[HN Gopher] Almost half of local Twitter trending topics in Turk...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Almost half of local Twitter trending topics in Turkey are fake -
       study
        
       Author : FridayoLeary
       Score  : 417 points
       Date   : 2021-06-02 13:05 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (actu.epfl.ch)
 (TXT) w3m dump (actu.epfl.ch)
        
       | iratic0 wrote:
       | I imagine these are being manipulated significantly in many
       | places.
        
       | RGamma wrote:
       | Popular and trending have long lost their meaning in my mind.
       | 
       | I automatically assume there's some commercial/political/whatever
       | actor manufacturing these things.
       | 
       | Organic popularity is basically dead at this point.
        
       | kordlessagain wrote:
       | Twitter is a cesspool. Thanks Jack.
        
       | m00dy wrote:
       | looks like Twitter's tech is not enough to catch these bots
        
       | ohmanjjj wrote:
       | Twitter manipulates the trending topics themselves to fit
       | whatever agenda is needed
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | jb775 wrote:
       | Twitter allows bot networks like these to operate as long as
       | they're pushing Leftist propaganda (i.e. Twitter's political
       | stance), or suppressing non-Leftist discussion. That's why they
       | didn't respond to the researchers...because they selectively look
       | the other way.
       | 
       | It's amazing how fast millions of "legitimate" Twitter accounts
       | of Korean teenager K-Pop fanatics all of a sudden become
       | violently interested in suppressing non-Leftist-narrative
       | hashtags.
       | 
       | Edit: Here's a url for a recent blatant use of a bot network
       | (with Twitter obviously looking the other way). The same or
       | similar networks were used throughout the election cycle,
       | especially when there was any mention of election fraud.
       | 
       | https://www.insider.com/aoc-lied-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-k-...
        
         | souldeux wrote:
         | [citation needed]
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | blincoln wrote:
         | The research paper this article is based on covers a pretty
         | broad spectrum of political (pro- and anti-Erdogan), and non-
         | political topics in Turkey.
         | 
         | I always assume that probably 95% or more of accounts on
         | Twitter are fake, based on my experience. Back in 2017 or so,
         | when QAnon was being heavily pushed by botnets, there was what
         | looked (to me) like a leftist analogue of it[1] being pushed in
         | the same manner, and it just didn't catch on the way QAnon did.
         | I figured it was probably being promoted by the same people, to
         | inflame tensions in the US. Basically, I think if you go
         | looking for evidence that Twitter is helping people you
         | disagree with, you'll find it, regardless of your political
         | beliefs.
         | 
         | [1] No, not BLM/Antifa. It was an actual conspiracy theory with
         | a token figurehead like "Q". I don't want to include too many
         | details here because it seems like it died off, and I'd rather
         | not help revive it.
        
           | AnimalMuppet wrote:
           | My "meta conspiracy theory" is that every conspiracy theory
           | is generated by a Russian disinformation campaign.
           | 
           | Actually, replace "Russian" with "Russian, Chinese, Iranian,
           | domestic political (both sides), or corporate submarine", and
           | it's probably not that far from the truth...
        
         | smoldesu wrote:
         | Why is it surprising that socially influenced teens are
         | speaking out in support of liberal beliefs? Are you surprised
         | when the sun rises every morning? This has happened for
         | decades, and it's intrinsically tied to the cycle of how
         | politics operate. I have a much easier time believing that a
         | bunch of k-pop fanatics were peer-pressured into virtue
         | signalling the Democratic party than believing that
         | NoNameBunchOfNumbers (who made their account yesterday)
         | supports the RNC.
        
         | ibrahimsow1 wrote:
         | Bot networks aren't really needed, they can just be real
         | people. Young people disproportionately use social media, young
         | women especially so. The intersection of those two groups
         | happen to be left leaning [0], and more socially connected
         | which I'm using as a proxy for political awareness [1]. Plus in
         | my general experience people are just really vocal about
         | identity politics. It wouldn't be an unreasonable assumption
         | that the primary demographic of a website are not a fan of
         | content that challenges their world-views.
         | 
         | [0]:
         | https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/03/us/elections/...
         | [1]: https://psyarxiv.com/72w58/download/?format=pdf#:~:text=Th
         | e%...).
        
       | dominotw wrote:
       | I never went back to twitter after their team put #uncletim on
       | trending topic.
       | 
       | Added twitter to my /etc/hosts block. Not missing anything.
        
       | ziml77 wrote:
       | I suggest to anyone using twitter to either add rules to your ad
       | blocker to remove the trends section or use an extension like
       | Tweak New Twitter to remove it. It makes Twitter so much nicer to
       | visit when you don't have those stupid trends shoved in your face
       | making it seem like you should constantly be anxious or depressed
       | about the state of the world.
        
         | tvanantwerp wrote:
         | If you're using uBlock Origin, here are some of the filters
         | that the author, gorhill, uses to strip out things like
         | Trending Now.
         | 
         | https://twitter.com/gorhill/status/1375805467893624840
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | croon wrote:
           | Is there any github repo or article or something with a
           | collection of every ip list, filter snippet, configurations
           | one could/should want in their browser extensions (UBO,
           | umatrix, etc)? I want pretty stringent defaults, but I
           | understand why site altering defaults aren't there in the
           | base extension, but I'm also not motivated to google for
           | every permutation of things one could want.
        
           | justinzollars wrote:
           | Is there a way to do this in Safari? I notice that this
           | extension isn't available :/
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | I use adguard for Safari but I'm not sure if the filters
             | would be identical. It does have a "filter this element"
             | option.
        
           | Flott wrote:
           | Thank you! I use an extension on Firefox for Windows but I
           | had no solution for Android. I'll try this!
        
         | gentleman11 wrote:
         | If you want to stop using Facebook, go through your friends
         | list and unfollow everyone. You can still see what they are up
         | to by visiting their pages and can still message them but it
         | breaks the addiction. You will also realize, as you visit
         | peoples pages, that almost nobody you know posts about
         | themselves, it's all news and memes and outrage
        
           | RandallBrown wrote:
           | I just unfollow the people that only post memes and outrage.
           | 
           | My Facebook feed is mostly photos of my friends lives and I
           | actually do enjoy seeing what they're up to. There's still
           | memes and news articles but most of the really toxic stuff is
           | gone.
        
         | DixieDev wrote:
         | Tweak New Twitter has made the Twitter experience so much nicer
         | for me. I basically only follow 2 categories of people: People
         | I know and artists. With retweets in a separate tab, I only see
         | the content I signed up for when I clicked the follow button.
         | It's fantastic.
        
         | sudasana wrote:
         | Tweetdeck also does not display trends unless you add a column
         | for them.
        
         | vmception wrote:
         | > either add rules to your ad blocker to remove the trends
         | section
         | 
         | how?
        
         | GordonS wrote:
         | Huh, I use the official Twitter app on Android, and I don't
         | even notice the "trends" - only time I even see the option to
         | see them is if I use the search function.
        
