[HN Gopher] Dragon Go Server
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       Dragon Go Server
        
       Author : Tomte
       Score  : 63 points
       Date   : 2021-05-31 17:42 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.dragongoserver.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.dragongoserver.net)
        
       | 29athrowaway wrote:
       | If you are a beginner, try the Color Go Server (CGS).
       | https://www.colorgoserver.com/
       | 
       | CGS "enhances" Go by coloring the board, giving you a visual way
       | to estimate your territory. It also can count liberties so you
       | know how you are doing in a capture race or when a group is about
       | to die.
       | 
       | It's a great way to build an intuition around the game. It came
       | out just a couple of months ago.
       | 
       | If you want to practice puzzles, try https://blacktoplay.com/ or
       | https://badukpop.com/
        
       | HuShifang wrote:
       | Does anyone have recommendations for educational Go software,
       | akin to the various quasi-gamified chess learning and training
       | platforms emerging lately (PlayMagnus et al)? I'm not sure I have
       | the mental bandwidth right now to work through books
       | independently, but would love an app or other service I could
       | spend a free minute or two on here and there.
       | 
       | I'm aware of Baduk Pop (https://badukpop.com/) but haven't tried
       | it yet; there's also SmartGo (https://www.smartgo.com/) but it's
       | Windows/iOS (with a MacOS version in the works) and I'm mainly
       | using Linux and Android.
        
         | ameminator wrote:
         | I use Leela with the Lizzie frontend [0]. Leela is just the
         | "engine" and Lizzie, the gui, does make it shine. It does
         | pretty well on my end with a budget GPU and midrange CPU.
         | Strongly recommend playing against it and using it to analyze
         | games.
         | 
         | [0] https://github.com/featurecat/lizzie/releases
        
           | meiji163 wrote:
           | The strongest open source engine right now is KataGo
           | (https://github.com/lightvector/KataGo)
        
         | beermonster wrote:
         | Many Faces of Go by David Fotland is good for learning but
         | there are stronger opponent bots out there these days for
         | playing against thanks to community efforts such as Leela Zero
         | and KataGo.
         | 
         | However if you're going to play a bot it helps if it's
         | sufficiently strong even if it doesn't teach you, since you
         | won't end up copying it's potentially questionable moves.
        
         | mNovak wrote:
         | There's lots of sites hosting Go problems that rank you up into
         | harder problems as you progress [1,2]; though mostly life and
         | death type problems. Lately I've been seeing commentary on "The
         | Conquest of Go" (never played it), which looks more like
         | gamified full matches.
         | 
         | [1] blacktoplay.com [2] goproblems.com
        
       | ameminator wrote:
       | Man, this brings back memories. When I first learned I used the
       | playgo.to[0] tutorials and then followed up to play at the "No
       | Name Go Server" which had a consistent 20 people on at any one
       | time. (Now it's completely gone). Sadly, there has been a rapid
       | consolidation in the space - that server along with Yahoo, MSN
       | games have been deprecated. Even KGS [1], once the largest
       | English go server, has been losing players and is dying a slow
       | death. I moved to WINGS and Dragon later, but it was always so-
       | so.
       | 
       | Probably my favourite place to play now is either on Pandanet [2]
       | or the online go server [3] but it isn't quite the same, and (for
       | me) there isn't the same sense of community that I had, even on
       | MSN games.
       | 
       | [0] http://playgo.to/index-e.html
       | 
       | [1] https://www.gokgs.com
       | 
       | [2] https://pandanet-igs.com/communities/pandanet
       | 
       | [3] https://online-go.com
        
         | tomtomtom777 wrote:
         | KGS was a special place where I've spent many hours not just
         | playing but also kibitzing the pros (and TheCaptain).
         | 
         | This doesn't really happen in the same way on the currently
         | popular Go or Chess servers.
         | 
         | I am not sure whether its closed "Java Applet" form has been
         | its strength, its downlfall or both but it does seem unmatched
         | in its community.
        
           | ameminator wrote:
           | Oh wow! I used to love TheCaptain and his wacky, aggressive
           | style. Players like Carmel were always a pleasure to watch
           | too (since I wasn't 6D+ myself).
           | 
           | I do think the Java Applet (which used to give virus
           | warnings) and the fact that other go servers (like Tygem) had
           | stronger/more exciting games caused the decline. Maybe
           | splitting the userbase into "Rooms" was too much? I also
           | think the move to their "Shin KGS" web player came too slowly
           | and OGS ate Kiseido's lunch.
        
