[HN Gopher] Not a drill: VMware vuln with 9.8 severity rating is...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Not a drill: VMware vuln with 9.8 severity rating is under attack
        
       Author : jbonniwell
       Score  : 321 points
       Date   : 2021-06-04 20:34 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (arstechnica.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (arstechnica.com)
        
       | colonelxc wrote:
       | Not even the first preauth VSphere RCE this year:
       | https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2021-2197...
        
       | terminalserver wrote:
       | 9.8 out of 10?
       | 
       | What's the .2 represent?
        
         | formerly_proven wrote:
         | No access to nuke launch codes
        
         | tyingq wrote:
         | There's a calculator like thingy here:
         | https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln-metrics/cvss/v3-calculator?name=CV...
         | 
         | Down at the "Scope" section there's "changed" and "unchanged".
         | If you click on "changed", it goes from 9.8 to 10.0.
        
       | merb wrote:
       | why do people putting their vmware vcenter onto the internet?
        
         | Jedd wrote:
         | If you're an organisation with vCenter, even if you don't have
         | it 'onto the internet' you're far from safe. Your exposure then
         | is _merely_ every user and every (other) device on your
         | internal network that has routable access to your vCenter.
         | 
         | But yes, exposing highly sensitive tools to a wide,
         | untrackable, and frequently hostile audience is not good
         | practice.
        
           | croutonwagon wrote:
           | This patch was pretty easy to apply too. Didnt even need a
           | reboot IIRC
        
           | sp332 wrote:
           | And all the remote devices connected by VPN. With everyone
           | working from home, that's a pretty high number too.
        
         | 0xbadcafebee wrote:
         | Why do people put hospital equipment on the internet? Why do
         | people order steak well done? People are stupid.
        
           | taneq wrote:
           | Don't steakshame.
        
           | cj wrote:
           | Or to put it m0re sanely, people have many priorities.
           | Cybersecurity does not rank very highly for many people
           | (rightly or wrongly).
        
           | touisteur wrote:
           | Some people rightly don't trust their 'butcher' or the meat
           | chain of custody _that much_. We eat shredded raw beef meat
           | here and even I sometimes wince at the idea...
        
         | tyingq wrote:
         | Sadly, it's probably happening more with all the "work from
         | home". I imagine lots of Shodan queries for vcenter right now.
         | Apparently "intitle:id_vc_welcome" returns vcenter servers on
         | Google.
        
           | mschuster91 wrote:
           | Even for WFH: just set up a damn openvpn in front of the
           | vcenter server, if you don't have the money for a Cisco
           | Anyconnect appliance.
           | 
           | It's not _that_ hard, and anyone ignorant enough to expose a
           | vCenter to the Internet deserves being shut down. This is
           | unacceptably incompetent.
        
             | oarsinsync wrote:
             | > Even for WFH: just set up a damn openvpn in front of the
             | vcenter server, if you don't have the money for a Cisco
             | Anyconnect appliance. It's not that hard
             | 
             | If your business depends on employees that are working
             | remotely, and you have critical services behind a VPN, your
             | VPN solution is now a critical service too, and should be
             | built and managed accordingly.
             | 
             | Just throwing an OpenVPN host up isn't enough. If you're
             | going down that road, you need multiple OpenVPN hosts, each
             | one "hardened" (since they're internet facing), and a
             | mechanism to deploy the VPN clients (and certificates) to
             | the users. You then need to do this a second time too for
             | an entirely different VPN solution (OpenConnect? WireGuard?
             | StrongSWAN?), in case the first one suffers a vulnerability
             | that you can't immediately mitigate and instead just needs
             | to be shutdown.
             | 
             | Like most technology solutions, this is only trivial to
             | resolve if you're operating at a really small scale, all
             | your users are tech savvy, and you don't treat it as a
             | business critical service.
             | 
             | The moment your business depends on it, it either ceases to
             | be trivial, or becomes a large source of operational risk.
        
