[HN Gopher] I am an object of internet ridicule, ask me anything...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       I am an object of internet ridicule, ask me anything (2013)
        
       Author : paublyrne
       Score  : 232 points
       Date   : 2021-06-10 06:47 UTC (16 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theawl.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theawl.com)
        
       | nrp wrote:
       | " After I posted, the message board thread's climate changed
       | immediately. Not unlike real life, people were complimentary and
       | kind. Many people deleted their mean comments -- one person was
       | so embarrassed for threatening to smash my typewriter that he
       | apologized to me, and then went through and started trying to
       | make other haters apologize."
       | 
       | This is deeply familiar to me and is amazing to see in action. I
       | regularly reply to people on Reddit and HN who are crapping on a
       | product I've made and witness both the person's position on the
       | product and the thread's overall tone change almost instantly.
       | For whatever reason, it works less well on Twitter.
        
         | agumonkey wrote:
         | maybe why in person life is radically different, people don't
         | get the same level of raw unfiltered toxic reaction
         | 
         | that said I really wonder how come our brain can be so
         | destructively egotistical when behind a screen (or a car
         | windshield)
        
         | parafactual wrote:
         | I think it works less well on Twitter because of the
         | constrained length of the replies. With, say, a few paragraphs,
         | you can explain yourself well enough to garner sympathy. One
         | lone sentence is just something else to dunk on.
        
         | freedomben wrote:
         | It's truly amazing to me (in a bad way) how humans are on the
         | internet. They don't seem to realize that other people are real
         | people. There's something about a reply that snaps them out of
         | it. I've seen it happen many times myself as well.
        
           | munificent wrote:
           | _> They don 't seem to realize that other people are real
           | people._
           | 
           | It is hypothesized that there is a rough upper limit to the
           | number of people our brains can naturally conceive of:
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number
           | 
           | Of course, with effort, we can be mindful that in fact we are
           | surrounded by millions of strangers, but it's not an
           | instinctual emotional reaction. When in environment like
           | sitting at home staring at a screen, it's easy to forget to
           | do that cognitive work.
        
           | lostlogin wrote:
           | Something similar sometimes happens in heavy road traffic too
           | I think.
        
           | inigojonesguy wrote:
           | By writing this I'll contradict what I'm going to say, but,
           | generally, not applying to this thread, I observed that many
           | times people spend their precious time to write a reply
           | instead of using it to better understand TFA.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | pvaldes wrote:
       | Anybody in this situation needs to hear Weezer's song "Pork and
       | Beans".
        
       | notRobot wrote:
       | (2013)
       | 
       | One of my favourite articles on the internet
        
       | walrus01 wrote:
       | Typewriter in a public park? How about a backpack with an old
       | school rotary desk phone, an analog to SIP ATA that supports
       | pulse dialing, a battery pack, and an opengear LTE network
       | bridge/router? Set up a folding table somewhere and make and
       | receive phone calls. Or pull the whole rig out on the countertop
       | at a Starbucks and have an important business call.
       | 
       | https://www.ebay.com/itm/174796261408?hash=item28b2ab4820:g:...
        
       | debo_ wrote:
       | Years ago, I met a performer at an event who sat there and ground
       | a key for you. The key wasn't for a lock, it was a unique
       | artifact they made just for you. It took about 10-15 mins, and
       | they just sat and spoke with you while they ground the key.
       | 
       | It was a soothing experience, and I kept that key around for a
       | very long time.
        
       | heywherelogingo wrote:
       | tl;dr: people jumped to conclusions from a photo presenting
       | someone out of context.
        
       | upofadown wrote:
       | Social media is primarily a way for people to express their
       | emotions. Hate is an emotion. This stuff is not any more
       | complicated than that.
        
         | nicaragua wrote:
         | I agree. Social media sucks. Zuckerberg, you here? Facebook
         | sucks. Twitter boss? Twitter sucks. Haters hating on each other
         | while people make money. Sort of how prisons work as well, just
         | a different context. Prisons for the mind. Keep people locked
         | in. Make money. Haters gonna hate.
        
