[HN Gopher] WordTsar, a WordStar Clone
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WordTsar, a WordStar Clone
Author : rhabarba
Score : 146 points
Date : 2021-05-31 14:32 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (wordtsar.ca)
(TXT) w3m dump (wordtsar.ca)
| loloquwowndueo wrote:
| Robert j. Sawyer is also a prominent wordstar diehard who ought
| to be interested in this project :) he wrote an interesting
| rationale for his use of wordstar.
| https://www.sfwriter.com/wordstar.htm
|
| I wonder if learning proper use of vim motions would cover most
| of these use cases today :)
| Andrew_nenakhov wrote:
| This rationale has completely convinced me that we will never
| see any new ASOIAF books from George Martin: even _this_ very
| productive tool didn 't help him finish new book in over a
| _decade_.
| bbarnett wrote:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xR7XMkjDGw0
| capableweb wrote:
| It's almost like the tool doesn't make the master, the master
| make the master.
| dang wrote:
| Three previous HN threads on that article, listed here:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27346290
| eddieh wrote:
| Many authors use WordStar. Here is George R. R. Martin taking
| about WordStar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5REM-3nWHg
|
| I think, and I believe it has been suggested to Robert J.
| Sawyer, that Emacs keys are very similar to WordStar in the use
| of cords (or prefixed keystrokes). WordStar has ^Q as a prefix
| whereas Emacs has ^x, ^c, and ^h, etc.
|
| [edit] Add bit about Emacs
| alpaca128 wrote:
| Both Vim and Emacs can bind almost any(1) kind of input with
| the right configuration. Emacs has a lot of them in the
| default configuration, Vim just a bit using e.g. the _leader_
| key and Ctrl-W for window /split navigation.
|
| But in the end it's about efficient keyboard-focused controls
| and it seems for many WordStar was the first one that fit the
| bill.
|
| (1) except inputs consisting of multiple keys at once;
| terminals don't detect keyup/keydown events. Maybe Emacs can
| do it, I'm not familiar enough to know.
| ngcc_hk wrote:
| Can vim do document and book oriented content like
| paragraph flow etc ?
| rhabarba wrote:
| Emacs mostly uses key chords, not unlike WordStar, but its
| document setting capabilities are limited out of the box.
| dotancohen wrote:
| The site mentions UTF-8 support. Can anyone take a screenshot of
| this so I could see if it's worth compiling:
| shlvm, `vlm!
|
| I'd be interested in ODT support as well, but there seems to be
| no mention on the site so I'm assuming that LibreOffice
| compatibility is right out.
| geraldbrandt wrote:
| If you're on twitter, search for the tag #wordtsar. There's
| some screen shots there.
| rhabarba wrote:
| My timeline does not have any WordTsar users yet. Time to
| change that!
| geraldbrandt wrote:
| It's still in Alpha and coded by one guy (me). Give it time...
| dotancohen wrote:
| Then I'll just take the opportunity to say thank you. I'm
| personally very happy with VIM and Markdown, but I know a lot
| of people loved Wordstar and I fear for the day when VIM will
| be where Wordstar is now.
| protomyth wrote:
| Its funny, but I bet more people had the Wordstar keyboard
| shortcuts in muscle memory than actually used Wordstar.
| DrTung wrote:
| Long live WordStar and it's many brethren!
|
| I got addicted to it when coding Z80 assembler on CP/M in the
| late 70's and my life since then has been on a constant lookout
| for an equally good program in other OS's.
|
| In Linux and MacOS terminals there's Joe, a godsend. But since I
| use Qt a lot, of course the first thing I wrote was a Wordstar
| clone plugin for Qt Creator. Not possible to survive otherwise
| :-)
| geraldbrandt wrote:
| Where can I get that plugin?
| DrTung wrote:
| https://gitlab.com/tungware/geezeredit
| wila wrote:
| Earlier discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17549189
| rhabarba wrote:
| Missed that! Sorry.
| detaro wrote:
| Older than a year, so not a problem
| wila wrote:
| No problem at all.
|
| The only reason I mentioned the earlier discussion is because
| I thought it had some interesting comments.
| yc-kraln wrote:
| I came into this thread having misread the title as being a
| "Worldstar" clone--imagine my surprise at it being a text editor
| from the 70s!
| adamw2k wrote:
| Brings me back to the days of using Word Perfect with a keyboard
| overlay...
| mongol wrote:
| Are WordStar keyboard shortcuts resembling those commonly used
| today? Or are they their own heritage?
| rhabarba wrote:
| They predate those commonly used today.
| geraldbrandt wrote:
| http://wordstar.org/index.php/wsemu-documentation/wsemu-comm...
| 29athrowaway wrote:
| On WordPerfect 6.2 you could switch between text mode UI, a DOS
| GUI and a Windows GUI.
