[HN Gopher] Drug Users Use a Lot of Drugs
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Drug Users Use a Lot of Drugs
        
       Author : feross
       Score  : 88 points
       Date   : 2021-06-09 19:17 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (astralcodexten.substack.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (astralcodexten.substack.com)
        
       | zafka wrote:
       | Thank you. While there is no data to back up some of these
       | numbers, at least they are offered up. I have often wondered what
       | amounts Meth addicts were using do cause their severe issues.
        
         | wincy wrote:
         | My neighbors teeth are falling out. Salesman, honestly pretty
         | successful guy, making 6 figures. Apparently he takes 120mg if
         | Adderall to wake up in the morning. At that dose, he's
         | basically just getting Walter White quality meth for his
         | morning pick me up.
        
           | throwaway0a5e wrote:
           | His teeth are far more likely to be falling out because of
           | bad oral hygiene for a decade earlier in life than they are
           | because of a low dose of Adderal or anything.
           | 
           | If 120mg of Adderal made your teeth fall out then tons more
           | people would have their teeth falling out.
        
             | thebean11 wrote:
             | lol at 120 being a low dose. You start on 10-20.
        
             | wincy wrote:
             | To be clear, 120mg is what he takes first thing in the
             | morning. He takes more throughout the day. I'd guess he
             | takes 500+ in a day.
        
               | arthurcolle wrote:
               | That is impossible. There is no one someone's heart would
               | be able to take that. I take 60 mg daily of Vyvanse and
               | I'm pretty wired all day. I can't even fathom the effects
               | of that on a human body.
               | 
               | Is he like 300 lbs?
        
               | cwkoss wrote:
               | 500mg/day was the figure cited for heavy users in the OP
               | article.
               | 
               | You're right that 500mg is far into overdose territory
               | for novice users. But, he probably has been using for a
               | long time and has a very high tolerance.
        
             | kache_ wrote:
             | Are there "tons of people" seriously taking 120mg of
             | adderall?
        
               | arthurcolle wrote:
               | No, that is far beyond the daily dosage threshold.
               | 
               | Even 90 is extremely high for XR, and would probably be
               | broken into 2 45 doses throughout the day.
        
           | boomboomsubban wrote:
           | The max approved prescribed dose is 60mg per day, so at that
           | point he's probably doing something illegal.
        
             | wincy wrote:
             | Oh for sure, the reason I found out about it is that he
             | asked to buy mine, and I declined. I have too much to lose,
             | a wife a kid and a good job, to be slinging Schedule 2
             | drugs for a couple hundred bucks a month. Plus I actually
             | take my dose as prescribed. He moved away though, thank
             | goodness.
        
       | trestenhortz wrote:
       | I watched a documentary about ketamine use by party people.
       | 
       | It profiled a young guy who had destroyed his bladder and needed
       | to use a pump and hole in his belly to urinate.
       | 
       | Really disturbing.
        
         | PicassoCTs wrote:
         | Oh, that is just peritoneal-dialysis. Lots of people do that
         | when there kidneys are shut and they want to continue a
         | "normal" life without constant blood dialysis via machine.
         | 
         | The real con here is that you must limit your intake of fluids
         | drastically
        
         | vmception wrote:
         | My problem with that, and this article, is that it doesn't say
         | what dosage does that?
         | 
         | It just skips right on to meth, and dosages, and never mentions
         | Ketamine again.
         | 
         | We get that 280mg a month mostly doesn't, and 90,000mg a month
         | can.
         | 
         | But are these "party people" the _same_ as the people doing
         | that higher amount prorated to daily? More specifically, are
         | the  "party people" I've been around secretly having bladder
         | problems and getting a hole in their belly and not really
         | ubering home but ubering to the hospital?
         | 
         | Let me know when you, or anyone passing by, find that article
        
           | kriskrunch wrote:
           | I've known many users over the years, many OD while others
           | decay over a few years.
           | 
           | One customer in particular used ketamine heavily. Due to a
           | string of poor decisions, he was on federal probation and
           | subjected to random drug tests.
           | 
           | He determined two drugs were not detectible by the tests at
           | that time: ketamine and GHB. And he frequently consumed them.
           | I remember him stumbling around my store, sipping caps of G
           | every so often... sniffling behind tall pallets to suck up
           | another key bump.
           | 
           | Over a year or so, he developed severe problems with his
           | bladder, but wouldn't / couldn't stop his drug use, even
           | after I broke it down to him plainly; "Bro, you are killing
           | yourself."
           | 
           | From what I can tell, users don't keep track of doses, or
           | much of anything. Their objectives are short term in nature:
           | get high asap.
           | 
           | I suspect any such article that provides hard numbers like
           | what you want will provide guestimates at best.
        
