[HN Gopher] Doing something is better than doing nothing for mos...
___________________________________________________________________
Doing something is better than doing nothing for most people: study
(2014)
Author : looperhacks
Score : 200 points
Date : 2021-06-13 13:21 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (news.virginia.edu)
(TXT) w3m dump (news.virginia.edu)
| DangitBobby wrote:
| It is supremely uncomfortable inside some people's heads.
| fighterpilot wrote:
| More generally, it is supremely uncomfortable inside some
| people's _bodies_. I don 't just mean someone with physical
| pain. Anxiety, depression and other disorders are a whole-body
| experience.
| carapace wrote:
| I believe this is a wildly underappreciated fact: Most folks
| are miserable, and most of us don't realize it due to a kind
| of "fish don't notice water" effect.
|
| > Under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this
| planet every person you meet should be regarded as one of the
| walking wounded. We have never seen a man or woman not
| slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. We have never
| seen a totally sane human being.
|
| ~Robert Anton Wilson
| ambivalents wrote:
| A good illustration of this is riding the NYC subway. I think
| most people would choose a slower-moving local line if it shows
| up before the more efficient express line, even if the express
| would get you to your destination sooner.
| elzbardico wrote:
| I used to do that with bus lines, provided I could get a seat.
| Between 20 mins standing + 20 mins crowded fast bus line
| (standing) and 60 minutes comfortably seated with no wait, I
| always choose the later. But, I may be the exception, as I find
| riding the bus a pleasurable activity.
| paulcarroty wrote:
| I treat "doing nothing" as failure. It's normal to be bored,
| confused, tired sometimes, but you should have a goal & move
| forward, _always_.
| paulcole wrote:
| I treat doing nothing as success. I opted out of the working
| world for 3 years in my 20s (lived cheaply off savings) and did
| little more than watch movies/tv, read, and walk/exercise.
|
| Had no goals and no ambitions and loved every moment of it.
| nickkell wrote:
| What if your goal is to do nothing?
| SuchAnonMuchWow wrote:
| Not related to the content of the article, but am I the only one
| bothered with the way the article spell ranges: "six to 15
| minutes", "Twelve of 18 men", "six of 24 females" ...
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| temp8964 wrote:
| It is in the APA style guide: "In addition to using words to
| express numbers below 10, use words to also express:
|
| Numbers beginning a sentence, title, or text heading"
|
| https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/research_and_citation/apa6_style/...
| sp332 wrote:
| That is in tension with using numerals for "Numbers that
| represent statistical or mathematical functions, fractional
| or decimal quantities, percentages, ratios..." And the tie-
| breaker is below:
|
| _If you're unsure which modifier to write and which to
| express numerically, try it both ways. Be sure the way you
| express the numbers is in the clearest way possible._
| Jiocus wrote:
| Yes but at least they are consistent with the pattern _word_ of
| _numeral_ , which is often a good rule to use if not employing
| a specific styleguide.
|
| For example, using the APA guide[1] for numbers (thanks @OJFord
| for pointing out my error): "Six to 15", "12 of 18", Six of
| 24".
|
| Edit: As @temp8964 correctly pointed out, there are situations
| where words are recommended[2].
|
| -
|
| [1]: https://apastyle.apa.org/
|
| [2]: https://apastyle.apa.org/style-grammar-
| guidelines/numbers/wo...
| OJFord wrote:
| Don't you have that backwards? I'm not familiar with APA
| style guide but I was taught at school (UK) to use words
| below ten (at least, and to be consistent, i.e. saying 'ten'
| just then is fine as long as I don't now start saying '10' or
| '11') - I'd be surprised if APA advocated exactly the
| opposite, based on your example.
| Jiocus wrote:
| Hah! You're right, of course. My mind must have been
| elsewhere when writing the example, considering that I was
| literally reading the APA guide and thinking of the rule
| you laid out while at it.
| mattkrause wrote:
| Switching within a phrase, like "six to 15", strikes me as
| pointless hobgobblin-ey consistency, especially when the
| numbers are close to the cutoff.
|
| I find it so much more jarring than either "six to fifteen"
| or "6-15."
| the_only_law wrote:
| Now if only I could bring myself to actually do something.
| clircle wrote:
| I think the headline 'doing something is _better_ than doing
| nothing ' is a bit misleading. Based on my reading on the
| article, maybe it should be 'people would rather do something
| than not' because the researchers studied preferences, not
| utilities.
| failwhaleshark wrote:
| Idleness is rust.
| swayvil wrote:
| If you have a habit and you cease that constant, habitual action.
| It looks a bit like doing and and it also looks a bit like not-
| doing.
|
| And habits are often completely invisible.
|
| So that's something to consider.
| jonplackett wrote:
| This reminds me of a clip of Louis CK talking about losing the
| ability to just sit with your own thoughts and be really sad.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HbYScltf1c&t=53s
|
| Shame he turned out to be a sexual deviant because he said some
| interesting things.
| reidjs wrote:
| I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss his entire act because of
| what he did. Watch his latest special to see his perspective.
| He's not exactly Bill Cosby.
| watwut wrote:
| Bill Cosby is rather low bar.
| carapace wrote:
| > I wouldn't be so quick...
|
| I was a big fan of Louis CK, it took me about five days to
| internalize what he did and decide that his career was over
| as far as I'm concerned. It broke my heart. The guy is a
| creep and I can't watch him anymore.
|
| Compare and contrast with what happened to Paul Reubens. He
| was arrested for masturbating during a film at an adult movie
| theater. He didn't force people to watch him like Louis CK
| allegedly did. It took eight years for his career to revive,
| and he arguably never fully recovered.
