| https://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/05-14.pdf
| e12e wrote:
| I'm guessing it'll burn, but perhaps not very well/too
| dangerously... But I'm sure there's a way to weld yourself in
| molten plastic if you're unlucky?
|
| Not certain which exact model is used - doesn't look like
| they're advertised as flame retarded? (most modern tents are)
|
| https://www.surviveoutdoorslonger.com/shelters/heat-reflecti...
| kragen wrote:
| Works fine for me, but https://archive.fo/kMceI is a possible
| alternative if you're having trouble with the JS.
| jupp0r wrote:
| Having a camp fire right next to a tent made of highly flammable
| polyethylene seems like ... less great of an idea.
| bombcar wrote:
| Those emergency blankets don't work like normal blankets - by
| trapping air and preventing it from moving - but by reflecting
| heat and keeping it in.
| jadyoyster wrote:
| I'm not a physicist but wouldn't this reflective effect be tiny
| compared to the prevention of convective heat loss?
| Cerium wrote:
| I spent a night in the woods (on purpose, not a real
| emergency) sleeping with an emergency blanket. It was not at
| all comfortable, but the blanket seriously worked. I would
| wake up whenever it moved to stop covering me because it
| would instantly become cold, then feel much warmer as soon as
| the blanket is back in place.
|
| The reflective action is impressive. They also act as a wind
| break and turn whatever clothes you are wearing into a more
| effective measure against convective heat loss.
| zwp wrote:
| A long time ago I similarly tested a (non-heat-reflective)
| orange plastic survival bag, sleeping overnight behind some
| rocks on exposed moorland (something like
| https://www.military1st.eu/cs037-highlander-emergency-
| surviv...).
|
| The poor thermal insulation and condensation were
| predictable. I hadn't predicted the shifting wind which
| chose to balloon my orange cocoon with cold air every 20
| mins no matter which orientation I chose to lie in. I
| finished the night with a bungie cord around the sack,
| under my armpits. That of course left my head, shoulders
| and arms exposed but kept the wind out. Not recommended.
|
| After this experience I upgraded to reflective mylar
| survival bags. NB "bag". These are a little harder to find
| than survival blankets but if a bag can be so badly
| affected by moderate wind, a blanket would be so much
| worse.
| legulere wrote:
| Considering average human body area is around 2 square meters
| and body temperature is around 37 degrees Celsius I get
| around 1000 W of radiation from the human body according to
| this calculator: http://hyperphysics.phy-
| astr.gsu.edu/hbase/quantum/radfrac.h...
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| Or to put that in terms of net heat loss, in the 0-30C
| range you're looking at about 10 watts for every degree of
| difference between your skin and the environment.
| [deleted]
| dredmorbius wrote:
| Backing out human power consumption from caloric
| requirements comes closer to 120W constant output, at 2,500
| kcal/day.
|
| The range is a low of about 50--75W (1,000--1,500 kcal,
| effectively starvation levels), and a maximum ceiling of
| around 485W (10,000 kcal day, perhaps a elite endurance
| athlete). Well below 1 kW in all cases.
| pengaru wrote:
| > Those emergency blankets don't work like normal blankets - by
| trapping air and preventing it from moving - but by reflecting
| heat and keeping it in.
|
| This reads as if to imply emergency blankets vent air freely,
| that's obviously not true.
| snewman wrote:
| Thermal insulation, whether we're talking about a blanket, a
| winter jacket, or the foam stuff in your walls, generally
| involves a layer of some thickness within which there are
| many tiny spaces full of trapped air. It's difficult for heat
| to propagate across those spaces. The author's point is that
| mylar emergency blankets do not provide this thick layer of
| "trapped air". It's true that they prevent air from crossing,
| but only for the very thin layer of the blanket.
|
| I'm not sure exactly how effective the mylar blankets are and
| under what circumstances, but this is what "trapped air"
| refers to.
| amelius wrote:
| And they are not comfortable, as this post shows:
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/CampingandHiking/comments/4wtetp/im...
| deleted_account wrote:
| It's a baker tent[1] made from SOL Emergency Blankets[2]. They
| get warm, but what doesn't when you have a long fire in front of
| you.
|
| [1] http://ruralsportsman.com/rediscover-the-baker-tent/ [2]
| https://www.surviveoutdoorslonger.com/survive-outdoors-longe...
| kag0 wrote:
| The idea sounds fun, but I'm a little skeptical of the author's
| claims that it'll get to 80 degrees with only a small fire in
| front of it.
|
| It's quite possible the author and I have different ideas of
| what a small backpacking fire looks like.
| colonelxc wrote:
| One of the videos has a kid read off a thermometer at 79
| degrees (with snow on the ground). You can judge for yourself
| the size of the fire in that video.
| oblib wrote:
| I can say without any worry of being proved wrong that it is
| very easy to warm that tent to 80+ degrees with even a small
| campfire like the one seen in the video with my grandson
| bouncing around inside it.
|
| I use a layer of thicker branches about 3" in diameter first,
| then I use smaller diameter sticks in layers on top of that.
| When you light that off the smaller sticks burn down and
| create a bed of coals on the first layer that keep fuel
| burning as it's added.
|
| By design that burns low and slow. I'm also burning deadfall
| from hardwoods, Oak and Hickory by choice, and because that's
| what's growing in our forest here.
| jupp0r wrote:
| SOL blankets are made from polyethylene which is highly
| flammable. Seems like a great idea to end up with third degree
| burns miles from civilization.
| throwawaysea wrote:
| I see no content on the linked page. Am I missing something?
| kstrauser wrote:
| Little Snitch seems to think it fetches AJAX on a nonstandard
| port.
| dec0dedab0de wrote:
| yeah, its trying to get to cherrypc.com on port 6984. That's
| kind of strange. Work proxy won't let me see it, oh well.
| Etheryte wrote:
| You need to have Javascript enabled because the content is
| faded in by a script, apparently. Here's a pastebin of the
| text, but the post includes videos too:
| https://pastebin.com/8UwWUyTE
| dredmorbius wrote:
| Fails both Wayback Machine as well. That's a bad look.
|
| (I'd thought Archive.is also balked, though that now seems to
| work.)
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2021-06-14 23:00 UTC)