[HN Gopher] The price of batteries has declined by 97% in the la...
___________________________________________________________________
The price of batteries has declined by 97% in the last three
decades
Author : infodocket
Score : 133 points
Date : 2021-06-07 21:06 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (ourworldindata.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (ourworldindata.org)
| halotrope wrote:
| This is nothing short of remarkable. Now lets hope that inflation
| does not make them 97% more expensive again.
| ceejayoz wrote:
| We've had inflation during the entire three decades this
| decline took place over.
| JohnJamesRambo wrote:
| We've had inflation yes, but what about second inflation?
| [deleted]
| halotrope wrote:
| Check out lumber
| ceejayoz wrote:
| A short term supply shock in one unrelated item seems
| unlikely to change the trend in battery prices.
| bananabreakfast wrote:
| That's not inflation. Inflation doesn't just affect a
| single commodity, it affects all commodities.
| stevejb wrote:
| I just bought a 12v 200ah battery for $2300 AUD. It could be done
| for less, but this was a premium model. Hopefully when I purchase
| a second one in a year or two, it will be a bit cheaper.
| megablast wrote:
| Ive seen them on ebay for $850. Seem premium too. From a
| company that has been around for 12 years.
|
| I wanted to get one for my boat, but they are the wrong size.
| They seem to make them longer, instead of wider, so can't drop
| in replace the 2x100ah I have now.
| quickthrower2 wrote:
| What's the application? Sounds like the capacity of a standard
| $200 (yes AUD) car battery. I guess you want to hold onto that
| energy for a long time?
| CameronNemo wrote:
| Lead acid batteries can emit fumes, so they are not useful in
| the same settings as li-ion batteries.
| zabzonk wrote:
| Aren't most lead-acid batteries sealed? The one in my
| mobility scooter certainly is.
| quickthrowman wrote:
| I've been buying 18650 cells for 6 years and they're always the
| same price _shrug_
| colechristensen wrote:
| Has the capacity gone up?
| cm2187 wrote:
| That's not the price of batteries in general, that's the price of
| Li-Ion batteries. Were Li-Ion batteries mass produced in 1991?
| reportingsjr wrote:
| The first commercial/mass produced lithium ion batteries came
| out in exactly 1991 as a matter of fact! They were used in a
| Sony camera.
| HarryHirsch wrote:
| They were not. In 1998, the second edition of
| Greenwood/Earnshaw's chemistry textbook came out, a magisterial
| survey of inorganic chemistry. They state that the major use
| for lithium is in lithium grease, but "looking to the future,
| Li/FeSx battery systems are emerging as a potentially viable
| energy storage system ... and a ... source of power for
| electric cars". The 1991 edition did not talk about batteries
| at all.
| xkjkls wrote:
| There's a graph there on market size, which shows the market
| size has grown 50,000x since 91.
| colechristensen wrote:
| This is a sort of meaningless metric, you can adjust your
| time frame to make the market size arbitrarily small because
| it was 0 before 1991.
| elihu wrote:
| The other commenter says that they were first introduced as a
| commercial product in 1991.
|
| According to Wikipedia, they were preceded by two years by the
| first commercially-available nickel-metal hydride cells in
| 1989, so that would be an interesting point of comparison. Also
| nickel-cadmium and lead-acid have been around for a very long
| time.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel%E2%80%93metal_hydride_b...
| stormbrew wrote:
| I remember a lot of stuff having NiMH for a long time
| throughout the 90s, seemed like it took LiIon a lot longer to
| catch on.
| sanj wrote:
| This is very close to 10% per year.
| dukeofdoom wrote:
| Thanks to all the lonely women out there. Mass producing good
| vibrations has gotten cheaper.
| squarefoot wrote:
| Although Li-Ion cells are getting cheaper and cheaper every year,
| it still is worth salvaging the good ones from depleted laptop
| battery packs. When a laptop battery pack is gone it's almost
| always the case of one, max two, 18650 elements that failed, not
| the whole pack. I've built some good power banks using empty
| shells (very cheap on Ebay, Aliexpress etc.) and fitting inside
| the good cells salvaged that way. They last just like new ones
| once one discards the bad ones. The only caveat is that cells
| taken from laptop battery packs are not individually protected,
| that is, they don't employ the small pcb containing a protection
| against excessive charge, discharge, temperature, short circuit,
| etc. because the needed circuitry is already contained in the
| laptop battery pack. Power bank shells do indeed contain such
| protection, so no problems, but care must be taken into
| insulating the cells contacts so they cannot short, and before
| fitting them the user must charge each of them to a known
| identical voltage, so that once they're put in parallel
| (remember: no individual protection) the strongest ones won't
| discharge their energy on weaker ones.