             | vmception wrote:
             | So we can improve the data by regulating the supply chain,
             | serving sizes, and points of sale
             | 
             | Doesnt seem to support enforcing varying levels of
             | prohibition
        
       | cwkoss wrote:
       | I think another major factor that this article didn't point out
       | is drug purity - and what those specific impurities are.
       | 
       | Particularly with drugs like meth, which can be manufactured
       | clandestinely by people who don't understand chemistry well,
       | there are a lot of intermediates or potential reaction byproducts
       | which are orders of magnitude more cardiotoxic or otherwise more
       | harmful than pure methamphetamine. And that's before you get into
       | the potential toxicity of any intentionally-added cutting agents.
       | 
       | I think ketamine synthesis is more involved, so it's likely that
       | illegally manufactured ketamine is comparatively cleaner than
       | illegally manufactured meth, but illicit ketamine is still
       | probably harder on your body than pharmaceutical grade for the
       | same reasons.
       | 
       | Illegal drug manufacturers have a moderate economic pressure to
       | increase purity, but - short of not immediately killing users and
       | losing your customer base - they have little economic incentive
       | to ensure that the impurities that remain in the final product
       | are safe or inert.
       | 
       | Yes, 500mgs of meth a day is almost certainly not good for your
       | health. But these studies are usually not able to control for
       | purity of the meth that is consumed, so I expect for these
       | studies finding adverse effects of chronic use - at least some
       | portion of this effect size is a result of purity issues rather
       | than purely based on dosage.
        
       | heisenbit wrote:
       | Drug processing in the body can sometimes be surprising. I
       | learned recently about first pass effect which means the drug
       | heads first to the liver and only what passes through is
       | available to the body. So if one ups the dose and the liver
       | processing is saturated a double dose can deliver much more punch
       | than two single ones. The body has many non-linear features and
       | extrapolating several orders of magnitude is often not possible.
        
         | cwkoss wrote:
         | Yep, this is why "boofing" (intrarectal) dosing has found
         | rising popularity in the 'research chemical' scene over the
         | past couple decades.
         | 
         | The liver's effects on drugs is really fascinating. Grapefruit
         | has a chemical that can inactive liver enzymes, so some drug
         | addicts regularly drink grapefruit juice to 'get more bang for
         | their buck'. Plain old black pepper (in large doses)
         | inactivates a different enzyme IIRC.
         | 
         | There are also some interesting anecdotal cases of people who
         | claim to have found regimens of essential oils, which when
         | consumed at the right schedule saturate liver enzymes to the
         | extent that otherwise inert substances can produce
         | recreationally psychoactive effects.
         | 
         | Source: i have a morbid fascination with the 'frontier non-
         | medical drug use' communities and follow their subreddits
         | (/r/researchchemicals and /r/peptides being among the most
         | interesting). There a lot of people who choose to make
         | themselves guinea pigs quite recklessly and, thankfully for
         | scientific advancement and future harm reduction, post in-depth
         | reports of how these novel chemicals or preparations effected
         | them. Recently, broad cheap availability of novel benzos have
         | led many posters to deep addictions of such great magnitude
         | that they struggle to convince doctors assisting with detox
         | that they've _actually_ been consuming equivalents of 1000x
         | typical prescribed doses... until the doctor gives them massive
         | doses of valium to detox and they still have severe seizures.
        
           | whymauri wrote:
           | >There are also some interesting anecdotal cases of people
           | who claim to have found regimens of essential oils, which
           | when consumed at the right schedule saturate liver enzymes to
           | the extent that otherwise inert substances can produce
           | recreationally psychoactive effects.
           | 
           | Are essential oils literally oils? Because I doubt they can
           | have a metabolic effect due to their size and lipophilicity.
           | My main concern is adsorption. But if they're small and
           | greasy, then they may be promiscuous binders.
           | 
           | Or do the essential oils carry other molecules along?
           | 
           | Edit: I see now that individual oils carry many diverse
           | constituents, including some small-to-medium sized lads.
           | That's a pretty interesting shotgun strategy for controlling
           | your metabolism, lol.
        
