[HN Gopher] A Dive into Ray Tracing Performance on the Apple M1
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       A Dive into Ray Tracing Performance on the Apple M1
        
       Author : tempodox
       Score  : 47 points
       Date   : 2021-05-31 05:39 UTC (17 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.willusher.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.willusher.io)
        
       | ksec wrote:
       | For CineBench R23 Score. ( In case anyone will read it the wrong
       | way )
       | 
       | Intel(r) Core(tm) i7-1165G7 by default is an 15W TDP CPU,
       | especially true if you are spreading load across all cores. ( 28W
       | if you are on single Core TurboBoost ) It is on 10nm SuperFin (
       | equivalent to ~TSMC 7nm ), Quad Core and 8 Thread, Not sure about
       | its AVX 512 clock speed limitation I dont have time to dig that
       | up.
       | 
       | The Apple M1 is ~ 24W TDP, 8 Core 8 Thread, with 4 being High
       | Efficiency Core on TSMC 5nm.
       | 
       | You are looking at a ~60% higher TDP number. The results are
       | still impressive, but needs these additional context before it is
       | consumed.
       | 
       | I will also not be surprised if A15 has a major GPU uArch change.
       | ( Something similar to IMG B-Series )
        
         | hajile wrote:
         | M1 is barely 20-25w at the wall. Actual chip peak TDP is more
         | like 14-18w.
         | 
         | Intel chips have much higher peak and sustained actual power
         | usage than their TDP indicates. At the wall, those "15w"
         | systems are actually much closer to 40-60w on sustained loads.
        
           | dogma1138 wrote:
           | It's very hard to estimate the true power consumption of
           | laptops since they are all primarily fed from the battery not
           | the charger. There are almost no passthroughs anymore even in
           | "gaming" laptops. Only a handful of DTR laptops still employ
           | a passthrough with a high wattage PSU or dual PSU set up and
           | I honestly haven't seen those for the last 2-3 gens...
           | 
           | The last one I've seen that had it was a 8700K with dual
           | 1080's DRT monstrosity.
        
             | qayxc wrote:
             | > It's very hard to estimate the true power consumption of
             | laptops since they are all primarily fed from the battery
             | not the charger.
             | 
             | That's news to me. I try to keep up to date with laptops,
             | and all the reviewers have pretty accurate power
             | consumption measurements. Even just using the internal
             | reporting reveals quite a few details [1].
             | 
             | Even a "12W" TDP 11th gen Intel CPU can draw up to 50W in
             | turbo mode [2].
             | 
             | The 11th gen "45W" laptop CPUs have a PL2 power draw of
             | 135W [3], which, thermals and VRMs permitting, can be held
             | indefinitely according to the specs (which is what makes
             | Intel's whole TDP-rating useless indeed).
             | 
             | So yes, it's very hard indeed to estimate newer laptop's
             | power consumption, but for entirely different reasons. It's
             | primarily the cooling and OEM's choice of how to implement
             | the very loosely defined (Intel!-) specs that define power
             | draw. If you have excellent cooling, there's nothing to
             | stop an 11800H from drawing 135W for minutes at a time...
             | (which can be measured, both internally and from the wall
             | no problem).
             | 
             | AMD CPUs on the other hand mostly adhere to the published
             | power rating (give or take 20% - again, cooling permitting
             | and configurable by the OEM).
             | 
             | [1] random example: https://bit.ly/34xLKpM
             | 
             | [2] https://www.anandtech.com/show/16084/intel-tiger-lake-
             | review...
             | 
             | [3] https://www.itworldcanada.com/article/eight-core-intel-
             | tiger...
        
       | Scene_Cast2 wrote:
       | Side note. Apple is great at waiting on tech until it's ready,
       | and then making sure everyone knows about it (through a combo of
       | a product launch and marketing).
       | 
       | Retina displays, multitouch on touchscreens, and now ARM
       | processors. The notable thing is that Apple makes the enabling
       | incremental change (to a point where the product is good enough
       | for mass market) seem like a step function.
        