       | iJohnDoe wrote:
       | Title says 2013. Wasn't it only in recent years that people were
       | brining typewriters to Starbucks. Maybe it was never considered
       | cool, but it wasn't treated like this person. Funny how time
       | changes things.
       | 
       | It's like the "nerds" that were treated so badly in the 80s for
       | being into Starwars and dressing up in their favorite characters.
       | Now Starwars is cool and dressing up garnishes respect based on
       | how elaborate and how much work went into it.
       | 
       | I guess none of the above is surprising. It happens with
       | everything. Inventors, entrepreneurs, and other people that are
       | later respected as pioneers.
        
         | OJFord wrote:
         | > dressing up garnishes respect based on how elaborate and how
         | much work went into it.
         | 
         | That sounds very much like a 'within the community' sort of
         | thing.
         | 
         | Isn't it just that the internet's made it easier for groups
         | with (varying degrees, of course, of) niche interests to
         | congregate?
        
           | playpause wrote:
           | I think it's a bit of both. The internet has also made the
           | niche groups more visible, probably making them grow in
           | confidence/appeal/numbers. So people don't need to worry as
           | much about being labelled weird by association. Being
           | labelled too basic/boring is also probably more of a concern
           | than before, so the social pressures are aligning more and
           | more with taking part in niche interests, or at least not
           | being seen as scornful of them. I don't have any numbers to
           | back this up but that's how it seems to me. Compared to a few
           | years ago anyway.
        
       | jwdunne wrote:
       | I remember reading this back in the day. I remember being shocked
       | and dismayed at the way he was treated.
       | 
       | I mean the idea is a bit insane but the guy needed to eat and
       | he's a writer. I still think the idea of using a typewriter to
       | become a writing busker was pretty clever in the end.
       | 
       | I wonder how he's doing today.
        
         | MikeDelta wrote:
         | Happy to see that he seems to be doing fine: writing a book,
         | doing podcasts, and still available with his typewriter for
         | personalized stories.
         | 
         | https://cdhermelin.com/
        
       | AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote:
       | A lot of internet communication platforms are just The Two
       | Minutes Hate, only they run 24/7.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Past threads:
       | 
       |  _I Am An Object Of Internet Ridicule, Ask Me Anything_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6412708 - Sept 2013 (378
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _I Am an Object of Internet Ridicule, Ask Me Anything_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9997902 - Aug 2015 (3
       | comments)
        
       | drewzero1 wrote:
       | I remember seeing either the original Reddit post or a reference
       | to it and thinking it was a really neat idea. I collect
       | typewriters and had a slim portable Royal Hermes that would have
       | been perfect for that kind of job, but I wasn't (and still am
       | not) brave enough about my writing to share it in that way.
        
       | Bodell wrote:
       | I'm not sure I understand why people would violently react to a
       | picture of a typewriter. If these same people saw a young kind
       | with an original game boy would the urge be to punch them. Nor do
       | I see how it's ironic. The only real irony being that people who
       | are striving for online attention are enraged when perceiving
       | someone else as trying to get attention. It's seems anytime I
       | hear or read the word "ironic" it's used in some novel way and is
       | impossible to get a read on what it means in any given context.
       | 
       | "Hipster", "ironic" and "pretentious" seem all to be very
       | slippery words that are really just a judgements of how "normal"
       | or not something is. It smacks of assimilate or die. Which are
       | typically a projection of how little that person values their own
       | life and how easily shaken they are by someone not make if their
       | same choices. It's no real wonder to me that a hyper-competitive
       | culture would bring about this sort of behavior though.
        
       | MarcScott wrote:
       | I once had a blog post go a little bit viral on HN, Reddit,
       | Twitter etc, years ago.
       | 
       | At first I was really worried about the negative comments, and
       | tried to justify myself or make corrections. After 24 hours I was
       | so numbed to it all, that I began to find the negative comments
       | amusing.
       | 
       | One Reddit commenter called me a "Incompetent fuckbucket" and I
       | enjoyed that phrase so much that I ended up screen capping it and
       | using it in a couple of public talks.
        
         | sergiomattei wrote:
         | That's the most original insult I've seen in a while, drew a
         | couple of chuckles...
        
