[HN Gopher] Chris Hedges: "Dying for an iPhone"
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       Chris Hedges: "Dying for an iPhone"
        
       Author : pauljonas
       Score  : 45 points
       Date   : 2021-06-02 19:59 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (scheerpost.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (scheerpost.com)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | Leary wrote:
       | I-phone manufacturing is already gradually shifting from China to
       | South and Southeast Asian countries as wages rise in China.
       | Gradually, it will shift to even poorer countries. Improving
       | conditions in these factories should be a key priority. However,
       | it's not as if these jobs haven't had their positive effects as
       | well.
        
         | coldtea wrote:
         | > _Improving conditions in these factories should be a key
         | priority._
         | 
         | Huh? Why would that be? Getting those factories operational and
         | churning out units faster will be the key priority.
         | 
         | Conditions thus will be the same, or worse, than China,
         | especially in even poorer countries.
        
       | Dah00n wrote:
       | This is a good example of the slaves we all hold - in the US and
       | outside. No-one owns a smartphone, a PC, or pretty much any
       | modern item without having slaves.
        
       | enlightened1 wrote:
       | More alarmism, I see. Anyone who has read Steven Pinker knows
       | that this all is patently false. Things are better now than they
       | have ever been before. There are certainly some jobs that are
       | less paying, but every individual has the possibility to bring
       | themselves up as it were, and learn basic HTML/JS/CSS and help
       | the world economy go ever forward. I always like to joke with my
       | colleagues and say it less a matter of pulling oneself up by the
       | bootstraps, and more by the Bootstrap (css)!
       | 
       | And even if it were a problem, the solution is so... lame. I
       | particularly like pg's essays on the proposed solution. A wealth
       | tax is simply just not workable. In fact, it violates my rights
       | as an individual. I've worked hard, stepping over the drugged out
       | homeless people in the tenderloin on the way to my startup's
       | office. I've put in the work, getting the connections so that the
       | VC's would fund my expensive expresso machine requirement at any
       | office _I_ work at.
       | 
       | I also find it troublesome that the article does not talk about
       | the environment or diversity, which are clearly more serious
       | issues. We need more BIPOC at the top, sharing some of the
       | spoils, and don't need to necessarily spread the gains across
       | _classes_. And all of this doesn't matter until we tackle more
       | important problems like global warming! If anything, the working
       | class contribute to the problem, I hardly see any of them driving
       | Teslas...
        
         | manicdee wrote:
         | How does a child living in poverty in a backwater country under
         | a repressive dictatorship get access to a computer and an
         | internet connection and a bank account so that they can
         | bootstrap themselves into a remote working web development gig?
        
           | enlightened1 wrote:
           | Exactly! That is why I always buy things that are organic and
           | fair trade. It costs a bit more, but it is worth the price.
           | I'm not exactly sure how that translates into what you are
           | asking though, but rest assured, I believe it does.
        
         | andrekandre wrote:
         | Anyone who has read Steven Pinker knows that this all is
         | patently false.
         | 
         | ive heard it said that if you take china out, steven pinkers
         | numbers dont hold up well... anyone have more info/pointers
         | about that?
        
         | yellowapple wrote:
         | I can't tell if your downvotes are due to people being
         | oblivious to dripping sarcasm or due to the HN crowd
         | recognizing this as sarcastic and feeling personally attacked.
        
         | bryanlarsen wrote:
         | Your 6 figure salary is about 1% due to your hard work and
         | about 99% due to standing on the shoulders of giants: those who
         | fought and died for your freedoms, those who educated your
         | workers, those who ensured your customers had money to buy your
         | stuff, those who ensure your belongs aren't stolen, those who
         | built the open source software your work is based on, those who
         | designed the free standards your software is based on, those
         | who built the network you distribute on, those who ensure you
         | didn't die in childhood, scientists from Aristotle to Newton to
         | Babbage to Einstein and on up who were the giants you're
         | standing on.
         | 
         | You're lucky your income tax rate is only ~50%. It morally
         | could be much higher.
        
