[HN Gopher] FaceTime is coming to Android and Windows via the web
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       FaceTime is coming to Android and Windows via the web
        
       Author : jbredeche
       Score  : 366 points
       Date   : 2021-06-07 17:46 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theverge.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theverge.com)
        
       | willis936 wrote:
       | Does this not weaken the "E2EE" value proposition of FaceTime? If
       | endpoints now go to any old browser then secret recordings are
       | suddenly possible. All the downsides of a walled garden with none
       | of the benefits.
        
       | jeremycarter wrote:
       | Time to brush up on your WebObjects skills everyone! WebObjects
       | never die.
        
       | atlgator wrote:
       | It would be great if they offered iMessage cross-platform.
        
       | thekyle wrote:
       | The new SharePlay feature is actually quite cool. You wouldn't
       | think it would be terribly difficult to share a movie or TV show
       | on a video call, but actually due to the DRM that everyone uses
       | it's almost impossible.
       | 
       | Using the normal screen sharing feature of most video
       | conferencing apps simply doesn't work and shows a black screen
       | instead of the video. The workaround that people I know have been
       | using during the pandemic is the torrent the media and play from
       | a local file which works fine, however it would be nice to have
       | more legitimate means of doing it.
        
       | kevincox wrote:
       | Wow. That is unexpected. I have to say that FaceTime in a browser
       | sandbox is one of the few Apple products I would consider using.
       | I wonder what made them take this path?
       | 
       | I also wonder if someone could build a Matrix bridge if it is
       | available via web, that would be fairly cool.
       | 
       | Some questions:
       | 
       | - Is it phone-number based IDs? Or can I pick a username or get a
       | random ID?
       | 
       | - Is spam going to be a problem? Previous Apple had the advantage
       | that you had to buy a multi-hundred dollar advice to call
       | someone. Will they need to implement new spam measures (or will
       | you simply have to add a contact first)?
        
         | DoctorOW wrote:
         | This comment likely answers your questions
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27425909
        
         | kwanbix wrote:
         | This is a honest question, so, what is so good about FaceTime?
         | I have not used an iPhone since version 3GS, so it has been a
         | while, but I understand it is just something similar to
         | whatsapp video calls, google meet, or even zoom?
        
           | kevincox wrote:
           | I am not aware of anything in particular. But my threshold of
           | "I will run it in the browser" is fairly low, so if someone
           | wanted to do a FaceTime call with me I would join.
        
           | Seanambers wrote:
           | I see from the responses that one thing that is omitted is
           | the clearly higher audio/video quality. I had someone call me
           | on facebook messenger, but had to ask them to call me on
           | facetime purely because of quality, and its not the first
           | time.
           | 
           | As with all Apple products "it just works". I wonder if that
           | may change when it goes to the web.
        
             | TheOtherHobbes wrote:
             | We defaulted to Facetime until it became obvious that it
             | really couldn't cope with occasional bandwidth glitches.
             | 
             | We switched to WhatsApp and video quality is noticeably
             | more reliable. It does a better job when - for example -
             | someone is outside and the WiFi isn't 100%.
        
             | cargo8 wrote:
             | Duo and WhatsApp have significantly better video quality
             | (especially off of Wi-Fi) than FaceTime
        
           | aledalgrande wrote:
           | What people said in sibling posts was true before today. Now
           | we'll also have spatial audio, music sharing, video sharing,
           | controls to filter out noise (or not) in real time and other
           | cool features. Although not on the Web I expect.
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | In my family, it was the best video calling option back in
           | 2010-2012 or so, and there was no competition. So all the
           | older people only know how to use Facetime, and no one is
           | going to go through the trouble of teaching them anything
           | else.
           | 
           | I also have been embarrassed trying to teach Google's
           | solutions and then Google messing with them over and over, so
           | I won't ever try to introduce a Google service again.
        
             | notsureaboutpg wrote:
             | Google Duo (the FaceTime competitor afaik) works fine and I
             | have used it with all my family for a while now.
             | 
             | There's also WhatsApp video which is pretty poor quality,
             | imo. Duo is much clearer and higher quality.
        
           | throaway46546 wrote:
           | My Grandpa has FaceTime and already knows how to use it.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | Spooky23 wrote:
           | Zoom is more like Webex, FaceTime is more like WhatsApp or
           | Facebook Messenger with less creepyness.
        
