[HN Gopher] On Smoking
___________________________________________________________________
On Smoking
Author : exolymph
Score : 114 points
Date : 2021-05-31 18:50 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (annagat.substack.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (annagat.substack.com)
| lwhi wrote:
| I'm still smoking at the moment.
|
| I've quit for years and started again.
|
| It's the push and pull .. the need and that satiation that I find
| so satisfying, and to a certain extent it's that rhythm I find
| ultimately attractive.
|
| The slow build up of a hunger, before you end it with a delicious
| meal. The relaxing bath after a 30 mile hike. The 10 hour sleep
| after a stressful few days running on caffeine. The buzz of
| endorphins after breaking through the pain barrier on a run.
|
| Unfortunately, I'm a bit of a junky at heart. But I would like to
| stop smoking.
| Torwald wrote:
| Allen Carr's Easy way out. It's a book. He explains the mind
| hack that smoking is. Once you grok that, quitting is easy.
| ciconeniba2 wrote:
| I have been a smoker for over 20 years as well, I think it was
| hard at first to quit smoking but I agree with the author
| article, something changes in you.
|
| Every now and then I feel like I want to smoke and I buy a pack
| of cigarette, I smoke chain a couple of them and figure out I
| don't really like it and don't want to do that anymore and I
| don't get the urge anymore for four month or six...
|
| I have been doing this for the last five years or so, maybe i
| didn't quit fully but I don't do a pack and half every day or
| have to wake up mid night to have a smoke anymore.
| chippy wrote:
| I started vaping around the same time as the first lockdown. I
| never enjoyed it really and it kind of actually hurt my lungs a
| couple of times. I stopped. Break until next lockdown. I started
| smoking a tobacco pipe. Maybe 1 bowl every 3 days. More
| meditative, lasts around 40 mins, with the geeky hobby of
| different flavours, blends, techniques. It's also less nicotine
| and because there's no inhalation, much less worse. But it feels
| good and much more "right" than vaping or smoking like an
| addicted monkey.
|
| I never got into smoking cigars, they seem to last way longer and
| be more powerful. Like being forced to drink 10 espressos over
| the space of 20 minutes.
| dageshi wrote:
| Cigars aren't a million miles away from pipe tobacco, you don't
| inhale them either (some do, but they're lunatics). Larger
| sizes will probably take an hour, the largest closer to two.
| Power wise, it very much depends on the cigar, some are very
| mild, some very powerful, but my personal experience is that
| much like pipes they aren't addictive for most people, I smoke
| 2-3 a week in the summer when the weather is nice.
| [deleted]
| gerdesj wrote:
| I gave up just over three years ago. It was bloody hard. I came
| up with a couple of things to say to myself if I wanted a fag. I
| used them as mantras as soon as I wanted a drag.
|
| I came up with "I don't want to die" and "I don't want to smell".
|
| I also made targets - 1 day, 2, 4, week. Fortnight. Month. etc (I
| will never go back ...)
|
| If you want to give up you can but it is bloody hard
| [deleted]
| werber wrote:
| I quit smoking when I got COVID because it was the first time I
| was too sick to smoke. I've tried to smoke since and it just
| tastes awful. I know this might be crude to say but I'm thankful
| for having had the virus
| k__ wrote:
| I knew a bunch of people who started smoking menthol because of
| sickness.
| the_only_law wrote:
| For me, menthols never seemed to sit well on my stomach.
| jessriedel wrote:
| > too embarrassed of chewing-gums
|
| In case others don't know, there are nicotine lozenges that are
| smaller than the gum and require no chewing. And if you happen to
| swallow them nothing happens, the nicotine is destroyed by your
| stomachs without being absorbed. They are really very discreet to
| use.
|
| (Even the gum isn't actually chewed like regular gum; you just
| chew it for a few seconds and let it sit on your gum.)
| augusto-moura wrote:
| I think that she means chewing gum to mask off the breath. I'm
| a smoker and do that very often, it's kinda rude to speak to
| other people while having a breath of thousand cigarrettes
| dingo454 wrote:
| That hardly masks anything TBH. You smell the same with some
| hint of mint on top. Most of the smell comes from your lungs,
| your clothing and your hair. You need to stay outside for a
| good 10 minutes to make a significant difference in perceived
| smell. Anything else is mostly wishful thinking...
| augusto-moura wrote:
| It does make a difference, even so slightly. Trust me in
| that one, I have been called off more than one time by not
| using mints. But yeah, I agree that it doesn't remove the
| stench completely
| dingo454 wrote:
| I generally never comment on this to my coworkers because
| I want to be polite and keep good relationships (I've had
| very hard responses to very polite requests just to open
| the windows in the past, so I simply stopped commenting).
|
| I'm doing this here because I'm seeing this often, and I
| want to be honest: no, it doesn't really do much, unless
| we're talking about ~50cm face-to-face conversations
| maybe (something that would make me back-off quite
| sharply, gum or not).
|
| Keep in mind the smell after 10 minutes of open-air
| ventilation is still not a smell I would consider
| acceptable. For consideration, a very nasty and strong
| office fart would be in the same line of stench for my
| nose at that point. Except a fart doesn't tend to cling
| on for so long.
|
| Sorry for the analogy :(
| pengaru wrote:
| It's also worth noting nicotine has interesting "nootropic"
| properties. You don't really have to quit your addiction to
| quit smoking, and there can be some advantages to continuing if
| you can afford it in safer forms.
| greenshackle2 wrote:
| I got myself addicted to nicotine gum and I never even
| smoked. To the point that I was _constantly_ using it. Going
| through maybe 10-15 2mg gums per day. I used patches and
| regular non-nicotine gum to quit but I still have the urge,
| especially when I have difficulty focusing at work, because
| it does actually seem to help with that.