       | Alex3917 wrote:
       | Somehow he managed to ignore the data showing that a non-trivial
       | percentage of people with KLUTS get it after only doing doses
       | comparable to the psychiatric dose, and sometimes after only
       | doing it once or a handful of times.
       | 
       | https://erowid.org/chemicals/ketamine/ketamine_article2.shtm...
        
         | loves_mangoes wrote:
         | I'll add my anecdote to the pile. I don't use ketamine a lot
         | (it is not very good for headaches, pretty good for dulling a
         | mosquito bite until it fades away naturally, excellent for
         | dancing).
         | 
         | I've taken about 1000mg over the course of several months, at
         | irregular intervals. While it is somewhat higher than Scott's
         | 280mg/month, it's not an order of magnitude higher. Certainly
         | nowhere near 90,000mg/month.
         | 
         | I can report one event of pain while peeing, a few days ago. So
         | it looks like my body is not built to handle even moderate
         | levels of ketamine use, and I'd have to stay closer to
         | 100mg/month or lower to be on the safe side.
         | 
         | That said, let me reiterate, this is anecdote. I only think
         | it's interesting because there is no other reasonable
         | explanation for my recent urinary pain, and I didn't expect
         | such low doses of Ketamine to have noticeable effects.
        
           | Alex3917 wrote:
           | Yeah I think I gave myself some minor bladder damage just by
           | drinking iced mint tea (since it's such a strong diuretic),
           | so I can't imagine I'd react well to ketamine even in small
           | doses.
        
           | cwkoss wrote:
           | > pretty good for dulling a mosquito bite until it fades away
           | naturally
           | 
           | Applied topically? Or in the sense that the anesthetic
           | disassociative effects dull most sensations?
        
             | loves_mangoes wrote:
             | I did try rubbing some crushed powder to the bite, but
             | could not notice any effect before I got impatient.
             | Ketamine on my tongue has an instant numbing effect, but to
             | my knowledge nothing transdermaly.
             | 
             | I took it insufflated, the short duration of action and
             | general anesthesia makes it decently practical.
             | 
             | (Of course it sounds pretty silly to recommend Ketamine for
             | a small everyday itch. But that's what I had on hand, and I
             | happen to dislike mosquitos with a very particular
             | intensity =] )
        
       | canary1 wrote:
       | This article is mostly weak opinion. There was one important
       | takeaway, which is notable to anyone interested in ketamine:
       | 
       | > I hesitate to say the risk of bladder injury from a normal
       | psychiatric dose of ketamine is literally zero
        
         | daperor630 wrote:
         | >I hesitate to say the risk of bladder injury from a normal
         | psychiatric dose of ketamine is literally zero.
         | 
         | The author's hesitation to make such a claim is very important
         | to this quote.
        
       | Impassionata wrote:
       | It's hard to read Scott once you hear about how he courted the
       | alt-right on purpose and his communities became full of open
       | racists as a result.
        
         | arijun wrote:
         | Do you have a source for that? Beyond the NYT piece, which is
         | so laughable it does hit pieces a disservice by being grouped
         | with them.
        
           | wizzwizz4 wrote:
           | The NYT piece didn't even say that; it said that he supported
           | genocide (??), which is similar, but I don't remember it
           | saying that he courted neo-Nazis. (Or was that one of the
           | heavily-implied things I was oblivious to?)
        
             | arijun wrote:
             | Perhaps it was more implying they were welcomed?
             | 
             | > The voices also included white supremacists and neo-
             | fascists. The only people who struggled to be heard... were
             | "social justice warriors."
        
           | Impassionata wrote:
           | There's some leaked emails where he plainly states he's
           | chasing that audience. https://web.archive.org/web/2021021719
           | 5335/https://twitter.c...
           | 
           | I wouldn't say he's racist but it's almost worse. He didn't
           | think about how this would go down, which is to say, when you
           | court an audience that has a reputation of being overtly
           | racist, your audience will become more and more racist,
           | driving good people out.
        