| dang wrote:
| As wila pointed out already, there was a previous thread about
| this project. (Reposts are fine on HN after a year, so this is
| not a problem - see the FAQ.) Maybe worth hauling out the
| comprehensive WordStar list though:
|
| _WordStar: A Writer 's Word Processor (1996)_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26370252 - March 2021 (92
| comments)
|
| _WordStar: A Writer's Word Processor_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20898950 - Sept 2019 (1
| comment)
|
| _WordTsar - A Wordstar clone_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17549189 - July 2018 (85
| comments, including "My dad, Seymour Rubinstein, created
| WordStar." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17557412)
|
| _WordStar: A writer's word processor_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13899238 - March 2017 (1
| comment)
|
| _WordStar: A Writer 's Word Processor (1996)_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13850693 - March 2017 (106
| comments)
|
| _What ever happened to Wordstar?_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12114185 - July 2016 (169
| comments)
|
| _WordStar: A Writer 's Word Processor (1996)_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8272952 - Sept 2014 (5
| comments)
|
| _George R.R. Martin Writes Everything In WordStar 4.0 On A DOS
| Machine_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7744952 - May
| 2014 (33 comments)
|
| _A Song of DOS and WordStar_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7732320 - May 2014 (13
| comments)
| vagrantJin wrote:
| Silly me.
|
| I read that as _Worldstar_
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| Lol I never even heard of worldstar XD
| keiferski wrote:
| Same here. Then I started thinking, what does a WorldStar
| alternative look like?
| geraldbrandt wrote:
| Sadly, that comes up in any search for Wordstar or WordTsar.
| oogetyboogety wrote:
| I thought it was a new worldstarhiphop star destined to take
| over the game
| eutropia wrote:
| I thought this was going to be a dashcams only version of
| WorldStar.
| neom wrote:
| "WordStar is a word processor application for microcomputers. It
| dominated the market in the early and mid-1980s, succeeding the
| market leader Electric Pencil. It was published by MicroPro
| International, originally written for the CP/M-80 operating
| system, and later written also for MS-DOS and other 16-bit PC
| OSes. Seymour I. Rubinstein was the principal owner of the
| company, and Rob Barnaby was the sole author of the early
| versions of the program. Starting with WordStar 4.0, the program
| was built on new code written principally by Peter Mierau."
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WordStar
| rhabarba wrote:
| Yes. And it still is less annoying to use than some of its
| successors. (Your mileage is intended to vary.)
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| Yeah like WordPerfect. I remember all those strips people
| used to stick on their keyboards to remember all the weird
| function key combinations :)
|
| Though the "submerged" screen (where you could see all the
| markup control codes, not sure what it was called in the
| English feature) was a handy feature I kinda miss in modern
| word processors.
| lproven wrote:
| It was called "reveal codes".
|
| http://wordperfect.helpmax.net/en/creating-and-managing-
| docu...
| gaius_baltar wrote:
| Seems nice and I will give it a try!
|
| Now a question: there is some obvious reason for using AGPL for a
| desktop GUI application (not a web app, a server, etc.)? AGPL
| would be my license to go in the later cases, so it would protect
| the project from being SaaSSed, but I could not find an advantage
| for graphical desktop apps yet.
| geraldbrandt wrote:
| I honestly can't remember why I chose the AGPL.
| wizzwizz4 wrote:
| Lots of desktop programs are being turned into "VNC in your
| browser"-type things. Maybe that was it?
| rhabarba wrote:
| I would guess that it's because of the Qt libraries, but this
| is just an assumption.
| detaro wrote:
| Using Qt does not require you to use (A)GPL, and it had that
| license before it used Qt.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| Desktop GUI apps can be SaaSed by tying them to a virtual
| desktop.
|
| Or it could be using AGPL components.
| skyfaller wrote:
| Why host the project on SourceForge? Just force of habit? Other
| code forges don't look better enough to justify the effort of
| moving? Or are there actively good things about SourceForge these
| days?
| rob74 wrote:
| Are you asking the author(s) of a project that emulates a
| decades-old word processor so that people don't have to learn
| to use a newer word processor to learn to use a newer code
| hosting platform? I guess this project is the very embodiment
| of "force of habit"...
| bdcravens wrote:
| MS-DOS 1.25 (1983) is on Github
|
| https://github.com/microsoft/MS-DOS
| schaefer wrote:
| Ah, but is git on dos 1.25?
|
| Asking for a friend.
| geraldbrandt wrote:
| Sourceforge is one of the few left that support Mercurial,
| which I use.
| chrisseaton wrote:
| Isn't it easier to switch your version control than keep
| trying to run a project on SourceForge? I know I find it
| almost impossible to interact with a project hosted there.
| rhabarba wrote:
| It has become much better over the years.
| user-the-name wrote:
| Heptapod is pretty great for mercurial hosting these days.
| gnud wrote:
| sr.ht supports Mercurial as well. And fits well with the old-
| school vibe.
|
| But feel free to use SourceForge - fine by me. I just wish SF
| would hide unused stuff from the project page. The new UI is
| a ton better, but as an example, this project still has
| 'wiki' and 'git' links, even though they're both empty.
| IshKebab wrote:
| There are a fair number of projects from the old days that just
| never bothered to move. I don't think anyone chooses to host
| new projects there
| 29athrowaway wrote:
| Was not SourceForge bundling malware with open source project
| releases?
|
| That was the moment when I decided to drop SourceForge forever.
| geraldbrandt wrote:
| That changed long ago.
| tssva wrote:
| SourceForge was sold to a new owner a few years ago. All of
| that type of thing ended with the new ownership.
| user-the-name wrote:
| You don't come back from that kind of thing that easily.
|
| Even if the current owner doesn't do that, who's to say who
| the owner will be tomorrow?
| dmd wrote:
| By that logic you can't trust anything anywhere.