         | sjclemmy wrote:
         | That chimes with my experience. Back in 2009 my (then) 9 year
         | old son made a few stop frame lego movies and we posted them on
         | YouTube. Some of the comments were really mean. I remember
         | being surprised by the response but found it quite amusing. We
         | still joke about our favourite comment: "You're an
         | embarrassment to the stop motion community"
        
       | wccrawford wrote:
       | That's a great reminder that the internet is full of cowardly
       | bullies. They don't actually want to understand things, they just
       | want to tear other people down to make themselves feel better.
        
         | rchaud wrote:
         | A positive outcome of this was that these people dialed down
         | their rage when the person in the photo commented. Before that
         | however, they were still perfectly willing to expend a lot of
         | angry energy trying to eviscerate the person they had created
         | in their minds.
        
         | mr-wendel wrote:
         | Hmm... I like how you center on "don't want to understand
         | things". It's a LOT harder to hate something you understand,
         | especially when it comes to people.
         | 
         | I'd quibble on the final part though: they do it not to make
         | themselves feel better (that is simply not possible), but to
         | justify feeling bad about themselves and not wanting to admit
         | it. It's quite narcissistic.
        
         | helpfulclippy wrote:
         | Fucking bullies. I'm gonna go find someone who looks like a
         | bully and beat him up!
        
           | zero_deg_kevin wrote:
           | You could always disrupt bullying when you see it. A lot of
           | people would be grateful and you're less likely to go to
           | jail.
        
         | david422 wrote:
         | I think it's also just a product of the hivemind and people not
         | thinking. Not realizing that there is a real person in that
         | picture. Causes normal people to be asses without thinking. As
         | evidenced by the fact that the tone of the conversation changed
         | when he responded.
        
       | Brendinooo wrote:
       | I don't know if there's a named maxim for this phenomenon, but
       | something I learned on Twitter is that everything you say can be
       | interpreted in bad faith.
       | 
       | This can be done on purpose, or it just happens because there's
       | not enough shared context to connect how you read something to
       | what the other person was trying to say.
       | 
       | (Also, while a picture still says 1000 words, I've never had less
       | faith in the veracity of those words.)
       | 
       | I've tried to be earnest on social media, for reasons like this.
       | You see a photo of a guy with a typewriter, try to paint it in a
       | good light for yourself.
       | 
       | I'm not sure how I would have reacted, but I had a short phase in
       | college where I dredged up an old typewriter from a friend's
       | garage and used it to type love letters to girls. So maybe I
       | could have related a bit better!
        
         | 9wzYQbTYsAIc wrote:
         | It seems like an extension of the actor-observer bias /
         | fundamental attribution error.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actor%E2%80%93observer_asymmet...
        
         | munificent wrote:
         | One of the best changes I made during the pandemic for my
         | mental health was realizing that _I_ was starting to fall into
         | that mental trap too and deliberately deciding not too.
         | 
         | I'm not always great at it, but since then, I have started to
         | try to interpret most things I read online as charitably as
         | possible, especially when I choose to respond to someone.
         | 
         | As if by magic, once I did, I started seeing that the world was
         | a more positive place than I had realized. So much of my
         | perception of negativity was something _I_ was creating in the
         | process of interpretation. It wasn 't in the data itself.
         | 
         | Giving people more of the benefit of the doubt does set me up
         | to occasionally be suckered. I accept that as a worthwhile
         | price to pay to give kindness towards the majority of other
         | people who are acting in good faith.
         | 
         | Sort of like the value of money, society is what we believe it
         | to be.
        
         | chias wrote:
         | "Men may construe things after their fashion, clean from the
         | purpose of the things themselves." -- Bill S. (1599)
        
         | dalbasal wrote:
         | >>everything you say can be interpreted in bad faith.
         | 
         | You're only saying that to absolve yourself from understanding
         | that people's criticism of whatever stupid or evil thing you're
         | into is valid.
        
           | Brendinooo wrote:
           | Well done, I think.
           | 
           | Now I'm reminded of Poe's Law...
        
             | dalbasal wrote:
             | No, no. That was serious. ;)
        
         | ergot_vacation wrote:
         | Not only CAN it be interpreted in bad faith, but users are
         | ENCOURAGED to do so, because that makes people angry, and
         | people stay on the site and keep clicking longer if they're
         | angry.
        
         | frankosaurus wrote:
         | Intentional misunderstanding is a time-honored technique for
         | getting people to talk. If the target is an engineer, it's a
         | form of nerd sniping. https://xkcd.com/356/
         | 
         | PUA "gurus" sometimes suggest this as a flirting technique.
        
