[HN Gopher] The Colors We Share [video]
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       The Colors We Share [video]
        
       Author : brudgers
       Score  : 54 points
       Date   : 2021-06-10 02:32 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.youtube.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.youtube.com)
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | Pantone patented our skin colors?
        
         | neom wrote:
         | You can't patent a colour, you patent a process. If you're
         | referring to the R next to Pantone, the R is because Pantone is
         | a company and the wordmark Pantone is a registered trademark.
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | They sure know how to make it look like they own these
           | colors, though.
        
             | rjmunro wrote:
             | No, they own the Pantone numbers. They don't own the
             | colours themselves.
        
       | antattack wrote:
       | I so dislike sites that make shipping so hard to find.
       | 
       | If you want to order the book, shipping options are:
       | USPS Media Mail: $2.89          UPS 3 Day Select: $22.25
       | UPS Ground: $11.20          UPS Next Day Air Dom: $45.93
        
         | eco wrote:
         | My prices on the UPS options are about double yours (USPS is
         | the same). I'm in the Salt Lake metro area.
         | UPS 3 Day Select: $49.19          UPS Ground: $20.85
         | UPS Next Day Air Dom: $118.86
         | 
         | Every time I ship something it seems like it is priced about
         | the same as these options. How do individuals (and this
         | company) unlock those magical shipping rates you get from other
         | businesses without which they'd be dead in the water as a
         | business?
        
           | 83 wrote:
           | Commercial accounts get significantly better rates, I've seen
           | at least one startup whose business model is passing along
           | the commercial rate to consumers for a small cut of the
           | savings (my quick search is only finding pirateship.com but
           | that's not who I was thinking of). Similar thing happens on
           | Ebay when you do your shipping label through them (not sure
           | if they're actually taking a cut or just passing on their
           | better rate though).
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | geocar wrote:
         | DHL to Portugal: $137.71
         | 
         | Anyone have any idea why shipping 22 pieces of dead tree is so
         | freaking expensive?
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | neom wrote:
           | re-shippers rates are usually a lot cheaper, just a quick
           | look around seemed it was about $30 to forward a package that
           | is less than 1lb to Portugal.
        
       | Grustaf wrote:
       | The photos are nice, but the ones that talk about "skin color"
       | are usually "anti-racists".
       | 
       | Actual racists, to the extent that they care about biological
       | race, are interested in the entire phenotype, the statistical
       | groupings of traits like hair color, eye color, facial features,
       | head shape, length, body structure and yes, also skin color.
       | 
       | Africa is full of tribes with similar skin colors that are only
       | very remotely related, often more genetically diverse than
       | Russians and Basques. (There are of course also lots of
       | _different_ skin colors in Africa!) Calling them all "Black" is
       | just reductionist and frankly racist.
        
         | SamBam wrote:
         | The book in the post explicitly makes that point. It shows
         | multiple people who might be labeled different races with the
         | exact same skin color, for instance.
         | 
         | It's making the point that skin color is far more diverse than
         | simplistic ideas of race, and far less-correlated to race than
         | one might think.
         | 
         | I think seeing everyone in a multi-dimensional spectrum, in
         | which the viewer occupies one point and is not simply on one
         | side of some line, like they might simplistically imagine, does
         | a lot to show our commonality.
        
           | Grustaf wrote:
           | > It's making the point that skin color is far more diverse
           | than simplistic ideas of race, and far less-correlated to
           | race than one might think.
           | 
           | My point is that very few actual racists (outside the US, at
           | least) think in terms of skin colour, so if that is the
           | purpose of the book it seems to miss the target.
           | 
           | I would say that it is the skin colour concept that is
           | simplistic and meaningless though, it is race that is a
           | diverse and interesting concept, related to biology,
           | geography, migrations etc.
           | 
           | Skin colour is just one out of hundreds of characteristics,
           | and arguably one of the least interesting and meaningful
           | ones.
        
         | dragonwriter wrote:
         | > Calling them all "Black" is just reductionist and frankly
         | racist.
         | 
         | When Black activists talk about Black with a capital "B", they
         | are referring to a shared identity group, not a skin color.
         | Now, its true that the name of the identity group has origin in
         | _other people 's_ description based on skin color, but that's
         | history, not meaning.
        