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| True but it is a point, and one that has lead to the
| emergence of decentralised open source initiatives that
| can never be taken over by a hostile entity.
|
| Maybe it's time for a code 'matrix' too. Especially now
| that github was taken over by Microsoft, prompting many
| projects to move away.
|
| I don't think Microsoft is a bad caretaker but something
| with zero commercial interest at heart is always better
| IMO.
| thomasfl wrote:
| +1 for the funny, glorious and mighty name.
| geraldbrandt wrote:
| LOL. Thanks.
| xgulfie wrote:
| Someone tell George RR Martin
| 7thaccount wrote:
| My thoughts exactly.
| rhabarba wrote:
| WordTsar won't run on DOS!
| eddieh wrote:
| That's a shame. Many of the WordStar holdouts actually like
| their writing machine to be some old reliable computer
| without modern distractions. It isn't just the software, it
| is the whole experience. It runs one program at a time, no
| internet, now notifications, just reliable typing on what's
| probably a mechanical keyboard that has exactly the right
| feel.
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| I wish there was a console version of this. Linux really lacks a
| good writing app for console.
|
| All the text editors don't do on-the-fly word-wrapping (while not
| inserting a real line ending). Makes sense for a text editor
| that's normally used for config files and programming, but I
| would really want something more like a word processor.
|
| There's wordgrinder but it's not great for this, it has a
| proprietary format so I have to export to .txt every time.
| Something like wordstar that would just save in text format woudl
| be amazing.
|
| It's just very strange that something that is 100% natural on the
| web (text word-wrapping works perfectly in every textbox on the
| web!!) is so difficult to achieve on the console.
|
| I heard maybe vim or emacs can do it but I'm not a fan of those
| tbh. I'd love something like nano...
| gooseyard wrote:
| The venerable joe editor (https://joe-editor.sourceforge.io) is
| apparently very comfortable for Wordstar users. I used it for a
| few years in college before I could afford enough RAM to run
| emacs and although I never actually used Wordstar myself and
| cant compare it that way, I really liked using joe and can
| still remember a lot of the keybindings 20+ years later.
| tangus wrote:
| It lacks word wrapping tho.
| zabzonk wrote:
| WordStar was a really good programming editor, if you put into
| text mode. I wrote a lot of C and assembler code using it back in
| the 1980s.
|
| And it was a good word processor - much easier to get to grips
| with than WordPerfect, IMHO.
| geraldbrandt wrote:
| WordTsar doesn't do non-document mode... though I'm thinking
| about it.
| tssva wrote:
| To give an opposite opinion form the same time period. I found
| WordStar much more difficult to come to grips with than
| WordPerfect. WordPerfect 4.2 with a XT layout keyboard is by
| far my favorite word processor experience to date.
| zabzonk wrote:
| I could never get to grips with WP's use of function keys. In
| fact, I hate all software that uses function keys.
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| I love function keys but I hated the combos that WP used.
| There were just too many.
| xbar wrote:
| F7 to save.
|
| Seriously, if I could still use WordPerfect 4.2 today, I
| would. I would put up with 5.1 if necessary.
| lproven wrote:
| The Linux version is freeware now:
|
| https://xwp8users.com/
| app4soft wrote:
| > _The Linux version is freeware now_
|
| I can't see such statement on linked site; instead its
| clarifies to use "legitimate copy":
|
| > _This site provides information designed to assist an
| owner of a legitimate copy of a version of WordPerfect,
| who desires to use it on a current Linux distro, in doing
| so._
|
| BTW, Here is Reddit thread[0] & screenshot[1] posted in
| comments.
|
| [0] https://old.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/cgw9f5/using_
| wordper...
|
| [1] https://i.imgur.com/mhZ4Ahm.png
| rhabarba wrote:
| I also dig the XT layout. I never tried my Model F XT with
| WordTsar though. I probably should!
| [deleted]
| bolangi wrote:
| XyWrite was the bees knees of that era, IMO. But far be it
| from me to make it a religious debate :-)
| toast0 wrote:
| I use JOE as my programming (and general purpose) editor, which
| is modeled after WordStar in a lot of ways. Once, I happened
| upon a WordStar installation and was able to use it just fine,
| because I already knew the concepts (I think the command prefix
| isn't ^K though, so it felt a bit off?)
| geraldbrandt wrote:
| Joe (or jstar) is my go to console editor.
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| Does it still save bak files everywhere though? I used it
| for a while and it littered folders everywhere with them as
| it doesn't clean them up. I tried turning it off but an
| update came through that changed something and turned it
| back on, and then I came across nano which felt nicer :)
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