|
| > In July 1991, Reubens was arrested for indecent exposure in
| an adult theater in Sarasota, Florida. The arrest set off a
| chain reaction of national media attention that changed the
| general public's view of Reubens and Pee-wee.[3] The arrest
| postponed Reubens' involvement in major projects until 1999
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Reubens#1991_arrest_and_r.
| ..
| hedberg10 wrote:
| "One bad thought ruins entirety of humans other thoughts, they
| are now null and void. News at eleven!"
| watwut wrote:
| Tho, he did nor had one bad thought.
|
| Issue is, he had multiple bad actions that actually harmed
| people. And he had worldview that rationalized those actions
| as something ok to do.
| jonplackett wrote:
| What's that quote from?
| arthurcolle wrote:
| GP is making a statement in jest
| alisonkisk wrote:
| Poor use of sarcasm (as most sarcasm is).
| anonomousename wrote:
| How come? I'd argue that he made a decent point - one bad
| action of an individual doesn't invalidate everything
| else they've done. Using sarcasm can turn a bland,
| potentially combative statement like that into a joke.
| alisonkisk wrote:
| Two sides of a coin. "Deviant" and "interesting" are the same
| kinds behaviors but with different value judgements.
| elliekelly wrote:
| I don't think "deviant" is the right word to describe CK's
| abhorrent behavior at all. Being different isn't a bad thing.
| Rex Ryan is a "deviant". Sure, some people may judge him but
| there's nothing inherently harmful or unethical about what he
| chooses to do for sexual gratification. CK might be a deviant
| in that others don't find gratification the way he apparently
| does but his deviance isn't the issue. This issue is that
| he's sexually exploitative of others.
| jonplackett wrote:
| I'm unsure if you're saying I shouldn't be criticising him
| or should be more critical?
|
| If he'd just been doing something sexually odd on his own I
| have no issue with almost anything that might be - but what
| he was doing abused his power and hurt other people.
| sfgweilr4f wrote:
| Maybe. But I've also just gone deep into what most people would
| call a forest and just sit there for more than 2 hours. No music.
| No notebook. Nothing to read. Just sit there. Close your eyes.
| Sit.
|
| Does that qualify as doing nothing? Or is that classed as some
| kind of meditation?
| rossdavidh wrote:
| I think what that means is, most people don't (and wouldn't
| want to) do something that you choose to do, at least
| occasionally. I also meditate, on occasion. But I note that
| many methods of meditation involve giving you something to do
| (slow walking meditation, for example), perhaps precisely for
| this reason?
| Jeff_Brown wrote:
| The funniest part:
|
| "[The researchers] then asked, "Would they rather do an
| unpleasant activity than no activity at all?" ... Participants
| were given the same circumstances as most of the previous
| studies, with the added option of also administering a mild
| electric shock to themselves by pressing a button.
|
| Twelve of 18 men in the study gave themselves at least one
| electric shock during the study's 15-minute "thinking" period. By
| comparison, six of 24 females shocked themselves. All of these
| participants had received a sample of the shock and reported that
| they would pay to avoid being shocked again."
| foobiekr wrote:
| As I read this, I was thinking how much I would enjoy
| participating in such a study and seeing how many times I could
| shock myself before I couldn't take it anymore. My very first
| thought was how much I would like to have the ability to test
| myself.
| MeinBlutIstBlau wrote:
| It's really fascinating to me as well that a lot of men would
| be that way. I understand "why" but for myself personally I can
| entertain my own thoughts alone for an extended period time.
| I've always been that way since I was young so the thought of
| shocking yourself because you're bored with your own thoughts
| still is an odd concept to me. How can you despise your own
| inner monologue that much? Is introspection really that
| unmasculine of a task to some men? Many people to me seem so
| focused on the present and engaging without considering
| possible outcomes before acting. It's one facet of humanity I
| still don't understand outside of justifying that it's another
| irrational thing humans do for the sake of irrationality.
| Klinky wrote:
| Novelty. How often are you part of a study where you get to
| shock yourself? It makes a good story, and this kind of makes
| the study less useful. The "shock value" of shocking oneself
| is its own entertainment. Would not be surprised if some of
| the people who didn't shock themselves were spending the time
| trying to amp themselves up to take the shock, but just never
| did.
| tonyedgecombe wrote:
| All the participants had received a "sample" shock and
| decided they didn't like it. They already had their good
| story.
| WJW wrote:
| I would also be really interested in a repeat of the
| experiment but with differing age groups. My hypothesis is
| that younger men would perhaps find it "manly" to suffer
| electric shocks (perhaps even if just as a bar story for
| later) while older people would not feel the need for such
| activities anymore.
| Izkata wrote:
| Also, erotic electro-stimulation (e-stim) is a thing. It
| doesn't surprise me at all that some people just be curious
| about shocks in general, considering there are people out
| there that do it for fun/pleasure.
| [deleted]
| retskrad wrote:
| I'm 27 years old and I don't have much purpose in life. am I'm
| kind of becoming desperate, to be honest. I have always thought
| about becoming a programmer but I don't know where to start.
|
| What programming language do you learn first? What languages and
| skills do you need to learn to become hire-able by a company?
| [deleted]
| kwhitefoot wrote:
| Do you need an income? If you do then you should probably think
| about what you can do that would generate an income rather than
| going for programming.
|
| While programmers can earn good money it isn't necessarily that
| easy. Another comment recommended Lua, I would say that the
| language you should learn is the one that fits the problems you
| want to solve. In other words, the language is a tool,
| programming itself is a tool, Lua is one specific type of tool
| and it might or might not be the tool for the job.
