[HN Gopher] Show HN: Open-source conversational platform and uni...
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       Show HN: Open-source conversational platform and unified messaging
       APIs
        
       Author : skandergarroum
       Score  : 92 points
       Date   : 2021-06-09 10:09 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (airy.co)
 (TXT) w3m dump (airy.co)
        
       | skandergarroum wrote:
       | Hey HN!
       | 
       | After four years of development, we are happy to share Airy with
       | you.
       | 
       | Airy is an Open Source Conversational Platform to store,
       | structure and utilize conversational data in a secure and
       | privacy-compliant way.
       | 
       | With Airy, you can integrate with Conversational AI like Rasa to
       | train smarter models based on actual conversations.
       | 
       | You can host your own open source messaging API to enable your
       | developers to build conversational experiences even for privacy-
       | sensitive industries, such as banking, insurance or healthcare.
       | Airy's core platform is fully open source and runs in your own
       | cloud or even on premise.
       | 
       | We built Airy on Apache Kafka for ultimate scalability, so you
       | can ingest and stream all kinds of conversational data to:
       | 
       | unify your messaging channels include human agents via an Inbox
       | UI gain insights from Conversational Analytics
       | 
       | Airy has connectors for conversational sources such as:
       | 
       | Facebook Messenger & Instagram Google's Business Messages
       | WhatsApp Business API SMS (via Twilio) Airy Open Source Chat
       | Plugin Custom sources
       | 
       | Check out a short intro video of Airy here:
       | https://youtu.be/zwDosYHitYg
       | 
       | You can start trying it out by reading on our website:
       | https://airy.co/ph
       | 
       | If you like what we are doing, please give us a star on Github:
       | https://github.com/airyhq/airy
       | 
       | And we are of course happy to answer your questions!
        
         | habibur wrote:
         | Couldn't really find pricing info in the pricing page.
        
           | shoellinger wrote:
           | Yeah, maybe the word "free" in "Free Open Source
           | Conversational Infrastructure with Apache 2.0 license" isn't
           | prominent enough. ;)
           | 
           | For Airy Enterprise and Managed Cloud, we usually like to
           | listen to a potential customer's use case first and come up
           | with a custom pricing that makes sense for both sides,
           | usually containing fixed licensing options, volume-based
           | components or even location-based pricing which can make a
           | lot of sense for multi-location enterprises, but rarely works
           | for e-commerce companies.
        
         | artificialLimbs wrote:
         | Any plans to integrate with Teams?
        
           | skandergarroum wrote:
           | hey artificialLimbs! Yes, a Teams integration is on the
           | roadmap, as we plan to support all conversational channels
           | and our data model already supports it. We are working our
           | way through potential channels as we speak, the Teams API was
           | in beta until recently.
           | 
           | If you don't want to wait you can also build your own custom
           | source for Teams in Airy. Take a look at our docs to get
           | started: https://airy.co/docs/core/sources/introduction
           | 
           | We can also jump on a quick tech demo if the need is urgent.
        
         | ROARosen wrote:
         | Hi, looks very promising. I would totally consider switching to
         | this streamlined approach to business conversations. However, I
         | don't see any mention of email. Email is IMHO vital for any
         | service that wishes to 'integrate' the full company
         | conversation stack. Do you plan on adding additional
         | integrations?
        
           | chrismatic wrote:
           | This is a great point! Email is and will remain _the_
           | messaging use case for any business. I've created a ticket
           | for adding email as a messaging source so you can track the
           | progress: https://github.com/airyhq/airy/issues/1953
           | 
           | And yes we do plan on adding more sources and are therefore
           | listening to the community to learn which are most in-demand.
           | So thank you very much for the feedback!
        
             | ROARosen wrote:
             | I'll be on the lookout... Tnx!
        
         | jFriedensreich wrote:
         | congrats! excited to check it out. Also kudso to the apache 2.0
         | this makes it even better.
        
           | skandergarroum wrote:
           | Thanks jFriedensreich! Yes, we are seeing Apache 2.0 as the
           | gold standard for open source licenses and are happy to use
           | it.
        
