[HN Gopher] FaceTime is coming to Android and Windows via the web
___________________________________________________________________
FaceTime is coming to Android and Windows via the web
Author : jbredeche
Score : 366 points
Date : 2021-06-07 17:46 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theverge.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theverge.com)
| willis936 wrote:
| Does this not weaken the "E2EE" value proposition of FaceTime? If
| endpoints now go to any old browser then secret recordings are
| suddenly possible. All the downsides of a walled garden with none
| of the benefits.
| jeremycarter wrote:
| Time to brush up on your WebObjects skills everyone! WebObjects
| never die.
| atlgator wrote:
| It would be great if they offered iMessage cross-platform.
| thekyle wrote:
| The new SharePlay feature is actually quite cool. You wouldn't
| think it would be terribly difficult to share a movie or TV show
| on a video call, but actually due to the DRM that everyone uses
| it's almost impossible.
|
| Using the normal screen sharing feature of most video
| conferencing apps simply doesn't work and shows a black screen
| instead of the video. The workaround that people I know have been
| using during the pandemic is the torrent the media and play from
| a local file which works fine, however it would be nice to have
| more legitimate means of doing it.
| kevincox wrote:
| Wow. That is unexpected. I have to say that FaceTime in a browser
| sandbox is one of the few Apple products I would consider using.
| I wonder what made them take this path?
|
| I also wonder if someone could build a Matrix bridge if it is
| available via web, that would be fairly cool.
|
| Some questions:
|
| - Is it phone-number based IDs? Or can I pick a username or get a
| random ID?
|
| - Is spam going to be a problem? Previous Apple had the advantage
| that you had to buy a multi-hundred dollar advice to call
| someone. Will they need to implement new spam measures (or will
| you simply have to add a contact first)?
| DoctorOW wrote:
| This comment likely answers your questions
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27425909
| kwanbix wrote:
| This is a honest question, so, what is so good about FaceTime?
| I have not used an iPhone since version 3GS, so it has been a
| while, but I understand it is just something similar to
| whatsapp video calls, google meet, or even zoom?
| kevincox wrote:
| I am not aware of anything in particular. But my threshold of
| "I will run it in the browser" is fairly low, so if someone
| wanted to do a FaceTime call with me I would join.
| Seanambers wrote:
| I see from the responses that one thing that is omitted is
| the clearly higher audio/video quality. I had someone call me
| on facebook messenger, but had to ask them to call me on
| facetime purely because of quality, and its not the first
| time.
|
| As with all Apple products "it just works". I wonder if that
| may change when it goes to the web.
| TheOtherHobbes wrote:
| We defaulted to Facetime until it became obvious that it
| really couldn't cope with occasional bandwidth glitches.
|
| We switched to WhatsApp and video quality is noticeably
| more reliable. It does a better job when - for example -
| someone is outside and the WiFi isn't 100%.
| cargo8 wrote:
| Duo and WhatsApp have significantly better video quality
| (especially off of Wi-Fi) than FaceTime
| aledalgrande wrote:
| What people said in sibling posts was true before today. Now
| we'll also have spatial audio, music sharing, video sharing,
| controls to filter out noise (or not) in real time and other
| cool features. Although not on the Web I expect.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| In my family, it was the best video calling option back in
| 2010-2012 or so, and there was no competition. So all the
| older people only know how to use Facetime, and no one is
| going to go through the trouble of teaching them anything
| else.
|
| I also have been embarrassed trying to teach Google's
| solutions and then Google messing with them over and over, so
| I won't ever try to introduce a Google service again.
| notsureaboutpg wrote:
| Google Duo (the FaceTime competitor afaik) works fine and I
| have used it with all my family for a while now.
|
| There's also WhatsApp video which is pretty poor quality,
| imo. Duo is much clearer and higher quality.
| throaway46546 wrote:
| My Grandpa has FaceTime and already knows how to use it.
| [deleted]
| Spooky23 wrote:
| Zoom is more like Webex, FaceTime is more like WhatsApp or
| Facebook Messenger with less creepyness.