         | cambel wrote:
         | This takes me back. I lived on KGS for three years from when I
         | learned to 2K.
         | 
         | Now it always feels like I'm rolling the dice if I can get the
         | java app running on my Mac.
        
       | brundolf wrote:
       | This is not what I expected to see when I clicked the link
        
       | marclave wrote:
       | I remember first discovering the game of Go, after watching the
       | AlphaGo Documentary [1]. I highly recommend it, will definitely
       | be signing up for this, I usually play on mobile :)
       | 
       | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXuK6gekU1Y
        
         | beermonster wrote:
         | The Surrounding Game and the Alpha Go documentary on Netflix
         | are well worth a watch.
        
       | kroltan wrote:
       | > The Dragon Go Server (DGS) is a place where you can play turn-
       | based Go with other players from around the world. It functions
       | more or less the same way as playing Go via email would, but the
       | Dragon Go Server provides a graphical representation of the board
       | and handles things such as time limits, scoring and ratings.
       | 
       | https://www.dragongoserver.net/faq.php?read=t&cat=48#Entry49
        
       | thanhhaimai wrote:
       | I'd strongly recommend OGS if you would like to play Go online
       | (no affiliation,just a happy user). https://online-go.com/
       | 
       | r/baduk also has some good resource for learning more about Go :)
        
         | faitswulff wrote:
         | Is this the lichess of the Go world?
        
           | 613style wrote:
           | Sort of. OGS is the Lichess of the English-speaking world
           | certainly. There are several much larger servers if you speak
           | Korean/Japanese/Chinese, but they also have less in common
           | with Lichess.
        
             | Tomte wrote:
             | Back when I was playing, KGS was where everybody was
             | playing. What happened? Just normal competition?
        
               | 613style wrote:
               | KGS is still huge, but OGS has been consistently adding
               | feature after feature for years. At some point, my
               | impression is that most English people just realized it
               | has a nicer interface and better analysis and cheat-
               | detecting tools. The main downside is a lack of high-dan
               | players.
               | 
               | (I don't have data to back this up, just my experience as
               | a roughly 1-dan player who hangs out with a lot of U.S.
               | Go folks)
        
               | ameminator wrote:
               | In my experience, KGS is nowhere near as popular as it
               | used to be, sadly. Tournaments dried up, player base
               | dwindled and it's not the same
        
               | tinco wrote:
               | How do you cheat at Go? The only thing I can think of is
               | cheating by self-playing thus gaining illegitimate rank?
        
               | reblws wrote:
               | Main way is using an AI to tell you what the next best
               | move is.
        
               | beermonster wrote:
               | You could cheat in many ways.
               | 
               | One way might be to use a Go engine to analyse the best
               | moves for you as you play. Even for non online play this
               | is already a problem with Chess games and hidden
               | smartphones. Everyone has a 9d bot at their disposal
               | these days. And of course one could make use of cloud
               | TensorFlow if that's not enough.
               | 
               | There are ways of detecting cheating.
        
               | 613style wrote:
               | Just like with chess, when AI engines got very strong a
               | few years ago, people started using them to find
               | superhuman moves and win games. Now OGS will tell you how
               | similar your game's moves are to what a computer would
               | have played. Even professionals don't get above something
               | like 75-80%, but I've lost a dozen games to people
               | getting 95%+ on that metric.
        
               | ameminator wrote:
               | Yup, KGS is dying a slow death and was turned over to the
               | American Go Association to be managed. KGS Plus is free
               | now, which is a nice Plus, I suppose.
        
               | beermonster wrote:
               | KGS is still going but still Java client only?
               | 
               | These days there are lots of great alternatives :
               | 
               | OGS, Fox, Tygem, Panda Net to name but a few.
               | 
               | All of them have their pros and cons but OGS is great for
               | western players.
               | 
               | Also can highly recommend lifein19x19.com
        
               | apetresc wrote:
               | Small correction: KGS is no longer Java-client-only. The
               | protocol was opened up a few years ago and there are
               | several web-based clients now, most notably
               | https://shin.gokgs.com/
               | 
               | Also thank you for the lifein19x19.com shoutout :)
        
             | BerSerKer wrote:
             | Would you mind giving examples of these much larger
             | servers? Japanese, preferably...
        
               | loarabia wrote:
               | For Japanese go server, I'd suggest IGS aka PandaNet.
               | 
               | It's hard to say how much larger it is than OGS. OGS has
               | an enormous population of correspondence players but
               | generally smaller for live play maybe by 3x?
        
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       (page generated 2021-05-31 23:00 UTC)