         | ushakov wrote:
         | very nice! congrats
         | 
         | i have built a similiar thing in the past, called Dialogflow
         | Gateway (https://dialogflow.cloud.ushakov.co), which connects
         | Dialogflow to Web and E-Mail protocols, also open-source
         | 
         | check out my gh profile: https://github.com/mishushakov
         | 
         | i'd be very happy to hear from you, if you're interested in
         | joining forces/collaborating :)
        
           | skandergarroum wrote:
           | Hey there! @Dialogflow Gateway: nice idea and cool showoff
           | cases.
           | 
           | Got some ideas on collaborating, send you an email.
        
       | klpu wrote:
       | Go compare with https://mixin.one/messenger?
        
         | skandergarroum wrote:
         | Airy is a conversational platform, built mostly for businesses:
         | most enterprises have a variety of conversational apps and
         | channels they support (from Facebook Messenger & Instagram for
         | Customer Service to their own livechat for sales, etc). Airy
         | helps these businesses bundle these channels, store the
         | conversations and power the different usecases.
         | 
         | It looks like Mixin is an open source cryptocurrency wallet
         | that also has peer to peer chat and a desktop version. So the
         | only common points I see is that both projects are Open Source
         | and use chat as an interface.
        
       | renrutal wrote:
       | > Airy Enterprise
       | 
       | > * E2E Encryption & Storage
       | 
       | This worries me, I believe it's unethical and irresponsible to
       | pay-wall privacy features.
       | 
       | We live in a world where companies and governments are actively
       | spying and harming those under them.
        
         | cvwright wrote:
         | > We live in a world where companies and governments are
         | actively spying and harming those under them.
         | 
         | Therefore this random company owes you security features for
         | free?
         | 
         | Users wanting free shit is the reason why companies like Google
         | and Facebook are doing all this spying in the first place.
         | Those huge warehouse-size datacenters don't pay for themselves.
        
           | junon wrote:
           | > Therefore this random company owes you security features
           | for free?
           | 
           | Yes.
        
         | donpark wrote:
         | I'd agree in general for consumer use-cases but not for
         | business use-cases. With an open source business tool that may
         | be used in non-business context, charging for features required
         | for business use makes sense.
         | 
         | Even among consumer use-cases, lack of privacy may be a
         | feature. In spatial chat, for example, being in able to
         | overhear conversation within 'earshot' is a feature. Selling
         | private space in that context makes sense and similar to
         | selling improved voice quality, at least to me, and there are
         | stark operational cost boundaries in the involved tech that can
         | complicates the picture.
        
         | pascal-holy wrote:
         | Hi renrutal, Pascal from Airy here. Encryption is a very
         | important topic for us. Since in all our versions all of the
         | data resides in Apache Kafka and is only exposed via Kafka
         | Streams Apps we are able to take advantage of Kafkas SSL
         | encryption. For encryption-at-rest we use our cloud providers
         | disk encryption. We also support Open ID Connect as an identity
         | layer so we can focus on improving our platform and be assured
         | that our authentication is always up to date and secure. You
         | raise a good point though and we will continue innovating to
         | make encryption accessible to everyone.
        
           | kixiQu wrote:
           | Is that E2E, though? I'm not Kafka-knowledgeable, but that
           | sounds like it's encrypted as it gets to your servers and
           | encrypted as it rests on them -- not encrypted all the way
           | between people sending messages.
        
         | shoellinger wrote:
         | Hi renrutal, Steffen from Airy here. Thanks for your remark and
         | I couldn't agree more with you which is why we don't pay-wall
         | privacy features. Actually, nothing stops you from turning on
         | encryption also in the open source version of Airy as Pascal
         | pointed out above.
         | 
         | The topic you mentioned above comes from our pricing page for
         | the Airy Enterprise Edition and is about an additional (!) and
         | fully optional conversational data store for archiving
         | conversations and to provide for conversational analytics use
         | cases. We currently only offer this additional streaming option
         | for enterprise customers with large amounts of conversational
         | data by leveraging data lakes on economic cloud storage
         | solutions like AWS S3. We strongly recommend to activate
         | server-side encryption for this storage option.
         | 
         | Here's a blog post we wrote about the relevant topic of
         | utilizing data lakes as a long-term solution to store
         | conversational data: https://blog.airy.co/introducing-data-
         | lakes-for-conversation...
         | 
         | If you have further suggestions how to improve privacy features
         | in the interest of all users, we are of course happy to discuss
         | them.
        