| motohagiography wrote:
| It is a suprisingly powerful drug. I gave up cigarettes over
| 20 years ago and have zero craving for them, the smell is
| revolting. Looking back, the craving felt a lot like fasting.
| However today, I have a cigar a little more than once a month
| on average, and I can tell the nicotine content affects mood,
| sleep, and maybe some hormone levels for a day or two after,
| as much or moreso than most prescriptions I've ever taken.
| There is extra focus and centeredness under its influence and
| a kind of diminished neuroticism, which I suppose was what
| made it "cool." There are other factors on that as well,
| since who today has an hour of uninterrupted solitude (let
| alone in good company) to sit and do nothing but contemplate,
| with the space of your own to temporarily pollute, and afford
| to spend the kind of money on yourself that a good one costs.
| It would be hard to separate this mini-vacation from the
| percieved smart drug effects of nicotine. Cigarettes are evil
| and cruel in every concievable way, and anyone under their
| yoke who breaks it deserves support.
|
| Fan of OP's interintellect startup as well.
| dageshi wrote:
| Nicotine seems to vary depending on the delivery mechanism.
| Cigar (not inhaled) do not seem to be addictive at all for
| most who use them, more of a hobby. I've used the little
| Swedish "packets" you slip under your top lip and those are
| like a habit that's hard to break while you have a supply,
| they become part of your daily routine but I've never had any
| withdrawal symptoms from them.
|
| Cigarettes by all accounts seem addictive as fuck, I did have
| one when I was younger, desperately wanted another for about
| 2 days afterwards, after that the craving subsided I never
| had another one since.
| snusthrowaway wrote:
| Conversely, I have never had any urge for cigarettes.
| Occasionally, I crave for cigars. Snus, however, I crave
| roughly daily despite stopping around 6 months ago. During
| lockdowns my nicotine use via snus got a bit out of hand --
| at the peak I spent roughly a puck a day (so like 20x
| pouches of maybe 14mg nicotine a day). I usually stayed up
| two days straight and slept for the third. Once I woke up,
| I could not get out of the bed without one. Once I stopped
| using when I ran out, I had headaches which felt like they
| crushed my head and put the world spinning. This continued
| for maybe 3 days. After 3 months of discontinued use, I
| tried one of the stronger snus brands while intoxicated --
| the ones I would not given a second thought while at my
| peaks -- I became so overwhelmed in a matter of a dozen
| seconds that I could not walk, and had to lie down and
| avoid puking on the spot.
|
| And despite stopping, I now have this clear cavity on my
| right side of mouth with the gums clearly redacted. I only
| spent snus heavily for roughly three months (which probably
| masqueraded depression or lack of motivation), albeit,
| during that time almost at all times and occasionally with
| multiple pouches.
|
| Overall, I have done coffee at great amounts, tried
| amphetamines and ephedrine, cannabis in most of its forms,
| some benzos, and self-medicated myself with alcohol, and I
| must say the physical withdrawals for me have been worst
| with nicotine, with only benzos taking the lead on the
| physiological toplist.
| bitcuration wrote:
| has vaping been out of question?
| alea_iacta_est wrote:
| Don't be like me and end up addicted to the lozenges... Still
| using them after 5 years since I quit smoking.
| staticautomatic wrote:
| Better than being addicted to cigarettes though.
| alea_iacta_est wrote:
| Yes, definitely, even if they're not perfect, they can give
| you some stomach ache, bloating, mouth sores, etc, but
| overall, I don't regret the trade.
| xzel wrote:
| Tobacco free snus like pouches have exploded in the US the past
| two years. I quit smoking about a year and a half ago by
| switching to them. I'm not sure if they're cooler or less cool
| than gum but it's pretty great not smoking. I'd recommend
| anyone trying to quit to look into them as a possibility.
| varjag wrote:
| I quit after some 15 years of smoking. Not experiencing any
| cravings at this point. On the onset of COVID I even bought
| multiple packs to experiment with using the filters in 3D printed
| nasal breathers - didn't even want to light one.
|
| However I wouldn't have bothered quitting had it not been long
| term health hazard. I quite enjoyed the routine.
| murat131 wrote:
| The thing about smoking is that when you quit smoking you quit it
| every day. Imagine a light switch on the wall. You turn it off by
| quitting smoking and you can always go back at a desperate time
| for instance and turn it on. And some time later off again.
| Smoking your first cigarette implants that light switch on your
| mind and you can't make it go away. Since you know how it makes
| you feel good when the switch is on, you at some level desire to
| back to it. Whole idea of quitting smoking is then finding ways
| to stop yourself from turning it on again and this is true until
| you die. So do yourself a favor and avoid any substance that
| creates such light switches in your mind.
|
| Edit: Of course this is not the case for 100% of humans. Everyone
| is different. Some weak some strong in willpower, discipline,
| etc. But we can all agree that it is an addiction that sucks life
| out of you slowly. You wouldn't want to test your willpower your
| whole life against such a sneaky enemy.
| globular-toast wrote:
| This isn't the same for everyone and it nothing to do with
| willpower or discipline. My grandparents smoked for roughly 50
| years before my grandfather's health deteriorated to the extent
| he was diagnosed with emphysema and admitted to hospital. My
| grandmother immediately disposed of all cigarettes and lighters
| in the house. Neither of them ever smoked again.
|
| My grandfather lived for a few more years as his health
| declined further. About two years after his last cigarette he
| confided in me that not a day goes past where he doesn't crave
| a cigarette. But he never asked for one. He never caved.
|
| My grandmother had a fairly strong physical reaction to
| quitting initially. She was shocked when her doctor told her
| the shaking was due to physical withdrawal. She said she felt
| no different to a heroin addict. But after this physical shock
| subsided, that was it. She never craved a cigarette again.
| What's more, she became disgusted by the smell of cigarette
| smoke encountered in public. It was simply gone from her life.