| drewmol wrote:
| What others have said. From my experience it's relatively
| simple, feature limited and dead simple to use on
| screen/camera containing ios/macos devices. The web version
| won't have the same get the app nag/confusion as
| zoom/whatsapp/meet, at least temporarily....
| salamandersauce wrote:
| It's just easier to use for Apple entrenched people. You can
| automatically see which of your contacts you can call with it
| and you can do it straight from the contacts app. Plus it
| will ring iPhone/Mac/iPad. Otherwise it's not considerably
| different.
| julietteeb wrote:
| Just tried and when going to the site it asks for a name, no
| need for an Apple Id. And on the hosts device it asks to be let
| into the call.
| Someone1234 wrote:
| > Is it phone-number based IDs? Or can I pick a username or get
| a random ID?
|
| You can use FaceTime without a phone number. Just create an
| Apple account, then give your contact your AppleID associated
| email address to add to their contact card for you and you have
| a working FaceTime destination.
| floatingatoll wrote:
| My theory is that FaceTime calls can only be
| initiated/scheduled from an Apple device. That prevents most of
| the spam problem, since you won't be able to initiate a call
| through web.
| xd1936 wrote:
| "FaceTime on Android(browser) is such a brilliant way of
| guaranteeing your Android friends will always have a lesser
| experience without completing excluding them. The video chat
| version of green bubbles."[1]
|
| 1. https://twitter.com/russellholly/status/1401950208133632004
| threatofrain wrote:
| I don't think it's productive to equate the green/blue color
| thing with the accessibility or parity of experience between
| web apps and native apps.
|
| The green/blue distinction is very meaningful. It tells you
| whether your chats are encrypted, which is _not_ a default to
| SMS technology. In fact it would be more honest or accurate for
| Apple to display a padlock to inform you that you 're secure;
| instead we have colors.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| Also, international SMS/MMS incurs additional costs, so blue
| in iMessages lets me know it will not cost me anything,
| whereas green might be depending on the number to which I am
| sending SMS/MMS.
|
| Also, MMS is terrible.
| 542458 wrote:
| Heck, domestic SMS costs money for lots of people!
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| That would be amazing to me in the US, I assumed everyone
| had unlimited SMS/MMS/within the US phone calls. I have
| not shopped for mobile plans in over a decade though.
| avianlyric wrote:
| The colours are definitely there to indicate who doesn't have
| an iDevice.
|
| They predate iMessage being end-to-end encrypted, and
| predates Apples current privacy push. Additionally Apple
| senior leaders have got up on stage and joked about how
| people with green bubbles are second class friends.
|
| All of that together makes me think the bubble colours are
| primarily there to gently nudge people into getting their
| friends and family to buy iPhones. Which is also the reason
| why iMessage doesn't have an Android app, as stated in an
| internal Apple email made public in the Epic games lawsuit.
| jonny_eh wrote:
| This is great, now do iMessage!
| Hamuko wrote:
| But iMessages isn't, ensuring its continued irrelevance in
| countries that are not the United States of America.
| sgt wrote:
| Among iPhone users, iMessage is heavily used as it's simply the
| most pleasant solution out there for messaging. For what it's
| worth, I'm in South Africa and about 95% of my friends have
| iPhones. WhatsApp is very popular here, but for chatting I
| probably check WhatsApp three times a day, and I use iMessage
| almost continuously.
| pier25 wrote:
| It's anecdotal, but in Mexico and Spain I don't know a single
| iPhone user that uses Messages. Everyone uses Whatsapp.
| umeshunni wrote:
| > For what it's worth, I'm in South Africa and about 95% of
| my friends have iPhones.
|
| You seem to be a very strange bubble:
| https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/south-
| afri...
| urbandw311er wrote:
| Just a hunch but if you Google "South Africa rich poor
| divide" it might seem a little less strange.
| strbean wrote:
| If iMessage is supported on Android, that means that Apple
| users can to communicate with ex-Apple users without messages
| getting randomly black-holed. How else is Apple supposed to
| punish those who leave their ecosystem?
| Hamuko wrote:
| > _How else is Apple supposed to punish those who leave their
| ecosystem?_
|
| Memoji support on Android.
