[HN Gopher] The T-34 keyboard layout
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The T-34 keyboard layout
Author : lawn
Score : 47 points
Date : 2021-06-07 10:44 UTC (12 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.jonashietala.se)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.jonashietala.se)
| k2enemy wrote:
| Just an FYI if the author is here. Benford's law applies to the
| leading (most significant) digit of numbers, not all digits.
|
| Nice article and analysis though. I recently built an Iris with
| low profile keycaps and absolutely love the feel of it. But it
| now sits on a shelf because it made working on other computers
| too confusing.
| sirodoht wrote:
| Side note: awesome body font :) Used to have the same one in my
| website.
| codethief wrote:
| > Nothing special going on with the function keys. Having them on
| the same positions as numbers makes them easy to learn, which is
| important for me as I almost never use them.
|
| Unfortunately, most manufacturers of ergonomic keyboards seem to
| think along the same lines, so they omit the corresponding
| hardware keys and argue that you could always put the function
| keys on another layer if you really need them. I, however, use my
| function keys hundreds of times a day (mainly to switch
| workspaces) and I do _not_ want to have press an extra key every
| single time.
|
| The key principle I follow with all my key bindings is this: The
| more often I use a certain functionality, the more accessible it
| needs to be, i.e. the less work (or, literally, _input_ ) it
| should require in order to avoid putting needless strain on my
| fingers and wrists. (I have suffered from RSI in the past.) In
| particular, oft-used commands[1] should be available through a
| single key (or a very short and accessible[0] key chord) if
| possible. Unfortunately, the most common set of key bindings
| (Vim/Emacs/IntelliJ/...) usually violate this principle.
|
| Long story short, this is the single reason why I haven't bought
| an ErgoDox/keyboardio/... so far.
|
| Also, I don't think it really matters whether personally one uses
| a key X or not. In my experience, you can never have enough keys!
| And you will find an application eventually - provided the key is
| in the right place ergonomically speaking, i.e. easy to reach.
|
| [0]: The more often I use a key chord, the stronger the fingers
| should be that push the individual keys - e.g. the thumb, index
| and middle finger.
|
| [1]: Commands, in turn, that are used only rarely should actually
| not be available through a key binding at all - no one remembers
| them and they only clutter the key binding space and cause
| confusion when you do (accidentally) hit those keys. Instead,
| those commands should be accessible through a searchable command
| palette. (Think Shift-Shift in IntelliJ.)
| neurotrace wrote:
| > Long story short, this is the single reason why I haven't
| bought an ErgoDox/keyboardio/... so far.
|
| I don't really understand this conclusion. The point of these
| programmable keyboards is you can make them as work-free as you
| need. If you hit your function keys all the time, you can make
| the number row produce a function key just by holding it for a
| little longer or do like what OP did and make number chords
| match a function key. Press 1+2 to get F1, 2+3 to get F2, etc.
|
| I understand not wanting to use a layer for everything which is
| why I don't care for ultra minimalist boards like the T-34 or
| Plank but an Ergodox has plenty of keys for my uses.
| Jenk wrote:
| The entire purpose of these layouts is to reduce movement to
| keys you most use. If you really are using the F-keys hundreds
| of times a day then it very much is in your ergonomic interest
| to bring those keys closer to the home row to make accessing
| them easier than stretching out for them.
| fouric wrote:
| > In particular, oft-used commands[1] should be available
| through a single key (or a very short and accessible[0] key
| chord) if possible.
|
| Wouldn't a _real_ ergonomic keyboard (i.e. Dactyl-Manuform or
| Squeezebox) with thumb clusters fit this bill? Those put the
| modifier keys on your thumbs, so a two-key chord (layer mod +
| main key - > function key) should be relatively "short and
| accessible", at least by my standards.
| hsbauauvhabzb wrote:
| If function keys switch workstations you're either violating
| your own rule or don't use workspaces enough.
| CarVac wrote:
| I'm always saddened by how few thumb keys many of these ergo
| boards have in comparison to the Mitosis layout, which lets me
| entirely avoid having anything but the most basic momentary
| layers, with no tap-dancing, latching, long-press-does-something-
| different, or chording.
| fouric wrote:
| I think that the Manuform's thumb clusters, while having
| slightly fewer keys (6 per hand vs 8), are more ergonomic than
| those of the Mitosis, due to allowing the thumbs to use their
| stronger movements (curling in vs. moving laterally).
|
| But, more generally, I agree - there's very little excuse for
| not having thumb clusters if you're trying to build an
| ergonomic keyboard.
| CarVac wrote:
| Obviously the 3D sculpting of the Dactyl Manuform can be
| better than a 2D layout, but the distinction I find in the
| Mitosis layout is the fact that the main thumb keys are two-
| tiered, letting me use one thumb to hit both shift and the
| number layer key simultaneously, or one at a time.
| barry27 wrote:
| To achieve goal A I must first achieve goal B, which requires
| goal C, etc. Turtles all the way down. Just get on with it qwerty
| style.
| geniium wrote:
| Interesting, but that must be hell to learn using that new multi
| layered layout.
| 1MachineElf wrote:
| Not plugging to promote it, just to call attention to a design
| pattern I used in my 34-key layout (same number as the
| author's) that made it less hellish to learn (albeit, one has
| to know dvorak, but it's probably adaptable to something more
| intuitive.) The layout has two layer keys that can be used
| together to switch between 4 layers in total, with the default
| one being dvorak alphas, the left one being Mods for modifiers,
| the right one being Nums for numbers, and combined Mods and
| Nums for extra modifiers. Here's an except from the readme:
|
| Hold Mods + Tap E = Enter
|
| Hold Mods + Hold Nums + Tap E = Escape
|
| Hold Mods + Tap B = Backspace
|
| Hold Mods + Tap D = Delete
|
| Hold Mods + Tap T = Tab
|
| So I found this was very easy to adapt to because the most
| important modifiers are in places that are very intuitively
| memorized. It's something to consider if you want to go down
| this road.
|
| Link:
| https://github.com/1MachineElf/qmk_firmware/tree/_sb4dv/keyb...
| DavidVoid wrote:
| Always cool to see people make their own layouts. Those chords
| are quite a neat feature.
|
| If you want to try something that's a lot more chord-based and
| which uses even fewer keys (basically just 23 keys), then I'd
| recommend downloading Plover and learning Steno. It takes quite a
| while to learn, but once you do it's very comfortable and can be
| very fast.
|
| Here's steno on a hobby machine at 202 WPM for example:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APT7SN1iof8
| sdfin wrote:
| Does is work for programming? and does it work for typing in
| different languages?
| DavidVoid wrote:
| > Does it work for programming?
|
| Yes, you can customize your dictionaries as much as you like
| and add common words/symbols that you use in programming, and
| there are decent options for writing in camelCase etc.
| There's also Emily's symbol dictionary which is good for
| writing various symbols [1], here's a poster showing all the
| symbols available in it [2].
|
| > does it work for typing in different languages?
|
| Yes. As long as there's an existing steno theory for the
| languages you want to use, then you can download those
| dictionaries and learn those theories. But if there isn't an
| existing theory/dictionary for a language then you can just
| use fingerspelling instead [3] (i.e., write letter by letter
| like on a regular keyboard), although that's ofc much slower
| than regular Steno is.
|
| [1] https://github.com/EPLHREU/emily-symbols
|
| [2] https://steno.sammdot.ca/emily-symbols.png
|
| [3] https://steno.sammdot.ca/plover-fingerspelling.png
| MivLives wrote:
| The dev of it uses it to code the program itself.
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