|
| The difference here is in the psychologically addictive element
| of cigarettes. Both grandparents had the same physical
| addiction, but that's nothing. Anyone can overcome that. But
| the psychological element seemingly ranges from non-existent to
| unstoppable.
|
| I have experienced the psychologically addictive nature of
| cigarettes myself, even though I've never smoked. A friend
| bought some cheap disposable, nicotine-free, e-cigarettes and
| gave me one. Initially I was going to take it apart and see how
| it worked. But I tried it, of course. Then I tried it again.
| And again. There's something about it. Suck through the little
| pipe. Fill your lungs. See it glow. Exhale the vapour/smoke. My
| usage was exponential, until it ran out. I immediately
| considered buying another one. Then I caught myself. I had
| become addicted to this thing. It's that easy.
| blairbeckwith wrote:
| I _sort of_ agree with this, but I do know lots of people -
| myself to a certain extent - that have had success with mild
| re-programming, via Allen Carr 's Easy Way method[0]. I'm not
| the type to buy in to this kind of thing, but it did help me
| quit when nothing else did, and I never felt this sense of
| longing for something. Nobody else I've known that has had
| success with that method did either.
|
| I also think it's really unhelpful to talk about quitting
| smoking in such hopeless terms. If I was still a smoker, being
| told I was inevitably going to be craving cigarettes for the
| rest of my life might almost convince me not to quit at all.
|
| It doesn't have to be this way.
|
| [0] https://www.allencarr.com
| falcor84 wrote:
| >... and I never felt this sense of longing for something.
| Nobody else I've known that has had success with that method
| did either.
|
| Isn't that tautological?
| blairbeckwith wrote:
| Maybe? I'm not sure? It's a fairly throw away comment, I
| didn't send it to my editor to check for logical
| consistency or style advice.
| version_five wrote:
| I should mention (because I posted a hopeless sounding post
| below and didn't consider how it could come across), I quit
| smoking by taking up running. It was not a switch, I started
| running as exercise while a still smoked, without even
| considering quitting. Obviously the habits are at odds, but
| less than you'd think (I was in my early 30s, smoked about 15
| years).
|
| At some point, I had an established new hobby i enjoyed
| (running), i knew that smoking was holding me back, and i had
| a partial coping mechanism for dealing with craving and
| depression that comes with stopping.
|
| 10 years later, I still run, and I'm still happy with the
| tradeoff on my level of fitness, which is something that
| helps remind me of why I stopped when I have a craving.
|
| (I know a lot of people don't like running, but my takeaway I
| think is that it's better to focus on a new hobby / habit and
| establish new patterns while still smoking and then try and
| quit, vs just stopping and then trying to fill the void
| after). I hope this makes it sound less hopeless.
| josephcsible wrote:
| > I also think it's really unhelpful to talk about quitting
| smoking in such hopeless terms. If I was still a smoker,
| being told I was inevitably going to be craving cigarettes
| for the rest of my life might almost convince me not to quit
| at all.
|
| I think the post was directed at non-smokers, to scare them
| into not starting to smoke.
| whereis wrote:
| I smoked for ten years. Took Chantix for a week about fifteen
| years ago, which increased the frequency and intensity of my
| suicidal ideations. I then quit for good, with help from the
| Carr book, about a year thereafter.
|
| Quitting was horrible, but it got better. Now, the thought of
| smoking a cigarette is repulsive. Zero cravings, and the smell
| is highly offensive now.
|
| There's no light switch.
|
| YMMV.
| developer2 wrote:
| I'm very thankful for Varenecline (aka Chantix/Champix); it's
| what got me to quit after many years of pack-a-day. I didn't
| even set a quit date when I started. That drug took away
| every tiny ounce of satisfaction I ever got from smoking.
| Every cigarette became a cigarette that did not give me what
| a cigarette is expected to provide. The best way I can
| describe what happened to me is that I felt like a non-smoker
| trying to smoke, and all I got was the scent and flavour of
| licking an ashtray with none of the brain-altering effects.
|
| It's been over a year now, and I can't imagine going back.
| The _only_ trigger I have is seeing someone else smoke, and
| even then it has never been more than a fleeting thought that
| dissipates within seconds. I know exactly what 2-3 puffs
| would do to me, and I have no interest in going back. I 've
| never had the urge to buy a pack myself or to bum off
| someone. Smoking is now well into my past, and for that I am
| thankful.
|
| I got the well-known "nightmares" from Verenecline, but I
| actually really enjoyed them. Those dreams were some of the
| most vivid and intense I've ever had the joy to experience.
| In fact, I still have the last 50 1mg pills leftover that I
| didn't need to use, and I've only kept them because I know
| I'll eventually use them just to revisit that kind of dream
| state. :)
| 1_player wrote:
| Telling yourself there is no light switch in you, that you
| are stronger or better equipped than others, is a dangerous
| way to eventual relapse. Though for your own sake I really
| hope I am wrong.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| whereis wrote:
| Good sir, I regret to inform you that your assessment of my
| situation contains incorrect assertions based upon false
| premises, as I've made no such statement about my relative
| strength or equipment. I further regret to inform you that
| I've since been in the presence of smokers and cigarettes,
| through which no cravings arose.
|
| Sir, I further regret to inform you that I've accidentally
| inhaled tobacco in recent years when being passed a
| (REDACTED BASED ON FEDERAL CANNABIS LAWS) that, unknown to
| me, had tobacco mixed in. I coughed, was disgusted, and had
| zero cravings for tobacco thereafter.
|
| As such, there is no risk of relapse.
|
| I do believe that my short stint consuming Chantix may have
| permanently rewired my brain's reaction to cigarettes.