           | drewmol wrote:
           | What others have said. From my experience it's relatively
           | simple, feature limited and dead simple to use on
           | screen/camera containing ios/macos devices. The web version
           | won't have the same get the app nag/confusion as
           | zoom/whatsapp/meet, at least temporarily....
        
           | salamandersauce wrote:
           | It's just easier to use for Apple entrenched people. You can
           | automatically see which of your contacts you can call with it
           | and you can do it straight from the contacts app. Plus it
           | will ring iPhone/Mac/iPad. Otherwise it's not considerably
           | different.
        
         | julietteeb wrote:
         | Just tried and when going to the site it asks for a name, no
         | need for an Apple Id. And on the hosts device it asks to be let
         | into the call.
        
         | Someone1234 wrote:
         | > Is it phone-number based IDs? Or can I pick a username or get
         | a random ID?
         | 
         | You can use FaceTime without a phone number. Just create an
         | Apple account, then give your contact your AppleID associated
         | email address to add to their contact card for you and you have
         | a working FaceTime destination.
        
         | floatingatoll wrote:
         | My theory is that FaceTime calls can only be
         | initiated/scheduled from an Apple device. That prevents most of
         | the spam problem, since you won't be able to initiate a call
         | through web.
        
       | xd1936 wrote:
       | "FaceTime on Android(browser) is such a brilliant way of
       | guaranteeing your Android friends will always have a lesser
       | experience without completing excluding them. The video chat
       | version of green bubbles."[1]
       | 
       | 1. https://twitter.com/russellholly/status/1401950208133632004
        
         | threatofrain wrote:
         | I don't think it's productive to equate the green/blue color
         | thing with the accessibility or parity of experience between
         | web apps and native apps.
         | 
         | The green/blue distinction is very meaningful. It tells you
         | whether your chats are encrypted, which is _not_ a default to
         | SMS technology. In fact it would be more honest or accurate for
         | Apple to display a padlock to inform you that you 're secure;
         | instead we have colors.
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | Also, international SMS/MMS incurs additional costs, so blue
           | in iMessages lets me know it will not cost me anything,
           | whereas green might be depending on the number to which I am
           | sending SMS/MMS.
           | 
           | Also, MMS is terrible.
        
             | 542458 wrote:
             | Heck, domestic SMS costs money for lots of people!
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | That would be amazing to me in the US, I assumed everyone
               | had unlimited SMS/MMS/within the US phone calls. I have
               | not shopped for mobile plans in over a decade though.
        
           | avianlyric wrote:
           | The colours are definitely there to indicate who doesn't have
           | an iDevice.
           | 
           | They predate iMessage being end-to-end encrypted, and
           | predates Apples current privacy push. Additionally Apple
           | senior leaders have got up on stage and joked about how
           | people with green bubbles are second class friends.
           | 
           | All of that together makes me think the bubble colours are
           | primarily there to gently nudge people into getting their
           | friends and family to buy iPhones. Which is also the reason
           | why iMessage doesn't have an Android app, as stated in an
           | internal Apple email made public in the Epic games lawsuit.
        
       | jonny_eh wrote:
       | This is great, now do iMessage!
        
       | Hamuko wrote:
       | But iMessages isn't, ensuring its continued irrelevance in
       | countries that are not the United States of America.
        
         | sgt wrote:
         | Among iPhone users, iMessage is heavily used as it's simply the
         | most pleasant solution out there for messaging. For what it's
         | worth, I'm in South Africa and about 95% of my friends have
         | iPhones. WhatsApp is very popular here, but for chatting I
         | probably check WhatsApp three times a day, and I use iMessage
         | almost continuously.
        
           | pier25 wrote:
           | It's anecdotal, but in Mexico and Spain I don't know a single
           | iPhone user that uses Messages. Everyone uses Whatsapp.
        
           | umeshunni wrote:
           | > For what it's worth, I'm in South Africa and about 95% of
           | my friends have iPhones.
           | 
           | You seem to be a very strange bubble:
           | https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/south-
           | afri...
        
             | urbandw311er wrote:
             | Just a hunch but if you Google "South Africa rich poor
             | divide" it might seem a little less strange.
        
         | strbean wrote:
         | If iMessage is supported on Android, that means that Apple
         | users can to communicate with ex-Apple users without messages
         | getting randomly black-holed. How else is Apple supposed to
         | punish those who leave their ecosystem?
        
           | Hamuko wrote:
           | > _How else is Apple supposed to punish those who leave their
           | ecosystem?_
           | 
           | Memoji support on Android.
        