             | arijun wrote:
             | I couldn't read Scott's email at your link but I could
             | here: https://twitter.com/arsonatdennys/status/136215319110
             | 2677001
             | 
             | I don't think his reasoning is that crazy here--I certainly
             | don't see it as the smoking gun that you or the person who
             | tweeted it do. I also haven't noticed a huge amount of
             | racists in his comment section, although I have to admit I
             | haven't spent all that much time on the blog.
        
         | BurningFrog wrote:
         | It shouldn't be hard for a grownup to read his texts even if
         | that were true.
        
           | Impassionata wrote:
           | It's not that it's hard to read his texts, and sometimes
           | there's still some good stuff in there. It's that once
           | someone shows bad judgment you have to think about how that
           | manifests, and that manifests in poor thinking that's well-
           | disguised.
           | 
           | Once you know a clock is broken don't use it to tell the
           | time.
        
             | BurningFrog wrote:
             | Yeah, I guess I somewhat deliberately misinterpreted you. I
             | should know better...
             | 
             | I'm pretty sure you've been lied to about this though.
             | 
             | That Twitter link is mostly unreadable, but what's in human
             | font size is just vague gossip from some angry dude on
             | Twitter.
        
               | agentwiggles wrote:
               | I also followed up on the link. I was able to open the
               | image links in separate tabs to get them to load. There's
               | a whole bunch of commentary from Scott there that I'd say
               | is worth reading to understand where impassionata is
               | coming from. I don't personally agree with their take,
               | but there _is_ actual substantive content at the link.
        
           | commandlinefan wrote:
           | And that's "Mr. Alexander" to you, GP.
        
             | Impassionata wrote:
             | ... nah.
        
         | agentwiggles wrote:
         | I've read a lot of his stuff and have never heard about that.
         | Would you want to provide a link that supports your claim, so I
         | can make an informed decision about continuing to read his
         | generally good, substantive, and interesting content?
        
           | Impassionata wrote:
           | There's some leaked emails where he plainly states he's
           | chasing that audience. https://web.archive.org/web/2021021719
           | 5335/https://twitter.c...
           | 
           | I wouldn't say he's racist but it's almost worse. He didn't
           | think about how this would go down, which is to say, when you
           | court an audience that has a reputation of being overtly
           | racist, your audience will become more and more racist,
           | driving good people out.
        
             | agentwiggles wrote:
             | I read through the comments he made in the images attached
             | to those tweets, and I don't personally find what he's
             | saying there to be especially problematic. I certainly
             | don't read anything he's saying there as being motivated by
             | racism, hatred, or alt-right political views.
             | 
             | I still really appreciate you backing up your post with a
             | link and the chance to dig into his sources. Thanks for the
             | link.
        
               | Impassionata wrote:
               | >I don't personally find what he's saying there to be
               | especially problematic.
               | 
               | And you're right in theory; in _theory_ it 's fine to
               | give people a chance to express their opinion. In
               | _theory_ the out-of-mainstream views have some insight
               | that 's worth the questionable bits.
               | 
               | But in practice, what Scott Alexander did was cultivate a
               | community of racists. He provided a platform, he provided
               | cover for them.
               | 
               | From a purely consequential point of view Scott
               | Alexander's political writing has been a detriment.
               | Surely no one would consider "My community is well known
               | as a racist gathering spot" a successful outcome.
               | 
               | It's not just the cost of doing business with regard to
               | free speech norms, it's a poor application of free speech
               | norms reproducing basic racism.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | newbie789 wrote:
       | Former meth addict here.
       | 
       | > The average crystal meth addict uses about 500 mg a day. And
       | they snort it, which probably produces about double the peak
       | plasma level as taking it orally. So they're getting the
       | equivalent of 1000 mg oral amphetamine daily...
       | 
       | 500mg sounds about right, but from my experience the most common
       | route of administration (in the western United States at least)
       | is smoking, not snorting.
       | 
       |  _Because_ so many people smoke meth rather than snort it, a lot
       | of meth is sold as methamphetamine base rather than
       | methamphetamine hydrochloride.
       | 
       | This means that it's often not particularly water soluble, which
       | makes it a poor choice for snorting since it doesn't get through
       | your nasal mucosa and actually kicks in after it drips down into
       | your stomach. It's not actually much different from eating it in
       | many cases.
       | 
       | I like this article overall but I get irritated when I read stuff
       | about drug users that is clearly written by somebody who hasn't
       | done a lot of drugs.
       | 
       | Edited for spelling. Also if anybody has any questions for me,
       | I'm pretty knowledgeable on this topic (though no expert), so
       | feel free to ask away!
        
