[HN Gopher] Playdate pre-orders begin in July
___________________________________________________________________
Playdate pre-orders begin in July
Author : cepp
Score : 311 points
Date : 2021-06-08 16:47 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (play.date)
(TXT) w3m dump (play.date)
| bythreads wrote:
| Knowing teenageenginering, that thing is built like a brick, full
| aluminium and will outlast you
| canadianwriter wrote:
| My pocket operators disagree - Love them to death, but I just
| know I'll break them some time soon (and I know I can get a
| case, but the device itself is NOT build that strongly).
| neom wrote:
| My op-z (buttons fell off or stopped working), ob-4 (buttons
| fell off or stopped working), pocket operators (battery doors
| snapped, buttons stopped responding, lcds leaked) all join
| you in the disagreement. As far as I can tell the only thing
| they've made that is robust is the op-1 (yet..., I still love
| TE).
| rockbruno wrote:
| It looks amazing, but... why? I can't see myself spending more
| than 10 bucks on something like this. There are plenty of
| "vintage styled" games on Steam, getting a Raspberry Pi and
| putting it into a nice cover would be probably cheaper.
| criddell wrote:
| Nobody is buying this thing because it's cheap.
|
| First, it's coming from Panic. They have enough fans that they
| can probably sell out the first run just on their reputation.
|
| Secondly, the industrial design looks great or at least novel.
| For $180 you get a neat looking toy and are supporting the
| development of new stuff. $180 feels like a sustainable price.
|
| It is a lot of money, but for many people on HN $180 is an easy
| impulse buy.
| shadowgovt wrote:
| Oh, I thought I recognized that logo! The publishers for
| House House's "Untitled Goose Game."
|
| It's a neat concept for a system, but a bit unfortunate that
| one can't play Untitled Goose Game on it.
| jakelazaroff wrote:
| They published Firewatch, too! In addition to being being
| highly respected (someone else in this thread used the word
| "legendary") Mac software developers.
| AGorilla wrote:
| You could do it in a weekend, right?
| neom wrote:
| I'm a huge teenage engineering fanboy but whatever you do, don't
| break their stuff, once it's broken, it's broken. Curious if the
| same is true for playdate, if it's like the rest of the TE gear,
| If you mess up the crank, expect to buy a whole new unit.
| miguelmurca wrote:
| Playdate seems to me like a masterclass in marketing. The device
| is nothing extraordinary (imo), but it's presented and marketed
| in a way that makes it interesting.
| ta1234567890 wrote:
| > but it's presented and marketed in a way that makes it
| interesting.
|
| And I'm not even sure about that. At least the info on the link
| seems very scarce and the featured video was mostly a bunch of
| people talking and very little gameplay. I guess I'm not the
| target audience as this didn't seem exciting to me at all.
| Couldn't finish watching the video.
| fossuser wrote:
| All Panic stuff is like that - they have great style.
| ArkanExplorer wrote:
| I disagree - the key innovation is that you buy the device, and
| get all the games included for free.
|
| I think that consumers have grown weary of buying individual
| games, and would rather just pay a lump sum or subscription.
| Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
| Yeah, this is going to go the way of the Ouya, but with even
| LESS success.
| felipemesquita wrote:
| I think the hardware is notably whimsical (crank, very nice
| 1-bit display combined with 'fast' processor). I agree that
| there's a lot hanging on marketing/hype, but part of it is just
| how people like Panic overall.
| Philip-J-Fry wrote:
| It's having exclusive games made for it by some pretty famous
| game developers. It has a unique input device. It looks and
| behaves like a modern gameboy. It will openly let you tinker
| and dev with it yourself. It's like a dream gameboy.
| earthboundkid wrote:
| > The device is nothing extraordinary (imo)
|
| This is it: the peak Hacker News comment. A gizmo with a
| handcrank and a black and white screen is nothing out of the
| ordinary in 2021. I bet you could even make it yourself in a
| weekend if you just use a Raspberry Pi and an e-ink screen!
| coldpie wrote:
| No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame.
| yaomtc wrote:
| I'm confused. Playdate has WiFi and Bluetooth, and the
| Nomad didn't have any storage.
| simias wrote:
| It's a reference to
| https://slashdot.org/story/01/10/23/1816257/apple-
| releases-i...
| yaomtc wrote:
| Thanks. I also forgot Creative had a Nomad, I was
| thinking of Sega.
| vr46 wrote:
| How it works and what it does and what it's made of are very
| different things (cite: Zen And The Art Of Motorcycle
| Maintenance) and once the novelty of how it works has worn
| off (yes, kudos, BTW) what is left is a mildly interesting
| device. The SDK and ecosystem are also mildly interesting,
| but the cute factor will wear off quickly and it's probably
| go the way of Neil Young's Pono.
| Ekaros wrote:
| I feel it's pricy novelty product. And even with SDK, I
| wonder will there be new games in couple years? I don't
| think they will actually sell enough to justify development
| time...
| asveikau wrote:
| I didn't read that comment as "a DIY one is just as good".
| More like, it's not high spec, it's pretty minimalist and low
| tech. The execution could still be good and the choice can
| still be unique.
| edd wrote:
| > I bet you could even make it yourself in a weekend
|
| This is it: the peak Hacker News comment.
| mylons wrote:
| hell ya, just another weekend project. nothing to be seen
| here. where's the dropbox post, etc
| simias wrote:
| I don't understand your comment. I feel like you're mocking
| the parent but at the same time you make it sound very
| reasonable. You can indeed make a gizmo with a handcrank with
| a black and white screen in a weekend.
|
| I think here what will make or break it will be if it manages
| to reach a critical amount of early adopter to justify making
| games for the platform, otherwise it's going to end up like
| the Ouya, hipster version.
|
| Personally I think it's cute and I'm vaguely interested by
| it, but at the current price point it seems like a tough
| sale. For literally $20 more you get a Nintendo Switch Lite
| (admittedly without games).
| emsy wrote:
| On the other hand there's this tendency to put down any kind
| of criticism as dumb, implying the person "just doesn't get
| it". No, I get it, I'm just not impressed. It's a low-tech
| handheld with a gimmick. My gut feeling is that the novelty
| factor will wear of pretty quickly. This is completely
| unrelated to the fact that I'm impressed with the apparent
| production quality and marketing.
