[HN Gopher] Toyota launches groundbreaking 10-year warranty (in UK)
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Toyota launches groundbreaking 10-year warranty (in UK)
Author : vanburen
Score : 109 points
Date : 2021-06-03 18:39 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.autoexpress.co.uk)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.autoexpress.co.uk)
| flowerlad wrote:
| Looks like only in UK. Not available in the US.
| wing-_-nuts wrote:
| Where'd you see that? I didn't see it mentioned in the article.
| slashdot2008 wrote:
| https://www.toyota-europe.com/service-and-
| accessories/servic...
|
| No mention of it on Toyota Canada or US websites
| jayflux wrote:
| So both Hyundai and Kia have offered 10-year warranty for a long
| time now, but what Toyota are doing here seems a little
| different, although I don't think it's better?
|
| They're basically giving you a year warranty every time you
| service your car with them at an official dealership, this
| basically keeps going until the car does 10 years or 100,000
| miles. So 10 years with 10 services.
|
| The Kia/Hyundai one is just a bog standard 10 (maybe 7 now)
| years, without needing to do an annual service. You can also pass
| it on when you sell it. Seems to me like theirs is still a better
| deal
| kipchak wrote:
| I think the 10/10k Kia/Hyundai powertrain warranty only
| transfers on CPOs, otherwise you get the 5-year/60k bumper to
| bumper only, which I think this program would be the equivalent
| of.
| gnabgib wrote:
| Agreed, and Mitsubishi. But perhaps this is a North America vs
| UK thing? Or perhaps Toyota as a sponsor of AutoExpress.
| Perhaps Hugo Griffiths at AutoExpress was just one of the ten
| thousand [0] on Tuesday.
|
| [0]: https://xkcd.com/1053/
| sjg007 wrote:
| In the USA, the Kia 10 year 100k limited powertrain warranty
| only applies to the first owner. Otherwise, it reverts at that
| point to the 5 year 60k one. You can usually buy a certified
| pre-owned though and that ups it back to 100k though.
| londons_explore wrote:
| Can't you just keep in touch with the first owner, and get
| them to take it in for any major warranty work?
| avgDev wrote:
| Why would the first owner want to waste his time when you
| need warranty work. After I sell my cars I don't want to be
| bothered.
| [deleted]
| ghaff wrote:
| It's really remarkable how vehicle reliability has improved. I
| can remember how hitting 100K miles was this rather remarkable
| thing that probably required a lot of tender loving care. Now
| it's mostly routine.
|
| Mind you, if you live in a place with a lot of snow, rust still
| probably starts to take a toll after about 15 years or so but
| that's still a big improvement over cars in those places maybe
| lasting 5 years and 50K miles.
| yread wrote:
| Indeed, there is this guy with 250k miles (in 3 years!) and not
| having to do a lot of maintenance on the car (he's escorting
| oversized loads)
|
| https://www.kianiroforum.com/threads/250k-miles-in-3-years.9...
| rodgerd wrote:
| > It's really remarkable how vehicle reliability has improved.
|
| When I was a child, run-in periods and 2 year warranties were
| the norm. It was a big deal when the Japanese manufacturers
| started doing standard 3 year warranties.
|
| It really is quite astonishing. And, as cars are loaded up with
| more and more fragile electronics it will be even more
| important, I think: when your side mirrors are cameras and
| screens, for examples, it's pretty important that you don't
| have a failure taking down your car's usability. Similarly,
| will it apply to a bug in the ABS firmware?
| tibbydudeza wrote:
| In the olden days you needed to do a engine overhaul at 100,000
| km because the rings would be shot and it would be smoking.
|
| Now I see 1990's Camry's and other cars happily @ 250,000 km
| without any major engine work.
| radicaldreamer wrote:
| In Southern California, it's common to see ancient cars
| rolling around without overhauls, probably due to the mild
| weather. A little less common in the Bay Area, but I still
| see 20+ year old beaters and 90s Camry's almost every day.
| ghaff wrote:
| Largely taking rust out of the equation makes a big
| difference. In New England, where I live, if you drive a
| car in the winter you're probably still looking at around
| 15 years max.
|
| I had a Honda del Sol from the last year they were made and
| I had garaged it in the winter for the last 10 years or so.
| It got to the point that the dealer's mechanics would
| gather around it when I brought it in because basically
| none of the cars (which weren't that common anyway) were
| still on the roads if they were driven in the winter.
| UI_at_80x24 wrote:
| Del Sol's are really sweet. It's a looker even from the
| factory.
| ghaff wrote:
| They really were. Honda wasn't really successful with
| them. I suppose they were too impractical for a Honda
| buyer and too Honda for a "sports car" buyer.
|
| I enjoyed it for a long time as a second vehicle. It was
| also the most reliable vehicle I had owned up to that
| point. But as I stopped commuting and ended up traveling
| a lot more I just wasn't using it enough to justify the
| insurance/registration/etc. cost especially as it hit
| 170K miles or so and I didn't really rust it for long
| trips at that point.
| rodgerd wrote:
| Had it been a front/rear layout like the S2000 I would
| have thought it be a slam-dunk; as is, the front/front
| combo knocked it out as an MX-5 competitor.
| ghaff wrote:
| I think you're making my point. You would have wanted a
| "real" sports car like the S2000--which also didn't do
| great. Whereas I wanted a fun but very practical two
| seater. (The del Sol also actually had a pretty good
| trunk.)