           | Grustaf wrote:
           | Sure, in a way that's just a historical accident, they could
           | have used some other word, I'm not really talking about that.
           | I'm more about skin colour discussions in general, as if that
           | was the important thing for anyone.
           | 
           | I feel it's kind of a straw-man, very few biologically
           | oriented "anti-black" racists look at albinos differently.
           | They dislike them just as much, the literal "skin color" is
           | not relevant.
        
         | arketyp wrote:
         | >Calling them all "Black" is just reductionist and frankly
         | racist.
         | 
         | But you just said actual racists care about statistical
         | groupings of traits. Seems then that the "anti-racists" would
         | be more prone to that kind of reduction.
        
           | Grustaf wrote:
           | They are, only talking about skin colour is way more
           | reductionist that taking the entire phenotype, and history,
           | into account.
        
             | SamBam wrote:
             | "The anti-racists are the _real_ racists, " eh?
        
               | Grustaf wrote:
               | A lot of them are. But racists are also racists.
        
       | mwambua wrote:
       | This is great! I hope we can slowly stop referring to people
       | using these crude reductions.
       | 
       | I remember arguing with a classmate when I was a child, arguing
       | that I wasn't "Black". I wasn't necessarily offended by the
       | term... more confused and disappointed that they didn't see me as
       | I saw myself. If they spent just a couple seconds looking
       | closely, they'd see that hardly anyone is actually black or
       | white.
        
         | lurquer wrote:
         | Would you prefer being referred to as "Pantone 4637-C"?
         | 
         | Do you sincerely think people do not realize "hardly anyone is
         | actually black or white"?
         | 
         | Nobody cares what color your skin is. Except, maybe, a
         | dermatologist or a makeup manufacturer.
        
           | mwambua wrote:
           | I prefer any grouping that describes me using attributes that
           | actually belong to me. "Human", "Dark skinned person",
           | "Engineer", etc
           | 
           | I'm not a "Black Person". I get that's the term that people
           | use (and I won't be offended if someone uses it to refer to
           | me), but it's inaccurate and I wish we'd stop using it.
           | 
           | > Nobody cares what color your skin is.
           | 
           | I sincerely wish that were true.
        
       | acchow wrote:
       | What a fantastic work of art.
       | 
       | I'm curious why they chose Pantone, a single-dimensional number,
       | instead of something more intuitively understandable like RGB?
        
       | MrDrDr wrote:
       | Brilliant. Race will likely always remain an important cultural
       | concept (for many important reasons) - but this is a compelling
       | demonstration of its fragile foundations.
        
         | cloverich wrote:
         | > Race will likely always remain an important cultural concept
         | 
         | Why? What is the hard relation between race and culture
         | exactly?
        
           | exo-pla-net wrote:
           | A sticky race-culture relationship forms when society uses
           | the phrase [Some Race] Culture to describe a given culture,
           | such as Black Culture.
           | 
           | It's unfortunate when this happens, because it creates a
           | gravitational pull toward racial prejudice: seeing a skin
           | color and making immediate cultural assumptions. Or seeing
           | _one 's own_ skin color, and feeling as though one ought to
           | be acting a certain way, as Obama talked about experiencing
           | as a young man.
           | 
           | I believe it's a happier thing when we choose the construct
           | [Non-Race Culture], such as Silicon Valley Culture. Then
           | anybody can join in, and we're not meanwhile eyeing one
           | another's skin color.
        
             | dncornholio wrote:
             | What's black culture? I know Chinese culture, Thai culture,
             | Japanese culture, African culture. I know Christian
             | culture, buddhist culture, etc etc.
             | 
             | We don't distinct culture with the color of ones skin but
             | from where he's from right?
             | 
             | Black culture does not exist. To me it's just US culture.
        
               | jasonwatkinspdx wrote:
               | This is an ignorant thing to say. I'm assuming that's
               | because you don't live in the US and unfamiliar as a
               | result.
               | 
               | Slaves and their descendants forged their own unique
               | culture because they were first stolen from their
               | homeland, treated as chattel slaves for generations that
               | erased any connections to their homelands, then formed
               | their own culture in response to their oppression. Note
               | that this has been a continuous process from the original
               | days of the plantation, through Jim Crow, to the Civil
               | Rights Movement, to today.
               | 
               | Black culture is a thread of US culture, but a distinct
               | one due to that shared experience, its lasting multi
               | generational effects, and the structural issues of
               | inequality that remain. Nearly all immigrant groups that
               | have faced discrimination in the US throughout its
               | history have done the same thing in their own unique
               | ways.
               | 
               | Saying "it's just US culture" will come across as an
               | attempt to erase that history.
        
