[HN Gopher] The Brazilianization of the World
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The Brazilianization of the World
Author : GranularRecipe
Score : 94 points
Date : 2021-05-31 19:58 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (americanaffairsjournal.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (americanaffairsjournal.org)
| DoingIsLearning wrote:
| > Just look at Italian elites' desperation to remain part of
| euro, despite the penury to which it subjects the country and the
| destruction of any future for it.
|
| It is an absolutely false hyperbole to claim that the Euro is the
| cause of economic decline and the destruction of Italian future.
|
| I was in agreement with the general premise of the article but
| this wild claim written as a fact makes me question all the other
| claims that I lack the knowledge to challenge.
| 127 wrote:
| Your quote doesn't seem to say anything such. It's the decision
| of the elites, not euro itself.
|
| Also, I don't see how it's that far off the mark. Germany
| enjoys the benefits of strong exports, at the cost of the
| periphery. It's actually a pretty well known and often
| commented about fact.
|
| Italy is one of the biggest losers from joining the euro
| system.
| rglullis wrote:
| It's a good article and the central point is valid, but the
| author shows a strong left-leaning stance that undermines it
| all for no good reason. Clear tells about his ideology are in
| his portrayal of Cardoso as a "neoliberal" and his romanticized
| presentation of Lula and Haddad.
|
| And that is a shame, because a more neutral historian would
| clearly acknowledge that Lula (and the Worker's Party) _were_
| given the chance to lead the country into a cultural shift and
| finally realize a project for the country, but failed precisely
| because they saw themselves as the "new elites" and played the
| exact same kind of power games to keep themselves on top.
| cardosof wrote:
| This, precisly this. The author's stance on the Left (as
| shown in his other articles and personal blog), his mention
| of Lava Jato as corrupt and putting FHC as neoliberal and
| Haddad as center-left really undermines all the writing of
| what could be, in the hands of a more experienced and neutral
| author, an interesting reflection.
| maybelsyrup wrote:
| > I was in agreement with the general premise of the article
| but this wild claim written as a fact makes me question all the
| other claims that I lack the knowledge to challenge.
|
| I think that's a good reaction, the "questioning" - now go
| verify them (the other claims) maybe? Also, maybe temper
| expectations, too -- I read a lot of stuff in which I find
| myself agreeing and disagreeing in various places, or seeing
| correct and incorrect things all at once. But I try to resist
| the instinct to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I don't
| mean to pile on but I see a lot of this sort of reaction to
| things these days and I'm curious about it.
|
| > wild claim written as a fact
|
| How should the author have written it instead? "I believe that
| Italian elites are desperate to remain part of the euro, and I
| also believe that the Euro subjects it to penury and destroys
| its future" ? In my mind that's not that different. It's an
| essay -- it's understood that the entire thing is a "claim",
| often a wild one.
| RobertoG wrote:
| >>"It is an absolutely false hyperbole to claim that the Euro
| is the cause of economic decline and the destruction of Italian
| future."
|
| I think that, if that's your opinion, you don't understand the
| Euro very well.
|
| The Euro is a monetary union without fiscal capacity. It's so
| bad designed that in order to survive it has to break its own
| rules every few years, but then we made like if that didn't
| happen and everything is OK.
| visualradio wrote:
| Setting aside economics, James Madison developed an interesting
| categorization of systems of governance, based upon their method
| of obtaining civic energy, which seems rather timeless:
|
| "Spirit of Governments"
|
| https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Madison/01-14-02-020...
| fcanesin wrote:
| "The important stuff--the really valuable ideas--were now
| protected by intellectual property rights"
|
| There are several reasons why China/Japan/Korea had very little
| regard for international IP on its high growth years - Brazil
| should do the same. Being per capita poor means that majority
| cannot consume imported goods, sometimes those are important for
| further development like machines, methods and tools - for small
| and even medium size entrepreneurs.
| ravieira wrote:
| For those who enjoyed the article, and are further interested in
| reading more about this central theme of frustrated
| economic/historical development specially as it took and takes
| place in Brazil, I recommend reading the late Professor Darcy
| Ribeiro.
|
| In my view, largely influenced by Ribeiro, Brazil's elites are
| immensely selfish and petty, as well as always stuck in outdated
| economics and politics (e.g. rural elites have always been way
| too influential, ). The State is blatantly *negligent* and does
| not think about serving its people (e.g. let them build and live
| in favelas and leave them to their faith, build a new housing
| project but make it 20 miles from the beach and nevermind
| planning for transportation or education in the area).
|
| There's definitely much that I love about Brazilian culture and
| the "general disposition" of my fellow nationals, but I agree
| that as a whole we have developed this sense of morbid ironic
| detachment from our social environment.
| speeder wrote:
| It is not just that.
|
| For example if you read letters from Dom Pedro I to Dom Pedro
| II, and also see the opinions they had, both believed
| Brazillian economy was backwards and stupid, they believed
| strongly that it would be far more profitable, not just for the
| country, but even for the large landowners, if they agreed with
| the end of slavery, because it would create a consumer class
| (among other things).
|
| I also saw similar issues regarding modernization of
| manufacturing, with the government wanting it but the elite
| resisting.
|
| When the State finally ended slavery for good (after many
| attempts! For example one thing I was never taught in school,
| is that Brazil explicitly allowed England to sink Brazillian
| slaver ships way before slavery officially ended, as an attempt
| to end slavery while not antagonizing the elite), instead the
| elite kicked the government out and created its own.