               | mschuster91 wrote:
               | Agreed, but anyone running vCenter on their own is
               | _already_ running complex and expensive infrastructure.
               | 
               | There is simply no excuse _at all_ for having it directly
               | wired to the Internet. _None_.
        
             | ocdtrekkie wrote:
             | FWIW, attackers are also constantly trying to exploit
             | vulnerabilities in your AnyConnect appliance...
        
         | perlgeek wrote:
         | Lots of hosting companies use vcenter for managing their VMs,
         | and if you expose vcenter to your customers, you have a very
         | convenient way to have the powercycle VMs, open consoles and
         | stuff like that.
         | 
         | And if you expose it to your customers, you either have to
         | force them to use a VPN (and support it for even their dumbest
         | users), or you expose it on the Internet.
         | 
         | Not great security wise, but the economics do push you into
         | that direction.
        
           | fulafel wrote:
           | Also, if you look at the vulnerability track record of
           | commercial VPN products recently (some mentioned in this
           | article even), they aren't necessarily any safer to keep
           | publically accessible.
        
         | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
         | I think that if it's possible then people will do it. There are
         | so many humans and businesses that it's a certainty.
        
       | nick__m wrote:
       | A poc appears to be available there :
       | https://github.com/xnianq/cve-2021-21985_exp !
       | 
       | P.s. I use yandex to find CVE POC, google is almost useless for
       | that kind of search and yandex almost always deliver working code
       | !
        
         | zwp wrote:
         | Nice find.
         | 
         | I'm hopefully preaching to the choir here but please beware
         | that high-visibility flaws often attract fake PoCs. Malicious
         | in the sense "might [also] attack the user" (you!).
         | 
         | Often these will surf on work done by valid PoCs to look
         | credible. GitHub was stuffed with them for the Hafnium Exchange
         | bug, before Microsoft brought down the ban hammer. (At the time
         | there was lots of mewing about "Microsoft protecting their own"
         | and "Microsoft killing free speech" but I wonder if they
         | weren't also interested in stopping the pwnage from these fake
         | exploits, too).
         | 
         | I'm not saying this repo is malicious. This github user looks
         | legitimate and doesn't look like the obviously-created-by-a-bot
         | profiles I've previously seen. Even so I wouldn't necessarily
         | trust ~5000 vendored class files. Play carefully.
        
           | faeyanpiraat wrote:
           | This is the reason why I have to stay away from hackintosh
           | with their modified kexts.
           | 
           | And have to stay away from pirated games.
           | 
           | A compiled executable from a trustworthy vendor gets a score
           | of 1/65 on virustotal? Well, I guess you are running in a
           | sandbox..
           | 
           | A legit library has enormous number of lines? Well I'm
           | rolling my own (except for crypto, noone should roll their
           | own)
           | 
           | I just cannot take the risk anymore.
        
             | alanfranz wrote:
             | Vanilla hackintosh with opencore and the right hardware is
             | possible.
        
             | gjs278 wrote:
             | you're a liar, you don't do that.
        
         | rootsudo wrote:
         | Nice on the Yandex info. Thank you :)
        
           | nick__m wrote:
           | My pleasure if you use that knowledge for good!
           | 
           | I use those POC to help the infosec team at work when the
           | bosses postpone patching. There is nothing like a demo to
           | persuade them we must patch now.
        
         | scoopertrooper wrote:
         | Github search also often does the trick.
         | 
         | https://github.com/search?q=cve-2021-21985
        
       | gwbas1c wrote:
       | I worked briefly at VMware. An exploit like this doesn't surprise
       | me one bit.
       | 
       | We had a company mailing list that people used to email jokes
       | back and forth all the time.
       | 
       | One rather ignorant programmer put a rule on his email where he
       | would get an alert whenever anybody emailed him with a particular
       | word in the subject line. That word happened to get into a rather
       | popular email thread, and in the middle of the thread we started
       | getting complaints from him asking us to change the subject line
       | because his pager was beeping off the hook.
       | 
       | Career limiting move! He took a lot of heat for making poor
       | assumptions.
        