| [deleted]
| rabidrat wrote:
| I was a half-pack-a-day smoker for about 10 years, quit several
| times (once for several months), and the only thing that
| "worked" ultimately was realizing that I simply could never
| have another cigarette. After the physical cravings subsided, I
| still had frequent longings for that wonderfully ubiquitous way
| to 'fix' my internal itchiness/discomfort, but I had made such
| a commitment that I would have literal nightmares in which I
| smoked a cigarette--and then woke up in a panic, similar to
| dreams where I found out I'd accidentally killed someone and
| was debating whether to turn myself in or go on the lam.
|
| Then one evening about 10 years later I was at a festival
| wandering around and I had this desire in my brain for
| something, I didn't know what, and it was a few _hours_ later
| that I realized the thing I really wanted was a cigarette. It
| was that night that I changed my internal conception of myself
| from "ex-smoker" to "non-smoker". I don't have cravings any
| more for cigarettes, though there is a certain pang, I guess I
| would call it "nostalgia", and maybe it includes "envy" of
| people who can smoke a cigarette/cigar socially at an event and
| then not think about it again for years. Occasionally I will
| have accidental contact with nicotine (like buying a joint on
| vacation and getting a weird taste while smoking it and
| realizing half-way through that it's actually a spliff), and
| for a few days or a week afterward the light switch is again
| visible in my mind--though I'm thankfully not tempted to flip
| it. I wonder in those times whether a never-smoker who has a
| cigar once does have the same cravings in the days after, but
| doesn't recognize them as such.
|
| So at least for me, who admittedly was never a heavy smoker, it
| doesn't resonate that I will struggle with this addiction until
| I die. The only apparent lasting (mental) consequences are that
| I have to consciously refuse nicotine even when it would be a
| legitimately fun and interesting experience (like when I was
| offered some fancy snuff at a party which everyone else got to
| enjoy). And when I see someone smoking a cigarette I might get
| the nostalgia or envy I mentioned above. But when I get within
| smelling distance it's just foul and unappealing.
|
| Best wishes for anyone who's thinking of or trying to quit.
| unixhero wrote:
| I quit smoking, and it was very very hard. I don't agree with
| you that the addiction, need and nicotine + other triggers will
| remain with me until the end of time.
|
| Deprogramming is part of the process of quitting to smoke. I do
| now never want to smoke. It is not attractive to me as a way to
| relax or focus. I can stand in a tobacco section of an airport
| taxfree shop holding a 5 cartons in my hands with absolutely no
| desire to smoke. Likewise for being around other people who
| smoke. There is no creeping need, no urge.
|
| The deprogramming comes last. When it came around for me, it
| was gradual but it did definitely come. There is no way, not a
| chance in the world that I would somehow "relapse". It just is
| not interesting to me any more.
|
| EDIT: *On slaying the dragon*
|
| I want to add the timeframes, which could be useful as
| anecdotal data.
|
| It took me 9 months after my last cigarette to get rid of the
| "critical urges". Then after that it took another 12 months to
| get rid of the sweet itch I would get. After that period it was
| gone completely, and I mean absolutely completely. It was an
| exorcism. To anyone trying to quit smoking; know this, if you
| fight through it, it all does go away.
| dimmke wrote:
| I agree. I quit smoking back in 2016 and I don't think of
| myself as a smoker at all anymore. I sometimes have to remind
| myself I used to smoke.
| warent wrote:
| This is my experience as well, and I can still occasionally
| have a cigar or hookah on special occasions a couple times
| a year without any problems. Then again I only smoked about
| 1/3rd of a pack a day for about 3 years, so maybe the
| addiction levels also depend on the quantity and the length
| of time
| mavhc wrote:
| Why do people start smoking? Surely they know it's
| addictive, expensive, and bad for you
| [deleted]
| warent wrote:
| I started because I thought it made me look really cool.
| Plus menthols tasted great
| magneticnorth wrote:
| There's a pleasant mild buzz you get before your
| tolerance builds up.
| smitty1110 wrote:
| For me it was something I did with co-workers, and
| eventually at home, to de-stress. I was in a terrible
| place mentally, physically, and from a career perspective
| at the time, but it helped me feel like I wasn't going to
| suffocate from stress. I got my life together after that,
| but it so bad at the time that taking half an hour to
| smoke a cigar in the evening was a godsend.
| TchoBeer wrote:
| Alcohol is also addictive expensive and bad for you, and
| yet no one asks why anyone would drink alcohol
| defaultname wrote:
| Smoking is magnitudes more addictive than alcohol.
| Regardless, a lot of people _do_ ask why anyone would
| drink alcohol, given that it offers up an enormous array
| of detrimental health effects, the possibility of
| addiction and social troubles (DUI, violence, etc), and
| as a mental "holiday" altered state is an incredibly
| poor mechanism.
|
| Alcohol hangs around because it was accessible in earlier
| eras. There will come a time, I suspect in the very near
| future, when it will look ridiculous. Where having a
| `drink' will be an anachronism.
| nine_k wrote:
| To get physiologically addicted to alcohol, one has to
| drink heavily every day for a year or so. Few people,
| especially people with college education, do that. One
| can drink a glass of wine or a cocktail every weekend for
| life, and form no addiction at all. Such a person can go
| dry for weeks or months, without any adverse effects.
|
| Nicotine forms a physiological addiction much faster, and
| then the addict has to have a fix daily, several times.
| So the exposure to nicotine (which is mildly toxic in the
| quantities needed) and smoke (which is way more
| dangerous, and hits the lungs directly) is much more
| intense and sustained.
| namenotrequired wrote:
| The addiction likelihood of alcohol is much smaller.
| Nowhere near tobacco's ~100%
| [deleted]
| nyolfen wrote:
| it's a pleasant social activity when you're young; you
| have a ritual you perform together and share informal
| bonding time. smoking also gives a physical sense of
| relief once you're addicted to it and it gives you
| something to punctuate your day with, little benchmarks
| -- i will finish writing these emails so i can have a
| cigarette, etc.
