[HN Gopher] May 2021 Coordinated Inauthentic Behavior Report
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       May 2021 Coordinated Inauthentic Behavior Report
        
       Author : rainhacker
       Score  : 56 points
       Date   : 2021-06-12 16:38 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (about.fb.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (about.fb.com)
        
       | skeeter2020 wrote:
       | "Coordinated Inauthentic Behavior"
       | 
       | Guess this sounds better than saying you've got a Fake News
       | problem.
        
       | ddtaylor wrote:
       | Props to whatever group is getting paid to remove 4 accounts from
       | the platform a day.
        
       | neilv wrote:
       | I'd like a clarification on the two tiers...
       | 
       | > _We view CIB as coordinated efforts to manipulate public debate
       | for a strategic goal where fake accounts are central to the
       | operation. There are two tiers of these activities that we work
       | to stop: 1) coordinated inauthentic behavior in the context of
       | domestic, non-government campaigns and 2) coordinated inauthentic
       | behavior on behalf of a foreign or government actor._
       | 
       | Is this "foreign" and "domestic" relative to the US?
       | 
       | Or relative to the affiliations of those who are the direct
       | audience of the CIB?
       | 
       | Or relative to the nations/affiliations of those who are the
       | target to affect through the perceptions of the direct audience
       | of the CIB?
       | 
       | Or...?
       | 
       | Understanding this top level clearly might help understand
       | everything that follows.
        
         | tchalla wrote:
         | I almost always assume "foreign" and "domestic" is relative to
         | the US unless stated otherwise. There's typically very little
         | attempt to be inclusive.
        
       | baybal2 wrote:
       | 1. The matter behind the first item on the report:
       | https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/sudan-general-military-...
        
       | inigojonesguy wrote:
       | Coordinated Inauthentic Behavior, good name for a band.
        
       | layoutIfNeeded wrote:
       | Coordinated Inauthentic Behavior. Lol! From the title I thought
       | it was about some online flashmob where people look at unusual
       | stuff for a day to pollute Facebook's targeting data.
        
         | squiggleblaz wrote:
         | Why? From the title, I thought it was a report on a specific
         | event of semi-state action intended to manipulate public
         | opinion for private benefit. It seems CIB is actually for non-
         | state actors, with state actors called Foreign/Government
         | Interference, and this was just a regular monthly report rather
         | than a report triggered by an event.
         | 
         | "Looking at unusual stuff for a day" sounds like authentic
         | action to me. People often do weird things. "Inauthentic
         | action" is a pretty common term to refer to times when people
         | use tools to make something look more popular than it is by
         | faking action - it's inauthentic because an event which should
         | reflect an action (i.e. computer activity which should be
         | triggered by direct human action) doesn't (i.e. it is computer
         | activity which wasn't triggered by direct human action, so it's
         | not an authentic action).
        
       | MaysonL wrote:
       | I wonder, have Facebook ever removed Ben Shapiro's inauthentic
       | accounts?[0]
       | 
       | [0] https://popular.info/p/facebook-admits-ben-shapiro-is-
       | breaki...
        
       | zanethomas wrote:
       | fakebook, who cares?
        
       | jjulius wrote:
       | Perhaps I'm speaking from a place of ignorance, but 123 accounts
       | seems like a surprisingly low number.
        
         | sp332 wrote:
         | It says the accounts have to be central to the operation to be
         | counted here. Accounts that just repeat
         | disinformation/misinformation from other places, or inflate
         | like counts, aren't included.
        
           | jjulius wrote:
           | >It says the accounts have to be central to the operation to
           | be counted here.
           | 
           | Ah ha, I missed that nugget. That said, I'm still surprised
           | that, globally, that number is so low.
           | 
           | >Accounts that just repeat disinformation/misinformation from
           | other places, or inflate like counts, aren't included
           | 
           | Does FB ever make such information available publicly?
        
             | varjag wrote:
             | The number have to be limited because even most state
             | actors have limited manpower to operate trendsetting
             | accounts.
        
             | NegativeLatency wrote:
             | I wouldn't expect so, they have nothing to gain form it.
        
             | KittenInABox wrote:
             | I'm not surprised the number is so low. Isn't it the case
             | that only 1% of people cause 99% of the content or
             | something? It'd be only a small number of core
             | intentionally malicious actors could cause other people to
             | follow along in good faith, especially in today's social
             | media pressure to speak on controversies.
        
           | skeeter2020 wrote:
           | Which to me sounds like they remove the malfunctioning alarm
           | after it's been rebroadcast to a huge audience. FB is
           | addressing a distribution problem by purposely treating it as
           | a sourcing problem. They're preapred to remove dozens of
           | accounts but not reduce the millions of shares.
        
         | na85 wrote:
         | It is imperative for Facebook to make their platform seem
         | trustworthy.
         | 
         | Do you trust that Facebook is reporting these numbers in good
         | faith?
         | 
         | This is the same company that ran unethical psychological
         | experiments on its users, without their consent, in attempts to
         | cause depression-like-symptoms.
        
           | jjulius wrote:
           | I unequivocally do not trust them, hence my bringing it up.
           | :)
        
           | alisonkisk wrote:
           | That's a misrepresentation.
        