| xmprt wrote:
| Apple currently sees this as a competitive advantage but it's
| only a matter of time before these anti-consumer practices
| like locking down iMessage, high app store fees, not
| supporting right to repair, and planned obsolescence come to
| bite them in the back.
|
| Allowing everyone to use Facetime is just the first sign of
| this. Probably because they realized that very few people
| were using Facetime if they couldn't chat with non-Apple
| friends.
| JohnTHaller wrote:
| To clarify, this is FaceTime only (not iMessage) and can only be
| initiated by Apple users, not by Android or Windows users.
|
| I see this as handy when dealing with someone less technical with
| an iOS device that doesn't know how to install other apps
| (parents/grandparents).
| yosito wrote:
| When is Safari coming to Android? This is the main thing
| preventing me from using Safari.
| nwellinghoff wrote:
| Probably a step to compete with Zoom
| vladmk wrote:
| Yay!
| durnygbur wrote:
| Whichever videocall app which isn't from Facebook, Microsoft, or
| Google, I welcome.
| bilal4hmed wrote:
| Its only 1 way which means an Apple user can send a link to a non
| ios user to join in. I as an Android user cant do that.
|
| Cross platform like whatsapp, duo or signal still win here
| skinnymuch wrote:
| From Duo wiki: " In August 2020, it was reported that Google
| was planning to eventually replace Google Duo with Google Meet,
| but would continue to support Duo and "invest in building new
| features" in the long term.[2]"
|
| I don't know exactly what that means. Seems like not much and
| Duo is still a priority. But all the deprecating and switching
| of Google products makes them a non win for me. It's hard for
| me to get friends to try a new service. If it disappoints, the
| next time is that much harder.
| bilal4hmed wrote:
| yeah who knows, that news came around the time Soltero joined
| Google and had all the communications apps under him. So far
| he has done a good job of consolidating Googles messaging
| platforms and Google Workspace.
|
| Duo is huge in India and I use it a lot with family, so I can
| vouch that the call video and audio quality is amazing.
|
| Switching apps ( like the whatsapp to signal ) is always
| painful though.
| dannyw wrote:
| WhatsApp: Owned by a company that makes money invading your
| privacy.
|
| Duo: owned by a company that makes money invading your privacy.
| commoner wrote:
| Signal: developed by a non-profit organization, free and open
| source, end-to-end encrypted in all regions, no encryption
| key hosting arrangements with any government-owned third
| party firm
| dheera wrote:
| Signal: requires disclosing a phone number to everyone you
| use it with
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _Signal: requires disclosing a phone number to everyone
| you use it with_
|
| Signal also got distracted with a cryptocurrency scheme
| [1]. That shot their credibility in many circles.
|
| [1] https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2021/04/wtf-
| signal-ad...
| 411111111111111 wrote:
| Not exactly. They're evaluating adding micro payments to
| the app.
|
| These micro payments will be handled by a third party
| which uses a crypto currency in the exchange.
|
| The feature itself is good imo. Though I'm prolly never
| gonna use it because of the crypto intermediary.
| noja wrote:
| Which means the other person knows it's me, right?
| dheera wrote:
| There are better ways to verify someone is who you think
| they are, e.g. asking them about an inside joke that you
| only told them in person at some point in the past, or
| what art you have up on the wall in your dining room.
|
| Also, you might in some cases want to share knowledge or
| evidence without disclosing your identity, and phone
| numbers miserably fail for that use case.
| dave5104 wrote:
| Might be troublesome if you don't want the other person
| to know it's you, though.
|
| But that's probably not a problem in day to day
| communication with family and friends.
| joecool1029 wrote:
| > no encryption key hosting arrangements with any
| government-owned third party firm
|
| Not really needed when your IME is spying on you. Signal in
| such an arrangement becomes security theater. They
| acknowledge this is a problem on their support site but
| never make any attempt to educate new users to the app:
| https://support.signal.org/hc/en-
| us/articles/360055276112-In... . It is arrogant to dismiss
| concerns about commonly-used IME's when people rely on this
| app for their own protection.