| tengbretson wrote:
| The styling of this thing is beautiful. That said, is it too much
| to ask that they come up with their own original name for a
| device that is patently a solo experience instead of hijacking a
| term for humans interacting with each other in physical space?
| Ekaros wrote:
| I wonder how well the name will go over with wider audience. My
| first thought was is that some kind of dating service? Why is
| it on HN...
| jonny_eh wrote:
| If you want to comment about how it's too expensive or doesn't
| play 30 year old gameboy games, don't bother? This is a new
| device that delivers new experiences and will likely sell out of
| its first shipment very quickly.
| ncr100 wrote:
| I want to comment that this will be the first toy I've owned in
| a LONG TIME that has a crank.
|
| And, that I expect I will have fun with it.
|
| Fun is where it's at with a Game Console. I like the artistry
| but that's just a gateway ... to the fun!
| nsilvestri wrote:
| Lucas Pope's section of the update video [0] has me incredibly
| excited. He's one of my favorite game developers, and seeing him
| work more with 1-bit 3D games after Obra Dinn has piqued my
| interest. Also, a blog on dithering I came across after playing
| Obra Dinn was one of the more interesting tech blogs I've read
| [1]. Also see Lucas Pope's post on how he did dithering in-game
| [2].
|
| [0] https://youtu.be/DeWGukDrc1U?t=455
|
| [1] https://surma.dev/things/ditherpunk/
|
| [2]
| https://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=40832.msg136374...
| an_opabinia wrote:
| On the one hand, it's amazing, it's ~$220 for games.
|
| On the other hand, is this games?
|
| It's so tough out there. Lucas Pope obviously works really
| hard. Just imagine you're an otherwise successful indie game
| developer, you put out two amazing games, and it still _isn 't_
| viable to make a third, in 2021.
|
| That doesn't happen with movies. You make two budget positive
| or critically acclaimed movies, you get to make a third. You
| don't have to go and make something else.
| zemo wrote:
| > is this games?
|
| yes
| emsy wrote:
| > and it still isn't viable to make a third, in 2021.
|
| I didn't go through all the parent's sources, can you tell me
| where this was stated?
| xyzzy_plugh wrote:
| I don't really understand what you're saying. I'm pretty sure
| Lucas Pope does whatever he wants at this point. After
| Papers, Please, Obra Dinn was clearly a creative pursuit that
| took years, he obsessed over the dithering for eons... This
| isn't someone out there struggling to make a buck.
| jsnell wrote:
| Yes. The Ars Technica interview from a couple of years ago
| is great: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/01/from-
| uncharted-to-obr...
|
| The most relevant quote to this discussion is probably:
|
| > "My wife played [an early Papers, Please prototype] and
| said, 'You can finish this, but afterwards, you gotta get a
| job,'" Pope says with a laugh. "Which is funny, because
| now, whatever I show her, she's like..." Pope gestures as
| if he's throwing his hands in the air and giving up.
| "'Fuckin'... whatever, dude, I'm sure it'll work out.'"
| ChrisArchitect wrote:
| Link should be https://help.play.date/orders/when-can-i-preorder/
| to differentiate from the main site since there's no blog post
| about this 'news'
| antidaily wrote:
| Still mad the crank doesn't charge it.
| arthurcolle wrote:
| That would be interesting. Can someone who took a Physics class
| calculate how much energy you could get by cranking (and maybe
| how many cranks you'd need) to charge this bad boy up?
| mmastrac wrote:
| Lazy googling suggests 30-50Wish [1]. The gameboy uses about
| 1W, so maybe a 1:30 ratio of time cranking to playing? Lazy
| math, feel free to correct.
|
| [1] https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2007/12/wind-up-your-
| la.html
| arthurcolle wrote:
| 1 minute of cranking for 30 minutes of play time seems
| honestly pretty great. Wish I could do that with an iPhone!
|
| I have been in Miami this last week and went to the
| Mayweather v Paul fight and leaving there was absolute
| hell. Phone was at 2%, thousands and thousands of people
| were all trying to get Ubers at once. It was a disaster.
| Took two hours to find someone who was headed to Hollywood
| and then I charged my phone along the way and got another
| Uber back down to my Airbnb. #salty
|
| Could be a cool idea to have a "dual mode bike" that could
| let you pedal to charge your phone. Anything like this
| exist lol?
| Ekaros wrote:
| Dynamo lamps have been around for decades if not longer,
| but they make biking less fun. Output isn't too great
| either at 6V/3W that seems to be typical. Though it can
| be bought for cheap 5EUR to 36EUR...
| asciident wrote:
| Speaking of charging, does anyone know if usb-c charging is
| properly implemented? I've bought a number of new devices with
| usb-c and am disappointed they require the old usb-a to usb-c
| cable to charge. Has anyone tested with a Macbook charger, or a
| "smart" usb-c to usb-c cable?
| jerome-jh wrote:
| As for the battery life, I would have expected this to run for
| days, literally, but they say only 8h active. It can only power
| its real-time clock for 14 days. What did they do wrong? Does it
| scans for networks every 5 minutes?
|
| Besides that, could be a good 5-15 minutes killer while avoiding
| the smartphone vortex
| kart23 wrote:
| This things been a long time coming. I think the first announced
| timeline was shipping in early 2020 at $150, and taking orders in
| 2019. I guess covid messed some of their timeline up, but I'm
| still excited about it.
|
| I'll definitely be getting one, I think a big aspect of what
| makes it different is the programmability aspect. They're trying
| to make developing games for it super accessible, and I think
| it'll be a lot of fun for programmers who don't have the time to
| make full-on traditional games, or don't want to make decisions
| about the framework, language, etc. The constraints are what
| makes it fun. If the SDK is good, it'll be huge.
| christkv wrote:
| I hope they are more successful than the Ouya, best of wishes,
| extremely hard market to get into.
| agloeregrets wrote:
| I think they are starting on the right foot. Ouya seemed to
| sell the idea that it might compare with hardcore consoles
| where it was nothing close. This seems to sell an idea where
| the hardware and games are one and sell itself as something
| silly and whimsical.