         | vadansky wrote:
         | "If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most
         | honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang
         | him."
        
       | ALittleLight wrote:
       | If I saw what the picture purports to show, a hipster in the park
       | typing on a typewriter, I might smirk or roll my eyes or
       | something if I did anything at all. However, if you want
       | attention commenting on a post on reddit, or anywhere, you can't
       | just say "There's a chance I'd subtly roll my eyes at this" - you
       | have to go more extreme. In the same way that BuzzFeed described
       | the picture as one that would make you "Black out with rage"
       | you've got to go from "10% chance of smirk" to "I will smash this
       | hipster-doofus's typewriter."
       | 
       | A lot of stuff in internet comments is stuff that would
       | absolutely never happen in real life. If you saw a hipster on a
       | typewriter and a crowd of people bullying him in real life, it
       | would be absolutely clear which behavior was worse. Plus, none of
       | those people in real life would actually do any of the extreme
       | things they write about in internet comments.
       | 
       | The whole thing makes me imagine a forum of the future. Maybe
       | it's more like a physical forum or park in virtual reality.
       | There's a story at the center and radiating out from it are
       | avatars that have been left behind by commenters. The avatars
       | would be run by an AI that has been briefed on what point the
       | commenter wanted to make. Other users, using the forum live,
       | could wander through the park and interact with the deposited
       | avatars or one another. Bringing some elements of reality to the
       | forum experience - i.e. making it look like you are in a public
       | space and interacting with people, may also bring in some
       | elements of civility that we enjoy in reality and not online.
        
         | ergot_vacation wrote:
         | IE the Greater Internet Fuckwad theory (https://www.penny-
         | arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19). The bitter irony is that
         | originally, mods and admins on forums did what they could to
         | contain this kind of behavior. Now it's actively encouraged
         | because rage means engagement, and engagement means more ad
         | revenue.
        
           | naravara wrote:
           | Honestly, with Twitter and Facebook actually being more
           | noxious than anonymous forums like Reddit or HN, I'm not so
           | sure that anonymity is the driver.
        
             | throwaway09223 wrote:
             | I agree with you and I'd take it a step further: I think
             | there's considerable evidence that anonymity is not the
             | driver.
             | 
             | Being out of range of immediate physical violence is
             | probably a big factor, though. We have the "fighting words"
             | doctrine for good reason.
        
       | alex_young wrote:
       | I remember this. This article convinced me that the word
       | "Hipster" is just another random insult directed at the generic
       | other. A completely useless descriptor.
        
         | silicon2401 wrote:
         | Language evolves based on usage and what speakers need to
         | describe. The word wouldn't have evolved if there wasn't a use
         | for it. Maybe you mean to say that you dislike how people use
         | the word?
        
         | hellbannedguy wrote:
         | I never liked the word. It isn't even clever.
        
         | pmoriarty wrote:
         | It's not random.
         | 
         | Someone in stereotypical metalhead attire is unlikely to be
         | called a hipster for it, neither is someone dressed in punk
         | fashion, nor a goth or a jock, etc... well, they won't by a
         | anyone with half a clue as to what the identifying features of
         | these subcultures are.
         | 
         | The negativity comes from people assuming that hipsters think
         | they're cool, but (according to their critics) they're not...
         | it's kind of a rejection of a holier-than-thou attitude, but in
         | fact the critic is engaging in the same snobbery by picking on
         | the hipsters (or whatever subculture they're targeting).
         | 
         | The insult slingers are trying to act as a fashion police, as
         | if there's something special about them that let's them see
         | what's "really cool" that hipsters are blind to. But every
         | sense of fashion is just as arbitrary and ridiculous as any
         | other, and no one's so cool that they can't be looked down on
         | and sneered at by someone else.
        
           | strken wrote:
           | It's not exactly because they "think they're cool", it's
           | because hipsters reject cheap mass-market consumer goods and
           | embrace expensive one-off artsy goods, while _simultaneously_
           | adopting poverty aesthetics like wearing old second hand
           | clothes and recycling everything. They 're seen, perhaps
           | unfairly, as rich gentrifiers.
        