|
| This was discussed previously on HN if anyone's interested
| in reading about the response, or lack thereof to the
| criticism: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25758995
|
| >free and open source
|
| Want to also point out that months go by without server
| code being published: https://www.xda-
| developers.com/signal-updates-public-server-...
|
| Also, when users protested reliance on Google's store,
| analytics, and play services, Moxie chose to attack the
| forks and made us wait for years to get a direct APK
| without the requirements available off their site. I
| acknowledge that there's legitimate reasons why this was
| done, but all we get are excuses and silence for long
| periods of time when these problems crop up. It is not in
| the spirit of opensource/free software development to
| attack your own community.
| [deleted]
| glogla wrote:
| Also developed by guy who is fighting against you being
| able to install it without involvement with a company that
| makes money by invading your privacy, who also has a
| history of working for companies making money invading your
| privacy.
| Forbo wrote:
| Signal offers an APK that does not require the use of
| Google services.
| nso wrote:
| I had to get upper management involved once when trying to
| buy an Airport Express, because they wouldn't allow me to
| make a purchase at the Apple store without leaving my name
| and contact details.
| kstrauser wrote:
| It's ethically OK to lie in these situations. You think I
| gave Radio Shack my real PII whenever I wanted to buy a
| battery?
| dylan604 wrote:
| I've given out 212-555-1234 as my phone number to so many
| random places, that I've accidentally given it out when I
| didn't need to hide my real number.
| olyjohn wrote:
| Also just about everywhere... (xxx) 867-5309 works for
| rewards cards and things like that. Also at Walgreens,
| you can use (420) 420-4204. That was the number the
| cashier gave me there since I told them I didn't have a
| rewards card.
| drewmol wrote:
| Just about everywhere: (local area code)-123-4567. 10
| years ago I was _almost_ always the only entry, if you
| 're ever in the Cleveland feel free to use Aaaron ;-) If
| they don't like 123, use the store phone # prefix
| nso wrote:
| I shouldn't have to lie. They didn't accept my "No.", nor
| that my full legal name was "Donald Fauntleroy Duck",
| until the case got escalated.
| judge2020 wrote:
| There's a privacy carve-out for stores and selling items
| because you effectively have to provide this information
| when paying with card for fraud prevention (both online and
| for in-store loss prevention).
| nso wrote:
| I was paying cash. In my country you do not give any
| details when paying with card, you simply pay and you are
| on your way.
| reaperducer wrote:
| _they wouldn 't allow me to make a purchase at the Apple
| store without leaving my name and contact details_
|
| Was this recent? I was able to buy a new Mac just a few
| weeks ago without giving any information.
| nso wrote:
| It was some years ago, I haven't been back since.
| criley2 wrote:
| FaceTime: Owned by a notoriously secretive and litigous
| company using closed source and unverifiable claims
|
| I'm not saying that Apple is somehow abusing your privacy in
| ways you don't know, but I am saying you don't really know
| one way or the other and largely cannot verify that their
| software is doing what they claim it does
| criley2 wrote:
| FaceTime: Owned by a notoriously secretive and litigous
| company using closed source and unverifiable claims
|
| I'm not saying that Apple is somehow abusing your privacy in
| ways you don't know, but I am saying you don't really know
| one way or the other and largely cannot verify that their
| software is doing what they claim it does
|
| Signal is open source, by the way.
| kevincox wrote:
| To be clear are you saying that a web user has no way to
| initiate a call? They can only join via one-time link to a call
| started by a user on Apple hardware?
| bilal4hmed wrote:
| That is correct
|
| So an Apple user creates a facetime call and sends the invite
| link to Android & Windows user. They then join on to the call
| using their browsers.
|
| Non iOS devices wont be able to make a call. The web
| interface is just a way to join a call.
| igravious wrote:
| So, unidirectional Zoom.
| skinnymuch wrote:
| So Apple user using an iOS or MacBook device, not just an
| Apple user? Presumably on a supported iOS or macOS version
| too which also limits the devices too.
