[HN Gopher] Fully Remote: Home Office Should Not Be a Financial ...
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Fully Remote: Home Office Should Not Be a Financial Burden on
Employees
Author : walterbell
Score : 38 points
Date : 2021-06-11 09:24 UTC (13 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.replicated.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.replicated.com)
| karmakaze wrote:
| Does anyone know of a good whiteboarding solution?
|
| I'm imagining an iPad app for a webapp so those with iPads can
| draw on the board and everyone else can watch, write, and
| converse.
| tolstoshev wrote:
| Check out these guys: https://www.coscreen.co/
| domano wrote:
| I love Miro https://www.miro.com
| collsni wrote:
| I was about to b** and then realized that my employer provided me
| literally everything in this article. Yeah it would suck to only
| have a laptop provided. Parts of the office space, ie desk room
| and chair should be provided by the employee. Essential things
| which handle business operations should be provided by the
| employer, ie laptop screens, mouse, etc..
| howderek wrote:
| Why shouldn't a chair be provided by the employer? Chairs are
| ergonomically important and leaving it up to employees could
| lead to work injuries if they choose cheap chairs.
| birdyrooster wrote:
| The chair and desk seem like the employer should handle that
| for environmental health and safety.
| indemnity wrote:
| What happens when you quit?
|
| I'm ok paying for that myself, my employer wouldn't spring
| for the Aeron and adjustable standing desk I have anyway.
| mac01021 wrote:
| I work on my company-issued laptop.
|
| I do it sitting on my couch that I already had anyway,
|
| or at my kitchen table that I already had,
|
| or in my car that I already had,
|
| or in the public library where I can go for free,
|
| or in the shade of a tree on top of a hill kept as open space by
| the town where I live.
|
| Clearly, there is nothing much that I could be reimbursed for. So
| my question is, why are so many people so different from me in
| this respect?
| faxmeyourcode wrote:
| A good standing desk, a good chair, 2 or 3 other monitors.
| These are all standard at my office, but I had to give them up
| working from home. Total investment if I would have replicated
| my office environment would have been 2 to 4 thousand USD
| easily.
| tolbish wrote:
| Why didn't you take those monitors home with you? Wouldn't
| they otherwise go sitting unused at the office?
| sleepybrett wrote:
| My current employer tuned a couple of our current benefits to
| more remote appropriate when the pandemic hit. Our commuter
| benefit was turned into a home office equipment benefit and
| another heath and wellness spending benefit got expanded to
| cover homeoffice stuff as well.
| ctvo wrote:
| It's great you're able to do your work with only a laptop. Many
| of us require a few more things, since we spend 6+ hours a day
| working, like a quality monitor, desk and chair.
|
| Not only that, since we share our space with others (roommates,
| significant other, children), we may need a dedicated space to
| not be disturbed.
|
| So my question is why is the above difficult to understand?
| chrisseaton wrote:
| Don't you have a home office anyway with a monitor, desk, and
| chair for normal life things?
|
| For managing your finances, writing to people, planning
| projects, working on hobbies, and so on?
| UncleMeat wrote:
| When I lived in a 1BR with my partner, there was no space
| for a monitor, desk, and chair. We did all computing on our
| laptops. My experience with most people who lived in the
| bay area or nyc prior to the pandemic was that they
| definitely did not have a dedicated space for a desktop
| setup.
| Jyaif wrote:
| Having a "home office" is not common for people that live
| in apartments in cities with a high cost of living.
| jlokier wrote:
| What you're describing sounds luxurious, but perhaps you
| mean just the basics, a corner in a room.
|
| Often when people say home office they mean a dedicated
| room, and that's not available to a lot of people. I've
| wanted a home office for years, as in a small dedicated
| room, but not lived in a home with enough free space.
|
| Right now I do have a setup like you've described due to
| pandemic lockdown - but it's right next to my bed. I don't
| like the commute, it's too short, and it's not much of a
| thinking space.