|
| i smoked for 8 years then switched to vaping. i don't
| want to vape for the rest of my life, but there was an
| obvious difference in my fitness as soon as i quit (e.g.
| being able to run twice as far without stopping). i also
| smell better and my teeth are whiter. i'm glad that i
| switched, but it doesn't share the same ritual feeling
| when you can just pull a drag at any arbitrary time.
| sharpneli wrote:
| As a teenager one doesn't really think the things you
| mentioned. And it was cool.
|
| Source: Me. Smoked for 15 years. Stopped 6 years ago.
| watwut wrote:
| I stopped smoking over 10 years ago and still want to smoke
| regularly. Often in situations where there are no cigarettes
| available
| hayst4ck wrote:
| Have you had any major stress events in your life since
| quitting?
|
| I quit something myself and have felt much the same way, but
| I eventually had a string of very stressful events in my life
| that resulted in me seeking comfort in my old addiction.
| enneff wrote:
| A big part of my process for quitting was associating smoking
| with feeling disgusting and sick instead of feeling relaxed
| (which was never true anyway). For me it was more like
| reprogramming than deprogramming. But in broad strokes my
| experience was similar to yours.
| Jimmc414 wrote:
| Same here. I started in my teens and eventually quit in my
| thirties. It was so difficult I'm still surprised I was
| actually able to finally quit. Each time I walked into the
| office in the morning and at lunch I had to walk through
| the gauntlet of smokers and the mantra I repeated to myself
| to resist was, "That is what death smells like" It didn't
| take that long (months) before I found that familiar sweet
| smell very distasteful.
| [deleted]
| dominotw wrote:
| don't try drugs because you might just like it.
| agumonkey wrote:
| do you do the diversification trick ? smoking less and finding
| something else to absorb / massage your mind instead ? so you
| can find another switch to flick
| CraigJPerry wrote:
| Anecdata but that's not how it worked for me. I was "20 a day"
| (which means 30 a day but that wasn't socially acceptable to
| admit) for 4 years, 3.5 of which were spent trying to give up.
| The only 3 days i didn't smoke in that time were when i had a
| horribly bad septic throat due to some infection and physically
| couldn't smoke.
|
| Patches, lozenges, gums, the little ball tablet things, herbal
| cigs, e-cig - not the current vape kind, the early 2000s fake
| cig kind, will power exercises, social support group, pay into
| my piggy bank to smoke each cig ... you get the idea but
| nothing worked for me and i tried everything on the market.
|
| The problem wasn't just that i enjoyed smoking, i was actually
| born to be a smoker. I say that because other people, even most
| smokers, hate passive cig smoke to varying degrees but i always
| loved it from a young age, like really loved being near someone
| smoking, the smell of a cig being smoked just smelled great.
| Stale smoke didn't, i hated that like everyone else.
|
| And then i gave up, in one day, and my feeling has never
| changed since. You couldn't pay me to smoke, it'd be like
| paying someone to drink petrol, there's just no one would do
| that, it's an absurd idea.
|
| I don't mind being near smokers, i don't enjoy the smell
| anymore but I'm not repulsed either. I never consider them,
| it's just not a part of my identity. I'm not a smoker.
|
| The difference is subtle, is that i don't have to smoke
| anymore. When i was a smoker i had to smoke but today I don't.
|
| Allen Carr's Easyway book. I don't mind admitting i actually
| cried reading it. 3.5 years of misery solved painlessly with
| zero effort. I couldn't believe how easy it was to quit, after
| all the crap i had been through.
| OrbitRock wrote:
| Same here. I was a heavy smoker who struggled terribly to
| quit.
|
| But once I quit, well, your "pay me to drink petrol" analogy
| is accurate. Its been this way for about 10 years now. I just
| don't smoke, it's now repulsive to me, and there's almost no
| conceivable way for me to go back to it other than putting
| myself through the punishment of the early smoker again where
| it's just disgusting and doesn't feel good at all for several
| weeks.
| 1auralynn wrote:
| It was physically hard for a couple months while my brain
| reprogrammed to run without nicotine (i.e. I was pretty
| slow/stupid for a while) and once in a while I get an urge
| (maybe every couple months?), but it's not severe enough that
| I'm in any danger of ever smoking again. Quit over 10 yrs ago.
| Others mentioned Allen Carr/Easy Way method, and that was
| definitely a part of putting smoking in context as just a
| physical addiction.
|
| As long as you're able to separate yourself from the narrative
| of "I'm a smoker" and just let go the big dramatic story about
| how it's hard and you're going to fail then it's relatively
| easy to just deal with the physical symptoms of
| withdrawal/craving. I have a strict "no nicotine" policy and it
| makes it super easy because I never have to wrestle with
| decisions about whether I'm going to smoke/vape/whatever, the
| decision is already made.
| 1auralynn wrote:
| Oh and I was definitely smoking a pack a day+ for most of my
| 20's. Quit when I was 30.
| peoplefromibiza wrote:
| I think Hodgkinson in "How to be idle" nailed it.
|
| Smoking is one of the few things that changes your status by
| simply doing it: from being a John Doe you become a smoker.
|
| <<The smoker simultaneously injects and excuses idleness in his
| life with every cigarette>>
|
| <<Many idlers love to smoke. It gives us something to do when
| we're not doing anything.>>
|
| As a smoker who quit several times over the past 20 years and
| went from few cigarettes a week to 20 a day, back to 1 or 2 and
| then 20 again after the lockdown, I think the real threat is
| not the physical need, that is really easy to overcome, a few
| days and it's gone.
|
| It's the idea of losing your status and missing the habit of
| being that kind of person that is really, really hard to win.
|
| But it really sucks, we all know it, it's probably the most
| stupid thing a person can do, but we still fall for it.