|
| My advice, assuming that you insist on learning to program, is
| to first find a problem that you would like to solve that might
| be amenable to a programming solution; then pick the language
| that everyone else thinks is appropriate for that field.
| retskrad wrote:
| Thank you
| hypertele-Xii wrote:
| To a small minority, programming is an interest in itself. To
| most programmers, programming is a tool for achieving something
| they want. I learned to program mainly to make video games and
| websites.
|
| For a general purpose programming language, I might suggest
| Lua. It's much less cryptic than most.
| [deleted]
| mikewarot wrote:
| It doesn't really matter what you learn, as long as you
| actually start, and keep up with it.
| swagasaurus-rex wrote:
| Doing something is better than doing nothing
| bananicorn wrote:
| It's never too late to start. At the beginning you should
| really focus on trying some things that keep your attention.
|
| (For me that was programming games - incredibly crufty ones,
| but seeing thing move on my screen got me really excited and
| got me to understand)
|
| Personally, that was javascript for me - mostly because you can
| do stuff with it in any browser you want. Lua[0] is also a
| great language for beginners, and I'm still using it for game
| development[1] and general scripting/fun stuff.
|
| I just don't want to turn this into a hella long comment, so
| I'll wrap it up; but I could talk about the first steps you
| could take for hours :)
|
| If you want to ask me anything on how to get started, just
| shoot me a mail under info@(my username here).com I'd be super
| happy to help :)
|
| [0]https://www.lua.org/ [1]https://love2d.org/
| retskrad wrote:
| Thank you
| rossdavidh wrote:
| 1) what an odd place to ask this question
|
| 2) this is not a bad first place: https://www.w3schools.com/
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| johnchristopher wrote:
| What does it mean regarding depression and laying in bed all day
| doing nothing "with ease" ?
| gwgundersen wrote:
| Ever since reading Bertrand Russell's "The Conquest of
| Happiness", I've thought a lot about the importance of being able
| to sit inside my own head. One quote that I wrote down:
|
| > A life too full of excitement is an exhausting life, in which
| continually stronger stimuli are needed to give the thrill that
| has come to be thought an essential part of pleasure. A person
| accustomed to too much excitement is like a person with a morbid
| craving for pepper, who comes at last to be unable even to taste
| a quantity of pepper which would cause anyone else to choke.
| There is an element of boredom which is inseparable from the
| avoidance of too much excitement, and too much excitement not
| only undermines the health, but dulls the palate for every kind
| of pleasure, substituting titillations for profound organic
| satisfactions, cleverness for wisdom, and jagged surprises for
| beauty... A certain power of enduring boredom is therefore
| essential to a happy life, and is one of the things that ought to
| be taught to the young.
| dQw4w9WgXcQ wrote:
| >substituting titillations for profound organic satisfactions,
| cleverness for wisdom, and jagged surprises for beauty...
|
| ...And porn for relationships and intimacy. If there's any
| modern ill that has exacerbated our inability to be comfortable
| with boredom (which is essentially inner loneliness) it's porn.
| It's an escape for loneliness and a terrible salve that leaves
| the intrinsic desires for intimacy and connection unfulfilled,
| akin to drinking salt water to cure thirst.
|
| A psychological pandemic in its own right, and you can't escape
| its ubiquity and influence.
| akomtu wrote:
| Porn is the fastfood of relationships. The proper food is
| just out of reach for most of the people.
| rantwasp wrote:
| yeah porn is a pandemic, NOT.
|
| here is a secret: we are hardwired to reproduce. you may
| think you have a choice but you are wired to fsck everything
| that has even a remote chance of resulting into you passing
| your genes forward.
|
| porn is a way to release some of the tension that comes with
| this wiring. nothing more, nothing less.
| r0b05 wrote:
| While many functioning porn users will dismiss your comment
| as nonsense, I believe it really is a massive problem in
| society.
|
| Porn in its current iteration, is similar to social media in
| that it literally programs your brain. We program computers
| but are ignorant to the fact that computers can program our
| behaviour if we are not careful. Yes, it is a poor substitute
| for intimacy but it also creates dangerous thought patterns
| and belief systems. These so called kinks have little to do
| with healthy sexual biological functioning. The perversions
| can become so ingrained that one will see it in real life
| instead of what is actually there.
|
| Remember, that a human being is programmed through our
| beliefs and habits, which are formed through repetitions. So
| be extremely careful of what you consume in this age of the
| Internet.
| mwilliaams wrote:
| What kinks do you think are unhealthy? I'd wager that truly
| unhealthy kinks are uncommon.
| syops wrote:
| Virtually all sex acts can be done in a healthy way
| provided both parties are truly into it. Porn has created
| expectations in men as to what women normally want and as
| a result a lot of women do sex acts that they don't truly
| like. Porn has distorted the view of what is 'normal' and
| the expectations of what a woman should consent to.
| haswell wrote:
| The parent comment asks for specifics, but you go back to
| generalizing porn in response.
|
| > _Porn has distorted the view of what is 'normal'_
|
| Surely you mean _some_ porn, but you have not clarified
| which types. What do you say to plain, "vanilla" porn
| that pushes no boundaries? As with so many things, this
| is not a black or white issue, and statements like your
| final sentence do nothing to advance a nuanced
| conversation about the subject.
| syops wrote:
| It's easy to find research on the topic. The research
| supports my view.
| haswell wrote:
| So share the research that supports your view...
|
| As the person making claims without evidence, the onus is
| on you at this point. You're not going to change minds if
| you're not willing to share where you're coming from.
| reshie wrote:
| expectations is perhaps a personality problem and lack of
| honest communication. normal is subjective even if it is
| inherited from societal norms. communication and being
| able to talk freely is key.