|
| It has not been realistic to work on my preferred non-
| software hobbies for a long time, as I need decent bench
| space, ventilation, and to be fair to the neighbours, no
| neighbours. But I like cities and people too much to want
| to live in the middle of nowhere.
|
| I'm a pacer in better times. I look at pictures of big
| spaces like the empty Apple building and just imagine
| walking around all day while doing my thinking occasionally
| stopping at a desk to break out the laptop. If they ever
| solve programming while walking I'll be excited to be at
| the head of the queue.
|
| Before the pandemic I tended to work in libraries and
| coffee shops, except when working with local clients on
| their projects, then I'd use their facilities. Interesting
| labs and workshops, I like those.
|
| I'm tentatively excited though. I just agreed to a real
| small office rental. Where I live these are surprisingly
| rare. I'm looking forward to doing my work, my hobbies and
| my finances there, instead of at home. I'm looking forward
| to a decent, private thinking space, where I can write on
| my own whiteboard. Living the dream! Maybe I'll even start
| writing to people.
| derekp7 wrote:
| I'm actually surprised by the number of people I work with
| that only work off their company-issued laptop (when
| remote). For myself, I've always had a dedicated office
| space. But when I went full WFH after a couple weeks my
| back was hurting bad. I thought my chair was decent but it
| was a sub $100 chair from Walmart or OfficeMax or similar.
| Upgraded to a SteelCase chair ($700), and my back has never
| felt better.
| wpm wrote:
| I couldn't do my work on a laptop in a car.
|
| I don't even like to eat in a car.
|
| I deal with confidential materials I doubt I'd want to work on
| in a place like the library, and need very high speed Internet
| to be productive.
|
| I need a separate space for work otherwise I very quickly
| devolve into depressing "work from bed" scenarios and end up
| working all day. I need a place that clearly signals "work" and
| "not work". I'd never want to infect my kitchen with work
| bullshit. That's my happy place.
| UncleMeat wrote:
| > So my question is, why are so many people so different from
| me in this respect?
|
| Ergonomics are important. Working from my couch on a laptop
| would destroy my hands.
|
| There are other people in my house that need to access the
| couch and kitchen table. Working from these locations
| interferes with their lives.
|
| There is no wifi on top of the hill.
| rightisleft wrote:
| This is great. Work-from-home is a huge cost of living increase
| that workers need to be compensated for.
|
| Also, The US tax code needs to bring back the home office
| deduction for W2 Employees.
| grillvogel wrote:
| >huge cost of living increase that workers need to be
| compensated for.
|
| what is the huge cost of living increase here? i dont have to
| pay for gas/bus pass anymore, overpriced parking, overpriced
| food, overpriced coffee. i had a 1 time cost to buy a nice
| monitor and peripherals but this benefits me as well.
| rightisleft wrote:
| An extra bedroom for a home office in NYC is a significant
| cost. For a median priced apartment in Brooklyn that will
| easily be $15-20K extra a year.
|
| For people in cheaper cities it might be less of a burden.
| domano wrote:
| Heating, electricity, furniture, maybe a seperate room,
| internet.
| retrac wrote:
| It's worse the poorer you already are on average, I figure.
| My cousin was switched to WFH and she had no where quiet to
| work. Always someone shouting or kids playing too loud.
| Fixing that sort of issue is not easy when cash strapped. If
| WFH becomes obligatory there will be some who will have no
| where to work, in the sense of office space. Seems like a
| potential poverty trap.
| treeman79 wrote:
| Not disagreeing, but there is also a drastic cost reduction
| from less commuting.
|
| Now I'm also in a state where a 5 bedroom house costs less then
| a studio in SF. So home space isn't a big concern.