         | tommoor wrote:
         | Minimal Twitter is a nice chrome extension:
         | https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/minimal-twitter/po...
        
         | Tenoke wrote:
         | Maybe it's because I'm in Germany but I use Twitter daily and
         | have almost never more than glanced at the trends. It's as easy
         | to ignore as seeing a front page of a newspaper on the street
         | or a sponsored result in Google.
        
         | schleiss wrote:
         | Yes, I can only agree. I even wrote a blog post about it in
         | 2018 [1] because the design was so annoying.
         | 
         | [1] https://schleiss.io/fixing-twitter-design-with-extension
        
         | riffraff wrote:
         | Ive started using the "Calm Twitter" extension which hides both
         | trends and social signals (number of likes and retweets, tho
         | they're still visible on hover).
         | 
         | Together with the time-based ordering, it has made twitter a
         | much quieter experience.
        
         | fredzel wrote:
         | Also,in another area, 'People also ask/search for' section of
         | Google. Worst offender when it comes to spoilers
         | (movies/shows/books...). You just want to search something
         | about one character and there it is, recommended search "who
         | killed x", "why did x die" etc.
         | 
         | Twitter trends can also be spoilerish in that way, although
         | it's usually more ambigous.
        
         | LegitShady wrote:
         | You'll be even better off if you just stop using twitter.
         | Twitter is highly manipulated by twitter, than by bots, then by
         | brigading, etc etc.
         | 
         | Ultimately it's a weird armpit of the internet elevated by the
         | attention of journalists to something that simply does not
         | deserve attention, and on whom attention actively damages your
         | perception of reality.
        
         | asicsp wrote:
         | I use 200% zoom so that only tweets and navigation icons are
         | visible.
        
         | brightball wrote:
         | In the same vein, I actively unfollow or hide all forms of news
         | on Facebook. Including friends who just can't help but post
         | political commentary all the time.
         | 
         | Now my feed is funny, sports, friends and family.
        
           | anm89 wrote:
           | Did this too. Now my whole feed is mushroom foraging groups
           | and I sort of like Facebook again.
        
         | RpFLCL wrote:
         | Two years ago I changed my trends location to a county whose
         | language I can't read (Japan). The trends box still exists, but
         | I can't read it and can't care about any so-called trends.
        
           | j6 wrote:
           | I personally have the trends country set to one that doesn't
           | usually have a very big (or any) presence on Twitter (e.g.
           | British Indian Ocean Territory, Falkland Islands, ...). This
           | makes the "Trends for you" part of the page empty.
        
             | Graffur wrote:
             | brilliant - thanks
        
             | Jiocus wrote:
             | Thanks for this hack. I found it hilarious (and useful).
        
             | TchoBeer wrote:
             | I wonder if it'll start filling up if enough users do this
        
               | jaywalk wrote:
               | No, that's not how it works. The only way it would start
               | getting content is if users actually started tweeting
               | from those remote locations, which seems unlikely.
        
               | MauranKilom wrote:
               | ...or someone figures out that appearing to tweet from
               | that location suddenly puts their tweets in front of a
               | lot of eyeballs.
        
               | notsureaboutpg wrote:
               | It's extremely easy to spoof your location online
        
             | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
             | Great tip! Surprisingly awkward to do, but well worth it.
        
             | pradn wrote:
             | That's amazing. I picked the country Chad and I see no
             | trends at all! With word and account blocking, I get good
             | control over what I see, even in the official Twitter app.
             | (A good number of the control methods, like disabling like
             | numbers, are only available via browser extension.)
        
           | yread wrote:
           | Some years ago I did something similar with Facebook -
           | switched my location to North Korea and voila all
           | advertisements disappeared. Later, it stopped working and
           | even later Airbnb (where I foolishly linked the account)
           | asked me to accept new terms of use but I couldn't because
           | they blocked anyone from North Korea from using Airbnb.
        
       | hirundo wrote:
       | I quit Twitter in disgust last year, frequently triggered by the
       | trending topics. Now when I sometimes follow a Twitter link, I
       | avert my eyes from trending topic, like I also often do with
       | commercials and ads. I know that such manipulation works on me to
       | some extent, so I make some effort not to consume it.
       | 
       | I hope some day sophisticated AI "ad blockers" can be easily
       | extended to such non-advertising manipulative content. But I
       | suspect that their adversary AIs will keep up with that arms
       | race.
        
         | detaro wrote:
         | You can change the location you see trending topics for. Set it
         | to some tiny country and there' wont be anything trending. (or
         | use an adblocker to remove the trending box, but the other
         | thing syncs with the account to everywhere)
        
           | amatecha wrote:
           | Yeah, I used to set mine to Japan, so I literally can't even
           | read the trending topics. Works pretty well, except a bunch
           | of English-text trends still get in there. :\
        
       | williesleg wrote:
       | All everywhere not just turkey.
        
       | mattgreenrocks wrote:
       | "Relevance" is not the signal that people think it is. It can be
       | trusted when it is coming from people we've already vetted, but
       | at a mass scale, it is easily weaponized to manufacture and
       | manipulate public opinion. An algorithm that decides relevance
       | can be gamed, as we see here.
       | 
       | These features won't go away, however. Twitter and the media at
       | large rely on the veneer of relevance to ensure they retain an
       | audience.
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | Title should mention Turkey
        
       | ______- wrote:
       | Twitter cracked down on bots recently[0].
       | 
       | Last time I checked you need to verify your account with a phone
       | number. However this is a trivial hurdle to overcome since
       | dedicated bot farmers would use Twilio or some similar service to
       | register Twitter accounts _en-masse_
       | 
       | [0] https://www.dawn.com/news/1391001/twitter-sets-crackdown-
       | on-...
       | 
       | [0] https://www.cultofmac.com/530455/twitter-crackdown-on-bots/
        
         | elliekelly wrote:
         | Twitter keeps saying they've "cracked down" on bots and yet the
         | bots are _still_ just as much of a problem as they've ever
         | been. I'd been on twitter for over decade -- back when you
         | tweeted via SMS -- and deleted my account in the run up to the
         | US election because it was impossible to discern real content
         | from the content designed to churn the outrage machine. Whoever
         | uses the term "crack down" to describe Twitter's periodic
         | deletion of only the most egregious bot accounts deserves an
         | auto-reply meme bot featuring Inigo Montoya.
        
         | lotsofpulp wrote:
         | How many phone numbers are there? How many phone numbers does
         | twilio have access to? Seems like it would at least put a cap
         | on the number of problematic accounts.
        
           | ______- wrote:
           | That becomes problematic, since often numbers are 'recycled'
           | by the likes of Twilio, and the number has some _history_ or
           | previous use, probably used before to register social media
           | accounts. The trick is to find a brand new fresh number that
           | hasn 't been used ;)
        
       | thrower123 wrote:
       | An easy way to never see Twitter trends is to open up the
       | settings and change it from showing personalized or current
       | location trends, to showing trends for a country that does not
       | have many Twitter users.
       | 
       | This can be interesting in it's own sake. Learn what's going on
       | in Bhutan or Burkina Faso.
        
