[HN Gopher] The Colors We Share [video]
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The Colors We Share [video]
Author : brudgers
Score : 54 points
Date : 2021-06-10 02:32 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.youtube.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.youtube.com)
| amelius wrote:
| Pantone patented our skin colors?
| neom wrote:
| You can't patent a colour, you patent a process. If you're
| referring to the R next to Pantone, the R is because Pantone is
| a company and the wordmark Pantone is a registered trademark.
| amelius wrote:
| They sure know how to make it look like they own these
| colors, though.
| rjmunro wrote:
| No, they own the Pantone numbers. They don't own the
| colours themselves.
| antattack wrote:
| I so dislike sites that make shipping so hard to find.
|
| If you want to order the book, shipping options are:
| USPS Media Mail: $2.89 UPS 3 Day Select: $22.25
| UPS Ground: $11.20 UPS Next Day Air Dom: $45.93
| eco wrote:
| My prices on the UPS options are about double yours (USPS is
| the same). I'm in the Salt Lake metro area.
| UPS 3 Day Select: $49.19 UPS Ground: $20.85
| UPS Next Day Air Dom: $118.86
|
| Every time I ship something it seems like it is priced about
| the same as these options. How do individuals (and this
| company) unlock those magical shipping rates you get from other
| businesses without which they'd be dead in the water as a
| business?
| 83 wrote:
| Commercial accounts get significantly better rates, I've seen
| at least one startup whose business model is passing along
| the commercial rate to consumers for a small cut of the
| savings (my quick search is only finding pirateship.com but
| that's not who I was thinking of). Similar thing happens on
| Ebay when you do your shipping label through them (not sure
| if they're actually taking a cut or just passing on their
| better rate though).
| [deleted]
| geocar wrote:
| DHL to Portugal: $137.71
|
| Anyone have any idea why shipping 22 pieces of dead tree is so
| freaking expensive?
| [deleted]
| neom wrote:
| re-shippers rates are usually a lot cheaper, just a quick
| look around seemed it was about $30 to forward a package that
| is less than 1lb to Portugal.
| Grustaf wrote:
| The photos are nice, but the ones that talk about "skin color"
| are usually "anti-racists".
|
| Actual racists, to the extent that they care about biological
| race, are interested in the entire phenotype, the statistical
| groupings of traits like hair color, eye color, facial features,
| head shape, length, body structure and yes, also skin color.
|
| Africa is full of tribes with similar skin colors that are only
| very remotely related, often more genetically diverse than
| Russians and Basques. (There are of course also lots of
| _different_ skin colors in Africa!) Calling them all "Black" is
| just reductionist and frankly racist.
| SamBam wrote:
| The book in the post explicitly makes that point. It shows
| multiple people who might be labeled different races with the
| exact same skin color, for instance.
|
| It's making the point that skin color is far more diverse than
| simplistic ideas of race, and far less-correlated to race than
| one might think.
|
| I think seeing everyone in a multi-dimensional spectrum, in
| which the viewer occupies one point and is not simply on one
| side of some line, like they might simplistically imagine, does
| a lot to show our commonality.
| Grustaf wrote:
| > It's making the point that skin color is far more diverse
| than simplistic ideas of race, and far less-correlated to
| race than one might think.
|
| My point is that very few actual racists (outside the US, at
| least) think in terms of skin colour, so if that is the
| purpose of the book it seems to miss the target.
|
| I would say that it is the skin colour concept that is
| simplistic and meaningless though, it is race that is a
| diverse and interesting concept, related to biology,
| geography, migrations etc.
|
| Skin colour is just one out of hundreds of characteristics,
| and arguably one of the least interesting and meaningful
| ones.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > Calling them all "Black" is just reductionist and frankly
| racist.
|
| When Black activists talk about Black with a capital "B", they
| are referring to a shared identity group, not a skin color.
| Now, its true that the name of the identity group has origin in
| _other people 's_ description based on skin color, but that's
| history, not meaning.
| Grustaf wrote:
| Sure, in a way that's just a historical accident, they could
| have used some other word, I'm not really talking about that.