       | taktsu wrote:
       | Not sure but if this product can deal with LINE, that would be
       | awesome.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | skandergarroum wrote:
         | In principle Airy supports all conversational channels, and
         | built some premade connectors for the major ones.
         | 
         | In the Facebook ecosystem we currently have connectors and docs
         | for Facebook Messenger and Whatsapp for example.
         | https://airy.co/docs/core/sources/introduction
         | 
         | Line is on our list, and should be up in a short while.
         | 
         | Till we have an official connector ready you can also always
         | use a custom source to connect Line.
        
       | bachmeier wrote:
       | A bit of advice. When someone clicks on "Pricing" there should be
       | information involving dollars (or another currency depending on
       | where you're located).
        
         | judge2020 wrote:
         | For certain products it can make sense to only provide services
         | on an as-needed basis with pricing tailored to how much you
         | think it'll cost to run the service for that customer plus some
         | margin. For this I think it's less like that (seems like a
         | Zapier clone for chat, based on my initial impression).
        
       | 9dev wrote:
       | In my previous job I was the lead engineer of the MessengerPeople
       | Unified Messaging API, so congrats, this looks awesome! :)
       | 
       | I wonder how you solved media files and attachments? I remember
       | having major headaches around transporting, storing and
       | retrieving media files for different messaging backends,
       | especially WhatsApp and Telegram.
       | 
       | Also, any plans to support WhatsApp Business containers directly?
        
         | chrismatic wrote:
         | Hi, Chris from Airy here. Glad that you like it!
         | 
         | Yes this was a very challenging problem. After many iterations
         | we came to the conclusion that in general it's best to have no
         | opinion on the structure of the content that is being sent. So
         | we store every message exactly as we receive it and do platform
         | specific file interactions in a separate stream. We then store
         | the results in a metadata topic and use that to render messages
         | on-demand. This immutable approach makes retrying and storage
         | migrations easy and safe.
         | 
         | Regarding WhatsApp Business containers we are still waiting for
         | them to wrap up their Beta. Currently we support WhatsApp and
         | SMS via our Twilio messaging source
         | (https://airy.co/docs/core/sources/whatsapp-twilio), but we
         | definitely plan on making it a first class citizen.
         | 
         | Hope I could answer your questions! :)
        
       | michaelagustin wrote:
       | With every messaging and conversational product I fear that the
       | pricing is volume based, the more conversations, the more you
       | pay. How does Airy handle pricing?
        
         | shoellinger wrote:
         | Thank you for that question, michaelagustin. You are right:
         | most popular SaaS tools in the conversational space are indeed
         | priced per volume, usually per message or per (active)
         | conversation.
         | 
         | As communication is core to every business, we strongly believe
         | every company should own their conversations and utilize their
         | conversational data in the best possible way, taking the
         | interest and privacy of their customers into consideration.
         | 
         | We believe there is a unique opportunity now in the market to
         | create an open source conversational stack and we would like to
         | contribute to it with something we are good at and have a lot
         | of experience in. Our goal is to create an open standard for
         | the processing and storing of conversational data which is why
         | we went open source.
         | 
         | This situation is perfectly suited from our perspective for an
         | open core pricing model where we will continue to give away our
         | Airy open source core platform for free under an Apache 2.0
         | license and sell additional enterprise licenses for optional
         | features like advanced routing capabilities, team management,
         | advanced storage and analytics solutions on top to enterprises
         | that have additional requirements and more organizational
         | complexity to deal with. Enterprises can run Airy Core + Airy
         | Enterprise in their own private cloud or even on premise for
         | privacy sensitive industries like banking, insurance or
         | healthcare.
         | 
         | For business teams that want the full power of a conversational
         | platform like Airy, but can't or don't want to dedicate
         | engineering resources on their end, we also offer a fully
         | managed Airy Cloud solution on the side. Because each Airy
         | instance is fully independent, we can even offer this service
         | in any region in case the relevant customer has preferences
         | e.g. to store their conversational data exclusively in the EU
         | or in a specific country or data center.
        
       | soorajchandran wrote:
       | Congrats on the launch. We have been using Chatwoot
       | (https://chatwoot.com/) - an open source solution for customer
       | messaging. Great to see all the open source project. How are you
       | differentiating Airy?
        