| orhmeh09 wrote:
| Does this require special knowledge and experience? I would be
| afraid to try it myself as I suspect that I or my devices would
| be harmed, either in the process or later on.
| squarefoot wrote:
| Yes, it does. It's not rocket science, but one must know what
| he is doing, and as with everything that can become really
| dangerous, it is better to err on the side of safety.
|
| To my knowledge, this is the best informational site around
| regarding various battery technologies (including Lithium),
| and how to use them safely.
|
| https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/
| quickthrower2 wrote:
| Does this come with a "know what you are doing" caveat? I'd be
| scared of creating an electric firelighter in the process.
|
| Also assuming money is no object. Is it as good for the
| environment to recycle the old battery and buy a refurbed one.
| Syonyk wrote:
| > _Does this come with a "know what you are doing" caveat?_
|
| Yes, and I'll suggest that a disturbingly large fraction of
| the people doing this on YouTube don't know what they're
| doing, and are being brutally unsafe with the batteries, even
| if it works.
|
| I've done battery pack rebuilding semi-professionally for a
| few years (I was rebuilding ebike packs for most of North
| America from about 2015 to 2018), and the people screwing
| around with the used/recycled cells scare the hell out of me.
| In no particular order:
|
| * They don't care to invest in a spot welder and they solder
| directly to the terminals. Every datasheet out there for
| 18650s that mentions soldering says the same thing: "DO NOT
| solder directly to our terminals." You spot weld a strip on
| and then solder to that. Soldering to the terminal puts a ton
| of heat into the end of the battery which then flows into the
| cell windings. The separator is usually plastic. You really
| don't want to weaken it. With a spot welder, I can put my
| finger on the terminal immediately after spot welding, and I
| can spread out the welds in time. If I want three welds (six
| spots) on a terminal, I can do one weld on each cell, then
| come back for the rest, and keep the temperature "comfortable
| to a fingertip." I cannot do that soldering.
|
| * They tend to take a single snapshot of cell capacity,
| _maybe_ internal resistance, and then assign cells that way.
| Unless they organize them by wrapper color for aesthetics,
| ignoring the cell capacity and behaviors. Some cell
| chemistries will degrade far faster than others, and you 'd
| ideally like to not have a mess of stuff in the same pack.
|
| * They recharge dead cells with no idea how long they've been
| dead. Lithium cells are physically stressed at full charge
| and fully empty, and a cell that has been empty for a while
| may have very real internal physical damage, such that it
| will fail later. I won't charge anything under 2.5V unless I
| know _exactly_ how and when it got there, and if it 's much
| below 2.0V, I still won't put voltage to it. The risk of a
| lithium battery runaway and fire is too high for my tastes.
| Lithium battery runaways, beyond lighting stuff on fire, tend
| to emit things like HF, which you very definitely don't want
| to breathe. It doesn't hurt a bit while it's killing you,
| because it destroys the nerves first. Health-wise, you're
| actually better off if the battery venting is flaming,
| because the mixture of gases coming off that is somewhat less
| toxic. Again, it depends on the particular chemistry what you
| get. It's never anything friendly.
|
| Unfortunately, "recycling" lithium batteries isn't really
| established yet, and most of what seems to pass for
| "recycling" is the cells getting shipped to China, having new
| ends put on to hide the spot welds, and then getting a shiny
| wrapper and sold with impossible capacities to vapers for
| $0.75 or something silly. The highest capacity 18650s are
| around 3600-3800mAh, and don't source an awful lot of amps in
| the deal. Anything claiming higher (again, in the 18650 form
| factor) is certainly a lie.
|
| You can do it, if you're careful, but by the time you've
| properly characterized the batteries, I'm not convinced it's
| worth the time/effort. Those who claim it is tend to skip a
| lot of checks and be really, really casual with their packs.
| To their credit, they rarely catch fire, but the whole "DIY
| Powerwall" crowd using scavenged and abused cells is not a
| good example to follow.