       | mhh__ wrote:
       | I didn't realize Intel had shipped a mobile chip with AVX-512.
       | 
       | Also, Intel for the love of God sort out your product names, use
       | a proper system rather than /dev/random Lake
        
         | Tuna-Fish wrote:
         | The code names are not the problem. Basically all companies use
         | engineering code names so that engineers can talk about
         | unreleased products without accidentally revealing things. And
         | since you should not be able to divine anything about the
         | products from them, picking random geographical features is
         | _just fine_.
         | 
         | The problem is that their actual product naming is such a
         | massive mess that people prefer to learn the code names instead
         | of trying to figure out what, exactly, a i7-1165G7 is and how
         | it relates to, say, a i5-11400H?
        
           | Zevis wrote:
           | I had no idea they'd gone back to 4 numbers for some of their
           | CPUs. What does G7 even mean?
        
             | acqq wrote:
             | Only four? i5-11400H is a real name too:
             | 
             | https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/213805
             | /...
        
               | masklinn wrote:
               | Yes but that's the normal pattern: the historical naming
               | was XYYY where X was the generation and YYY was the SKU.
               | With the 10th generation, this became XXYYY, continuing
               | the pattern.
        
             | masklinn wrote:
             | Graphics Level 7. Basically a relative indication of the
             | iGPU capabilities.
        
           | zokier wrote:
           | The problem is Intels incredible tendency to cut, slice, and
           | dice their market into tiny slivers of segments. For example
           | Comet Lake has 80ish SKUs listed on its wiki page:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet_Lake_(microprocessor)
           | 
           | Combine this with the fact that they have completely
           | different processor families for different segments
           | concurrent with these, there are going to be hundreds of SKUs
           | in total on the market at any point.
           | 
           | I don't know if there is any sort of naming system that can
           | salvage that to make any intuitive sense. The actual product
           | names mostly serve to function as keys to search ARK.
        
           | masklinn wrote:
           | > The problem is that their actual product naming is such a
           | massive mess that people prefer to learn the code names
           | instead of trying to figure out what
           | 
           | They actually have a guide explaining all the bits. It
           | doesn't really matter since most of it is arbitrary and
           | marketing (including uarch rebadging same as the GPU
           | vendors), so even within a generation it tends to tell you
           | very little in and of itself.
        
           | mhh__ wrote:
           | That too, but if the microarchitectures had a numeric
           | identity for example (even in parallel to the xyz lake name)
           | the route to a better numerical ID for CPU's would be easier.
        
             | masklinn wrote:
             | That's originally what the generation was.
             | 
             | Then it became inconvenient so generations and uarchs got
             | disconnected (because marketing, and then more marketing as
             | they had to introduce uarch refreshes because they couldn't
             | move through their plans)
        
       | smoldesu wrote:
       | For anyone looking to find real-time raytracing examples, this is
       | not it. The author seems to be investigating static renders like
       | you would do in Blender, offloading it to the CPU instead of the
       | GPU. Unsurprisingly, the M1 does not support hardware-accelerated
       | ray tracing. However, almost any CPU made in the last 10 years is
       | capable of software-accelerated ray tracing with software like
       | Pixar's Renderman and the open-source Cycles engine.
        
         | Cyberdog wrote:
         | > software-accelerated ray tracing
         | 
         | Is this a particular term/concept, or do you just mean non-
         | hardware-accelerated ray tracing?
         | 
         | If the former, what does it mean for something to be "software-
         | accelerated?"
         | 
         | If the latter, I apologize if this comes off as nit-picking.
        
           | smoldesu wrote:
           | When I say software-accelerated, I'm referring to anything
           | that doesn't offload any rendering processes to the GPU. It's
           | not necessarily a turn of phrase, but I think most people
           | familiar with the topic will grok that software rendering =
           | no GPU offload.
           | 
           | Though I do understand the desire to be pedantic, because
           | ISAs like this and their SIMD instructions can kinda blur the
           | lines between what constitutes as "hardware accelerated".
           | That's why I try to avoid it as much as possible for the sake
           | of simplicity.
        
             | tralarpa wrote:
             | I think parent was wondering what the word "accelated" in
             | "software-accelerated" could mean. Faster than what?
             | (faster doing the calculations by hand? :)
        
       | zokier wrote:
       | I think it is neat demonstration how weird the CPU performance
       | has been in recent past that on one hand M1 has very impressive
       | performance, but on the other hand 7 year old CPU puts out
       | competitive numbers. It is also demonstration how much
       | performance we have left behind as we have adopted laptops as the
       | mainstream computing platform/
        
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