| beebeepka wrote:
| Preaching posts like yours are more dangerous than whatever
| excess porn consumption may do to people's brains.
| Spooky23 wrote:
| It's acceptable to have a position or opinion, civilly
| stated.
|
| Any of the common "vices" like gambling, porn, Skinner
| box games, some drugs are difficult for people to manage.
| That dopamine hit burns behavioral pathways into the
| brain and is tough to undo.
| angrais wrote:
| Why are you (and others in this thread) grouping porn
| with drugs and gambling? To me, this does not make any
| sense.
|
| Watching porn is not a bad thing. Obviously, if you're
| talking about addiction then perhaps, but do you think
| people are addicted to porn (on average) to the extent
| others are to those other vices?
|
| Likewise, gambling and drugs impact you both physically
| and mentally, whereas the evidence for porn's impact on
| either is questionable at best.
| beebeepka wrote:
| Apparently everyone is exactly the same and the only
| people whose lives haven't been ruined buy these vices,
| as you call them, are the ones who haven't tried them. I
| am done here
| Spooky23 wrote:
| Not sure why you have a hang up about this.
|
| I enjoy drinking alcohol and have no issues with it, but
| that doesn't mean acknowledging that alcoholism is a
| thing is a problem or some judgemental act.
| haswell wrote:
| The potential downsides associated alcohol consumption
| are well understood, and this understanding has permeated
| most societies.
|
| The same cannot be said for porn consumption. While
| studies exist, this is not a well understood topic, and
| big claims are going to be met with skepticism and
| demands for evidence.
| r0b05 wrote:
| I don't expect everyone to get it but if my insight helps
| a few people then it's worth sharing.
| syops wrote:
| I suspect that many of the people responding haven't read
| any research into the topic.
| haswell wrote:
| What insight, specifically? You make big claims with no
| citation, and when asked for more info, you dismiss those
| questions. If you're interested in helping others
| understand the insights you claim to have, bring some
| details to the table!
|
| I'm pretty curious about the topic, and this is an
| inquisitive community in general. Unfortunately, the way
| you've presented your position is not helpful, especially
| for a group that tends to demand scientific proof or at
| least a well formed hypothesis.
| k__ wrote:
| True.
|
| While I think that the porn industry has inherent
| problems and some people get addicted to it. For me its
| preachers like GP that are doing our society a great
| disservice by moralizing and putting perfectly normal
| humam behaviors down as "perversion".
| beebeepka wrote:
| Exactly. People shouldn't be free to do things rusty cans
| don't approve because our society is at stake here!
|
| There's only one solution to each problem and it's what
| this wise, moral person is selling because if it works
| for them, then it's the only possible truth.
| [deleted]
| vorpalhex wrote:
| Using porn to fix loneliness is like using a screwdriver as a
| hammer. It's not the intent of the tool, nor can you be upset
| with the screwdriver for being a poor hammer. The issue lies
| with the maker, not the tool.
| oblio wrote:
| Many things are clearly harmful because they exploit
| weaknesses in the human psyche and the average person.
| There is a reason why obesity is high and rising, for
| example.
| vorpalhex wrote:
| You can take two views of humans.
|
| One is that they are to be managed - their food choices
| kept narrow to safe ones, dangerous things removed from
| their environment, and only safe and allowable futures
| enabled. Give them little locked down tablets that don't
| view porn, keep their food limited to acceptable options,
| don't let them read dangerous books.
|
| The other view is that humans are free agents, and to
| treat them as less than an agent is to fundamentally deny
| their identity as such. That means giving them
| information but letting them make "bad choices" or "the
| wrong choice".
|
| Freedom means being able to make bad choices.
| bopbeepboop wrote:
| I think it's a mistake to blame porn, rather than realizing
| porn is a self-medication for people targeted by
| institutional and pervasive misandry.
|
| I understand even after several generations of men being
| abused, people aren't ready to admit man-hating is a real
| problem in modern US society. I would encourage people to
| view education statistics where men have trailed women for
| forty years -- yet receive no institutional support, while
| female-focused programs are lauded by the press. Or
| sentencing statistics, where the gap between men and women
| for the same crime is _three_ times the sentencing gap
| between whites and blacks -- something most of us recognize
| as a problem.
|
| It's the same thought process that blames video games for men
| staying home rather than assessing why they might rationally
| choose to isolate in a fictional world instead of embrace
| broader society.
| tomp wrote:
| Meh. I've been watching porn since forever. My taste in porn
| has informed my real-life taste, and vice versa (in
| particular, I detest make-up / fakeness, both in porn and in
| real life).
|
| Still, I find real people infinitely more fulfilling and have
| always put effort into seeking real relationships, sexual and
| romantic.
|
| (I estimate porn is similar to gambling - some people's
| psychology makes them more susceptible to addiction of any
| kind.)
| dQw4w9WgXcQ wrote:
| Meh. I've been going to bars since forever. I'm not like
| that guy over there who pounds a 12 pack every night and
| has no standards for what he funnels down his gullet.
| Despite my habitual usage and inability to refrain from the
| activity for any extended period of time, I estimate his
| psychology must make him the addict. For me it's a matter
| of refinement and my consciously-engaged frontal-lobe
| awareness of the fine hops and spirits that elevates me to
| a connoisseur of the boozy arts.
| serverholic wrote:
| Yes I think what is not a problem for some can be a massive
| problem for others.
| Jeff_Brown wrote:
| > [porn is] akin to drinking salt water to cure thirst.
|
| That's an exceptionally beautiful analogy.
| RangerScience wrote:
| There's a professor somewhere trying to prove that you can
| extend how long your pure water lasts by also drinking sea
| water; or something like that. Having trouble finding it
| right now.