| Twisell wrote:
| I think it's still pretty unclear at this point, because
| "an Apple user" can refer to someone with an AppleID using
| a web-browser on another platform.
|
| Unless of course they made additional statements somewhere
| I'm unaware of (and maybe could you provide some source to
| further explain).
| swiley wrote:
| >forcing someone to create an account that uses their phone
| number and installs an app on their device
|
| If I had any choice I would decline to join a whatsapp or
| signal call.
| ocdtrekkie wrote:
| My guess is if they want to roll out wider competitive support
| for FaceTime, they just need to take their web version, which
| is probably a PWA, and wrap it in Electron for Windows and
| whatever the heck Android does with PWAs to put on the Play
| Store, and add the ability to log in.
|
| This is a good first step though, and given I know people who
| only have Duo to video chat with their non-iOS contacts, this
| is going to be a blow to some competitors when that's no longer
| needed.
| enos_feedler wrote:
| I think the main use case is participating in facetime via
| link rather than adopt facetime as your video solution. They
| would rather you buy into the apple ecosystem
| Someone1234 wrote:
| A lot of Apple's previous attempts at "web apps" have been pretty
| half-arsed. Including Apple Music currently. Let's see if this is
| any different.
|
| I'm currently using Signal on Windows/Android/iOS and apart from
| two annoyances it is fine.
|
| - No gif support on Windows (Android/iOS only)
|
| - Cannot add a second phone but can add a tablet. As soon as it
| detects a SIM card slot (with or without SIM in it) it only
| allows you to set it up as the primary device, rather than a
| secondary like a tablet.
| NaturalPhallacy wrote:
| >- Cannot add a second phone but can add a tablet. As soon as
| it detects a SIM card slot (with or without SIM in it) it only
| allows you to set it up as the primary device, rather than a
| secondary like a tablet.
|
| This is so infuriating. I can have Signal with the same account
| on my phone, my macbook pro, and my windows desktop, but not my
| iPad Pro. It doesn't even have a SIM card in it. Just an empty
| slot.
| Black101 wrote:
| > I'm currently using Signal on Windows/Android/iOS and apart
| from two annoyances it is fine.
|
| A third one would be that they require a phone number?
| madeofpalk wrote:
| > Including Apple Music currently.
|
| Oh god. The Apple Music web app is so incredibly bad. Hands out
| the worst web experience I've ever had. It flat out cannot do
| its function (play music) reliably at all.
|
| It made me switch to Spotify.
| someonehere wrote:
| You want half assed? FaceTime when it was announced by Steve
| Jobs, he himself up on stage said it would be open source. The
| developers in the front rows looked at each other and said,
| "did we say it would be open sourced?"
|
| It's still not open sourced to this day.
| [deleted]
| reaperducer wrote:
| _You want half assed?_
|
| Not Apple's fault. See other replies in this thread that it
| was killed by a patent troll.
| DaiPlusPlus wrote:
| Why would Apple be afraid of patent trolls? If they wanted
| to release it as an open-specification, they could.
| Y-bar wrote:
| You are correct that the idea to make it open source was a
| spur of the moment that took the developers by surprise. But
| the reason why it never happens can be spelled VirnetX
| cargo8 wrote:
| TBF he said it would be an open protocol, not open-source.
| That being said, obviously Apple still never followed
| through...
| [deleted]
| avipars wrote:
| Amazing move by apple
| standardUser wrote:
| I always use WhatsApp or Instagram for non-work video chatting.
| FaceTime is completely irrelevant unless you just happen to have
| your entire social circle using one company's hardware with no
| exceptions.
| CharlesW wrote:
| > _FaceTime is completely irrelevant unless you just happen to
| have your entire social circle using one company 's hardware
| with no exceptions._
|
| No option is universal (not one of my kids' friends uses
| WhatsApp or Instagram, for example), although Zoom is near-
| universal in my family's world. FaceTime is a great option for
| friends/family who use iOS, and I'm glad to see Android and
| Windows support. It wouldn't surprise me to see it join Apple
| Music and Apple TV as an Android-native app.
| lostgame wrote:
| >> It wouldn't surprise me to see it join Apple Music and
| Apple TV as an Android-native app.