         | remram wrote:
         | I fail see what that anecdote says about the company, even if
         | the person you described happened to work there?
        
           | gwbas1c wrote:
           | Because vulnerabilites arise from programmers making poor
           | assumptions.
        
             | yokaze wrote:
             | Yes, but you wrote a story about a single programmer, and
             | that he took a lot of heat for that. The doesn't sound
             | systemic to me.
        
             | ostenning wrote:
             | Nice assumption
        
         | gjs278 wrote:
         | this is the stupidest story ive ever read. maybe HN was right
         | to make the text fucking impossible to read.
        
       | justusthane wrote:
       | If you don't use the vCenter plugins in which the vulnerabilities
       | exist (vSAN Health Check, vROPS Manager), it's incredibly easy to
       | mitigate this vulnerability by manually marking these plugins as
       | incompatible: https://kb.vmware.com/s/article/83829
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | anonymousiam wrote:
       | It's safe to say that anybody who exposes VCenter directly to the
       | web is practicing poor security. I cannot imagine any scenario
       | where this would be required. I manage a few VxRail/vSphere
       | clusters and everything is behind firewalls and VPNs.
       | 
       | That said, I understand that this vulnerability basically gives
       | root to anyone with VPN access. In our case, pretty much anyone
       | who has VPN access to the cluster already has root on it anyway.
        
       | ssakamoto wrote:
       | Website in tweet appears to be filled with suspicious malware
       | like contents, beware
        
       | hgo wrote:
       | Dear arstechnica, please don't write articles like this, where
       | you make it seem like curl is somehow related or even the cause:
       | "It can be reproduced using five requests from cURL, a command-
       | line tool that transfers data using HTTP, HTTPS, IMAP, and other
       | common Internet protocols." I find it quite untasteful to somehow
       | sneak an plug for curl in here at all.
       | 
       | Thinking of: "I will slaughter you", where Daniel explains how he
       | gets death threats from clueless sysadmins that see that they
       | have been hacked by someone that used curl.
       | 
       | https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2021/02/19/i-will-slaughter-you/
       | 
       | Edit: I have e-mailed the author, but someone that use Twitter
       | may want to try and reach the author on @dangoodin001. Thank you.
        
         | lallysingh wrote:
         | They should've at least mentioned that cURL is reputable. Like
         | a "standard" tool. They can cut "common" out of that
         | description with no loss.
        
         | tinus_hn wrote:
         | I don't think it is proper to try to mobilize people to harass
         | a Twitter account.
        
         | SyzygistSix wrote:
         | I feel like referring to the person who sent Daniel those
         | emails a sysadmin is rather generous.
        
         | ComodoHacker wrote:
         | I can't see how it's a "sneak an plug" here. It's just a
         | constatation of how easily exploitable the flaw is, using
         | common tools like cURL.
         | 
         | If an insecure website can be hacked using only dev tools in
         | the browser, does anyone blame browser vendor?
        
           | hgo wrote:
           | I guess you're right, but in this context it's clear by
           | curl's author's blog post mentioned in my original post, that
           | cause can be easily confused by less technically savy
           | readers.
        
             | bigyikes wrote:
             | I am interested in knowing which readers are technical
             | enough to know or care what cURL is, but not technical
             | enough to understand that the vulnerability isn't in cURL
             | itself.
        
               | ldarby wrote:
               | Are you aware of this story:
               | https://www.theregister.com/2006/03/24/tuttle_centos/ ?
        
               | lallysingh wrote:
               | You can know that cURL is some app, she then give it's
               | web pages on the internet.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | xwolfi wrote:
             | You mean absolute morons ? I'm sorry but your little war
             | against ars technica will have to wait for an actual
             | problem: saying you can exploit a vulnerability with cURL
             | has really nothing to do with cURL... I mean who in the
             | world woud think "oh then I need to delete cURL"?
             | 
             | Sorry but your disdain for "less technical readers" is
             | frankly insulting.
        