| astrange wrote:
| Hmm, but drinking water with electrolytes (including
| moderate salt) is more refreshing than filtered water.
| robben1234 wrote:
| Porn only "fixes" loneliness if you have the feeling
| unconditionally linked to sex, which in a way is quite sad.
| zemvpferreira wrote:
| I'm sorry if that's been your experience but this
| generalisation is a bit much.
|
| I probably watch about as much porn as I do Netflix - around
| 30 minutes per day on average. I enjoy it, it's very relaxing
| and pleasureful. I'm in a committed long-term relationship of
| 3 years and have had the same habits through other 3
| relationships of about the same length. They've all had a
| full sex life and I enjoy both separately. I'm sure many
| people have the same experience.
| syops wrote:
| There's been a bit of research into the destructive aspects
| of porn watching. Porn has normalized a number of sexual
| behaviors that were not common in the past. This is
| especially so for behaviors that are degrading to the
| woman.
|
| What's interesting about your comment though is that you
| accuse OP of over generalization whilst using your singular
| anecdotal experience in what I think can best be described
| as a example of under generalization.
| pault wrote:
| To be fair, some people of all genders get their kicks
| from being sexually dominated. The issue is knowing where
| the other person's limits are and having good
| communication. This becomes a problem when people find
| discussing their sexual preferences embarrassing, even
| with their partners. My sex life improved greatly when I
| started asking my partners if they have any fantasies and
| exploring them together. Sometimes porn can help people
| discover things that they otherwise would have been too
| shy to bring up. However, If you're watching porn five
| times per day and find yourself less and less stimulated
| by IRL sex, you need a detox.
| syops wrote:
| Of course there are such people. I submit though that the
| number of women who consent to anal and like it is much
| less than the number who consent and don't like. The same
| for various other sex acts. I believe the research
| supports my position.
| JackFr wrote:
| It's possible though as a society we've lost the idea of
| a disordered desire. If you've got an authentic desire to
| be sexually dominated or to humiliate and dominate
| others, we now say "That's ok, that's your authentic
| self. It's cool as long as everything is consensual."
|
| But maybe it's not OK. Maybe it's behavior that if
| indulged keeps us from living and thriving and keeps us
| from being our best selves.
|
| I'm not making a moral argument here -- at least I don't
| think I am. Just that it might not be healthy to indulge
| every desire we may have. And when desires are far
| outside the norm, it's worth it to be circumspect about
| them.
| smichel17 wrote:
| This is basically why I prefer living in a location with
| seasons. Yes, CaliFlorida weather is nice. But I _appreciate_
| what all of the seasons have to offer so much more for the
| variation. I could do with a 25% shorter winter and summer,
| though ;)
| bayindirh wrote:
| > I could do with a 25% shorter winter and summer, though ;)
|
| I also love spring and fall, spring the most. On the other
| hand, after reading a piece about how euphoric is spring for
| nature and it's actually very tiresome for living things, I
| learned to appreciate other seasons.
|
| I'm a cool weather guy and more resistant to cold than hot
| weather, I don't dislike winter too.
| irrational wrote:
| Same here. Give me cloudy and cool over sunny and hot every
| day of the year.
| theshrike79 wrote:
| Exactly this. My #1 advice for new parents is that the most
| important thing for a parent in the long run is to make sure
| their children are bored out of their gourds regularly.
|
| Kids need to have times when screen time has run out, there's
| nothing on TV and they have no hobbies on engagements to run
| to. Just time alone without any external inputs.
|
| This is the point where creativity usually pops up. Kids should
| be able to play with anything around them.
| meristohm wrote:
| Yeah, boredom is a key, one I remember unlocking creativity
| when I was younger, and one I rarely can find anymore without
| effort (like John Cleese of Monty Python sitting in a barren
| room for four hours, 3.5 hours of boredom followed by a half-
| hour of inspired writingj[0][1].
|
| [0] Create a space to play (2min clip):
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWEXQ9E4QiI
|
| [1] Make time for boredom (36min, Swedish subtitles?):
| https://vimeo.com/176474304
| hypertele-Xii wrote:
| I wish someone made the opposite lecture to John Cleese on
| creativity; I'm stuck in open mode, an endless supply of
| ideas, struggling to turn off the faucet and actually
| _make_ something.
| colordrops wrote:
| Perhaps as you age this advice is great, and I find myself
| naturally trending towards it, but I wouldn't give up my past
| life full of titillations and jagged surprises for anything.
| It's been amazing so far.
| tux3 wrote:
| But contrast, dynamic range, is not just about chasing
| intensity.
|
| This seems to be written from the perspective that avoiding any
| thrill is necessary so that boredom may be endured.
|
| As if you should avoid fun so that you don't ever have to fear
| the lack of fun.
|
| No. Absoluty not. You can listen to loud music and still enjoy
| the quiet parts. You can have intensity & quiet, and find
| beauty in both.
|
| Severing yourself from anything exciting out of fear of missing
| the very things you're depriving yourself out of, that seems to
| me entirely misguided.
| mistahenry wrote:
| Your reading of this is rather extreme, and I feel you've
| missed the point by thinking that Russell is advocating to
| avoid fun intentionally at times so as to preserve a happy
| life. I read it as more an observation that the boring times,
| those in which there's a lack of stimulation, are an
| important part of a balanced, healthy life.
|
| A more modern take on his advice would be to avoid mindlessly
| surfing the internet every dull moment in which we are
| waiting a few minutes for some time to pass. If you haven't
| taken an extended, conscious break from the internet outside
| of your work needs (no social media, no news, etc), I
| recommend it. It was very enlightening for me to feel this
| lack of stimulation. I certainly enjoy my time on the
| internet when I'm there because I want to be there, not
| because I'm just looking for something to kill the time.