| ghaff wrote:
| I fortuitously got rid of a 20+ year old Honda with about
| 170K miles shortly before the pandemic hit. It was starting
| to show some age and needed some maintenance--which is why I
| decided to get rid of it (in addition to not driving it
| much)--but I'm pretty sure it never had significant engine
| work other than a pro-active timing belt replacement.
|
| (I hadn't driven it in the winter for years.)
| duffyjp wrote:
| The 1980s domestic cars I drove in my youth had odometers with
| only 5 digits. That tells you a lot.
| rblatz wrote:
| I don't know if I'd call it groundbreaking. Hyundai has been
| doing 10 year 100,000 mile warranties for basically their entire
| existence. Plus they don't require you to play the extend your
| warranty game by taking it to a dealership every year for
| maintenance.
| wanderr wrote:
| Sure, but in my experience they then find excuses to not fix
| problems. I had an Elantra (don't remember which year) in which
| the passenger air bag would turn off if my passenger shifted
| their weight just a little bit at any point during the trip,
| and would not turn back on until I turned the car off and on
| again. Dealer repeatedly insisted that it was working as
| intended. I always wondered if the airbag would even work in
| the case of an accident since my passenger's weight would
| surely shift.
| vturner wrote:
| Agreed, I'll have to check but I'm fairly confident my 2009 Kia
| Soul had 10 years and 100,000 miles
| programmertote wrote:
| Just out of curiosity, do you like your Kia? I see that cars
| from Korean manufacturers tend to be very competitive in
| terms of pricing and/or feature. But I am not sure if they
| are as reliable compared to, say, Japanese cars.
|
| An anecdote of why I'm asking -- I have Samsung dishwasher,
| for example, and it broke less than two years for very, very
| minimal use (I use it like once every two weeks). Based on
| that experience and having owned a Samsung galaxy phone that
| slowed down significantly after about 2-3 years (again, I
| installed almost no apps other than essential ones like Gmail
| and a couple of bank apps), I am not sure if Korean
| manufacturing has matured enough for me to consider buying a
| car made by one of the Korean manufacturers. This is, of
| course, not to diss on Korean manufacturers. Just wanted to
| explain why I am asking this question to begin with.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| > Samsung dishwasher
|
| Forgive me for getting up on my soapbox, but ... I
| _strongly_ recommend avoiding Samsung appliances like the
| plague. I have had nothing but bad luck with Samsung
| appliances that were not TVs or computer-related. My washer
| and dryer both failed the first time after less than a year
| of use. My fridge lasted about two years before the control
| panel started losing LEDs, and now I replace that control
| panel periodically -- the replacements start burning out
| LEDs again typically within a matter of months. LEDs!
| Burning out! WTF.
|
| To their credit, the mechanical bits of the fridge have
| been flawless so far (9 years later) but the control panel
| issue makes me hot under the collar. It's always a guess
| now as to whether the dispenser is about to give you cubed
| ice, crushed ice, or water. And judging by the volume of
| complaints online, I'm not the only one who has this exact
| experience with their refrigerators.
|
| I even bought my washer and dryer specifically on the
| recommendation of Consumer Reports. The first time I can
| remember where they led me astray.
| sys_64738 wrote:
| My Samsung TV died after 3 years. LCD panel died. Never
| again.
| leoedin wrote:
| If it's literally just burning out LEDs, you could
| probably do some fairly simple modifications to protect
| those LEDs. It's not exactly ideal, but a simple resistor
| in line with each LED would almost certainly solve the
| issue.
| UI_at_80x24 wrote:
| I am in the same boat. Looking at getting a new vehicle and
| Kia is near the top of the list because of warranty. I'd
| love to hear about personal experiences with the brand.
|
| I've owned GM, Honda, Ford, VW, and Chrysler. I've been
| very disappointed in all of them.
| avgDev wrote:
| My father has 2012 Sonata with a 2.4 Theta II engine,
| which has failed at 70k miles. Dealer replaced with no
| fuss and he had a nice loaner for 2 months. Initially, he
| had to pay for a loaner before dealer inspected it.
| Hyundai corporate was a pleasure to work with to get his
| money back.
|
| I bought a 2019 santa fe with the same engine. As these
| engines are now covered under lifetime warranty. I had 0
| problems with the car in the last 2 years, and honestly I
| am quite amazed with how much of car I got for 34k with
| 0% financing. I have the highest trim with AWD, which had
| original MSRP of $39k, so I did get a decent deal.
|
| IMO, hyundai/kia is a great buy, Toyota/Honda used to be
| a good deal some years ago but right now their cars are
| overpriced, toyota especially.
|
| Toyota does still retain value quite well. However,
| carmax offered me $32k for my car, so almost what I paid.
| This most likely due to the chip shortage so that value
| would probably be lower normally.
| sjg007 wrote:
| You have to check the model and engine specifics. Kia had
| a bad run of V4 turbos due to metal shavings in the
| manufacturing process. I think the electric Hyundai is on
| recall in South Korea because it overcharges and catches
| on fire. That is sort of a national scandal over there as
| far as I can tell which will probably lead to positive
| changes in their manufacturing processes. It also took a
| lot of hassle of those V4 Kia owners to get warranty
| coverage.