       | mrdoornbos wrote:
       | I try to pretend to be shocked, but it just comes out as "well
       | duh"
        
       | sumo89 wrote:
       | It alway has been manipulated
       | https://www.buzzfeed.com/lukebailey/the-social-chain
        
       | strangattractor wrote:
       | Only half. They gotta be miscounting. %75 minimum.
        
       | strict9 wrote:
       | Since the information-dense redesign I've been using the minimal
       | twitter plugin (discovered on HN) which removes fluff like
       | trending topics.
       | 
       | Experience has been great and highly recommend:
       | 
       | - https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/min-twitter/
       | 
       | - https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/minimal-twitter/po...
        
         | mdm_ wrote:
         | Can anyone recommend an Android/iOS app that does the same
         | thing?
        
           | pcardoso wrote:
           | I use Tweetbot on iOS.
        
       | Ensorceled wrote:
       | If I check twitter in the morning, almost any "trending in
       | Canada" topic that is political in nature is full of
       | "firstnamebunchofnumbers" type accounts pushing the trend. They
       | are all very supportive of our right leaning political party...
        
         | throwaway894345 wrote:
         | Strange. I always get all far left-wing stuff, and it's not
         | even high-quality left-wing argumentation but just the absolute
         | sewer of left-wing rhetoric. I'm very curious whether Twitter's
         | algorithm is designed (or exploited) to show us things that it
         | thinks we'll agree with (I'm a moderate liberal, so maybe it
         | thinks I'm a partisan and I'll just love extreme left-wing
         | stuff?) or stuff it thinks we'll be angry about? Or maybe it
         | shows everyone the same far-left drivel?
        
           | InitialLastName wrote:
           | >I'm very curious whether Twitter's algorithm is designed (or
           | exploited) to show us things that it thinks we'll agree with
           | (I'm a moderate liberal, so maybe it thinks I'm a partisan
           | and I'll just love extreme left-wing stuff?) or stuff it
           | thinks we'll be angry about? Or maybe it shows everyone the
           | same far-left drivel?
           | 
           | My theory: There is no coherent theory of operations like
           | "Show the leftists to the leftists"; rather, it's doing
           | constant A/B-test-style optimization between drivel varieties
           | to see which one best inspires the cohort matching your
           | doomscrolling patterns to continue to scroll.
        
             | Fellshard wrote:
             | It's anecdotal, but my trending pane is usually filled with
             | mostly hard left trends, the occasional right wing trend,
             | with the left trends being frequently selected to be
             | sloppily editorialized by Twitter staff. I'm certainly on
             | the right wing. More likely, it'll show you what's likely
             | to make you engage, and there's no quicker way than to show
             | you things which make you angry.
        
           | Ensorceled wrote:
           | Hmmm, I'm also a moderate liberal and my main Twitter stream
           | reflects that, it's the trending topics that skew right for
           | me.
           | 
           | If you can call it "right", it's mostly invective, calls for
           | resignation and skewed/unfounded criticisms of our Prime
           | Minister.
           | 
           | I mean, there is plenty of real stuff to criticize but the
           | criticisms are mostly unfounded instead.
        
             | mandmandam wrote:
             | Are "moderate liberals" the ones who like Biden, don't mind
             | the ongoing multiple wars in the ME, the incessant renewal
             | of the Patriot Act, the treatment of Assange, etc?
             | 
             | Not trynna antagonise, I'm genuiuely curious if all that
             | bollocks is hiding behind the oh-so benign sounding
             | "moderate liberal" label.
        
               | throwaway894345 wrote:
               | Those are establishment politics, not moderate
               | liberalism. But yeah, moderate liberal politicians (like
               | politicians of all ideological brands) often act out of
               | line with their professed ideology in favor of
               | establishment interests.
               | 
               | I'm a moderate liberal only in the sense that my politics
               | tend to be moderately liberal, but "moderate liberals"
               | aren't my tribe (indeed, I don't have a political tribe--
               | I'm very independent in that regard). This is all to say
               | that I don't take offense to criticism of other moderate
               | liberals because how a few moderate liberals behave
               | doesn't define me.
        
               | Ensorceled wrote:
               | I'm Canadian, so none of that crap applies to me ...
               | 
               | The US democratic party platform is pretty "right" by
               | Canadian standards.
        
             | jayspell wrote:
             | The Netflix documentary, The Social Dilemma exposed the
             | algorithms are designed to create "engagement" or clicks,
             | that may look different for different people. If you happen
             | to begin clicking links that make you angry you will have a
             | feed that skews towards the kinds of posts that infuriate
             | you (this is typical - rage really sucks most of us in). If
             | you select links with puppies all day long, that is what
             | you are going to get, puppies. I have personally seen this
             | in my YouTube feed. If I select two or three videos on a
             | particular topic all of the sudden my feed is filled with
             | those videos. Personally it is really aggravating. I may
             | want to watch one or two videos about JRR Tolkien, but I
             | don't want to see a bunch of fan theory LOTR videos.
        
             | Chris2048 wrote:
             | > skewed/unfounded criticisms of our Prime Minister
             | 
             | reverse phycology? If all criticism you see is unfounded,
             | you might erroneously start to believe all critics are
             | biased - a kind of false-flag strategy.
        
         | kevinmchugh wrote:
         | FirstnameBunchofNumbers is I think just how Twitter creates new
         | accounts these days. They removed the ability or requirement to
         | come up with an @name, and just create it based on the first
         | name of the user.
         | 
         | What you're seeing is an artifact of when a certain demographic
         | started using Twitter.
        
           | jdashg wrote:
           | This is true, and while you can still change @name in the
           | options, it is sort of buried in there.
        
           | Kye wrote:
           | It's just a return to numbernames. AOL did the same thing
           | back in the 90s and 00s.
        
         | can16358p wrote:
         | I know another variant: alphanumeric usernames with exactly 8
         | characters. All lower, no underscores or other characters,
         | always 8 characters, spamming around. Very common with Turkish
         | fake news. Probably all generated by a bot.
        
       | motohagiography wrote:
       | Interesting, but is it news? This is what ad-tech does, and what
       | every political party hires advertising and PR agencies and
       | influencers to do. I thought the deal was those trends were
       | talking points for people for whom spending on this is worth it,
       | and that's what made it interesting. It's "what some people will
       | pay to have you to believe," it never occurred to me that social
       | media trends were organic functions of real aggregated human
       | desire. I think (at least young people) have a sense of what is
       | real or not.
       | 
       | Do people not already know that their passive understanding of
       | the world is very tightly managed and orchestrated by people
       | whose job is to be good at it?
       | 
       | > The researchers contacted Twitter twice, with the company
       | acknowledging in both cases the vulnerability in its Trends
       | algorithm. In the first case Twitter declined to make any
       | changes, in the second case the company did not respond to the
       | researchers' follow-up emails.
       | 
       | Treating this issue as a technical "vulnerability," mainly
       | reinforces the idea that Twitter's narrative orchestration is
       | somehow more real.
        
