[HN Gopher] Show HN: Zoom / Teams Open Source alternative for on...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Show HN: Zoom / Teams Open Source alternative for online learning
        
       Author : fmeringdal
       Score  : 130 points
       Date   : 2021-06-08 12:31 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | denysvitali wrote:
       | Friendly reminder that if you still can't afford (as in, it's not
       | your call to make) to migrate away from Teams, at least you can
       | ease the pain a little bit, or contribute to ease it:
       | 
       | https://github.com/fossteams/teams-cli
        
         | pryelluw wrote:
         | Wishing the project had an active roadmap.
        
           | denysvitali wrote:
           | Well, I'm randomly working on it, but the roadmap (at least
           | to get to a stable version) is kind of obvious. The core
           | features of Teams must be replicated, so that the original
           | application should be only used for calls.
           | 
           | Do you have any suggestion?
        
       | sodality2 wrote:
       | This is so cool. Sending this to my school district, some of whom
       | decided the best way to teach was to open webcamtests.com and
       | share the screen, instead of just using the camera within MS
       | Teams.
        
         | fmeringdal wrote:
         | Woow, that's really cool. Thanks for sharing the project :)
        
       | ianbooker wrote:
       | Looks good. But does it scale?
       | 
       | And Firefox is not supported?
        
         | mordae wrote:
         | Why is this downvoted?
         | 
         | Anyway, this open source alternative doesn't work with the open
         | source browser and suggests to install two proprietary ones
         | instead.
        
         | pmontra wrote:
         | Yep, I wonder what are the technical reasons not to support
         | Firefox. Some missing codec as (maybe) for the lack of support
         | in FaceTime web?
        
           | kwindla wrote:
           | Firefox WebRTC support isn't missing anything big, but it's
           | missing a lot of little things from the 1.0 spec that Chrome
           | (and, increasingly, Safari) have. But, much worse from a
           | support perspective, recent Firefox releases have been fairly
           | likely to have WebRTC-related breaking changes and
           | regressions.
           | 
           | We all _try_ to support Firefox. But given the relative usage
           | numbers of Firefox, Chrome /Chromium/Electron/Edgium, and
           | Safari, it's sometimes hard to devote resources to testing
           | and workarounds.
        
         | fmeringdal wrote:
         | It is not horizontally scalable right now, but that is not hard
         | to implement either. You can have a look at the dogehouse
         | project: https://github.com/benawad/dogehouse if you want to
         | see how to horizontally scale mediasoup which is the media
         | handler and stateful process within the servers.
         | 
         | I think vertical scaling will be more than enough for most of
         | the users that are going to self-host this.
        
           | lhoff wrote:
           | What would you say is the maximum of users in a single
           | session if everyone has Video sharing activated.
        
         | fmeringdal wrote:
         | > And Firefox is not supported?
         | 
         | Sorry about that! I had actually commented out firefox support
         | in the frontend, but I pushed a new updated now that
         | uncommented it.
         | 
         | Firefox is supported
        
           | blueblob wrote:
           | Maybe the demo server needs to be restarted, because it still
           | does not work.
        
             | fmeringdal wrote:
             | I forgot to update the demo :) Now it works
        
               | mfkp wrote:
               | You should consider allowing Edge browser as well (since
               | it's based on Chromium anyway, I imagine it should work
               | fine).
        
               | fmeringdal wrote:
               | I thought Edge was supported but I havent tested it. This
               | is a list of the browsers that are supported:
               | https://github.com/fmeringdal/nettu-
               | meet/blob/main/frontend/....
               | 
               | Are you running an old version of edge? If not, do you
               | mind filing a issue in the repository?
        
               | mfkp wrote:
               | Ah, that must be the issue. I'm using Edge on Linux (I
               | know, it's weird).
               | 
               | I'll go ahead and file an issue for it now :-)
        
         | marsouin wrote:
         | I was wondering the same thing. How scalable is it? Any
         | recommendations for deployment/production use?
        
       | dvfjsdhgfv wrote:
       | Unfortunately when connecting from Firefox I get the following
       | message: "This browser is not supported, please use the most
       | recent version of Chrome or Safari."
       | 
       | Is there any serious reason for this kind of omission in an open
       | source project?
        
         | fmeringdal wrote:
         | Sorry about that! I had actually commented out firefox support
         | in the frontend, but I pushed a new updated now that
         | uncommented it.
         | 
         | Firefox is supported
        
           | dvfjsdhgfv wrote:
           | That's great news, thank you!
        
       | krastanov wrote:
       | Any plans to support pressure sensitivity in drawings? The
       | difference in the quality of the handwriting is drastic and I
       | avoid teaching with whiteboard tools that do not react to
       | different stylus pressure.
        
         | fmeringdal wrote:
         | That is definitely one of the most important features on the
         | roadmap. It is indeed quite difficult to draw with a mouse.
        