| alexbouchard wrote:
| The design and esthetics of this thing are on point. However, I
| agree with other comments that the games don't really speak to
| me, and I've found myself more interested in the pictures of the
| actual devices than any of the games. Regardless I hope this
| succeeds. Electronics need more original industrial design!
| prpl wrote:
| I feel the opposite -this speaks to me more than any other
| device I've seen, but I was obsessed with calculator games in
| high school, spending many hours on ticalc.org and IRC.
| nickflood wrote:
| Me too, this speaks to me so much. The games all look
| wholesome, in line with the device itself. Judging by what
| I've seen, the processing power inside will be quite good and
| would not require optimisations unlike "retro" hardware,
| which would mean lots of third-party games made with relative
| ease.
|
| This would be a good device to spend some time with away from
| social media and work.
| Ekaros wrote:
| I wonder how well this will fare after initial novelty wears off.
| And will it sell nearly enough units for there to be games for it
| in future... I do remember products like OUYA and how well they
| did...
| jccalhoun wrote:
| I think comparisons to the ouya are pretty on the nose. Before
| the ouya came out gaming hipsters were all hyped about it. then
| it came out and it was a flop. I don't think this will be a
| "flop" because they are pricing it so high and this isn't
| panic's main business but I do think it will be quickly
| forgotten about.
| laptop-man wrote:
| OUYA was a good idea until no new games.. lol if I could get
| the play store on jt I'd be using mine to play games
| thih9 wrote:
| They seem very efficient at marketing; the product seems very
| recognisable, polarising and there have been many previous
| discussions [1] here already.
|
| That being said, there's something that I don't like in this kind
| of marketing. To me it looks very unsubstantial and repetitive.
|
| I guess one factor here is the price; for $179 it seems a luxury
| item and perhaps it's easier to believe that its flaws and
| unknowns are quirks or features; and that they're not worth
| mentioning.
|
| [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27440015
| bbarn wrote:
| Oh, cool. Something else I can put in the no longer supported
| pile with my PocketCHIP.
| cableshaft wrote:
| I got one of those. Unfortunately the controls felt bad and the
| novelty of my Pico-8 game on there wore out quickly because of
| the junk feel of the buttons. This I can see being in to for
| longer.
| mkr-hn wrote:
| Now we wait for the softsynth OP-1 emulator on this to complete
| the circle.
| fumar wrote:
| I am always impressed with the design of Teenage Engineering's
| products but they have an air "pure consumerism". I think this is
| that taken to its extreme. A toy that has a crank, retro screen,
| design-driven accessories, and the games are there but not
| promoted.
|
| Compare that to the gameboy which put its games front and center
| with the selling point of being handheld. Admittedly, I would get
| the Playdate to put on my desk and admire as plastic art, but no
| more room.
| an_opabinia wrote:
| > Teenage Engineering's products but they have an air "pure
| consumerism".
|
| I got bad news for you buddy, video games don't have a
| functional purpose any greater than beautiful design. You're
| sort of barking up the wrong tree if you wanna take a dump on
| something. But I think this was said in good faith, and you
| should just consider that Teenage Engineering's Pocket
| Operators have a totally different, literally unpolished
| aesthetic and also sell very well.
| zemo wrote:
| > video games don't have a functional purpose any greater
| than beautiful design
|
| some games do, some games don't. Different games have
| different goals.
| fumar wrote:
| Video games serve as entertainment and for many people an
| escapist solution. Yes, I own a few Pocket Operators and
| owned an OP-1 previously. Playdate is an evolution of TE's
| design aspirations. The OP-1 included video game like
| animation and influences in its music engines. Similar to the
| OP-1, I am concerned that its strict design POV may hinder
| creativity. Some artists prefer limitations. I would've loved
| an editable sequencer on the OP-1. Was a backlight that hard
| to include for the Playdate?
| elliekelly wrote:
| Aside from entertainment video games are increasingly used as
| a sort of virtual socializing. Especially among Gen Z with
| Minecraft and Roblox. Microsoft has been tailoring the Xbox
| experience to be way more social-oriented and I think it will
| pay huge dividends for them.
| philistine wrote:
| I think you're having this reaction because of the rose-tinted
| glasses of nostalgia. [Nintendo's marketing for the Game Boy
| focused on the form and function of the device as much as its
| games](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-ej_8XBwmI). Believe it
| or not at some point the Game Boy's looks were considered
| fashionable!
| zemo wrote:
| > they have an air "pure consumerism"
|
| It's not clear what you're saying here. What is "pure
| consumerism"? Are you suggesting that aesthetics is bad? It's a
| stylish object. People enjoy stylish objects.
|
| > the games are there but not promoted.
|
| that's probably because the developers are still working on the
| games and aren't ready to fully show them off yet.
| caslon wrote:
| At some point, the medium _does_ become important. Every
| computer no matter how small can do everything now, and
| limiting games to a specific platform is for the most part
| arbitrary at this point.
|
| So if you add limitations, or _extra buttons!_ you end up with
| the rare occurrence of something new! A crank is actually a
| really cool addition just in terms of experimenting with
| gameplay.
| 2ndseq wrote:
| This is something well understood in the electronic music
| space. The limitations of the equipment can define entire
| genres of music. The programmer in me is very excited about
| doing some dev work on a limited platform.
| flanbiscuit wrote:
| My initial gut reaction to this product is that I must have it,
| but I know myself well enough that this would also just sit on
| a shelf somewhere looking cool but I would never touch it. The
| games look nice but I'm not a huge fan of it being black and
| white (just my personal taste). Plus I want to know that there
| will be a strong community making games, one that won't fizzle
| out too quick. it's great that Panic is releasing games for
| them but how long will that last? If they released a color
| version that ran Pico-8 there would be no question, I'd pre-
| order it immediately.
|
| That being said, watching the video[1] on the site is making
| this look really enticing.
|
| 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeWGukDrc1U
| mmoskal wrote:
| Not quite PICO-8 but you can try https://arcade.makecode.com/
| (esp. the TypeScript not blocks) - you can run these games on
| in-expensive (~$30) hardware [0]
|
| [0] https://arcade.makecode.com/hardware/
| IggleSniggle wrote:
| PICO-8 compatibility would be a killer feature even _without_
| color support.