|
| Similarly, I've stopped listening to music while coding
| because I realized that the listening without mindfulness was
| killing my passion. After doing so, the passion has been
| restored.
|
| His words, too, remind me of the drug user's plight. My
| sister works in drug rehabilitation and has told me about the
| struggles many go through known as Post Acute Withdrawal
| Syndrome. From my naive understanding, these people have
| adapted to the constant, unnatural amount of dopamine flowing
| through the brains during addiction by producing more
| dopamine receptors. When the drug is gone, those receptors
| are still there. But, the body is not capable of naturally
| releasing the dopamine required to fill these receptors even
| during the highest of natural moments, leading these people
| to experience serious anhedonia -- an intense lack of
| pleasure from everyday life. It takes a long time for these
| receptors to downregulate, which is the reason for such a
| high rate of relapse for certain drug types.
|
| I think of Emerson's words a bit: "If the stars should appear
| one night in a thousand years, how would men believe and
| adore; and preserve for many generations the remembrance of
| the city of God which had been shown!"
| Jeff_Brown wrote:
| I agree, and yet I think it's important not to focus too much
| on pleasure. Not just for the sake of productivity, but for
| the sake of one's own happiness. Caring about more than
| pleasure makes it easier to be happy. The Buddha had a lot to
| say about that.
|
| Then again maybe that boils down to a mere alternate
| definition of pleasure. Newcomers to exercise find it
| painful, and that feeling never really goes away, but some
| learn to enjoy it.
| tux3 wrote:
| That's interesting, I can't claim to entirely understand
| your comment, but I'd like to read more about this :)
| failwhaleshark wrote:
| I read that book also. I believe in both modalities.
|
| I can go for days without human contact, code, "ideate"
| (sensory deprivation that leads to daydreaming, new product
| designs, and new writing ideas)... but I can't go indefinitely.
|
| I also have ADHD and need lots of stimuli to get a rush. I
| don't "party hard," but I engage in copious adult activities,
| decadent cooking, have people over to listen to blast vinyl at
| annoy-the-neighbors volume and let loose like it's the last day
| on Earth, and extreme sports.
|
| Your body may age, but never give up the joy of life. YOLADO
| (you only live and die once).
| [deleted]
| r0b05 wrote:
| This is a profound realisation that is usually preceded by
| experiencing the sickness and suffering that comes with
| unrestrained desire. How it takes over one's discriminating
| faculties until one becomes blind to everyday beauty.
|
| I cannot recommend meditation enough to train the mind to stay
| calm when desires want to run rampant. No mantras or music,
| just sit in silence and boredom. Thoughts will come and go and
| eventually you will learn to cope with yourself.
| TuringNYC wrote:
| Mindfulness came to mind for me specifically. I used to jump
| from work to coffee meetings to fancy restaurant dinners out
| with both clients and friends to meet-ups at NY's Meatpacking
| District...to deeply enjoying the feeling of just sitting in
| a nature preserve, smelling sap, listening to birds, and
| breathing in the entire environment. (a benefit of taking a
| job in the burbs.)
|
| Before the lockdown, I did an experiment where I either
| walked (through a forest path) to work everyday or biked
| leisurely to work (also thru a forest path.) [I realize
| having the ability to do that is itself a blessing.] In
| winters, the walk was difficult (ice, elements, frozen mud)
| but it came to a point where the morning and evening
| "commutes" were the best part of my day. I would even take
| detours to more remote benches to clear my mind.
|
| I was incredibly productive at work throughout this 18month
| experiment, until lockdown.
|
| I captured some of this on Strava if anyone is curious:
| https://www.strava.com/activities/3211639111
| swayvil wrote:
| The subject of meditation is what cropped up first in my mind
| too.
|
| That dimension of exploration addresses this quite directly.
| dctoedt wrote:
| How long did it take you to notice that meditation made a
| difference?
| bayindirh wrote:
| > I cannot recommend meditation enough to train the mind to
| stay calm...
|
| Actually came here to just say that. After reading the piece
| and just trying to sit tight, I was pleasantly surprised how
| meditation changed me over the years, in a good way.
|
| My path also has no mantras or music. Just inner reflection.
| Sometimes things got tough, but it transformed me dearly.
| yboris wrote:
| The principal author of this paper, Timothy D. Wilson has done
| some awesome research. I can highly recommend his book _Strangers
| to Ourselves: Discovering the Adaptive Unconscious_. I found it
| it be very illuminating and even useful for understanding others
| and myself better.
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Strangers-to-Ourselves-audiobook/dp/B...
| greyface- wrote:
| The paper: https://wjh-
| www.harvard.edu/~dtg/WILSON%20ET%20AL%202014.pdf
| elric wrote:
| Our society isn't exactly set up for "doing nothing", either. If
| you're just sitting somewhere without doing anything, you might
| be loitering, you'll start getting funny looks if this goes on
| for extended periods of time.
|
| On the other hand, if you're sitting somewhere and you're
| smoking, or reading, none of that seems to happen. I wonder if
| we're uncomfortable with other people's ability to do _nothing_.
| theonemind wrote:
| Funny looks don't bother me too much, but someone is bound to
| ask if you're okay. Depending on the level of foot traffic,
| possibly several someones.
| Jeff_Brown wrote:
| In 2002, on my way to work in I think Berkeley (definitely
| somewhere in the Bay Area), I noticed some beautiful echoes in
| the subway station, and I stopped walking, stood still, and
| listened. A staff member walked up and asked if I was okay. I
| said yes. Maybe I explained what I was doing, I don't remember.