               | detaro wrote:
               | You consider people sending death threats to developers
               | because they think curl is some evil hacking tool not an
               | "actual problem", despite it already having happened? We
               | sadly share the world with "absolute morons", yes.
               | 
               | (also, how is asking for a change a "war" against the
               | publication?)
        
         | TheAdamAndChe wrote:
         | Nothing about the article implies cURL is responsible for the
         | exploit, only that it can be used to leverage the exploit. It's
         | relevant and good to know, and shouldn't be removed IMO.
        
           | vgaldikas wrote:
           | I understand that it's nothing to do with curl specifically,
           | you understand it, good chunk of HN users do understand it.
           | But general public doesn't really
        
           | nkrisc wrote:
           | It's strange to mention cURL specifically in this context. If
           | the exploit only takes 5 HTTP requests, why not just say "5
           | HTTP requests"? Why does the article need to mention cURL at
           | all if it's not relevant how those requests are sent? Unless
           | cURL is relevant, but that's now how the article is written.
           | 
           | If they're trying to get across to a non-technical audience
           | how easy it is, then why mention cURL? They're not going to
           | know what cURL is, as evidenced by the explainer following
           | immediately. Why not just say, "5 HTTP requests sent by the
           | command line"?
        
             | TheAdamAndChe wrote:
             | HTTP exploit requests can be pretty complicated, and the
             | use of cURL hints that it's a dirt simple exploit to
             | leverage.
             | 
             | This is an arstechnica article, their target demographic is
             | more technically literate than the lowest common
             | denominator.
        
               | oasisbob wrote:
               | > HTTP exploit requests can be pretty complicated, and
               | the use of cURL hints that it's a dirt simple exploit to
               | leverage.
               | 
               | Why would that be? Curl can perform incredibly
               | complicated requests to the point where they're barely
               | legible on the command line.
        
               | nkrisc wrote:
               | Right, I understand. My point is that if they're going to
               | mention cURL, but then describe it as "a command-line
               | tool that transfers data using HTTP, HTTPS, IMAP, and
               | other common Internet protocols." why not just say the
               | attack can be executed directly from the command line?
               | Any techincally literate audience will understand that
               | implies cURL (or any other tool!) and an non-technical
               | audience will understand its simplicity, if that is in
               | fact the case.
               | 
               | I still think it's strange to mention cURL specifically
               | in the way they did and agree with the GP. Here's another
               | terrible analogy for the HN archives, but it's kind of
               | like saying, "the smash-and-grab on the jewel store can
               | committed with a Stanley(tm) 16 oz Curved Claw Fiberglass
               | Hammer" when of course any heavy, handheld object will
               | do.
        
               | thaumasiotes wrote:
               | > why not just say the attack can be executed directly
               | from the command line? Any techincally literate audience
               | will understand that implies cURL (or any other tool!)
               | and an non-technical audience will understand its
               | simplicity, if that is in fact the case.
               | 
               | I mean, the normal way to use curl for this kind of thing
               | is to define the request you want to send in a file and
               | tell curl to read the file. There's no requirement -- or
               | implication -- of simplicity in an attack that "you can
               | execute from the command line"; that description refers
               | to every possible attack. It's meaningless. There's
               | nothing you can do that you can't do from the command
               | line.
        
               | TheAdamAndChe wrote:
               | cURL has above-average name recognition. It's like
               | mentioning a Dremel tool instead of a handheld rotary
               | tool.
        
               | ldarby wrote:
               | > cURL has above-average name recognition.
               | 
               | It might to you and people in your circle, but that's not
               | the entire audience of the article. I wouldn't assume
               | everyone knows what a Dremel is either.
        
             | codyb wrote:
             | It might just be a common journalistic practice to briefly
             | profile any name introduced into an article.
        
               | reshlo wrote:
               | But why did they need to introduce cURL into the article?
        
         | ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote:
         | cURL is used for this purpose all the time, it's perfectly
         | legitimate to mention it in this context, it's only factual.
         | 
         | If you have to censor your content to account for the stupid
         | and the mentally ill (slaughter guy sounds schizophrenic
         | complete with delusions of grandeur and persecution syndrome),
         | you will have to stop posting completely.
         | 
         | What I find very distasteful is your attempt to incite people
         | to harass the author over social media.
        
       | tptacek wrote:
       | Just a reminder that these severity ratings, while often
       | directionally useful (a 9.x probably is something you should care
       | about if you run the target software; a 2.x is _probably_ not),
       | the ratings themselves are total horseshit and are running
       | industry joke; literally a Ouija board, starting from a
       | hopelessly ambiguous  "calculator" that you run and then apply
       | subtle inputs to to get the score where you want it to be.
        
         | cj wrote:
         | (Just curious) is there something about this that lacks
         | substance? Sure, a CVE rated 8.6 vs a CVE 9.8 may or may not be
         | worse than the other, but is there a better mechanism to
         | communicate severity other than this, or something like
         | "Medium", "High", "Critical", struggling to see your point.
        
           | tptacek wrote:
           | I'm exclusively back on my bullshit about CVSS being a
           | debacle, and hoping that if I whine about it enough, people
           | will stop putting CVSS scores in headlines, because they're
           | meaningless. "Critical" does a fine job.
        
             | Buttons840 wrote:
             | "Critical" reminds me of the urgency every new feature
             | request receives in the backlog.
        
               | arcticbull wrote:
               | Or a Windows Update that requires a reboot.
        
               | laurent92 wrote:
               | Ah yes, the ACEI scale: ASAP, Critical, Emergency, and In
               | progress. In Progress being the only thing that actually
               | gets done. The rest is conjecture. ASAP will never get
               | done.
        
               | rswail wrote:
               | Any earlier than "possible" is obviously "impossible".
        
               | OJFord wrote:
               | But you don't have to do things 'as soon as' they're
               | 'possible'. It does have meaning.
        
               | magicalhippo wrote:
               | My dad used to joke he kept three piles of papers on his
               | desk at work: "urgent", "very urgent" and "no longer
               | urgent".
        
               | jolux wrote:
               | Sounds like you have a dysfunctional organization.
        
               | KMag wrote:
               | With apologies to Cardinal Richelieu, give me 6 items
               | from the policies of the most functional large
               | organization, and I will find something in them which
               | will hang it.
               | 
               | If you don't see dysfunction, you're not looking closely
               | enough. That's not to say all organizations are
               | equivalently dysfunctional or that we shouldn't strive
               | for better. I'm just saying that "dysfunctional" isn't a
               | damning accusation.
        
               | jolux wrote:
               | Absolutely, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be trying
               | to resolve problems all the same. Teams not having
               | control over their work is inefficient.
        
             | whoknowswhat11 wrote:
             | I have users forward me critical security alerts all the
             | time - most are not even close to critical.
             | 
             | I like the scores - just ask them - what's the score.
        
         | pts_ wrote:
         | Getting a web shell speaks for itself.
        
           | bawolff wrote:
           | Context matters a bit. From what i understand its a plugin
           | that's only sometimes used and would typically (but clearly
           | not always) be not exposed to the internet.
           | 
           | So its a serious vuln, but not as serious as say if it was in
           | a component that was always exposed to the internet in the
           | core part of vmware. I guess vulns can always be worse.
           | 
           | How bad it is depends on how you use vmware. I mean
           | regardless, clearly everyone affected should patch.
        
         | vosper wrote:
         | > the ratings themselves are total horseshit and are running
         | industry joke
         | 
         | Any further references to this? I'd love to have something I
         | can send around internally. The people running Tenable tend to
         | treat these numbers as gospel.
        
           | ramimac wrote:
           | Honestly, I'm sure there are better sources - but this might
           | be worthwhile just for the irony:
           | https://www.tenable.com/blog/why-you-need-to-stop-using-
           | cvss...
        