| blairbeckwith wrote:
| From a more in-depth article from Ars:
|
| > This "stereo dock" doesn't have a price yet, but it will ship
| with a preinstalled online radio option, dubbed Poolsuite FM,
| that Panic says will include "expertly curated Soundcloud
| playlists that will transport you to a magical, sun-kissed
| musical zone between the past and the present."
|
| This sounds ... suspiciously like Poolside.fm
| scblzn wrote:
| They were forced to rename
|
| https://twitter.com/Poolsuite/status/1398007075435843592
| gregsadetsky wrote:
| I was also surprised to learn that the Poolside FM app is now
| called Poolsuite FM
|
| https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/poolside-fm/id1514817810
|
| Way to get out of a trademark infringement maybe..?
|
| http://poolside.fm/ also redirects to https://poolsuite.net/
| blairbeckwith wrote:
| Ahh, interesting! Missed this news. Makes sense.
| [deleted]
| tesseract wrote:
| It is. Poolside renamed itself to Poolsuite sometime in the
| past few weeks. They said something about a trademark
| infringement claim. (Whether that's real or just part of their
| cultivated image/backstory, I don't know.)
| mig39 wrote:
| I'm really interested in the Pulp web-based development
| environment.
|
| I'm planning on picking up some of these to try with some junior-
| high and high school students in the fall -- if Covid is over by
| then :-)
| arduinomancer wrote:
| I don't get why everyone here is comparing this to gameboy
| emulators.
|
| There's a million ways to emulate gameboy at this point. There
| are emulators that run on pretty much every single platform. You
| can get a $40 handheld on Amazon that can do it.
|
| To me the selling point of this system is that you can play _new_
| games that are in a cool retro 1-bit art style.
|
| That itself is a unique thing
| yoz-y wrote:
| Also it's a handheld for which it will be (if all works as
| advertised) very easy to develop.
|
| One thing that irks me is that the Dev environment is clearly
| at least public beta ready. I'd like to see and try it before
| preordering though.
| ianai wrote:
| Agree - like they should want people developing to it before
| it's released. This effectively gives them a rather odd lock-
| out period from the larger community.
| nickflood wrote:
| They addressed the SDK availability here - https://twitter.
| com/playdate/status/1400849495198289920?s=19
|
| Basically, they don't have resources yet to open it up and
| support it enough for people to have good experience with
| it.
| cableshaft wrote:
| I don't think that's a good enough reason. They could
| make it a 'use at your own risk' type situation and/or
| let people band together in a group and talk out and try
| to work through any issues they have without their
| involvement.
|
| You need to let people start getting ready for this any
| way you can, especially as this is a potentially niche
| product that's not going to have any major developers
| working on it.
|
| Best I can do right now is work on game logic elsewhere
| and try to be ready to do a port when they finally go
| public with it, hopefully before its official release.
| jonny_eh wrote:
| > You need to let people start getting ready
|
| Maybe they don't? They seem to have plenty of games
| coming out in time for launch from great developers.
| jrockway wrote:
| If you want to write a 1 bit retro game at this point, hardware
| is not what's holding you back. There are thousands of hobbyist
| 6502 kits you can buy, not to mention retro computers that
| people keep in like-new condition and put on eBay. (There are
| lots of people still writing new C64 and Apple II games.) Or
| you could use an Arduino and LCD. Or, you can just only use one
| color in a <canvas> tag.
|
| I think what people want is a platform where a captive audience
| has to play your game, because there aren't any good games for
| the platform. If you target modern computers, you're competing
| with games like League of Legends or Overwatch, which have
| large teams behind them. If you target this shitbox, your
| competition is some game where you spin a crank so you aren't
| late to an e-date. Your chance of "winning" is high.
|
| It remains to be seen whether some exclusive game is so good
| that it sells the console. I only buy Nintendo products so I
| can play their exclusive games. I would much prefer to run them
| on my PC, but they demand an extra $500 tax. Good business
| model! Maybe it can be yours too.
| post_break wrote:
| Just makes me think of when Gruber said "The story is about
| Playdate, the most amazing and exciting product announcement, for
| me, since the original iPhone." I can't help but roll my eyes at
| this thing.
|
| https://daringfireball.net/2019/05/playdate
| least wrote:
| I am very much a fan of Apple products and enjoy a lot of the
| commentary from these apple pundits but it does feel a lot like
| this in-club that once you are a part of it anything you do
| will be praised by that group.
|
| I feel strongly that that is the case here. From anyone outside
| of the bubble I feel like ultimately it's a quirky toy for rich
| techies that will probably be used a couple times before the
| novelty wears off and you go back to playing games on almost
| anything else.
| shadowgovt wrote:
| I wish them the best. Games is a cutthroat industry, and game
| _consoles_ are absolutely unforgiving... The number of failure-
| points that can bring down the entire project (hardware
| disruption, lack of developer interest in building for an
| unproven closed system, lack of consumer interest in buying an
| unproven closed system) is high. Massive chicken-egg problems in
| closing the loop on a long-term successful console bet.
| grawprog wrote:
| I've gone through the page a bunch of times now, read through the
| hn comments here and the arstechnica article linked in the top
| comment. But I'm still having a hard time appreciating this as
| art or even something non-gimicky and even slightly scammy.
|
| For $179 + shipping you're buying a small underpowered device
| with a black and white screen, a handcrank analog controller and
| 24 games. For an extra $29 you can buy a snazzy case and coming
| soon a stereo mount that's going to be impractical to use while
| playing so I'm guessing will be for playing music.
|
| The system's closed and going to be reliant on either their SDK
| or soon to be coming editor. From the sounds of it, there will be
| ongoing subscription payments for new games.
|
| They're releasing the system without the SDK or editor. On their
| developer page they have a bunch of vague 'coming soon' promises
| with no actual timelines or anything. They have no actual plans
| for any kind of centralized distribution for games.
|
| Overall, it seems like there's a lot of work or even planning
| that should have been done before starting pre-orders. At this
| point you're purchasing less than half the advertised features
| with no real plans as to when they'll be forthcoming.
|
| Just because a well known name is behind a project doesn't
| necessarily mean it's going to be a good product or a great idea.
| Plenty of great people have made lackluster things. Especially in
| the video game world. A lot of this seems to be more hype because
| of the people behind the project than the project itself.