           | xmprt wrote:
           | Apple currently sees this as a competitive advantage but it's
           | only a matter of time before these anti-consumer practices
           | like locking down iMessage, high app store fees, not
           | supporting right to repair, and planned obsolescence come to
           | bite them in the back.
           | 
           | Allowing everyone to use Facetime is just the first sign of
           | this. Probably because they realized that very few people
           | were using Facetime if they couldn't chat with non-Apple
           | friends.
        
       | JohnTHaller wrote:
       | To clarify, this is FaceTime only (not iMessage) and can only be
       | initiated by Apple users, not by Android or Windows users.
       | 
       | I see this as handy when dealing with someone less technical with
       | an iOS device that doesn't know how to install other apps
       | (parents/grandparents).
        
       | yosito wrote:
       | When is Safari coming to Android? This is the main thing
       | preventing me from using Safari.
        
       | nwellinghoff wrote:
       | Probably a step to compete with Zoom
        
       | vladmk wrote:
       | Yay!
        
       | durnygbur wrote:
       | Whichever videocall app which isn't from Facebook, Microsoft, or
       | Google, I welcome.
        
       | bilal4hmed wrote:
       | Its only 1 way which means an Apple user can send a link to a non
       | ios user to join in. I as an Android user cant do that.
       | 
       | Cross platform like whatsapp, duo or signal still win here
        
         | skinnymuch wrote:
         | From Duo wiki: " In August 2020, it was reported that Google
         | was planning to eventually replace Google Duo with Google Meet,
         | but would continue to support Duo and "invest in building new
         | features" in the long term.[2]"
         | 
         | I don't know exactly what that means. Seems like not much and
         | Duo is still a priority. But all the deprecating and switching
         | of Google products makes them a non win for me. It's hard for
         | me to get friends to try a new service. If it disappoints, the
         | next time is that much harder.
        
           | bilal4hmed wrote:
           | yeah who knows, that news came around the time Soltero joined
           | Google and had all the communications apps under him. So far
           | he has done a good job of consolidating Googles messaging
           | platforms and Google Workspace.
           | 
           | Duo is huge in India and I use it a lot with family, so I can
           | vouch that the call video and audio quality is amazing.
           | 
           | Switching apps ( like the whatsapp to signal ) is always
           | painful though.
        
         | dannyw wrote:
         | WhatsApp: Owned by a company that makes money invading your
         | privacy.
         | 
         | Duo: owned by a company that makes money invading your privacy.
        
           | commoner wrote:
           | Signal: developed by a non-profit organization, free and open
           | source, end-to-end encrypted in all regions, no encryption
           | key hosting arrangements with any government-owned third
           | party firm
        
             | dheera wrote:
             | Signal: requires disclosing a phone number to everyone you
             | use it with
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _Signal: requires disclosing a phone number to everyone
               | you use it with_
               | 
               | Signal also got distracted with a cryptocurrency scheme
               | [1]. That shot their credibility in many circles.
               | 
               | [1] https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2021/04/wtf-
               | signal-ad...
        
               | 411111111111111 wrote:
               | Not exactly. They're evaluating adding micro payments to
               | the app.
               | 
               | These micro payments will be handled by a third party
               | which uses a crypto currency in the exchange.
               | 
               | The feature itself is good imo. Though I'm prolly never
               | gonna use it because of the crypto intermediary.
        
               | noja wrote:
               | Which means the other person knows it's me, right?
        
               | dheera wrote:
               | There are better ways to verify someone is who you think
               | they are, e.g. asking them about an inside joke that you
               | only told them in person at some point in the past, or
               | what art you have up on the wall in your dining room.
               | 
               | Also, you might in some cases want to share knowledge or
               | evidence without disclosing your identity, and phone
               | numbers miserably fail for that use case.
        
               | dave5104 wrote:
               | Might be troublesome if you don't want the other person
               | to know it's you, though.
               | 
               | But that's probably not a problem in day to day
               | communication with family and friends.
        