|
| That being said the V6 lambda engines are very nice and
| considered reliable. They started with the Genesis which
| was an important flagship vehicle. I have a V6 and have
| had no issues approaching 100k. But I am the type of
| person that wants to get 200k out of my vehicles, I have
| no idea if that will happen. I'd be upset if the car
| failed before 10 years as well.
|
| There are forums where you can get an idea, especially if
| you look at previous model years.
| frogblast wrote:
| I have a 2 year old Niro EV with 20K miles. It is a
| fantastic little car, no issues or defects with it all so
| far. The dealership experience sucked, but that's not the
| car's fault.
| vvillena wrote:
| I own a Kia (a 2nd gen Cee'd, the EU hatchback) and it's
| awesome. Zero issues.
| bigbillheck wrote:
| I used to own a 2006 Hyundai and it was very reliable. I
| only sold it because I sustained a foot injury and could no
| longer operate a manual transmission, even the extremely
| forgiving one in that car.
|
| I would prefer to never buy another car (and would
| absolutely not buy a Samsung car) but Hyundai's absolutely
| on my 'consider again' list.
| rgbrenner wrote:
| If you bought it new. Toyota is applying this to used vehicles
| too.
| jayflux wrote:
| As are Kia/Hyundai? You still get the warranty on a used car,
| it just keeps ticking over until 7-10 years. They're no
| different in this regard.
| rgbrenner wrote:
| No. Buy a used Hyundai and it immediately turns into a 5
| year/60k warranty when the title changes hands.
| [deleted]
| abfan1127 wrote:
| I owned a 07 Toyota Camry. In the 10 years I owned it, it
| required a sun visor replacement and a CV axle (and oil changes
| and tires). I also bought the extended warranty because I was
| young and dumb. That was the most expensive CV axle and sun visor
| I ever bought.
| legitster wrote:
| > Residual values are also likely to increase, and with PCP deals
| paying off depreciation, over time this could theoretically have
| a positive impact on new-car finance.
|
| I can't imagine warranties actually have that much of an effect
| when it comes to depreciation.
|
| However, given how much dealerships are pushing longer and longer
| loan terms as a way of achieving those magical monthly payment
| numbers, I assume this is a way to justify the practice even
| further.
| dotancohen wrote:
| Hyundai had a horrible reputation twenty years ago, well
| deserved. Resale values matched that reputation. They only got
| their reputation - and resale values - back up when they
| introduced their own 10 year warranty sometime (I think) around
| 2006 or so.
|
| Nowadays, Hyundai has about as average a reputation as they
| come. And not surprisingly, resale value to match.
| legitster wrote:
| Hyundai backed it up by actually genuinely improving build
| quality.
|
| In comparison, Chrysler has toyed with 10-year warranties by
| just treating it as a marketing expense. But in their efforts
| they never really improved in build quality and resale value
| showed it.
| datavirtue wrote:
| Groundbreaking? It is a 100k mile warrantee. Nevermind the
| 10-year marketing speak. Most decent vehicals come with 60k and
| can upgrade to 100k for $2k or less with me servicing gimmicks.
| Shadonototro wrote:
| Peugeot 12 year warranty
|
| https://www.peugeot.co.uk/owners/assistance-warranty/warrant...
|
| Why lie to people?
| acchow wrote:
| I read some details on that page. It says "Defective parts" are
| covered for 3 years, paintwork 2 years, perforation 12 years,
| electric/hybrid battery 8 years.
| mfer wrote:
| This is quite a method to drive people away from independent
| repair shops and to those controlled by the manufacturer.
|
| I wonder if they intentionally took inspiration from tech
| companies who skirt repairability
| BoorishBears wrote:
| All of this paranoia would be warranted if this wasn't
| something that only applied _after your main warranty is up_
|
| The main warranty is kept if you can show any maintenance
| records, even receipts for your own oil change materials is
| enough.
|
| And once a year makes it obvious they want it in a dealership
| to make sure they're not bankrolling engine replacements for
| people who'd otherwise let basic maintenance intervals go
| indefinitely...
| rachelbythebay wrote:
| And yet, if your car had a 3G telematics system involved (the SOS
| button, among other things), you're out of luck next year.
| They're doing NOTHING about it.
|
| They sold 2017 cars with a time bomb that goes off in 2022, and
| nothing to do about it. LTE capable devices were around for years
| at that point.
| OldHand2018 wrote:
| You may have just sold a lot of 2017 Toyotas with that piece of
| information!
| arberx wrote:
| Toyota is the last automaker (historically) to integrate "new"
| tech into their vehicles. If you look at their current offering
| of transmissions, engines, or batteries they use really old tech.
|
| However, this gives them a huge advantage in the reliability
| field as what is put into their cars is known/proven/shown to be
| extremely reliable.
| anm89 wrote:
| I would consider this a feature. Most new cars would be non
| starters for me based on being crammed with junk tech that
| presents long term maintenance issues.
| tibbydudeza wrote:
| While VW/Audi goes absolutely bezonkers and then your car
| spends extended periods in the workshop because the engine had
| a major design flaw and killed itself (1.4L TSI Twincharger
| which was discontinued quickly).
| ggamecrazy wrote:
| Inversely I'm kinda confused how Porsche (owned by VW) seems
| to get very good reliability scores[1]. Down to 9/26 from
| last years 4/26. Compared to VW's 24/26 that's quite a large
| delta.