         | sharken wrote:
         | Must admit the specifics of doing drugs is not that interesting
         | to me, it's more interesting to ask the question:
         | 
         | How does someone stop doing drugs?
        
           | agentdrtran wrote:
           | You may get the best answer to that question from people who
           | have stopped rather than never started.
        
           | newbie789 wrote:
           | I was incredibly lucky. I got to a point where I felt like I
           | wanted to stop (which happens often to a lot of addicts),
           | which coincided with an opportunity to move far away from my
           | hometown, and then also coincidentally found myself
           | surrounded by a fantastic support system. It's the addict
           | equivalent of flipping a quarter 50 times and having them all
           | come up head.
           | 
           | As for a general answer to your question, there isn't one
           | that I'm aware of. Everyone I know that's gotten clean has
           | wildly different stories.
        
             | bufordtwain wrote:
             | Can you provide more details on what the "fantastic support
             | system" consists of?
        
               | newbie789 wrote:
               | I found myself in a very accepting friend group of people
               | that didn't use drugs and (for my situation this was key)
               | didn't know where to get them.
               | 
               | Aside from that, there was no shaming and very little
               | drama. Essentially, my previous situation was that I was
               | surrounded by extremely abusive family and dangerously
               | messed up friends. I more or less made friends with
               | "normal" people, got away from a really bad situation and
               | it all just sort of... worked out.
               | 
               | There's absolutely no secret sauce or trick in my getting
               | clean. I can't count the number of my old friends that
               | tried stuff like I did and it didn't work out.
               | 
               | It was literally just luck.
        
           | brutal_chaos_ wrote:
           | A strong desire to quit and a big support network (family,
           | friends, recovery centers, etc). We tend to look down on
           | addicts, when in fact, we probably should be looking to help.
           | And the more help there is, the better chance someone will
           | have quitting/recovery. Support also means real support, not
           | a parent there because they have to and so they have disgust
           | on their face, nope nope nope, that can make things worse.
        
         | beebeepka wrote:
         | Do regular users also get super horny but unable to perform
         | due... shrinkage?
        
           | newbie789 wrote:
           | Yes. Erectile dysfunction drugs were common in my friend
           | group.
        
         | tomcam wrote:
         | Might be a regional thing? I was raised in Southern California,
         | where is smoking is also the preferred method. I believe OP is
         | from New York City. For all we know perhaps inhaling what his
         | upper middle class cohort does.
        
           | marton78 wrote:
           | OP is from California.
        
       | grawprog wrote:
       | This article isn't bad, but it's a very shallow, narrow view of
       | things.
       | 
       | In general it seems to make no distinction with addicts using
       | high doses to overcome tolerance levels with recreational drug
       | users in general.
       | 
       | Methamphetamines and amphetamines are not the same chemical,
       | despite being similar.
       | 
       | https://methoide.fcm.arizona.edu/infocenter/index.cfm?stid=1...
       | 
       | The small differences between the molecules allow it to penetrate
       | the blood brain barrier more efficiently, has longer lasting
       | toxic effects and acts more as a central nervous system stimulant
       | and
       | 
       | >less peripheral nervous system and cardiovascular stimulation
       | activity. Another difference between amphetamine and MA is that
       | amphetamine stimulates the CNS indirectly by activating the
       | release of catecholamines and inhibiting their breakdown and
       | storage. In contrast, MA stimulates the postsynaptic
       | catecholamine receptors directly.[2]
       | 
       | Increased dosage is only one part of the difference between
       | Methamphetamine and Amphetamines. Street meth is also far more
       | likely to have fillers, leftover solvents and a bunch of other
       | things that are not good for you.
       | 
       | >In general, recreational drug users take their drugs at doses so
       | much higher than psychiatric patients that they're basically two
       | different chemicals
       | 
       | Recreational drug users come in a wide range. The first two
       | sections of the article speak about addicts doing extremely large
       | doses, then seems to lump 'recreational drug users' altogether
       | with that.
        