|
| I think the difference is those are paid subscription
| services - so the rare Android user who decides they want to
| pay for either of those services can - and the iOS user who
| is already paying with a family plan can share it with their
| kids' or SO's Android phones.
|
| With FaceTime, it's a free service; and supporting it on
| Android would just be a cost sink.
|
| My two cents. :)
| jrochkind1 wrote:
| Right, so, that's why they announced the OP, to try to change
| that, right?
| k-mcgrady wrote:
| ...and this changes that (to an extent) by allowing iOS/Mac
| users to have FaceTime calls with people in different
| ecosystems.
| radicalbyte wrote:
| As is, or will it be made good? The UX of the current version is
| poor on iPad / OSX. That was fine in the past - Skype was the
| only competition and that was horrible - but with Jitsi, Zoom and
| Discord killing it they've fallen miles behind.
| minimaxir wrote:
| iOS 15 will have a lot of new Zoom-similar features. (e.g. Grid
| View and Backgrounds)
| [deleted]
| _rs wrote:
| I hope it would let you choose whether or not the video feeds
| are cropped in or not, but I haven't seen anything to support
| this.
|
| One issue I have with group FaceTime that I noticed during
| the pandemic is that it crops off the sides of the video to
| make it square, so when you're video chatting with a bunch of
| people (like, say, your family all sitting in front of an
| iPad) you can't see everyone in frame even though the camera
| is capturing them. With group FaceTime portrait/landscape
| mode doesn't make any difference to even attempt to address
| this, like it can for 1-1 FaceTime calls.
| radicalbyte wrote:
| What about the really basic stuff:
|
| * Broken contact list (it's worse than Skype!).
|
| * Broken screen orientation.
|
| * Ringing on every Apple device you own under the sun.
|
| With their A-Team now on the case I'm sure that it'll get
| fixed.
| pridkett wrote:
| The screen orientation thing gets me - and it's been that
| way for YEARS.
|
| In short, unlike most every other app which seems to
| actually use the orientation APIs, Facetime fakes it. This
| works fine on your phone, but if you're trying to airplay
| the call up to your TV so you can see people a little
| larger, nope. You're stuck in portrait mode forever. You're
| better off asking the other person to rotate their phone.
| mercutio2 wrote:
| What's broken about the contact list?
|
| What's wrong with ringing all your Apple devices?
| pyr0hu wrote:
| parent wants Apple to build a telekinetic device that can
| read parent's mind to decide which device to ring
|
| (obligatory /s)
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| >* Ringing on every Apple device you own under the sun.
|
| You can control which device(s) ring:
|
| https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/phone-calls-ipad-
| ipod...
| HatchedLake721 wrote:
| I think you're missing the point who FaceTime is made for.
|
| Jitsi - heard of it once ages ago, never used it
|
| Zoom - for business
|
| Discord - gamers/teens?
|
| They can carry on "killing it", but I'm not going to ask my mom
| to install and signup for Discord. I'll FaceTime her or send
| her a link she can 1-click join.
| atatatat wrote:
| Facetime is for users who think videocalls are called
| "Facetime"
| ftio wrote:
| So, tens of millions of people. Seems like a reasonable
| strategy for attracting non-iOS users to the iOS ecosystem
| by enabling their massive user base to exert social
| pressure.
| tolbish wrote:
| Or they could attract those users by making a better
| product?
| sleepybrett wrote:
| Try before you buy.
| fastball wrote:
| Zoom is for everyone at this point, because a huge number of
| people have had to install it for WFH/SFH.
| spaceisballer wrote:
| I love Jitsi, the main part being that I don't need an
| account. It has always worked well for me, we use it for
| "virtual happy hours" and well it's user friendly enough it
| seems to be a big enough hurdle the not so technical saavy
| seem to not get. There is an iOS app, or you just use a
| browser. I guess it's normally the problem of making sure
| people enable their camera and microphone. Any who, FaceTime
| in browser seems like a big win for most people. People
| generally know how to use Apple things.
| ninkendo wrote:
| I think Zoom is more "For everyone" than just for business.