             | spoonjim wrote:
             | What part of it is a misrepresentation? Just because it
             | sounds beyond the pale doesn't mean it's a
             | misrepresentation; the action it describes could be (is)
             | beyond the pale.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | rhizome wrote:
           | An image of trustworthiness is much more important to them
           | than actually being trustworthy. For them to be actual-
           | trustworthy to the maximum number of people/accounts would
           | involve a level of imagination and remodeling that I don't
           | think they're capable of. Because it's a hard problem made
           | worse by scale.
        
             | na85 wrote:
             | Indeed that's why I wrote that it's imperative for Facebook
             | to make their platform _seem_ trustworthy.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | wyldfire wrote:
         | It does, but is the interval that they did that work only
         | during May 2021?
         | 
         | I think this summary page is pretty pithy but then I read the
         | report and it's not too detailed either.
         | 
         | I was optimistic to see such a report being published by FB but
         | now I wonder if this effort is adequately resourced.
        
       | jacobwilliamroy wrote:
       | I think it's more harmful to keep insisting that a public forum
       | where ANYONE can make an account and start posting is a place to
       | find truth. It just legitimizes the misinformation campaigns
       | which manage to slip through. Plus there aren't enough bodies at
       | facebook to actually moderate the amount of data they receive.
       | 
       | Conversely, Wikipedia, despite all its bureacracy, policies and
       | mechanisms still publishes a general disclaimer: "WIKIPEDIA MAKES
       | NO GUARANTEE OF VALIDITY."
       | 
       | I really think the management at Facebook should give up on
       | trying to become a source of truth, because they don't have the
       | resources to publish accurate information and doing so is
       | ultimately incompatible with their business model.
        
         | the-dude wrote:
         | > they don't have the resources to publish accurate information
         | and doing so is ultimately incompatible with their business
         | model.
         | 
         | Advertisers will demand not be shown alongside info which is
         | 'inaccurate'.
        
           | geofft wrote:
           | Exactly.
           | 
           | Consider that Facebook has entire teams of people dedicated
           | to figuring out what behavior is compatible with their
           | business model, and they also have more direct data about
           | where revenue comes from than any of us here do (at least
           | those of us not bound by a Facebook NDA!). There's probably a
           | PM whose entire job is just putting together _these reports_
           | and they 're getting a Facebook salary for doing so. It's
           | definitely possible they're all misguided, but they're a very
           | successful company and they've probably considered the
           | tradeoffs of investing in these efforts versus not.
           | 
           | Also, consider that e.g. 4chan is making nowhere near as much
           | revenue as Facebook, despite also providing a forum for
           | people to post things and selling ads next to those posts.
        
             | jacobwilliamroy wrote:
             | It's just a game. Someone at Facebook is trying to min/max
             | the numbers to get as much money as possible. It's just
             | plain to see that one of the consequences of winning this
             | dumb game is that they are completely destroying the
             | concept of truth with one hand while insisting with the
             | other that they are publishing the truth. That's the
             | optimal strategy to make the most money, but all the money
             | in the world isn't worth destroying trust in information.
        
               | geofft wrote:
               | Sure - "stop doing this because, despite being
               | profitable, it's bad for society" is an entirely
               | reasonable take. (Though perhaps one should figure out
               | how to incentivize that action.) "Stop doing this because
               | it's not profitable," from an outsider, doesn't make
               | sense.
        
           | jacobwilliamroy wrote:
           | I checked out other "free speech" sites which regularly
           | publish misinformation and lies (yet still insist that they
           | are publishing the truth) and they still have ads. Breitbart,
           | Newsmax. Alex Jones infowars platform primarily exists to
           | sell supplements. Even Coast to Coast AM, the ghosts and
           | goblins show, still runs ads.
           | 
           | Plus you have to consider that there is big money to be made
           | lying to the public. For instance the Koch brothers spend a
           | pretty penny funding climate denial.
        
           | wolverine876 wrote:
           | > Advertisers will demand not be shown alongside info which
           | is 'inaccurate'.
           | 
           | I find that unlikely: Facebook has an enormous amount of dis-
           | and mis-information, and an enormous amount of advertising.
           | Have you noticed that Facebook pages with inaccurate
           | information lack advertising?
           | 
           | In regard to immediate revenue, advertisers just don't want
           | to be embarrassed.
        
         | rossdavidh wrote:
         | I agree that FB is trying to sweep back the tide, here. But
         | they probably think they have to at least pretend to be making
         | efforts to sweep back the tide. They don't want to go the way
         | of Yelp, where the reviews were not only inaccurate and gamed,
         | but so obviously and widely known to be inaccurate and gamed
         | that the average internet user avoided them. A pretense of
         | authenticity is what they're shooting for.
         | 
         | Now, whether even that is in the long run tenable is an open
         | question, but at least they think it might be.
        
           | mrfusion wrote:
           | Why is yelp still around?
        
             | kortilla wrote:
             | Integration into Apple Maps.
        
           | jacobwilliamroy wrote:
           | In the United States, success is typically measured
           | quarterly, thus it is pretty easy for someone or a group of
           | someones to try and create a very quick sort of growth which
           | is simultaneously impressive and unsustainable. Just keep
           | pumping the pig until it explodes, then move on to the next
           | job. It happens all the time. I wouldn't be surprised if it
           | was happening at Facebook too.
        
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       (page generated 2021-06-12 23:02 UTC)