         | lepervier wrote:
         | It's news. Advertising and using PR agencies might not be news
         | but using hacked accounts as bots to push whatever slogan you
         | want to on top of Twitter (like hate speech "Syrians Get Out"
         | as stated in the article) easily should be news.
        
         | amatecha wrote:
         | Yes, what's newsworthy is that an in-depth study has concluded
         | some specific quantities about just how manipulated the trends
         | are. Rather than "yeah, you can just tell that stuff is
         | manipulated", they have concrete analysis to substantiate that.
        
         | lancesells wrote:
         | > "This manipulation has serious implications because we know
         | that Twitter Trends get attention. Broader media outlets report
         | on trends, which are used as a proxy for what people are
         | talking about, but unfortunately, it's a manipulated proxy,
         | distorting the public view of what conversations are actually
         | going on,"
         | 
         | This is definitely news and I would hope that this makes
         | members of the media writing stories about "people up in arms"
         | a twitter trend.
         | 
         | In the US only 1 in 5 people use twitter. When something trends
         | I would love to see how many people that really is. 1 in 50? 1
         | in 500? 1 in 5000? I wish I had the time and skills to really
         | show the statistics because I don't think it's all that viable
         | until it's used in the media and / or politicians.
        
         | lawwantsin17 wrote:
         | The main stream media and most people definitely act and talk
         | like it's real. So, maybe just not news to people who hate
         | twitter, but someone should really hire a bot to trend this
         | paper over there.
        
         | genericuser314 wrote:
         | "for each thing "everyone knows" by the time they're adults,
         | every day there are, on average, 10,000 people in the US
         | hearing about it for the first time."
         | 
         | ~ https://xkcd.com/1053/
        
         | websites420 wrote:
         | People outside of tech have no concept of what the algorithm
         | does and in general take what's on their feed at face value.
         | How could they not? The news very often runs stories about
         | tweets and Twitter trends as if they represent the real organic
         | sentiments of the citizens.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | telchar wrote:
       | I suspect this rather obvious flaw (from the article: not taking
       | deletion into account when calculating trends) is due to it being
       | easier to create a data pipeline that is purely additive at the
       | scale they're operating at. Not having to consider deletions and
       | updates simplifies development. This is too much of a
       | vulnerability not to fix, though. It amazes me Twitter somehow
       | manages to remain relevant with how broken it is in various ways.
        
         | zozbot234 wrote:
         | Deletion is easy if you're using ML based on feature vectors to
         | extract "trends", because you can just add one of the opposite
         | vector and the system is still purely "additive" at scale.
        
           | a1sabau wrote:
           | Not if you're using probabilistic data structures like Count-
           | Min[0]. You don't care about the exact count. You just want
           | an estimate with a certain probability. Such structures only
           | support addition, not removal.
           | 
           | [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Count%E2%80%93min_sketch
        
       | cblconfederate wrote:
       | Twitter and other media are abused by authoritarian governments,
       | and this abuse is dangerous. Unfortunately despite the
       | manipulation on FB , twitter etc, because the problem does not
       | affect 'rich and important' countries it gets little attention.
       | All of their algorithms are being manipulated by sneaky actors,
       | and their own systems lag behind them significantly to matter.
       | 
       | Social media should switch back to how it started, i.e. a
       | replacement for RSS in chronological mode.
        
         | AnimalMuppet wrote:
         | It doesn't affect rich and important countries? Have you
         | watched politics over the last several years?
        
           | cblconfederate wrote:
           | Not in that way
           | 
           | https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/apr/13/facebook-.
           | ..
        
       | blocked_again wrote:
       | > We found that 47% of local trends in Turkey and 20% of global
       | trends are fake, created from scratch by bots. Between June 2015
       | and September 2019, we uncovered 108,000 bot accounts involved,
       | the biggest bot dataset reported in a single paper. Our research
       | is the first to uncover the manipulation of Twitter Trends at
       | this scale. It can be some complex crypto puzzle that can be only
       | solved by real users. We need to find a solution.
       | 
       | I think democracies should introduce regulations that ensures
       | that.
       | 
       | * Bots cannot be created in large scale like this in social media
       | platforms. Basically you have to be a real perso to create an
       | account and there should be a limit on nunber of accounts one can
       | create. Who is a real human? Twitter verified users can be one
       | solution. Airbnb verified hosts seems to be another example.
       | Anything is better than the current model.
       | 
       | * Complex Ml models for generating the time lines should be
       | replaced with simple algorithms like sort on basis of
       | upvotes/time. Also the users should be able to easily access what
       | is the algorithm behind the news feed.
        
         | drunkpotato wrote:
         | While I think some careful regulation is required, I don't see
         | how it would be legal to ban Twitter, nor possible for Twitter
         | to entirely eliminate bots. But I think regulation could
         | provide some carrots and sticks to encourage platforms like
         | Twitter to be better at spotting and responding to these
         | campaigns. Right now there's not enough incentive for them to
         | invest much in combating bots, when their incentives are
         | overwhelmingly to drive engagement (and advertising dollars).
        
         | nathias wrote:
         | OR simply not treat them as relevant in their decision making?
        
         | AlexTWithBeard wrote:
         | Ironically, asking for an ID for internet access is usually a
         | telltale of not-so-democratic regime.
        
           | Zigurd wrote:
           | Asking for a method of payment, and using methods of payment
           | as a factor in enforcing bans, is an entirely private sector
           | market-based mitigation of bots and badly behaved humans.
           | 
           | Subscriptions are the future of worthwhile social media.
        
           | blocked_again wrote:
           | Nobody said to ask for an ID. You can verify the user is real
           | without tying the account to the ID.
        
             | pjc50 wrote:
             | This is remarkably hard to do, and it's even harder if you
             | want to prevent duplicate accounts.
        
           | hanniabu wrote:
           | Democracy and privacy are separate.
        
             | thechao wrote:
             | That only works in a well-functioning non-authoritarian
             | state. I would suspect that every major Western democracy
             | began in secret.
        
             | chrisco255 wrote:
             | No, they're not. Privacy is a human right.
        
               | wizzwizz4 wrote:
               | And democracy is not; if people want (say) anarchy
               | instead, they may, but they mustn't take away others'
               | privacy.
        
               | pjc50 wrote:
               | Under ECHR democracy _is_ elevated to a human right:
               | https://www.coe.int/en/web/conventions/full-
               | list/-/conventio...
               | 
               | (well, the right to free elections by secret ballot,
               | which is necessary but not sufficient)
        
         | ashtonkem wrote:
         | Sounds authoritarian to me. Hard pass.
        