       | jstummbillig wrote:
       | Very cool!
       | 
       | A speech therapist friend of mine recently lamented about the
       | lack of good solutions for online therapy in this space, and this
       | seems to check most of the marks. Two feature additions would
       | make this viable and also very valuable for her use case:
       | 
       | - Ability to save/load different whiteboards (with multiple
       | slides) as templates, to prepare material for the patients to
       | fill out/work with. There might be hundreds of slides needed for
       | one session, so setting it time and again would not be an option.
       | 
       | - Ability to export all (filled out) slides as jpgs or a single
       | file pdf at once
       | 
       | Definitely keeping an eye on this one.
        
         | fmeringdal wrote:
         | Thanks!
         | 
         | I am definitely going to work hard on this project. I would
         | love to hear more about what usecases you think might be
         | missing, dont hesitate to add feature requests as issues in the
         | repository on github when you think of something else.
        
       | clcaev wrote:
       | How does Nettu compare to https://bigbluebutton.org/, which is
       | more directly in the educational space?
       | 
       | I notice Nettu has a built-in graphing calculator, and BBB
       | doesn't.
       | 
       | Will you also be offering a turn-key service? I use BBB though
       | https://meet.coop.
       | 
       | Having more open source options with corresponding hosting
       | services would be great.
        
         | marsouin wrote:
         | Big Blue Button is bloated and poorly maintained, has old
         | documentation and is pretty heavy to host and use.
        
           | svarlamov wrote:
           | This is (very unfortunately) true, and I honestly don't know
           | people get it to work in larger school implementations. The
           | idea behind BigBlueButton is spot on and ultimately I hope
           | another FOSS tool can help to fill this void
        
           | mordae wrote:
           | Unlike Jitsi it also automatically throttles FPS, provides
           | shared note-taking, moderation tools and recording.
        
           | kenniskrag wrote:
           | and saves every session for some weeks on the server by
           | default. Even when not recorded.
           | 
           | https://github.com/bigbluebutton/bigbluebutton/issues/9202
        
       | germinalphrase wrote:
       | Perhaps you can say this already, but please make sure you have
       | some moderation capabilities. As a teacher, there are occasional
       | jokesters/pranksters to take negative advantage of screen
       | sharing, chat, etc.
       | 
       | The Google (new) meeting moderation abilities are a good starting
       | point.
        
         | fmeringdal wrote:
         | There is certainly some features missing before it can be a
         | production ready classroom tool with 25+ students, in
         | particular having different roles and policies for the
         | participants. Luckily that is something that I am going to
         | focus on implementing next.
        
       | svarlamov wrote:
       | This is a really brilliant project, and I love that it's open
       | source! I'm certain that for tutoring, this is a much-needed
       | self-hosting option! When it comes to schools, I'd be curious to
       | know how it works in practice. Having supported a lot of schools
       | in the past year using Coding Rooms with integrated Daily.co for
       | remote learning, I have to say that the biggest challenges have
       | always been related to just getting video to "work" with
       | students. From the instructor's perspective, it's just so
       | challenging to get 30 K-12 students on the same page with audio,
       | video, input devices, and UIs -- not to mention stuff like just
       | getting everyone signed in or using the right link. A system
       | (perhaps hardware-included/based) that could do that would be
       | ground-breaking for remote learning in my opinion. This is also
       | the reason, in addition to school policies in some cases, that
       | instructors feel like they have to stick with what they know in
       | situations like this.
        
         | svarlamov wrote:
         | It's also worth noting that we started by integrating Jitsi,
         | then BigBlueButton, and finally settled with Daily.co because
         | stability, UIs, and support were such huge issues for us with
         | the other solutions. While Daily.co doesn't do everything
         | perfectly, I have to say their coverage of edge cases and
         | support has been a lifesaver scaling our product for schools.
        
           | kwindla wrote:
           | Thanks for the kind words. Our goal is to asymptotically
           | approach doing everything perfectly, and we really value
           | feedback. So please let us know where we can improve and what
           | you'd like us to add. Relatedly, sometimes we have sample
           | code for features that aren't nicely abstracted into APIs, or
           | which we haven't documented yet/well. So don't hesitate to
           | ping us.
        
             | svarlamov wrote:
             | I can certainly vouch for you and your team's commitment to
             | that level of perfection and use of feedback even during
             | what I can only imagine was a truly unprecedented year of
             | usage. The majority of our (relatively few) issues were
             | small UI issues that confused students and instructors, but
             | with the new beta of the pre-built UI I believe those have
             | been addressed! Some of those less well documented patches
             | have also been really useful in tuning performance for
             | certain use cases!
        
           | d0100 wrote:
           | Daily.co looks easier to use than Jitsi, however I can't
           | justify paying based on minutes when there is no "real"
           | resource consumed
        
             | pgo wrote:
             | Yeah there is, the video chat is not P2P, everyone uses the
             | SFU model where all your media goes through daily's server,
             | so they have to pay for the instances and the bandwidth
        
       | kichimi wrote:
       | Also Jitsi is a good alternative.
        
         | fmeringdal wrote:
         | Jitsi is great. But Jitsi doesnt have a shared whiteboard (with
         | graphing calculators etc) yet which I think is Nettu Meet's
         | main strength when doing online learning
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2021-06-08 23:02 UTC)