| colinb wrote:
| When WFH I would like to have a good external display for my
| laptop. Ditto mouse and keyboard. I would like to be
| comfortably warm in winter. Being cool enough in the summer is
| just a matter of opening windows where I live. I would like a
| decent desk and chair, or standing desk etc. These all cost
| money. At the moment some of this is born by my employer and
| some by me. If WFH lasts as a widely available option for
| several years I expect that the balance of who pays for what
| may change. Of the costs I listed, heating is by far the
| biggest deal for me - I live in an old, hard-to-keep-warm
| house.
|
| But... WFH also brings savings. I used to spend significant
| amounts of money commuting, which is funny given how much I
| hated every second of it. That money stays in my pocket now. I
| know that the option of bringing lunch with me every day was
| always present, but it is the case that I eat a lot more home
| prepared food now my office is in the same building as my
| fridge, so I certainly save a bundle there.
|
| Where I live, there is some provision in the tax code for WFH
| expenses, but really its so small that it might as well not
| exist.
|
| What my point in all this? It is that I don't think the issue
| is nearly as clear cut as you make it out to be. Maybe WFH is a
| cost of living increase. Maybe it's a saving. Which depends on
| the nature of your work, the distance you used to travel, the
| size of cost of your living space and a host of other factors.
| suifbwish wrote:
| Why does everyone seemed so concerned about home offices being
| paid for by employees when they weren't paid for the gas, car
| repairs or the time spent commuting to work before that?
| retrac wrote:
| Well, in a very hot labour market in a big city, you will
| actually have to pay more for workers if you're far enough
| that people can't take transit conveniently. That means they
| have to buy a car, and drive it every day, so why take the
| job paying effectively less? In a sense, the market already
| is accounting for things like the cost of gas, somewhat.
| It'll be true for WFH as well.
|
| Other than that, in general, previous wages were negotiated
| with the old work-in-the-office dynamic. Now that the terms
| have changed considerably, it seems only natural to ensure
| one isn't getting the short end of the stick under the new
| contract. At the very least run the numbers and make sure you
| break even?
| bakuninsbart wrote:
| We lost that discussion before it even began: It was just the
| standard everywhere, so it was hard for a particular group of
| employees to change it, especially considering the state and
| priorities of unions.
|
| Now this is a new development, a new discussion. Workers in
| tech actually have leverage, so it is a good time and
| situation to advocate for better rights.
| thrower123 wrote:
| I dunno, I save somewhere between $500 and $1000 a month by
| working remote. Going back to the office is going to suck.
| arkitaip wrote:
| How long before employers start renting WeWork-alike spaces for
| their employees only to realize that they could cut out the
| middle men and run their own office spaces...
| mattowen_uk wrote:
| Some of the UK Banks are already there. They've started
| exploring the deployment of smaller office spaces that are
| nearer where clusters of their staff live. In fact you could
| almost call the concept a 'branch office'...
|
| ... oh wait, that's exactly what all the Banks have spent the
| last 10 years closing down.
| Macha wrote:
| Well technically the branch office is about being near their
| customers rather than near their staff.
|
| So soon we should go from these near staff offices to also
| having them accept customers and considering that in
| locations, and then we'll be full circle.
| anpago wrote:
| The major concern for both parties is not just the short to mid
| term cost of equipment and space. It's the long term liability if
| the employee gets rsi or major Musculoskeletal pain or indeed
| eyesight issues etc.
|
| I know our health and safety manager expects it is going to be a
| big issue in years to come. While he cares for human beings those
| around him are all for the "online training course on WFH best
| practices". To make the person digitally sign they watched and
| understood. Also known as give the employer some defence for
| later claims..
|
| Offering people items from the existing offices which most people
| simply can't fit in their homes. But again being noted so when
| people complain... Same is being done by offering people to go in
| to office.
|
| Those hours crouched over a laptop or sat on a seat with little
| support won't hurt straight away.
|
| Plenty will on here have a nice home office and chair with good
| lighting. But plenty in many "office" jobs won't and can't
| justify.
|
| It won't be those who had a physical job we see in older age
| hobbling around in the future..
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(page generated 2021-06-11 23:02 UTC)