           | formerly_proven wrote:
           | This isn't specific to CVSS, it's the same for literally any
           | kind of security-related rating or classification system.
        
           | bitexploder wrote:
           | Well, just pull up a CVSS calculator and start asking
           | yourself questions and playing with it. As a fun game we
           | would have people independently rate bugs on our Slack, mind
           | you these are seasoned information security consultants that
           | have broken a lot of software, and the ratings were
           | hilariously far apart. Ask everyone to rate it
           | low/medium/high/critical and consensus was pretty easy to
           | achieve. Anyway the point is the criteria are quite
           | subjectively. What comes out seems very quantitative, but
           | it's basically a pile of Jello in terms of how solid it is.
        
           | beermonster wrote:
           | You really should be performing your own risk assessment so
           | you can convert this notional context-free severity rating to
           | your own context-related impact and likelihood to give you
           | your own company risk rating. Ratings over a certain number
           | (to be agree with at board level - in effect your risk
           | appetite) should be treated (risk remediated, removed,
           | transferred to a third party etc etc).
           | 
           | We also do this with pen test reports which suffer the same
           | kinds of issues.
           | 
           | Usually find that sometimes a medium is a critical for us and
           | some times a high is a low for us - based on performing this
           | kind of assessment.
        
             | vosper wrote:
             | > You really should be performing your own risk assessment
             | so you can convert this notional context-free severity
             | rating to your own context-related impact and likelihood to
             | give you your own company risk rating.
             | 
             | Totally agree, and I do that - check the vulnerability
             | description, see if we're using that part of the library,
             | etc... it usually works out that we're not actually
             | affected by whatever the alert is.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | bottled_poe wrote:
         | In my mind there are only two factors that matter: the
         | accessibility of the attack vector and the extent of the blast
         | area if the target is compromised.
        
         | rorykoehler wrote:
         | I always use them as a guide for what we should talk about
         | first to then give them our own internal rating. Typically vuln
         | criticality is very system specific.
        
         | jcims wrote:
         | I got out of vulnerability management ~10 years ago and moved
         | into other domains where I didn't really work around CVEs and
         | vulnerability reporting. I dipped my toes back in late last
         | year and couldn't believe that basically nothing had changed.
        
           | gogopuppygogo wrote:
           | The attacks are getting more funding and are exponentially
           | more sophisticated. The investment in prevention is meh
           | comparably.
        
         | kjs3 wrote:
         | I hear this argument all the time. It's always followed by some
         | variation of "and that's why we're not going to address this in
         | a timely manner".
        
         | px43 wrote:
         | The funny thing about infosec taxonomies is that actual attacks
         | actively resist classifications like CVSS.
         | 
         | CVSS is generally used on the sysadmin side to figure out what
         | to patch first. Successful attackers generally go after shit
         | that's unpatched. This often means that the most exploited bugs
         | are the ones with the lowest CVSS scores, so new tools and
         | techniques tend to grow around issues that sysadmins consider
         | to not be a big deal.
         | 
         | People eventually catch on that the "no big deal" bugs are
         | getting exploited en-masse, and try to tweak the scoring
         | process, which is why we're on CVSSv3 now with CVSSv4 in the
         | works, and it's just as useless as it's always been.
        
       | na85 wrote:
       | It can't be _that_ bad, since I haven 't seen a flashy website
       | for this vuln, complete with a logo, making the rounds on social
       | media.
        
         | KirillPanov wrote:
         | All that means is that the first person to find the vuln wasn't
         | a grad student hoping for a faculty job.
        
         | yarg wrote:
         | It needs a cool name too; the VisorShatter breach.
        
         | franciscop wrote:
         | VMBeware.com is available and a nice catchy name for a VMWare
         | bug IMHO. Please cite me if you use it :)
        
           | kzrdude wrote:
           | It's close to slander to use such a name, I'm afraid.
        
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