         | shoellinger wrote:
         | Thank you for the question, soorajchandran. We appreciate to
         | see more open source tools in this space and believe that
         | Chatwoot is a great choice when you are primarily looking for a
         | cost efficient alternative to Intercom, Zendesk or basic
         | contact center software with a UI for customer support agents.
         | 
         | What you get with Airy is enterprise-scale conversational
         | infrastructure that can power millions of conversations
         | simultaneously by ingesting messaging events in Apache Kafka,
         | running in a dedicated Kubernetes cluster to stream and process
         | conversational data for a variety of use cases, such as
         | integrating with Conversational AI platforms or storing all
         | your conversations in a data lake to run conversational
         | analytics or train machine learning models based on actual
         | conversations.
         | 
         | In that sense what we do is more like "Segment" for
         | conversational data.
         | 
         | In our approach, we would rather like to integrate with for
         | example live chat plugins provided by Intercom instead of
         | replacing them at companies that already chose Intercom to
         | serve their customers with a live chat plugin on their website
         | or in their mobile apps. Airy also comes with a fully
         | customizable open source live chat plugin and an Inbox UI for
         | human agents, but it's not at the core of what we do.
         | 
         | We believe there is much more value to be gained from utilizing
         | conversational data and we therefore like to integrate and play
         | well with other solutions in the space as we believe that
         | companies should have the freedom to choose the tech stack that
         | best suits their requirements and budget restrictions.
        
       | melenaos wrote:
       | Hey, congrats on the launch! it seems really nice and helpful. I
       | was thinking of creating something similar for the communication
       | channels of my SAAS applications.
       | 
       | Is this product for small size businesses? Does it need a single
       | cloud vm or it need several servers and services, a ton of
       | configuration and an IT degree to manage it?
        
         | shoellinger wrote:
         | In general, Airy is mostly targeted at mid market companies and
         | enterprises that deal with a lot of conversations, e.g. we
         | helped a European retail company to launch conversational
         | experiences on Google Search and Google Maps for their central
         | customer support team and their 1,800 local stores
         | (https://businessmessages.google/success-stories/tedi/).
         | 
         | Airy gives you an enterprise-grade communication
         | infrastructure, running in a Kubernetes cluster, for example
         | EKS with several virtual machines when you are running on AWS.
         | Our recommended initial setup consists out of two c5.xlarge EC2
         | instances. This should be powerful enough to handle several
         | conversational sources and a few hundred thousand conversations
         | per month. We also have a few rather large SMBs among our
         | customers, but the average SMB rarely gets to such amounts of
         | conversational traffic yet.
         | 
         | Installing Airy is rather easy and can be done with our Airy
         | CLI to set up a remote cloud instance from your local machine
         | with a single command e.g. in AWS ("airy create
         | --provider=aws").
         | 
         | We also have a tutorial detailing the individual steps to get
         | an Airy instance up and running, and also properly secured of
         | course: https://blog.airy.co/tutorial-airy-installation-aws/
        
       | valevk wrote:
       | How do you compare with https://matrix.org/?
        
         | shoellinger wrote:
         | We love Matrix for their big vision to build an open network
         | for secure, decentralized communication.
         | 
         | Airy has a more centralized approach from the perspective of a
         | single organization. We want to give organizations an easy way
         | to access all conversational data across their entire
         | organization in a structured form and help them to utilize it,
         | e.g. to train smarter machine learning models in the interest
         | of their customers.
         | 
         | This is reflected in our mission of structuring the world's
         | conversational data to power the future of customer
         | experiences.
        
       | lazyresearcher wrote:
       | How does Airy compare to Jovo (https://github.com/jovotech/jovo-
       | framework) other than supporting different channels (Jovo seems
       | more focused on voice whilst airy on text?)?
        
         | shoellinger wrote:
         | According to my understanding, Jovo seems to be a rather light-
         | weigh framework based on Javascript/Typescript to build voice
         | experiences e.g. for Alexa, Google Assistant, etc. I have not
         | tried it out yet, but it seems to be a cool project to build
         | these kinds of experiences primarily around voice.
         | 
         | In comparison, Airy is a much more resource-intense backend
         | service running conversational infrastructure that you couldn't
         | run on comparable hardware. Airy is designed to run in the
         | cloud giving you a Kubernetes cluster with all the components
         | to stream conversational data at enterprise-scale. For now, we
         | primarily focus on text-based communication, but could
         | theoretically also support transcription and processing of
         | voice based messages or live videos.
        
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