| strbean wrote:
| I replied with some questions about the safety of this, as I
| had some concerns when reading it.
|
| Aside from the issue I mentioned in reply, the only real
| caveat would be "know the basics of working with electronics
| without shorting things or electrocuting yourself" and "check
| out some youtube videos on rebuilding 18650 packs so you
| don't do it in a horribly wrong way".
| Syonyk wrote:
| > _" check out some youtube videos on rebuilding 18650
| packs so you don't do it in a horribly wrong way"._
|
| Bad idea, because about 90% of what they do is fine, and
| 10% is very, very wrong. Unless you know what you're doing,
| it's almost impossible to tell which is which.
| strbean wrote:
| Fair enough. I haven't seen any of the 10%, but I'm sure
| they're out there. As an alternative to saying "go find
| info", how's this:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KDiecphUk8 ?
|
| I just gave it a quick skip through, but the guy seems to
| know the correct approach.
| Syonyk wrote:
| If someone on YouTube is soldering directly to terminals,
| in any form, they're badly wrong and I wouldn't trust the
| rest of their judgement.
|
| I'm not going to evaluate someone's YouTube video on
| battery repair, sorry. There's no way I can "skip through
| it" and have any sense of what they're doing, and I
| generally try to avoid YouTube as a source of
| information. You'll find far better material on Endless
| Sphere, though there are plenty of dangerous ideas there.
| squarefoot wrote:
| Yes, sorry for not stressing this enough: extra care must be
| taken when dealing with Lithium cells. They pack a lot of
| power in a small space, and can be extremely dangerous if
| mistreated; even physical damage with no heat involved can
| turn them into fireworks, so always treat them the right way.
| Never ever short them or apply excessive charge or discharge,
| use only good quality chargers and never ever let them
| unsupervised during charge. If a cell catches fire
| accidentally, don't attempt to extinguish it with water or
| sand as they are 100% ineffective, keep a specific safety
| container for Lithium cells at hand and if you feel you can
| can fit the cell into it to contain the fire _in a bunch of
| seconds_ hold your breath and do it, otherwise get the f out
| of there because the fumes are extremely toxic and would
| seriously harm you before even getting a burn.
| Syonyk wrote:
| > _... because the fumes are extremely toxic and would
| seriously harm you before even getting a burn._
|
| I mentioned it elsewhere, but
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrofluoric_acid_burn is a
| very relevant read on the nature of "toxic." Most of the
| rest of the stuff isn't much friendlier.
| analog31 wrote:
| Do you know a good source of info on how to test these cells?
| strbean wrote:
| I was under the impression that mixing and matching cells (by
| model or by age/number of charge cycles used) can be sketchy.
| For example, if you have a very heavily used battery in series
| with new battery, everything may look okay externally, but you
| may end up over-discharging the older battery.
|
| What are your thoughts on this? Haven't had any issues? Or do
| you take steps to mitigate it?
| ed25519FUUU wrote:
| Match them based on internal resistance and capacity after
| running some tests. Most people don't even really bother with
| the resistance.
| Syonyk wrote:
| You'd be far better off matching them based on percent of
| original capacity and internal resistance. A 3200mAh cell
| worn to 2600mAh is in far worse shape than a 2800mAh cell
| worn to 2600mAh, though you'd probably also see a big
| difference in internal resistance between them. You might
| also consider checking IR at various states of charge, if
| you're being comprehensive.
|
| ... and at that point, short of massive automation in a
| fireproof area, you're almost certainly going to come out
| ahead buying new cells.
| danhor wrote:
| Since he mostly talked about having them in parallel, this
| might not be an issue for him. I also _think_ a bms can solve
| that issue
| squarefoot wrote:
| Yes, I can confirm. I use them only in parallel, and they
| usually come from the same battery pack. A series
| connection would require extra care to select them for
| identical characteristics, and the use of a BMS to keep
| them balanced, avoiding the strongest ones to discharge at
| reversed polarity through the weakest ones, which would be
| a recipe for disasters. BMS circuits however can't do
| miracles; too different cells shouldn't be used together
| anyway.
| graton wrote:
| I don't think this applies to Duracell or Energizer alkaline
| batteries unfortunately :(
|
| Of course reading the article they are talking about Lithium Ion
| batteries.