| frakkingcylons wrote:
| > For $179 + shipping you're buying a small underpowered device
| with a black and white screen
|
| They never positioned it as a competitor to a modern portable
| like the Nintendo Switch so who cares? Do any of those games on
| the home page look like they need a modern chip?
|
| > They have no actual plans for any kind of centralized
| distribution for games.
|
| What are you basing that off of? Because they didn't detail the
| specifics of how the games are going to be distributed?
|
| > Just because a well known name is behind a project doesn't
| necessarily mean it's going to be a good product or a great
| idea.
|
| Indeed, which is why you can wait to buy it until it's out and
| has been reviewed by others.
| grawprog wrote:
| >What are you basing that off of? Because they didn't detail
| the specifics of how the games are going to be distributed?
|
| https://play.date/dev/
|
| >As for a more official way to distribute them, we're still
| exploring different ideas for the best experience of getting
| games out to Playdate owners.
|
| For a product advertised as a hobby device for devs and
| gamers, not having a distribution system planned for user
| made games is not going to help this product thrive.
|
| Things like this tend to be made or broken by the community
| that builds around them. Look at something like the pico-8.
| Not exactly the same product, but the markets for them I
| imagine certainly overlap. The Pico-8 makes distribution of
| community created content a priority, something that's
| definitely been instrumental in its success.
|
| Without a community of devs that can support the Playdate and
| a system they can use to easily distribute content, it's not
| going to last long.
|
| It seems backwards to try and build a community of devs
| around a product after it's released. I seem to recall at
| least one console that died sometime in the 90's for exactly
| this reason.
| Brendinooo wrote:
| >Plenty of great people have made lackluster things
|
| What's something lackluster that Panic has made? They certainly
| have had misses, but it wasn't because of the quality of the
| product or attention to detail. They've got a better track
| record than just about any dev shop.
|
| Here's the original pitch, to give you a sense of what their
| motives were for making it:
|
| https://web.archive.org/web/20190523042100/https://play.date...
| jonny_eh wrote:
| > slightly scammy
|
| This is highly offensive to me. Making hardware is hard,
| everyone here should know that. Here we have a company, with a
| great reputation, taking a big risk to offer us something
| different, and people's first reaction is to assume bad
| intentions?
|
| > Just because a well known name is behind a project doesn't
| necessarily mean it's going to be a good product or a great
| idea
|
| Therefore it's a scam? That is quite some logic there.
| grawprog wrote:
| That seems awfully disingenuous. The rest of my post is why i
| consider it slightly scammy. A lot of buzz with less
| substance than promised and no actual commitments to the devs
| they're also advertising too that will inevitably be the ones
| that support the playdate in the long term.
| yladiz wrote:
| A scam is by definition something with malicious intent,
| something dishonest, and I think that's why the other
| commenter took offense. It might not live up to the hype,
| and maybe it'll be lackluster, who knows - no one has
| played with it yet outside of Panic. But I think it's fair
| and not disingenuous that the other commenter took a lot of
| offense to using that word, because by all accounts it
| doesn't seem to be a scam. I would find a better word that
| doesn't imply malice.
| Impossible wrote:
| It seems like there's a modern definition of scam,
| especially with gamers, which is hyping or marketing a
| game too well and not completely delivering on promises
| (often imagined) due to budget constraints, design or
| technical challenges and often just inflated
| expectations. This happens with products that a perfectly
| fine but aren't what people expect, and products that
| "work" but are buggy or don't deliver all features
| immediately.
|
| See all of Peter Molyneux's games post Bullfrog, No Man's
| Sky at launch, Cyberpunk 2077, Magic Leap. I agree that
| putting Playdate even in that category because the SDK
| won't be ready at launch is kind of ridiculous.
| ncr100 wrote:
| It's not a scam.
|
| > For X you get Y.
|
| Scam would be:
|
| > For X you get WILDCARD.
| bitbo wrote:
| If Playdate uses Sharp Memory Displays, that explains part of
| the price.
|
| These screens are expensive but also very nice.
| whywhywhywhy wrote:
| >For $179 + shipping
|
| How much should it be?
| xsmasher wrote:
| You can buy a handheld that plays all 16-bit games, GBA
| games, mame, etc. for under $50.
| whywhywhywhy wrote:
| What's interesting about that?
|
| Emulating SNES and Genesis games was fun back in 1997 but
| really are we not tired of that by now?
|
| Just how many times can you go through the emulator dance
| of downloading all the games then playing each for less
| than 3 minutes before you give up.
| rOOb85 wrote:
| > Just how many times can you go through the emulator
| dance of downloading all the games then playing each for
| less than 3 minutes before you give up.
|
| What makes this any different?
| jswny wrote:
| I think the design and concept are really cool but it seems like
| actually owning it would get old too fast and be more of a
| novelty.
|
| I could see myself buying this if it could emulate NES or GameBoy
| games though.
| coldpie wrote:
| You're missing the point a bit. The focus for this device is on
| the community: a set of easy to use dev tools, extremely
| limited input and output in order to keep games focused, a
| distribution method, and a community built around that all with
| the same hard- and software, focusing on game dev and each
| week's new release. I'm pretty excited for it. Yeah it'll be a
| novelty that will wear off in a few months or maybe a couple
| years if they're lucky. That's exactly what I'm signing up for.
| salamandersauce wrote:
| Yeah. They do have an SDK coming out soon looks like so I would
| be shocked if someone DIDN'T put a GB emulator on the thing.
|
| There is also lots and lots of cheap emulator devices these
| days with more buttons and color screens like the Retroid
| Pocket 2 and Anbernic RG350 that also cost a fraction of the
| price.
|
| Price is a bit much for me personally.
| germinalphrase wrote:
| The 'subscription' model fit games could create an interest in
| competitive community if there were a local/regional/global
| scoreboard for each new game as they are released.
|
| Important to keep it whimsical though. The competitive gaming
| scene is... intense.
| jmcgough wrote:
| The included games seem really creative and interesting, but
| you're right that it'll be a fun novelty for most people, then
| get less interesting after a few hours or so.