| gnulinux wrote:
| I am absolutely not like this. I smoked a few times in high
| school >10 years ago, because I'm from a country basically
| everyone smokes. I didn't have the need or want to have
| another cigarette after high school because it wasn't as
| socially acceptable in communities I lived in. So I lost the
| interest. I never found it hard, nor ever found myself
| appealed to cigarettes after high school.
| [deleted]
| notdang wrote:
| I smoked for many years, then one day just quit smoking,
| without any reason.
|
| Did not smoke for more than 10 years, until a major disaster
| hit my life and I started to heavily smoke again.
|
| So yes, it seems that there is a switch.
| 9dev wrote:
| Oof. I'm in the same boat as your younger self, but two years
| in. I simply slept bad one night, thinking to myself that I
| love life way too much to actively work on a sooner death
| than necessary. Next day I quit, never looking back. I can
| drink without even thinking about it.
|
| I just hope disaster won't strike me, or hit me as heavy, as
| it did you.
|
| I hope things have turned to the better for you!
| mdoms wrote:
| I smoked for 10 years and quitting was difficult (but not THAT
| difficult - don't even get me started on the "it's harder than
| quitting heroin" nonsense). But now, 9 years since quitting, I
| don't even think about it anymore. It doesn't follow me around,
| I don't constantly fight the urge to smoke. I'm not "always" an
| addict. It's gone. It's in my past.
| qayxc wrote:
| > don't even get me started on the "it's harder than quitting
| heroin" nonsense)
|
| Out of curiosity: did you try both to know that for fact?
| augusto-moura wrote:
| It really depends, my old man smoked for like 20~ years and now
| he doesn't even remembers that he used to smoke like 1 box a
| day, only when someone else points it out
| Cyril_HN wrote:
| I gotta say, smoking has not been an addiction for me. After a
| year of smoking, I quit. I realised I literally didn't get
| enjoyment from it anymore. 6 years later, here I am, having
| tasted a cigar just to experience it and otherwise having never
| thought about tobacco or had urges.
|
| I don't think smoking is always addictive. But, given that it
| is for almost everyone, I'm utterly fascinated why it wasn't
| for me.
| isoprophlex wrote:
| I don't even smoke. Never have in any capacity. I purchased a
| single pack once as a teenager, and gave most of it away.
|
| But from the stray cigarettes bummed off friends in a drunken
| mood, or that time smoking hookah till i puked... I have that
| light switch now.
|
| You gave a VERY apt description of nicotine.
| johntfella wrote:
| I was lucky when I tried my first cigarette in that it just
| didn't do anything for me. Later I would try cigars on drunk
| evenings with friends. I enjoyed the smell just never really
| understood what it was suppose to do. Always wondered about
| that, maybe just like how covid hits some people really hard
| perhaps smoking is the same.
| alksjdalkj wrote:
| This is such a perfect description. I quit years ago but still
| whenever I see someone smoking I get a craving and when I'm
| stressed I find myself wishing for a cigarette. I've accepted
| that it's just something that'll be with me the rest of my
| life.
|
| Seriously, don't start smoking. It's a mistake that you really
| can't undo.
| 1_player wrote:
| I think the "light switch" paradigm works for any drug with
| very strong addiction potential. Don't even consider doing
| heroin or nicotine. Cocaine _very_ carefully if you really
| have to.
|
| Though to be honest nicotine is one of the hardest ones for
| the simple fact that it's so widespread. You can't really
| avoid it if your friends smoke or if it's still cool to smoke
| on TV (i.e. Mad Men). You don't go to a rehab or join a
| support group and call your sponsor whenever you feel you'd
| go for one, you'll be on your own. Thankfully it's getting
| easier and easier these days when it's not socially
| acceptable to smoke anymore, but still, quitting nicotine is
| one of the 3 hardest things you'll ever do in your life.
| hannofcart wrote:
| Just curious as to what the urge two 'hardest things' are.
| Could you elaborate?
| 1_player wrote:
| I have no idea. I'm just saying that quitting smoking
| will be one of those three. Probably not the hardest, but
| it's up there. FWIW it's the hardest thing I've done in
| my 34 years of age, it's taken me 10+ years to quit, I'm
| now 1.5 years nicotine free and I will have to be
| vigilant for the rest of my life.
| [deleted]
| mrtksn wrote:
| I quit a few years ago and never looked back, even made a pet
| app for quitting smoking as I was learning iOS development.
| Check it out, recently switched from UIKit to SwiftUI:
| https://apps.apple.com/app/id1459979131
|
| When I was quitting smoking I found 2 things useful:
|
| 1) Alan Carr's book, which in essence is designed to convince
| you that you actually don't enjoy smoking. I completely agree,
| when I first started it gave me the sensation, then I had to
| smoke every half an hour just to stay functional.
|
| 2) The cigarette prices. There was no way I can sustain smoking
| when first move to London. A pack of cigarettes was the same as
| my food budged.
|
| So, I just quit as a chain smoker. It was bad for a week but I
| kept observing myself and surely Alan Carr was right. I wasn't
| getting any boost from the nicotine, I was simply getting rid
| of the cravings for a brief period of time. In a month all the
| cravings disappears, in less than a year I had no desire to
| smoke even among people who are smoking. These days the
| cigarette smoke is simply something I try to avoid when
| exposed.
|
| This was not my first time to quit but on the previous
| occasions I had the wrong mental model. I was thinking of it as
| stopping doing something that I enjoy, like quitting
| chocolates. In less than a day it would have turned into
| torture.
|
| Just observe yourself to see if smoking actually gives you any
| pleasure or does smoking simply make you functional again. Then
| remember that non-smokers are functional without the cigarettes
| and their clothes and hands don't smell horrible.
|
| Notice that there's no boost once you get addicted, it's more
| like removing tight shoes when your smoke break comes. Would
| you wear tight shoes only to experience the pleasure of
| removing them?