| blibble wrote:
| you're paying for the brand, shelf position and other
| advertising
|
| cheap and reputable supermarket brand ones last just long
| fspeech wrote:
| GP meant price for alkaline batteries did not come down.
|
| Another point to consider is if you leave the alkaline
| battery in for too long will the chemical leak and ruin your
| device? The damage to your device from a broken battery could
| easily exceed the cost differential. I don't have solid
| evidence that brand names work better in this regard but I
| have definitely experienced repeatedly generic batteries
| having white corrosive crystaline stuff formed all around
| them.
| lostapathy wrote:
| People should quit buying alkaline batteries anyway. NiMH
| batteries are great for just about every application you'd
| use a throway for, and you only have to recharge them about
| twice to "get your money back."
| adventured wrote:
| No question. Same thing you see in the generic pain relief
| aisle (ibuprofen, acetaminophen, et al), and many common
| grocery items.
|
| 10 pack of AA Rayovac batteries at Walmart: $3.20
|
| Eight pack of AA Duracell: $7.47
|
| Pretty ridiculous. For $7.78 you can get a 24 pack of ACDelco
| AA batteries (granted I don't know how that brand stands up
| on quality).
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| Looking at a couple stores, the difference is around 50 cents
| per AA vs. 70 cents per AA at moderate pack sizes. That's
| good in comparison but it's about the same price it was a
| decade ago. Even comparing to 1990, when "alkaline" wasn't
| yet the default, they were about the same price. "Alkaline:
| These cost about $2 to $3 a pair for C or D flashlight cells,
| and about half that for the AA and smaller AAA penlight
| batteries."
|
| At best you can say they've dropped along with inflation,
| which is a factor of 2.
| jl6 wrote:
| How do you tell the difference between a battery brand that
| is more expensive because the battery has greater capacity
| ("heavy duty", "extra long life", etc.) and a brand that is
| more expensive because of the brand name? Last time I looked
| in the supermarket there were no comparable metrics printed
| on the packaging.
| buescher wrote:
| You can't, and you don't know who is private labeling what,
| either. If you can get a data sheet, the better companies
| have more detailed data sheets.
|
| Personally, I like the Energizer (primary, i.e. disposable)
| lithiums for nice things like my old HP logic dart that
| will sit in a drawer for a long time between uses, and
| Panasonic (formerly Sanyo) Eneloop NiMH batteries for most
| other things, and the cheapo Costco batteries for when I
| really don't care.
|
| The three major US brands of alkaline batteries all have
| warranties for corrosion damage. I don't know of any other
| brands that do. I have seen corrosion in every brand of
| alkaline battery I've ever bought but have never tried to
| collect on any warranty.
|
| "Energizer will repair or replace, at our option, any
| device damaged by leakage from Energizer MAX(r) Alkaline
| batteries either during the life of the battery or within
| two years following the full use of the battery."
| https://www.energizer.com/about-batteries/battery-leakage
|
| "Duracell guarantees its batteries against defects in
| materials and workmanship. Should any device be damaged due
| to a battery defect, we will repair or replace it at our
| option." https://www.duracell.com/en-ca/technology/battery-
| care-use-a...
|
| "In the unlikely event of alkaline battery leakage, any
| battery operated device that is damaged by RAYOVAC(r)
| Alkaline Batteries will be repaired, replaced or refunded,
| at our option, as long as the batteries have not expired or
| been mixed by expiry date and/or battery type."
| http://www.rayovac.com/support/warranties-and-
| guarantees.asp...
| tamaharbor wrote:
| I used to get free batteries (size of my choice, I always chose
| the more expensive rectangular 9v ones) as an official member
| of the Radio Shack Battery of the Month Club.
| stevesimmons wrote:
| Ah what memories. Tandy Radio Shack in Australia operated the
| same "Battery of the Month" club in the mid 1980s.
|
| I always got the 9V too, which I used for my "150 in 1"
| electronics kit.
| oh_sigh wrote:
| I would just buy some Panasonic eneloops(NiMH - not an ad, just
| the battery I have went with after researching this quite a
| bit) whenever you need to buy alkaline batteries. They are
| about twice as expensive but are rechargeable 2000+ times, hold
| their charge for over a year, and don't degrade very much.
| Eventually all of your devices will have eneloops in them and
| you will stop buying batteries altogeher.
| summm wrote:
| NiMH have 1.2v instead of 1.5. That ist sometimes a problem
| for cheaper devices that don't have a good voltage regulator.