| At least until they decide to start charging for it.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| It is amazing to me that FAMAG companies let Zoom into the
| video call market. A half competent cross platform
| implementation would have left no room for Zoom.
|
| My parents use Zoom now, and my distant non tech literate
| cousin in a developing country used Zoom to broadcast a
| funeral from abroad during COVID to all the extended family
| members around the world.
| zoover2020 wrote:
| Don't forget Amazon Chime! :')
| teawrecks wrote:
| Discord voice chat works in browser without an account. Not
| sure about video, though. Discord has it's bugs, but IMO it's
| categorically better than zoom.
| t-writescode wrote:
| Not for my grandmother. All those chat programs and
| conversion stuff would confuse her.
| alpb wrote:
| I wonder with the screen sharing feature working on desktops as
| well and meeting links that can be created ahead of time (w/
| Calendar support), would it threaten the market for small teams
| using Microsoft Teams, Slack, Discord, Google Meet etc.
| golemiprague wrote:
| Can't they just make an app like whatsapp or instagram or any
| other messaging app does? They talk so much about diversity and
| treating everyone the same but Apple is responsible for one of
| the biggest class division these days. Kids who don't have iphone
| are marginalised because the iphone kids use the internal apple
| products rather than messaging/video that works cross platform.
| It is not a problem where whatapp is the leading app but in the
| US it seems like peole just use whatever in the iphone ecosystem.
| They do it delierately and intentionally to lock more and more
| people into their products while marginalising people who can't
| afford it. This is a vicious policy that stand against everything
| they seem to preach for.
| twobitshifter wrote:
| Steve Jobs notably said FaceTime was built to be an open standard
| when he introduced it on June 7, _2010_.
| quux wrote:
| This may be urban legend but I remember hearing that the first
| time the FaceTime team learned it was going to be an open
| standard was when Steve announced it on stage.
| p_l wrote:
| That announcement came as big surprise to _everyone other than
| Jobs_ , and then died of natural causes more so than because of
| any patent troll.
| rektide wrote:
| And there is still seemingly zero expectation that FaceTime
| will be a standard. It's still a closed proprietary system. One
| that has web access to it now.
|
| Will non-Apple device owners be able to start FaceTime chats?
| TBD perhaps. Will non-Apple account holders be able to connect
| to FaceTime rooms? Maybe. Will they be able to create chats?
| Almost certainly not.
|
| It's unfortunate that the real spirit of creativity &
| innovation that Apple once believed in & knew has come to this.
| This is "progress", but such a narrow, corporately provided &
| limited window of progress, to me. I'm expecting friends will
| start expecting me to have an Apple account now & be willing to
| use their proprietary communications systems, now that the
| barrier is a bit lower, but I'd really rather not.
| justinsaccount wrote:
| Close, he said they were going to make it standard (but then
| never did):
|
| "Now, FaceTime is based on a lot of open standards -- H.264
| video, AAC audio, and a bunch of alphabet soup acronyms -- and
| we're going to take it all the way. We're going to the
| standards bodies starting tomorrow, and we're going to make
| FaceTime an open industry standard."
| chrischen wrote:
| I believe it was something to do with the VirnetX patent
| troll lawsuits that prevented them from fulling that
| standard.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| That Texas Eastern Court single handedly held back progress
| for at least a decade for everyone in the world with their
| insane patent troll rulings.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_District_Court_
| f...
| twobitshifter wrote:
| Thanks for the correction. I've also read that FaceTime had
| to change from p2p to using a central server for call
| coordination after they were sued for patent violations. I
| wonder if that's really what prevented it from being opened
| up. https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/31/21543315/apple-
| ordered-p...
| skunkworker wrote:
| It's suspected that this was thwarted by the VirnetX lawsuit.
| And Apple had to do a "design around" [2].
|
| https://www.cnet.com/news/steve-jobs-promised-to-make-faceti...
|
| [2] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/08/report-after-
| pat...
| butz wrote:
| Let's hope that FaceTime will work on Firefox too.
| luke2m wrote:
| Seems like something to take people's attention off their other
| walled gardens.