|
| I think the people who will get a lot out of it are people who
| get involved in the homebrew community - I spent hundreds of
| hours on ZZT as a kid, despite the limited ascii graphics. It's
| not trivial to make your own gameboy game then load it onto an
| actual gameboy. It seems like they've put a lot of effort into
| the SDK, game maker, and ease of sideloading new games.
| jonny_eh wrote:
| You want the Analog Pocket: https://www.analogue.co/pocket, but
| its preorders instantly sold out, and its first shipment has
| been delayed until end of year.
|
| Or one of the cheaper Chinese devices like the Retroid Pocket
| or RG531p
| fermentation wrote:
| Wow the Analogue marketing is really working on me haha.
| These devices look really great!
| vlunkr wrote:
| As far as I know, everything they make sells out instantly,
| you'd think they could start doing bigger production runs. I
| realize scarcity can drive up demand, but everything in their
| store being out of stock is little much.
| jonny_eh wrote:
| Ya, it's super frustrating!
| fshee wrote:
| I appreciate the ~decent <noscript/> textContent. Telling exactly
| what purpose(s) JavaScript serves helps make an informed decision
| on whether to open a graphical web browser or continue with w3m.
| (In this case, it was obvious I could read on about Playdate just
| fine.)
|
| I've grown sick of create-react-app default <noscript/>
| textContent.
|
| > Hello! Javascript is required for purchasing, signing up for
| the newsletter, viewing videos, and other content on this page.
| Please enable Javascript.
|
| > Your browser doesn't seem to support video.
| shocks wrote:
| It's really nice when they do this but the no JavaScript ship
| has sailed.
|
| I'd rather devs focus on accessibility for screen readers etc.
| BHSPitMonkey wrote:
| Devs who would spend the 30 seconds adding the descriptive
| noscript text likely also pay attention to things like alt
| tags and semantic markup as well.
| duxup wrote:
| I think the population of folks who care is too small to do
| that.
|
| And honestly a good chunk of that population will still just
| complain anyhow / might not be persuaded. They already kinda
| made their call.
| mkr-hn wrote:
| I think it depends on how much the set of people who browse
| without JavaScript and the set of people who might connect
| you with relevant and important people/opportunities
| intersects. I've heard of people running whole web ad
| campaigns just to reach one person.
| nexuist wrote:
| Frankly the only time I ever see someone using a browser
| without JS is here on HN. Every person I know IRL or on
| other social media uses a regular browser like Chrome,
| Firefox, or sometimes Edge.
|
| I don't think even 1% of the global population knows it's
| possible to browse web pages without a GUI.
| moftz wrote:
| The crank reminds me of one of a handheld electronic fishing game
| I used to have as a kid. I didn't see a fishing game listed but
| that would be pretty fun.
| ryanmcbride wrote:
| They're releasing a free SDK for it, you know what you have to
| do.
| rgovostes wrote:
| There is a game called "Robot Fishing" briefly featured in the
| video.
| ryanmcbride wrote:
| I hope I'm actually able to get one. New game hardware has been
| such an absolute nightmare to get the past few years.
| deergomoo wrote:
| In their video earlier they said they plan to ensure everyone
| who wants one can get one. Later orders might take a while but
| they're not going to stop taking orders like Analogue does.
| WillPostForFood wrote:
| I hope I'm able to afford one. At $179, I don't think supply
| will be a problem.
| yoz-y wrote:
| WDYM? The price is steep, but more overpriced hardware sells
| like hot cakes too.
| y2bd wrote:
| For example, Analogue Pocket, the 200 USD Game Boy hardware
| emulator that sold out in minutes:
| https://www.analogue.co/pocket
| t0mbstone wrote:
| Looks blocky and uncomfortable to hold. Has a black and white
| screen with no backlight. Can't play Nintendo ROMS. Is a
| subscription service...
|
| The marketing is flashy, but I have zero interest in this
| product.
| cableshaft wrote:
| Oh nice, Lua support! Should make porting one of my games (that I
| already mostly ported to Pico-8) to this little guy. Maybe I'll
| finally finish the Pico-8 port while I'm at it.
|
| This is the original Flash version from back in the day. I'm also
| working on a 3D sequel with Twitch support in my limited spare
| time: https://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/183428
|
| I don't know why, but I have a good feeling that this device will
| be fairly successful. Maybe it's just good marketing on their
| part.
|
| I don't really have a good idea of how to make good use of the
| crank, except maybe add something that allows you to go back and
| forward in time (at least undo support). Maybe I'll even alter
| the mechanics to take advantage of it, like that 5D chess game.
| andrewclunn wrote:
| Crank game mechanic ideas:
|
| safe cracking, catapult aiming, fire burner air balloon
| adjustment, etc...
| cableshaft wrote:
| I meant specifically for my tile-laying turn-based board
| game, but those are good general ideas, thanks!
| mortenjorck wrote:
| Not sure why this got downvoted. These are great ideas! Any
| interaction that requires some degree (ahem) of radial
| precision is exactly the kind of mechanic that would shine
| with this novel controller.
| PostThisTooFast wrote:
| Whatever THAT is.
| zemo wrote:
| it looks fun
| dang wrote:
| Previous related threads:
|
| _Playdate October 2020 Update_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24945598 - Oct 2020 (2
| comments)
|
| _Playdate - December 2019 Update_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22016483 - Jan 2020 (20
| comments)
|
| _Playdate - A New Handheld Gaming System_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19986106 - May 2019 (402
| comments)
| 12ian34 wrote:
| Despite having little interest in buying one myself, a suite of
| specially-developed surprise games seems like an interesting idea
| kinda like the Humble Indie Bundles... plus the upcoming web-
| based SDK to make your own!
|
| Also cool to see the fantastic poolside.fm in a screenshot
| although the pen-holder dock feels a little kitsch. It's
| promising, however, that the design partners are Teenage
| Engineering - known for their Pocket Operators and the truly
| amazing OP-1 all in one synth[0] for which I strongly vouch.
|
| [0]: https://teenage.engineering/products/op-1
| mkw2k wrote:
| I've been looking forward to this thing
| aresant wrote:
| Man that is just a beautiful website
|
| Both from the UX, to typography, to aesthetic (on desktop at
| least)
|
| Anybody know who built this?
| mttjj wrote:
| /s ?