           | someguyorother wrote:
           | You would need to use zero knowledge crypto on both sides so
           | the state doesn't know what platforms you're subscribed to,
           | and the platform doesn't know your real identity (or what
           | other users you have, only that you're below the limit).
           | 
           | It's hard but it shouldn't be impossible.
        
           | blocked_again wrote:
           | Well if a democracy elected by people decides to make this
           | decision how is that authoritarian?
        
             | ashtonkem wrote:
             | In the same way that if a democracy elects an authoritarian
             | then it stops being a democracy; by not respecting the
             | rights of its citizens in the name of a political
             | expedient.
        
               | blocked_again wrote:
               | I don't see how preventing malicious actors from using
               | 1000s of bots to manipulate the public consensus as
               | authoritarian.
        
               | ashtonkem wrote:
               | The goal isn't, at least not publicly, but the methods
               | are.
               | 
               | But then again, authoritarians almost never come out and
               | say "we intend to control every aspect of our citizens
               | lives in order to maintain power"; rather they find some
               | convenient fig leaf to hide behind.
               | 
               | And such is the same with your proposal; you're
               | advocating for greater government control over personal
               | lives in the name of protecting citizens from other
               | governments. Authoritarian shit, full stop.
        
               | blocked_again wrote:
               | You keep saying authoritarian a lot but you don't seen to
               | have any logical arguments on why the proposed solution
               | is bad. How on earth is preventing users from making
               | 1000s of bots and influencing the public consensus bad
               | for the democracy? I don't work for government. I don't
               | want random people with 1000sof bots to manipulate the
               | people around me and turn the democracy into a shitshow.
               | I don't know how the tech companies will do it. But there
               | should be only 1 account per person. 1 persons voice
               | should not be worth 1000 times the voice of other people.
               | That is not democracy.
        
               | wizzwizz4 wrote:
               | I don't really care if two of the authors, bloggers or
               | philosophers I follow happen to secretly be the same
               | person, writing under pseudonyms. There being two
               | identities doesn't make their voice count more.
               | 
               | If manipulating an automated system in this way makes
               | your voice "count more", there's a deeper problem.
        
               | zozbot234 wrote:
               | You could simply force users to solve complex human
               | CAPTCHAs if they want to post. Then sybil or bot attack
               | becomes impossible, because there is a limit to how many
               | trucks or bicycles any one user can recognize per day.
               | Current methods of verifying ID would still exist, for
               | users with accessibility issues that make it hard for
               | them to solve CAPTCHAs.
        
               | wizzwizz4 wrote:
               | > Then sybil or bot attack becomes impossible, because
               | there is a limit to how many trucks or bicycles any one
               | user can recognize per day.
               | 
               | * But there isn't really a limit on how many trucks or
               | bicycles my neural net can recognise per day.
               | 
               | * Nor is there much of a limit on how many people I can
               | pay pennies to solve CAPTCHAs for me.
        
               | ashtonkem wrote:
               | > You keep saying authoritarian a lot but you don't seen
               | to have any logical arguments on why the proposed
               | solution is bad.
               | 
               | I do, you've either misunderstood them or ignored them. I
               | will explain it again thoroughly.
               | 
               | I have no problem with your proposed goals, I take great
               | issue with the means by which you would try and reach
               | them. This is why "what's so wrong with <goal>?"
               | arguments are utterly unpersuasive; you're completely
               | ignoring the bits that I'm objecting to. It's not
               | sufficient that you propose this to "save" democracy, as
               | all policies good and bad come paired up with desirable
               | (or at least popular) goals. If "we're doing this for a
               | good reason" was sufficient, we'd be forced to conclude
               | that there has never been a bad policy ever, which is of
               | course ridiculous.
               | 
               | Your proposal involves using the power of the state to
               | control who can and cannot talk online, and to curtail
               | where citizens can exercise their right of free speech.
               | This is fundamentally an authoritarian proposal, as it is
               | the state coming in to directly control the free speech
               | right of its citizens. That this is done to "save
               | democracy" has a "we were forced to destroy the village
               | in order to save it" feeling to it.
               | 
               | Aside from the blatant unconstitutionality of what you
               | propose, there are two concrete issues; chilling effects
               | and scope creep.
               | 
               | Serious thinkers in this area, including the judiciary,
               | talk about the "chilling effects" that governmental
               | action can have on free speech. Even if the government
               | doesn't explicitly ban X or Y speech, actions it takes
               | can have the effect of dissuading people from saying
               | certain things. It is not hard to see how a restriction
               | on anonymous speech would be chilling, would people not
               | be more hesitant to criticize the government if they
               | could not do so anonymously? With the recent debates over
               | "cancel culture", is it not obvious that some people
               | would prefer to express controversial ideas under a
               | pseudonym? The courts certainly agree that anonymity is
               | required to avoid chilling effects as "anonymity may be
               | motivated by fear of economic or official retaliation, by
               | concern about social ostracism, or merely by a desire to
               | preserve as much of one's privacy as possible" (McIntyre
               | v. Ohio Elections Commission).
               | 
               | Secondly, remember that any power you give the government
               | will be eventually wielded by someone you do not like. It
               | does not take an overactive imagination how the ability
               | to ban websites "for the sake of democracy" would be
               | eventually abused by a politician. History is littered of
               | examples where emergency powers are eventually abused to
               | erode the rule of law they were proposed to save; we
               | should try and avoid such obvious mistakes moving
               | forward.
               | 
               | > 1 persons voice should not be worth 1000 times the
               | voice of other people. That is not democracy.
               | 
               | It seems to me that you might not actually understand
               | what democracy actually is. Are we not a democracy
               | because there are celebrities who have (far) more than
               | 1,000x the reach that you or I have? Are we not a
               | democracy because some people can go on TV to persuade,
               | while others cannot?
               | 
               | No. Democracy always was about equal access to the _vote_
               | , not equal access to an audience.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | willcipriano wrote:
             | Democracy not only can be authoritarian[0], Aristotle
             | thought that it was the inevitable outcome.
             | 
             | "Republics decline into democracies and democracies
             | degenerate into despotisms."
             | 
             | [0]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority
        
           | gopiandcode wrote:
           | It's honestly surprising how earnestly people can propose
           | such draconian measures without even considering the
           | consequences beyond a basic surface level analysis.
           | 
           | Mass manipulation by foreign interests may be bad (Americans
           | should bear in mind that for the majority of the world _they_
           | are also a foreign influence), but this kind of knee-jerk
           | reaction just paves the way for unprecedented censorship.
        
             | ashtonkem wrote:
             | Likewise, I remain shocked how broad and bipartisan the
             | support for expanding government power is. After the past
             | four years I certainly have learned the lesson that I want
             | to be more circumspect about what power I give the
             | government over my life, but I seem to be in the minority
             | here.
        