|
| Everything gets so much better once you quit. You remember that
| the streets have a scent, the weather has scent. Just take note
| on yourself and there's no way going back to smoking, it's just
| a tremendously bad deal.
| version_five wrote:
| Agreed. The article mentions becoming a new person - for me,
| it's different, I'm still a smoker, I just don't smoke anymore.
| I quit 10 years ago, and I won't start again, but I still want
| to smoke every day.
|
| I rarely see this discussed when people talk about addiction.
| You can't un-ring the bell so to speak, and once you know you
| can do something you enjoy, you don't just forget about it. The
| cliche of the addict tied to the bed for a few weeks and then
| back to normal is not my experience at all. Acute withdrawal is
| easy compared to the hole that is left in your life. And I'm
| just talking about cigarettes, happily i never got involved
| with anything even more addictive.
| Cederfjard wrote:
| I'm not an expert, but from what I've read, tobacco
| (especially cigarettes) are up there with the most addictive
| substances. Like, competing with cocaine and heroin.
| Obviously since the mind-altering effects are much more
| subtle, and it's legal, it's less disruptive (at least until
| it gets you sick).
| AlexandrB wrote:
| I once had a very bad night and chain smoked 3-4 cigarettes.
| Since then I've never experienced the "light switch" you
| describe. The experience of smoking was not unpleasant, but not
| something I crave either. My sister seems to be the same way
| and smokes a few cigarettes once every few years when things
| are particularly stressful but never habitually.
|
| I wonder if there are physiological differences that account
| for this difference of experience.
| mason55 wrote:
| There does seem to be some kind of difference in people,
| which isn't surprising. Things like alcoholism also seem to
| have a genetic component.
|
| Anecdotally, my wife and I both quit smoking. Many years
| later she still has the desire every day whereas I go months
| without thinking about it (and if cigarettes weren't common
| in society I'd probably never think about them again, let
| alone have a desire to smoke one)
| YarickR2 wrote:
| Well, it's probably like this for some, and totally different
| for others. I smoked for ten+ years, a pack a day, and quit
| cold turkey in three days, and don't miss it any tiny little
| bit. Light switch was ripped off the wall, and the place it had
| been hanging (nice easily reachable convenient place) has been
| levelled off, painted clean , and is now perfectly empty
| Scarbutt wrote:
| _Smoking your first cigarette implants that light switch on
| your mind_
|
| I don't think that's true in general, at least not for me or
| many of my friends. We never got hooked. Please don't try
| though ;)
| TameAntelope wrote:
| My experience has been similar. I've smoked cigarettes
| probably ~12 times in my life, maybe up to 20 if you count
| cigars, but I've never felt like I need one or am in any way
| compelled to continue smoking on my own.
|
| Always, _always_ while drinking. Maybe that helps isolate the
| context?
| 1_player wrote:
| Sorry, I downvoted you, I hate when people think they're
| immune. They're one of the reason other people find
| themselves addicted to it. It's irresponsible and frankly
| immature.
|
| Smoking one or 100 cigarettes doesn't guarantee addiction,
| it's a Russian roulette. If you haven't heard BANG yet,
| doesn't mean there's no ammo in the chamber.
|
| You're not better or smarter than smokers. You just were
| more lucky.
| TameAntelope wrote:
| I guess my only thought here is: how can someone like me
| talk about my experience if I'm going to get shouted down
| by someone like you? I was trying to share an anecdote to
| explain a potentially interesting alternative view, but I
| feel now that if I don't toe the orthodoxy line, I'm not
| allowed to participate.
|
| I don't think I'm immune, but I am _certain_ I 'm not
| addicted to nicotine despite having smoked dozens of
| times, and I think that's a story worth sharing, even if
| you don't.
| 1_player wrote:
| Good for you.
|
| Sorry I don't have a better analogy, but it's like coming
| home from a tour in the military, and telling everybody
| "hey guys, war is perfectly safe, look at me I'm still
| alive!" -- I'm really happy for you, but others are going
| to listen to your "story", follow your example, and have
| drastically worse results.
|
| I think it's more interesting learning from those that
| went through hell, not the reckless lucky ones that
| managed to stay unscathed and think they're hot shit.
| Luck ain't a skill nor wisdom.
|
| I know these are strong words for the matter at hand, but
| there must be an ex smoker or three that know exactly
| what I'm talking about.
| yllorepap wrote:
| I am immune, it's easy. Just don't smoke. I've probably
| smoked hundreds of cigarettes with beer with friends. I'd
| just never have one on my own. I've never had a drink on
| my own either. It's obvious and easy.
| Seanambers wrote:
| 12 times is too little I would say. It's addictive, but its
| not heroin either.
|
| In the beginning it was something to do with friends at
| parties, then it became something to do while hanging out,
| and last came the addiction- ' I must have it'. All in all
| maybe a year from beginner to smoker.
|
| I Started when I was 14, quit at 24. Used snus/chewing
| tobacco for 3 years after that, then I quit. Used to have
| nightmares of relapsing. The fascinating thing is that the
| physical addiction is over very quickly(days) its the
| psychological addiction that breaks people(and me more
| times than I care to remember).
| wnesensohn wrote:
| Of course this is purely anecdotal, but I also smoke rarely
| when drinking, and only then. Some nights up to half a
| pack, sometimes just one or two, but only two to three
| times a year by now. Interestingly, I have no desire to
| smoke whatsoever when not drinking, not even a hint.
|
| Something in my brain seems to be wired such that I'm
| repelled by the taste when it's not in the "right" setting.
| Even if I wanted, when I only had a beer or two I get so
| sick from it that I have to stop almost immediately.
|
| It might be that I'm just super lucky, but I feel like
| there is more to it than that.