|
| Things basically remain this way, whenever the leadership is
| promising, the elite kick it out somehow.
| lanna wrote:
| > Brazil explicitly allowed England to sink Brazillian slaver
| ships
|
| Killing all slaves in the ship?
| speeder wrote:
| Well, theoretically the threat of sinking the ship would
| make people not attempt at all, or surrender the slaves to
| England.
|
| But I really doubt this theoretical approach always
| worked... probably trigger happy english captains existed.
| TheGigaChad wrote:
| Communist blabbing, they can go to Venezuela and enjoy their
| utopia.
| brazilnawtion wrote:
| Given the author's posts on twitter and how his arguments are
| organized in the article, it just show how a political view
| spreads on all his views of the world and how facts doesn't
| matter
| yosito wrote:
| > a new ethnic stalemate between a racially mixed working class
| and a white elite
|
| *sigh*
|
| It's really hard to take seriously anyone with the opinion that
| there are no working class whites.
| lordnacho wrote:
| I took it as meaning there are white, black, others, and mixed
| people who are working class, but elites are always white.
| senkora wrote:
| I think both meanings are plausible in this context.
| "Racially mixed" could reasonably suggest "mixed race", and
| "mixed race" always means multi-racial in English. Mestizo is
| a similar term.
|
| The author could have chosen a clearer phrasing to avoid this
| problem.
| 01100011 wrote:
| I don't think that's what those words mean. It's saying the
| elites are white. That does not exclude whites from the
| racially mixed elite.
| [deleted]
| MauroIksem wrote:
| That's not what he means. Whites are included in the mixed
| mixed class.
| hyko wrote:
| Cool premise, catchy headline, doesn't fit the known facts.
| dang wrote:
| " _Please don 't post shallow dismissals, especially of other
| people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something._"
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
| didibus wrote:
| > In political terms, Brazilianization means patrimonialism,
| clientelism, and corruption. Rather than see these as
| aberrations, we should understand them as the normal state of
| politics when widely shared economic progress is not available,
| and the socialist Left cannot act as a countervailing force. It
| was the industrial proletariat and socialist politics that kept
| liberalism honest, and prevented elites from instrumentalizing
| the state for their own interests.
|
| It's a long article, but I think this quote summarizes it for
| people who want a TL;DR
| f00zz wrote:
| Only skimmed through it, but looks like a fairly typical specimen
| of the verborrhea produced by the Brazilian intelligentsia (who
| themselves usually come from the very elite that they claim to
| hate), except that this time it's written in English
|
| Telltale shibboleths: neoliberal capitalism as the big villain
| (Brazil has one of the lowest trade/GDP ratios in the world, heck
| I wish neoliberalism was our biggest problem), an unhealthy
| obsession with "neoliberal" former president Fernando Henrique
| Cardoso (thanks to him for selling the "state-owned family
| jewels", growing up in the 90s we didn't have a phone line, only
| the rich could afford one from the the state-owned phone
| company), and "institutional coup in 2016" was the icing on the
| cake
| rafaelero wrote:
| I agree. This is the typical text that is used in Economics
| classes in Brazilian universities. 4 years of that I am very
| tired of this type of content. No attempt to explain why things
| came about the way authors think they did; too much reliance on
| the "agency of the elites" (how could they intentionally stop a
| country from developing? And why would they do that?). Also, I
| don't think Brazil is a special example at all. It has a GDP
| per capita very close to what would be predicted by its human
| capital. The interesting cases are Chile and Argentina (why one
| was so successful and the other so miserable in the last
| decades?).
| slig wrote:
| In one picture:
| https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/nov/29/sao-paulo-inj...
| augusto-moura wrote:
| I don't think the image has to do with the term
| Brazilianization, it shows a brazilian problem sure, but the
| term is deeper than social inequalities, is more about not
| reaching a never ending promise of future
| lhorie wrote:
| In a nutshell, the article argues about similarities between
| Brazil sociopolitical landscape and that of other western powers
| (mostly US and EU). The similarities, it argues, are that the
| capitalist system consists of growth based on exploiting
| peripheral groups to the benefit of the elites. The repercussions
| are indeed clear: erosion of employment (e.g. the tipping system
| in the US, air quote "contractors" barely making minimum wage,
| multiple jobs to make ends meet, etc), a growing sense of
| disconnect between the people and government as an entity to
| drive social improvements, the rise of corporate lobbying, etc.
| Even if specifics are different, it seems easy to agree with the
| premise that first world countries are headed to the same fate of
| "endless frustration" that characterizes Brazilian socioeconomics
| and politics.
|
| I think it's telling that the author felt the need to reach for
| Brazil as an allegory to avoid the tired capitalism-vs-socialism
| bickering that plagues discussions about economic policy and
| social inequality. Nobody wants to hear that their own capitalist
| pursuit of success is fundamentally perched on exploitation. It's
| less awkward to point and shake heads at Brazil.
|
| In a way, Brazil is a perfect poster child of the sociopolitical
| ailments of the world: its inadequacies serve quite appropriately
| as caricatures of the inadequacies of the western world, but its
| society is so alienated that people can't even be bothered to
| attempt to mount a patriotic defense of its ways.
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