         | cheschire wrote:
         | How could you conceivably limit a service to only real users?
         | What is a real user anyways?
         | 
         | One account per person? What if that person has multiple
         | personas they're curating?
         | 
         | Require some form of ID verification? Well now you're talking
         | about thousands of differing implementations.
         | 
         | How does one prevent click farms that leverage real fingers
         | tapping on phones?
         | 
         | None of these allow a platform to scale like social networks
         | are expected to.
        
       | JSavageOne wrote:
       | My Twitter trending section in Ukraine last week consisted
       | entirely of porn related hashtags (pic:
       | https://twitter.com/jeremybernier/status/1397429733126721543...)
        
       | munk-a wrote:
       | Since social media is sorta supplanting traditional news I wonder
       | if that's level of inaccuracy is actually that surprising. How
       | many potential articles come across an editors desk - or as
       | pushed out by a company's PR department - that are just BS?
       | 
       | Social media has democratized editorializing so these topics get
       | put in front of a lot more faces - in the process we are dodging
       | some of the worst components of censorship, but it is a tradeoff
       | and I think which approach is better (centralized or
       | decentralized editorialship) is still an open question.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | OminousWeapons wrote:
         | > Since social media is sorta supplanting traditional news I
         | wonder if that's level of inaccuracy is actually that
         | surprising. How many potential articles come across an editors
         | desk - or as pushed out by a company's PR department - that are
         | just BS?
         | 
         | You make a fair point; a lot of news is either poorly
         | researched or biased. That being said, at least MOST news
         | outlets are trying to get to the truth. They may be lazy,
         | uninformed, or incapable of viewing the world objectively
         | instead of through a specific ideological lens, but they are
         | trying. Truth seeking is not the goal for many people posting
         | to social media. You call the content "editorialized" but it's
         | more like fiction and deliberate disinformation.
        
           | munk-a wrote:
           | I don't disagree with any of that but I wanted to clarify my
           | point - it's that social media is our way of (mostly)
           | removing the editorial filter from the process - so we're
           | essentially reading all the news - as opposed to "all the
           | news that's fit to print". I'd imagine that twitter's
           | trending section doesn't look all too different from an
           | editor's desk with random unsolicited story submissions along
           | with press releases from companies all flooding in with a
           | good portion of them being just entirely false and a larger
           | portion being exceedingly misleading.
           | 
           | Instead of relying on a professional to filter those down and
           | potentially remove some stories we'd really like to see (i.e.
           | some stories critical of the War in Iraq that countered the
           | yellow cake and WMD narrative pushed by the administration)
           | we now have to sort through all the crap - aided somewhat by
           | the decisions of others who have expressed their opinion on
           | whether a thing is a real story or not by engaging with it.
           | Part of my interest in the story also comes from the fact
           | that 50% is probably far higher a proportion of "true news"
           | than what would actually reach the desk on the editor.
           | 
           | And, I'd like to reiterate that I'm still very much on the
           | fence about which system is better.
        
             | OminousWeapons wrote:
             | That makes sense. Upon reading your initial post again more
             | carefully, I realized that I misinterpreted what you were
             | trying to say. Thank you for clarifying.
        
       | davesque wrote:
       | I think this must be happening on every social media platform in
       | some way. The fact is that people seem to love being afraid and
       | anxious. Bad news spreads like wild fire. All that X bad actor
       | has to do is just figure out _any_ worrying take on a topic of
       | choice and then just sit back and watch the mayhem.
       | 
       | I also think the most likely originators of this content are
       | state actors. If they can pay a group of people to drop
       | intellectual bombs in the public spheres of their enemies all
       | day, I'm sure they see that as an overall (and very cheap) win.
       | Honestly, it's more a question of why they _wouldn 't_ do this
       | than why would they.
        
         | amatecha wrote:
         | Every centralized "open to everyone" social media platform,
         | yes. No "trends" on Mastodon though, so you don't have to worry
         | about this BS on there, and blocking instances that allow
         | bots/spam is easy. :)
        
           | PhineasRex wrote:
           | I don't know why you're being downvoted. Decentralization is
           | effective at limiting the effectiveness of misinformation.
           | It's more difficult to impersonate a legitimate user in a
           | smaller community.
        
           | amatecha wrote:
           | Whoever downvotes this (??): Am I wrong? You think Facebook,
           | Twitter, TikTok, Instagram, VK, Tumblr, LinkedIn etc. are not
           | having their algorithms/feeds exploited by bot-posted
           | content? Even the most cursory search on the web reveals
           | countless reports.
           | 
           | Here are just a couple:
           | 
           | https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jun/19/social-
           | me...
           | 
           | https://internetofbusiness.com/propaganda-bots-social-
           | media-...
           | 
           | https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/06/24/how-fake-accounts-
           | con...
           | 
           | https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesbusinesscouncil/2020/08/0.
           | ..
        
           | jaredwiener wrote:
           | Simple solution -- dont get your news from places that let
           | anyone post. https://blog.nillium.com/fighting-
           | misinformation-online/
        
             | davesque wrote:
             | It's not so simple though. Because even trusted curators
             | and media organizations still feel obligated on some level
             | to maximize engagement. To compete with social media, they
             | often end up promoting and peddling similarly terrifying,
             | pessimistic, and "engaging" content.
        
         | wmeredith wrote:
         | > The fact is that people seem to love being afraid and anxious
         | 
         | They don't love it, but it does compel them to engage with the
         | content. Engagement = growth. Social media is basically a
         | cancer. There are good pockets here and there if curated
         | carefully, but overall it seems like it's a drain on society.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | agumonkey wrote:
           | web 2.0 makes one miss pubs
        
           | TravHatesMe wrote:
           | My concern is that it creates a false sense of reality. As
           | people become more consumed by technology, the content of the
           | technology becomes their reality. To be delusional is my
           | greatest fear.
        
             | hn8788 wrote:
             | That's definitely true. I have a family member that was
             | doing a running program as part of physical therapy. One
             | day they said they were afraid to go running alone because
             | they read about a girl getting kidnapped while she was out
             | for a run. Turns out it happened over 1000 miles away, but
             | the constant fearmongering and outrage bait has warped
             | their perception to think that kind of stuff is happening
             | everywhere all the time.
        
             | Layke1123 wrote:
             | Way ahead of you with religion.
        
           | slivanes wrote:
           | I read someones comment that put this into perspective, here
           | was the basic take:
           | 
           | In repressive regimes, social media is a boon for the general
           | public to organize and resist.
           | 
           | In established democracies, social media has slow insidious
           | negative effect on the general population, typically
           | propaganda supplied by the disillusioned and said repressive
           | regimes.
        
             | lupire wrote:
             | Social media triggered the Arab Spring which destroyed
             | nations.
        
       | mschuster91 wrote:
       | Can someone please inspect the German Twitter trends, too?
       | 
       | It's an almost daily occurence that far-right vocabulary ends up
       | trending, and the utter _garbage_ that gets spewed there is toxic
       | and dangerous.
        