             | joecool1029 wrote:
             | > no encryption key hosting arrangements with any
             | government-owned third party firm
             | 
             | Not really needed when your IME is spying on you. Signal in
             | such an arrangement becomes security theater. They
             | acknowledge this is a problem on their support site but
             | never make any attempt to educate new users to the app:
             | https://support.signal.org/hc/en-
             | us/articles/360055276112-In... . It is arrogant to dismiss
             | concerns about commonly-used IME's when people rely on this
             | app for their own protection.
             | 
             | This was discussed previously on HN if anyone's interested
             | in reading about the response, or lack thereof to the
             | criticism: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25758995
             | 
             | >free and open source
             | 
             | Want to also point out that months go by without server
             | code being published: https://www.xda-
             | developers.com/signal-updates-public-server-...
             | 
             | Also, when users protested reliance on Google's store,
             | analytics, and play services, Moxie chose to attack the
             | forks and made us wait for years to get a direct APK
             | without the requirements available off their site. I
             | acknowledge that there's legitimate reasons why this was
             | done, but all we get are excuses and silence for long
             | periods of time when these problems crop up. It is not in
             | the spirit of opensource/free software development to
             | attack your own community.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | glogla wrote:
             | Also developed by guy who is fighting against you being
             | able to install it without involvement with a company that
             | makes money by invading your privacy, who also has a
             | history of working for companies making money invading your
             | privacy.
        
               | Forbo wrote:
               | Signal offers an APK that does not require the use of
               | Google services.
        
           | nso wrote:
           | I had to get upper management involved once when trying to
           | buy an Airport Express, because they wouldn't allow me to
           | make a purchase at the Apple store without leaving my name
           | and contact details.
        
             | kstrauser wrote:
             | It's ethically OK to lie in these situations. You think I
             | gave Radio Shack my real PII whenever I wanted to buy a
             | battery?
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | I've given out 212-555-1234 as my phone number to so many
               | random places, that I've accidentally given it out when I
               | didn't need to hide my real number.
        
               | olyjohn wrote:
               | Also just about everywhere... (xxx) 867-5309 works for
               | rewards cards and things like that. Also at Walgreens,
               | you can use (420) 420-4204. That was the number the
               | cashier gave me there since I told them I didn't have a
               | rewards card.
        
               | drewmol wrote:
               | Just about everywhere: (local area code)-123-4567. 10
               | years ago I was _almost_ always the only entry, if you
               | 're ever in the Cleveland feel free to use Aaaron ;-) If
               | they don't like 123, use the store phone # prefix
        
               | nso wrote:
               | I shouldn't have to lie. They didn't accept my "No.", nor
               | that my full legal name was "Donald Fauntleroy Duck",
               | until the case got escalated.
        
             | judge2020 wrote:
             | There's a privacy carve-out for stores and selling items
             | because you effectively have to provide this information
             | when paying with card for fraud prevention (both online and
             | for in-store loss prevention).
        
               | nso wrote:
               | I was paying cash. In my country you do not give any
               | details when paying with card, you simply pay and you are
               | on your way.
        
             | reaperducer wrote:
             | _they wouldn 't allow me to make a purchase at the Apple
             | store without leaving my name and contact details_
             | 
             | Was this recent? I was able to buy a new Mac just a few
             | weeks ago without giving any information.
        
               | nso wrote:
               | It was some years ago, I haven't been back since.
        
           | criley2 wrote:
           | FaceTime: Owned by a notoriously secretive and litigous
           | company using closed source and unverifiable claims
           | 
           | I'm not saying that Apple is somehow abusing your privacy in
           | ways you don't know, but I am saying you don't really know
           | one way or the other and largely cannot verify that their
           | software is doing what they claim it does
        
           | criley2 wrote:
           | FaceTime: Owned by a notoriously secretive and litigous
           | company using closed source and unverifiable claims
           | 
           | I'm not saying that Apple is somehow abusing your privacy in
           | ways you don't know, but I am saying you don't really know
           | one way or the other and largely cannot verify that their
           | software is doing what they claim it does
           | 
           | Signal is open source, by the way.
        
         | kevincox wrote:
         | To be clear are you saying that a web user has no way to
         | initiate a call? They can only join via one-time link to a call
         | started by a user on Apple hardware?
        
           | bilal4hmed wrote:
           | That is correct
           | 
           | So an Apple user creates a facetime call and sends the invite
           | link to Android & Windows user. They then join on to the call
           | using their browsers.
           | 
           | Non iOS devices wont be able to make a call. The web
           | interface is just a way to join a call.
        
             | igravious wrote:
             | So, unidirectional Zoom.
        
             | skinnymuch wrote:
             | So Apple user using an iOS or MacBook device, not just an
             | Apple user? Presumably on a supported iOS or macOS version
             | too which also limits the devices too.
        
             | Twisell wrote:
             | I think it's still pretty unclear at this point, because
             | "an Apple user" can refer to someone with an AppleID using
             | a web-browser on another platform.
             | 
             | Unless of course they made additional statements somewhere
             | I'm unaware of (and maybe could you provide some source to
             | further explain).
        
