[HN Gopher] UK and EU launch antitrust probes into Facebook
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UK and EU launch antitrust probes into Facebook
Author : helsinkiandrew
Score : 129 points
Date : 2021-06-04 11:44 UTC (11 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.ft.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.ft.com)
| mrweasel wrote:
| From:
| https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_21_...
|
| > We will look in detail at whether this data gives Facebook an
| undue competitive advantage
|
| Isn't that a lose/lose for Facebook? Either the answer is "Yes"
| and they'll be fined or it's "No" which makes advertisers
| question whether or not they could get the same product cheaper
| elsewhere.
| indy wrote:
| Advertisers will be aware that Facebook will argue "No" when
| the reality is "Yes"
| asdfasgasdgasdg wrote:
| Another alternative would be that Facebook will acknowledge
| that it gives them an advantage, but argue that that advantage
| is not undue. I would assume that whenever a firm does a thing,
| it is because that thing is advantageous or else reduces some
| disadvantage. That is as it should be. The trouble is when the
| advantages stack up to create monopoly power and/or run afoul
| of consumer or industry protection laws.
| goatinaboat wrote:
| Probe, probe, probe, that's all they ever do. But they know and
| Facebook knows that no action will ever be taken
| rvz wrote:
| Well the United States v Google case is still there. Would have
| been much better if Facebook was the target at the time but who
| knows.
|
| The case would probably end up getting thrown out altogether.
| kaesar14 wrote:
| Unfortunately this is probably the case. I don't see any
| alternative to the US pursuing an actual antitrust case against
| Facebook. No other lawmaking body has the full power over
| Facebook that's needed to hold them accountable.
| hadrien01 wrote:
| The article is paywalled, here's the EC announcement:
| https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_21_...
| SecurityLagoon wrote:
| Pay-walled news should be banned on HN unless it really is the
| only source. There are a bunch of outlets not hiding this story
| behind one and linking to a paywall is just terrible for
| engagement.
|
| Here is the UK announcement
| https://www.gov.uk/government/news/cma-investigates-facebook...
| helsinkiandrew wrote:
| I did a quick search for other news sites with the story
| before posting but couldn't find (this page appears to be
| free to view if you have an account)
|
| It's on Reuters and Bloomberg now:
|
| https://www.reuters.com/technology/eu-antitrust-
| regulators-i...
|
| https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/facebook-is-
| vestager...
| dang wrote:
| If there's a workaround, it's ok. Users usually post
| workarounds in the thread.
|
| This is in the FAQ at
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html and there's more
| explanation here:
|
| https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so.
| ..
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10178989
| chrisseaton wrote:
| Posting pay-walled sites is not banned here, but complaining
| about them _is_ , so please don't bore everyone with it.
| Opt_Out_Fed_IRS wrote:
| Can I ask a question?
|
| Zuck has structured the company in such a way that he'll be at
| the helm until he is 90 or gets bored.
|
| Given this situation why doesn't he attack regulators and
| politcians who attack him?
|
| In the long run acquiring the reputation of somebody who doesn't
| just lay there and take it would serve him and the company
| better.
|
| It seems to me that after 2/3 years of disputes, he'd acquire
| such reputation and would be left alone. No politician has enough
| political goodwill to sign off a Facebook breakup and survive,
| not even Biden himself, so why doesn't he make this clear for the
| doubters on Wall Street.
|
| By making it clear I mean going on the attack , knowing that they
| can't do much to hurt him.
|
| As these news drop he should be saying stuff like:
|
| "They are trying to destroy and disintegrate Facebook and
| Instagram"
|
| Seems to me Facebook and companies in general have to enter the
| culture wars battlefield
| stevespang wrote:
| Hey Zuck, enjoy your day, arsehole !
| varispeed wrote:
| It's 5 years too late, however it is welcome still.
|
| It's a shame that it is missing the most important part where
| company such as Facebook gets their competitive advantage over
| smaller local companies - that is tax avoidance. You cannot
| compete with a company that has a significantly smaller tax
| burden than yours.
|
| I think the UK and EU should be looking at creativity of
| accounting, how money flows between entities and how profits
| disappear or are converted into tax free or near tax free money.
| They need to look also how this money is then is being used. Is
| it used for lobbying? Hostile take overs?
|
| I am worried that these days regulators sound tough to signal
| they won't sell themselves cheap, then lobbyists get involved and
| the whole issue melts away, except that another cohort of
| politicians get rich. It's a vicious circle.
| TacticalCoder wrote:
| > I think the UK and EU should be looking at creativity of
| accounting
|
| I think the EU should look into the crazy high tax rates people
| and companies can experience in the EU and set a hard cap,
| because it is out of control.