       | allochthon wrote:
       | I've noticed that online influence campaigns are starting to
       | really kick into gear. Any comments in news articles posted to
       | the r/worldnews subreddit about the Uyghurs in Xinjiang that do
       | not defend the status quo there will be downvoted to -15 or more,
       | and if you take note of commenters, it soon becomes clear that
       | there's a lot of brigading. Many of the comments conflate
       | criticism of the situation with racism or a desire to start a
       | war.
        
         | iratic0 wrote:
         | I have noticed that too, which is why I don't trust what's
         | trending on reddit anymore. I have noticed influencers on
         | youtube and elsewhere, who never usually talk about political
         | issues, making out of place comments about various issues. I
         | can't tell if the uncomfortable look on their faces or the
         | awkward way they deliver the message that gives away the fact
         | that they've been paid to take a side.
        
       | sandworm101 wrote:
       | What is the "fake" rate for twitter normally? I don't know
       | whether the fact that half in one area are fake means anything.
       | If someone tole me that 90+% of all twitter traffic came from
       | bots or other "fake" sources I would believe it.
       | 
       | >> "We found that 47% of local trends in Turkey and 20% of global
       | trends are fake, created from scratch by bots.
       | 
       | How am I meant to read that? By 'trend' do they mean trending
       | posts? Does 'fake' mean created from scratch by bots? Are these
       | AI bots generating their own content? If a russian operative is
       | feeding stories to a bot, does that material qualify as fake?
       | What if a bot picks up a non-fake but incorrect story and spreads
       | it to a billion people? Is is fakery if a Microsoft bot finds and
       | retweets a customer review of Windows 10? What about fake stories
       | that are promoted by real people?
        
       | amatecha wrote:
       | Centralized communication platforms with engagement-
       | incentivization built into the experience are an excellent tool
       | for mass manipulation and propaganda.
        
       | villgax wrote:
       | Both the major political parties are to be investigated in India
       | as well for seemingly banal hastags which individual IT cells in
       | the hinterland want to propagate. You'd be hard pressed to find
       | someone from the city or towns being so pressed to tweet about a
       | political party & nothing else on Twitter of all places & content
        
         | blueblisters wrote:
         | Twitter India is a cesspool. Political parties spend so much
         | energy asking tweeting against each other, you would think
         | Indians have a large presence on Twitter and would care about
         | such things. But the reality is that Twitter has the smallest
         | footprint in India among the major social networks. I wouldn't
         | be surprised if a double digit percentage of Twitter India
         | users were affiliated to one of the political parties.
        
       | shrikant wrote:
       | The original source is much better written and explains the core
       | of what the paper actually uncovers:
       | 
       | > [...] found a vulnerability in the algorithm that decides
       | Twitter Trending Topics: it does not take deletions into account.
       | This allows attackers to push the trends they want to the top of
       | Twitter Trends despite deleting their tweets which contain the
       | candidate trend shortly afterwards.
       | 
       | Source: https://actu.epfl.ch/news/mass-scale-manipulation-of-
       | twitter...
       | 
       | Paper: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1910.07783.pdf
        
         | FridayoLeary wrote:
         | Thanks. I just tried to change the URL to the one you suggested
         | but i don't seem to be able to. Oh well. I guess i will just
         | have to appeal to dang and sit back and let him sort it out.
        
           | ChrisArchitect wrote:
           | or just submit the real one.
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27369315
        
         | Natsu wrote:
         | Thanks for that. When I read the headline, I wondered if they
         | were talking about Twitter's own manipulation of what trends or
         | not.
        
       | cout wrote:
       | Is there any way to see your own deleted posts, or otherwise know
       | if your account is being used in this way?
        
       | ratww wrote:
       | The only reason the automated Twitter Trends exist is to keep
       | Twitter itself relevant, as it generates lazy pseudo-journalism
       | articles such as "such and such was a trend".
       | 
       | It's merely a tool that reacts to spam. Even when it's for a good
       | cause it's just people manipulating an algorithm by saying
       | absolutely nothing of value.
       | 
       | Nothing of value to the humanity will be lost if they nuke this
       | feature tomorrow.
        
         | kordlessagain wrote:
         | Nothing of value would be lost if they nuked Twitter.
        
         | mrweasel wrote:
         | What I didn't understand was why this is even a problem, but
         | they explain it in the article:
         | 
         | > Broader media outlets report on trends, which are used as a
         | proxy for what people are talking about
         | 
         | Fair enough that Twitter doesn't want to be manipulated, I can
         | understand that. Still it should not have a real world impact
         | in my mind. Except that you're right in that "lazy pseudo-
         | journalism" picks this stuff up and report on it, as if it was
         | real news, without doing any fact finding of their own. It's a
         | silly "what's trending" box, it's not actually a source you can
         | use, because we don't know what the criteria Twitter uses to
         | generate it.
         | 
         | News media is moving to fast, and there's a desire to provide
         | 24/7 news coverage, on a budget, so they resort to using
         | whatever silly online gadget is available. Journalist should be
         | WAY more critical about using Twitter and tweets as actual
         | sources of news.
        
           | starkd wrote:
           | Exactly. You have to wonder if this is what's responsible for
           | cancel culture. Issues being called out that have only become
           | an issue recently. It could explain how it's out of control
           | it has become.
        
             | mrweasel wrote:
             | I certainly think that's one reason. There are way to many
             | stupid posts from Twitter, and Facebook, which are blown
             | completely out of proportion and taken to level of conflict
             | which wouldn't have happened previously.
             | 
             | Sure there are absolutely some issues from social media
             | that are worth highlighting in the news media, but all shit
             | storms and online controversies aren't created equally. To
             | often one or two posts are taken out of context, especially
             | on Twitter where people try to cram their message into as
             | few words as possible. That is then elevated to "This
             | person is horrible" or "All people in this group are bad".
             | 
             | The reality is that some people are just assholes, and
             | while annoying and terrible, it's simply not worth writing
             | about.
        
               | bilbo0s wrote:
               | _it 's simply not worth writing about._
               | 
               | We would need to convince _people_ in society that it 's
               | not "worth writing about", which isn't going to happen.
               | It's radical information freedom. People get access to
               | information they would never have had access to
               | previously. A drawback of that is that people become free
               | to act on information they would never have had access to
               | previously.
               | 
               | The thing about Twitter, (about most social media
               | actually), is that they are built on the reality that the
               | vast majority of the population believe this stuff is,
               | indeed, "worth writing about". That's how they make their
               | money. Everyone writing about what everyone else wrote
               | about. Business is good precisely because everyone thinks
               | all this stuff is "worth writing about". And there is no
               | sign anyone will meaningfully change.
               | 
               | I don't see much hope actually. My best advice is try to
               | maintain your privacy. (Well, I guess also "don't be an
               | asshole" is pretty good advice as you intimate.)
        