         | swiley wrote:
         | >forcing someone to create an account that uses their phone
         | number and installs an app on their device
         | 
         | If I had any choice I would decline to join a whatsapp or
         | signal call.
        
         | ocdtrekkie wrote:
         | My guess is if they want to roll out wider competitive support
         | for FaceTime, they just need to take their web version, which
         | is probably a PWA, and wrap it in Electron for Windows and
         | whatever the heck Android does with PWAs to put on the Play
         | Store, and add the ability to log in.
         | 
         | This is a good first step though, and given I know people who
         | only have Duo to video chat with their non-iOS contacts, this
         | is going to be a blow to some competitors when that's no longer
         | needed.
        
           | enos_feedler wrote:
           | I think the main use case is participating in facetime via
           | link rather than adopt facetime as your video solution. They
           | would rather you buy into the apple ecosystem
        
       | Someone1234 wrote:
       | A lot of Apple's previous attempts at "web apps" have been pretty
       | half-arsed. Including Apple Music currently. Let's see if this is
       | any different.
       | 
       | I'm currently using Signal on Windows/Android/iOS and apart from
       | two annoyances it is fine.
       | 
       | - No gif support on Windows (Android/iOS only)
       | 
       | - Cannot add a second phone but can add a tablet. As soon as it
       | detects a SIM card slot (with or without SIM in it) it only
       | allows you to set it up as the primary device, rather than a
       | secondary like a tablet.
        
         | NaturalPhallacy wrote:
         | >- Cannot add a second phone but can add a tablet. As soon as
         | it detects a SIM card slot (with or without SIM in it) it only
         | allows you to set it up as the primary device, rather than a
         | secondary like a tablet.
         | 
         | This is so infuriating. I can have Signal with the same account
         | on my phone, my macbook pro, and my windows desktop, but not my
         | iPad Pro. It doesn't even have a SIM card in it. Just an empty
         | slot.
        
         | Black101 wrote:
         | > I'm currently using Signal on Windows/Android/iOS and apart
         | from two annoyances it is fine.
         | 
         | A third one would be that they require a phone number?
        
         | madeofpalk wrote:
         | > Including Apple Music currently.
         | 
         | Oh god. The Apple Music web app is so incredibly bad. Hands out
         | the worst web experience I've ever had. It flat out cannot do
         | its function (play music) reliably at all.
         | 
         | It made me switch to Spotify.
        
         | someonehere wrote:
         | You want half assed? FaceTime when it was announced by Steve
         | Jobs, he himself up on stage said it would be open source. The
         | developers in the front rows looked at each other and said,
         | "did we say it would be open sourced?"
         | 
         | It's still not open sourced to this day.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | reaperducer wrote:
           | _You want half assed?_
           | 
           | Not Apple's fault. See other replies in this thread that it
           | was killed by a patent troll.
        
             | DaiPlusPlus wrote:
             | Why would Apple be afraid of patent trolls? If they wanted
             | to release it as an open-specification, they could.
        
           | Y-bar wrote:
           | You are correct that the idea to make it open source was a
           | spur of the moment that took the developers by surprise. But
           | the reason why it never happens can be spelled VirnetX
        
           | cargo8 wrote:
           | TBF he said it would be an open protocol, not open-source.
           | That being said, obviously Apple still never followed
           | through...
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | avipars wrote:
       | Amazing move by apple
        
       | standardUser wrote:
       | I always use WhatsApp or Instagram for non-work video chatting.
       | FaceTime is completely irrelevant unless you just happen to have
       | your entire social circle using one company's hardware with no
       | exceptions.
        
         | CharlesW wrote:
         | > _FaceTime is completely irrelevant unless you just happen to
         | have your entire social circle using one company 's hardware
         | with no exceptions._
         | 
         | No option is universal (not one of my kids' friends uses
         | WhatsApp or Instagram, for example), although Zoom is near-
         | universal in my family's world. FaceTime is a great option for
         | friends/family who use iOS, and I'm glad to see Android and
         | Windows support. It wouldn't surprise me to see it join Apple
         | Music and Apple TV as an Android-native app.
        