|
| I always chalked up reliability as a function of new tech
| introduction + focus on reliability. I figured Porsche gets
| decent numbers because of how relatively low-tech they are
| and the ridiculous prices they charge for optioning-in that
| tech (basic things like ACC or memory seats).
|
| Is there something else organizationally, process or product
| wise that Porsche does differently than the VW group? I do
| know that they have a separate factory w/ seperate
| engineering departments (:cough VW engineers design
| Lamborghini's).
|
| 1: https://i.imgur.com/81MoQI2.png
| Glawen wrote:
| I know engineers who worked for Porsche, they are doing
| things independently from VW. The only thing they took from
| VW was the cayenne chassis and it's diesel engine. They
| were absolutely pissed by the diesel gate as they were
| unaware of it and quickly removed diesel from their lineup.
|
| They share some functions like brake SW or ACC, but they do
| their own engine and chassis.
|
| Otherwise they source their stuff alone, and due to the low
| sales number they struggle to find willing suppliers.
| benjohnson wrote:
| I kid you not - Porsche copied Toyota and the Toyota
| Production System for good effect.
|
| https://blog.grabcad.com/blog/2018/10/08/porsche-and-lean-
| ma...
| Glawen wrote:
| Everyone one copied the Toyota production system
| benjohnson wrote:
| It's fair to say GM did copy it well in the Saturn
| experiment, but failed to bring it fully to the whole
| company. VW can't help themselves from making complicated
| things. Honda is onboard, but Nissan still thinks in
| terms of supply side and will churn out garbage to meet
| next quarter targets.
|
| That being said, Tesla went back to early Ford for the
| full top-down flow system - and it's working for them. So
| while I love the TPS system and use it in my company, I'm
| willing to keep on learning.
| ggamecrazy wrote:
| Curious if this is just marketing from Porsche. Makes no
| sense why VW wouldn't adopt the system for similar
| effects. I'm not sure I buy the reasoning but I'll keep a
| open mind.
| radicaldreamer wrote:
| Porsche has a bifurcated product offering... their sports
| lineup is extremely reliable, but their SUVs and more
| mainstream products are certainly not (these also tend to
| have brand new equipment which doesn't filter to the 911
| for years)
| tibbydudeza wrote:
| Flat boxer engines in the sportscars are their own design
| - if it is V6 in the SUV's then it is Audi/VW.
| ethbr0 wrote:
| Porsche sports also spend a ton of time racing, at
| various levels, which I'd imagine back permeates into the
| corporate culture and increases reliability.
|
| There's a lot of weaknesses that show up a lot quicker
| when you're holding an engine at redline.
| ed_balls wrote:
| What the score? (paywall)
| ggamecrazy wrote:
| Sorry! Here it is: https://i.imgur.com/81MoQI2.png
|
| Down to 9/26 from last years 4/26. Compared to VW's 24/26
| that's quite a large delta.
|
| TBH some of ranking on the list makes anecdotal sense
| (Toyota is #2). Others do not (Mazda as #1?!).
|
| I'm questioning Consumer Reports methodology, how far
| back do they look? If it's only a sliding window of <3yrs
| I do not believe thats enough data.
| wampwampwhat wrote:
| I have no evidence to support this, but I'd theorize that
| some of it has to do with enthusiast owners (porsche)
| keeping up with recommended maintenance intervals, while
| budget owners (vw) and ignorant owners (audi) skip
| maintenance, causing nightmares down the line.
| TheCapn wrote:
| That's _exactly_ the sentiment being shared on the reddit
| thread I _just_ came here from:
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/nr4awu/which_expen
| siv...
|
| As a personal anecdote: my 2003 VW (1.8T GTI) had
| 330,000km when I sold it to a friend (it continues to run
| strong, but not sure the KMs). I did all the work myself
| and I did it on time. Biggest repair was AC Compressor,
| the rest was just routine maintenance and a couple $50
| sensors. If a CEL came on I addressed it as soon as
| possible. At the same time, I had a friend with a similar
| year Jetta TDI which lit on fire around the 290k mark.
| Every time I was in her car the CEL was on, and I
| remember driving it home on a road trip once where you'd
| hold the pedal to the floor the whole way just to keep it
| at the highway speed limit.
| rodgerd wrote:
| > Inversely I'm kinda confused how Porsche (owned by VW)
| seems to get very good reliability scores[1]. Down to 9/26
| from last years 4/26. Compared to VW's 24/26 that's quite a
| large delta.
|
| Reliability was always a selling point for Porsches
| relative to their competitor. You could buy a 308 and be
| constantly fixing it, or a 911 and (so long as you didn't
| put it in a ditch) you'd have an everyday driver.
|
| The fact that it's dropping suggests that they're feeling
| the effects of VW's ownership, crapping their designs up.
| rodgerd wrote:
| > Toyota is the last automaker (historically) to integrate
| "new" tech into their vehicles.
|
| The Prius was ground-breaking work; had Chevron not killed NiMH
| batteries, they would have been shipping mainstream electric
| RAV4s in the 90s. Toyota are very happy to innovate where they
| think they can deliver to a high standard.
| skeletal88 wrote:
| The latest RAV4 model didn't have Android Auto/Apple whatever
| for a year after coming out. Now same with wireless version for
| that, all other car manufacturers have it on their cars, but
| not Toyota. It's not like a transmission or engine, it's
| software..