|
| For a start it'd be fair games if it was legally disallowed to
| tax individual at a higher tax rate than what EU servants are
| paying (somewhere between 5% to 12%, while for "plebs" not
| working in the EU it can quickly go above 50%. 50% + 19% social
| wellfare tax in my case).
|
| I've personally had enough. I'm an expat now. I just created a
| company with another expat, living in another continent, and we
| picked a business-friendly place to incorporate.
|
| The EU could have had my business had they been showing some
| willingness to be nice to business. But it only ever seems to
| go in the way of more taxes no matter which EU country you're
| in. Screw that: I'm out.
|
| > ... except that another cohort of politicians get rich
|
| That said I'm not sure politicians in the EU get very rich.
| It's not the US nor Russia where you get politicians
| billionaires (at least it's really not common). I don't think
| the president of France, for example, is paid more than an
| average SV wage (I think it's actually half that). The
| uncovered bribing cases in the EU have mostly been very petty:
| it's really sad for how cheap votes can be bought (say a dinner
| and a week-end paid in a nice hotel). We're talking about EU
| member of the European Parliament cheating on "presence
| tickets" (pretending they're there to vote when they're not) to
| collect about 300 EUR everytime they cheat (absenteism is so
| big that they had to incentive MEP to vote by introducing
| tickets were they'd get a little bonus everytime they vote).
| MEPs are cheating by signing in the friday mornings (votes are
| typically done on friday), so they get their 300 EUR bonus, but
| then they go home for the week-end. That's petty mindset, to
| make petty money, not rich.
| kaesar14 wrote:
| I can't think of any politicians who became billionaires
| after being a US politician. Certainly some (rather famous)
| examples of billionaires who ran for office but the richest
| member of Congress is worth like a quarter of a billion
| dollars. Are there really no EU politicians worth that kind
| of money? There must be some descended-from-royalty members
| of Parliament somewhere.
| dboreham wrote:
| Descended from royalty people generally are not wealthy.
| kaesar14 wrote:
| Descended from royalty, descended from old merchant
| families, I just meant old money.
| justapassenger wrote:
| This applies to every single big company. Current tax codes
| heavily promote being big company, that can afford all the tax
| optimization/evasion. Our economy forces you to grow big, so
| you can get benefits of scale, and have enough resources to
| invest into tax optimization.
| varispeed wrote:
| And this is wrong as it discourages entrepreneurship and
| ensures that if you are born poor, you are destined to be a
| wage slave. That of course unless you get a bank loan or
| capture interest of "angel investors" and share your business
| with them.
| toyg wrote:
| _> I think the UK and EU should be looking at creativity of
| accounting_
|
| They are:
| https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/04/european-finan...
|
| This is something that has been decades in the making. The
| combination of Covid and political-wind changes in the US seems
| to have created a historic opening to address one of the
| biggest issues about globalized trade. Fingers crossed that
| something can be put in writing this year, it has the potential
| for going into the history books just after Bretton Woods and
| Maastricht.
| varispeed wrote:
| The article talks mostly about proposed minimum CT rate. It
| seems like something FAANG companies would love to be
| implemented - as they can say you see we are in the clear,
| the tax avoidance measures are up and we comply... and then
| they continue to hide profits, meaning business as usual.
| This meeting seems like virtue signalling rather than
| something with material consequences. I hope I am wrong.
| toyg wrote:
| FAANG are the declared target of this action, if they find
| loopholes too quickly these governments will throw the book
| at them. A pound of flesh is necessary, at least for some
| time. I don't doubt that they'll find new loopholes
| eventually, but for a while they'll have to pay more.
| varispeed wrote:
| CT is the easiest tax to avoid and FAANG companies can
| provide states with a wealth of surveillance data. I
| think it will be the business as usual.
| londons_explore wrote:
| The EU has done some pretty sizable fines in the past...
|
| The kind of fines that have to be announced to shareholders and
| reduce profits substantially for a quarter...
| foepys wrote:
| The sad reality is that that the EU may have issued the fines
| but there are so many ways to delay paying them that it takes
| years for the EU to collect. I'm not even sure that Microsoft
| already paid their fine for the antitrust case from 2004.
| justapassenger wrote:
| And at the same time eu is one of the best places to practice
| tax avoidance, with all inconsistent tax codes, combined with
| free market.
|
| Those fines are fighting symptoms. Root causes of
| inconsistent law aren't targeted. And for a reason - it
| allows EU to be business friendly, and at the same time keep
| tools to go after companies they view unfavorable.
| libertine wrote:
| Shouldn't Google be probed first?
| neonate wrote:
| https://archive.md/InXnJ
| Dolpahimide wrote:
| The CMA said it would also investigate Facebook's role in online
| dating via Facebook Dating, a dating profile service launched in
| Europe in 2020.
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