       | rogerclark wrote:
       | "The most important reason meth makes your teeth fall out and
       | ruins your life but Adderall just makes you study a little harder
       | is that the meth users are taking 50x higher doses"
       | 
       | The reason meth addicts have bad teeth isn't because of the
       | dosage of the drug. It's because stimulants make you want to eat
       | candy and drink sugar water, because meth addicts lose track of
       | oral hygiene in favor of doing meth or something else more
       | interesting, and because they're smoking it (along with other
       | drugs).
        
         | canary1 wrote:
         | Regardless, I think the author's point is that the massive dose
         | is more responsible for that negative outcome than the chemical
         | is itself.
        
         | peanut_worm wrote:
         | Stimulants suppress your appetite but they also make you clench
         | you jaw and grind your teeth involuntarily.
        
           | beebeepka wrote:
           | You mean amphetamines, not stimulants in general. I've seen
           | people do much worse when they mix this shit with alcohol,
           | the worst offender that is still perfectly legal
        
             | peanut_worm wrote:
             | What non-amphetemine stimulants are people doing
             | recreationally?
        
               | MagnumOpus wrote:
               | Cocaine? MDMA?
        
               | loves_mangoes wrote:
               | 2C-B. Cathinones and other pyrovalerones.
               | 
               | Some people even seem to enjoy absorbing Coffee through
               | their nose.
        
         | newbie789 wrote:
         | Meth does not make you crave any type of food. If that were the
         | case Desoxyn would not be FDA approved for weight loss.
         | 
         | "Meth mouth" is caused by the fact that it dries your mouth
         | out, you grind your teeth a LOT, and is often observed in
         | people that have used drugs long/hard enough to find themselves
         | no longer taking care of their health in general, let alone
         | oral hygiene. This often is coupled with financial ruin and
         | utter alienation from society. Somehow, mysteriously, all of
         | the rich house wives and Silicon Valley coders that use it
         | develop meth mouth at a lower rate.
        
         | whymauri wrote:
         | The reason there's confusion in this thread about dosage is
         | that the author didn't use precise terminology (the author is
         | technically correct, but there's ambiguity). I'm pretty sure he
         | means that the recreational dose is relatively larger compared
         | to the effective dose (ED) with meth than with Adderall.
        
         | bawolff wrote:
         | Adderall is also a stimulant(?) The authors suggestion is it
         | would cause the same effect if taken in the same dosage.
        
           | treeman79 wrote:
           | I was on Adderall 10mg a day. Worked as advertised. ADHD
           | under control. Chronic fatigue fixed.
           | 
           | Every portion of my body felt like it was being burned from
           | the inside. I had to start tramadol to counter act the pain.
           | 
           | It also upped cranial pressure. Causing a lot of secondary
           | problems.
           | 
           | This was made much worse as dosage went up.
           | 
           | I had to stop it before downward spiral completely destroyed
           | me.
           | 
           | Vyvanse was a mild version of all this.
           | 
           | Can't imagine anything more intense.
        
           | skummetmaelk wrote:
           | They are both amphetamines.
        
         | TX0098812 wrote:
         | ...because they're taking 50x the dose?
        
         | shredprez wrote:
         | Also: dehydration and dry-mouth secondary to stimulant use,
         | classic accelerators of bacterial overgrowth and consequent
         | tooth decay.
        
           | KingMachiavelli wrote:
           | Truth. It's highly variable but even Adderall will accelerate
           | tooth decay. It's quite necessary to drink water very
           | frequently.
        
         | kingTug wrote:
         | This isn't correct. Meth, when smoked, is incredibly toxic. The
         | toxic smoke that causes "meth mouth"
        
           | volkl48 wrote:
           | While I am certainly willing to believe that illicit meth
           | is...bad for you/toxic and the smoke is as well, I'm not
           | finding much to support the idea of it being the primary
           | cause of (or major contributor to) "meth mouth" in a quick
           | search.
           | 
           | In contrast, every source I find cites the things the prior
           | poster mentioned as the causes.
           | 
           | For example:
           | 
           | https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-
           | reports/meth...
           | 
           | > The dental problems may be caused by a combination of poor
           | nutrition and dental hygiene as well as dry mouth and teeth
           | grinding caused by the drug.
           | 
           | I would think they would be mentioning that the toxic smoke
           | is a cause or contributor if there was evidence to support
           | it.
        