| A few minutes later three paramedics appeared, forcibly
| strapped me to a gurney, and took me to a hospital.
|
| I protested, of course. They were clearly not being paid to
| listen to me.
| is_true wrote:
| That's exactly what people about to commit suicide do.
| Jeff_Brown wrote:
| That's interesting. In any old place? I wasn't anywhere
| near the tracks; I was in a big underground space on my way
| out.
|
| I wasn't suicidal, but I was definitely unhappy that year.
| I don't know to what extent that showed. It may have been
| later in life that I developed my habitual friendliness
| with strangers.
|
| I do remember deciding shortly after that to learn to fear
| other peoples' potential fears. It's a pain in the ass, but
| optimal, I think.
| im3w1l wrote:
| How long were you in the subway station listening? What
| happened at the hospital? And did you get a bill?
| Jeff_Brown wrote:
| Good questions. I imagine listened somewhere between one
| and ten minutes. At the hospital I remember nothing except
| that my arm was tied to a bar above my head for long enough
| that it hurt, and I had to plead to get them to restrain me
| some other way. I don't know whether I received a bill.
| Neither does my mom, who probably would have paid for it,
| as I was making peanuts.
|
| I wish I'd kept a diary. (I actually did a lot of writing
| that year, but it was of the creative sort. I held onto a
| box full of it for years. I went through it once and
| thought it was dumb, but kept it still. The second time I
| did that, years later, I confirmed my earlier judgment and
| decided it wasn't worth keeping.)
| [deleted]
| pope_meat wrote:
| ...so, you're telling me that in these united states of
| america a bunch of goons took you by force and detained you
| from continuing your day for the crime of ... standing and
| listening to the sounds around you?
|
| I would burn half the city to the ground after getting out
| for that bullshit, at least they'd have a valid reason to
| commit me then.
|
| The idea that you could be hurting no one and be snatched up
| and taken somewhere against your will is extremely upsetting
| to me.
| Jeff_Brown wrote:
| I was quite upset. Looking back I'm surprised I didn't seek
| damages in court. But that was before cell phones were
| ubiquitous, and I was in a new town where I didn't know
| basically anyone but my mom, and I don't have a
| photographic memory for faces. I felt powerless. Indeed, I
| believe I was.
| dempseye wrote:
| Is this a joke or did it happen?
| Jeff_Brown wrote:
| It happened.
|
| (BTW you know you can look through a commenter's history on
| HN to see if an interpretation of something they wrote is
| consistent with their character.)
| kwhitefoot wrote:
| Without more context and the ability to verify this I have to
| assume that you made it up. The event is too extreme to stand
| without corroboration; at least it would be where I live.
| carapace wrote:
| I was once crossing the Golden Gate Bridge on foot and
| about halfway across the view of the bay was so beautiful
| that I had to stop and drink it in. (Have you heard the
| phrase "arresting beauty" or "arrested by beauty"? That's
| how it was: I was captivated. It was just so beautiful!)
|
| Anyway, after maybe ten minutes a bicycle police officer
| came up and started talking to me. It took me a moment to
| realize that he was sounding me out for emotional distress,
| checking to see if I was suicidal. I gave him my best smile
| (easy enough as I was still in the thrall of beauty) and
| reassured him emphatically that I was okay, and thanked him
| for doing his (IMO very important) job and apologized for
| making him come out and check on me (no good reason not to
| be extra nice in the circs, eh?) and went on my way.
|
| I'm not blaming the OP for getting, uh, overbearing and
| unneeded help. I'm pointing out that our society has
| developed mechanisms to try to prevent suicide in the
| obvious places: GGB and BART (the "subway" in Berkeley.)
|
| > The Golden Gate Bridge is the most used suicide site in
| the world.
|
| > After years of debate and an estimated more than 1,500
| deaths, suicide barriers, consisting of a stainless steel
| net extending 20 feet from the bridge and supported by
| structural steel 20 feet under the walkway, began to be
| installed in April 2017.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Gate_Bridge#Suicides
| treis wrote:
| >"All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit
| quietly in a room alone."
|
| From a philosopher writing in the 1600s. I don't think it's an
| issue with any particular society. It just seems part of human
| nature to be inable to sit and do nothing for a significant
| period of time.
| MeinBlutIstBlau wrote:
| I for one would love to be a bohemian layabout all day doing
| nothing. Like a cat staring out a window listlessly wasting
| the clock.
| hypertele-Xii wrote:
| There's a reason humans have conquered the world and cats
| are our pets.
| tfigueroa wrote:
| In their wisdom, they decided to leave the conquest to
| these curious bipeds, so they could relax in the sun and
| watch time drift by...
| IncRnd wrote:
| It is not part of human nature. It does happen when a person
| has a restless mind, however.
|
| How would you test this? The first way is direct: learn to
| quiet your own mind. The second way is through inference:
| observe a newborn baby who doesn't need food and when there
| isn't excessive stimulation (light sound, smell, pain, etc.)
| - they simply observe what is around them.
| treis wrote:
| Because that's all a new born baby can do (and often
| they're not happy about it). As soon as they're mobile they
| will interact with their environment whenever they can.
| IncRnd wrote:
| When a baby isn't happy, they will let you know that,
| regardless of whether some adults believe that most
| babies are unhappy.
| hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
| "All men's miseries derive from not being able to sit in a quiet
| room alone." - Blaise Pascal
|
| https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/blaise_pascal_133380
| lurkmurk wrote:
| "There are two types of quotable quotes, those that deal in
| absolutes, and those that divide people into two groups."