| gnicholas wrote:
| One really surprising thing: if you want the Camry hybrid with
| the best mileage, you have to get the low-end model (no rims,
| most options not available). It has a different type of battery
| than the higher trim levels, and it gets 6-7 more MPG. I was
| shocked that this was the case in 2020, and strangely it is
| still the case in 2021. None of the dealers I spoke with could
| explain why this happened, or why it persisted across model
| years.
|
| You'd think that people would be willing to pay more for better
| mileage (and no, it's not due to weight differences of the
| premium equipment). I know my relative who was looking at
| hybrid Camrys would have been happy to pay more to have both
| the best MPG and various other features. Instead, they got the
| cheap model and added the blind spot monitors and called it a
| day.
| BorgHunter wrote:
| This is a trick more than one automaker does in the interests
| of creating a "green" (or "eco") trim, and usually they do it
| by speccing tires that are all-in on prioritizing fuel
| efficiency, sometimes with a higher recommended tire pressure
| too. The tradeoff is that they sacrifice some traction, and
| either have to go with smaller wheels (big wheels = luxury =
| $$$, for some reason--Toyota does this with the Camry Hybrid,
| putting 16" steelies on the cheap LE trim but 18" or 19"
| alloys on the others) to keep the same ride quality, or just
| accept a stiffer ride.
|
| It's worth noting, though, that as fuel efficiency goes up
| each increment in mpg is less valuable, so 6-7 mpg on a car
| that already gets 50 mpg is not as useful as 6-7 mpg on a car
| that gets 20 mpg. This is because the thing you're trying to
| minimize (fuel burned) is in the denominator of the measure.
| Countries that measure fuel economy in L/100km don't have
| this problem. Engineering Explained does a good job of
| showing how the math works out:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLQmwOX6Xds
| gnicholas wrote:
| They do tire tricks, but here it was actually a different
| battery chemistry that made the biggest difference.
|
| I completely agree with your assessment of the MPG
| difference. I tried explaining this to my relative, to no
| avail. The number for one vehicle was under 50 MPG and the
| number for the other vehicle was over 50 MPG, so it was a
| mental sticking point that I could not overcome.
| dotancohen wrote:
| I don't think that this is true. The Prius was a ground-breaker
| in not only hybrid propulsion, but other tech aspects as well.
| And lets not forget the often-problematic but very advanced
| "robotic" transmission, which was really a microcontroller-and-
| servo-operated manual transmission that felt to the driver like
| an automatic.
| post_break wrote:
| Tundra used the same engine and trans for ages. Same with
| Tacoma. 4runner I believe still only has a 5 speed auto. They
| were one of the last big ones to offer android auto and
| carplay. They are extremely slow to changes.
| ghaff wrote:
| The 4Runner is a pretty old design at this point. I don't
| need its "real" 4WD features but I do like the sight lines
| and other more traditional SUV design. Not in a big hurry
| but would be interested to see what a real redesign looks
| like.
| rodgerd wrote:
| I would be surprised if the audience for those vehicles
| _want_ lots of modern updates, as well.
| ghaff wrote:
| Assistive driving and infotainment is still nice given
| how vehicles are used day-to-day.
| kipchak wrote:
| The Prius/THS/HSD was definitely groundbreaking, but it's
| also been mostly refined versus refined since it's 1997
| release, and is now stuck in everything from luxury sedans to
| SUVs and the LC500h. For comparison Honda has/is
| experimenting with i-DCD (pancake motor) i-MMD (paralell
| system) SH-AWD (Through the road hybrid). Arguably this
| experimenting has resulted in a simpler system for Honda
| versus the planetary gearset in the Toyota system.
|
| Not to say that Toyota hasn't also experimented with stranger
| drivetrains, but they generally seem to have branched out
| less than Honda as an example.
| californical wrote:
| Interesting that they also mention that you need to get your
| vehicle serviced at a Toyota dealership to extend your warranty
| up by a year each time (up to the 10yr).
|
| I didn't see it in the article, but I wonder if that includes
| getting all of the dealerships "suggested maintenance" if you
| want the warranty extension to apply. I've had lots of sketchy
| dealership overcharging experiences, and if you need 5 dealership
| service visits to get up to the full 10 years, I can see this
| "warranty" costing thousands of dollars in unnecessary/fake
| maintenance. I'm sure that there are good actors out there, at
| dealerships too, but it is easy to be abused.
|
| This seems like a tactic to bring in more money, not one that
| Toyota is just doing for the sake of standing behind their
| products. Most cars can last beyond 10yr / 100k miles, so I don't
| think this costs them much. But to get the dealerships to charge
| you $300 for a cabin air filter a few times will probably make
| them more than they lose.
| mtnGoat wrote:
| as an owner of multiple toyota's and a member of the related
| forums... i can say that toyota dealers' service departments
| can be hit or miss, but toyota does listen to customer
| complaints and takes them very seriously(personal experience).
| additionally toyota has a lot of dealerships, so if the one
| closest to you is acting poorly you can go to another. they are
| aware of this and it tends to keep them mostly honest. plus
| with a large and vocal community around almost every model they
| make, its pretty easy to avoid the bad dealers.
|
| my current 4runner warranty/service plan covers all scheduled
| maintenance, filters, lubricants, etc. for the first 100k
| miles. However, I do have to bring it in yearly, even if the
| next oil change isn't due based on milage alone.