| For example Flashlights are notably dimmer.
| aendruk wrote:
| > unfortunately
|
| Sounds good to me. Single-use, landfill bound products
| typically shouldn't be as inexpensive to the consumer as we're
| used to.
| retrac wrote:
| It's not nearly as dramatic. But they've surely gotten cheaper.
| As evidenced by how they have displaced carbon-zinc cells in
| almost all applications.
|
| I checked Radio-Shack's 1981 US catalogue. $2.79 for a 4 pk of
| store-brand AA alkaline cells. That's $8.20 or so today. You
| can today, apparently get an 8 pk of Duracell from Wal-Mart at
| $7.50. Or an 8 pk of store brand from Wal-Mart for $3.20.
| [deleted]
| oblio wrote:
| This is really cool, but could anyone familiar with the domain
| estimate how far we are along the S-curve?
|
| I.e. it took a long time for things to ramp up, then they
| accelerate really quickly and then they slow down again. Think
| Moore's Law, which is dead now.
|
| What would be the price estimate for 2030, for example. I think
| we're now around $100 per kwh (or something like that), what
| should we expect for 2030? $60? $20?
| eloff wrote:
| > Think Moore's Law, which is dead now.
|
| Look again. Moore's law in terms of single threaded performance
| is dead. In literal terms of number of transistors on a wafer,
| it's still increasing exponentially, just slower. And in terms
| of what mattered when people cited Moore's law, the decrease in
| price/performance, it's still exponential, just slower and
| multi core.
|
| It will end, as all exponential trends must end lest they
| consume the universe, but the end is not yet in sight. Recently
| chips have started to go multi chip and three dimensional. So
| even when we finally hit that scaling limit, we haven't quite
| reached the end of exponential progress.
| cogman10 wrote:
| With the current silicon manufacturing processes, I'd say the
| end is in sight. Every node shrink is taking longer and
| longer and getting more and more expensive to fabricate.
|
| We've been reliant on node shrinks to push things further.
| That hard limit is 0.2nm (silicon atom size) we are at ~2nm
| gate features.
|
| It remains to be seen if we can get to that 0.2nm size, I
| honestly don't think we can push much further past the 2nm
| size (I'd imagine 0.5nm will be the limit).
|
| That, to me, is very much being "in sight".
| bin_bash wrote:
| hasn't it always referred to transistor count and not
| performance?
| jeffbee wrote:
| It has always referred to the minimum of the cost-
| complexity curve for integrated circuits. The progress of
| Moore's Actual Law has never stopped.
|
| The thing people mean when they are talking about the
| deceleration of single-threaded CPU performance is actually
| Dennard scaling. Dennard said that density and power
| efficiency were complementary in such a way as to keep
| areal power constant. That was true until it suddenly
| stopped being true. If Dennard scaling had continued you'd
| be using a 20GHz CPU right now.
| sova wrote:
| Oxford Dictionary says: "the principle that the speed and
| capability of computers can be expected to double every two
| years, as a result of increases in the number of
| transistors a microchip can contain."
|
| Which notably mentions performance. I have often
| interpreted Moore's Law to be the fact that doubling
| improvements in performance will continue roughly every
| 16-18 months, but not always directly proportionally to
| transistor count -- other ways to squeeze out doubling
| performance gains arise and often in unexpected places.
| eloff wrote:
| Did you read the whole comment? I edited it, but that part
| was in there from the beginning, just in different words.
| bin_bash wrote:
| I agree with you, I just think you weren't making your
| case strongly enough by implying that Moore's Law
| referred to more than just transistor count.
| klodolph wrote:
| > ...I just think you weren't making your case strongly
| enough...
|
| I get where you are coming from, but this is one of the
| most aggravating types of comments.
| lanstin wrote:
| I am sure there is some sci fi novel where species compete
| for neutron stars because they are a very dense compute
| substrate.
| Hjfrf wrote:
| Asimov's "The Last Question" is close, though the focus is
| on entropy rather than any kind of space wars.
| Isinlor wrote:
| In the Perfect Imperfection by Jacek Dukaj [0] has
| something called "Remy's curve" [1].
|
| On the curve you can find:
|
| - Ultimate Computer is the computer using the best hardware
| as allowed by the physical constants of our universe. See
| also physics of computation.
|
| - Inclusions are in essence 'pocket universes'. They are
| created for specific entities to run hardware in a
| dedicated universe with physical constants different from
| ours, allowing for better performance than those in our
| universe
|
| - Ultimate Inclusion is the inclusion with the best
| possible set of physical constants in the entire multiverse
|
| Seth Lloyd wrote a paper "Ultimate physical limits to
| computation" [2].