|
| This is a product of [Panic](https://panic.com). They know how
| to build a website. And write tools to [build a
| website](https://nova.app/).
| darnfish wrote:
| Almost 100% Panic.
|
| See their other sites: https://nova.app,
| https://panic.com/transmit/
| dmitrygr wrote:
| they says "SDK" and then say "web based". So will I be able to
| run native code on this thing or no?
| zemo wrote:
| their original dev signup applications described the SDK as
| supporting C and Lua. Pulp appears to be targetting the non-
| programmer gamedev scene, like Bitsy and GB Studio do
| currently. It looks a lot like Bitsy. They seem pretty
| separate.
|
| > The SDK will be available on macOS, Windows, and Linux. There
| are two ways to write games: using Lua, for ease of
| development; or using C, for games that need extra performance.
| You can also use both languages in the same project. Typical
| SDK abilities are included: graphics, sound, inputs, text,
| collisions, etc. We continue to add features every day!
|
| ^ that's from https://play.date/dev/
| hoppyhoppy2 wrote:
| Ars Technica has a good article about it, if you want an
| overview: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2021/06/playdate-the-
| console-...
|
| as well as an article from a couple years ago about the device:
| https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/05/why-the-quirky-playda...
| junon wrote:
| I'm more interested in using it for non-gaming-related things
| since it seems like a neat little hardware package to begin with.
| nathanvanfleet wrote:
| The dock really makes me feel like Teenage Engineering has really
| gone a little deep into Panic on this. Playdate already has an
| overpriced accessory before anyone even has a Playdate? It's also
| not sounding like a very interesting one.
| Wheaties466 wrote:
| Who is this built for?
|
| Serious question. Yeah it looks cool but in a joke sense. It
| doesn't really look like it is going to do anything well. The
| accessories look even more like a joke. Obviously im not the
| target customer, but im trying to figure out who is?
| zemo wrote:
| it's for people that want to play games on a little yellow
| brick with a black-and-white screen and a hand crank.
| ngngngng wrote:
| I have two personal use cases
|
| 1) Myself, I grew up on a game boy color and I have a nostalgia
| for playing games where the developers were so bound by compute
| resources on the device they were developing for. It allowed
| smaller teams to be very competitive in game design but also
| enabled a different sort of creativity than what is commonly
| seen today in game design where resources are virtually
| unlimited. I've also been wanting to toy with game development
| for a while now. This seems like a neat and quirky way to jump
| in.
|
| 2) My kid, I think we've gotten far too good at making video
| games addictive for kids. I want my child to have video games
| the way I did, with simple graphics, stories and gameplay that
| come to an end, unlike games like fortnite that you can keep
| playing for eternity. Added benefit if he gets to experience
| trying to play games without a backlight using the streetlights
| to see as you drive down the road.
| Wheaties466 wrote:
| ok I can see that.
|
| Its just if I came across this website and didn't know any
| better. I'd 100% think this is some elaborate April fools
| prank.
|
| look at the game titles. Forest Byrnes Up in smoke Casual
| Birder Executive Golf
|
| It just seems like they're trying to hard not to be "cool"
| and trying not to take themselves seriously.
| agloeregrets wrote:
| Forest Byrnes is from Panic's prior published game,
| Firewatch.
| immy wrote:
| They're in Portland. You just described Portland.
| deergomoo wrote:
| > It just seems like they're trying to hard not to be
| "cool" and trying not to take themselves seriously.
|
| This is worded like a criticism but it's exactly why I
| can't wait to get one of these.
| amelius wrote:
| > Who is this built for?
|
| I don't know, but it seems buying a standard console would get
| you more games and less e-waste.
| elliekelly wrote:
| I'm a bit shocked at the price! It's the same price I
| recently paid for a switch lite. I don't understand how it
| can be so expensive.
| jrockway wrote:
| > I don't understand how it can be so expensive.
|
| CNC milled novelty crank.
| deergomoo wrote:
| Economies of scale. Nintendo has decades of hardware
| expertise, industry weight, and manufactures several orders
| of magnitude more units.
|
| I think the price is pretty fair for a neat, boutique
| thing.
| roydivision wrote:
| Also Nintendo make more money from the games than the
| consoles.
| Ekaros wrote:
| Check what Aliexpress has to offer for 1/10th of the
| price... Even with games, it seems very expensive...
| kyledrake wrote:
| If you want to spend 30 bucks to play 8 billion different
| choices of quarter eaters on a glorified MAME piracy
| emulator that will probably also burn your house down
| from a battery fire, go for it. Don't forget the renters
| insurance.
|
| If looking at raw CPU speed is what makes a console fun
| for you, and creativity doesn't matter at all, this is
| clearly not your platform. Some of us have different
| metrics for what makes game platforms fun that aren't
| just it costs less than a 24 pack of pepsi, 8000 choices
| of softcore pornography mahjong games, and how many
| polygons you can throw on a screen while cooking an egg
| on the graphics card.
|
| The Alibaba consoles are just straight up creativity
| death - their business model is to bottom feed what tiny
| value remains out of old games they didn't make. Their
| long term accomplishment, should society be awful enough
| to let them solely succeed, will be the death of any
| ability to make new games or innovate in any way, leaving
| the entire non-Nintendo industry to just bottom feed
| compete with each other on slightly cheaper consoles in
| an eventual race to the bottom, while Nintendo releases
| the 600th version of Mario Kart, because it's easier and
| safer for them to copy than to innovate.
|
| Playdate has a real chance to inject some creativity,
| competition, and openness to the platform world, and
| there's nothing especially novel about that to anyone
| that has read the history of computing and knows what
| games like Spacewar did. These kinds of "novelties" have
| a way of changing everything in ways nobody can really
| understand at the time.
| agloeregrets wrote:
| The idea is that it is a non-smartphone device intended to
| occupy someone and delight someone in small doses. It also
| intended to drive a community of creativity with it being an
| open dev platform.
|
| It's just meant to be something fun you can pull out and play
| for a little while. Just like Teenage Engineering's Pocket
| Operators were designed to be. I think we might have passed the
| point of realizing how wonderful it is to make something fun
| and whimsical with minimal profit ambitions.