           | lostgame wrote:
           | >> It wouldn't surprise me to see it join Apple Music and
           | Apple TV as an Android-native app.
           | 
           | I think the difference is those are paid subscription
           | services - so the rare Android user who decides they want to
           | pay for either of those services can - and the iOS user who
           | is already paying with a family plan can share it with their
           | kids' or SO's Android phones.
           | 
           | With FaceTime, it's a free service; and supporting it on
           | Android would just be a cost sink.
           | 
           | My two cents. :)
        
         | jrochkind1 wrote:
         | Right, so, that's why they announced the OP, to try to change
         | that, right?
        
         | k-mcgrady wrote:
         | ...and this changes that (to an extent) by allowing iOS/Mac
         | users to have FaceTime calls with people in different
         | ecosystems.
        
       | radicalbyte wrote:
       | As is, or will it be made good? The UX of the current version is
       | poor on iPad / OSX. That was fine in the past - Skype was the
       | only competition and that was horrible - but with Jitsi, Zoom and
       | Discord killing it they've fallen miles behind.
        
         | minimaxir wrote:
         | iOS 15 will have a lot of new Zoom-similar features. (e.g. Grid
         | View and Backgrounds)
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | _rs wrote:
           | I hope it would let you choose whether or not the video feeds
           | are cropped in or not, but I haven't seen anything to support
           | this.
           | 
           | One issue I have with group FaceTime that I noticed during
           | the pandemic is that it crops off the sides of the video to
           | make it square, so when you're video chatting with a bunch of
           | people (like, say, your family all sitting in front of an
           | iPad) you can't see everyone in frame even though the camera
           | is capturing them. With group FaceTime portrait/landscape
           | mode doesn't make any difference to even attempt to address
           | this, like it can for 1-1 FaceTime calls.
        
           | radicalbyte wrote:
           | What about the really basic stuff:
           | 
           | * Broken contact list (it's worse than Skype!).
           | 
           | * Broken screen orientation.
           | 
           | * Ringing on every Apple device you own under the sun.
           | 
           | With their A-Team now on the case I'm sure that it'll get
           | fixed.
        
             | pridkett wrote:
             | The screen orientation thing gets me - and it's been that
             | way for YEARS.
             | 
             | In short, unlike most every other app which seems to
             | actually use the orientation APIs, Facetime fakes it. This
             | works fine on your phone, but if you're trying to airplay
             | the call up to your TV so you can see people a little
             | larger, nope. You're stuck in portrait mode forever. You're
             | better off asking the other person to rotate their phone.
        
             | mercutio2 wrote:
             | What's broken about the contact list?
             | 
             | What's wrong with ringing all your Apple devices?
        
               | pyr0hu wrote:
               | parent wants Apple to build a telekinetic device that can
               | read parent's mind to decide which device to ring
               | 
               | (obligatory /s)
        
             | lotsofpulp wrote:
             | >* Ringing on every Apple device you own under the sun.
             | 
             | You can control which device(s) ring:
             | 
             | https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/phone-calls-ipad-
             | ipod...
        
         | HatchedLake721 wrote:
         | I think you're missing the point who FaceTime is made for.
         | 
         | Jitsi - heard of it once ages ago, never used it
         | 
         | Zoom - for business
         | 
         | Discord - gamers/teens?
         | 
         | They can carry on "killing it", but I'm not going to ask my mom
         | to install and signup for Discord. I'll FaceTime her or send
         | her a link she can 1-click join.
        
           | atatatat wrote:
           | Facetime is for users who think videocalls are called
           | "Facetime"
        
             | ftio wrote:
             | So, tens of millions of people. Seems like a reasonable
             | strategy for attracting non-iOS users to the iOS ecosystem
             | by enabling their massive user base to exert social
             | pressure.
        
               | tolbish wrote:
               | Or they could attract those users by making a better
               | product?
        
               | sleepybrett wrote:
               | Try before you buy.
        
           | fastball wrote:
           | Zoom is for everyone at this point, because a huge number of
           | people have had to install it for WFH/SFH.
        
           | spaceisballer wrote:
           | I love Jitsi, the main part being that I don't need an
           | account. It has always worked well for me, we use it for
           | "virtual happy hours" and well it's user friendly enough it
           | seems to be a big enough hurdle the not so technical saavy
           | seem to not get. There is an iOS app, or you just use a
           | browser. I guess it's normally the problem of making sure
           | people enable their camera and microphone. Any who, FaceTime
           | in browser seems like a big win for most people. People
           | generally know how to use Apple things.
        
           | ninkendo wrote:
           | I think Zoom is more "For everyone" than just for business.
           | At least until they decide to start charging for it.
        