|
| its certainly a money play, but also keeping their vehicles in
| good working order helps with a lot of metrics like resell
| value, longevity, etc that car buyers look at. i think toyota
| is the largest buyer of used toyotas.
| e40 wrote:
| Dealer service centers may be hit or miss, but I've had way
| more misses with non-dealer repair shops. A recent one I went
| to ended up being more than the quoted price from the dealer.
|
| Having said that, I recently took my Acura (Honda) to a local
| service station because the timing belt was quoted at near
| $2k and I got it done for ~$900 at a local service station.
| New water pump and another belt were included (as they would
| have been at the dealer).
|
| What really frustrated me was the messages I was getting from
| the dealer. When should the timing belt be replaced? First it
| was 90k miles, then it was 60k miles, and because I was below
| both it was after 7 years (it's been 10). The other thing,
| for my model, some sources said "if it breaks, your engine
| will be damaged" but the dealer wouldn't tell me either way.
| I even contact Acura USA and they wouldn't contradict the
| dealer. Whole thing left me wanting a Toyota/Lexis.
| radicaldreamer wrote:
| This ^^ I've found Toyota Marin to be fantastic for the Bay
| Area but when we were in Albuquerque for a while last year,
| the local dealership's service dept was much worse, doing
| only the basics and with a low attention to detail.
| failwhaleshark wrote:
| TBH, Albuquerque is a hole in the ground adjacent to
| Atlantic City, Detroit, and east LA. I think anywhere else
| would be better.
|
| _If you 're going to the dealer for anything other than
| warranty or free repairs, then you have too much money and
| need to be relieved of it._
|
| - My late grandfather who was a master mechanic retired
| from a dealership who once sold horses and buggies in the
| SF Bay Area.
| actualanswer wrote:
| I should check out the Marin shop. Toyota SF was really
| good service but their prices/charges are outrageous. I
| ended up going to ToyShop which isn't too far from the
| dealership and they are solid (they work primarily on
| Toyotas hence ToyShop)
| dharmab wrote:
| Changing oil annually is recommended for pretty much every
| ICE driven vehicle. Oil reacts with the metals in an engine
| and becomes acidic over time.
| meowster wrote:
| Toyota ignored me when a dealership did a 10k service that I
| did not agree to (there was only 2k miles on the car at the
| time). Thus when I went to to a dealerahip for my 10k service
| (with an actual 10k miles on the car), they wouldn't do the
| free 10k service that came with the purchase of the vehicle.
|
| Toyota has good vehicles as far as I can tell, but their
| ignoring of me has put me off of them.
|
| For my next vehicle, I chose a different brand, and the
| vehicle had some issues, but that manufacturer made things
| right with no hassle.
|
| I don't know which is better: a vehicle that will most likely
| be good with a company that doesn't care, or a vehicle that
| has some issues but with a company that does care and fixes
| it.
| failwhaleshark wrote:
| Uh, if a shop or a dealer does service you didn't agree to,
| you don't sign for or pay for it.
|
| https://blogs.findlaw.com/law_and_life/2016/02/5-times-
| you-c...
|
| https://mechanics.stackexchange.com/questions/21528/what-
| rep...
|
| If you have a specific problem that they refuse to fix,
| then there's Lemon law.
| meowster wrote:
| It wasn't worth escalating for me, and I have no idea if
| it fell through the cracks on Toyota's end, or they bet
| that either I didn't know the law or wasn't going to take
| action. (I appreciate you mentioning that in case anyone
| else reading this in the U.S. doesn't know that aspect of
| the law, but I was aware of it.)
| failwhaleshark wrote:
| Write a professional, respectful letter to corporate
| (office of the CEO) including as many details as you can.
| No, seriously. No one gets letters anymore. Someone will
| see it because snail mail is so rare.
| pc86 wrote:
| Your singular anecdote aside, "a company that doesn't care"
| is not a description that could be applied to Toyota in any
| aggregate. It's simply not true.
| sharkweek wrote:
| I'm pretty dealer agnostic, but Toyota has been cemented in
| my mind as the car brand I can trust the most. Have been in
| Toyotas my whole life (first car was an 89 Camry Wagon, rip),
| now I drive a 4Runner old enough to drink, and my partner is
| in a Highlander.
|
| No matter how many times we look elsewhere, we always end up
| back in Toyotas. Hoping their EV R&D shows promise soon.
| failwhaleshark wrote:
| Scotty [0] would tell you to buy his Toyota Celica or maybe
| a used Toyota Corolla, but "all the new ones today are
| plastic crap."
|
| 0. Scotty Kilmer - internet famous mechanic in Houston TX -
| https://www.youtube.com/user/scottykilmer
|
| Well, they did come up with the Prius, so I think they
| might have a shot at EVs.
| steve_adams_86 wrote:
| Likewise, Toyota has been a rock in my car experience.
|
| We got a 2017 highlander and apart from the god awful
| infotainment system it has been amazing. Sort of like
| computers these days, I find myself wondering when I'd need
| or even want to upgrade.
|
| It hasn't really needed service yet after 80,000km.
| Everything is running well. My mechanic says I must be
| taking excellent care of it, but I'm not doing anything I
| haven't before. This thing just seems to be better designed
| than any VW or Ford I've had.