| lolc wrote:
| To this day, I can recall how a good one feels. The calm of a
| sunset. And I can remember how a bad one feels. The sore throat,
| cough, headache, numbness, sleeplessness, smell, and ennui of
| ignoring all that when preparing another one.
|
| When bad memories had been accumulating for a long while, I quit.
| And it was easy to recall the bad ones whenever I would think of
| lighting one again. So I didn't. Even if I knew it'd be a good
| one. Because there would be bad ones after.
|
| I won't forget the good ones either. And if I ever think I can
| just smoke the good ones, without smoking the bad ones after,
| then I'll start again.
| shoto_io wrote:
| I quit about a hundred times 20 yrs ago. I don't why, but after
| that I finally grabbed this damn book by Allen Carr. I would have
| never that it would work. But for me it did. Been smoke free ever
| since. Maybe just pure luck. Maybe it was the goddamn book.
| awakeasleep wrote:
| That book is a gentle and thorough introduction to an idea that
| I, as a smoker, had been hiding from or confused about.
|
| Pretty amazing.
| refulgentis wrote:
| Can you tell me more? I'm familiar with the book but it
| didn't click with me, and I've had a strange feeling the past
| couple months I'm missing a really good mental model for
| where it comes from (tl;dr psychiatrist started talking about
| it after a year of hinting, but they thought I was a step
| ahead of where I actually am)
| Jhsto wrote:
| Has anyone else tried writing under some arbitrary restrictions?
| In case you did not notice, the blog subtitle is 11 sentence
| essays. The post as well, unsurprisingly, is 11 sentences (... I
| guess, but it has a number of complicated ones).
| k__ wrote:
| Went into a wikipedia rabbit hole about restricted writing
| after reading about E-Prime.
|
| It's a very intriguing topic.
| chippy wrote:
| E-prime intrigues me too ;-)
|
| I just love E-Prime. I once, for a month, used social media
| where I would try to only use e-prime. I experienced a lot of
| difficulty, but I enjoyed the experience. For a week, I tried
| only speaking in e-prime and had to use a notepad to
| formulate my thoughts before speaking. I had more problems
| then, but also more fun explaining to people why.
| k__ wrote:
| Haha, sounds fun, yes.
|
| Do you have any good resources on how to get started?
| drdavid wrote:
| I have been putting my Linux notes online in the form of a
| blog. I use a plugin that estimates the time it takes to read
| each article. I try to keep them all under five minutes, unless
| I specifically set out to write a longer article.
|
| Inside that, I also try to not use more than 300 words without
| a new sub-heading, avoid too much passive voice, don't use too
| many overly long sentences, and don't use the same first word
| for more than two sentences in a row.
| becquerel wrote:
| I used to write short stories that didn't contain the letter
| 'e', inspired by George Perec's book La Disparition (cracking
| novel, highly recommended -- all the translations from French
| keep it up as well).
|
| It's challenging, obviously, but also forces you to employ very
| unusual and unique language.
| version_five wrote:
| A month ago I wrote what I would call a professional post on a
| social media / networking site. I had drafted it in a text
| editor first, and when I pasted it to post, I found there was a
| character limit I'd run afoul of and was forced to edit. It was
| actually very helpful to be forced to clarify and shorten what
| I'd written. I'd like to find a way to recreate the forced
| restriction (especially when discovered only after I thought
| I'd made it concise already).
| [deleted]
| bschne wrote:
| Agreed! As much as nuance can get lost in short posts, these
| limits have saved me from putting many an overly convoluted,
| rambling mess out there.
| chejazi wrote:
| Here are the steps I took that have helped me not smoke for the
| past 1.5yrs:
|
| 1. Switched from cigarettes (great taste) to an iqos (disgusting
| taste).
|
| 2. Threw away my iqos the day before I moved countries (back to
| my home country).
|
| 3. Arrived in new country around new years, set that new years
| resolution.
|
| 4. Spent first 1-2 months of new year living with my parents
| while I searched for housing.
|
| Aside from the resolution, each step wasn't particularly aimed at
| quitting _forever_. With time under my belt, I've since adopted a
| hardline "no cigarettes for life" mentality. It comes at the cost
| of being overly judgmental of others who are smoking. It keeps me
| in check though; otherwise, I sense that a relapse is far too
| easy.
| deesep wrote:
| I started smoking when i went to study in China. Someone gifted
| me an expensive brand of cigarette, and I kept it hidden in a
| drawer for two weeks as I didn't smoke. One very cold day with no
| where to go and nothing to do, I took the pack out and lit one
| stick. My did it have a lovely scent. The heat it created inside
| me was also soothing. It took me about a week and half to finish
| the pack of 21 cigs. I couldn't afford to buy the same brand
| often but i had become addicted to smoking. I struggled with
| anxiety back then and smoking calmed my nerves. Within 1 year I
| was smoking 2 packs a day.
|
| Smoking is frowned upon in Ghana, so upon my return there were
| few places I could smoke. One day while out and about I got
| really anxious about something and I needed a cig badly. I had to
| go some distance to get one, and even got a harder time finding a
| place to hide and smoke. I felt like I was committing the most
| heinous of crimes cause I had to take off my shirt to ensure the
| smell didn't stick on me. I didn't even enjoy the smoke because
| the quality wasn't that good, I smoked in a hurry and kept
| looking over my shoulder. I simply couldn't live like that
| anymore. So I quit after that day. The next time I tried to smoke
| again was 2 months later. I couldn't even finish a stick as it
| made me feel sick. I have disliked the smell of cigarettes ever
| since. And that was 7 years ago.
| standardUser wrote:
| I think the most important thing for people to realize about
| nicotine addiction (and all addiction) is that is does not work
| the same for everybody. Some people can smoke a few cigarettes
| every other weekend and not think about it otherwise, while
| others will never voluntarily go more than 45 minutes without a
| cigarette.
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