| I'm more about skin colour discussions in general, as if that
| was the important thing for anyone.
|
| I feel it's kind of a straw-man, very few biologically
| oriented "anti-black" racists look at albinos differently.
| They dislike them just as much, the literal "skin color" is
| not relevant.
| arketyp wrote:
| >Calling them all "Black" is just reductionist and frankly
| racist.
|
| But you just said actual racists care about statistical
| groupings of traits. Seems then that the "anti-racists" would
| be more prone to that kind of reduction.
| Grustaf wrote:
| They are, only talking about skin colour is way more
| reductionist that taking the entire phenotype, and history,
| into account.
| SamBam wrote:
| "The anti-racists are the _real_ racists, " eh?
| Grustaf wrote:
| A lot of them are. But racists are also racists.
| mwambua wrote:
| This is great! I hope we can slowly stop referring to people
| using these crude reductions.
|
| I remember arguing with a classmate when I was a child, arguing
| that I wasn't "Black". I wasn't necessarily offended by the
| term... more confused and disappointed that they didn't see me as
| I saw myself. If they spent just a couple seconds looking
| closely, they'd see that hardly anyone is actually black or
| white.
| lurquer wrote:
| Would you prefer being referred to as "Pantone 4637-C"?
|
| Do you sincerely think people do not realize "hardly anyone is
| actually black or white"?
|
| Nobody cares what color your skin is. Except, maybe, a
| dermatologist or a makeup manufacturer.
| mwambua wrote:
| I prefer any grouping that describes me using attributes that
| actually belong to me. "Human", "Dark skinned person",
| "Engineer", etc
|
| I'm not a "Black Person". I get that's the term that people
| use (and I won't be offended if someone uses it to refer to
| me), but it's inaccurate and I wish we'd stop using it.
|
| > Nobody cares what color your skin is.
|
| I sincerely wish that were true.
| acchow wrote:
| What a fantastic work of art.
|
| I'm curious why they chose Pantone, a single-dimensional number,
| instead of something more intuitively understandable like RGB?
| MrDrDr wrote:
| Brilliant. Race will likely always remain an important cultural
| concept (for many important reasons) - but this is a compelling
| demonstration of its fragile foundations.
| cloverich wrote:
| > Race will likely always remain an important cultural concept
|
| Why? What is the hard relation between race and culture
| exactly?
| exo-pla-net wrote:
| A sticky race-culture relationship forms when society uses
| the phrase [Some Race] Culture to describe a given culture,
| such as Black Culture.
|
| It's unfortunate when this happens, because it creates a
| gravitational pull toward racial prejudice: seeing a skin
| color and making immediate cultural assumptions. Or seeing
| _one 's own_ skin color, and feeling as though one ought to
| be acting a certain way, as Obama talked about experiencing
| as a young man.
|
| I believe it's a happier thing when we choose the construct
| [Non-Race Culture], such as Silicon Valley Culture. Then
| anybody can join in, and we're not meanwhile eyeing one
| another's skin color.
| dncornholio wrote:
| What's black culture? I know Chinese culture, Thai culture,
| Japanese culture, African culture. I know Christian
| culture, buddhist culture, etc etc.
|
| We don't distinct culture with the color of ones skin but
| from where he's from right?
|
| Black culture does not exist. To me it's just US culture.
| jasonwatkinspdx wrote:
| This is an ignorant thing to say. I'm assuming that's
| because you don't live in the US and unfamiliar as a
| result.
|
| Slaves and their descendants forged their own unique
| culture because they were first stolen from their
| homeland, treated as chattel slaves for generations that
| erased any connections to their homelands, then formed
| their own culture in response to their oppression. Note
| that this has been a continuous process from the original
| days of the plantation, through Jim Crow, to the Civil
| Rights Movement, to today.
|
| Black culture is a thread of US culture, but a distinct
| one due to that shared experience, its lasting multi
| generational effects, and the structural issues of
| inequality that remain. Nearly all immigrant groups that
| have faced discrimination in the US throughout its
| history have done the same thing in their own unique
| ways.