             | ziml77 wrote:
             | I don't see the contradiction between rejecting those mass-
             | market items and wearing second-hand clothes. Everyone has
             | different priorities of where to spend their money.
             | 
             | It could even be a matter of principles. Anything produced
             | at scale, especially clothing, exploits cheap labor. That's
             | something these people may want to avoid. It's also bad for
             | the environment to buy cheaper items that will likely fail
             | quickly, and if old clothes are still usable then why waste
             | resources on new ones?
             | 
             | The holier-than-thou attitude that the other commenter
             | mentioned is still what I believe is the reason for hipster
             | hate. And it's not always unwarranted. If someone becomes a
             | hipster because they want to feel superior, then that
             | certainly does make them annoying.
        
             | cosmicglee wrote:
             | Well said. It's the perceived hypocrisy in hipsterdom that
             | is seemingly so eyeroll-worthy, but to roll one's eyes, one
             | needs to pointedly ignore the fact that we're all
             | hypocrites about something.
             | 
             | I blame this on the deification of schadenfreude in popular
             | culture. The advent of reality TV, and the prurient
             | interest in other people's pain exemplified by the
             | afternoon talk shows that predated it, gives us all not
             | only the opportunity, but the permission and encouragement
             | to feel like we're superior to others because of some
             | dehumanizing glimpse into an uncontextualized portion of
             | their private lives.
             | 
             | What a different world we might have if society cultivated
             | a sense of humility, a 'hey, none of us are perfect and
             | we're all out here struggling and I wish us all the best'
             | mentality.
             | 
             | But then, fostering divisions and appealing to our baser,
             | more ignoble instincts is more beneficial, both in terms of
             | profit and also 'divide and conquer' social control.
        
       | FerretFred wrote:
       | Wow, that was a great read! Thanks for sharing!
        
       | locallost wrote:
       | I guess it's a label that will be applied if you're doing
       | something you want, just for the hell of it, without making it
       | look cool. the people that are super conscious about themselves
       | and how they present themselves cannot accept it.
        
       | jokethrowaway wrote:
       | What a great read.
       | 
       | I wish more people were aware of the value of anonymity.
       | 
       | Exposing yourself to the world comes with its pros and cons.
       | 
       | Attaining celebrity status may make you rich, but at what cost?
       | 
       | Maybe many will turn into paying fans, what about the stalkers,
       | the bullies? What about the mentally disturbed with a knife?
        
         | silicon2401 wrote:
         | This is why I prize anonymity over almost anything else and why
         | I'm very grateful that the tech community tends to value and
         | teach privacy as well. My dream in life is to be filthy rich
         | and disappear my identity to live in isolation somewhere.
         | Filthy rich is a stretch, but thankfully it shouldn't be too
         | hard to live frugally and retire somewhere isolated and remote.
        
         | moreira wrote:
         | This provides a bit of insight into what life as a celebrity
         | might be like. And the more famous, the worse it would be.
         | Imagine never knowing if you're safe going anywhere. You could
         | be fine, or you could come across a stalker fan or a disturbed
         | person with a knife.
        
         | rufus_foreman wrote:
         | >> Attaining celebrity status may make you rich, but at what
         | cost?
         | 
         | "I always want to say to people who want to be rich and famous:
         | 'try being rich first'. See if that doesn't cover most of it".
         | -- Bill Murray
        
         | ghoward wrote:
         | I agree with you about the value of anonymity.
         | 
         | For me, though, I use my real name everywhere because I don't
         | want to be able to hide behind an anonymous identity, and the
         | reason for that is that it's easier to be like the jerks that
         | were mean to this writer when you're anonymous.
         | 
         | Not being anonymous means that I think more carefully about
         | what I am going to say and try, in every instance, to be nice,
         | even if I disagree.
        
       | ta2162 wrote:
       | Scene, hipster, emo, goth, etc. all but disappeared. Most of the
       | people who would have fallen in one of the aforementioned groups
       | a decade ago are now non-binary, gender fluid, etc. They found a
       | way to tie their identity to their humanity so now it's bigoted
       | to scoff and laugh at them.
       | 
       | Have any social psychologists studied this phenomenon? It's a
       | great defense mechanism that seems to be working quite well.
        