|
| Another bit is that the people who built it are legendary
| software developers who created Audion in the early 2000s (who
| then turned down an acquisition from Apple to become iTunes so
| Apple had to buy their worse competitor), Transmit (FTP), Coda,
| Nova, Prompt, and who published Firewatch and Untitled Goose
| Game. The idea is that it's a gimmick done hardcore and right.
|
| Seems like a huge amount of interest. Personally I love the
| idea of whimsical creative ideas come to life.
| egypturnash wrote:
| It's art. It's for people who appreciate video games as art.
|
| Or maybe it's just a goofy little toy for grownups who remember
| growing up with a Gameboy by their side, and want a whimsical
| grown-up version that they can keep in their pocket. With a
| fidget spinner on the side that also acts as an input for some
| games.
| hobofan wrote:
| Or if you are really really cynic: It's like one of those
| knock-off consoles that your tech-oblivious grandparents
| would get you, that comes preloaded with a bunch of no-name
| games of questionable quality, only with a bright coat of
| color and a cool marketing page!
| philistine wrote:
| Execution is everything. While Panic's initial idea is no
| different than a no-name console, with the reputation and
| pedigree of the people involved, I wouldn't be surprised
| Panic has a commercial and artistic success on its hands.
| vmception wrote:
| You've got to be kidding me
|
| It will be a success for them selling overpriced hardware
| during the presale
|
| and thats it
|
| even the kids obsessed with the 90s because they were too
| young to remember it or too young to be born yet wont
| even use their chance to actually buy a "retro" product
| that is reminiscent of the 80s and 90s
|
| DOA DNR
| elefanten wrote:
| I think this correct. This may be a profitable venture
| but it won't move the needle in the games market. It will
| be a blip, an afterthought.
|
| TO makes fantastic and artsy hardware. But it's a couple
| dozen artsy indie games. The competition is free, AAA
| quality, available on all platforms and what everyone's
| friends are playing.
|
| By industry measures, it will not be a "commercial
| success".
| Tiktaalik wrote:
| enthusiasts of video games that are looking for a unique
| experience.
| pradn wrote:
| People who like retro-style indie games, people looking for
| something new aside from PC/console games, people who want to
| make games for a handheld, people looking for novelty. People
| trying to find joy. It's easy to figure out who this is for.
| zepto wrote:
| If the games are good, then it's for anyone who enjoys good
| computer games.
|
| If they are not, then it's not for anyone.
| lreeves wrote:
| It's for people not really interested in games to buy and then
| proclaim breathlessly on social media that it's just _so
| amazing and lifechanging_ , before it goes permanently to a
| shelf visible in all their Zoom calls to never be played with
| again.
| sharken wrote:
| Was thinking that games similar to Obra Dinn would be awesome
| on this device, but also realize that games of that caliber are
| a rare thing indeed.
|
| In the long run I'd think that the lack of colors is a deal
| breaker, so I think you're right this is very much a niche type
| of product.
| agloeregrets wrote:
| Uh... You'll be happy then. Lucas Pope is at work on a game
| for this called Mars After Midnight.
| taejo wrote:
| I don't think Mars After Midnight is going to be "like"
| Obra Dinn. Pope's said himself he wants to work on
| something much smaller in scope, and given the whimsy of
| what he has so far I don't see it growing into something
| like Obra Dinn.
|
| As somebody who wants no sequel more than Obra Dinn 2, I
| don't think this is it. I always look forward to seeing
| Pope's work, though, and I hope he's working on something
| that he enjoys.
| mortenjorck wrote:
| The (exquisite, I must add) landing page is broken on iOS - the
| webGL model of the hardware eats all the scroll gestures, so I
| couldn't scroll down the page until one of the header links took
| me to the bottom, where I could scroll back up.
| mlindner wrote:
| Humor me, why would this be interesting in any way shape or form?
| I can see this only being interested to people with fetishes for
| old LCD-based semi-disposable toys.
| aaroninsf wrote:
| Subtract the word "only" and you've got it.
|
| I suspect the market is there to enable modest success, for the
| same reason cassette labels flourished.
| shadowgovt wrote:
| It's a big bet. Even in the modern era of low-cost pipelines
| from concept to fabrication, novel console devices are
| incredibly expensive and risky to bootstrap into life.
| flakiness wrote:
| The screenshot of the editor [1] has a small window showing the
| programming language. Wondering which it is. Ruby?
| [1] https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-
| content/uploads/2021/06/Pulp-1-1440x997.png
| humblepie wrote:
| It looks lilke Ruby but it's actually PulpScript, and it looks
| like they made it for this.
| tjakab wrote:
| Most likely Lua. The developer page says the SDK supports Lua
| and C.
| [deleted]
| bydo wrote:
| It's Lua. They support Lua and C.
|
| https://play.date/dev/
| [deleted]
| bullfightonmars wrote:
| From what I have read Tthey are using lua and have an sdk
| library similar to love2d.org
| gscho wrote:
| Looks like a Ruby DSL to me
| drivingmenuts wrote:
| Does this thing have long-term legs or will it wind up sitting on
| shelves in six months? And what about developers - if the current
| plan is to give away the games, what financial incentive is there
| to develop for it, except as a resume piece?
| MivLives wrote:
| 180 dollars (plus shipping) is more than it'd cost for a modified
| gameboy plus a flashcart, and is near the price of an Analogue.
| The Analogue can play any gameboy (and advance) game every made,
| and is also a musical instrument.
|
| If this was around 80$ I would be all over it.
| Operyl wrote:
| I'd kill to finally get me an Analogue product, they're always
| out of stock whenever I try. :(
| dexterdog wrote:
| It is about $80. The subscription that will make it useful is
| the other $100 which is what you'll be paying annually to keep
| using it.
| nkellenicki wrote:
| You're not wrong, but neither of those devices come with any
| games (unless you buy a flashcart, which is piracy).
|
| The Playdate cost includes 20 games by (relatively) well known
| indie game developers.
| mmastrac wrote:
| Piracy is competition.
| cableshaft wrote:
| Not really. I've got like 5 or 6 ways I can play Game Boy
| games now, I don't need another device for it. There's no
| other way I can play these games, so it's a new experience
| for me.
| artembugara wrote:
| So, there'll be a subscription to new games, right? What's the
| price for that?
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