| gverrilla wrote:
| is that even a real quote? couldn't find a source in a google,
| except for quoting sites without sources. doesn't sound like
| the pascal I've read on the Pensees at all, but maybe I'm wrong
| I know for sure Shakespeare and Einstein have a lot of fake
| quotes atributed to them, and also Chaplin
| grouphugs wrote:
| nope
| forgotmypw17 wrote:
| I think the headline is misleading. This study is about people's
| preferences and comfort, not what's "better" for them.
|
| (In my personal experience, breaking through the discomfort of
| "doing nothing" has been subjectively better and rewarding.)
| brianjlogan wrote:
| Curious if the study would have the same results today with the
| prevalence of Mindfulness meditation. Perhaps it's my
| predisposition since I've googled for it. But I see
| advertisements for Calm and Headspace. I think even on TV. I see
| "Mindfulness" centers, physical places to take classes and
| meditate. A whole commercial market has taken hold of this new
| interest of fighting back the confusion of modern life.
|
| My trouble with advertising these aids, is that perhaps people
| will be attached to them. For me the main thing that makes me
| enjoy meditation is that no matter what if I have the discipline
| I can do it. If I lose my limbs, if I have constant pain, if I'm
| unhappy, if I lose my family. All the awfulness of life can at
| the very least while I'm living not take away my inner peace. I
| can feel and observe the river of life without being swept away
| by it. I have a "comfortable" sense of security in my existence.
|
| Coming back to the article. Having been through those experiences
| I would very much choose to be alone with my thoughts. I am
| literally trying to find time every day. Especially over electric
| shock haha.
| ChrisLTD wrote:
| As someone that has regularly meditated for years now, I still
| wouldn't say sitting alone with nothing to do is an enjoyable
| experience. You can turn it into an opportunity for meditation
| or other types of deep thinking, but that's more like "work"
| than anything else.
| brianjlogan wrote:
| Yeah that "enjoyable" state is kind of difficult to describe.
| My experience may be different than yours but for me it's an
| emptiness of being in tranquility with the chaos of my own
| thoughts. Only with deliberate practice. To me "work" does
| not mean suffering but directed concentration and discipline.
| If I accept my mistakes and imperfectness of that "work" the
| process to me is "enjoyable". But the "joy" is difficult here
| because it's not really that exact emotion.
| kahmeal wrote:
| Perhaps satisfaction and contentment are more accurate?
| Jeff_Brown wrote:
| Meditation can occupy a unique space between work and play.
| One of the goals of meditation can be an experience beyond,
| or at least parallel to, goal-awareness.
|
| I say "can be" because there are multiple kinds of
| meditation. A famous meditation researcher whose name I've
| forgotten lists three: focused, wandering, and empathic. (I'm
| not sure those are the canonical terms for them.) Wandering
| is my favorite.
| plutonorm wrote:
| Aim to get into a jhana, it's a real state of being and quite
| wonderful.
| pessimizer wrote:
| This study doesn't make much sense. If the question is whether
| people would rather study and interact with the world or just
| ruminate and narcissisticly contemplate their own thoughts, the
| answer should be obvious, unless you've met anyone who enjoys the
| idea of being buried alive. I bet fitness people would be fine
| with this short-term solitary confinement, because they're at
| least entertained by their own bodies.
| [deleted]
| elliekelly wrote:
| Do you find meditation "narcissistic"?
| ______- wrote:
| > The investigation found that most would rather be doing
| something - possibly even hurting themselves - than doing nothing
| or sitting alone with their thoughts
|
| This brings up an old saying I learned years ago:
| If you're going to do nothing, don't do it here
|
| Meditation is being active doing nothing. It's paradoxical, just
| like Zen koans are paradoxical. I don't meditate in the cross
| legged position however, and drift in and out of meditation doing
| everyday humdrum things like waiting for a bus to arrive, or my
| favorite: pretending to sleep, so I can actually fall asleep.
| Each preamble before sleep is itself meditation, and we can find
| ourselves meditating doing humdrum things like washing the
| dishes. You don't need to go to a monastery or wellness center to
| meditate. We are natural meditators!
| Jeff_Brown wrote:
| Switching on a podcast comes even more naturally to me. It's
| like I've outsourced a big fraction of my thinking. It's
| simultaneously delicious and repulsive.
| dang wrote:
| https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/03/22/stand-there/
| kilodeca wrote:
| Is that even a question?
| [deleted]
| bravura wrote:
| Isn't this just confirmation bias? The sort of journalist who
| would publish work on this sort of scientist's publications, they
| both seem like the types of people who rather publish than do
| nothing.
| UbrtrbNchDneRle wrote:
| As someone with ADHD, I would love experiencing a motivational
| impulse idling. I can literally sit around and daydream all day.
| Maybe daydreaming is the wrong word... I can chase a dopamine
| trail through my mind all day, it's only living in fantasy by
| accident. Overall destructive, but at least not _painful_ (for
| perspective: Putting on pants in the morning often is an act of
| willpower for people with ADHD; you may not relate).
| Alternatively, my brain falls back on utilizing anxiety to
| autogenerate direction /dopamine. My hell are repetitive, inert
| tasks, which require just enough attention to not allow wandering
| off; worse, if the context doesn't allow for me to reframe the
| situation somehow entertaining (e.g. being playful about it,
| constructing challenges, makes things aesthetically pleasing). An
| early uncanny valley of subjective engagement. Working as a
| supermarket cashier would hurt me. But also requirements like
| reading the didactically praised textbooks, which make me suffer
| through the author's analogies and associations, denying me my
| own mind's side gig. Pay me like shit, but please feed me a
| challenge or new impression once a day; I can't do what "everyone
| can do" - I'd rather idle and take another loan on
| accomplishment.
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