         | wizzwizz4 wrote:
         | It's no longer as socially-acceptable to bully strangers for
         | being "weirdos". Is that it?
         | 
         | > _Scene, hipster, emo, goth, etc. all but disappeared._
         | 
         | Have you not noticed what's replaced these? We have hundreds of
         | subcultures: weebs, dank memers, bronies, demoscene,
         | lifehackers, outside, Bitcoin, competitive Pokemon... What
         | you're seeing is a change in who you're bullying, not a change
         | in reality.
        
           | ta2162 wrote:
           | >It's no longer as socially-acceptable to bully strangers for
           | being "weirdos". Is that it?
           | 
           | Not at all. People/children still bully each other, always
           | have, always will. Now they can easily bully each other
           | through social media, relentlessly.
           | 
           | >Have you not noticed what's replaced these? We have hundreds
           | of subcultures: weebs, dank memers, bronies, demoscene,
           | lifehackers, outside, Bitcoin, competitive Pokemon... What
           | you're seeing is a change in who you're bullying, not a
           | change in reality.
           | 
           | You may have missed the "etc." part of my original post.
           | Weebs, bronies, Pokemon/gamers, etc. were all alive and well
           | during the scene/emo/etc. times, they weren't "replaced",
           | they live concurrently.
           | 
           | Something else is going on, but it's definitely not "bullying
           | is no longer socially-acceptable". It hasn't been "socially-
           | acceptable" for decades at this point.
        
             | wizzwizz4 wrote:
             | > _Something else is going on,_
             | 
             | Large groups have broken into smaller groups because people
             | are less required to be a part of a large group to be
             | accepted.
        
             | wearywanderer wrote:
             | > _Something else is going on_
             | 
             | Scenes require supporting media. In the age of print and
             | broadcast, access to media was comparably limited.
             | Consequently, the number of scenes was comparably limited.
             | The "something" that happened was the general public
             | learning how the internet could be used to easily publish
             | media for as many scenes as people could think of. It's now
             | feasible for individuals to globally publish media
             | regardless of how many other people are interested in it.
        
               | wizzwizz4 wrote:
               | I've changed my mind in favour of this explanation. I
               | knew "the internet" had something to do with it, but I
               | thought it was about socialisation; the cultural
               | artefacts explanation neatly explains internet memes,
               | too, so it's probably more right.
        
         | bob_roberts wrote:
         | I don't know if the connection is that direct or causal, but
         | I'm NB and went through a punk/goth phase in high school, and
         | part of the appeal was that it's an "acceptable" way to be
         | gender non-conforming. (At least within that particular
         | subculture.)
         | 
         | Having a name for something can be powerful.
        
         | filoleg wrote:
         | >Scene, hipster, emo, goth, etc. all but disappeared.
         | 
         | I don't know where you have been for over the past 5 years, but
         | not only did some of those not disappear, they had a massive
         | resurgence (in the US/Canada, at least).
         | 
         | "Emo rap" has been all the hotness over the past 5 years, just
         | look at artists like Lil Uzi Vert or Frank Ocean. Skrillex, one
         | of the most successful producers and artists of our time, went
         | back to his original emo rock band and recorded a single with
         | them to a wide applause. Goth-related discussions have seen
         | continuous increase in numbers on social media.
         | 
         | >Most of the people who would have fallen in one of the
         | aforementioned groups a decade ago are now non-binary, gender
         | fluid, etc.
         | 
         | I don't see how those things are mutually exclusive. Plenty of
         | non-binary/genderfluid/etc. people would count themselves as a
         | part of those groups, just like cis/straight people would.
         | 
         | I will give it to you with scene and hipsters disappearing, but
         | "hipster" as a term has been used almost always with negative
         | connotations (as others in this thread have pointed out already
         | the specifics of why people scoffed at "hipsters" as used the
         | term as an insult). Even at the peak of popularity of that
         | term, I don't recall almost anyone using it to refer to
         | themselves, though this point is entirely subjective and
         | anecdotal on my end.
         | 
         | The point you were trying to make would have been indeed
         | interesting to look into, if the reality matched a bit closer
         | with what you were claiming was happening to those
         | emo/goth/etc. groups.
        