         | coldtea wrote:
         | > _More alarmism, I see. Anyone who has read Steven Pinker
         | knows that this all is patently false._
         | 
         | Anyone who has reas Steven Pinker knows he is a well-fed, of
         | the top 1% richer, cheerleading for the modern era and global
         | capitalism by cherry-picking facts and figures made up to make
         | governments look good, from the comfort of his posh office.
        
       | Joeri wrote:
       | There are two narratives. One is the 99% narrative, how the rich
       | have captured not just the wealth but also the government and
       | have turned most of society into what amounts to feudal serfs.
       | 
       | The other narrative is the chicago school triumph narrative, how
       | there has never been a time with more opportunity and more wealth
       | thanks to the economic policies of the past half century, and all
       | you need to take part in that is to put in a little effort.
       | 
       | What I would like is for people to stop telling stories and start
       | digging into facts. Strongman the narrative of the other team,
       | find the best set of facts to support them, contrast with your
       | own facts. Someone who does that, i'm interest to read their
       | take. But this article is all narrative and zero insight. Not
       | impressed.
        
         | adamcstephens wrote:
         | Both these groups have "facts" that they can point to support
         | their claims. Facts aren't some divine truth. They can and are
         | used to support the narratives people tell in their stories.
         | Sometimes the same facts are used to support different sides.
         | 
         | And yes, we tell stories because that's a very basic way we
         | communicate with each other. Just spouting facts at people in a
         | narrative (how is this different than a story?) isn't really
         | received by most people.
         | 
         | edit: I see you're saying that facts should just tromp
         | "narratives", but I stand by the rest of what I said.
        
         | lordnacho wrote:
         | Chicago strongman would be that by a load of measures, we're
         | all better off in an absolute sense. Fewer kids dying, easier
         | to treat disease, everyone is consuming more stuff. All due to
         | various liberalizations ranging from tax cuts to less
         | regulation (City / Big Bang) and generally less of the state.
         | There's lots of opportunity to do stuff, generated by this
         | fantastic economy. I think I lean more to the right than most
         | people, and that's more or less the summary on that side.
         | 
         | My take is that absolute wealth hardly matters to most people.
         | It's always been a question why Bob gets more than Alice,
         | regardless of whether they lived in the stone age or the
         | information age. People care about relative status a heck of a
         | lot, and they will keep doing so. If absolute wealth were all
         | that mattered, nobody would complain anymore because we all
         | have much more than people of not long ago, and insanely much
         | more than stone age people.
         | 
         | Look at various struggles between people of different status
         | throughout history. The Barons and the Magna Carta (John), the
         | French Revolution, the general strikes of the 20th century. All
         | of them are somehow about what relative status people have, yet
         | it makes no sense from an absolute point of view. The 20th
         | century miners for instance had free healthcare and running
         | water toilets, which the Barons and French aristocrats didn't
         | have. Only the lens of relative disparity, aka common sense,
         | explains it.
         | 
         | So if I now look at some factory worker in China, who is doing
         | better than all her ancestors, do I take the view that she's
         | simply spoiled and complaining too much? Not really.
         | 
         | The 99% strongman is, well, look at it: you can't even run for
         | office in America without being really, really rich. Lobbying
         | is a legit career. The wealthy are approaching gilded ages
         | levels of relative wealth, and that buys power. There's no
         | formal slavery, but loads of people are on a precarious
         | treadmill, forcing them into negotiations that are only
         | slightly better than slavery. You don't get whipped, and you're
         | allowed to vote, but only for whichever rich guys are on the
         | ballot. You'll never really be allowed to work your way up,
         | because you need capital to grow capital, and you're not gonna
         | get any.
         | 
         | What's wrong with this argument? Well there is a bit of choice
         | at various levels in the tree. If you're on minimum wage,
         | there's more than one thing you can do for that wage. A bit
         | higher up the chain, a software dev has a bit of choice over
         | who employs him, and can often take a break from the career.
         | With a little luck you might also be able to get funded for
         | your own shot at being wealthy.
        
       | EvilEy3 wrote:
       | Commie central strikes again.
        
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       (page generated 2021-06-02 23:02 UTC)