             | lotsofpulp wrote:
             | It is amazing to me that FAMAG companies let Zoom into the
             | video call market. A half competent cross platform
             | implementation would have left no room for Zoom.
             | 
             | My parents use Zoom now, and my distant non tech literate
             | cousin in a developing country used Zoom to broadcast a
             | funeral from abroad during COVID to all the extended family
             | members around the world.
        
               | zoover2020 wrote:
               | Don't forget Amazon Chime! :')
        
           | teawrecks wrote:
           | Discord voice chat works in browser without an account. Not
           | sure about video, though. Discord has it's bugs, but IMO it's
           | categorically better than zoom.
        
             | t-writescode wrote:
             | Not for my grandmother. All those chat programs and
             | conversion stuff would confuse her.
        
       | alpb wrote:
       | I wonder with the screen sharing feature working on desktops as
       | well and meeting links that can be created ahead of time (w/
       | Calendar support), would it threaten the market for small teams
       | using Microsoft Teams, Slack, Discord, Google Meet etc.
        
       | golemiprague wrote:
       | Can't they just make an app like whatsapp or instagram or any
       | other messaging app does? They talk so much about diversity and
       | treating everyone the same but Apple is responsible for one of
       | the biggest class division these days. Kids who don't have iphone
       | are marginalised because the iphone kids use the internal apple
       | products rather than messaging/video that works cross platform.
       | It is not a problem where whatapp is the leading app but in the
       | US it seems like peole just use whatever in the iphone ecosystem.
       | They do it delierately and intentionally to lock more and more
       | people into their products while marginalising people who can't
       | afford it. This is a vicious policy that stand against everything
       | they seem to preach for.
        
       | twobitshifter wrote:
       | Steve Jobs notably said FaceTime was built to be an open standard
       | when he introduced it on June 7, _2010_.
        
         | quux wrote:
         | This may be urban legend but I remember hearing that the first
         | time the FaceTime team learned it was going to be an open
         | standard was when Steve announced it on stage.
        
         | p_l wrote:
         | That announcement came as big surprise to _everyone other than
         | Jobs_ , and then died of natural causes more so than because of
         | any patent troll.
        
         | rektide wrote:
         | And there is still seemingly zero expectation that FaceTime
         | will be a standard. It's still a closed proprietary system. One
         | that has web access to it now.
         | 
         | Will non-Apple device owners be able to start FaceTime chats?
         | TBD perhaps. Will non-Apple account holders be able to connect
         | to FaceTime rooms? Maybe. Will they be able to create chats?
         | Almost certainly not.
         | 
         | It's unfortunate that the real spirit of creativity &
         | innovation that Apple once believed in & knew has come to this.
         | This is "progress", but such a narrow, corporately provided &
         | limited window of progress, to me. I'm expecting friends will
         | start expecting me to have an Apple account now & be willing to
         | use their proprietary communications systems, now that the
         | barrier is a bit lower, but I'd really rather not.
        
         | justinsaccount wrote:
         | Close, he said they were going to make it standard (but then
         | never did):
         | 
         | "Now, FaceTime is based on a lot of open standards -- H.264
         | video, AAC audio, and a bunch of alphabet soup acronyms -- and
         | we're going to take it all the way. We're going to the
         | standards bodies starting tomorrow, and we're going to make
         | FaceTime an open industry standard."
        
           | chrischen wrote:
           | I believe it was something to do with the VirnetX patent
           | troll lawsuits that prevented them from fulling that
           | standard.
        
             | lotsofpulp wrote:
             | That Texas Eastern Court single handedly held back progress
             | for at least a decade for everyone in the world with their
             | insane patent troll rulings.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_District_Court_
             | f...
        
           | twobitshifter wrote:
           | Thanks for the correction. I've also read that FaceTime had
           | to change from p2p to using a central server for call
           | coordination after they were sued for patent violations. I
           | wonder if that's really what prevented it from being opened
           | up. https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/31/21543315/apple-
           | ordered-p...
        
         | skunkworker wrote:
         | It's suspected that this was thwarted by the VirnetX lawsuit.
         | And Apple had to do a "design around" [2].
         | 
         | https://www.cnet.com/news/steve-jobs-promised-to-make-faceti...
         | 
         | [2] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/08/report-after-
         | pat...
        
       | butz wrote:
       | Let's hope that FaceTime will work on Firefox too.
        
       | luke2m wrote:
       | Seems like something to take people's attention off their other
       | walled gardens.
        