|
| Our previous Toyota was OLD but similarly rock solid. I've
| come to like their cars a lot. A friend has a 4 runner as
| well that has been going strong for around 15 years.
|
| I think what's remarkable isn't necessarily having
| something incredible to say about their cars. It's more so
| that I just have nothing to complain about.
| datavirtue wrote:
| The reliability stems from not touching the power train
| design (for 20+ years). It is also the cause of the
| dreadful effeciency one experiences with a Toyota.
|
| I shopped Toyota for a trucks several times and was
| appalled by the MPG ratings. When a Tacoma is getting far
| worse MPG than a F-150 it's time for an update.
| lightsighter wrote:
| In my experience, the whole 10 year warranty seems a bit
| excessive for vehicles that are nigh close to
| indestructible [1,2,3]. My parents have had multiple
| Toyotas that made it to 300K-400K miles. My brother's
| Corolla was rear-ended by a semi doing 30mph and wasn't
| even close to being totaled. Eight years later and he's
| still driving it through swamps in south Florida. They
| are impeccable feats of engineering.
|
| [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnWKz7Cthkk [2]
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTPnIpjodA8 [3]
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFnVZXQD5_k
| sharkweek wrote:
| As a Toyota owner, one of my favorite Onion articles:
|
| _Toyota Recalls 1993 Camry Due To Fact That Owners
| Really Should Have Bought Something New By Now_
|
| https://www.theonion.com/toyota-recalls-1993-camry-due-
| to-fa...
| ska wrote:
| I seem to remember somewhere Toyota offering (shorter than 10
| yr) warrantees optionally priced with basic services included -
| e.g. pay $X, you are covered for 5 year with 7 standard
| services in that time. If $X is reasonable, that's not a bad
| way to manage it.
| mulmen wrote:
| I was in the waiting room of a Toyota dealer and heard a
| service writer tell a woman that she would have to pay for a
| new oil pan because the drain plug was stripped out and service
| related damage was not covered under warranty.
|
| She said the car was always serviced at that dealer and the
| service writer said there is no way to prove that.
| gambiting wrote:
| I mean.....surely she would have been given an invoice every
| time so she can prove the vehicle was serviced there?
| bitshiftfaced wrote:
| How would that prove no one else ever worked on it?
| BoorishBears wrote:
| The only reason a dealer would push back against the
| argument is if they felt they had a pushover
|
| I mean by that logic no work can ever be warrantied, who
| knows if someone went and opened up your oil drain plug
| if 10 miles out of the shop your car dies and it looks
| like someone forgot to fill it back up with oil?
|
| Literally the only benefit I can think of for dealer
| visits outside of exotics is that they're _usually_ high
| volume enough that in cases like this they can come up to
| bat for a regular. That 's it.
| avgDev wrote:
| Well in the case presented, since when she got to the
| dealership oil was still in the engine, there is no way
| the oil pan was stripped before the service, as oil would
| immediately leave the engine without the drain bolt.
|
| It doesn't really matter if someone else worked on it or
| not. It would be highly unlikely the engine would still
| be running without oil, and the dealer would immediately
| tell her she came with no oil in the engine, not that her
| oil pan is stripped.
| gambiting wrote:
| You're right, it doesn't prove no one else hasn't worked
| on it- however there is absolutely 0 chance the
| dealership would win this in court, and I speak from
| experience of having to gone to court for similar issues.
| If she testified in front of the court that she only had
| the car serviced there AND had the documents documenting
| those services, the onus would be on the dealership to
| prove they haven't done the damage. They could defend
| themselves maybe by saying they use a special wrench that
| is physically incapable of stripping the screw(and having
| an expert's testimony to prove that), or any other
| physical or electronic signs of someone else having
| worked on the car - but if they can't demonstrate that
| then there's no way they would win such a case. Zero.
| deeblering4 wrote:
| Ugh yeah after having a dealer try to diagnose my failed struts
| as "these old Toyotas just drive like that", bill me a $150
| diagnostic fee and then try to sell me a new car...
|
| An independent mechanic found and fixed the issue with no
| hassle.
|
| Never again will I waste my time with dealerships, or any
| mechanic with a diagnostic fee. Far too easy for them to say
| "sorry couldn't reproduce the problem, that'll be $150"
| alkonaut wrote:
| I only service my car at the brand dealership and I'm sure it's
| both overpriced and often unnecessary. It means several hundred
| dollars per year (25% sales tax etc). I wouldn't want to buy a
| new-ish car with third party service stamps though, so the
| expensive service does retain some value.
|
| So long as this doesn't make service even more expensive, at
| least I'd get something for it that I don't today. At the
| moment I tend to instead trade for a newer car once the 2-5
| year warranty runs out. This would be cheaper than that at
| least.
| iab wrote:
| Your post resonates with me so deeply. The Toyota dealership
| near me wanted close to 1k for a 90k service, and the add-ons
| and labor charges. Almost fainted.
| jnwatson wrote:
| That is entirely normal for a 90k service depending on what
| the service is.
|
| A Honda service can easily be double that due to replacing
| the timing belt.
| iab wrote:
| This was between 2x-3x the price of other Toyota
| dealerships, not in the area.
| gnicholas wrote:
| Yeah, my family member was told that she needed to bring her
| Camry in for a 5-month service at the dealer during the
| lockdowns, lest she void her warranty.