         | handrous wrote:
         | The topic's getting you downvoted, but this perspective
         | suddenly makes a lot of what my wife's observed among middle-
         | schoolers in the last 3-4 years make a _ton_ more sense.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | bingidingi wrote:
         | There are plenty of new ones all the time; egirls, fuckboys,
         | vsco girls, streamers, influencers, incels, you can also be
         | "basic", "based", etc... it's possible you're not seeing it as
         | much because you're getting older and these are adolescent
         | tribes
        
       | sambroner wrote:
       | I remember seeing this in person when walking around the highline
       | around this time. I was with my SO and we thought it was cute,
       | hipster-y, and fun.
       | 
       | What's interesting to me is that we had some of the same
       | sentiments that were expressed so negatively on reddit, but in a
       | very positive light? Crazy how the anonymity and lack of context
       | can easily influence folks to be so negative.
        
       | lewsid wrote:
       | My friend's roommate dated him and I used to hang out at their
       | place a lot in Brooklyn. Super nice guy! It was in the years
       | after this happened, and he was still typing stories for
       | strangers. I respected that then, and I continue to now.
        
       | mkaic wrote:
       | This article was excellent! I feel sorry that the author had to
       | go through all that. It's made me realize and regret some of the
       | times I personally have negatively snap-judged a person on the
       | Interwebz based on just one context-devoid picture with too many
       | upvotes.
       | 
       | Tribalism is a heck of a drug. Easy to get involved in, satisfies
       | our primal instincts, and is frequently horribly destructive. I
       | hope one day I can have enough discipline to not criticize every
       | stranger on Twitter.
        
         | moreira wrote:
         | I find it best to try never to say anything negative online,
         | and certainly not attack anyone. I have my own opinions, and I
         | can share them with those close to me. There's nothing to be
         | gained from saying anything negative in public, no matter how
         | you feel.
        
       | rchaud wrote:
       | Well-written article. I believe I actually saw that image a long
       | time ago.
       | 
       | This kind of context-free Reddit post often leads to cascading
       | levels of verbal abuse. All that these kinds of post do, and all
       | it is intended to do, is to incite a hail of abusive comments
       | with a lot of self-righteous sanctimony thrown in.
       | 
       | This was the raison d'etre of now-banned subs like
       | r/fatpeoplehate. People had their photos posted without their
       | permission, for no other reason than for posters to abuse them
       | for all their perceived personality failings (lack of willpower,
       | laziness, entitlement) --- all on the basis of one photo, of a
       | person they've never met.
        
       | Jun8 wrote:
       | Ohboyohboyohboy, it seems I dodged bullet with an idea that I had
       | 5-6 years ago that was very similar to this guy's: My idea was to
       | sit beside a sign that said something along the lines of
       | "Celebrate yourself Through Poetry" in the morning in downtown
       | Chicago in front of a large office building. People going in
       | would commission a poem in the morning, I would finish it and
       | write it in calligraphy on a nice piece of paper by 4pm for a
       | fixed cost, say $20. They would either buy or not buy the poem
       | after I show it to them. A poor person's Francois Villon, if you
       | will.
       | 
       | I've never mentioned this to anyone other than my wife (who used
       | to work in that building) and she laughed her head off. Now that
       | I write it, I feel like I _might_ do this in the future. What do
       | you think, would you buy such a thing for $20-$30 a piece? OTOH,
       | I 've gotta admit: I think most of the customers would be young
       | women, so that would make me seem _more_ of an object of ridicule
       | / creep than this guy. Still ...
       | 
       | EDIT: OK, now that I've read my entry I feel like I have to admit
       | something that makes the above proposition more insane or
       | interesting, depending on your POV: I cannot write poetry, like
       | _not at all_! My proposed strategy was to lean in to my NLP
       | skills and get software help to find interesting ideas, rhymes,
       | etc. Sort of auto poem creation with human tweaking.
        
         | pmoriarty wrote:
         | You might get some takers if you did it in a college town, but
         | as you probably know poetry is not exactly the hottest selling
         | genre of literature... and finding people that read at all is
         | hard enough.
         | 
         | You'd probably have a much easier time offering to write dirty
         | jokes.. or juggling.
         | 
         | What people want on the streets is a spectacle... the louder
         | and more garish the better.
        