|
| Saying "it's just US culture" will come across as an
| attempt to erase that history.
| dncornholio wrote:
| I'd take slave culture than but definitely not black
| culture. I will refuse to distinct culture by race
|
| Why I said US culture is that's where this so called
| culture originated. Because you don't like doesn't mean
| it's not American.
|
| My country has a rich history of slavery as well, but we
| never started calling people "Black" it's always
| "African", "Nigerian", "Surinam". Those people live here
| and have been allowed to live their own culture. Plus I
| grew up with all the lessons learned from WWII.
|
| Slavery has been a thing of the past for a while now.
| There's 0 reason people should still be suffered from its
| consequences. We got past it. Yes it's true I have never
| experienced "Black culture". But I also never will, even
| if you put me inside the biggest ghetto, I will not call
| their culture black culture, even if the people in that
| culture wanted me I would not.
|
| The color of your skin is worthless to me.
|
| Also, "forged their own culture" is a very ignorant thing
| to say. It was forced upon them IMO
| cloverich wrote:
| > Why I said US culture is that's where this so called
| culture originated. Because you don't like doesn't mean
| it's not American.
|
| Parent isn't protesting your usage of American, but the
| lumping of black US culture with non-black us culture.
| They defend this meaning in their follow up reply. To re-
| iterate, most (all?) descendents of slaves in the US
| cannot trace their heritage prior to the slave ships so
| its not possible to do in this country what is done in
| yours ("Nigerian" instead of the more generic black). The
| same thing has happened with whites in the US for
| different reasons.
|
| > I will refuse to distinct culture by race
|
| Any way of grouping people, artificial or not, can
| produce a unique culture. In the case of black americans,
| the history of slavery and the ensuing oppression that
| followed has done just that. We'll never erase the
| legacy. It is possible we'll one day lose the distinction
| of "black" culture as anything but an historical
| artifact, and have only american culture, but that would
| take generations AFTER stamping out the final remnants of
| racism as a starting point. As it stands, some of our
| parents attended segregated schools, and many of us have
| friends or even family who still hold genuinely racist
| beliefs. That manifests in many ways. We are a long way
| from slavery, but we still have a long way to go.
| jasonwatkinspdx wrote:
| The situation between your country and mine are not the
| same. Black Americans are not the same as people termed
| black elsewhere.
|
| As I explained, it's impossible for black Americans to
| use terms like Nigerian, as that history was erased by
| force.
|
| Slavery may be over wherever you are, but the impacts
| here in the US continue. Explicit rezoning continued into
| the 1980s. It continues today in a more covert way, as
| proven by numerous studies that do things like send out
| identical resumes or loan applications with different
| pictures or names that signal particular racial
| backgrounds.
|
| You are making what is commonly called the "colorblind
| argument." I'd encourage you to research it with an open
| mind.
|
| Forged their own culture is entirely the right way to put
| it. Yes they were forced into their situation, but the
| culture they created was truly their own, as their
| response to that horror. Your comment on this point acts
| to attribute the creation of Gospel, Blues, Bluegrass,
| Jazz, Rock and Roll, and Hip Hop as a creation of the
| plantation owners, vs their victims. And that's just the
| examples from music.
|
| Race is an essential part of the black American identity.
| Everyone I've ever talked to about this would respond to
| your comments as an attempt to erase a part of their
| identity, one that they are ultimately proud of, albeit
| in a complex and often bittersweet way. You don't get to
| make that choice for them, you can just decide whether
| you respect them or not.
|
| If you want to learn about this with an open mind to the
| idea you're getting something very wrong, Ta-Nehisi
| Coates is one of the very best writers on this topic. I'd
| suggest starting here: https://www.theatlantic.com/politi
| cs/archive/2013/05/health-...
|
| I'd strongly suggest one of his longer form essays or
| books as well, but that's a reasonable introduction to
| how the colorblind perspective remains harmful.
| TrispusAttucks wrote:
| Beautiful
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