|
| Ultimately when she pressed them on it, they agreed that the
| warranty would only be voided as to issues that would have been
| caught during such service call, but which were not caught and
| then got worse.
| ilamont wrote:
| Dealers must love this. Also:
|
| _as long as they are under 10 years old and have covered fewer
| than 100,000 miles_
|
| In North America it's very common for cars to have this many
| miles long before the 10 year mark.
| ghaff wrote:
| It's a bit under the average (13,500) but not outrageously
| so.
| bydo wrote:
| This "Toyota Relax" warranty appears to only apply in the UK,
| where average mileage is significantly lower than in the US.
|
| Somewhere between ~8k and ~9k, according to a random BBC
| article I found:
|
| https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-28546589
| astura wrote:
| Probably for a large percentage of the population.
|
| FHA says the average is 14,300 miles a year, but 12,524 miles
| per year in our most populous state (California)
|
| I guess that means the average American will hit 100,000
| miles in 7 years.
|
| https://www.thezebra.com/resources/driving/average-miles-
| dri...
| giarc wrote:
| The trick to look out for is dealership recommended service vs
| manufacturers recommended service.
|
| I owned a Chevy Equinox and took it to a dealership for work
| around 80,000km (my numbers might be off, this was 5 or so
| years ago). They told me the transmission fluid had met it's
| suggested replacement. I wanted to keep warranty valid so I
| approved the work. Somehow I then found out that the
| manufacturers recommended interval was like 200,000km. I was
| only required to follow the manufacturers schedule not the made
| up dealers recommended schedule. If you ask, they give you some
| BS about the "local climate and amount of construction dust so
| we recommend different intervals etc etc". Either way, you
| aren't required to follow those schedules.
| twobitshifter wrote:
| I had the opposite experience, I bought my car 2nd-hand with
| low miles and I went to Volkswagen dealership for the
| transmission service on the Dual Clutch transmission as shown
| in the manual. I said I'm here for the 40,000 mile service -
| ignorantly thinking that they follow their own manufacturers
| recommended maintenance. Changing the fluid in the
| transmission is complicated on cars with a dual clutch
| transmission and must be carefully done. If the transmission
| is damaged it's very expensive to replace. They charged me
| almost $2000 and then I looked at the receipt and they didn't
| change the fluid at all - in fact they did almost nothing
| besides jiggle the wheels and change the oil as far as I
| could tell! I was angry about this so they sent a tech out
| who tried to tell me that since it's an "automatic
| transmission" it should be good for 80,000, Volkswagen just
| tells you to change it early.
|
| I never returned to that dealership or any other with the car
| because it was clear that although they sell the cars they
| know almost nothing about them.
| MrRiddle wrote:
| Fluid change in DSG? There's only oil and that's supposed
| to be changed at 40k, I paid it around 150 EUR.
|
| But yeah, your story is unfortunately a usual ordeal at
| dealerships.
| ok123456 wrote:
| Those transmissions are garbage. They shed a lot of clutch
| material. It will fail before it gets to 200,000km. By the
| time it gets up there, if it's still working, the dirty fluid
| is the only thing giving it enough friction to shift. If you
| tried changing it at that point, it would just start
| slipping. A drain and fill ever 50k is the thing to do with
| those.
| calvinmorrison wrote:
| Yeah, then again dealers have service bullitens regularly and
| lots of experience with common failures across a model. Hard
| to know hence why some dealers can rip people off. Happens in
| any scenario where trust is high and information low
| vturner wrote:
| Grondbreaking? Unless this extends to more components, Kia has
| had this since at least 2009.
| sys_64738 wrote:
| I would never go to the dealership service dept due to inflated
| priced and upselling. Stick to a trusted independent garage.
| partiallypro wrote:
| Toyotas hardly need a warranty to begin with, I assume there is
| some catch. Such as you need dealership maintenance or something
| in order to extend. I have a 2005 Tacoma with 350,000 using the
| same drive train. It's incredible. It's hard not to buy another
| one (another Tacoma) because this one has lasted so long. Only
| reason I haven't is because the gas mileage is abysmal, even V8
| Fords have better than the 4 cylinder Tacoma, but they don't last
| near as long...so I guess there is a trade off.
| mrfusion wrote:
| So this is not for the US? Sounds like a cool program.
| tibbydudeza wrote:
| Also with WFH the maintenance cycle is really messed up now since
| we use our cars so little - ours is set @ 15,000 km per service
| interval and we normally did it within one year.
| sergers wrote:
| i signed a 39 month lease, at 18k KM allowance per year. in
| 2019
|
| pre-pandemic we were doing a little less than that.
|
| with WFH, we have only put on 4k in the last 14 months...
|
| kicking myself for not doing a lower KM lease.
| ghaff wrote:
| I finally took my vehicle in today now that a lot of
| restrictions have lifted and vaccinations are at good levels.
| My maintenance light was on for months and I was about 5 months
| over for my annual safety inspection. (I was also barely
| driving the car.)
| mathattack wrote:
| Will this mean we don't get all the spam calls to renew our
| warranties? If so, it might just be worth it.
|
| I've had some terrible experiences with Toyota dealerships in the
| past. Beyond scummy and scammy.
| adav wrote:
| Really long warranties on econoboxes is nothing new, but a 10
| year manufacturer warranty on a sporty car like a GR Yaris, Supra
| or GT86 sounds pretty unprecedented!
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