| marcodiego wrote:
| If it is coming "via the web" doesn't this means linux support
| too?
| thekyle wrote:
| I would say most likely yes.
| nikolay wrote:
| Apple is trailing behind Google and Samsung - all their "new"
| features are a catching up with the market leaders.
| sleepybrett wrote:
| Hardly, the second screen functionality of samsung's tablets
| only work with windows 10 last I checked. Many of the
| continuity features that apple has been and continues to roll
| out are not present on the android platform at all and in the
| cases where they are (like second screen) they are to use a
| technical term, janky.
| nikolay wrote:
| Sorry, forgot Microsoft and added it.
| suyash wrote:
| Death to FB messenger and WhatsApp ?
| madeofpalk wrote:
| Why?
| NicoJuicy wrote:
| So, people without an iDevice get less functionality?
|
| Sounds like Apple.
| neonological wrote:
| 472 520 214 Westover
| aj7 wrote:
| But not iMessage, so I still can't send a simple text message
| from a decent app from my Win 10 computer.
| whatch wrote:
| Telegram is pretty decent
| nxc18 wrote:
| Seeing as Microsoft had a major lead with Skype, MSN/Live
| messenger, Xbox chat/parties, and Lync/Skype for Business among
| others, and was also in the phone space before Apple, it is
| kind of amazing messaging isn't a far superior experience on
| Windows.
|
| I remember in the windows 8 era they were pushing a unified
| SMS/Skype metro app.
| marinhero wrote:
| Maybe this means Apple will bring iMessage to Android in a year
| or two just to mess with Facebook Messenger.
| gundmc wrote:
| Apple could have brought iMessage to android at any time. They
| explicitly choose not to because of the social pressure to buy
| an iPhone this places on youth. This was pretty explicitly laid
| out in the Epic v Apple case.
| qalmakka wrote:
| That plan only worked in the US though, and it spectacularly
| backfired everywhere else, where iMessage is mostly
| irrelevant.
|
| I know a guy that never set up iMessage on his iPhone - when
| I asked him why he didn't, he just told me he only uses SMS
| for OTP which he reads from the notification, so it never
| occured to him to open the Messages app at all.
| raunak wrote:
| It worked exceptionally well in the US though. You are a
| weird teenager if you have "green texts" - anecdata of
| course.
| zamadatix wrote:
| Doesn't seem like much of a "backfire", it gave Apple big
| strides in the US market and at worst resulted in less
| people using a free service Apple has to pay to operate in
| other markets.
| protomyth wrote:
| Yeah, green means kick whoever isn't using Apple out of the
| group chat. Apple basically promotes bullying of kids who
| don't have an iPhone.
| pier25 wrote:
| I agree. This seems like Apple is finally conceding it needs to
| bring FaceTime and Messages to Android and Windows, but it
| wants to do it slowly so that it looks like they don't care
| much.
|
| BTW outside of the US, Whatsapp is (AFAIK) the most popular
| messenger. At least in the Western world. I don't know about
| China.
| pyr0hu wrote:
| Western EU, yes. Eastern, not sure, Messenger and Viber seems
| more popular around Balkan for example
| mitjak wrote:
| ignorant q: does Messenger still hold much of market share?
| over the last few years almost all of my contacts transitioned
| to WhatsApp, Telegram or Signal. Messenger is just way too
| bloated.
| umeshunni wrote:
| My impression is that teenagers just use Instagram chat these
| days (or Snapchat).
| AbraKdabra wrote:
| Or just use Jitsi Meet which requires no login, is cross
| platform, uses web standards and is open source.
| 2fast4you wrote:
| Let me know when they make an iMessage client for the web
| phs wrote:
| Oh my. This is the last use case for the last apple product in
| the house.
| ericffr wrote:
| So Apple doing a webapp means that they want to avoid the 30% tax
| from Android app store, if/when the need to charge comes up???
| colesantiago wrote:
| It would be great if Apple introduced FaceTime for Plan 9 OS,
| that would be the only time I would use it IMO.
| sgt wrote:
| I heard they have a whole team on it. All ex Plan 9 developers
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