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_Imperfection
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_Imperfection#/med
| ia/Fi...
|
| [2] https://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/9908043
| arthurcolle wrote:
| Isn't Three Body Problem kinda like this?
| kevml wrote:
| Not neutron stars specifically, but Accelerando by Charles
| Stross covers this.
| coderintherye wrote:
| NREL has a great report on that, although it is focused on
| utility-scale battery storage:
| https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy20osti/75385.pdf
| ortusdux wrote:
| It looks like $156 in 2019 & $137 in 2020. Estimates are
| $100/kwh by 2023-24 and $58/kwh by 2030.
|
| I do wonder how a dramatic shift towards Li powered cars will
| effect the price. We may see demand outpace supply for a decade
| or more. I hope it is the other way around because cheap
| lithium batteries flooding the market would have many positive
| implications.
|
| https://about.bnef.com/blog/battery-pack-prices-cited-below-...
| cogman10 wrote:
| If musk is to believed, (and I think he's on point with this),
| $50/kWh will likely come within the next 5 years.
|
| So next 9 years? My expectation is beyond Tesla, the rest of
| the industry will have hit on that sub $50/kwh price point.
| That is going to make a lot of things really interesting. $2000
| for a 30kWh home battery backup? Who wouldn't get one?
|
| To further this, with climate change leading to more and more
| extreme weather, I'm expecting that power outages are going to
| be semi-common (assuming the grid doesn't invest in battery
| backup).
| ben_w wrote:
| > $2000 for a 30kWh home battery backup? Who wouldn't get
| one?
|
| Very few of the people that would currently benefit from a
| domestic backup battery could afford $2k, and most of the
| people who do have $2k to spare don't live in places with
| unreliable electricity.
|
| The overlap isn't zero, but... for example, I visited Kenya
| with an ex of mine, we met a local friend of hers, that
| friend would've benefited from a more reliable electricity
| bill, but her monthly rent and utility bills combined was
| equivalent to about $85 and she couldn't afford to move.
| cogman10 wrote:
| > Very few of the people that would currently benefit from
| a domestic backup battery could afford $2k, and most of the
| people who do have $2k to spare don't live in places with
| unreliable electricity.
|
| My expectation is that with climate change, unreliable
| electricity is going to affect a lot more places. The polar
| vortex that knocked out the Texas grid is likely to be a
| more frequent and more extreme event. ACs running more
| frequently will likely lead to more brown outs.
|
| Assuming our grids don't get major updates (I'm pretty
| pessimistic about this), we are looking at more and more
| outages in the future. It's certainly possible that smart
| grids could significantly reduce outages, but that will
| take too many actors working together to ever really fly.
|
| For example, if the grid could coordinate with your heating
| and cooling, you could distribute AC usage to avoid
| tripping the grid.
|
| Barring such a grid, homes having batteries would allow
| owners to skate through brown outs. Further couple that
| with solar and they could survive even major outages (hours
| or even days).
|
| > The overlap isn't zero, but... for example, I visited
| Kenya with an ex of mine, we met a local friend of hers,
| that friend would've benefited from a more reliable
| electricity bill, but her monthly rent and utility bills
| combined was equivalent to about $85 and she couldn't
| afford to move.
|
| A 1kwh battery would probably be a pretty positive impact.
| Add on a 300W solar panel and you'd have something that
| would extend the amount of electricity the have. That'd
| come in at ~$400 (assuming $50/kwh). Not enough to run an
| AC, but enough to keep the lights on and maybe run a
| fridge.
|
| Otherwise... yeah... not much good news for places that
| can't afford such batteries.
| quickthrowman wrote:
| I would rather spend a few thousand more for a natural gas
| generator, it will run indefinitely as long as you have
| natural gas.
| dylan604 wrote:
| And when the natural gas runs out you use what?
| cogman10 wrote:
| https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02/16/natural-gas-power-
| st...
|
| If the whole grid goes down, your gas likely won't be
| there.
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