               | dncornholio wrote:
               | I'd take slave culture than but definitely not black
               | culture. I will refuse to distinct culture by race
               | 
               | Why I said US culture is that's where this so called
               | culture originated. Because you don't like doesn't mean
               | it's not American.
               | 
               | My country has a rich history of slavery as well, but we
               | never started calling people "Black" it's always
               | "African", "Nigerian", "Surinam". Those people live here
               | and have been allowed to live their own culture. Plus I
               | grew up with all the lessons learned from WWII.
               | 
               | Slavery has been a thing of the past for a while now.
               | There's 0 reason people should still be suffered from its
               | consequences. We got past it. Yes it's true I have never
               | experienced "Black culture". But I also never will, even
               | if you put me inside the biggest ghetto, I will not call
               | their culture black culture, even if the people in that
               | culture wanted me I would not.
               | 
               | The color of your skin is worthless to me.
               | 
               | Also, "forged their own culture" is a very ignorant thing
               | to say. It was forced upon them IMO
        
               | cloverich wrote:
               | > Why I said US culture is that's where this so called
               | culture originated. Because you don't like doesn't mean
               | it's not American.
               | 
               | Parent isn't protesting your usage of American, but the
               | lumping of black US culture with non-black us culture.
               | They defend this meaning in their follow up reply. To re-
               | iterate, most (all?) descendents of slaves in the US
               | cannot trace their heritage prior to the slave ships so
               | its not possible to do in this country what is done in
               | yours ("Nigerian" instead of the more generic black). The
               | same thing has happened with whites in the US for
               | different reasons.
               | 
               | > I will refuse to distinct culture by race
               | 
               | Any way of grouping people, artificial or not, can
               | produce a unique culture. In the case of black americans,
               | the history of slavery and the ensuing oppression that
               | followed has done just that. We'll never erase the
               | legacy. It is possible we'll one day lose the distinction
               | of "black" culture as anything but an historical
               | artifact, and have only american culture, but that would
               | take generations AFTER stamping out the final remnants of
               | racism as a starting point. As it stands, some of our
               | parents attended segregated schools, and many of us have
               | friends or even family who still hold genuinely racist
               | beliefs. That manifests in many ways. We are a long way
               | from slavery, but we still have a long way to go.
        
               | jasonwatkinspdx wrote:
               | The situation between your country and mine are not the
               | same. Black Americans are not the same as people termed
               | black elsewhere.
               | 
               | As I explained, it's impossible for black Americans to
               | use terms like Nigerian, as that history was erased by
               | force.
               | 
               | Slavery may be over wherever you are, but the impacts
               | here in the US continue. Explicit rezoning continued into
               | the 1980s. It continues today in a more covert way, as
               | proven by numerous studies that do things like send out
               | identical resumes or loan applications with different
               | pictures or names that signal particular racial
               | backgrounds.
               | 
               | You are making what is commonly called the "colorblind
               | argument." I'd encourage you to research it with an open
               | mind.
               | 
               | Forged their own culture is entirely the right way to put
               | it. Yes they were forced into their situation, but the
               | culture they created was truly their own, as their
               | response to that horror. Your comment on this point acts
               | to attribute the creation of Gospel, Blues, Bluegrass,
               | Jazz, Rock and Roll, and Hip Hop as a creation of the
               | plantation owners, vs their victims. And that's just the
               | examples from music.
               | 
               | Race is an essential part of the black American identity.
               | Everyone I've ever talked to about this would respond to
               | your comments as an attempt to erase a part of their
               | identity, one that they are ultimately proud of, albeit
               | in a complex and often bittersweet way. You don't get to
               | make that choice for them, you can just decide whether
               | you respect them or not.
               | 
               | If you want to learn about this with an open mind to the
               | idea you're getting something very wrong, Ta-Nehisi
               | Coates is one of the very best writers on this topic. I'd
               | suggest starting here: https://www.theatlantic.com/politi
               | cs/archive/2013/05/health-...
               | 
               | I'd strongly suggest one of his longer form essays or
               | books as well, but that's a reasonable introduction to
               | how the colorblind perspective remains harmful.
        
       | TrispusAttucks wrote:
       | Beautiful
        
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       (page generated 2021-06-11 23:01 UTC)