         | Nuzzerino wrote:
         | Street meth also has a lot of adulterants, contaminants, or
         | byproducts that can accelerate the damage.
        
       | golergka wrote:
       | There's recreational drug users, and then there's recreational
       | drug users. Turns out some people I know who microdosed
       | amphetamine took doses exactly in the ballpark of what doctor
       | would prescribe them.
        
         | dnate wrote:
         | There always are, for any drug.
         | 
         | There is the person that uses amphetamines to get high SAT
         | scores, high college grades and stops after landing a FAANG
         | job.
         | 
         | There is the person using alcohol as "social lube". Never
         | drinks alone, never gets wasted.
         | 
         | There is the person using LSD and other party drugs few times
         | per year or less in a controlled setting
         | 
         | And then there are the extremely addicted people. And
         | everything in between. It's a sliding scale. People need to be
         | educated to learn the risks and recognize harmful behavioral
         | patterns.
         | 
         | Simply telling people "drugs are bad for you" might be the
         | abridged version of the truth. But is as effective as the "war
         | on drugs" in reducing drug abuse.
        
       | droopyEyelids wrote:
       | This is a great article, and it could be also be expanded to
       | include the 'whale' effect.
       | 
       | I'm not just talking about how a small percent of users spend the
       | most on loot-box games, but also how the top 10% of drinkers
       | consume 50% of all the alcohol sold in the USA.
       | 
       | I also believe it must apply to people who use cannabis, as a
       | 'dab' setup allows a heavy user to inhale in one breath what
       | would literally be 50 sessions worth of doses for an infrequent
       | smoker.
       | 
       | This isn't necessarily the same topic as what the author wrote,
       | but I'd like to see someone explore the connection.
        
         | oogetyboogety wrote:
         | I mean, not literally 50. Like 3 times the potency, maybe 5 or
         | 6 times the potency of whatever your state average black
         | market, grey market, or illegally grown crop is.
         | 
         | It's important to clear up the FUD here because it has led to
         | some backwards progress for legalization in states like
         | Colorado recently.
        
           | droopyEyelids wrote:
           | Let's say you use a 0.5 g dab which has a THC content of 70%
           | (most dabs are either 1-gram or 0.5 g). The wax has 0.35 g
           | (350 mg of THC), but you could lose up to one-third of it
           | when vaporizing. If this happens, you'll end up with roughly
           | 235 mg of THC per hit (if you can finish the whole dab in one
           | hit).
           | 
           | Someone without a THC tolerance will be completely satisfied
           | with a 5mg dose, total.
           | 
           | Thats 47 doses out of the 236mg the stoner _absorbed_
        
             | sgspace wrote:
             | I don't know anyone who is doing half gram dabs lol. That's
             | like $25 in one hit. A gram of concentrate is supposed to
             | last a while (20+ dabs) not a single hit or two.
        
               | notional wrote:
               | A gram of wax lasts me probably 50+ hits. It seriously
               | lasts a long time. A tiny little crumb you can pinch out
               | of the jar is more than enough for a big hit
        
             | abstractbarista wrote:
             | Just have to say, a half gram dab is a _fat dab_. I 'm sure
             | some people do vaporize all of that at once. However, even
             | with complete inhalation and 'swishing' it in their lungs,
             | they will be wasting a lot of it on the exhale.
        
               | Zutano wrote:
               | 'Swishing' in their lungs? I've never heard of that, how
               | does someone even do that?
        
               | pixelbro wrote:
               | I presume he's referring to repeatedly exhaling and
               | inhaling a tiny amount to keep circulating smoke in the
               | lungs without losing any to the air. Can't speak for its
               | effectiveness.
        
             | chasebank wrote:
             | I bought and smoked a 'CBD' joint the other day. 0.47% THC,
             | 15% CBD. I think the lady told me a typical joint is 15-25%
             | THC. I was uncomfortably high.
        
               | meetups323 wrote:
               | FWIW, it's not like a cigarette, you don't need to smoke
               | the whole thing in one go. You can get little storage
               | tubes and take a couple puffs and you should be much
               | better off. I've had J's last multiple days like this.
        
               | jjulius wrote:
               | Had you ever smoked marijuana prior to that?
        
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