       | marcodiego wrote:
       | If it is coming "via the web" doesn't this means linux support
       | too?
        
         | thekyle wrote:
         | I would say most likely yes.
        
       | nikolay wrote:
       | Apple is trailing behind Google and Samsung - all their "new"
       | features are a catching up with the market leaders.
        
         | sleepybrett wrote:
         | Hardly, the second screen functionality of samsung's tablets
         | only work with windows 10 last I checked. Many of the
         | continuity features that apple has been and continues to roll
         | out are not present on the android platform at all and in the
         | cases where they are (like second screen) they are to use a
         | technical term, janky.
        
           | nikolay wrote:
           | Sorry, forgot Microsoft and added it.
        
       | suyash wrote:
       | Death to FB messenger and WhatsApp ?
        
         | madeofpalk wrote:
         | Why?
        
       | NicoJuicy wrote:
       | So, people without an iDevice get less functionality?
       | 
       | Sounds like Apple.
        
         | neonological wrote:
         | 472 520 214 Westover
        
       | aj7 wrote:
       | But not iMessage, so I still can't send a simple text message
       | from a decent app from my Win 10 computer.
        
         | whatch wrote:
         | Telegram is pretty decent
        
         | nxc18 wrote:
         | Seeing as Microsoft had a major lead with Skype, MSN/Live
         | messenger, Xbox chat/parties, and Lync/Skype for Business among
         | others, and was also in the phone space before Apple, it is
         | kind of amazing messaging isn't a far superior experience on
         | Windows.
         | 
         | I remember in the windows 8 era they were pushing a unified
         | SMS/Skype metro app.
        
       | marinhero wrote:
       | Maybe this means Apple will bring iMessage to Android in a year
       | or two just to mess with Facebook Messenger.
        
         | gundmc wrote:
         | Apple could have brought iMessage to android at any time. They
         | explicitly choose not to because of the social pressure to buy
         | an iPhone this places on youth. This was pretty explicitly laid
         | out in the Epic v Apple case.
        
           | qalmakka wrote:
           | That plan only worked in the US though, and it spectacularly
           | backfired everywhere else, where iMessage is mostly
           | irrelevant.
           | 
           | I know a guy that never set up iMessage on his iPhone - when
           | I asked him why he didn't, he just told me he only uses SMS
           | for OTP which he reads from the notification, so it never
           | occured to him to open the Messages app at all.
        
             | raunak wrote:
             | It worked exceptionally well in the US though. You are a
             | weird teenager if you have "green texts" - anecdata of
             | course.
        
             | zamadatix wrote:
             | Doesn't seem like much of a "backfire", it gave Apple big
             | strides in the US market and at worst resulted in less
             | people using a free service Apple has to pay to operate in
             | other markets.
        
           | protomyth wrote:
           | Yeah, green means kick whoever isn't using Apple out of the
           | group chat. Apple basically promotes bullying of kids who
           | don't have an iPhone.
        
         | pier25 wrote:
         | I agree. This seems like Apple is finally conceding it needs to
         | bring FaceTime and Messages to Android and Windows, but it
         | wants to do it slowly so that it looks like they don't care
         | much.
         | 
         | BTW outside of the US, Whatsapp is (AFAIK) the most popular
         | messenger. At least in the Western world. I don't know about
         | China.
        
           | pyr0hu wrote:
           | Western EU, yes. Eastern, not sure, Messenger and Viber seems
           | more popular around Balkan for example
        
         | mitjak wrote:
         | ignorant q: does Messenger still hold much of market share?
         | over the last few years almost all of my contacts transitioned
         | to WhatsApp, Telegram or Signal. Messenger is just way too
         | bloated.
        
           | umeshunni wrote:
           | My impression is that teenagers just use Instagram chat these
           | days (or Snapchat).
        
       | AbraKdabra wrote:
       | Or just use Jitsi Meet which requires no login, is cross
       | platform, uses web standards and is open source.
        
       | 2fast4you wrote:
       | Let me know when they make an iMessage client for the web
        
       | phs wrote:
       | Oh my. This is the last use case for the last apple product in
       | the house.
        
       | ericffr wrote:
       | So Apple doing a webapp means that they want to avoid the 30% tax
       | from Android app store, if/when the need to charge comes up???
        
       | colesantiago wrote:
       | It would be great if Apple introduced FaceTime for Plan 9 OS,
       | that would be the only time I would use it IMO.
        
         | sgt wrote:
         | I heard they have a whole team on it. All ex Plan 9 developers
        
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