           | Jun8 wrote:
           | I hear you; however, one rarely gets a literary piece, let
           | alone poetry, created specifically for them. _To His Coy
           | Mistress_ may sound formulaic and drab, but what if you are
           | Mary Villiers, who Marvell was tutoring at the time and
           | probably addressed in the poem (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki
           | /Mary_Villiers,_Duchess_of_Buck...)? You probably would view
           | it differently.
        
             | pmoriarty wrote:
             | Give it a try, and please report back. It'll be interesting
             | to hear what your experience is.
        
           | cosmicglee wrote:
           | This is a sadly accurate comment. Please pass the hemlock.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | filoleg wrote:
         | I would totally be willing to pay $20-30 for this, and not in a
         | sense of "object of ridicule". And I would be willing to pay
         | for this on more than one occasion, even.
         | 
         | The service you would be providing has been, in a way, so
         | normalized over the past 5+ years in the digital form (people
         | doing poems/paintings/various other art-related things on
         | commission on public streams; entire successful companies built
         | around a similar premise, just look at Cameo), that your
         | proposition starts sounding more and more "normal" as the time
         | goes.
         | 
         | And I don't care if the poetry is not good, as you claim you
         | have no skills. Authenticity is what matters here. And you are
         | being absolutely self-aware about your skills, which only adds
         | to authenticity. Especially given the more
         | minimalistic/industrial/lo-fi (not related to "lo-fi hiphop"
         | type of stuff) direction that popular art has been moving in
         | for the past few years.
         | 
         | Plus, I am willing to bet that after you do it for a month,
         | even if you did it only for a few days each week, your poetry
         | writing skill would shoot up massively. You use software to
         | assist you? Even cooler, as long as there is still a
         | significant human element in the process, and it ain't just
         | some publicly available software doing 100% of the work for you
         | (because at this point, I could use it myself; there is a
         | reason people pay for concerts instead of listening to
         | perfectly recorded and mastered music replayed on speakers at
         | concert venues).
         | 
         | I will say this, though. Given it is a physical version of that
         | successful digital approach i've mentioned, you got additional
         | pros and cons. The pro is that the physical element makes it
         | feel more "real", thus people are willing to pay more and more
         | often. The con is that your success and viability, at least at
         | first, will very very heavily depend on the location of choice
         | where you are thinking of doing that.
        
         | mechanicum wrote:
         | There's a guy on London's South Bank calls himself the "poetry
         | busker". Types them up on a vintage Remington, wears a top hat.
         | Been there for years.
         | 
         | Right location and nobody will blink.
        
         | david422 wrote:
         | > They would either buy or not buy the poem
         | 
         | Why not just allow them to set their price?
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | scoot wrote:
         | Or... you could read the linked article? It seems that you've
         | completely missed what was being ridiculed, and why.
        
           | Jun8 wrote:
           | I did (I thought my subtle reference of dodging the bullet to
           | a comment to the piece his ex wrote was clever ;-), I was
           | just going on tangentially about an idea similar to the one
           | that he had, which, in retrospect, is more ridicule-worthy.
        
         | silicon2401 wrote:
         | I wouldn't pay for it because I don't like most modern poetry
         | or poets and calligraphy's not worth much to me unless the
         | words it captures are worth it. Maybe if you did calligraphy
         | requests.
         | 
         | However one should be adventurous, especially where there's so
         | little to lose. The subject of the OP is easy to ridicule
         | because he looks conventionally nerdy/dweeby and has a flipping
         | typewriter at a park. Just dress normally and be friendly and
         | you'll just be a street artist doing calligraphy instead of
         | caricatures, nothing to laugh at
        
       | MrLeap wrote:
       | I'm making a game around the pretense that people would enjoy
       | watching someone do this online. It's cool that people are into
       | it in person.
       | 
       | https://store.steampowered.com/app/1537490/Tentacle_Typer/
        
       | cko wrote:
       | I'm glad I saw this. While reading and feeling bad for him, I
       | wondered what I would have done if I saw that reddit pic without
       | context, and then read the mob of comments.
       | 
       | Perhaps I would have upvoted some mean comments, or laughed at
       | them, or maybe shared the link with a friend, hoping to invite
       | more ridicule. I wish I could say I'd be some of the people
       | defending it, or even better, someone who doesn't click on such
       | posts.
        
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