               | starkd wrote:
               | But if this study is to be believed, it shows that many
               | of these viral storms could very well be inauthentic or
               | non-organic. In other words, they are not naturally
               | occurring. They only rise to people's consciousness out
               | of nefarious intent. Take out the algorithm and you might
               | have more sensible trending topics.
        
         | duxup wrote:
         | I really wish the use of twitter as a method of gauging the hoi
         | polloi's opinion would just end.
         | 
         | It infects everything. I listen to podcasts and everything from
         | coding podcasts to sports involves someone saying "i know
         | people on twitter" or something like that before they give
         | their thoughts.
         | 
         | Bro I turned the podcast to hear from you, I don't care how it
         | relates to twitter.
         | 
         | A while back there was a 'fan revolt' among fans of a sports
         | team I follow. So I hit twitter and it's as far as I can tell
         | ... two dozen accounts and more than half had never tweeted
         | more than 3 tweets...
        
         | jancsika wrote:
         | > It's merely a tool that reacts to spam.
         | 
         | That sentence is only meaningful in the context of this
         | article-- one in which research uncovered spammers who found a
         | specific way to game Twitter's algorithm in order to exploit it
         | to skew the results.
         | 
         | Take away the research and the source for your sentence is
         | either, "people who are saying..." or, "everybody on HN already
         | knows..."
         | 
         | The only difference I can see between that and generating "lazy
         | pseudo-journalism" is remuneration.
        
           | ratww wrote:
           | I'll try to qualify my assertion:
           | 
           |  _> It 's merely a tool that reacts to what is mostly
           | useless/placeholder/redundant/uninteresting/spam content_
           | 
           | Happy?
           | 
           | The current topic on my region is "#Hurentag" and the most
           | relevant tweets are mostly "Happy #Hurentag", plus some spam
           | from people linking to their Instagram.
           | 
           | The second is #getimpf which is just people making selfies,
           | others complaining about the selfies, and some people trying
           | to prop-up their blogs.
           | 
           | The third is "Switch Pro" which is one article by Verge and
           | lots of people discussing why it's trending. Plus some blog
           | and Instagram spam. There's also an OnlyFans spam showing up
           | for me.
           | 
           | Then there's "Nintendo" which is the same as the above.
           | 
           | If you scroll down two pages on each topic you'll always see
           | people posting unrelated things with the trending topic
           | words/hashtags.
           | 
           | Apart from one post from The Verge on the top of "Switch Pro"
           | and "Nintendo" there is NOTHING of value on those tweets.
           | ZERO discussion. Nobody talking about anything.
           | 
           | The issue is not that it's useless. That's quite fun,
           | actually. The issue is that it's not really a proper way of
           | measuring what people are really talking about, because 99%
           | of the content has NOTHING to do with the topic in question
           | other than containing a word or hashtag.
           | 
           |  _> The only difference I can see between that and generating
           | "lazy pseudo-journalism" is remuneration._
           | 
           | Not really. I'm doing this while I wait for my tests to run,
           | so I'm definitely getting paid, probably more than
           | journalists.
        
             | Epokhe wrote:
             | I don't use trending topics in ordinary days. It helps me a
             | lot when something important happened recently.
             | 
             | An important political speech, a big earthquake, bombing...
             | For this kind of situations, Twitter trending topics help a
             | lot, because it provides you the most up-to-date source of
             | news.
             | 
             | When critical situations happen, your priority is getting
             | the news live. Correctness, officialness are less
             | important. I don't know a better way to get that kind of
             | news other than trending topics.
        
               | ratww wrote:
               | But you don't need trending topics for that. It can be
               | replaced with a simple search, which is way more
               | effective. Having important news jumping into the
               | trending topics tend to add noise to the search because
               | of the popularity.
               | 
               | I do searches all the time to check whenever
               | Github/Jira/whatever is down, or when there's some
               | helicopter over my neighborhood, or even in major events,
               | but as soon as it enters trending topics it's a bit less
               | effective.
        
               | Epokhe wrote:
               | I also thought about just using search. But trending
               | topics let me know if something important is happening
               | when I'm not aware. I still think it's valuable at times,
               | while I also think it may be spammy and should be
               | improved.
               | 
               | I think its low signal to noise ratio makes you ignore
               | it, which is bad. But I think instead of just removing
               | it, spams should be prevented more effectively. Because I
               | know "trending" concept is useful when it works. HN,
               | Reddit and some other aggregator sites have homepages
               | with trending content, of course with varying degree of
               | success.
        
         | rvz wrote:
         | They need the outrage machine to continue running. Soon it will
         | be a paid for service.
         | 
         | Thank heavens I'm not the one moderating the tweets on that
         | hell-stew of a website.
        
           | gentleman11 wrote:
           | I have a friend who is moderating a pride-relevant subreddit
           | this month. They plan to postpone most of their social
           | engagements in anticipation of the drama so they can keep the
           | discussion reasonable. Imagine how it must get that they need
           | to commit so much time
        
       | TonyTrapp wrote:
       | Twitter is so much more peaceful if you set the location to use
       | for trends to some country whose language you cannot read, or a
       | region for which there simply exist no twitter trends (e.g. Aland
       | Islands).
        
         | chrisco255 wrote:
         | Better yet install the Calm Twitter chromium extension and
         | you'll never have to look at them again.
        
         | strangattractor wrote:
         | Better yet do like me and don't have an account. My days are
         | bliss. No trolls. No discussion/arguments about NOTHING. The
         | definition of Peace is not having a Twitter or Facebook
         | account.
        
           | swiley wrote:
           | I knew a guy in college who was always angry about something.
           | 
           | One day he gave up twitter and it turns out he was really
           | intelligent and pleasant to be around.
        
           | can16358p wrote:
           | This. I've quit using Twitter (and almost every other social
           | media platform afterwards except Instagram which is basically
           | my portfolio) and my level of frustration went down by an
           | order of magnitude since then.
        
         | pelorat wrote:
         | I just follow a bunch of people, I never click on trends or
         | hashtags.
        
       | spinny wrote:
       | Interesting ... big tech oligarchs manipulating social media is
       | ok, somebody hacking the trends algo is bad ...
        
       | rvz wrote:
       | What a surprise! /s
       | 
       | Almost everything you see on Twitter is manipulated. Bad actors,
       | the users and even Twitter themselves do it. If it's not them on
       | a Sunday it's the bots doing it.
       | 
       | The daily drama on Twitter starts with a user spreading some
       | unverified accusations of another user which that goes viral and
       | someone's life is destroyed. Originating from Twitter and ends up
       | in the newspapers and on some rare cases on TV (When it is slow
       | news day).
       | 
       | Don't worry though, at least we know that Twitter is so heavily
       | manipulated, even its users would STILL pay for the lies that
       | spread so easily on there.
        
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       (page generated 2021-06-02 23:00 UTC)